Speaker 1: John F. Kennedy Jr. Was the son of John F. Kennedy,
Speaker 1: President of the United States. Tragically, jfk Jr. Was killed
Speaker 1: in a plane crash in Or was he Yes, he was,
Speaker 1: of course he was. But what if he wasn't? What
Speaker 1: if he were about to re emerge as the vice
Speaker 1: president of Donald Trump, who, by the way, is still
Speaker 1: the president. Sounds crazy, it is. In fact, it's one
Speaker 1: of the wilder conspiracies I've heard in my seven years
Speaker 1: covering Trump rallies. You're probably familiar with my daily show
Speaker 1: segments Jordan Clapper Fingers the Pulse Emmy nominated twice, lost twice,
Speaker 1: where I chat with Trump supporters at rallies. We are
Speaker 1: not a call. It's an American ideal that we treat
Speaker 1: women with respect. You gotta give me the back of
Speaker 1: that show one more time. That's too much fun. Trump,
Speaker 1: that bitch. We don't even see the irony of it.
Speaker 1: And if you're into conspiracy theories, then there's nothing that
Speaker 1: comes close to a Trump rally. What's on your back?
Speaker 1: Q flag? One of those crazy people are fine and
Speaker 1: commulaw are not legitimate. What's a cute whole thing that
Speaker 1: Trump would be reinstated at President never looked. If you
Speaker 1: go online, there's a whole list of pedophile symbols. Really, yes,
Speaker 1: it's like Woodstock, except everyone there thinks Jimmy Hendrix is
Speaker 1: a holograph. Normally, when one of these conspiracy theories comes up,
Speaker 1: I have to respond then moved past it because we're
Speaker 1: shooting a piece for TV and we have to say
Speaker 1: somewhat focused. But this is a podcast, we don't have
Speaker 1: to stay focused at all. So I'm finally diving into
Speaker 1: some of the most incredible conspiracy theories that have been
Speaker 1: pitched to me at Trump Rallies by America's most imaginative minds.
Speaker 1: This is Jordan Clapper Fingers, the Conspiracy and All new
Speaker 1: limited series podcast from the Daily Show. So, folks, come
Speaker 1: on down from your grassy knolls and let's dig in.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about John F. Kennedy Jr. But to help
Speaker 1: me do that, I want to bring in our first guest,
Speaker 1: Will Summer Wills, of politics reporter for The Daily Beast.
Speaker 1: He's got a book coming out in February called Trust,
Speaker 1: The Plan, The Rise of Q and On and the
Speaker 1: Conspiracy that unhinged America. Well, welcome to Jordan clapper fingers
Speaker 1: the conspiracy. I'm excited to have you on. You are
Speaker 1: here to help me walk through an understand what is
Speaker 1: going on in this world of John F. Kennedy Jr.
Speaker 1: And I will say this. I I go out on
Speaker 1: the road and I start hearing people talking about JFK Jr.
Speaker 1: And initially I'm thinking, you know, they're talking about JFK.
Speaker 1: There's a long history of conspiracies with JFK. And then
Speaker 1: I'm putting together that as JFK Jr. And then I
Speaker 1: start to see signs up. I start to see bumper
Speaker 1: stickers that have him as vice presidential Kennedy to Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: And then a month or so back, I go to
Speaker 1: a rally in the Midwest and I'm hearing sweet old
Speaker 1: grandmother's talk about John F. Kennedy Jr. And I can't
Speaker 1: make head or tails of it? Can you? Can? You
Speaker 1: set out a little bit of this began? What do
Speaker 1: we need to know? Sure? So, I mean, this is
Speaker 1: really bizarre. As you noted, I mean the origins of
Speaker 1: this are within Q and on Um. Of course, there
Speaker 1: was the this figure Q who was giving these anonymous clues.
Speaker 1: And then at one point in teen Q sort of
Speaker 1: vanished for a month on the forums where the clues
Speaker 1: came out, and then someone named Are shows up and
Speaker 1: starts saying, you know, all of this is really about
Speaker 1: JFK Jr. And so that's kind of where the where
Speaker 1: it begins. And eventually Q comes back and kind of
Speaker 1: says like this JFK JUNI yourself is garbage. You know
Speaker 1: what have You've been tricking all my people? Um, But
Speaker 1: the JFK Junior stuff really starts there with this idea
Speaker 1: that JFK Jr. Faked his death to take on the
Speaker 1: deep state and help Donald Trump sort of bring about
Speaker 1: this sort of Q and on utopia. There's a conspiracy
Speaker 1: inside the conspiracy, it's a it's a it's a conspiracy
Speaker 1: to ducan right now exactly. It's sort of a splinter faction,
Speaker 1: and you get this situation where, like the kind of
Speaker 1: the mainline Q and On people will often be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Like, you know, I believe all this
Speaker 1: Pizza Gate stuff. I believe this about Hillary Clinton, but
Speaker 1: these JFK Junior people are embarrassing us. They just believe
Speaker 1: totally stupid stuff. That's the dynamic you want there, and
Speaker 1: we're like, oh my god, can we just go back
Speaker 1: to serious things like talking about how the Democrats drink
Speaker 1: baby's blood and all this JFK Junior stuff. We're losing credibility.
Speaker 1: People were losing credibility. Put your tidfoil heads back on
Speaker 1: and let's march. Yeah. I mean basically they're saying, you know,
Speaker 1: these JFK Junior people are almost like a government meant
Speaker 1: to embarrass Q and on. But really this belief has
Speaker 1: in JFK Jr has persisted ever since. So so what
Speaker 1: was ours intention in this situation? Like initially that JFK
Speaker 1: Jr one is alive, so perhaps he faked his death.
Speaker 1: And two he's aligning himself with Donald Trump. It feels
Speaker 1: like there's four steps there that I'm even a hard
Speaker 1: time connecting why JFK Jr. And let's start with why
Speaker 1: he's alive and why that should matter? Sure, so the
Speaker 1: arc that is presented by R, and I want to
Speaker 1: point out here that R is the letter after Q,
Speaker 1: and so that's sort of the explanation for them, is
Speaker 1: it or is it will? Your mainstream elitist alphabet says
Speaker 1: it's the letter after Q. But I have I only
Speaker 1: if you're moving forward through time, But that's a whole
Speaker 1: another podcast exactly. So, So the the sort of the
Speaker 1: story that's laid out is that John F. Kennedy, the
Speaker 1: father is killed by the deep State, you know, in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. JFK Jr. Sees this and says, oh, man,
Speaker 1: the Deep State might come for me, and I want
Speaker 1: to get revenge on them for murdering my father. And
Speaker 1: so for years he builds up this relationship with Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: you know, because they were both sort of these New
Speaker 1: York socialite figures. There are pictures of them together, and
Speaker 1: so this is used to suggest that they were like
Speaker 1: best buddies. Then in this storyline, JFK Jr. Fax his
Speaker 1: death in this plane crash to sort of go undercover
Speaker 1: and sort of lay the groundwork for the Q and
Speaker 1: On journey and eventually emerge. For a while they thought
Speaker 1: he was going to replace Mike Pence in on the
Speaker 1: ticket and that he would sort of kind of helped
Speaker 1: Trump and sort of get this final revenge on the
Speaker 1: Deep State. So in this world they see JFK Jr.
Speaker 1: Is faking his own death to exist undercover and wait
Speaker 1: for the right time, still maintaining a relationship with Donald
Speaker 1: Trump throughout all of this, or did or did Donald
Speaker 1: Trump just come about and become sort of an avatar
Speaker 1: for JFK Jr's ascension. Yeah, that that's a great question.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of it is a little contradictory
Speaker 1: and not super thought out. Uh you know that might
Speaker 1: be surprise you right now. But but basically, the the
Speaker 1: idea is that, you know, back in the nineties or
Speaker 1: the eighties, they kind of cut this deal and they said,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump said, man, this stuff is really messed up,
Speaker 1: you know. And then and JFK Jr. Said tell me
Speaker 1: about it. You know, they shot my dad, and so
Speaker 1: then they sort of teamed up and JFK Jr. Winning
Speaker 1: to hide it. Tell me about it. They shot my dad.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yeah, you're right, this is messed up. Let
Speaker 1: me let me run for president a few decades from
Speaker 1: now and make this thing happen. You're helping me connect
Speaker 1: that circle. If it's a circle. What I'm confused about.
Speaker 1: I go out there, JFK. Fame Slee not a Republican
Speaker 1: um John F. Kennedy Jr. At least from my perspective,
Speaker 1: New York elite, not political, but somebody who is a
Speaker 1: magazine magnate and Seinfeld character uh doesn't exactly match up
Speaker 1: as the type of person that this often far right
Speaker 1: group would would align themselves with. What why Why did
Speaker 1: they see this potential in in somebody who's so outside
Speaker 1: of the norm, you know, I think that's a great question.
Speaker 1: And what is the emotional residence of JFK Jr. Why
Speaker 1: is why is the JFK Jr they fixate on rather
Speaker 1: than another celebrity who died in the nineties. So the
Speaker 1: I think the answer to it is that when we
Speaker 1: think about the Q and on believer, and I think
Speaker 1: in particularly the people who go for the JFK Junior stuff,
Speaker 1: they're usually baby boomers, and I think the JFK assassination
Speaker 1: had a huge sort of emotional impact on them. And
Speaker 1: I think also JFK Jr. Was sort of seeing those
Speaker 1: this very like prominent baby boomer um, sort of an
Speaker 1: avatar of his generation, and so that way, I think
Speaker 1: there is this kind of this very emotional connection to
Speaker 1: him in a way that there that there wouldn't be
Speaker 1: with another celebrity. I think also the idea of JFK
Speaker 1: as like the last good Democrat is something that has
Speaker 1: persisted among Republicans even before Q and On this idea
Speaker 1: of kind of this popular martyred president UM and Oh,
Speaker 1: isn't it terrible that you know LBJ in the in
Speaker 1: the sixties took being a democrat into such an awful direction.
Speaker 1: So I think JFK himself still has a lot of
Speaker 1: residents with Republicans and Q and On believers. So I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of kind of like emotions tied
Speaker 1: up in all that. When you look back on JFK conspiracies,
Speaker 1: does it seem quaint? Does it seems sort of like
Speaker 1: the initial modern conspiracy theory that Americans have sort of
Speaker 1: built a mythos around. I mean, I think obviously we've
Speaker 1: had conspiracy theories throughout American history, but the Kennedy assassination
Speaker 1: is such a sort of an epical one that I
Speaker 1: think gets a lot of people into conspiracy theories, and
Speaker 1: it is certainly, I think the biggest and the richest
Speaker 1: one to dive into in modern history. It also sort
Speaker 1: of brings everything full circle incorporating Kennedy, Q and On.
Speaker 1: Is this um it's sort of a super conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: or a mega conspiracy theory that where you can sort
Speaker 1: of get whatever you want out of it, and so
Speaker 1: we see a lot of Kennedy conspiracy theorists drawn into it.
Speaker 1: I talked to a guy who was a really big
Speaker 1: Q and On leader, and he had for decades been
Speaker 1: just like a f K crank. I mean, he was
Speaker 1: going to all these conventions stuff like that, and then
Speaker 1: Q and On arrives and he says, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I can sort of incorporate my Kennedy beliefs into Q
Speaker 1: and On and sort of broad in my worldview and
Speaker 1: and see more of the world explained to me in
Speaker 1: that way. Um So I do think that's an aspect
Speaker 1: of it as well. It's it's interesting. I think what
Speaker 1: a lot of people miss is just how fun conspiracies are.
Speaker 1: They They are engaging, especially if you're on a computer.
Speaker 1: One of the most fun things you can do is
Speaker 1: go down that rabbit hole and and also come away
Speaker 1: with something that empowers you because you feel like you
Speaker 1: know something somebody else doesn't. I I did a job
Speaker 1: down in Dallas a decade ago, and I was walking
Speaker 1: through the Grassy Knoll multiple times right there there in
Speaker 1: daily plaza, and people would approach you and they would
Speaker 1: tell you things that you should know and shouldn't know,
Speaker 1: And so there was it was like a cottage industry
Speaker 1: for conspiracy theorists to give small little tours, take you
Speaker 1: to places that they tell you what what happened and
Speaker 1: what they're not telling you. And it's easy to get
Speaker 1: wrapped up in that. And you see the people starting
Speaker 1: to develop um uh you know, not only mindsets out
Speaker 1: of it, but it gives them importance. It gives them
Speaker 1: in some cases a job, but it makes them important
Speaker 1: in that little place. And I start to see that
Speaker 1: pop up at some of these Trump rallies that I
Speaker 1: go to, seeing people who now own part of these
Speaker 1: little conspiracies and they become many celebrities at these rallies
Speaker 1: that we see and looking at this JFK Jr. Coming
Speaker 1: back as part of UH, there's been discussions of his
Speaker 1: reappearance and there's been groups, one group called Negative forty
Speaker 1: eight who has staged events waiting for his um return.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about Negative forty eight? Sure? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Negative forty eight is a group that is is
Speaker 1: very convinced that JFK, not only JFK Jr, but but
Speaker 1: Kennedy at JFK himself UH and all sorts of sort
Speaker 1: of a bevy of other beloved deceased celebrities are are.
Speaker 1: It's not that they're gonna come back to life, but
Speaker 1: they've sort of been in in inclusion, they've been in hiding,
Speaker 1: and that they're gonna come back and and sort of
Speaker 1: usher in this Q and on world. The reason they're
Speaker 1: called negative forty eight is because they this is kind
Speaker 1: of hard to explain, dude, to someone who's that really
Speaker 1: deeven it, but essentially they believe in this thing called
Speaker 1: jim Atria where they assign numerical values to letters and
Speaker 1: then they derive meaning from that A equals one, be
Speaker 1: equals too, and so on. But essentially they would say,
Speaker 1: like Jordan Klepper twenty trust the plan twenty uh make
Speaker 1: America great Again twenty five and they just sort of
Speaker 1: speak in this language that doesn't really make sense to
Speaker 1: anyone outside of it, but they they see importance in
Speaker 1: these numbers and in these these coincidences, and so from
Speaker 1: there they essentially kind of whipped themselves up into believing
Speaker 1: these things like JFK Jr. Is coming back. I found
Speaker 1: out what Jamatria was real quick. One of the rallies
Speaker 1: I went to when a woman kind of walked me
Speaker 1: through this. She brought out a Gematria calculator and started
Speaker 1: typing in my name, typing in Trump's name, and connecting
Speaker 1: all sorts of numbers. It was it was wild, It
Speaker 1: was real fun. You can kind of make anything makes sense.
Speaker 1: They're type it in the calculator. You get these numbers.
Speaker 1: And so Michael Jackson's last concert was this is it
Speaker 1: comes to you know what that means? Do you? I
Speaker 1: don't know what that means. So one thirteen means not true.
Speaker 1: So Michael Jackson that wasn't his last concert, and he's
Speaker 1: a lie. It's not necessarily conspiratorial thing, although it's used
Speaker 1: in that sense. It's correct me if I'm wrong. It's
Speaker 1: essentially a mathematical way of turning letters into numbers, and
Speaker 1: religions have been using this for centuries just to try
Speaker 1: to find and try to derive meeting, trying to look
Speaker 1: deeper into biblical texts and what have you. And I
Speaker 1: thought that was a key component when I talked to
Speaker 1: this woman, because the way she talked about Gematrium, it
Speaker 1: was beyond this conspiracy. It's fun. I have power because
Speaker 1: I have knowledge. It was also I'm serving a biblical character.
Speaker 1: There's religion attached to this, and I think that's where
Speaker 1: the real danger comes here, where you have people who
Speaker 1: are serving UH, serving religion and serving God through this fun,
Speaker 1: little weird game that they play, and then deciding that
Speaker 1: Aaliyah is going to appear alongside Michael Jackson and perhaps
Speaker 1: UH and jfk Jr. All at once Obama clarify who's
Speaker 1: still alive. J jfk Jr. Still alive. Jfk Jr. Still alive.
Speaker 1: So I think jfk Jr. Is gonna try and expose
Speaker 1: globalist because they killed his father. We're talking about Tupac's
Speaker 1: coming back, Robin Williams is coming back Aliyah. As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: sort of pick your favorite dead celebrity, and so what
Speaker 1: happened was these folks descended on Dallas where they thought
Speaker 1: there was going to be sort of the dead Celebrities parade,
Speaker 1: and they're milling around and they're seeing like a homeless
Speaker 1: guy and they're like, I think that's Robin Williams. And
Speaker 1: then everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's a Robin Williams and
Speaker 1: so on, and a lot of these guys. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. These guys are super up on like
Speaker 1: Tupac for example, and there there's I think that's Tupac.
Speaker 1: You all these guys, I think that's Biggie. Uh And
Speaker 1: and it's sort of this. You can see they're sort
Speaker 1: of going into this world where like nothing bad ever happens.
Speaker 1: No no one ever dies of a drug overdose or
Speaker 1: a suicide. Um. The other thing I would add is
Speaker 1: that they think a lot of dead celebrities were murdered,
Speaker 1: uh or went into hiding, like JFK Jr. Faked their
Speaker 1: deaths because they were gonna blow the lid off the cabal.
Speaker 1: So like the the late dj of Echi, you know,
Speaker 1: he faked his death. All these kind of people, uh,
Speaker 1: just you know, Whitney Houston. But they're all coming back
Speaker 1: at this big moment. And you can see these people
Speaker 1: who have just particularly this when they were kind of
Speaker 1: million around Dallas for months, just the amount of their
Speaker 1: own lives and their own like hearts that they've invested
Speaker 1: into into it. You know, they're just you know, headed
Speaker 1: for a brick wall when eventually they realized none of
Speaker 1: it's happening. It's just predominantly white people who live in
Speaker 1: a bubble walking around Dallas thinking they see Tupac everywhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really that's to fuck. Do you really
Speaker 1: know who Tupac is? And you think that guy's tu
Speaker 1: fuck and biggie they are. These are diametrically opposed on
Speaker 1: many levels. But I bet you're seeing it as the
Speaker 1: same person who's going into a subway. Well, they would
Speaker 1: do these live streams where they would say, like, didn't
Speaker 1: y'all see that dead rapper? Like they wouldn't know any names,
Speaker 1: you know, and they kind of have this game and
Speaker 1: telephone to figure it out. I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: a conspiracist or anything like that, but I just watched
Speaker 1: the movie last week with Robin Williams in it. It
Speaker 1: was called Man of Man of the Year. And guess
Speaker 1: what they had election fraud back then? The machines that
Speaker 1: are switching to doing electronically and they were counting wrong.
Speaker 1: Because this is a documentary, No, it's just a movie.
Speaker 1: Are there any lessons we can take from Morcan mindy? No,
Speaker 1: it should be pointed out they've they pointed to people
Speaker 1: specifically JFK Jr. As there's been a man who's gone
Speaker 1: to multiple rallies stands behind Donald Trump, and that's JFK Jr.
Speaker 1: I went to see pack and I saw him there
Speaker 1: as well, and he's taken selfies because he's also JFK Junior.
Speaker 1: So some people aren't just abstract apparitions. They are actually
Speaker 1: humans that they point to and say, you know, this
Speaker 1: is who you are. Yeah, I'm actually I was just
Speaker 1: texting with him. So, so his name is is Vincent
Speaker 1: Fuska and he is this like Trump super fan. In
Speaker 1: the lead up to in the election, he had this
Speaker 1: van kind of festooned with Trump paraphernalia, and so he
Speaker 1: kind of ends up becoming because he's a big Trump fan.
Speaker 1: He's behind him at a lot of rallies when the
Speaker 1: JFK Junior stuff starts happening. And this guy, I should say,
Speaker 1: looks nothing like JFK Jr. He dresses, uh, he wears
Speaker 1: like a big fedora. He's very scruffy guy. He wears
Speaker 1: like like a big suit coat. And so, to be clear,
Speaker 1: JFK Jr. Was a stylish man, and yeah, it could
Speaker 1: only be assumed that that style mixed with privilege and
Speaker 1: wealth would have led him into the modern era. Not
Speaker 1: choosing to wear a fedora. Yes, yes, thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe in the nineties, you know, but but now no,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And so yeah, earlier, early swing day,
Speaker 1: big big bad voodoo Daddy would have had a fedor up.
Speaker 1: There would have been a lot of college kids who
Speaker 1: wanted to look like JFK Junior who could pull off
Speaker 1: a a door off. But modern JFK Jor No, no
Speaker 1: freaking way, no way. And so so he's standing behind
Speaker 1: Trump and when the JFK Junior stuff starts happening, people go, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, I think that's JFK Jr. Behind Trump. And
Speaker 1: then there was like a blonde woman nearby and they said,
Speaker 1: I think that's JFK Junior's wife, and so they I mean,
Speaker 1: they kind of get going. But the wild thing to
Speaker 1: me about it is this guy doesn't come out and say, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm not JFK Junior'll leave me alone. He goes, oh,
Speaker 1: who's to say. And so I've seen this guy maybe
Speaker 1: seven or eight times, and he'll be out a rally
Speaker 1: or something and people go, oh, j K Jr. You know,
Speaker 1: we want pictures. And then I say to him, Hey,
Speaker 1: you want to tell me about how everyone thinks you're
Speaker 1: jfk Jr. Obviously not, and he goes, oh, I'd love
Speaker 1: to talk to you later, how about in an hour
Speaker 1: let me catch I'm just so busy today, but I'm
Speaker 1: in town. You know you have my number. Let's talk later.
Speaker 1: Obviously never gets back to me. I talked to this
Speaker 1: one woman who was like, oh, posing for all these
Speaker 1: selfies with him, and I said, you know that's not
Speaker 1: jfk Jr. Right, And she's like, haven't you ever heard
Speaker 1: of Hollywood? Haven't you heard visual effects? Haven't ever of Medeia.
Speaker 1: You know it's you know they I mean, they're really
Speaker 1: deep in Tyler Perry as evidence. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: smart move. And I give Vincent props. I tell you,
Speaker 1: if somebody stops me on the street and says, Joel McHale,
Speaker 1: I love you in community, I don't correct him. Nope,
Speaker 1: that's let them think that. Let them live their own reality.
Speaker 1: As Americans, we have every right to live our own reality.
Speaker 1: I think it's in the Constitution somewhere somewhere deep. Now,
Speaker 1: there's there's a dark side to some of this, because
Speaker 1: I will say what. I talked to the woman who
Speaker 1: was into Jamatrium, and she was a part of this
Speaker 1: Negative forty eight group. They show up in Dallas, they
Speaker 1: wait in Dallas for JFK Jr. To arrive, and then
Speaker 1: they stay there for months and months on and and
Speaker 1: their stories of families who are losing loved ones to
Speaker 1: this conspiracy mindset, and people are sending money to these
Speaker 1: The leader pratsman I believe, Um, Like, what are some
Speaker 1: of the dark sides of believing in these weird fantasies? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm mean, so you know, Q and I have talked
Speaker 1: to so many people who have lost family and friends
Speaker 1: to Q NON And when you talk about something as
Speaker 1: extreme as Negative forty eight to sort of that faction,
Speaker 1: I mean you're talking about people who have essentially given
Speaker 1: up their lives at this point. I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: they've joined kind of like a traveling commune or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they're saying in this hotel room
Speaker 1: for months at a time, which is not cheap. They're
Speaker 1: kind of pooling all their funds. At one point, you know,
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of like little toddlers, little kids involved,
Speaker 1: which you know, it's not great for them to be
Speaker 1: roaming around looking for tupac or whatever. Um and you know,
Speaker 1: I talked to one guy who whose wife had He
Speaker 1: thought he had a you know, totally fine, normal marriage,
Speaker 1: and then she just says, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: to this Trump rally. Well, as it turned out, she
Speaker 1: was going to join negative forty eight and then just vanishes.
Speaker 1: And you know it is he's seeing her in these
Speaker 1: videos and stuff, and he's like, what is happening in
Speaker 1: my family? There's no evidence she's ever coming back, you know,
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. I mean, it is really
Speaker 1: really grim stuff. This is a poor guy. You just
Speaker 1: you see about homing like my wife she left me
Speaker 1: for k Jr. It's I get. It's what a successful
Speaker 1: man and he's in through a lot. You know, he's died,
Speaker 1: he's come back. Um, he's living at this man Vincent.
Speaker 1: He's trying to pull off Fedoras in modern times. It's
Speaker 1: it's difficult. It's a bold decision. Yeah, Patty's found love,
Speaker 1: but she's left me alone. We're gonna pause it right there,
Speaker 1: we'll be right back. Welcome back to Jordan's Clapper Fingers.
Speaker 1: The conspiracy. I want to bring in Professor Joe Uzinski,
Speaker 1: political scientists and conspiracy theory expert at the University of
Speaker 1: Miami who followed the JFK Junior gathering in Dallas. Joe, welcome,
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. So, Joe, we got Will summer here.
Speaker 1: We've been going down this JFK JR wormhole, rabbit hole, uh,
Speaker 1: whatever hole you want to call it, we're in it. Um.
Speaker 1: You've you've looked at what's happening and what continues to
Speaker 1: happen in Dallas. Uh. From your perspective, what's going on
Speaker 1: down there? So you have people that probably have a
Speaker 1: bunch of psychological issues. Maybe they're pro own to delusions,
Speaker 1: they're prone to believing things in spite of evidence, and
Speaker 1: that's what got them to this point. And this is fanciful.
Speaker 1: It's fun for them. They're probably enjoying it. But it
Speaker 1: doesn't shock me to hear the things that Will is
Speaker 1: talking about. I mean, there are families, and I get
Speaker 1: emails from these families once in a while, you know,
Speaker 1: the sun disappeared, or you know one family member you
Speaker 1: know got into a conspiracy theory. Now they can't even
Speaker 1: talk to the person. And there isn't much I can
Speaker 1: say to these families other than I'm not that kind
Speaker 1: of doctor. I mean, there's nothing I can do for
Speaker 1: this sort of stuff, and I sympathize and empathize with them,
Speaker 1: but um, there isn't much you can do. What makes
Speaker 1: people predisposed to believe conspiracy theories in the first place?
Speaker 1: Why why did they go and seek them out? Well,
Speaker 1: the answer is going to be a little bit unsatisfying,
Speaker 1: but this is where we are, and that is that
Speaker 1: some people, more than others, have a worldview in which,
Speaker 1: you know, they over to the window when they wake
Speaker 1: up in the morning, they look out and they see
Speaker 1: stuff and they say, oh, that must be caused by
Speaker 1: a conspiracy, you know, being driven by people who I
Speaker 1: already don't like. And the question becomes, well, where does
Speaker 1: that come from? And the answer is, we don't know yet.
Speaker 1: We just know that it exists, and we know that, Um,
Speaker 1: some people are just really prone to it. So it's
Speaker 1: not the beliefs themselves, it's not the ideas. It's that
Speaker 1: it's people that have a very thick set of lenses.
Speaker 1: So when they come into contact with these ideas, it's
Speaker 1: just easy for them to say, yeah, that must be true.
Speaker 1: You know, America, it's not a new thing to believe
Speaker 1: in conspiracy theories. It's not a new thing to have,
Speaker 1: perhaps a warped sense of reality. We are the country
Speaker 1: that gave you the Salem Witch Trials, were always looking
Speaker 1: for weird ways of which to perceive what's happening around us. Um,
Speaker 1: how serious is the situation we're living in now? Is
Speaker 1: this is this an aberration? Is this is this something
Speaker 1: that social media has one created or two is just
Speaker 1: reflecting what's already been happening out there, and we're blown
Speaker 1: it into Uh, we're it's it's overblown our perspective on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean look, as you said, I mean,
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories have been with us throughout American history, as
Speaker 1: going back to the witch Trials. I mean, there's really
Speaker 1: rich history of it's sort of each kind of big
Speaker 1: pivot moment in the United States of a conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: is really abounding. Um. At the same time, I think
Speaker 1: what's unique about the moment we're in is number one, Uh,
Speaker 1: social media, as you mentioned, which I think helps people
Speaker 1: with this kind of conspiratorial mindset connect with one another.
Speaker 1: The way I think of it is, if you think
Speaker 1: of like the Kennedy assassination, in order to find some
Speaker 1: like minded people, you would have to maybe print a zine,
Speaker 1: send letters, go to a convention, stuff like that, and
Speaker 1: then everyone on your block would be saying like if
Speaker 1: you're a nut or whatever. Um. Whereas now these people
Speaker 1: can just go online and and find like minded people,
Speaker 1: reinforce their beliefs, and find new recruits really really easily. Uh.
Speaker 1: The other thing I would say is we've at least
Speaker 1: I think, in modern history, we haven't seen this kind
Speaker 1: of conspiratorial thinking embraced by so many politicians, to the
Speaker 1: point where we have members of Congress who believe in
Speaker 1: Q and on and have supported it. Recently, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: is posting really explicit pro q and on videos. So
Speaker 1: in that way, I think it really helps mainstream these
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories in a way that we haven't had before.
Speaker 1: I love thinking that in the old days, you at
Speaker 1: least had to learn how to produce a zine, Like
Speaker 1: there's something to the stereotype of like, well you had
Speaker 1: to cut out letters and you actually had to build
Speaker 1: a board and connect it with straightly here and there,
Speaker 1: And it's like no, literally, there's a certain buy in
Speaker 1: that that buys you. Now you can do that's all online.
Speaker 1: You don't even have to go to hobby lobby to
Speaker 1: buy the ship. You can do it on the internet,
Speaker 1: the buy and it's so low. Uh, Joe, I wonder
Speaker 1: where do you see the threat level of something like this.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's with politicians. So to me, I don't
Speaker 1: think people have changed all that much over time. If anything,
Speaker 1: we're believing conspiracy theories as much as we did ten
Speaker 1: twenty thirty years ago. Um, what's different now is not
Speaker 1: just Trump, but particularly Trump and other people who want
Speaker 1: to do what Trump has done. So when you have
Speaker 1: people who can act on conspiracy theories with a monopoly
Speaker 1: of authoritative force, when you have people who already have
Speaker 1: large audiences because they're politicians, transmitting these things, Um, that's
Speaker 1: going to reach a lot of people, and it's going
Speaker 1: to influence a lot of people. Like any of us
Speaker 1: could go on to social media and spurred out whatever
Speaker 1: stupid conspiracy theory we want. Doesn't mean anyone's going to
Speaker 1: pay attention, right, It doesn't mean anyone's gonna care or
Speaker 1: even look at it. But if Trump does it, that's
Speaker 1: a very different ballgame, right, And when you have people
Speaker 1: who have political power engaging in this, that's incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 1: And if you look back through history the times where
Speaker 1: we have, you know, the worst episodes of conspiracy theorizing,
Speaker 1: it's usually because of politicians getting involved in acting on
Speaker 1: it in some way. Is it possible to put these
Speaker 1: ideas back in the box? Can you roll this back?
Speaker 1: You know, I recently was out talking to people about
Speaker 1: the election and election deniers, and so much is based
Speaker 1: on this idea of as soon as you have doubt
Speaker 1: and you see it through a lens of doubt and
Speaker 1: mistrust everywhere, it almost doesn't matter what's going to happen
Speaker 1: in the next election, you're going to see it. It's
Speaker 1: going to be there. Are we already hardwired these brains
Speaker 1: to see and distrust so many things that there will
Speaker 1: not be a turning back that even though somebody like
Speaker 1: Donald Trump might wield so much power and be able
Speaker 1: to direct it in certain ways, that we've sort of
Speaker 1: already infected a generation with this mindset. Well, there's already
Speaker 1: people who who think that no matter what, right after
Speaker 1: any election, there's about you know, of the country who
Speaker 1: think it was rigged why because they lost? Right? So
Speaker 1: as in politics is and sports, who complains after the
Speaker 1: football game? Now it's the losing team, right, So that's
Speaker 1: sort of normal after every election. What's abnormal right now
Speaker 1: is that you have the losing candidates saying it was rigged.
Speaker 1: I was cheated, and going on and on and on
Speaker 1: about it and pulling in the whole of the conservative
Speaker 1: media and lots of allies in Congress. So now you
Speaker 1: have sort of a full court press of people saying
Speaker 1: it's rigged, it's rigged, it's rigged. So that's why you
Speaker 1: have between sixty and of Republicans saying was rigged against them,
Speaker 1: rather than the normal that might have otherwise said it
Speaker 1: was rigged just for the fact that they lost. How
Speaker 1: close are we to having six year and eight of
Speaker 1: the GOP believe JFK Jr. Is coming back? Is that
Speaker 1: is that weeks or months away? I think that would
Speaker 1: be a tougher one to pull off. I mean, Trump
Speaker 1: has a lot of influence, so if he got behind
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory repeatedly for a long period of time,
Speaker 1: he could make people buy in. And if it's something
Speaker 1: like election fraud, he can pull that off because those
Speaker 1: ideas are always around. But sometimes you'll come out with
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that just don't influence anyone. I mean I'm
Speaker 1: not aware of a lot of Ted Cruz, Dad Kill JFK.
Speaker 1: Truther's out there, even though he pushed that, you know,
Speaker 1: six or seven years ago. I mean, it just didn't
Speaker 1: take off. But I think if you go after ideas
Speaker 1: that people are sort of already inclined towards, I mean,
Speaker 1: he can do a lot of damage that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we are all inclined to the
Speaker 1: idea of wanting Aaliyah to be back in our lives again.
Speaker 1: We want another classic album, we want that redemption. I
Speaker 1: think that's on the cosp if if he if he
Speaker 1: even nudges us in that direction, I think we all
Speaker 1: buy tickets immediately to the next concert, whether or not
Speaker 1: she appears or not. I mean, we think that Q
Speaker 1: and on stuff is wacky and crazy and where do
Speaker 1: people come up with these ideas? But I mean we
Speaker 1: lived through the eighties. I mean there was massive Satanic
Speaker 1: panics during that time. Satan was everywhere, and even Oliver
Speaker 1: Stone's JFK movie, which was you know, a popular movie
Speaker 1: was about the pedophile deep going after the President the
Speaker 1: United States. I mean Joe Pesci played the defrac pedophile priest.
Speaker 1: So even the basic idea behind Q and on is
Speaker 1: not new. I mean, all of this stuff is recycled
Speaker 1: and rehashed, and it's largely the same people believing the
Speaker 1: same stuff. Sort of a choose your own adventure mad
Speaker 1: lib book that they're that that they're just replaying over
Speaker 1: and over again. I think Q and on has a
Speaker 1: political valance to it as well. Do you look at
Speaker 1: the pictures in January six, the people all the people
Speaker 1: who were there who were convinced that this was going
Speaker 1: to be kind of this big, like kind of fascist
Speaker 1: moment where the dreams were gonna come true. Um, and certainly,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's unique in that it has
Speaker 1: achieved such mainstream prevalence within the Republican Party. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're talking about election denial stuff like that. And in
Speaker 1: many ways, I think Q and on is kind of
Speaker 1: an easy thing to talk about because you can kind
Speaker 1: of get a handle on it. It's people holding cues
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But a lot of these ideas
Speaker 1: that are core to Q and on have become are
Speaker 1: kind of swirling around the GOP and I've become much
Speaker 1: more successful without the Q label attached. So we think about,
Speaker 1: for example, this idea that you know, talking about gay
Speaker 1: people existing in a school is part of a pedophile
Speaker 1: groomer plot. And so we can see these things really
Speaker 1: being weaponized into policy in a uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: think a really ominous way. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: how this is covered. What you know, obviously there are
Speaker 1: elements of conspiracy theories that belong in the news that
Speaker 1: become news. Um. What think the role of roles should
Speaker 1: be for journalists and coming some of these fringe beliefs?
Speaker 1: Is it giving too much air uh to to to
Speaker 1: follow some of these JFK JR ideas uh and and
Speaker 1: put them up on a pedestal so people can see
Speaker 1: those ideas and have that air out or or what
Speaker 1: you're talking about right now? Because this is affecting our culture,
Speaker 1: do they need to be more vigilant and bring this
Speaker 1: to the forefront so we can engage with them, we
Speaker 1: can knock them down or at least be aware that
Speaker 1: they're out there. Sure, I mean, I think it's a
Speaker 1: complicated one for me. You know, you certainly don't want
Speaker 1: to just go find a couple of nuts online and
Speaker 1: say like, oh, yeah, these guys are so crazy. For me,
Speaker 1: it's when it starts crossing over into the real world.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've had q and On believers murdering people.
Speaker 1: We had a q and On guy murder his wife
Speaker 1: in q and On guy shut down a bridge near
Speaker 1: the Hoover Damn. He had a bunch of guns. That
Speaker 1: was at the point where I was like, this is
Speaker 1: not just an online thing anymore. This is something where
Speaker 1: I have to trust my readers enough, both as an
Speaker 1: audience and as you know, citizens, that they deserve to
Speaker 1: know what's going on in the world. And you know,
Speaker 1: I do think that idea of amplication is a relevant one.
Speaker 1: But at the point where you have Donald Trump saying
Speaker 1: like check out this que stuff, you know, I I
Speaker 1: think the cow is out of the barn. And I
Speaker 1: would add, in the case of JFK JR, I mean
Speaker 1: one of these maybe he's kind of the evil JFK
Speaker 1: Junior impersonator. There's another guy who's put together a coalition
Speaker 1: that is going that has people running to control elections
Speaker 1: in battleground states. Who's the JFK Junior impersonator. They're the
Speaker 1: Republican nominee. So really, I mean this is stuff that
Speaker 1: is going to have really, I think, really concrete impact
Speaker 1: on our lives. Unfortunately, that was one of the details
Speaker 1: when I talked to the Jamatria woman. You know what,
Speaker 1: what the talk of the rally at that point was
Speaker 1: not that this was just a person who believed the
Speaker 1: wild thing, but there was a person who was in
Speaker 1: Dallas who had a strong following in places like telegram Um,
Speaker 1: and the talk was that they had a relationship with
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign, that a lot of these people from
Speaker 1: Negative forty eight were also uh setting up chairs, uh
Speaker 1: and in you know, the fact that they would show
Speaker 1: up and try to help the campaign get set up
Speaker 1: at the rallies, they would get certain v I P passes.
Speaker 1: And this is not just a fringe thing that exists
Speaker 1: outside some of the campaigns in some ways that also
Speaker 1: working and coordinating within them. It's it's becoming folded into it.
Speaker 1: There is sort of this tension with the Trump campaign
Speaker 1: where they seem to see these people as what they are,
Speaker 1: which is huge Trump super fans, and Trump is kind
Speaker 1: of constantly signaling to Q and on believers, but at
Speaker 1: the same time they don't want the average person to
Speaker 1: see a bunch of Q stuff at the rallies. So
Speaker 1: we see the Negative forty eight people doing the Q
Speaker 1: and on symbols and stuff at the rallies, and they're
Speaker 1: being told, you know, don't do that, what have you.
Speaker 1: But there's kind of this pull, this back and forth,
Speaker 1: and Trump doesn't understand that it's so complicated, it's it's
Speaker 1: so above him. There was some Onion headline that I
Speaker 1: think nailed it that was essentially Trump half asking his
Speaker 1: support of c and like, yeah, I guess the Democrats
Speaker 1: eat babies or whatever the hell it is. You guys
Speaker 1: think like you can you can feel in like I
Speaker 1: if this makes you like me more sure, But I
Speaker 1: can't even begin to wrap my head around what you
Speaker 1: guys think is going on. Joe, I wonder what you
Speaker 1: think the proper response from the media would be in
Speaker 1: covering these types of stories. That's a really tough question.
Speaker 1: I I'll tell you what. I started studying the topic
Speaker 1: about fifteen years ago. There was barely any coverage of
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories in the mainstream news. So I started a
Speaker 1: Google alert back then, so every night I would get
Speaker 1: all the articles that had the term conspiracy theory in it,
Speaker 1: And back then I was getting four or five articles
Speaker 1: a day and none on the weekends, and at the
Speaker 1: end of that had jumped to a hundred a day
Speaker 1: every day, and just just this is anecdotal, but just
Speaker 1: for myself, I think I took close to three hundred
Speaker 1: interviews in alone, so most every journalist was calling me
Speaker 1: when they were writing about it, and they were all
Speaker 1: writing it about it quite a bit. And then I
Speaker 1: think what happened shortly after is that a lot of
Speaker 1: major news outlets started getting their own misinformation conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: social media newsdesk, so they now have dedicated reporters just
Speaker 1: just covering this topic. So it's going to continue to
Speaker 1: get a lot of attention. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: what the what the effect of the coverage is. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that some things went wrong in I think
Speaker 1: there were a lot of journalists that had sort of
Speaker 1: a panic over conspiracy theories and misinformation, and the headlines
Speaker 1: sort of gotten to their own echo chamber. Was like
Speaker 1: Q was taking over the world and it's the biggest
Speaker 1: thing ever. And you know, as I was pulling on it,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just not getting these these massive numbers.
Speaker 1: It's there, it exists, and they have a presence online. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think Will was one of the few people
Speaker 1: who was in journalism who was saying, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: it's not as big as of the fantastic headlines are
Speaker 1: saying it is. So I think in some ways, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the sensationalistic report and got ahead of itself.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Will give us a little perspective.
Speaker 1: You're not only on the que and on movement as
Speaker 1: to where it is now, but even looking at something
Speaker 1: like this JFK JR theory, the negative forty eight group,
Speaker 1: you know, how big is it actually and how much
Speaker 1: of an effect doesn't have on the conversation. Yeah. Sure,
Speaker 1: So I've actually got I've got some polls right in
Speaker 1: front of me for for just this moment um. So yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So and now these polls are a little out of date,
Speaker 1: and and Joe does some great polling on this, and
Speaker 1: I think he has newer numbers. So, but the difficulty
Speaker 1: of nailing down Q and on belief is there's a
Speaker 1: couple of things. Number One, A lot of times people
Speaker 1: are gonna say they may believe some of the tenets
Speaker 1: of it, but they're not like on the forum saying
Speaker 1: you know, where we go and we go all stuff
Speaker 1: like that. At the same time, we have to realize
Speaker 1: that at the end of Cute basically told the fans
Speaker 1: the brand had become too damaged into stopped to saying
Speaker 1: Q Q Q and just to sort of use the
Speaker 1: talking points. And so there is gonna be an amount
Speaker 1: I think of people who are kind of downplaying it.
Speaker 1: There's a March five thousand people that's found that fifteen
Speaker 1: percent of them believe Statana Satan worshiping pedophiles run a
Speaker 1: global child sex operation. We got two thousand people in
Speaker 1: January one that found fifteen percent believe that Trump was
Speaker 1: at war with these Hollywood pedophiles. And now when you
Speaker 1: started asking about Q and on the numbers get a
Speaker 1: little lower. You're talking to think three to seven percent. Still,
Speaker 1: we're talking about millions of people. That's more popular in
Speaker 1: some religions in the United States. So you know, don't
Speaker 1: ship on the Quakers. You gotta ship on the Quakers.
Speaker 1: I know what you're getting at there. I can read
Speaker 1: between the lines. They're a good, peaceful group of people.
Speaker 1: Stop shifting on the Quakers. Don't come on my podcast
Speaker 1: and make all this anti Quaker attacks. I know they
Speaker 1: had a hard time getting people into the whatever they
Speaker 1: call it community room. But they're working hard on this,
Speaker 1: Okay exactly, retinue believe the Quakers out of a mouth
Speaker 1: just getting wrecked by Q and on here. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: they're getting blown out. So so yeah, when we start
Speaker 1: talking about that at the same time, I mean the
Speaker 1: JFK JR people are kind of a faction of that.
Speaker 1: And then we get down to the negative forty eight group,
Speaker 1: which is smaller than that, So I would say negative
Speaker 1: forty eight. I think UM has tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: Telegram subscribers. I think when we think about hardcore fans,
Speaker 1: we're probably talking a couple of thousands. Mhm uh. It's
Speaker 1: actually interesting to see, Joe, where do you see? They're
Speaker 1: the hardcore fans, the people who show up at the
Speaker 1: events who are posting most of that information. But there's
Speaker 1: that secondary element too of when it just becomes a brand.
Speaker 1: I go to some of these events and I see
Speaker 1: people wearing cue paraphernalia, queues back and there's cute ship everywhere. Yes,
Speaker 1: the online conspiracy following a mysterious character known as Q
Speaker 1: was more popular than ever. Is that a cue? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Are you a cute supporter CTA? Some people I taught
Speaker 1: you the way that just because they understand that it's
Speaker 1: a it's trolling behavior, that it's a brand that they
Speaker 1: can put on their body, it's gonna piss off the media.
Speaker 1: It's good to get attention from the people they want
Speaker 1: to get attention with. And they may not even know
Speaker 1: the tenets of what Q is, but they do know
Speaker 1: that it's something that they support in theory because in
Speaker 1: their mind the support is just trolling. Is that dangerous?
Speaker 1: Is that sort of a is it? Is it the
Speaker 1: evolution of a conspiracy theory that when it just becomes
Speaker 1: pepsi that we're we're in for a world to hurt?
Speaker 1: Where do you see that? Well, we're sort of calling
Speaker 1: everything Q and on now right, and and if you
Speaker 1: go back to the idea that Q and on adopted
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas that pre existed Q and on,
Speaker 1: then it's not quite as disturbing. So between and more recently,
Speaker 1: we're depending on how you asked the question. If you
Speaker 1: if you're just doing direct questions, are you a believer
Speaker 1: in Q and on? You follow Q and on? We're
Speaker 1: getting between five and twelve percent, which makes it one
Speaker 1: of the least believed and followed things that I pull on.
Speaker 1: I mean to put that in perspective, and we just say,
Speaker 1: do you think there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three? We're getting between fifty and six.
Speaker 1: So Q and On isn't isn't all that huge? But
Speaker 1: when will is exactly right when we ask on these
Speaker 1: more general ideas, like our teachers grooming kids to become
Speaker 1: trans Are there satanic cults doing massive Satanic rituals across
Speaker 1: the country. Are elites running sex trafficking rings? Um, we're
Speaker 1: getting between twenty and thirty. Now, I wouldn't call those
Speaker 1: ideas Q ideas. I mean Q and On adopts them,
Speaker 1: but they could have existed decades ago. And some of
Speaker 1: those ideas sort of have their origin thousands of years ago. Um,
Speaker 1: So they've been around, and I just don't want to
Speaker 1: attribute them to Q because then it says like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy was able to convince thirty percent of the
Speaker 1: country that elites are running sex trafficking rings, when in fact,
Speaker 1: those ideas, you know, might have been around well before that.
Speaker 1: It's just we weren't paying attention. You know, even back
Speaker 1: during the Satanic Panic of the eighties, were very few
Speaker 1: poles taken of how many people were buying in to
Speaker 1: this idea of satanic cults running around And I've only
Speaker 1: found one pole, and it was of Texas, so you
Speaker 1: have to you have to keep that in mind. But
Speaker 1: it was eight percent of people at the end of
Speaker 1: the eighties thought that, you know, one of the major
Speaker 1: problems in the country was satanic cults going around abusing people.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how well that might have been
Speaker 1: believed in you know, some other state um at the time.
Speaker 1: But but right now we're trying to poll on all
Speaker 1: these things, and it's just we don't have good comparisons
Speaker 1: to the past. You know. One thing I would note
Speaker 1: there is that there's something unique about Q and On
Speaker 1: in comparison to some of these other conspiracy theories. If
Speaker 1: you're talking about, uh, like the thing of the Kennedy
Speaker 1: assassination was it was it was a conspiracy theory, or
Speaker 1: the moon landing was fake. Well, there's kind of not
Speaker 1: a lot you can personally do about it. In the
Speaker 1: case of Q and On, there's kind of this there's
Speaker 1: sort of a fascist utopia at the core of it,
Speaker 1: and that there are places that we are going to
Speaker 1: go tear arise these satanic pedophiles. So there is kind
Speaker 1: of like a way that people can participate about in
Speaker 1: it that I think it makes it more dangerous than
Speaker 1: you know, believing that again the moon Laney was fake
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, I mean it's a game.
Speaker 1: There's a group identity, right, So a lot of people
Speaker 1: believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy, but they're not friends,
Speaker 1: they don't consider themselves to be part of a group
Speaker 1: or a movement write, but Q and on a lot
Speaker 1: of those people do like they are doing something together.
Speaker 1: They're following along, they're solving the clues, they're expecting an
Speaker 1: outcome in a shared way. And that's something that most
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories don't really have. And that's why Q and
Speaker 1: on has always been very hard to define, right because
Speaker 1: it's sort of cult ish but not really a cult.
Speaker 1: It's a group but sort of decentralized. Um. It's got
Speaker 1: a lot of conspiracy theories in it, so it's not
Speaker 1: just a conspiracy theory, and it's got sort of activities
Speaker 1: that people can do to sort of be a part
Speaker 1: of it and play along that other conspiracy theories just
Speaker 1: don't have. I do love thinking of it like activities.
Speaker 1: It's like, we get to get together, we get to
Speaker 1: solve white Tom Hanks is drinking baby blood. It's it's
Speaker 1: like just a bunch of little Encyclopedia Browns running around America.
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that. I mean, they had a
Speaker 1: rally in d C and they said, you know, we're
Speaker 1: gonna kind of go on this excursion if you're interested
Speaker 1: to go protest a comment ping pong, So they have
Speaker 1: the whole itineraries well before I let you go. Part
Speaker 1: of the reason this podcast is one for me to
Speaker 1: wrap my head around some of the stuff that I'm
Speaker 1: seeing out there on the road. But to help me
Speaker 1: what am I going to see out there on the
Speaker 1: road a couple of months from now. One in regards
Speaker 1: to the JFK Junior conspiracy? How does that morph? And too?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna get a new Robin Williams movie out
Speaker 1: of all this? Uh? Yeah, you know. I I think
Speaker 1: the JFK Junior stuff is going to continue. I mean
Speaker 1: I saw and in particular, I think if Trump keeps
Speaker 1: engaging more with Q and On, I think we're gonna
Speaker 1: see more people getting into Q and On and kind
Speaker 1: of see some fresh energy behind that. Um. I once
Speaker 1: went to the kind of the Trumpian July fourth event
Speaker 1: and all these women at the Trump Hotel were wearing
Speaker 1: like JFKG in your shirts and this lady had a
Speaker 1: JFKG in your mask on her face and I said
Speaker 1: to her, uh, you know what's that about? And she goes,
Speaker 1: he's alive, and she kind of flipped flitters away. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that energy is going anywhere. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think we get we get new
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories all the time, and so I think, you know,
Speaker 1: you got the big one. I I'm seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of movement on this idea that the elites want to
Speaker 1: meet make us all eat bugs. Jordan's so like you,
Speaker 1: you might want to be on the lookout for that.
Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be a lot of like what
Speaker 1: they say is I will not eat the bugs. And
Speaker 1: so I think you might get someone you know accosting
Speaker 1: you about that. So so don't don't make them do it.
Speaker 1: I hate this. I hate this job so much. Dear Lord,
Speaker 1: dear Lord, Jordan, you might want to be on the lookout.
Speaker 1: I guess there's this thing about elite trying to make
Speaker 1: you eat bugs bugs? Is that what it is? Uh? Joe?
Speaker 1: What do I have to look out for? H So
Speaker 1: worse than that, I think the same reporter who was
Speaker 1: writing a about the bug eating was also writing about
Speaker 1: forced anal swabbing. It's not just about testing for COVID.
Speaker 1: It's about humiliating you in public. So if you walk
Speaker 1: down the street and they have like a government tent
Speaker 1: set up where they're sticking people with Q tips up
Speaker 1: the ass, that's gonna be Um, that's gonna be something
Speaker 1: come true somebody's dark dream apparently. So this is how
Speaker 1: I'm writing it down right now. I need to be
Speaker 1: aware of bug ghazi and bum ghazi. There they're on
Speaker 1: the horizon. Uh, thank you gentlemen. Well, well, Joe, thanks
Speaker 1: for coming on the podcast. Um, I'm gonna go down
Speaker 1: to a Trump rally and a few do you guys
Speaker 1: want to come along? Is that it might be a
Speaker 1: little intense for me, bear up, bear enough. We'll thank
Speaker 1: you guys for joining me and helped me figure this conspiracy. Thanks,
Speaker 1: thank you. Listen to Jordan clapper Fingers The Conspiracy on
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.