WEBVTT - Understanding the Drama Triangle: Why We Play Victim, Rescuer & Persecutor

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<v Speaker 1>Good.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, break it down.

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<v Speaker 3>If you ever have feelings that you just won't Amy

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<v Speaker 3>and Cat got your cob and locking No, brother, ladies

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<v Speaker 3>and felts, do you just follow an the spirit where

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<v Speaker 3>it's all the front over real stuff, tell the chill

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<v Speaker 3>stuff and the.

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<v Speaker 2>M but sway.

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<v Speaker 3>Sometimes the best thing you can do it jes stop

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<v Speaker 3>you feel things. This is feeling things with.

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<v Speaker 4>Amy and Cat.

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<v Speaker 2>Happy Tuesday. Welcome to feeling things. I'm Amy and I'm Cat.

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<v Speaker 2>And today we are doing a drama triangle sort of

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<v Speaker 2>deep dive. Is it a deep dive into the drama

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<v Speaker 2>triangle or just like school time?

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<v Speaker 4>I'd call it an overview?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh what? Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>Over We're doing a what do they call it? High level?

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<v Speaker 4>We're not getting into.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not going yeah, okay, so this is just shallow dive.

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<v Speaker 4>And then if we need to do a deep dive,

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<v Speaker 4>we can. But I think that will hit. But we

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<v Speaker 4>need to hit.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what you need to know by staying in

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<v Speaker 2>the kiddie pool. Yeah, it's safe.

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<v Speaker 4>Where it's safe.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like a hot tub. Hot tub is like the

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<v Speaker 2>safe part of the pool. We're not going deep.

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<v Speaker 4>The hot tub is not is a different part of

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<v Speaker 4>the pool.

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<v Speaker 2>I know it's generally safe, right, because it's not I guess.

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<v Speaker 4>So I like hot tubs.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people have a weird relationship with them and they

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<v Speaker 1>don't like them, Like people don't like to get in

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<v Speaker 1>the hot tub because they can be gross.

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<v Speaker 2>The last time I did something at a public resort,

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't a hot tub, hop tub hot It wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>that a hot tub hot tub. It was a hot

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<v Speaker 2>spring hot tub. So it's natural from the earth. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that the temperature of this particular spring was

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and five, so that you kill everything. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it was pretty hot, but it's snowing out. It's so cool.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I think most hot tubs are sanitary because don't

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<v Speaker 4>they have chlorine in them or chemicals or chemicals like

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<v Speaker 4>a pool.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's hope. So. And I feel like if we went

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<v Speaker 2>to the staff at any place, we'd be like, is

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<v Speaker 2>this being treated properly? They would be like, yes, we.

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<v Speaker 4>Have to say that exactly, and they're like, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 4>so we're not in the hot tub, We're just in

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<v Speaker 4>the hot spring.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. See, I was just creating a little drama. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but the drama. You didn't like it either. You were

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<v Speaker 2>feeling feisty because I brought a hot tub.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I've already even feeling feisty.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that your feeling other day?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't feel feisty.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I was coming off as feisty, but

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<v Speaker 1>that's not I didn't feel that.

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<v Speaker 4>I felt frustrated.

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<v Speaker 2>You you're frustrated. I almost would rather be feisty than

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<v Speaker 2>frustrated that I wasn't mad. Okay, what are you frustrated at? Abound?

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<v Speaker 4>Can I share this? I can share this, I think so.

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<v Speaker 1>I just like wanted to talk about my feeling of

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<v Speaker 1>the day, which was excited, and I was excited because

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<v Speaker 1>my birthday is coming up.

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<v Speaker 4>And then you were like, your birthday will pass. Let's

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<v Speaker 4>be passed.

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<v Speaker 2>You said, just like this, you said your birthday will

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<v Speaker 2>be passed.

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<v Speaker 4>You can't talk about that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not how I said it. And you know it.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm teeing up an example for the drama triangle, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>And you were just like, we can't talk about that.

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<v Speaker 4>It'll be passed. Nobody will want to hear about your birthday. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>See what Kat's doing here is she is making me

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<v Speaker 2>into the persecutor big time. Yeah, and she's getting to

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<v Speaker 2>be the victim here.

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<v Speaker 4>So I can get my needs met, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Which her. The need that she has is to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about her birthday. And it's working because here we are,

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about it. And what I would like to

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<v Speaker 2>say in regard to that is a long time ago,

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<v Speaker 2>we had a calendar meeting on how we wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>roll out episodes, and this is kind of behind the

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<v Speaker 2>scenes in the Weeds sort of stuff. But Kat's doing

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of video things and she was like, ooh,

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<v Speaker 2>our big feeling things episode, it'd be good if we

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<v Speaker 2>had that done a week in advance. So we've got

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of time to edit the clips and see

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<v Speaker 2>what we want to pull for socials and get it

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<v Speaker 2>on YouTube and whatnot. Yeah, okay, I get that too.

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<v Speaker 2>Also Houston, that gives him more time to edit as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Turns out Houston has kept his same editing schedule, so

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think if we alter it it'll affect him

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<v Speaker 2>at all. But since we're recording a week out, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>when this airs, Kat's birthday will have passed.

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<v Speaker 4>And nobody will have cared about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody said that, but we do have an episode coming

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<v Speaker 2>out on your birthday, So I thought that Couch Talks

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<v Speaker 2>episode would be a great time to like bring up

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<v Speaker 2>your birthday, That's all I was saying. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>you're onto something because I want to just talk about

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<v Speaker 2>Stevenson's race. But this will air like way after that.

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<v Speaker 2>We can talk about our Thanksgiving plans. This is airing

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<v Speaker 2>way after that because stiring on like December eighth, ninth, whatever, whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>that Tuesday and ninth, the ninth, and you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>can revisit this. So now if it's no difference to you,

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<v Speaker 2>because I know it won't bother Houston, should we just

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<v Speaker 2>start recording our Tuesday episodes the Monday before. So everything's fresh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and we are bringing in the freshest of the fresh.

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<v Speaker 2>We can talk about our lives in real times. This

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<v Speaker 2>is like so fresh. This is like right when the

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<v Speaker 2>vegetables arrive at the grocery store.

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<v Speaker 4>No, it's right when they pick them off the tree. Yes,

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<v Speaker 4>the vine.

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<v Speaker 2>You're the first come to the ground. Yeah, fresh, never frozen,

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of fresh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Technically our episodes now are a little bit frozen. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're gonna start giving them to you fresh. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that podcasting gives you that flexibility to pre

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<v Speaker 2>tape in that way. I do come from a very

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<v Speaker 2>fresh live radio world, so that's probably why in my

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<v Speaker 2>brain I'm like, we're in the moment, we're doing things,

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<v Speaker 2>or if that has been like.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't you want to confuse people?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I was just I'm I'm down for that.

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<v Speaker 2>So now we have talked about your birthday, which is

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<v Speaker 2>what you wanted. Happy birthday, And then we came up

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<v Speaker 2>with a new plan that I think is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be better. But now we just have to get on

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<v Speaker 2>track to do do it well.

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<v Speaker 1>I will say I really appreciate this plan because this

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<v Speaker 1>plan really I think was created for my benefit. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think I've learned I don't start editing the clips

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<v Speaker 1>until the week of Yeah, so does that matter?

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<v Speaker 2>So yay, thanks for your patients listeners and walking through

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<v Speaker 2>that with us. And maybe you did see a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of victim mode because Kat was really turning it

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<v Speaker 2>on and she made me out to be persecutor in

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<v Speaker 2>full transfer. And see that's not how our conversation really went.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it was for dramatization purposes, we acted that out.

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<v Speaker 2>So in the drama triangle, there's the victim, the persecutor,

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<v Speaker 2>and the the rescuer. Yeah, it's rarely how I show up.

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<v Speaker 2>So do you think I show up as the rescuer

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<v Speaker 2>a lot? I mean sometimes I kind of want to

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<v Speaker 2>control it and fix it, but I've been working on that.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it's not bad. Okay, I know we're not bad.

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<v Speaker 2>I know it's not bad, but I I okay, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we're getting ahead of ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'll let you go, okay, because I think that

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about two things before we even

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<v Speaker 1>get to those roles.

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<v Speaker 2>So before we proceed, though, is there anything else you

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<v Speaker 2>would like to say about your birthday? Because you did

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<v Speaker 2>see you were excited and we didn't really expand on

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<v Speaker 2>that feeling.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm excited about it and I just wanted everybody

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<v Speaker 4>to know it's coming up.

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<v Speaker 2>On December fourth. So well, we'll talk about it in

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<v Speaker 2>couch Talks, which you heard last Thursday.

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<v Speaker 1>It probably won't, Yes, we will. So now you're making

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<v Speaker 1>me talk about my birthday a lot. This is backfiring.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I've I planned on talking about your birthday in

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<v Speaker 2>that episode, but we just haven't recorded it yet.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you just didn't know that I ruined the surprise.

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<v Speaker 4>Were you going to bring out a cake and everything.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I have a half a loaf of banana bread

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<v Speaker 2>I could bring in. I just wanted to say I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't really want to talk about my birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I just wanted to say I'm feeling excited

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<v Speaker 1>because currently I am feeling excited. That is my true

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<v Speaker 1>emotion right now, because my birthday is coming and I

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy my birthday. Although I will say sorry to feel

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<v Speaker 1>less excited than normal because turning thirty six isn't like ooho,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But thirty six is three plus six is nine and

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It's just I'm trying to do something.

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<v Speaker 4>We've a special number seven to sell my house, wasn't

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<v Speaker 4>it like.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I think eight eight? Oh okay, well that's address numerology.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh it's different time. Yeah, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, I'm just excited. Thank you for the opportunity to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>And what are you doing for your birthday? Because I

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<v Speaker 2>am going to be sadly out of town.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So my actual birthday birthday, I'm working. Usually I take

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<v Speaker 1>the day off, but I had to move my schedule

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<v Speaker 1>around this week, so I have to work. I get

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<v Speaker 1>to work on my birthday, and then I think I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just going to dinner with Patrick. But what we do

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<v Speaker 1>is we don't pick our birthday dinner. We plan for

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<v Speaker 1>the other person's birthday dinner, and we don't tell them

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<v Speaker 1>what it is until we show up there.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And then I'm really interested to see what he

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<v Speaker 1>got me because it came in like a month ago

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<v Speaker 1>and he's been really excited about it. So I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if it's like it could be one of two things.

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<v Speaker 1>It could be something really cool, or it could be

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<v Speaker 1>something he like found on an Instagram ad.

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<v Speaker 2>So isn't he hiding it in the garage or wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>he tinkering with it or working on it or something,

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<v Speaker 2>because didn't he say at some point you thought he

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<v Speaker 2>was like surprising me with something else, and he was like, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you could go in there, that's your birthday present.

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<v Speaker 4>No he was. He spent like an hour. He went

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<v Speaker 4>downstairs and wouldn't let me come downstairs. He was in

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<v Speaker 4>the living room on his computer and he was like

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<v Speaker 4>on his computer for like an hour, and then I

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<v Speaker 4>came downstairs.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, can I come down now? And he

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<v Speaker 1>said yes, but don't come over here. And it was

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<v Speaker 1>like hiding his computer screen. I'm like, what item that

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<v Speaker 1>you're ordering from the internet takes you an hour? Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>he ordered me tickets to something, and like the tickets were.

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<v Speaker 2>Going on and then also he couldn't get into a

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<v Speaker 2>corner of the room to where like you couldn't see

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<v Speaker 2>his screen. I guess not as he running up projector.

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<v Speaker 1>But then it came in the mail. So it can't

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<v Speaker 1>be like tickets to something because they wuldn't mail those.

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<v Speaker 2>What could it be? I don't know. Well, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>find out. Are you already know when this is hearing

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<v Speaker 2>you already know? That's fun that like I know, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but like right now I do know,

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<v Speaker 2>Like when people are hearing this, you already know.

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<v Speaker 4>Current me doesn't know, but then like future.

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<v Speaker 2>Current me does December ninth, you knows.

0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Okay, well I'll give you guys updated.

0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:04.880
<v Speaker 1>He's gotten me a couple things off of like Instagram

0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.240
<v Speaker 1>ads that have been like really funny, So hopefully it's not.

0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to find out, and then I can't

0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.080
<v Speaker 2>wait to celebrate you once I'm back.

0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.280
<v Speaker 4>Well you can just celebrate me now, Okay. Why don't

0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.720
<v Speaker 4>have anything you don't have to give me anything.

0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:24.440
<v Speaker 1>What Yeah, no, yeah, okay, anyway, I'm done talking about

0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:24.880
<v Speaker 1>my birthday.

0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, are you done talking about a birthday?

0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.480
<v Speaker 4>Yes? All right. So we're talking about the drama tangle.

0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.280
<v Speaker 1>And the reason we're doing this is because it's the holidays,

0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.920
<v Speaker 1>and when the holidays come, what comes with the holidays.

0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Drama because you're around family period, and just like in general,

0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:48.640
<v Speaker 2>there's gatherings, there's stress.

0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So the drama triangle is a type of unhealthy

0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.120
<v Speaker 1>pattern of communication that all of us engage in. So

0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I say that, I'm gonna say that right now because

0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.360
<v Speaker 1>we have a tendency to think I want to say

0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.520
<v Speaker 1>this kind I mean this very kindly. But like in general,

0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.560
<v Speaker 1>most of us have a tendency to think a little

0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:15.360
<v Speaker 1>bit more highly of our communication patterns than they probably

0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:15.760
<v Speaker 1>really are.

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.160
<v Speaker 4>We all do this. It is universal. So there's no

0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.320
<v Speaker 4>shame in playing this game.

0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.240
<v Speaker 2>I have literally been every character, all three. I've played

0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.040
<v Speaker 2>all three roles. The thing with me is, I know

0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I can be all three. It's just sometimes I don't

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.720
<v Speaker 2>know exactly in the moment when I'm doing it.

0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:34.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like I may.

0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Not have like I'll eventually have the awareness hopefully please,

0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>or it may need to be brought to my attention

0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.200
<v Speaker 2>and then I'll be like, oh shoot, but it's not

0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.600
<v Speaker 2>because I know them. I think I am hopefully a

0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.880
<v Speaker 2>little more aware, but I definitely know that I partake

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.560
<v Speaker 2>and I am I'm just not aware.

0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:54.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we all partake.

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.400
<v Speaker 1>The lesson in this is how to notice that you're

0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.320
<v Speaker 1>on it, so then you can get off of it,

0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.160
<v Speaker 1>not to like not ever get on it.

0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:02.160
<v Speaker 4>I will get on it again.

0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.199
<v Speaker 1>You will do it again. Everybody will do it again.

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.840
<v Speaker 1>So there's that everybody does it.

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Before we talk about the drama triangle itself, I wanted

0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.880
<v Speaker 1>to touch on two things that we've talked about but

0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 1>we haven't really named them in this way that can

0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 1>help you understand the drama trangle a little bit better.

0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 1>And the one is the first one is fact versus story.

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.520
<v Speaker 1>So when I say fact versus story, I imagine you

0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 1>have some idea of what I'm talking about.

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like, what's the data or the facts and

0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 2>what's absolutely true and then what's the story that you've

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:34.760
<v Speaker 2>made up around it?

0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so all of the data in our life

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.439
<v Speaker 1>can be put in two different categories, fact and story.

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.040
<v Speaker 1>So Another way to look at that is the content,

0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.760
<v Speaker 1>which is the facts, and the context, which is the

0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 1>stories we create.

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 4>Around the facts.

0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.040
<v Speaker 1>And most of what we all of us in general,

0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.600
<v Speaker 1>when we're talking about things, most of what we're talking

0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.840
<v Speaker 1>about is the context. We're usually talking in story versus

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 1>just talking about the facts of our lives. And I

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 1>want to give an example of this, because it's easy

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 1>to confuse.

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 4>Facts and story.

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 1>A lot of the things that we think are facts

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.199
<v Speaker 1>are really just stories that we have created to make

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.800
<v Speaker 1>us feel right about the other stories that we have.

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:21.960
<v Speaker 4>I feel like that's a little confusing.

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>But so I was listening to this podcast I think

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.360
<v Speaker 1>her name, I don't know who the guest name is,

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 1>but the host was eleas Loewen.

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.920
<v Speaker 4>Have you heard of her. She's an author and she's

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 4>also she gives me Brene Brown vibes. She is very

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 4>smart and like she she's an author and writes books

0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 4>about like just like thought and her own theories and stuff.

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.120
<v Speaker 1>But she also is a student of work too. So

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.440
<v Speaker 1>she did this podcast with I.

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Really want to say. This woman's name is Courtney Smith

0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and it.

0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Is oh wow, yes, okay, and her podcast is called

0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:57.720
<v Speaker 1>it Pulling the Thread.

0:14:58.720 --> 0:14:59.400
<v Speaker 4>Yes, okay.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Her voice is also really nice to listen to, so

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 1>if you just like need a soothing voice, which Brene

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:05.320
<v Speaker 1>Brown's voice is soothing too.

0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 4>Very I don't know why I brought them up. Oh,

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:08.800
<v Speaker 4>I was listening to them.

0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.240
<v Speaker 1>They talked about this too in an episode of her podcast,

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:16.360
<v Speaker 1>and Courtney Smith said that usually there's only two facts

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 1>really to anything we're talking about, and then like the

0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 1>rest we just kind of make up because facts are

0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:25.080
<v Speaker 1>pretty simple. So I'm going to give an example of

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.960
<v Speaker 1>what facts versus story could look like and also pay

0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 1>attention to, Like I'm gonna give a fact and then

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna give stories that could be there.

0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 4>I want to show that, like, our stories could be

0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.800
<v Speaker 4>really helpful in motivating and encouraging, and our stories can

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 4>be very drama filled and.

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Fear based, and based on which one we go with

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 1>can totally change the trajectory of something with the same

0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:52.800
<v Speaker 1>exact facts.

0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 2>And I'm gonna ask you maybe to give an example.

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:56.520
<v Speaker 1>Of this after you hear me do this, Okay, So

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 1>listen to what I'm saying, but also think at the

0:15:58.600 --> 0:15:59.720
<v Speaker 1>same time, got it?

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:01.760
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So a fact right now?

0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 1>For me?

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 4>I have struggled to get pregnant. Period.

0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>That's the fact I have not been able to get

0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 1>pregnant on my own fact period. The stories I could

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 1>create about that, and maybe some of these I have

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>created could be I'm never going to be a mom.

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.320
<v Speaker 1>My body doesn't work properly, I'm being punished for something

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.160
<v Speaker 1>that I've done. God doesn't love me. My marriage is

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 1>going to suffer. I'm going to have extra conflict in

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 1>my marriage. I'm going to be too old to be

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:37.680
<v Speaker 1>a mom. Or I could say things like God is

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.200
<v Speaker 1>waiting for the perfect timing for me to have a kid,

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.760
<v Speaker 1>or this is creating so much space for me to

0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 1>be vulnerable and connect with my husband. This is going

0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.040
<v Speaker 1>to strengthen my marriage because of the things we're going through.

0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to learn so much about my body and

0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.600
<v Speaker 1>understand more about the reproductive system than I ever thought

0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I would.

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.240
<v Speaker 4>So do you see those two?

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 1>And I could depending on where I am, because our

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.880
<v Speaker 1>stories also help us make sense of the world. So

0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:15.080
<v Speaker 1>we usually have a level of story that we go with.

0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm getting ahead of myself. There's two ways we can

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.720
<v Speaker 1>go with stories. We can go above the line, below

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the line. Have you heard this okay?

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:22.879
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:28.280
<v Speaker 1>So above the line are stories that are very empowering, right,

0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:33.040
<v Speaker 1>and they're motivating, they're helpful, they allow us to be

0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.679
<v Speaker 1>an active participant in our life versus like life happening

0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 1>to us. And then below the line is when I

0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 1>am understanding things through a lens that, like the life

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:47.480
<v Speaker 1>is happening to me, very fear based, and they get

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>you kind of stuck. So based on if I'm above

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.840
<v Speaker 1>the line and below the line is going to shape

0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 1>how I then proceed right and most of the time,

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.440
<v Speaker 1>most of the time, again this is like take shame

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 1>out of it. We are wired to go below the line.

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.879
<v Speaker 1>We're wired to think fear based, and I think that's

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 1>more of like think about how we were created, right,

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.359
<v Speaker 1>we had to be aware of our surroundings and what

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 1>was going on so in order we could protect ourselves.

0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 1>It's the same idea that like fear helps us protect ourselves,

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:20.440
<v Speaker 1>therefore we're.

0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:21.520
<v Speaker 4>Easy to go there.

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.560
<v Speaker 1>But when we go fear based, we end up cutting

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:30.880
<v Speaker 1>ourselves off from any other need outside of keeping myself safe.

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 1>So learning, exploring, play, connection, all of that doesn't get met.

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm just making sure I'm protected. So I think if

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.119
<v Speaker 1>I go back to those stories, like the ones that

0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.720
<v Speaker 1>I said first that were examples of being below the line,

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:53.159
<v Speaker 1>those would protect me from probably feeling my real feelings. Right, So, like,

0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.760
<v Speaker 1>if God doesn't want me to be a mother, it's like, okay,

0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.840
<v Speaker 1>well then just accept that and like figure something else out.

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.600
<v Speaker 1>You can't like sit in the sadness that this is happening, right,

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.560
<v Speaker 1>or this is going to create conflict and struggle in

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.679
<v Speaker 1>your marriage. Doesn't allow me to actually see that this

0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 1>conflict in our marriage is creating all these.

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.439
<v Speaker 4>Opportunities for us too. So as I was saying that.

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 5>Did you have you thought of like a fact? Have

0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 5>you thought of like a fact?

0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, something that I've been thinking about recently, and I

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.280
<v Speaker 2>don't know if it's ever since my boyfriend said to

0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.040
<v Speaker 2>me after I was sharing with him some overwhelm that

0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I was having, And I think it's because I know

0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 2>our relationship is progressing and I have some fear around Well,

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't get it right the first time. You know,

0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 2>my first marriage, even though it's not that it was

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 2>wrong though it was a very long marriage and we

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.840
<v Speaker 2>had struggles getting pregnant, but we ended up adopting, so

0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.879
<v Speaker 2>that ended up being a beautiful thing that happened from

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.920
<v Speaker 2>that relationship and we have a good co parenting relationship now.

0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:16.320
<v Speaker 2>But I think as my current relationship progresses, I am

0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 2>feeling a lot of overwhelm of like, oh my gosh,

0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.080
<v Speaker 2>what are we doing? And I need to slow down

0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 2>or I have some fear that's popping up. And he

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.960
<v Speaker 2>said to me, like, you have somebody right here that

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:34.720
<v Speaker 2>cares for you and loves you, and once your kids

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.640
<v Speaker 2>are doing well, Like he just was going through all

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.800
<v Speaker 2>these things and I was kind of in a negative mode,

0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.399
<v Speaker 2>but he didn't really know what was deep down inside

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 2>of me, and so I shared that as a little

0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.640
<v Speaker 2>preface to the I am divorced period.

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 4>That's a fact.

0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 2>That's a fact, and that's something I never thought I

0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.240
<v Speaker 2>would be ever. And from that, like some of the

0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 2>things are like, yeah, am I now worthy of another relationship?

0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, because I wasn't a good wife the first time?

0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.919
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's a story that that's a story. Yeah

0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 2>I was. Yeah, And how could we have adopted these

0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.280
<v Speaker 2>kids and then split up? So now we've ruined their

0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 2>lives story because you know, when my dad left at nine,

0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.399
<v Speaker 2>he ruined my life. I'm just kidding. It, which is

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.080
<v Speaker 2>also a story, also a story. Yes, because kids are resilient,

0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:33.040
<v Speaker 2>adults are resilient. I have seen it firsthand and now

0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:37.200
<v Speaker 2>been and night co parenting, and the healthiest way possible

0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 2>for us is showing that we're doing the best by

0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.200
<v Speaker 2>our kids. And I think this is better for them

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:48.640
<v Speaker 2>than maybe been an icting together for them. Because then

0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 2>that was the line, that story above the line, that's

0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:53.600
<v Speaker 2>above the line. And there's been a lot of healing

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.520
<v Speaker 2>that has been able to take place because of the

0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.480
<v Speaker 2>separation of the divorce. So there is above the line

0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.120
<v Speaker 2>stuff that has happened, but there are below the line

0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.880
<v Speaker 2>stuff of like woe is me? Or why did this

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 2>have to happen to me instead of for me? And

0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.600
<v Speaker 2>I even think of like a silly example, cryocats in

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.679
<v Speaker 2>here running the cameras. But we were driving to the

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Tennessee game in Knoxville, and I was trying to get

0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:20.840
<v Speaker 2>there early because we were meeting my boyfriend and he

0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 2>was tailgating and some friends and he wanted me to

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.320
<v Speaker 2>meet some people. And it's where he went to law

0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.480
<v Speaker 2>school and his wife that passed away from cancer, she

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.960
<v Speaker 2>went to her undergrad there, so he was with some

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 2>of her friends and I really wanted to get there

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:37.240
<v Speaker 2>early to see all these people, and we just wasn't

0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:39.760
<v Speaker 2>gonna happen, Like we left later and then we missed

0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.800
<v Speaker 2>an exit and it set us back another twelve minutes

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, oh, well, now we're really not

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 2>going to make it, and I was feeling bumped, and

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 2>then Cavs like she went and did the little U

0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:50.720
<v Speaker 2>turn to turn around and add the twelve minutes, and

0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:52.679
<v Speaker 2>she's like, well, I'm just going to look at it

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.040
<v Speaker 2>as like that protected us from something like if we

0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:58.600
<v Speaker 2>had stayed on that path, like who knows, maybe this

0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:02.360
<v Speaker 2>now took us out of which that's just a way

0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:04.600
<v Speaker 2>of looking at it above the line, like who knows?

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 2>Do we know that that is really what happened? No,

0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.119
<v Speaker 2>but it does help give you a different perspective that

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.480
<v Speaker 2>then allows you to take a deep breath and then

0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:15.639
<v Speaker 2>just proceed and be in the moment instead of like, oh,

0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:17.480
<v Speaker 2>why does this happen to me? Why do I always

0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 2>miss the exits and I'm not paying attention to the map?

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:23.320
<v Speaker 2>And then you spiral, So that's.

0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Very and then that gets you any example, that's a

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:28.639
<v Speaker 1>great example actually because it will make sense as we

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 1>talk about the drama trangle, because that is an example

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:35.680
<v Speaker 1>of you be feeling playing this victim role of.

0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 4>On the drama trangle.

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so I give all of this pre context

0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 1>because we didn't even have to talk about all that

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:43.040
<v Speaker 1>to talk about the drama trangle.

0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:44.680
<v Speaker 4>But I think it is very helpful.

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:46.880
<v Speaker 1>And when I heard them talk about it on that podcast,

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.000
<v Speaker 1>it gives a whole different way to think about what

0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.960
<v Speaker 1>being on the drama trangle means. Because if you can

0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 1>understand the stories, and you can understand that you are

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.639
<v Speaker 1>writing stories over and over and over again and you

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.359
<v Speaker 1>were create in all these stories, you can have so

0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:06.119
<v Speaker 1>much more power in one how you think, which is

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:06.560
<v Speaker 1>then going to.

0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 4>Shape how you operate throughout the world.

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.000
<v Speaker 1>So if I can take ownership of these stories, I

0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:13.920
<v Speaker 1>can either acknowledge like, yeah, I'm writing these stories and

0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:15.720
<v Speaker 1>they're not so great and that's why I'm sitting here,

0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:19.040
<v Speaker 1>or I can acknowledge like, oh, I'm writing these stories.

0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:20.919
<v Speaker 1>That means I can write them this way and I

0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:21.360
<v Speaker 1>don't have.

0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:22.160
<v Speaker 4>To sit here anymore.

0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.639
<v Speaker 1>So these are very either way. Even either when you choose,

0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:28.120
<v Speaker 1>at least you're owning it and choosing it. It gives

0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:32.720
<v Speaker 1>us agency. So let's take those two ideas and then

0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.040
<v Speaker 1>talk about how the drama triangle works.

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:38.159
<v Speaker 4>And this is actually really simple.

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a like sometimes can feel very complex, but this

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:47.000
<v Speaker 1>pattern of relationship in communication is very simple. It all

0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 1>stems from avoiding being direct and asking for your needs

0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:56.879
<v Speaker 1>to be met, which again I'm just gonna keep saying

0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:58.879
<v Speaker 1>this over and over. This is normal, This is normal,

0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:02.280
<v Speaker 1>This is normal. Live in a world that loves to

0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:06.640
<v Speaker 1>avoid any type of conflict, and sometimes asking for our

0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:11.920
<v Speaker 1>needs is conflict. And so even me, like I was

0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:14.760
<v Speaker 1>being kind of funny, but me playing that role of

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:17.080
<v Speaker 1>victim earlier about like Amy wouldn't let me talk about

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:18.200
<v Speaker 1>my birthday.

0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Which is a story, which is a story.

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:21.679
<v Speaker 4>Yes, it's a story. It's me saying that.

0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:25.320
<v Speaker 1>So I couldn't say I really because I didn't want

0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 1>to say I really don't like this schedule anymore because

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:30.880
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we can't talk about things in real time.

0:25:31.200 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 4>Is there any way we could revisit that?

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is a low stakes example, but that's an

0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:37.879
<v Speaker 1>example of me being vulnerable.

0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 2>And the the reason why it's like that is such

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:44.000
<v Speaker 2>a simple asset's like no drama. Yeah, So it's like

0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 2>if you do that, yeah, you're not in the drama triangle.

0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:50.640
<v Speaker 2>That's why it's the it's the perfect name because when

0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.440
<v Speaker 2>you avoid the direct line of communication and intentional dialogue,

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:57.280
<v Speaker 2>like we've talked about before in healthy communication, that's when

0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:58.119
<v Speaker 2>the drama comes in.

0:25:58.240 --> 0:25:59.919
<v Speaker 4>When the drama comes in the end.

0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:03.920
<v Speaker 2>And while you say it is very normal, I will

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:09.119
<v Speaker 2>also say it's so helpful. Oh yeah, it's so like

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:13.040
<v Speaker 2>once you see it and it clicks with certain relationships

0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 2>where you understand where you and you can dance right,

0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Like you'll probably get to that. But like, once you

0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 2>see it, you almost can't unsee it unless sometimes.

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:23.560
<v Speaker 4>You're in it, unless you really don't want to and

0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:24.120
<v Speaker 4>you want.

0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:26.639
<v Speaker 2>To avoid it. Like I said, sometimes I don't have

0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 2>awareness and then I need to be told and I'm like,

0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:30.959
<v Speaker 2>oh shoot, yeah, you're right. But I'm glad I have

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:34.639
<v Speaker 2>the knowledge so that I can hopefully I'll remain in

0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:37.480
<v Speaker 2>this space. Like I don't know, I could go on

0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:40.199
<v Speaker 2>some un healthy path and not want the feedback, but

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 2>like right now, I welcome that. Like if you, as

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 2>my friend were to say hey me, hey hey me,

0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:49.159
<v Speaker 2>hey me, hey me, hey Amy, I really feel like

0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 2>right now we're doing a little dance. And that's what

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.679
<v Speaker 2>even my kid's therapist, my son had a thervious once

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:58.640
<v Speaker 2>and he always called, don't do the dance. He's inviting

0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:02.000
<v Speaker 2>you to tango and you are just you're You're like, okay,

0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:05.080
<v Speaker 2>what time I'll be there, Let's dance, Let's do it.

0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Turn the music up, and I would do the dance.

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:10.719
<v Speaker 2>And I remember too, like Ben and I and we

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:12.399
<v Speaker 2>were working through like we were still married and we

0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:14.040
<v Speaker 2>were going through some stuff with our son and be

0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:15.640
<v Speaker 2>I would look at Ben and I'd be like, you're

0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:19.600
<v Speaker 2>doing the dance. The first of don't dance. You're you're

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:22.600
<v Speaker 2>doing the dance like I. Well, I mean, I would

0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:25.080
<v Speaker 2>do it too, but he would probably call me it's

0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:28.000
<v Speaker 2>it's easier to see it in your other people. So

0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.159
<v Speaker 2>if Ben were here, he would say, oh yeah. And

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:32.560
<v Speaker 2>there's definitely times I would look at Amy and be like, Amy,

0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:37.680
<v Speaker 2>stop dancing. You're doing the dance. And once you start

0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:41.439
<v Speaker 2>seeing the dance, you're like, Okay, you that dance is

0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 2>not cool. But that's where sometimes if we're used to chaos,

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:46.680
<v Speaker 2>so we get a little bit bored. We're kind of

0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:48.480
<v Speaker 2>like I kind of feel like dancing.

0:27:49.160 --> 0:27:50.879
<v Speaker 4>Which happens, which does happen?

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:53.159
<v Speaker 2>It happens to guilty, Yeah, guilty in it.

0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:57.400
<v Speaker 1>So as we explain these three roles, and I will

0:27:57.440 --> 0:28:00.720
<v Speaker 1>preface this too, you can do this dance by and

0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:02.920
<v Speaker 1>you can just go around and do all these three

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:07.199
<v Speaker 1>things by yourself, or you can triangulate somebody and be

0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 1>on this triangle with other people. So you can as

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:12.840
<v Speaker 1>you're listening, you can contextualize this in both ways. There

0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:15.000
<v Speaker 1>is a role in here that is the victim, and

0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:19.160
<v Speaker 1>I feel like it is very important to always give

0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the preface that this is different. There are times when

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:26.600
<v Speaker 1>people are victims of their circumstances, things have happened to them.

0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:29.560
<v Speaker 1>There is a place in time where you are a victim.

0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:32.119
<v Speaker 1>That is not what we're talking about. What we're talking

0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:36.360
<v Speaker 1>about is something that's more closely tied to victim consciousness,

0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:39.000
<v Speaker 1>which is playing the role of victim when there is

0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:41.440
<v Speaker 1>a healthy, easy way out of the situation you're in.

0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 4>So I just don't want to hear.

0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't want anybody to hear that we're victim blaming

0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:49.480
<v Speaker 1>or shaming or anything like that, because these are those

0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 1>are two separate things.

0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Apples and orange and oranges.

0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I wish there almost was like a different word

0:28:55.800 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 1>for it. So in the drama triangle, so pattern of

0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:02.240
<v Speaker 1>unhealthy communication, we get on this thing.

0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 4>We do this dance when we are.

0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:09.160
<v Speaker 1>Avoiding or want to avoid asking for what our needs,

0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:12.280
<v Speaker 1>are asking for our needs because of a fear around

0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 1>something usually tied to being vulnerable. And I'm going to

0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 1>give some alternate names too that I like a little better.

0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:23.120
<v Speaker 1>So there's the victim, the rescuer, and the persecutor. The

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:25.840
<v Speaker 1>victim if you're explaining this with families a lot of

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.360
<v Speaker 1>times all or if I'm explaining this with a client

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:29.880
<v Speaker 1>that is going to take this home and talk about

0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:33.080
<v Speaker 1>it with like her kids or somebody younger, I like

0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:37.200
<v Speaker 1>to give them the name's victim is the helpless baby,

0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:39.800
<v Speaker 1>which I guess we did find another name for it.

0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Then there is the rescuer, which is the bossy helper,

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.240
<v Speaker 1>and then the persecutor is the blaming bully, which another

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:51.600
<v Speaker 1>word for persecutor also is just like the villain, like

0:29:51.680 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 1>they are the villain in this story. So when you

0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:57.480
<v Speaker 1>hear all of those, is there one that you're like,

0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 1>that one sounds nice or that one sounds like is

0:29:59.840 --> 0:30:01.680
<v Speaker 1>there one that you're like, I don't want to do that,

0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:03.000
<v Speaker 1>or is there one that you're.

0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:05.920
<v Speaker 2>More I mean now, earlier we brought up the rescuer

0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:08.280
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I don't know that I do

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 2>that one a lot, and you were like hmm, and

0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, shoot, maybe I do. Which you

0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:15.880
<v Speaker 2>feel free. You have full permission to say whatever you

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:20.400
<v Speaker 2>want to say about me. I like with the mics on,

0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I wish I was more. I think it'd be better

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:28.400
<v Speaker 2>to be the rescuer out of any of those, like

0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:31.520
<v Speaker 2>I would rather show up as the rescuer, Like, yes,

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.640
<v Speaker 2>bossy helper sounds low, but I'd rather the bossy helper

0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:39.280
<v Speaker 2>than the whiny, helpless baby. You're saying helpless baby, but

0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that. I always say helpless they're not. Yeah,

0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 2>because they're whiny. Okay, your whiny baby. And then because

0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:52.960
<v Speaker 2>I've been the whiny baby with a entangled in a

0:30:53.040 --> 0:30:56.760
<v Speaker 2>terrible relationship with a bossy helper and I was a

0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 2>whiny baby. And then when when I tried to set

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.800
<v Speaker 2>a boundary about it, they turned me into the persecutor.

0:31:03.240 --> 0:31:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.360
<v Speaker 2>I was so into the drama triangle at the time

0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:08.080
<v Speaker 2>that I could see it clear as day I saw

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:10.760
<v Speaker 2>it happening. It was unfolding before my eyes, and I

0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:12.480
<v Speaker 2>remember like telling my therapists, I was like, you're not

0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:15.560
<v Speaker 2>gonna believe it. They're gonna believe it. I know for

0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 2>a fact that I stayed healthy in my communication and

0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 2>I stayed on my side of the street. And the

0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:23.760
<v Speaker 2>response I got back, which you know, the response I

0:31:23.800 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 2>got back was had flipped me. They immediately went And

0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:29.200
<v Speaker 2>that's why I know you can dance in the triangle.

0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:34.280
<v Speaker 2>It's like they immediately went from helper or rescuer to

0:31:34.440 --> 0:31:37.360
<v Speaker 2>now they're the victim, which I was the victim before.

0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to be, but I was choosing to

0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:42.600
<v Speaker 2>stay there like that was that was our.

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:44.920
<v Speaker 1>Thing, you didn't want to be. But also there is

0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:48.280
<v Speaker 1>what we called secondary gains. So a lot of times

0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:51.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking to somebody and they're talking about a pattern

0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:53.760
<v Speaker 1>of behavior that they're continue to do and they're like,

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:55.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to do this anymore.

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:56.800
<v Speaker 4>And I said, okay, well what do you get out

0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:57.000
<v Speaker 4>of it?

0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.440
<v Speaker 1>They're like, I don't get anything, And then I have

0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:02.080
<v Speaker 1>to ask again, Okay, but like if you did get something,

0:32:02.120 --> 0:32:04.760
<v Speaker 1>what would it be. Because we don't continuously do something

0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:09.000
<v Speaker 1>over and over and over again unless there's something that

0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:09.440
<v Speaker 1>we get.

0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:11.959
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I for sure had gains from it one hundred percent.

0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:16.320
<v Speaker 2>And also I was avoiding, which is a game for

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.120
<v Speaker 2>what I really Yeah, like I didn't have to really

0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:24.000
<v Speaker 2>speak up. And I can also see in this relationship

0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:27.400
<v Speaker 2>like they would have benefited by speaking up for what

0:32:27.440 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 2>they needed too, like they were avoiding as well, and

0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:34.480
<v Speaker 2>I hate that for them. We were both doing it well.

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:36.760
<v Speaker 1>And I'm glad that you're saying all of that because

0:32:36.800 --> 0:32:40.640
<v Speaker 1>the reason I kind of like using the other names

0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:44.000
<v Speaker 1>is because all of these roles are in their own

0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 1>right victim.

0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:48.840
<v Speaker 4>Nobody's actually getting their needs met here. Nobody is.

0:32:49.080 --> 0:32:51.600
<v Speaker 1>We're getting a version of our needs met. We're getting

0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:55.920
<v Speaker 1>that secondary gain. So like I might not get if

0:32:55.960 --> 0:33:00.000
<v Speaker 1>my need is to talk about my birthday, I'm struggling

0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:01.880
<v Speaker 1>with an example right here, but my need is to

0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:06.440
<v Speaker 1>talk about my birthday. By me playing the victim role,

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:09.080
<v Speaker 1>I get to gain the idea that like I'm not

0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:11.960
<v Speaker 1>doing anything wrong, and it's like all your fault and

0:33:12.000 --> 0:33:15.000
<v Speaker 1>by you you didn't do this, But let's say that

0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:18.719
<v Speaker 1>you were, like nobody cares about your birthday, then like

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:22.720
<v Speaker 1>you don't like you end up having like the blame

0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:24.720
<v Speaker 1>is not on you either. You're like, my hands are clean.

0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Nobody wants to hear about it. It's not me, you

0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:30.720
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean? And like that's kind of me, right,

0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:32.600
<v Speaker 1>I would get my feelings hurt, and then I could

0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:34.920
<v Speaker 1>blame you for being mean to me, and then we

0:33:34.960 --> 0:33:37.400
<v Speaker 1>would have a whole other issue that has nothing to

0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:40.680
<v Speaker 1>do with me talking about my birthday. Right, So let's

0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:44.120
<v Speaker 1>talk about each role individually and then we'll come back.

0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:46.600
<v Speaker 1>And I have a really good example I thought of

0:33:46.680 --> 0:33:49.640
<v Speaker 1>while I was watching a Netflix Christmas movie today.

0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:52.719
<v Speaker 4>So we're gonna come back to that, Okay, mery xmis

0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:53.200
<v Speaker 4>have you watched it?

0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I have watched it.

0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:56.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so then you're gonna know Okay, actually we might.

0:33:56.560 --> 0:33:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna quiz you. I'm gonna ask you to place the.

0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Roles and this is the one where that Lisha's Silverstone, yes, which.

0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:04.440
<v Speaker 4>Like blast from the past, all right, and Melissa johan

0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 4>Hark yes crazy she is her sister or is her

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:09.560
<v Speaker 4>sister in the movie? Oh that was her sister.

0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:12.400
<v Speaker 2>I thought, so, well, you might not want to quiz

0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:15.320
<v Speaker 2>me because it's paying attention. No, no, no, I'm.

0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Pretty sure that was her sister. I might not, it

0:34:17.360 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter. I was doing multiple things anyway. Okay, so

0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:24.880
<v Speaker 1>let's talk about the persecutor first. So the persecutor is

0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:29.279
<v Speaker 1>I think my experience is like they get like the

0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 1>bad rap in this triangle, like they're like the mean one.

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:36.880
<v Speaker 1>They're the ones that are causing the problem essentially, but

0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:39.600
<v Speaker 1>they're also saying, this is not me, this is you.

0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:44.040
<v Speaker 1>So if I'm the persecutor, I'm blaming you for whatever

0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:48.040
<v Speaker 1>the issue is. But if you are not the persecutor,

0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:50.800
<v Speaker 1>you're then blaming me. We're all trying to shift blame.

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 1>So then nobody has to do anything. So if I'm

0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:54.799
<v Speaker 1>blaming you and you're blaming me, then guess what.

0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Nothing's getting downe nothing.

0:34:57.200 --> 0:34:58.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't have to change and you don't have to change.

0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:01.919
<v Speaker 1>And I think that all also as a reason why

0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:04.239
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times we have the same kind of

0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:06.719
<v Speaker 1>arguments over and over and over again, because if we

0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:08.800
<v Speaker 1>do not realize that we are stuck in a cycle

0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:12.360
<v Speaker 1>of story, we don't realize that we have agency to

0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:16.400
<v Speaker 1>shift that. And I'm not just going to like like, okay,

0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:19.000
<v Speaker 1>never mind, my story is not real if I don't

0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:20.840
<v Speaker 1>realize that I'm in this cycle.

0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 4>Does that make sense?

0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But that's why I think talking about the triangle

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:28.200
<v Speaker 2>is so helpful, because I was in the cycle for

0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:34.080
<v Speaker 2>years but didn't know this concept existed.

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:38.440
<v Speaker 4>Yes, so you're thinking my story, my story, my story.

0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:41.279
<v Speaker 2>I just thought I just thought, well, this is just

0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:45.120
<v Speaker 2>how it is, Like, this is just their relationship, and

0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:48.279
<v Speaker 2>this is our cycle, and this is what we do

0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:51.279
<v Speaker 2>and I don't know how to stop it. But then

0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:55.200
<v Speaker 2>once you realize where you each are and the roles

0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:58.400
<v Speaker 2>that are being played, then you do have the ability

0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:00.439
<v Speaker 2>to stop it. And sometimes it might be too gone

0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:04.919
<v Speaker 2>to where it's like yeah, but that's a different conversation. Yeah,

0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:08.359
<v Speaker 2>it's just interesting. Like, so I'm excited to hear more

0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:11.000
<v Speaker 2>about what you have to say about it, because I haven't.

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:14.480
<v Speaker 2>I guess I've probably first learned about it three or

0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:15.120
<v Speaker 2>four years ago.

0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:16.720
<v Speaker 4>You've known about it for longer.

0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:19.760
<v Speaker 2>No, oh, No, I learned about it in my couple's

0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:23.479
<v Speaker 2>therapy with Ben. Maybe I just that feels so long ago,

0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:25.520
<v Speaker 2>and it was when we were separated, we were not

0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:39.160
<v Speaker 2>still together, so it was twenty twenty one.

0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:46.440
<v Speaker 1>So the persecutor, they're like the bad cop essentially, they're angry,

0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:52.600
<v Speaker 1>they're very blamey. It's all your fault, the persecutor. Also,

0:36:52.800 --> 0:36:58.280
<v Speaker 1>like if there's ever any like gossip or like trash

0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:01.719
<v Speaker 1>talking or bad talking gossip in the sense of like

0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:06.200
<v Speaker 1>in an ill intentioned way, that's a persecutor role. Like

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:08.239
<v Speaker 1>that's some of your being a persecutor if you're if

0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:11.120
<v Speaker 1>you're doing that. So if you are with your if

0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:13.359
<v Speaker 1>there is an argument within your friend group and you're

0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:17.000
<v Speaker 1>off gossiping and talking about how SUSICQ did X y

0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:19.759
<v Speaker 1>Z and can you believe it, you're being a persecutor.

0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:23.160
<v Speaker 1>You are blaming another person for an issue or conflict

0:37:23.160 --> 0:37:25.680
<v Speaker 1>that you have versus going and speaking your needs and

0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:26.680
<v Speaker 1>talking that out.

0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:29.080
<v Speaker 2>So I mentioned earlier, since you're talking about being the

0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:33.400
<v Speaker 2>actual persecutor, that I was then put into the persecutor

0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:36.840
<v Speaker 2>role when I set a boundary, but I wasn't actually

0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:42.319
<v Speaker 2>the persecutor. So that like talk about that because I

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:44.000
<v Speaker 2>have not, I don't know that I've ever talked that

0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:48.439
<v Speaker 2>through like how I I wasn't, but I was made

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:51.960
<v Speaker 2>to be with the response that I got and the

0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:56.560
<v Speaker 2>the story that was now being told for their laid

0:37:56.640 --> 0:38:00.600
<v Speaker 2>me out as a persecutor. And it's just because I

0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 2>shifted the well.

0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:03.480
<v Speaker 4>Because you're fighting over being the victim.

0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I messed with the game.

0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:08.080
<v Speaker 1>So that person doesn't want to be the persecutor, so

0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:11.040
<v Speaker 1>they're making you the persecutor. But then you, by saying

0:38:11.080 --> 0:38:13.560
<v Speaker 1>they made me the persecutor, is then making that person

0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:16.160
<v Speaker 1>the persecutor because you guys are both fighting to be

0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:19.000
<v Speaker 1>the victim, even though you wouldn't actually admit that in

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:19.880
<v Speaker 1>the moment.

0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:23.160
<v Speaker 2>To be clear, I never said to I never responded

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:25.080
<v Speaker 2>in a way. I'm just sharing that with you. I

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:29.839
<v Speaker 2>never said you're making me the persecutor. I never know that, But.

0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:32.840
<v Speaker 1>In your head that's happening. Does that make sense? Yeah?

0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:34.920
<v Speaker 1>What the And I'm explaining this. You have to think

0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:38.160
<v Speaker 1>about this in two contexts. You're on this triangle by

0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:41.759
<v Speaker 1>yourself and you're just traveling around, and then also you

0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:43.200
<v Speaker 1>can be on this trigle with other people.

0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:45.840
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so the persecutor is.

0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Somebody who is never going to do anything to fix

0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:54.200
<v Speaker 1>or solve the problem, but they are going to criticize

0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and find a problem.

0:38:57.400 --> 0:39:01.000
<v Speaker 4>It's not me, it's you. That's what they say.

0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 2>That's a persecuter.

0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:04.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, Now nobody wants to be that one for sure.

0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:07.439
<v Speaker 1>That's the one that people are like, ah, that never

0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:07.840
<v Speaker 1>be me.

0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:08.359
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 1>We also again we do this to ourselves as well,

0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:16.600
<v Speaker 1>so that's persecuter. Then we have the rescuer. But you

0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:19.600
<v Speaker 1>also usually have like a start gate position, so there's

0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:22.839
<v Speaker 1>usually a role that you gravitate towards and then no

0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:24.800
<v Speaker 1>matter what, once you're on this, you're going to do

0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:27.319
<v Speaker 1>it all. So that's just to take some Like if

0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:28.719
<v Speaker 1>you're listening to this and you're like, I don't want

0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:31.680
<v Speaker 1>to be that way, just take a deep breath and

0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:33.960
<v Speaker 1>release the shame. Because if you do one of these,

0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:37.280
<v Speaker 1>you do all of them, and all of us do them,

0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:38.920
<v Speaker 1>so nobody is alone.

0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:43.000
<v Speaker 2>One ticket to drama town. Please. So you're saying, like

0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:45.920
<v Speaker 2>when we when we hop on the ride, we're that

0:39:45.960 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 2>we typically oh, start with, we have a station we

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:50.400
<v Speaker 2>typically go to first.

0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:52.719
<v Speaker 4>It's a start gate. It's like easy for me to

0:39:52.760 --> 0:39:53.440
<v Speaker 4>get on in that.

0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:56.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, mine's for sure, victim, Okay, I can hop

0:39:56.680 --> 0:39:57.400
<v Speaker 2>on there real quick.

0:39:57.880 --> 0:39:59.319
<v Speaker 1>I was going to say, I feel like you are

0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:02.920
<v Speaker 1>in my experience of you, which you can also this

0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:04.759
<v Speaker 1>could be different in different experiences, but like in my

0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:06.799
<v Speaker 1>experience of you, I feel like it's I've seen you

0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:09.600
<v Speaker 1>easier to jump on in the rescuer.

0:40:10.520 --> 0:40:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's apparent because you said that earlier about me,

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:14.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, really, tell me more.

0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:16.600
<v Speaker 4>I just see you in that context.

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:18.960
<v Speaker 1>But also like maybe you were already on the triangle

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:21.040
<v Speaker 1>and I just see you in that rescue position more.

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:26.959
<v Speaker 4>That makes sense. I get on this triangle usually. Well,

0:40:27.360 --> 0:40:28.080
<v Speaker 4>now that I'm.

0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Like revisiting this, I used to always say, like it's

0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:32.719
<v Speaker 1>easy for me to get on as the rescuer. I

0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:35.200
<v Speaker 1>think I honestly can get on as the persecutor pretty easily.

0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:42.040
<v Speaker 2>No comments, I don't think. I don't. I think from

0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:44.960
<v Speaker 2>stories that you tell me, I love to blame somebody.

0:40:44.960 --> 0:40:45.520
<v Speaker 4>I see that.

0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:48.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but not because I've experienced it from you.

0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:51.640
<v Speaker 4>Okay, and I love to blame somebody, you know what

0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:51.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean.

0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:54.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, you don't like being told what to do?

0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:59.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? Ever, yeah, so it's like, can you believe this?

0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:03.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, but then you like come back around, You're rational.

0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:05.760
<v Speaker 4>It's just what I'd like to get on that trend

0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:09.360
<v Speaker 4>for a little bit. Yeah, So back to the rescuer.

0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:13.000
<v Speaker 4>The rescuer plays like the good cop to the persecutor's

0:41:13.040 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 4>bad cop. They give codependent vibes.

0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:18.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's what you thought that was me. I didn't

0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:21.799
<v Speaker 2>say I do sometimes to give codependent vibes.

0:41:21.920 --> 0:41:24.680
<v Speaker 4>And they end up playing like a martyr role.

0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I've been a martyr too.

0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:26.759
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:30.800
<v Speaker 1>So they forego all of their needs to solve somebody

0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:32.120
<v Speaker 1>else's needs.

0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:33.760
<v Speaker 4>Is that okay, so you're relating.

0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Uh, this was more so in my marriage. Uh, at

0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:40.239
<v Speaker 2>the end of it. And I won't ever forget what

0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:43.279
<v Speaker 2>one of my therapists said to me, Like I I

0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:46.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, I can't, I can't do that, like I,

0:41:46.160 --> 0:41:49.200
<v Speaker 2>I will just stay in this forever. And then she

0:41:49.280 --> 0:41:52.520
<v Speaker 2>said to me, oh, you sweet martyr. And I remember

0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:54.719
<v Speaker 2>I was pacing in my backyard at my other house,

0:41:54.760 --> 0:41:56.799
<v Speaker 2>like I remember exactly, and she has an accent and

0:41:56.800 --> 0:42:00.719
<v Speaker 2>she goes, oh you sweet Mata, and I was like, huh,

0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:04.279
<v Speaker 2>it almost just clicked. It clicked, and I was like,

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:08.440
<v Speaker 2>and that's what I either one of us would have

0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:11.359
<v Speaker 2>been doing in that situation. I mean been too. And

0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:14.920
<v Speaker 2>this isn't just all specific too. My marriage. There was

0:42:15.080 --> 0:42:21.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of things happening, but I realized like, oh wow, okay, yeah,

0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:24.240
<v Speaker 2>I need to there's a lot to make an actual

0:42:24.640 --> 0:42:27.359
<v Speaker 2>choice for myself, not just for somebody.

0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Else, which I was gonna say, like, there's a lot

0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:32.719
<v Speaker 1>of guilt involved in the rescuer and you use that

0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:36.600
<v Speaker 1>on yourself, like I feel guilty for choosing myself. The

0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:41.480
<v Speaker 1>problem is we cannot spend our lives fixing other people's problems,

0:42:42.560 --> 0:42:46.000
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of times when we're doing this, that

0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:48.800
<v Speaker 1>other person doesn't really want their problem to be fixed

0:42:49.160 --> 0:42:52.480
<v Speaker 1>because if you give them a real solution, then that

0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:55.680
<v Speaker 1>victim has to actually do something, and we haven't gotten

0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:58.040
<v Speaker 1>exactly to the victim, but the victim doesn't actually.

0:42:57.760 --> 0:42:58.600
<v Speaker 4>Want to do anything.

0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:00.719
<v Speaker 1>They want to play the victim because if I am

0:43:00.760 --> 0:43:04.120
<v Speaker 1>the victim, there's nothing I can do. Sorry, But if

0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you give them a solution that's debunked, so they'll find

0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:11.040
<v Speaker 1>an excuse. So then you'll hustle or then you'll become

0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:13.600
<v Speaker 1>the persecutor because you're like, I gave you a solution,

0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:15.520
<v Speaker 1>and duh duh, du du don this is your fault

0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:17.719
<v Speaker 1>and you're here because of blah blah blah. So not

0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:19.640
<v Speaker 1>that you would say it like that, but that's how

0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:22.799
<v Speaker 1>you can switch really easy. And I can I get that,

0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:27.000
<v Speaker 1>like if I'm working really hard to help you in

0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:30.279
<v Speaker 1>some way and you keep giving me excuse out of

0:43:30.320 --> 0:43:34.239
<v Speaker 1>excuse after excuse after excuse, I'm going to get exhausted

0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.759
<v Speaker 1>and frustrated and angry and resentful, and then i might

0:43:38.040 --> 0:43:40.440
<v Speaker 1>lash out at you, and then I'm going to blame

0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:43.879
<v Speaker 1>you for me feeling like this, even though I could

0:43:43.920 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 1>just be like, okay, you don't want my help, bye bye.

0:43:47.480 --> 0:43:50.239
<v Speaker 1>But that's really hard because of the stories we have

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 1>around your responsibility, maybe even to this person or the

0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:59.759
<v Speaker 1>situation or the world. So rescuer is a tough role

0:43:59.800 --> 0:44:02.879
<v Speaker 1>because you really feel like you are doing the right thing,

0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:06.880
<v Speaker 1>but you're not helping, and you're definitely not helping yourself.

0:44:07.360 --> 0:44:08.920
<v Speaker 1>I love that she called you a sweet martyr.

0:44:09.320 --> 0:44:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh you sweet Mata, and you're like, wait what, Okay,

0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:15.960
<v Speaker 2>it's weird. It's interesting right when I thought back to

0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:17.920
<v Speaker 2>that story, which I mean, I've told it before, but

0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:21.799
<v Speaker 2>that was a few years ago for sure, and I'm

0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:25.000
<v Speaker 2>instantly transported to like talking on the phone, pacing in

0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:28.160
<v Speaker 2>my backyard. Ye, that exact conversation with her. And there's

0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:30.400
<v Speaker 2>not many times I can remember like exactly where I

0:44:30.480 --> 0:44:32.400
<v Speaker 2>was and what I was doing when I had a

0:44:32.440 --> 0:44:33.960
<v Speaker 2>specific conversation you.

0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:37.160
<v Speaker 4>Know well, and also like this is because again we're

0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:38.200
<v Speaker 4>all fighting to be the victim.

0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:41.560
<v Speaker 1>It's some regard. When you're in that space, you also

0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:43.560
<v Speaker 1>can flip. You can flip to the persecutor. You also

0:44:43.600 --> 0:44:46.400
<v Speaker 1>can flip to be the victim of like I've tried

0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:50.280
<v Speaker 1>everything and nothing works, and then you become this helpless

0:44:50.320 --> 0:44:53.439
<v Speaker 1>baby or the whiny baby as you would say, when

0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:56.480
<v Speaker 1>really there's a solution but you just don't want to

0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:56.839
<v Speaker 1>take it.

0:44:57.960 --> 0:45:01.439
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So then we have the victim. And when you

0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:06.200
<v Speaker 4>hear that word victim again, victim consciousness, I'm not talking

0:45:06.200 --> 0:45:08.880
<v Speaker 4>about actual victims. What kind of comes to mind for you? Like,

0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:11.520
<v Speaker 4>what feelings do you get when you think about the victim?

0:45:11.760 --> 0:45:15.240
<v Speaker 4>What things pop into your head? Does your body react?

0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I can only speak to a personal experience

0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:22.239
<v Speaker 2>where I feel like, because you have to understand when

0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:26.200
<v Speaker 2>I had the Drama Triangle revelation, victim mode was definitely

0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:30.399
<v Speaker 2>where I was dancing a lot. So my brain keeps

0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:33.200
<v Speaker 2>going to this example, so I'm just gonna roll with it.

0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:38.479
<v Speaker 2>I it was definitely in a role. You're in a role,

0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:43.600
<v Speaker 2>like it was part of the dynamic. So we're playing

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 2>a part. Yes, like it would be very laying it

0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:50.279
<v Speaker 2>all out, like all the things that are going on,

0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:54.480
<v Speaker 2>like sort of trauma dumping in a way, but taking

0:45:54.560 --> 0:45:57.680
<v Speaker 2>up a lot of that space. But I thought that's

0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:02.160
<v Speaker 2>what I needed to do for and then there would

0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:04.680
<v Speaker 2>be like rescuing that would happen, and then that was

0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:07.399
<v Speaker 2>that that you know so much, So like I wasn't

0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:10.640
<v Speaker 2>able to show up for that person and really any

0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:13.879
<v Speaker 2>other way, even when I kept trying, like I would try,

0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:15.880
<v Speaker 2>or I would think I'd be trying, but that wasn't

0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:19.399
<v Speaker 2>my role. So I don't even think they thought that's

0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:22.560
<v Speaker 2>what I wanted, but deep down I did. And sometimes

0:46:22.560 --> 0:46:23.879
<v Speaker 2>I would hang up the phone. I'd be like, why

0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:27.000
<v Speaker 2>did I just talk about myself for twenty minutes and

0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:30.440
<v Speaker 2>all that was going on, because there was a lot happening,

0:46:30.520 --> 0:46:33.680
<v Speaker 2>But I just would is that making sense of? Like

0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:37.200
<v Speaker 2>that was the victim role for me, of laying it

0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:40.239
<v Speaker 2>all out, of all the things, and then there was

0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:43.880
<v Speaker 2>some swooping in to help so that fixed the situation

0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:46.200
<v Speaker 2>or make it better. And I don't know that I

0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:49.040
<v Speaker 2>necessarily needed that. I wasn't looking, but it was just.

0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:50.000
<v Speaker 4>But what were you looking for?

0:46:50.680 --> 0:46:51.120
<v Speaker 2>Connection.

0:46:51.440 --> 0:46:53.759
<v Speaker 1>So you named a story in there, like in order

0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:56.680
<v Speaker 1>to be connected to this person, I had to be

0:46:57.320 --> 0:47:00.680
<v Speaker 1>this little baby bird who needed somebody to fix them

0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:03.200
<v Speaker 1>or always I'm making the stuff up, but like always

0:47:03.200 --> 0:47:05.080
<v Speaker 1>had a problem that needed to be talked out. I

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.399
<v Speaker 1>have to do this in order to have connection in life.

0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Like it wasn't fun for me, Like I am aware

0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:13.479
<v Speaker 2>of it. You have it thought I wasn't enjoying it either,

0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Like it was very perplexing to me. So then it

0:47:16.800 --> 0:47:19.200
<v Speaker 2>was also exhausting, and I'm sure they were exhausted too,

0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:21.399
<v Speaker 2>and they weren't getting needs met. And so you're right.

0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:23.680
<v Speaker 2>It's like if you have the awareness, then you can

0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:26.759
<v Speaker 2>we could have fixed it maybe a long time ago,

0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:28.759
<v Speaker 2>but then it got to where we couldn't fix it.

0:47:29.160 --> 0:47:31.360
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so you're having this story around like in

0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:33.120
<v Speaker 1>order to be connected to this person, I have to

0:47:33.120 --> 0:47:33.879
<v Speaker 1>play this role.

0:47:34.840 --> 0:47:38.440
<v Speaker 4>It doesn't feel very good, but you were still like

0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:39.880
<v Speaker 4>the story.

0:47:39.440 --> 0:47:42.520
<v Speaker 1>That you created around the like the facts of what

0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:45.200
<v Speaker 1>we're going on in your life was below the line

0:47:45.239 --> 0:47:48.719
<v Speaker 1>example versus just being able to own this or I've

0:47:48.719 --> 0:47:50.680
<v Speaker 1>created this story. It doesn't have to be this way.

0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:53.560
<v Speaker 1>What would happen if I said to this person. I'm

0:47:53.560 --> 0:47:58.920
<v Speaker 1>feeling stuck and this relationship is really important to me. Therefore,

0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:02.000
<v Speaker 1>I think I need X, Y Z and name something.

0:48:02.080 --> 0:48:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Who knows it's We don't know what would have happened,

0:48:04.520 --> 0:48:06.359
<v Speaker 1>but it would have given you an opportunity to get

0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:08.880
<v Speaker 1>off of this triangle, to get out of this dance

0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:11.799
<v Speaker 1>where you even if that relationship didn't end up being

0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:13.960
<v Speaker 1>what you wanted it to be, you didn't have to

0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:15.320
<v Speaker 1>keep playing that game anymore.

0:48:16.840 --> 0:48:19.879
<v Speaker 2>So, Yeah, there's a lot I learned in my that

0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:23.480
<v Speaker 2>couple's therapy that just helped in a lot of areas

0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:24.000
<v Speaker 2>in my life.

0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:27.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so the victim is it's I mean, they're

0:48:27.920 --> 0:48:30.080
<v Speaker 1>all interesting roles because essentially we don't want to be

0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:32.200
<v Speaker 1>any of them, but like the victim is the one

0:48:32.239 --> 0:48:33.880
<v Speaker 1>that we all are, Like I don't want to be that,

0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:37.520
<v Speaker 1>but you really, subconsciously really are wanting to be you know.

0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:39.320
<v Speaker 2>So you know the part of me that gets real defensive,

0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:40.880
<v Speaker 2>isn't that my victim mode?

0:48:42.000 --> 0:48:44.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? So see, well it depends.

0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:47.440
<v Speaker 1>The defensiveness can also be like persecutor, like it's not

0:48:47.480 --> 0:48:50.640
<v Speaker 1>my fault, it's your fault because it's.

0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:53.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that my defensiveness is.

0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Well your defensiveness. I think in general, defensiveness could be

0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:56.720
<v Speaker 1>different things.

0:48:56.760 --> 0:49:01.439
<v Speaker 2>My defensiveness is like we use that dow water example too,

0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Like I wasn't really saying like, it's not my fault,

0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:05.799
<v Speaker 2>but she was like, would you would you like some

0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:07.880
<v Speaker 2>water for your dog. Now we're going back a few months.

0:49:07.920 --> 0:49:10.160
<v Speaker 2>People don't even know this story because that's a totally

0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:13.319
<v Speaker 2>different episode, but a woman offered water to my dog.

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:16.240
<v Speaker 2>But I was embarrassed and thought she was like judging

0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:19.080
<v Speaker 2>me for having my dog out on hot day, so

0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:22.200
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't accept the water. She walked away and I

0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:23.680
<v Speaker 2>was with my boyfriend and I was just like, oh,

0:49:23.760 --> 0:49:26.239
<v Speaker 2>she's probably like, you idiot, why'd you bring your dog?

0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:28.440
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, she didn't say that, she just offered

0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:32.080
<v Speaker 2>you water. Like so I wasn't saying it's not your

0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:34.799
<v Speaker 2>fault or it's not my fault, it's your fault. Like

0:49:35.000 --> 0:49:37.680
<v Speaker 2>my defensiveness wasn't that I was just getting defensive of

0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:41.240
<v Speaker 2>like the people I get defensive that I'm being judged.

0:49:42.719 --> 0:49:44.840
<v Speaker 4>Nobody was judging you exactly. Yeah.

0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:48.240
<v Speaker 1>I think defensiveness can show up in different ways depending

0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:51.040
<v Speaker 1>on Yeah, like how it's who you are and how

0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:53.880
<v Speaker 1>it's coming up in that example. Defensiveness in general doesn't

0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:58.520
<v Speaker 1>just mean this, but good callback shout out, shout out.

0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:01.919
<v Speaker 2>Should a lady who tried to should To this day,

0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:05.080
<v Speaker 2>I will say, I should have taken the water. I'm sorry, Kara.

0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Well now you have learned, so don't get on this

0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.360
<v Speaker 2>triangle with yourself.

0:50:09.600 --> 0:50:12.320
<v Speaker 4>Give yourself grace. So these are all the roles.

0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay, before I haven't confused anybody.

0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:17.799
<v Speaker 1>Well, this is something that like is so simple that

0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:20.759
<v Speaker 1>it's so confusing, if that makes any sense at all.

0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:24.359
<v Speaker 1>And it's confusing because we don't like when we think

0:50:24.400 --> 0:50:27.160
<v Speaker 1>about this, then we're doing the like dance and we're

0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:29.759
<v Speaker 1>making all these connections. So if you like would write

0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:32.160
<v Speaker 1>it out, it would make perfect sense. I did this,

0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:34.720
<v Speaker 1>then this happened. Then I did this, then this happened,

0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:36.520
<v Speaker 1>and you would be able to see it very clearly.

0:50:37.000 --> 0:50:40.719
<v Speaker 2>And I would say, if you're just now taking this

0:50:40.840 --> 0:50:45.320
<v Speaker 2>in and you realize it in a relationship, like I

0:50:45.360 --> 0:50:47.920
<v Speaker 2>don't know that right away, I would go to the

0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:50.719
<v Speaker 2>person and be like, we're in a drama triangle. You're

0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:54.080
<v Speaker 2>the persecutor and I'm the rescuer. You know, I'm the

0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:57.799
<v Speaker 2>helper and you're mean, like or you know, like just

0:50:57.880 --> 0:51:01.640
<v Speaker 2>taking like it, talking about it in a thoughtful way

0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:04.759
<v Speaker 2>of like, hey, I just started thinking about I listened

0:51:04.800 --> 0:51:06.839
<v Speaker 2>to this podcast. I just started thinking about this, and

0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:11.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm just reflecting upon some of our latest interactions and like,

0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:15.080
<v Speaker 2>what are what's your experience with it, because here's what

0:51:15.160 --> 0:51:16.839
<v Speaker 2>I am and I would I feel like we might

0:51:16.840 --> 0:51:19.080
<v Speaker 2>be dancing a little and I don't. I want to

0:51:19.120 --> 0:51:20.879
<v Speaker 2>see if you feel the same way and that way

0:51:20.920 --> 0:51:23.920
<v Speaker 2>it's inviting them into it and not that like you've

0:51:23.960 --> 0:51:26.160
<v Speaker 2>listened to this podcast and come to all these conclusions

0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and now you know everything, or if you are involved

0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:33.720
<v Speaker 2>in therapy, like take this to your therapist and see

0:51:33.880 --> 0:51:36.319
<v Speaker 2>like if like you said, taking down the notes, like

0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:41.279
<v Speaker 2>that's what I had many many many sessions after my

0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:46.120
<v Speaker 2>couple's therapy with Ben, with my personal therapist about my

0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:50.440
<v Speaker 2>roles and how I was showing up. Yeah, and I

0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.680
<v Speaker 2>tried to carefully talk through it before, like.

0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:56.560
<v Speaker 1>You just well, and you don't have to because you're

0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:58.959
<v Speaker 1>going to notice this pattern with people that you don't

0:51:58.960 --> 0:51:59.920
<v Speaker 1>have intimate relationship.

0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I don't. I'm so glad you

0:52:02.840 --> 0:52:05.040
<v Speaker 2>said that. I'm so glad you said that because I

0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 2>made it like you should talk to people about it.

0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:10.560
<v Speaker 2>But to clarify, there are so many people I am

0:52:10.640 --> 0:52:14.640
<v Speaker 2>and have been in dances with and they don't know, right, So, yeah,

0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:17.080
<v Speaker 2>they may know, and maybe they're not saying anything. Yeah,

0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:19.160
<v Speaker 2>but like I know that I know, but it's not

0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:20.000
<v Speaker 2>worth a conversation.

0:52:20.360 --> 0:52:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's ways to kind of handle this without having

0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:25.839
<v Speaker 1>to have that conversation. Now, I will say, like, if

0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:28.520
<v Speaker 1>you have a partner or a really close friend, or

0:52:28.520 --> 0:52:30.440
<v Speaker 1>you're really you have a really close relationship with a

0:52:30.480 --> 0:52:33.239
<v Speaker 1>boss or something like that, and it feels safe and

0:52:33.360 --> 0:52:37.600
<v Speaker 1>natural to talk about this thing, that talk about it,

0:52:37.600 --> 0:52:39.560
<v Speaker 1>because I think there's so much you can learn from

0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:44.120
<v Speaker 1>having two people communicating about it, and there are ways

0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:46.080
<v Speaker 1>that you can take all.

0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:47.160
<v Speaker 4>Of this drama triangle.

0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Really the purpose of it is to show you that

0:52:50.880 --> 0:52:53.880
<v Speaker 1>you can take ownership of your own life and you

0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:56.480
<v Speaker 1>can ask for your needs to be met, because once

0:52:56.520 --> 0:52:58.440
<v Speaker 1>you get I don't know if I said this, but

0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:00.799
<v Speaker 1>the reason a lot of people are fighting to be

0:53:00.840 --> 0:53:03.239
<v Speaker 1>the victim is because the victim is the one that

0:53:03.280 --> 0:53:14.240
<v Speaker 1>gets their needs met without asking for them to be met.

0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:19.560
<v Speaker 1>The reason a lot of people are fighting to be

0:53:19.600 --> 0:53:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the victim is because the victim is the one that

0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:22.960
<v Speaker 1>gets their needs.

0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:24.840
<v Speaker 4>Met without asking for them to be met.

0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:28.279
<v Speaker 1>So like, duh, I want to be that again, these

0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:30.120
<v Speaker 1>all have versions of victimness in them.

0:53:30.560 --> 0:53:36.719
<v Speaker 2>Question, can the rescuer be getting certain needs met if

0:53:36.760 --> 0:53:40.640
<v Speaker 2>they have a I want to be involved and fix everything?

0:53:40.960 --> 0:53:42.960
<v Speaker 4>Yes, but mentality they can.

0:53:43.120 --> 0:53:45.799
<v Speaker 1>And also remember that rescuer is always going to end

0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:48.600
<v Speaker 1>up as the victim no matter I don't know if

0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:51.160
<v Speaker 1>I said this either. No matter what you start as,

0:53:51.200 --> 0:53:54.160
<v Speaker 1>you're going to end up as the victim if you

0:53:54.160 --> 0:53:57.120
<v Speaker 1>don't get off of this triangle. Okay, at some point

0:53:57.160 --> 0:53:59.640
<v Speaker 1>now that will shift again, but like you're going to

0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:02.400
<v Speaker 1>do that. But yeah, I think when you're talking about

0:54:02.840 --> 0:54:05.800
<v Speaker 1>rescuing and somebody being like a martyr, there is something

0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:09.759
<v Speaker 1>that's the secondary gang we get right, so or this

0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:10.600
<v Speaker 1>like fulfillment.

0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:12.919
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking of people that love, like if.

0:54:12.840 --> 0:54:16.640
<v Speaker 1>You're a two like a helper, But remember the when

0:54:16.719 --> 0:54:19.720
<v Speaker 1>you're the rescuer and you're helping the victim, the victim

0:54:19.800 --> 0:54:24.799
<v Speaker 1>doesn't actually want help, right, so the fulfillment doesn't usually come,

0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:26.480
<v Speaker 1>and that's why you then move.

0:54:26.640 --> 0:54:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Then you get exhausted, and then that's and then you

0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:30.040
<v Speaker 2>start giving the silent treatment.

0:54:30.640 --> 0:54:32.399
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I started speaking both.

0:54:33.400 --> 0:54:34.239
<v Speaker 2>That's what happened to me.

0:54:35.200 --> 0:54:38.400
<v Speaker 4>So I also probably do that too. I love a

0:54:38.400 --> 0:54:39.240
<v Speaker 4>good silent treatment.

0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:47.880
<v Speaker 1>So I was, well, I was talking about you. So

0:54:48.000 --> 0:54:50.320
<v Speaker 1>there's a couple of ways to get off of this triangle.

0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:54.400
<v Speaker 1>And is there Before I go into that, Oh no,

0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:57.840
<v Speaker 1>before I go into that, let's talk about Mary x meus.

0:54:58.040 --> 0:54:59.840
<v Speaker 4>That's the name of the movie, right, Mary.

0:55:00.600 --> 0:55:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, because it's she's having Christmas with her ex.

0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So spoiler alert, if you're waiting to watch this

0:55:09.880 --> 0:55:12.040
<v Speaker 1>movie that you're gonna have no idea how it ends

0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:15.040
<v Speaker 1>because it's very different than every other Christmas holiday movie.

0:55:15.480 --> 0:55:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Then skip forward sixty seconds.

0:55:18.920 --> 0:55:24.239
<v Speaker 2>No, that was sarcasm yea too. Also, it's been out

0:55:24.320 --> 0:55:26.479
<v Speaker 2>for a few weeks on Netflix, so I.

0:55:26.360 --> 0:55:28.239
<v Speaker 4>Thought it was brand new. I also thought maybe it

0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:29.120
<v Speaker 4>was like an older.

0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:30.959
<v Speaker 2>Movieh it was one of the first releases, so maybe

0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:33.640
<v Speaker 2>two weeks. Well, by the time this airs.

0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:36.319
<v Speaker 1>If you haven't watched it yet, that's we can't do

0:55:36.320 --> 0:55:39.759
<v Speaker 1>anything about that. So thinking about that movie, do you

0:55:40.840 --> 0:55:42.640
<v Speaker 1>have any idea of why I would bring that up?

0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:46.279
<v Speaker 1>Think about the two main characters, the husband and the

0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:47.360
<v Speaker 1>ex husband ex wife.

0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:51.319
<v Speaker 2>Will you learn at some point that she put off

0:55:51.400 --> 0:55:54.359
<v Speaker 2>some of her dreams and that she wanted to go

0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:59.239
<v Speaker 2>to Boston or something, and that like she seemed like

0:55:59.480 --> 0:56:00.000
<v Speaker 2>a rescue.

0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:02.640
<v Speaker 4>Yes, so it's this couple.

0:56:03.000 --> 0:56:06.160
<v Speaker 1>There's a doctor and then she was I think architect

0:56:06.440 --> 0:56:08.080
<v Speaker 1>or something in that realm there're she had these big

0:56:08.160 --> 0:56:10.640
<v Speaker 1>dreams to have this big career, so she moved with

0:56:10.719 --> 0:56:13.279
<v Speaker 1>her husband to the small town. She gave up her

0:56:13.360 --> 0:56:15.960
<v Speaker 1>dreams to build a life with this man, and then

0:56:16.040 --> 0:56:18.719
<v Speaker 1>he ended up being kind of addicted to his job

0:56:18.800 --> 0:56:21.239
<v Speaker 1>and would miss out a lot of stuff. So they

0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:23.880
<v Speaker 1>end up getting divorced. And then you find throughout the

0:56:23.920 --> 0:56:26.760
<v Speaker 1>movie that like neither of them really wanted to get divorced.

0:56:26.760 --> 0:56:28.920
<v Speaker 1>They both were still in love with each other, but

0:56:29.040 --> 0:56:32.400
<v Speaker 1>she was resentful of him because she didn't speak what

0:56:32.480 --> 0:56:35.680
<v Speaker 1>she really needed, and he was resentful of her because

0:56:36.280 --> 0:56:38.200
<v Speaker 1>she was doing things that bothered him.

0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:40.319
<v Speaker 4>But he never really shared any of that.

0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:43.839
<v Speaker 1>And actually, I can't spoil this movie because I'm only

0:56:43.840 --> 0:56:44.439
<v Speaker 1>halfway through.

0:56:45.160 --> 0:56:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh, so you don't even know if I sure know

0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:47.600
<v Speaker 2>what happens.

0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:48.880
<v Speaker 4>But I have a feeling I know what happens.

0:56:49.280 --> 0:56:51.560
<v Speaker 1>And that's a perfect example of if she would have

0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:56.640
<v Speaker 1>actually said, hey, I need you to like be home

0:56:56.680 --> 0:56:58.480
<v Speaker 1>more and I want to go back to work, and

0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:02.320
<v Speaker 1>is there a way we can figure this out? Who knows,

0:57:02.440 --> 0:57:04.759
<v Speaker 1>they could have stayed together in the end, and maybe

0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:07.360
<v Speaker 1>they maybe they ended up doing that. And if he

0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:09.799
<v Speaker 1>would have said, hey, there's a couple of things that

0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:11.600
<v Speaker 1>you do at home that make me not want to

0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:14.279
<v Speaker 1>come home and that's why I'm working more, she could

0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:16.600
<v Speaker 1>have taken a look in the mirror and looked at

0:57:16.640 --> 0:57:18.120
<v Speaker 1>what she was doing and say, oh, I can make

0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:20.920
<v Speaker 1>some concessions here so we can both get our needs met.

0:57:21.120 --> 0:57:23.760
<v Speaker 1>But they never had that conversation, so they just got

0:57:23.760 --> 0:57:27.600
<v Speaker 1>divorced and then they were resentful of each other and

0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.160
<v Speaker 1>that's a perfect and she blamed him and he blamed her,

0:57:30.280 --> 0:57:32.600
<v Speaker 1>and really it was they were both doing things.

0:57:33.680 --> 0:57:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Have you watched all her fault on Peacock?

0:57:36.240 --> 0:57:38.560
<v Speaker 4>No, okay, I haven't, because I'll Peacock.

0:57:38.240 --> 0:57:40.240
<v Speaker 2>I've started it and this isn't going to be spoiling anything.

0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:41.920
<v Speaker 2>So I'm not going to tell you which couple I'm

0:57:41.920 --> 0:57:45.640
<v Speaker 2>talking about. But I just watched a scene where a

0:57:45.760 --> 0:57:49.000
<v Speaker 2>husband and there's multiple husbands in the show. She works

0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:51.880
<v Speaker 2>and he works when she is at home and with

0:57:51.960 --> 0:57:54.800
<v Speaker 2>the kids and you know, doing laundry and cooking, taking

0:57:54.800 --> 0:57:57.440
<v Speaker 2>care of the kids. She's always on the clock. Whenever

0:57:57.600 --> 0:57:59.720
<v Speaker 2>she's out doing something and he's home with the kids,

0:57:59.720 --> 0:58:03.000
<v Speaker 2>he's like, when are you back? Like when am I done?

0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:05.920
<v Speaker 2>And I just I was just thinking of relationships and

0:58:06.000 --> 0:58:09.680
<v Speaker 2>dynamic and how awful that would be with someone. And

0:58:09.720 --> 0:58:11.760
<v Speaker 2>I was like, you know, this is reality for some

0:58:11.880 --> 0:58:16.440
<v Speaker 2>people that the wife feels like she's always on, like

0:58:16.520 --> 0:58:18.560
<v Speaker 2>she never when she's home with the kids. She doesn't

0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:20.680
<v Speaker 2>call the husband and say when am I off so

0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:24.960
<v Speaker 2>I can go do something else. And it was interesting because.

0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and is there is she playing that role of

0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:29.840
<v Speaker 1>the rescuer and she's well.

0:58:29.960 --> 0:58:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Care definitely paused and was like took a deep breath

0:58:33.680 --> 0:58:35.200
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't really know where she was going to

0:58:35.280 --> 0:58:36.880
<v Speaker 2>go with it, and you could tell she just didn't

0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:39.680
<v Speaker 2>want the conversation or confrontation at the time, and she

0:58:39.760 --> 0:58:42.400
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know what, You're right. He's like, well,

0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:44.000
<v Speaker 2>you knew when you married me that I have to

0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:45.600
<v Speaker 2>have my me time and that I have to go

0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:47.840
<v Speaker 2>do my things, and that I'm better when I've got,

0:58:47.920 --> 0:58:50.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, time with my friends and this and that,

0:58:50.240 --> 0:58:52.320
<v Speaker 2>and so she took a deep breath and she was like,

0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:55.400
<v Speaker 2>you're right. I should have told you that I had

0:58:55.400 --> 0:58:57.760
<v Speaker 2>this going on. I'll be home as soon as I can,

0:58:57.960 --> 0:59:01.200
<v Speaker 2>and you know, marriages work and we will get through this.

0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:05.440
<v Speaker 2>And then she hung up, and I'm like, Dakota Fanning, Oh,

0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:08.320
<v Speaker 2>is that is that her? I just said whose role

0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:10.360
<v Speaker 2>it was? But that's not giving anything. You're not giving

0:59:10.400 --> 0:59:11.960
<v Speaker 2>anything away. I just said I was going to say

0:59:11.960 --> 0:59:14.240
<v Speaker 2>which couple it was, but I'm not giving anything away.

0:59:14.240 --> 0:59:16.320
<v Speaker 2>It has nothing to do with anything. They could delete

0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:18.400
<v Speaker 2>that scene and the show would be fine.

0:59:19.160 --> 0:59:22.440
<v Speaker 4>We believe you, Thank you. I didn't know she was

0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:24.880
<v Speaker 4>in it. I knew it was the girl from Succession.

0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Shiv.

0:59:26.840 --> 0:59:28.640
<v Speaker 4>I never watched that show. I couldn't get into it.

0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:30.680
<v Speaker 2>What I love Succession, not.

0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:31.160
<v Speaker 4>Get into it.

0:59:31.200 --> 0:59:32.840
<v Speaker 1>I watched three episodes and I was like, this is

0:59:32.880 --> 0:59:38.120
<v Speaker 1>boring snooze. I know I'm an outlier, okay, but I

0:59:38.200 --> 0:59:40.280
<v Speaker 1>spoke my needs to Patrick and I said I can't

0:59:40.280 --> 0:59:44.000
<v Speaker 1>do another one, okay, and he watched it on his own. Okay,

0:59:44.040 --> 0:59:46.960
<v Speaker 1>So how to get off of this triangle? So I'm

0:59:46.960 --> 0:59:49.960
<v Speaker 1>going to give you options here. But my first option

0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:54.000
<v Speaker 1>is four parts. Notice set you're on it. This is

0:59:54.040 --> 0:59:56.720
<v Speaker 1>when you're on it with somebody else. Notice that you're

0:59:56.760 --> 1:00:00.800
<v Speaker 1>on it. Number one hardest part. You might need some

1:00:00.840 --> 1:00:04.320
<v Speaker 1>feedback or after you kind of if you are reevaluating

1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:07.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of your behaviors, you can you know, draw some

1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:12.000
<v Speaker 1>diagrams and figure that out. Two, you need to lower

1:00:12.040 --> 1:00:16.520
<v Speaker 1>your expectations for other people. When I say that what

1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:18.520
<v Speaker 1>comes up, you kind of made a face where you like,

1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:20.720
<v Speaker 1>dang it or that makes sense.

1:00:21.320 --> 1:00:25.240
<v Speaker 2>I didn't make a face anything. Really, I didn't think, oh.

1:00:25.120 --> 1:00:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like I'm like, okay, check saying it well, because

1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:31.560
<v Speaker 1>most people when they hear that, they're like, I don't

1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:33.840
<v Speaker 1>want to do that. I don't want to lower my

1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:36.640
<v Speaker 1>expectations for people. I want people to rise to the occasion.

1:00:36.760 --> 1:00:38.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, No, I think that I have plenty of

1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:42.000
<v Speaker 2>practice of like sometimes just not having oh.

1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:44.240
<v Speaker 4>Any like redunis quite a few times.

1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like I think expectations or future resentment at times.

1:00:48.960 --> 1:00:53.600
<v Speaker 2>So not that I don't have standards for things in

1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:57.880
<v Speaker 2>life or expectations for certain things. But then maybe it's

1:00:57.920 --> 1:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>my co parenting. Like no, I think that we have

1:00:59.880 --> 1:01:03.040
<v Speaker 2>to ben and I started having tons of expectations in

1:01:03.080 --> 1:01:05.400
<v Speaker 2>certain ways. Like that's where we had a little mantra

1:01:05.440 --> 1:01:07.880
<v Speaker 2>of like, okay, expectations or future resentments. So instead of

1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:09.880
<v Speaker 2>just expecting or assuming, like, we're gonna ask and we're

1:01:09.880 --> 1:01:10.600
<v Speaker 2>gonna talk about it.

1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:14.720
<v Speaker 1>And also we have to realize that we are not

1:01:15.280 --> 1:01:17.280
<v Speaker 1>everybody else, and so the things that make sense in

1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:19.680
<v Speaker 1>our head and the things that like seem best case

1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:21.919
<v Speaker 1>scenario in our head that work in our head aren't

1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:24.400
<v Speaker 1>the things that work in everybody else's heads because of

1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:26.840
<v Speaker 1>the stories that we have versus the stories other people have.

1:01:27.200 --> 1:01:30.520
<v Speaker 1>So lowering expectations isn't like, Okay, go marry somebody you hate,

1:01:31.200 --> 1:01:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Like that's not what we're talking about. We're The point

1:01:34.040 --> 1:01:36.920
<v Speaker 1>of this is when I can lower expectations and not

1:01:37.120 --> 1:01:39.960
<v Speaker 1>expect this for people to fall in line with how

1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:42.720
<v Speaker 1>I want them to act all the time, I then

1:01:43.080 --> 1:01:46.000
<v Speaker 1>can start to appreciate the things about them that I

1:01:46.000 --> 1:01:48.760
<v Speaker 1>couldn't see before because I was so resentful. So if

1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I know somebody is really bad, I'm gonna use me

1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:54.800
<v Speaker 1>as an example. I'm really bad at remembering your birthday

1:01:55.720 --> 1:02:01.840
<v Speaker 1>the date, I know the month, and I always end

1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:05.680
<v Speaker 1>up doing something, but I can't seem to get that

1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:13.040
<v Speaker 1>date right, seventeenth, nineteenth, It's March eighteenth.

1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:18.840
<v Speaker 2>To be clear. To be clear, Cat's birthday is December fourth, Okay,

1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:21.680
<v Speaker 2>but that has come and gone. Okay, I'm not good.

1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:23.720
<v Speaker 2>It is not just sad.

1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:26.320
<v Speaker 4>I'm not good at remembering.

1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:29.200
<v Speaker 2>And that's okay. Like I don't hold I don't have

1:02:29.240 --> 1:02:33.920
<v Speaker 2>an expectation of you to I know where you stand

1:02:34.000 --> 1:02:36.760
<v Speaker 2>and that you care about me and that you celebrate

1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:40.280
<v Speaker 2>me like that's not also too, birthdays have been hard

1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:44.080
<v Speaker 2>for me. I have Shannon, I have a calendar, Like

1:02:44.120 --> 1:02:46.000
<v Speaker 2>there's things in the last five years that I have

1:02:46.120 --> 1:02:50.160
<v Speaker 2>implemented in my life that helped me. But before that,

1:02:50.240 --> 1:02:52.760
<v Speaker 2>before calendar, and then like have and even when it

1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:56.000
<v Speaker 2>comes to the calendar, like having like my heighty eat

1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.520
<v Speaker 2>to sit there and enter everybody's birthday reoccurring year after year.

1:03:00.360 --> 1:03:04.320
<v Speaker 2>That's something that I will give Shannon credit for in

1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:07.840
<v Speaker 2>that had I needed help organizing my life because of

1:03:07.880 --> 1:03:11.960
<v Speaker 2>my We both have ADHD. Maybe that's why I can

1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:14.720
<v Speaker 2>empathize with you and I give grace because I have

1:03:14.840 --> 1:03:19.160
<v Speaker 2>been that person and it feels horrible forgetting horrible, and

1:03:19.920 --> 1:03:22.240
<v Speaker 2>I have been on the receiving end of no grace

1:03:22.600 --> 1:03:27.240
<v Speaker 2>with it at all, like just anger, disappointment valid, valid,

1:03:27.720 --> 1:03:29.480
<v Speaker 2>But I know my heart and I'm like, gosh, you

1:03:29.640 --> 1:03:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I really do care about this person. I can't believe

1:03:31.600 --> 1:03:35.800
<v Speaker 2>that that slipped my mind. And that's probably why I

1:03:35.800 --> 1:03:38.040
<v Speaker 2>don't take it out on you, like I get it.

1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna get wrapped up.

1:03:39.760 --> 1:03:42.320
<v Speaker 1>You're not going to make me that prosecutor or a villain. No,

1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:44.840
<v Speaker 1>you're not getting on the triangle with me. No. And

1:03:45.400 --> 1:03:47.800
<v Speaker 1>another example that people might relate a little bit more too,

1:03:47.920 --> 1:03:50.040
<v Speaker 1>is like love languages. So if you're in a relationship

1:03:50.040 --> 1:03:52.400
<v Speaker 1>where like somebody in your family they have a different

1:03:52.480 --> 1:03:55.840
<v Speaker 1>love language than you, Like if somebody is really bad

1:03:55.960 --> 1:03:58.240
<v Speaker 1>with words, but they are a good gift giver.

1:03:59.080 --> 1:04:00.800
<v Speaker 4>If you don't lower your spectations, you're.

1:04:00.680 --> 1:04:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Like, well, I'm an affirmation person and you have to

1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:06.440
<v Speaker 1>tell me, xyz, you will get on this triangle every

1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:08.440
<v Speaker 1>single time you talk to them, because you won't be

1:04:08.480 --> 1:04:10.880
<v Speaker 1>able to receive their love. But if I can lower

1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:12.959
<v Speaker 1>expectations in the sense in okay, I'm going to meet

1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.520
<v Speaker 1>you with where you are and this is how you

1:04:15.600 --> 1:04:18.960
<v Speaker 1>show affection and love is gift giving. I can receive

1:04:19.000 --> 1:04:21.640
<v Speaker 1>that and I can actually appreciate so many things about you.

1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:25.520
<v Speaker 1>Now that I'm not blinded by all this resentment, that

1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:27.160
<v Speaker 1>might fit a little bit more help.

1:04:27.720 --> 1:04:29.600
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so you have noticed that you're on it.

1:04:29.600 --> 1:04:33.680
<v Speaker 1>You're lowering your expectations. Then you're creating boundaries. So at

1:04:33.680 --> 1:04:37.160
<v Speaker 1>the same time, where like I am learning expectations and

1:04:37.240 --> 1:04:39.360
<v Speaker 1>able to see all this stuff, I also might want

1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:41.880
<v Speaker 1>to protect myself. So I need to create bound and

1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:44.680
<v Speaker 1>these are internal boundaries. You don't have to tell the

1:04:44.720 --> 1:04:47.840
<v Speaker 1>people that you have these boundaries. So if I'm a

1:04:47.920 --> 1:04:50.800
<v Speaker 1>words of affirmation person and I really need to hear,

1:04:51.520 --> 1:04:55.360
<v Speaker 1>I go to this person when I'm struggling or I'm sad,

1:04:55.400 --> 1:04:58.080
<v Speaker 1>or I need reassurance, or I just need to be validated,

1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:00.960
<v Speaker 1>but they don't know how to do that. I need

1:05:01.000 --> 1:05:04.000
<v Speaker 1>to create an internal boundary for myself. This is not

1:05:04.040 --> 1:05:06.600
<v Speaker 1>who I go to for that. I might go to

1:05:06.640 --> 1:05:09.480
<v Speaker 1>them for celebration in other areas, or I might go

1:05:09.560 --> 1:05:11.200
<v Speaker 1>to them if I need help picking out a gift

1:05:11.200 --> 1:05:13.400
<v Speaker 1>for somebody or something like that. There are other things

1:05:13.400 --> 1:05:14.880
<v Speaker 1>that I can do and go to them. And I

1:05:14.880 --> 1:05:18.440
<v Speaker 1>can see that more clearly now that I'm not blinded

1:05:18.480 --> 1:05:20.040
<v Speaker 1>by this resentment over here.

1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:22.520
<v Speaker 4>But I have to be smart if it's.

1:05:22.360 --> 1:05:25.040
<v Speaker 1>That whole idea of don't go to the hardware store

1:05:25.040 --> 1:05:27.680
<v Speaker 1>looking for a loaf of bread. If this person does

1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:31.880
<v Speaker 1>not have bread, right, I can't keep asking them for it,

1:05:31.880 --> 1:05:33.200
<v Speaker 1>because then that's my fault.

1:05:33.600 --> 1:05:35.080
<v Speaker 4>So I need to create a boundary.

1:05:35.160 --> 1:05:37.080
<v Speaker 1>And when I'm hungry and I want a loaf of bread,

1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:38.520
<v Speaker 1>I can't walk into the hardware store.

1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:40.280
<v Speaker 2>You gotta go to the grocery.

1:05:40.320 --> 1:05:41.840
<v Speaker 1>You got to go to the grocery store. And that grocery

1:05:41.840 --> 1:05:45.000
<v Speaker 1>store might be a different person. And because of all that,

1:05:45.320 --> 1:05:47.520
<v Speaker 1>because that's a lot of work, noticing you're on it,

1:05:47.720 --> 1:05:52.400
<v Speaker 1>and like acknowledging our shortcomings, lowering expectations, and creating boundaries

1:05:52.480 --> 1:05:54.640
<v Speaker 1>is a lot of work. I say it really simply.

1:05:54.960 --> 1:05:57.000
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of work, because that's.

1:05:56.880 --> 1:05:59.080
<v Speaker 4>A lot of work. The fourth thing is self care.

1:06:00.200 --> 1:06:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Simple, just like, be kind to yourself, give yourself grace,

1:06:04.880 --> 1:06:08.560
<v Speaker 1>soothe yourself in some way. I can say this to

1:06:08.680 --> 1:06:11.880
<v Speaker 1>you really simply. But the act of learning expectations and

1:06:12.920 --> 1:06:17.120
<v Speaker 1>cutting myself off from going to somebody and asking for

1:06:17.160 --> 1:06:19.360
<v Speaker 1>something that I've really wanted my whole life, that's hard

1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:22.600
<v Speaker 1>work emotionally, and that's going to take a toll on us,

1:06:22.600 --> 1:06:26.400
<v Speaker 1>so I need to then care for myself. Yeah, that's

1:06:26.440 --> 1:06:28.080
<v Speaker 1>if you're on this trangle with somebody else.

1:06:28.200 --> 1:06:28.480
<v Speaker 4>Else.

1:06:28.560 --> 1:06:31.680
<v Speaker 1>If you're on the tragle with yourself, it's a little

1:06:31.680 --> 1:06:35.320
<v Speaker 1>bit more simple, and the solution is really to notice

1:06:35.360 --> 1:06:39.120
<v Speaker 1>you're on it and to reevaluate the stories we're making

1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:42.360
<v Speaker 1>out of the context and look for some solutions that

1:06:42.440 --> 1:06:45.160
<v Speaker 1>might be above the line, which is very similar to

1:06:45.200 --> 1:06:47.760
<v Speaker 1>that question that we come back to very often.

1:06:48.240 --> 1:06:50.200
<v Speaker 4>What does this make possible? Or what big thing is

1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:51.120
<v Speaker 4>this preparing me for?

1:06:51.720 --> 1:06:51.919
<v Speaker 2>Those?

1:06:51.960 --> 1:06:52.920
<v Speaker 4>Are those two.

1:06:52.840 --> 1:06:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Questions are above the line questions that can help us

1:06:55.800 --> 1:06:58.600
<v Speaker 1>reframe a fact.

1:06:58.920 --> 1:07:02.920
<v Speaker 2>What in general is above the li? What? What versus why?

1:07:03.080 --> 1:07:03.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1:07:03.760 --> 1:07:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, yes, what versus why? It's like the you know,

1:07:07.480 --> 1:07:09.800
<v Speaker 2>I used example of Cat saying that when we missed

1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:12.280
<v Speaker 2>the exit, and she's like, this is keeping us from

1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:16.080
<v Speaker 2>an accident. There's the burnt toast. Is it called the

1:07:16.080 --> 1:07:19.280
<v Speaker 2>burnt toast theory or the burnt toast?

1:07:19.360 --> 1:07:20.760
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. You're teaching me something.

1:07:21.520 --> 1:07:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know. It just popped into my head. Well,

1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:29.280
<v Speaker 2>I feel like maybe we'll end on this note. I

1:07:29.320 --> 1:07:33.600
<v Speaker 2>feel like maybe it's something like you burnt your toast.

1:07:34.160 --> 1:07:38.840
<v Speaker 6>And it's just workshopping this right now, and it delayed

1:07:38.920 --> 1:07:44.040
<v Speaker 6>your morning, you know, but like not why did I

1:07:44.160 --> 1:07:44.880
<v Speaker 6>burn my toast?

1:07:45.040 --> 1:07:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Maybe like more of like what is this protecting me from?

1:07:48.880 --> 1:07:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Like my burn? The burnt toast.

1:07:50.920 --> 1:07:52.000
<v Speaker 4>Is giving me late?

1:07:52.120 --> 1:07:54.240
<v Speaker 2>So then maybe I missed. I don't get around thing

1:07:54.400 --> 1:07:56.160
<v Speaker 2>like that, like it's the burnt I thought it was

1:07:56.200 --> 1:07:58.000
<v Speaker 2>a whole thing. Sorry, I thought you might know what

1:07:58.040 --> 1:08:00.800
<v Speaker 2>it is, because like literally it's just like burnt toast

1:08:00.880 --> 1:08:03.240
<v Speaker 2>just pop into my head. Isn't that weird? Let me

1:08:03.320 --> 1:08:07.120
<v Speaker 2>look it up, burnt toast, bury toast theory. Let me

1:08:07.120 --> 1:08:10.760
<v Speaker 2>see if it's like actually a thing. It's probably not. Brain,

1:08:10.800 --> 1:08:13.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be so mad at you. The burnt toast

1:08:13.520 --> 1:08:18.480
<v Speaker 2>theory is a psychological coping mechanism that suggests minor inconveniences

1:08:18.520 --> 1:08:23.160
<v Speaker 2>like burning your toast may prevent larger misfortunes. My brain

1:08:23.200 --> 1:08:24.240
<v Speaker 2>did not do me dirty.

1:08:24.640 --> 1:08:25.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah you knew it.

1:08:25.360 --> 1:08:30.320
<v Speaker 2>I got there. Okay, thank you, brain, You are awesome, wonderful.

1:08:31.000 --> 1:08:32.679
<v Speaker 2>But like the whole time you're talking, all of a sudden,

1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:34.800
<v Speaker 2>I was picturing my toaster and burnt toast, like I

1:08:34.800 --> 1:08:36.479
<v Speaker 2>don't And then I was like, I think there's a

1:08:36.520 --> 1:08:38.920
<v Speaker 2>burnt toast theory, and then I just said it without

1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:40.240
<v Speaker 2>really knowing You're.

1:08:40.160 --> 1:08:41.639
<v Speaker 4>Hoping that I could pick that up.

1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:43.400
<v Speaker 2>And you'd be like, oh, yes, Let'm talking about the

1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:45.280
<v Speaker 2>burnt toast theery. Maybe I'm also thinking about it because

1:08:45.280 --> 1:08:46.640
<v Speaker 2>you're like, can't get a loaf of bread at the

1:08:46.640 --> 1:08:47.439
<v Speaker 2>hardware store?

1:08:47.840 --> 1:08:48.720
<v Speaker 4>Did I say it like that?

1:08:48.840 --> 1:08:51.559
<v Speaker 2>No? But I kind of like it. I kind of

1:08:51.640 --> 1:08:51.880
<v Speaker 2>like that.

1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:56.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I think that's you know, yeah, Well that's a

1:08:56.200 --> 1:08:59.080
<v Speaker 4>drama triangle or the Cartman triangle as some people call it.

1:08:59.320 --> 1:09:02.160
<v Speaker 1>And hopefully it's helpful, especially around this time of year,

1:09:02.640 --> 1:09:05.640
<v Speaker 1>and it can keep your relationship safe and help you

1:09:06.200 --> 1:09:07.480
<v Speaker 1>and get your needs met.

1:09:07.760 --> 1:09:12.080
<v Speaker 2>All right, Kat, hope you had a great birthday. Hope

1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:13.080
<v Speaker 2>you had the birthday.

1:09:12.840 --> 1:09:13.479
<v Speaker 4>He needed to have.

1:09:14.280 --> 1:09:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Thanks right, okay, and we hope y'all have the day.

1:09:18.000 --> 1:09:18.559
<v Speaker 4>You need to have.

1:09:18.760 --> 1:09:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Bye.

1:09:19.200 --> 1:09:21.760
<v Speaker 5>Bye,