WEBVTT - Sitcom Deaths and Disappearances | Reviving a Mobit 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:06.920 It was you, Kristen. I watched a lot of TV 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:20.000 growing up. When I was nine, I memorized the TV guide. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.080 When my brother Lawrence told Missus Barnett across the street 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.200 that he had a younger brother, she didn't believe him. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:32.600 You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. That's how little 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:37.760 I went outside. I learned early on that the television 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:43.760 universe is divided into hour long dramas I Trusted You, 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:51.400 and half hour sitcoms. Everybody on dramas, death is a 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.240 fact of life. Consider that, over the course of the 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.440 six seasons of The Sopranos, ninety two characters died. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.880 You shot him in his pat naked no chance to run, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:03.120 I swear to god. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:10.960 It's even grizzlier on Game of Thrones, where characters have 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.960 a seventy chance of getting killed off. 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:15.800 Reds. 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:24.160 But today we're talking about something far more mysterious, something 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.880 that's haunted me ever since my childhood basement dwelling days, 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:35.440 something that just shouldn't happen. I'm Morocca, and this is mobituaries, 0:01:36.560 --> 0:02:00.840 this mobid sitcom depths and disappearances. I brought in an 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.680 expert to help me investigate the phenomenon of sitcom deaths 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:05.800 and disappearances. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.880 I'm Alan Sepenwall, chief TV critic for Rolling Stone. I've 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.679 been writing about TV since the nineties when there were 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.400 like five channels, and now there's you know, five hundred 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.440 different scripted shows on TV right now. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:19.840 I'm not the first person to say, but there's too 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:20.440 much TV. 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.639 There really is, you know, and it's good to hear, 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:25.760 like people who are not TV critics say that. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.600 And also, the Western world's fertility rates are really low, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.639 so there's just not enough people to. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:31.800 Watch these shows. 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.240 You know, who's going to watch Longmeyer. I don't have 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.600 time to do it. And I'm sure it's a fine show, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:39.000 but there's so many other. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.399 Things, so many it's like when you hear about how 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.519 big the universe actually is and it starts to hurt. 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:45.480 Oh my god. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.320 And like the Netflix interface alone, it's like you you 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.320 could spend like the length of a movie looking for 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:51.880 a movie. 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:56.359 Our topic here is sitcom depths and disappearances, one of 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.200 the great mysteries. So I actually died once on TV. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.360 It was not on a sitcom. It was on an 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.440 hour long drama on Law and Order, Criminal Intent. I 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.280 played a gossip column. It's named T K. Richmond. They 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.360 even gave me a fedora to wear. I've never ever 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.600 watched this, I promise you. I swear I've never seen this, 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.280 and I thought I would watch it with an esteemed 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.600 television critic for the first time. So, Alen, if you 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:20.799 join me for this, here we go. 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:22.240 Okay, let's do it. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.320 Oh God, that hat doesn't really work on me. Elliott, Elliott, 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.639 calm down. There's nothing that says these pictures have to 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:32.079 run in. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:33.880 My column blackmail photos. 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.960 We're in a car now. It's not a bribe, it's 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.560 an opportunity. This is going to be the hot new place. 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.720 This the pictures go away, right right? 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:45.920 I do have a little integrity. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.280 Did you just blow up? The hell was that? 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:51.560 I just blew up? 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:52.160 Oh? 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.000 Do they show my charred remains? 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:56.000 Oh no? 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.520 Oh my hat? 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:00.480 The hat survives. That's good. 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:06.880 What do you think did I pass as a New 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.160 York Post gossip reporter? 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.200 I mean your look was very sweet, smell of success. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:16.320 Well, thank you. I love any Tony Curtis comparison. Okay, 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.920 So lots of people die in our long dramas. I think, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.880 actually that's right, that's the main ingredient. Somebody has to 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:23.560 die in every law and order, and there have been 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.920 three thousand of them. But for someone to die or 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.800 disappear on a sitcom, it's much different. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.880 Why Because sitcom's, in theory, are meant to be a 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.400 little bit lighter, more relatable, more relaxing. It's You're going 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.920 to spend some happy time laughing at, you know, someone 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.240 tripping over the couch, or forgetting to pick up the 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.679 groceries or something relatively simple. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:45.839 Death is not that. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.360 In other words, sitcom audiences don't want characters to die, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.719 which is why in some rare cases the characters have 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:59.600 just disappeared without any explanation, a syndrome given its own name. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:07.480 Cunningham syndrome. There was Chuck Cunningham, the third Cunningham child 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.880 on Happy Days, the eldest Cunningham child, who was in 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.279 the show for two seasons and then was never heard 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:14.520 from or mentioned again. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.560 And who was Chuck Cunningham? You said the third child, 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:21.960 But I'm glad you corrected yourself and said the eldest, 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:23.640 because he was the first child. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.719 Not that Howard and Marian acted like he was particularly special. 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.040 I mean he lived in the apartment above the garage 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.880 before Fonsie did. He was usually when you saw him 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.359 either carrying a basketball or eating food, or possibly both. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.200 I got to go to basketball practice. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.000 He was not really a prominent part of the show. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.720 And then a couple of years in the producers decided 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.039 we don't need another Cunningham and we want Fonzie to 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.160 live above the garage, and so Chuck disappeared and never 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:49.599 came back. 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.599 You're right, the basketball and the sand, which were his 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.880 chief accessories. I mean, that's the thing we remember from him, Suck. 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.239 I've told you not to dribble in the house, all right, dad. 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:04.400 Do we remember anything about him really? 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:05.080 Well? 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.440 I think we remember that he disappeared. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.599 Yes, But when that's the most memorable thing about you, 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.160 that sort of speaks to why they were willing to 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:13.400 get rid of him in the first place. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:15.720 Good point, good, But well, do you think the fix 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.600 was in for him? Did it feel like vultures were 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.599 circling over him during those first two seasons? 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:21.920 Well, I mean he started getting less and less to do, 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.080 and that was a show that was obviously going through 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.400 a lot of behind the scenes transformations over those first 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.960 couple of years. Is that right, Yeah, Phonzie's a relatively 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.880 minor character when you start watching the show on Fox. 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.600 They wouldn't even allow him to wear the black leather 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.279 jacket when he was on the motorcycle because the network 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.479 feared that he looked too much like a hoodlum and 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.880 the audience wouldn't want to watch that. And once they 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.640 decided to beef up Phonsie's role, and you have shifted 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.160 from a single campsit come shot on film to a 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:52.880 multicam shot in front of an audience. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:54.520 Bye Bye, Chuck. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.480 So I talked to Henry Winkler and I asked him 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.320 did Chuck have to disappear? And here's what he said. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.440 They did not have room in the writing for the 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:10.760 older brother because the fawns became the older brother. Everything 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.480 that you would go to the older brother for, Richie 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.200 went to the fawns for Yeah. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.160 I mean, if you had to choose between who you 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.840 were going to get advice from about girls, about cars, 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.680 about being cool, about being anything, why would you not 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:23.840 go to Arthur Fonzarelli. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.320 All right, now, listen up girl, one time, one time 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.760 movie line, right up, pick kissed the funds for a buck? 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.240 That's a bog in any brite right exactly, And so 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.760 Gary Marshall, the creator of Happy Days, was obviously great 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.320 at what he did. So he makes the calculation that 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.200 if this character disappears, the audience will be fine with it, 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:43.960 something that I asked Henry about. 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.280 Only years later did I ask Gary what happened? 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.160 And he explained to me, Hey, what did he say? 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.920 It was the older brother, and I didn't know how 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.480 to write for him, and then did write for you, 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.320 and we had to let him go, and then it 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.000 was a terrible well thing. He went upstairs, he never 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:02.880 came down. 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.160 And Gary understood that the audience would accept that. 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.520 Gary understood television was so well or well enough to 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:14.480 know that if you've got this problem and you write 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.560 him out, you don't make a big deal out of 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:23.000 getting rid of the character. It will be like slime. 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.640 You can poke a hole in this slime and it 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.760 closes in on itself and becomes whole again. 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.640 So Alan was Henry right about this. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.520 Mostly obviously, people still brought it up. 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.560 They bring it up all the time, and especially whenever 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.360 in the later seasons Howard and Marion would make a 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.640 reference to their two children. In the very last episode 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.080 of the series, Jony and Chachi get married, and Howard 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.400 makes a toast, you know, talking about all the happy 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:50.000 days that he. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.719 And Marion have had, and he says, but we've had 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.480 the joy of raising two wonderful kids. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.400 And I was, you know, nerdy enough even at that 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.400 age to say what about Chuck? 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.079 I mean, harsh Henry told me he gets asked all 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:05.280 the time about Chuck's fate. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.720 Oh a million times, Hey, what happened to Chuck? Nobody 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.400 is really interested, and they just love the question, you know, 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.120 I'm so sorry, but it's true. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.079 Yeah, no, no one actually cares about Chuck. It's literally 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.280 just the fact that they pretended he didn't exist. I 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.199 think if they'd said Chuck moved away, Chuck goes to Seattle. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.400 Exactly, he could have just become an off stage character 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:29.760 that they refer to occasionally. 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.240 Yeah, I mean, you know, not all families are so 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.800 tight knit that they're always around and always need each 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.280 other's business. You know, even if Chuck did' have a 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.040 falling out, maybe he just had a full life of 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.880 his own far far away from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.160 So for Phonsie to live, Chuck had to die. Yes, 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:47.959 the sitcom universe is even harsher than the Law and 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:49.480 Order Criminal Intent universe. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:50.679 Yeah, I mean, it's. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.920 Just like because he's not even dead, he's he's. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.600 No longer in this reality. It's sad. 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.160 Well, Alan, As I'm sure you know, the Internet is 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.880 replete with theories about what happened to Chuck, so of 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:04.600 course I had to run some of these by Henry 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:09.240 Confirmer Denies. See these widely circulated theories among fans about 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.079 what happened to Chuck Cunningham. One he died in Vietnam. No, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.880 still in his bedroom. Yes, this is a serious one. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.280 Was gay and disowned by his family because it was 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:20.199 the nineteen fifties. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.400 Ooh no, I don't think he would have been disowned 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.400 by the Cunninghams. I think that Missus C for sure 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:30.480 would have embraced him. 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.960 Would mister C really been okay with that? 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.240 Mister C was very busy with hammers. Remember he owned 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.040 a hardware store that was like always on the brink. 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.959 Right right, okay, So he was otherwise occupied, So Missus 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.320 C would have handled this, okay. Gary Marshall always told 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.559 people that Chuck Cunningham got a basketball scholarship in Mongolia. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.480 That sounds really right. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.280 And the sad truth is, I think we're all used 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.400 to sort of pretending that someone who has existed doesn't 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:01.200 exist anymore. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.520 Yep, yeah, I've done that. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.959 We go to a very dark place, but it's true. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.800 We've all had an older relative tell us, don't talk 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.880 about that person. That person doesn't exist anymore. 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.520 Yes, there's these family feuds and suddenly we don't talk 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.160 about this on to anymore. Yeah, I mean, Chuck could 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:24.040 have done something really awful. The Cunninghams are a very decent, 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.079 you know, apple pie kind of family. 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:27.800 Chuck could have been a deviant. 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.720 Oh, by the way, that last episode of Joni and 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.520 Chochi getting married that led to the spinoff. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.040 No, no, no, the spinoff was in the middle of the show. 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.880 It was it really Yes, they left Happy Days for 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.560 like maybe half a year, maybe more to go do 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.760 Joni Loves Chochi, which is the worst theme song in 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:44.280 the history of television. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:52.280 Right, I actually like Joni Loves Chauci. I always thought 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:54.000 that it would be fun if there was yet another 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.640 spinoff where Jonie moves to the shore and opens a 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.600 little store where she sells knick knacks and bobbles, and 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:01.120 it would be. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.360 Called Jony loves Choch Keys. 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:10.960 God, I'm so glad. I love that you got it, No, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:12.199 whatever gets it. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.160 Oh my god. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.880 And now we take a moment to remember another dearly 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:33.720 departed sitcom character, Judy Winslow, who spent four seasons on 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:40.040 the nineteen nineties hit sitcom Family Matters. Family Matters told 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.080 a story of a working class family in Chicago with 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.000 three kids. Judy was the youngest. 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.160 Hi, this is Jamie Foxworth and most people might know 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.560 me as Judy Winslow from the television show Family Matters. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.959 Jamie Foxworth started playing Judy when she was just a 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.400 middle schooler. Judy was the sassy little girl with a 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.520 quick wit and shark one liners what I'm. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.760 Cold and I'm cracked dolessly. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.080 But over time Jamie started to notice that Judy wasn't 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.640 being given as much sass to throw around. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.880 I was getting less and less screen time, and it 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.360 was always like Judy goes up to her room, Like 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.000 I would literally be down, you know, in a living 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.400 room with everybody else, and I would say, okay, guys, 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.000 and the next thing you know, Judy's right up the steps. 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.640 Just like the fawns in Happy days, Family Matters had 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.679 found its star a pesky next door neighbor in suspenders 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.160 and thick, grimmed glasses. 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.360 Either the le at your service. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.960 That's right, Berkle, because his unstoppable rise would mean the 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:53.280 sad decline of Judy Winslow. Yes, you did, Erkle. It 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.400 was during the taping of what would be her final 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.680 episode that Jamie noticed people acting strangely. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.720 I do remember just the cast just coming up to 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.600 me and like giving me so much love and hugs 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.520 and affection, and I was like, what's going on here? 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.559 You guys like it? Why is everybody acting so weird? 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.240 She remembers that Reginald Belle Johnson, who played her father 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.680 on the show, was particularly emotional. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.400 He was literally on his knees and he was in tears, 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.600 and I just remember looking at him like, dude, what 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:22.040 is going on? 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.600 On February twenty sixth, nineteen ninety three, as fans, well, 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.800 remember Grandma Winslow got married. Judy was a flower girl. 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.600 She walked down the aisle and was never seen again. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.360 To this day, everyone asked me the same question, what 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:41.960 happened to you? 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.360 How could they just leave the daughter off? 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.960 And I'm like, hey, you gotta ask those producers. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:47.000 I don't know. 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.560 I think they thought that people would just forget, and 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:51.760 nobody forgot. 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.760 The character of Judy was survived by her older brother 0:14:55.840 --> 0:15:09.400 and sister, her mother and father. Okay, as weird as 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.920 a character disappearing into the ether may be, there's another 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:18.440 occurrence which is equally disorienting. An actor who suddenly disappears 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.560 replaced by another actor in the same role. This first 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:27.160 famously happened on the nineteen sixties hit fantasy sitcom Bewitched, when, 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:31.360 after five successful seasons, the show's leading man underwent a 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.800 casting change, giving rise to what would become known in 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:43.080 TV lore as the two Darren's. I caught up with 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.280 Lila Garrett, who wrote for Bewitched and experienced the ripples 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.320 of the Darren effect firsthand. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.360 Hi, I'm Lyla Garrett, and I'm a writer and a 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.000 producer and a director. Some people think of me as 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.880 a legend. I don't enjoy thinking of myself that way. 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.640 Well, Llilah, I would say that you're a legend. 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.000 I know, I know it's a heavy burden, but I'm 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:07.000 willing to carry it. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.920 Lylah wrote for top scripted shows like Get Smart and 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.520 All in the Family and the Lucy Show at a 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.160 time when women were rarely seen in a writer's room. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.120 She's got two Emmys and a Writer's Guild Award to 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.320 show for it, But out of the more than thirty 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.760 shows she's written for, it's not hard for her to 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:26.800 name her favorite. 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.920 There is no show that I have ever done that 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.720 I enjoyed more than Bewitched, and I enjoyed every minute 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:33.960 of it. 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.600 Bewitched was a big hit in the nineteen sixties into 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.560 the nineteen seventies. It was about a young, happy couple 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.320 housewife Samantha played by Elizabeth Montgomery and at executive husband 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:50.280 Darren originally played by Dick Yorke. The only problem on. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.800 Their honeymoon night, she tells him that there's something that 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:54.000 she's kept secret from him. 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:55.600 She is a witch. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.640 And rather than be excited about the possibility of having 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.400 this utiful wife who can also perform magic and do 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.920 anything for him, Darren Stevens decides that he you know, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.040 he's a man, gosh darn it, and he does not 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.600 want his wife doing magic. And the eternal struggle of 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.399 the show is all these magical hijunks happening in the background. 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.600 Much to Darren's frustration. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.760 Which means that Darren Stephens's character is essential, Yes. 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.840 Because he is always exasperated by what happens. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:25.159 Come on here and face me. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.000 Yes, you've been sticking that magic nose of yours where 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:28.560 it doesn't belong. 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.399 Again, don't quite to deny it, all right, I won't. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.600 Come on, Sam, don't make me drag it out of you. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:35.800 Just you admit it. 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.399 Dick York was really good. Yeah, he's very good to me. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:41.840 He's sort of Jim Carrey good. 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.200 Yes, he's very expressive, very just sort of a memorable 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.080 vocal comic, even to extent physical comic. 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.679 He had a great face. Yeah, I mean real plastic. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.680 I would say a rubber face. Rubber Yeah, it could 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:56.679 go anywhere, you know. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.600 Every expression of his was wonderful and clear, and he's funny. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.600 His responses to everything that was happening around him drove 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.880 a lot of comedy on the show. Samantha, despite having 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.520 the magic powers, she's the straight man on the show. 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.200 He's the one having the fun because he can't believe 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:14.360 what's going on around him. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.960 What little favor I asked you to do? And what 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:17.640 do you do? 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.399 You wegle that beak of yours and really caused problem. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.760 He was spectacular, and he was a spectacular man. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.160 As great as he was in the role, Dick Yorke 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.040 had a secret. Well. 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.600 We first noticed the problems with Dick Yorke really in 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.919 the second year. Suddenly he couldn't make it for the 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.800 show that we were writing. And at first it just 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.560 seemed as though he may have had the flu and 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.000 so on. But when it became a habit, we recognized 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.439 that there was a real problem there, and ultimately we 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.040 found out what that problem was. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.880 York had sustained a serious back injury on the set 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.080 of the nineteen fifty nine Western. They came to Cordura. 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.760 Acting became harder and harder for him, and then practically 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.800 intolerable some scenes and bewitched. He could only do sitting 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.720 or lying down. He took medication to manage the pain 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:20.840 and ultimately became dependent. Dick York started missing shows so 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.160 often the writers had to create what they called non 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:28.679 Darren shows. On these episodes, the writers would render Darren 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.520 invisible for most of the half hour, often via witchcraft. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.200 With Darren out of the picture, they leaned on Samantha's 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.000 colorful relatives to fill out the episode. 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.359 There was Uncle Arthur, who was played by Paul in 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.480 one of the World's Greatest comics. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.600 One morning I shot a line in my pajamas, Now 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.719 what he was doing in my jogas? And then there 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.160 was in Dora played by Agnes Moorehead. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.920 Duwood is already a practical. 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:02.760 Joe who was Samantha's mischievous and kind of playfully vicious mother. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.280 But there was only so much slack the secondary characters 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.240 could pick up. Eventually, dick York was hospitalized and left 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.240 the show. So dick Yorke was gone. But what to 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.600 do about the character of Darren if. 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.800 She can't divorce him? The whole structure of the show 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.040 is based on this marriage, So what are you gonna do? 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.480 They really can't get divorced because even years later, when 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.320 they wanted to make Mary Tyler Morris character Mary Richards 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.399 a divorced woman, that alone was scandalous. 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.879 Yeah, and you're certainly not going to divorce a beloved 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.280 couple in the middle of the show. 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.359 We couldn't possibly kill off the first Darren because he 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.679 was part of the concept of the show. 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:40.840 This was a love affair. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.840 And then someone who looked a lot like Dick York 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:49.280 was cast as Darren and that was Dick's Sargeant. 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.520 So Dick Sergeant replaces Dick York and they just acted 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.160 like it was the same Darn the whole time. 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.600 But let's face it, you never forget your first Darren. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:04.080 This one wasn't the same, especially his connection to Samantha. 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:09.840 Honey, your beautiful, sweet, clever, adorable and I love you madly. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.359 It works well, it doesn't work on me, but I 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:15.840 love you. 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.879 Did they lack chemistry? Elizabeth Montgomery with the second Darren 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.440 with Dick Sergeant, Yes. 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:23.800