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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 2: All right, break it down.

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Speaker 3: If you ever have feelings that you just won't Amy

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Speaker 3: and Cat got your cob and locking No, brother, ladies

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Speaker 3: and felts, do you just follow an the spirit where

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Speaker 3: it's all the front over real stuff, tell the chill

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Speaker 3: stuff and the.

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Speaker 2: M but sway.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes the best thing you can do it jes stop

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Speaker 3: you feel things. This is feeling things with.

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Speaker 4: Amy and Cat.

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Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday. Welcome to feeling things. I'm Amy and I'm Cat.

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Speaker 2: And today we are doing a drama triangle sort of

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Speaker 2: deep dive. Is it a deep dive into the drama

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Speaker 2: triangle or just like school time?

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Speaker 4: I'd call it an overview?

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Speaker 2: Oh what? Oh?

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Speaker 4: Over We're doing a what do they call it? High level?

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Speaker 4: We're not getting into.

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Speaker 2: We're not going yeah, okay, so this is just shallow dive.

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Speaker 4: And then if we need to do a deep dive,

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Speaker 4: we can. But I think that will hit. But we

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Speaker 4: need to hit.

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Speaker 2: You know what you need to know by staying in

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Speaker 2: the kiddie pool. Yeah, it's safe.

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Speaker 4: Where it's safe.

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Speaker 2: It's like a hot tub. Hot tub is like the

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Speaker 2: safe part of the pool. We're not going deep.

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Speaker 4: The hot tub is not is a different part of

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Speaker 4: the pool.

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Speaker 2: I know it's generally safe, right, because it's not I guess.

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Speaker 4: So I like hot tubs.

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Speaker 1: Some people have a weird relationship with them and they

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Speaker 1: don't like them, Like people don't like to get in

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Speaker 1: the hot tub because they can be gross.

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Speaker 2: The last time I did something at a public resort,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't a hot tub, hop tub hot It wasn't

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Speaker 2: that a hot tub hot tub. It was a hot

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Speaker 2: spring hot tub. So it's natural from the earth. And

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Speaker 2: I think that the temperature of this particular spring was

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Speaker 2: one hundred and five, so that you kill everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was pretty hot, but it's snowing out. It's so cool.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think most hot tubs are sanitary because don't

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Speaker 4: they have chlorine in them or chemicals or chemicals like

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Speaker 4: a pool.

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Speaker 2: Let's hope. So. And I feel like if we went

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Speaker 2: to the staff at any place, we'd be like, is

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Speaker 2: this being treated properly? They would be like, yes, we.

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Speaker 4: Have to say that exactly, and they're like, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: so we're not in the hot tub, We're just in

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Speaker 4: the hot spring.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. See, I was just creating a little drama. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but the drama. You didn't like it either. You were

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Speaker 2: feeling feisty because I brought a hot tub.

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Speaker 4: Well, I've already even feeling feisty.

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Speaker 2: Is that your feeling other day?

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Speaker 4: I don't feel feisty.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I was coming off as feisty, but

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Speaker 1: that's not I didn't feel that.

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Speaker 4: I felt frustrated.

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Speaker 2: You you're frustrated. I almost would rather be feisty than

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Speaker 2: frustrated that I wasn't mad. Okay, what are you frustrated at? Abound?

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Speaker 4: Can I share this? I can share this, I think so.

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Speaker 1: I just like wanted to talk about my feeling of

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Speaker 1: the day, which was excited, and I was excited because

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Speaker 1: my birthday is coming up.

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Speaker 4: And then you were like, your birthday will pass. Let's

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Speaker 4: be passed.

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Speaker 2: You said, just like this, you said your birthday will

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Speaker 2: be passed.

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Speaker 4: You can't talk about that.

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Speaker 2: It's not how I said it. And you know it.

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Speaker 4: I'm teeing up an example for the drama triangle, okay,

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Speaker 4: And you were just like, we can't talk about that.

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Speaker 4: It'll be passed. Nobody will want to hear about your birthday. Okay.

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Speaker 2: See what Kat's doing here is she is making me

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Speaker 2: into the persecutor big time. Yeah, and she's getting to

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Speaker 2: be the victim here.

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Speaker 4: So I can get my needs met, yes.

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Speaker 2: Which her. The need that she has is to talk

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Speaker 2: about her birthday. And it's working because here we are,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about it. And what I would like to

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Speaker 2: say in regard to that is a long time ago,

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Speaker 2: we had a calendar meeting on how we wanted to

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Speaker 2: roll out episodes, and this is kind of behind the

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Speaker 2: scenes in the Weeds sort of stuff. But Kat's doing

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Speaker 2: a lot of video things and she was like, ooh,

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Speaker 2: our big feeling things episode, it'd be good if we

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Speaker 2: had that done a week in advance. So we've got

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Speaker 2: a lot of time to edit the clips and see

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Speaker 2: what we want to pull for socials and get it

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Speaker 2: on YouTube and whatnot. Yeah, okay, I get that too.

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Speaker 2: Also Houston, that gives him more time to edit as well.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: Turns out Houston has kept his same editing schedule, so

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Speaker 2: I don't think if we alter it it'll affect him

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Speaker 2: at all. But since we're recording a week out, yes,

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Speaker 2: when this airs, Kat's birthday will have passed.

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Speaker 4: And nobody will have cared about it.

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Speaker 2: Nobody said that, but we do have an episode coming

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Speaker 2: out on your birthday, So I thought that Couch Talks

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Speaker 2: episode would be a great time to like bring up

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Speaker 2: your birthday, That's all I was saying. But I think

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Speaker 2: you're onto something because I want to just talk about

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Speaker 2: Stevenson's race. But this will air like way after that.

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Speaker 2: We can talk about our Thanksgiving plans. This is airing

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Speaker 2: way after that because stiring on like December eighth, ninth, whatever, whatever,

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Speaker 2: that Tuesday and ninth, the ninth, and you know, we

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Speaker 2: can revisit this. So now if it's no difference to you,

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Speaker 2: because I know it won't bother Houston, should we just

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Speaker 2: start recording our Tuesday episodes the Monday before. So everything's fresh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we are bringing in the freshest of the fresh.

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Speaker 2: We can talk about our lives in real times. This

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Speaker 2: is like so fresh. This is like right when the

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Speaker 2: vegetables arrive at the grocery store.

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Speaker 4: No, it's right when they pick them off the tree. Yes,

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Speaker 4: the vine.

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Speaker 2: You're the first come to the ground. Yeah, fresh, never frozen,

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Speaker 2: that kind of fresh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Technically our episodes now are a little bit frozen. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we're gonna start giving them to you fresh. And

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Speaker 2: I think that podcasting gives you that flexibility to pre

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Speaker 2: tape in that way. I do come from a very

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Speaker 2: fresh live radio world, so that's probably why in my

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Speaker 2: brain I'm like, we're in the moment, we're doing things,

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Speaker 2: or if that has been like.

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Speaker 4: We don't you want to confuse people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was just I'm I'm down for that.

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Speaker 2: So now we have talked about your birthday, which is

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Speaker 2: what you wanted. Happy birthday, And then we came up

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Speaker 2: with a new plan that I think is going to

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Speaker 2: be better. But now we just have to get on

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Speaker 2: track to do do it well.

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Speaker 1: I will say I really appreciate this plan because this

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Speaker 1: plan really I think was created for my benefit. But

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Speaker 1: I think I've learned I don't start editing the clips

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Speaker 1: until the week of Yeah, so does that matter?

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Speaker 2: So yay, thanks for your patients listeners and walking through

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Speaker 2: that with us. And maybe you did see a little

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Speaker 2: bit of victim mode because Kat was really turning it

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Speaker 2: on and she made me out to be persecutor in

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Speaker 2: full transfer. And see that's not how our conversation really went.

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Speaker 2: Like it was for dramatization purposes, we acted that out.

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Speaker 2: So in the drama triangle, there's the victim, the persecutor,

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Speaker 2: and the the rescuer. Yeah, it's rarely how I show up.

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Speaker 2: So do you think I show up as the rescuer

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Speaker 2: a lot? I mean sometimes I kind of want to

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Speaker 2: control it and fix it, but I've been working on that.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's not bad. Okay, I know we're not bad.

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Speaker 2: I know it's not bad, but I I okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're getting ahead of ourselves.

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Speaker 1: So I'll let you go, okay, because I think that

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about two things before we even

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Speaker 1: get to those roles.

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Speaker 2: So before we proceed, though, is there anything else you

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Speaker 2: would like to say about your birthday? Because you did

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Speaker 2: see you were excited and we didn't really expand on

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Speaker 2: that feeling.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm excited about it and I just wanted everybody

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Speaker 4: to know it's coming up.

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Speaker 2: On December fourth. So well, we'll talk about it in

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Speaker 2: couch Talks, which you heard last Thursday.

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Speaker 1: It probably won't, Yes, we will. So now you're making

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Speaker 1: me talk about my birthday a lot. This is backfiring.

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Speaker 2: Well, I've I planned on talking about your birthday in

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Speaker 2: that episode, but we just haven't recorded it yet.

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Speaker 4: Oh thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you just didn't know that I ruined the surprise.

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Speaker 4: Were you going to bring out a cake and everything.

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Speaker 2: No, I have a half a loaf of banana bread

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Speaker 2: I could bring in. I just wanted to say I

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Speaker 2: didn't really want to talk about my birthday.

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Speaker 1: I think I just wanted to say I'm feeling excited

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Speaker 1: because currently I am feeling excited. That is my true

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Speaker 1: emotion right now, because my birthday is coming and I

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Speaker 1: enjoy my birthday. Although I will say sorry to feel

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Speaker 1: less excited than normal because turning thirty six isn't like ooho,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah.

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Speaker 2: But thirty six is three plus six is nine and

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It's just I'm trying to do something.

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Speaker 4: We've a special number seven to sell my house, wasn't

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Speaker 4: it like.

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Speaker 2: Oh I think eight eight? Oh okay, well that's address numerology.

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Speaker 4: Oh it's different time. Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, I'm just excited. Thank you for the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: talk about it.

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Speaker 2: And what are you doing for your birthday? Because I

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Speaker 2: am going to be sadly out of town.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So my actual birthday birthday, I'm working. Usually I take

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Speaker 1: the day off, but I had to move my schedule

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Speaker 1: around this week, so I have to work. I get

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Speaker 1: to work on my birthday, and then I think I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to dinner with Patrick. But what we do

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Speaker 1: is we don't pick our birthday dinner. We plan for

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Speaker 1: the other person's birthday dinner, and we don't tell them

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Speaker 1: what it is until we show up there.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, I like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I'm really interested to see what he

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Speaker 1: got me because it came in like a month ago

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Speaker 1: and he's been really excited about it. So I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's like it could be one of two things.

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Speaker 1: It could be something really cool, or it could be

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Speaker 1: something he like found on an Instagram ad.

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Speaker 2: So isn't he hiding it in the garage or wasn't

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Speaker 2: he tinkering with it or working on it or something,

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Speaker 2: because didn't he say at some point you thought he

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Speaker 2: was like surprising me with something else, and he was like, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you could go in there, that's your birthday present.

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Speaker 4: No he was. He spent like an hour. He went

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Speaker 4: downstairs and wouldn't let me come downstairs. He was in

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Speaker 4: the living room on his computer and he was like

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Speaker 4: on his computer for like an hour, and then I

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Speaker 4: came downstairs.

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Speaker 1: I was like, can I come down now? And he

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Speaker 1: said yes, but don't come over here. And it was

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Speaker 1: like hiding his computer screen. I'm like, what item that

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Speaker 1: you're ordering from the internet takes you an hour? Maybe

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Speaker 1: he ordered me tickets to something, and like the tickets were.

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Speaker 2: Going on and then also he couldn't get into a

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Speaker 2: corner of the room to where like you couldn't see

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Speaker 2: his screen. I guess not as he running up projector.

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Speaker 1: But then it came in the mail. So it can't

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Speaker 1: be like tickets to something because they wuldn't mail those.

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Speaker 2: What could it be? I don't know. Well, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: find out. Are you already know when this is hearing

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Speaker 2: you already know? That's fun that like I know, but

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but like right now I do know,

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Speaker 2: Like when people are hearing this, you already know.

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Speaker 4: Current me doesn't know, but then like future.

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Speaker 2: Current me does December ninth, you knows.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, well I'll give you guys updated.

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Speaker 1: He's gotten me a couple things off of like Instagram

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Speaker 1: ads that have been like really funny, So hopefully it's not.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to find out, and then I can't

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Speaker 2: wait to celebrate you once I'm back.

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Speaker 4: Well you can just celebrate me now, Okay. Why don't

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Speaker 4: have anything you don't have to give me anything.

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Speaker 1: What Yeah, no, yeah, okay, anyway, I'm done talking about

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Speaker 1: my birthday.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, are you done talking about a birthday?

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Speaker 4: Yes? All right. So we're talking about the drama tangle.

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Speaker 1: And the reason we're doing this is because it's the holidays,

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Speaker 1: and when the holidays come, what comes with the holidays.

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Speaker 2: Drama because you're around family period, and just like in general,

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Speaker 2: there's gatherings, there's stress.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So the drama triangle is a type of unhealthy

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Speaker 1: pattern of communication that all of us engage in. So

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Speaker 1: I say that, I'm gonna say that right now because

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Speaker 1: we have a tendency to think I want to say

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Speaker 1: this kind I mean this very kindly. But like in general,

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Speaker 1: most of us have a tendency to think a little

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Speaker 1: bit more highly of our communication patterns than they probably

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Speaker 1: really are.

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Speaker 4: We all do this. It is universal. So there's no

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Speaker 4: shame in playing this game.

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Speaker 2: I have literally been every character, all three. I've played

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Speaker 2: all three roles. The thing with me is, I know

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Speaker 2: I can be all three. It's just sometimes I don't

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Speaker 2: know exactly in the moment when I'm doing it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like I may.

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Speaker 2: Not have like I'll eventually have the awareness hopefully please,

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Speaker 2: or it may need to be brought to my attention

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Speaker 2: and then I'll be like, oh shoot, but it's not

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Speaker 2: because I know them. I think I am hopefully a

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Speaker 2: little more aware, but I definitely know that I partake

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Speaker 2: and I am I'm just not aware.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we all partake.

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Speaker 1: The lesson in this is how to notice that you're

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Speaker 1: on it, so then you can get off of it,

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Speaker 1: not to like not ever get on it.

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Speaker 4: I will get on it again.

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Speaker 1: You will do it again. Everybody will do it again.

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Speaker 1: So there's that everybody does it.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: Before we talk about the drama triangle itself, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to touch on two things that we've talked about but

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Speaker 1: we haven't really named them in this way that can

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Speaker 1: help you understand the drama trangle a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: And the one is the first one is fact versus story.

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Speaker 1: So when I say fact versus story, I imagine you

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Speaker 1: have some idea of what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, what's the data or the facts and

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Speaker 2: what's absolutely true and then what's the story that you've

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Speaker 2: made up around it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so all of the data in our life

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Speaker 1: can be put in two different categories, fact and story.

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Speaker 1: So Another way to look at that is the content,

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Speaker 1: which is the facts, and the context, which is the

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Speaker 1: stories we create.

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Speaker 4: Around the facts.

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Speaker 1: And most of what we all of us in general,

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about things, most of what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about is the context. We're usually talking in story versus

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Speaker 1: just talking about the facts of our lives. And I

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Speaker 1: want to give an example of this, because it's easy

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Speaker 1: to confuse.

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Speaker 4: Facts and story.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the things that we think are facts

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Speaker 1: are really just stories that we have created to make

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Speaker 1: us feel right about the other stories that we have.

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Speaker 4: I feel like that's a little confusing.

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Speaker 1: But so I was listening to this podcast I think

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Speaker 1: her name, I don't know who the guest name is,

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Speaker 1: but the host was eleas Loewen.

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Speaker 4: Have you heard of her. She's an author and she's

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Speaker 4: also she gives me Brene Brown vibes. She is very

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Speaker 4: smart and like she she's an author and writes books

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Speaker 4: about like just like thought and her own theories and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But she also is a student of work too. So

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Speaker 1: she did this podcast with I.

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Speaker 2: Really want to say. This woman's name is Courtney Smith

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Speaker 2: and it.

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Speaker 1: Is oh wow, yes, okay, and her podcast is called

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Speaker 1: it Pulling the Thread.

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Speaker 4: Yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: Her voice is also really nice to listen to, so

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Speaker 1: if you just like need a soothing voice, which Brene

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Speaker 1: Brown's voice is soothing too.

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Speaker 4: Very I don't know why I brought them up. Oh,

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Speaker 4: I was listening to them.

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Speaker 1: They talked about this too in an episode of her podcast,

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Speaker 1: and Courtney Smith said that usually there's only two facts

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Speaker 1: really to anything we're talking about, and then like the

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Speaker 1: rest we just kind of make up because facts are

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Speaker 1: pretty simple. So I'm going to give an example of

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Speaker 1: what facts versus story could look like and also pay

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Speaker 1: attention to, Like I'm gonna give a fact and then

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give stories that could be there.

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Speaker 4: I want to show that, like, our stories could be

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Speaker 4: really helpful in motivating and encouraging, and our stories can

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Speaker 4: be very drama filled and.

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Speaker 1: Fear based, and based on which one we go with

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Speaker 1: can totally change the trajectory of something with the same

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Speaker 1: exact facts.

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Speaker 2: And I'm gonna ask you maybe to give an example.

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Speaker 1: Of this after you hear me do this, Okay, So

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Speaker 1: listen to what I'm saying, but also think at the

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Speaker 1: same time, got it?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So a fact right now?

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Speaker 1: For me?

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Speaker 4: I have struggled to get pregnant. Period.

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Speaker 1: That's the fact I have not been able to get

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Speaker 1: pregnant on my own fact period. The stories I could

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Speaker 1: create about that, and maybe some of these I have

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Speaker 1: created could be I'm never going to be a mom.

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Speaker 1: My body doesn't work properly, I'm being punished for something

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Speaker 1: that I've done. God doesn't love me. My marriage is

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Speaker 1: going to suffer. I'm going to have extra conflict in

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Speaker 1: my marriage. I'm going to be too old to be

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Speaker 1: a mom. Or I could say things like God is

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Speaker 1: waiting for the perfect timing for me to have a kid,

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Speaker 1: or this is creating so much space for me to

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Speaker 1: be vulnerable and connect with my husband. This is going

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Speaker 1: to strengthen my marriage because of the things we're going through.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to learn so much about my body and

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Speaker 1: understand more about the reproductive system than I ever thought

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Speaker 1: I would.

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Speaker 4: So do you see those two?

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Speaker 1: And I could depending on where I am, because our

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Speaker 1: stories also help us make sense of the world. So

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Speaker 1: we usually have a level of story that we go with.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting ahead of myself. There's two ways we can

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Speaker 1: go with stories. We can go above the line, below

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Speaker 1: the line. Have you heard this okay?

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So above the line are stories that are very empowering, right,

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Speaker 1: and they're motivating, they're helpful, they allow us to be

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Speaker 1: an active participant in our life versus like life happening

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Speaker 1: to us. And then below the line is when I

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Speaker 1: am understanding things through a lens that, like the life

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Speaker 1: is happening to me, very fear based, and they get

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Speaker 1: you kind of stuck. So based on if I'm above

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Speaker 1: the line and below the line is going to shape

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Speaker 1: how I then proceed right and most of the time,

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Speaker 1: most of the time, again this is like take shame

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Speaker 1: out of it. We are wired to go below the line.

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Speaker 1: We're wired to think fear based, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: more of like think about how we were created, right,

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Speaker 1: we had to be aware of our surroundings and what

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Speaker 1: was going on so in order we could protect ourselves.

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Speaker 1: It's the same idea that like fear helps us protect ourselves,

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Speaker 1: therefore we're.

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Speaker 4: Easy to go there.

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Speaker 1: But when we go fear based, we end up cutting

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Speaker 1: ourselves off from any other need outside of keeping myself safe.

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Speaker 1: So learning, exploring, play, connection, all of that doesn't get met.

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Speaker 1: I'm just making sure I'm protected. So I think if

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Speaker 1: I go back to those stories, like the ones that

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Speaker 1: I said first that were examples of being below the line,

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Speaker 1: those would protect me from probably feeling my real feelings. Right, So, like,

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Speaker 1: if God doesn't want me to be a mother, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well then just accept that and like figure something else out.

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Speaker 1: You can't like sit in the sadness that this is happening, right,

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Speaker 1: or this is going to create conflict and struggle in

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Speaker 1: your marriage. Doesn't allow me to actually see that this

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Speaker 1: conflict in our marriage is creating all these.

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Speaker 4: Opportunities for us too. So as I was saying that.

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Speaker 5: Did you have you thought of like a fact? Have

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Speaker 5: you thought of like a fact?

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Speaker 2: Well, something that I've been thinking about recently, and I

403
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 2: don't know if it's ever since my boyfriend said to

404
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Speaker 2: me after I was sharing with him some overwhelm that

405
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Speaker 2: I was having, And I think it's because I know

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Speaker 2: our relationship is progressing and I have some fear around Well,

407
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Speaker 2: I didn't get it right the first time. You know,

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Speaker 2: my first marriage, even though it's not that it was

409
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Speaker 2: wrong though it was a very long marriage and we

410
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Speaker 2: had struggles getting pregnant, but we ended up adopting, so

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Speaker 2: that ended up being a beautiful thing that happened from

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Speaker 2: that relationship and we have a good co parenting relationship now.

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Speaker 2: But I think as my current relationship progresses, I am

414
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Speaker 2: feeling a lot of overwhelm of like, oh my gosh,

415
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Speaker 2: what are we doing? And I need to slow down

416
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Speaker 2: or I have some fear that's popping up. And he

417
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 2: said to me, like, you have somebody right here that

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Speaker 2: cares for you and loves you, and once your kids

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Speaker 2: are doing well, Like he just was going through all

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Speaker 2: these things and I was kind of in a negative mode,

421
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Speaker 2: but he didn't really know what was deep down inside

422
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Speaker 2: of me, and so I shared that as a little

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Speaker 2: preface to the I am divorced period.

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Speaker 4: That's a fact.

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Speaker 2: That's a fact, and that's something I never thought I

426
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Speaker 2: would be ever. And from that, like some of the

427
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 2: things are like, yeah, am I now worthy of another relationship?

428
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Speaker 2: Like yeah, because I wasn't a good wife the first time?

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Speaker 2: You know, that's a story that that's a story. Yeah

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Speaker 2: I was. Yeah, And how could we have adopted these

431
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Speaker 2: kids and then split up? So now we've ruined their

432
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: lives story because you know, when my dad left at nine,

433
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Speaker 2: he ruined my life. I'm just kidding. It, which is

434
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 2: also a story, also a story. Yes, because kids are resilient,

435
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: adults are resilient. I have seen it firsthand and now

436
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 2: been and night co parenting, and the healthiest way possible

437
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 2: for us is showing that we're doing the best by

438
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Speaker 2: our kids. And I think this is better for them

439
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 2: than maybe been an icting together for them. Because then

440
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Speaker 2: that was the line, that story above the line, that's

441
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: above the line. And there's been a lot of healing

442
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Speaker 2: that has been able to take place because of the

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Speaker 2: separation of the divorce. So there is above the line

444
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 2: stuff that has happened, but there are below the line

445
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 2: stuff of like woe is me? Or why did this

446
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 2: have to happen to me instead of for me? And

447
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: I even think of like a silly example, cryocats in

448
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 2: here running the cameras. But we were driving to the

449
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: Tennessee game in Knoxville, and I was trying to get

450
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: there early because we were meeting my boyfriend and he

451
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 2: was tailgating and some friends and he wanted me to

452
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: meet some people. And it's where he went to law

453
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 2: school and his wife that passed away from cancer, she

454
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: went to her undergrad there, so he was with some

455
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: of her friends and I really wanted to get there

456
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: early to see all these people, and we just wasn't

457
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: gonna happen, Like we left later and then we missed

458
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: an exit and it set us back another twelve minutes

459
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, well, now we're really not

460
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 2: going to make it, and I was feeling bumped, and

461
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: then Cavs like she went and did the little U

462
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: turn to turn around and add the twelve minutes, and

463
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 2: she's like, well, I'm just going to look at it

464
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 2: as like that protected us from something like if we

465
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 2: had stayed on that path, like who knows, maybe this

466
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 2: now took us out of which that's just a way

467
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: of looking at it above the line, like who knows?

468
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: Do we know that that is really what happened? No,

469
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 2: but it does help give you a different perspective that

470
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: then allows you to take a deep breath and then

471
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 2: just proceed and be in the moment instead of like, oh,

472
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 2: why does this happen to me? Why do I always

473
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: miss the exits and I'm not paying attention to the map?

474
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: And then you spiral, So that's.

475
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: Very and then that gets you any example, that's a

476
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: great example actually because it will make sense as we

477
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: talk about the drama trangle, because that is an example

478
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: of you be feeling playing this victim role of.

479
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 4: On the drama trangle.

480
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I give all of this pre context

481
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: because we didn't even have to talk about all that

482
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: to talk about the drama trangle.

483
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 4: But I think it is very helpful.

484
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: And when I heard them talk about it on that podcast,

485
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: it gives a whole different way to think about what

486
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: being on the drama trangle means. Because if you can

487
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: understand the stories, and you can understand that you are

488
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: writing stories over and over and over again and you

489
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: were create in all these stories, you can have so

490
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: much more power in one how you think, which is

491
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: then going to.

492
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 4: Shape how you operate throughout the world.

493
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: So if I can take ownership of these stories, I

494
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: can either acknowledge like, yeah, I'm writing these stories and

495
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: they're not so great and that's why I'm sitting here,

496
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: or I can acknowledge like, oh, I'm writing these stories.

497
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: That means I can write them this way and I

498
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: don't have.

499
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 4: To sit here anymore.

500
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: So these are very either way. Even either when you choose,

501
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: at least you're owning it and choosing it. It gives

502
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: us agency. So let's take those two ideas and then

503
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: talk about how the drama triangle works.

504
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 4: And this is actually really simple.

505
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: It's a like sometimes can feel very complex, but this

506
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: pattern of relationship in communication is very simple. It all

507
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: stems from avoiding being direct and asking for your needs

508
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: to be met, which again I'm just gonna keep saying

509
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: this over and over. This is normal, This is normal,

510
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: This is normal. Live in a world that loves to

511
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: avoid any type of conflict, and sometimes asking for our

512
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: needs is conflict. And so even me, like I was

513
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: being kind of funny, but me playing that role of

514
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: victim earlier about like Amy wouldn't let me talk about

515
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: my birthday.

516
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: Which is a story, which is a story.

517
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 4: Yes, it's a story. It's me saying that.

518
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: So I couldn't say I really because I didn't want

519
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: to say I really don't like this schedule anymore because

520
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: I feel like we can't talk about things in real time.

521
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 4: Is there any way we could revisit that?

522
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a low stakes example, but that's an

523
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: example of me being vulnerable.

524
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: And the the reason why it's like that is such

525
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: a simple asset's like no drama. Yeah, So it's like

526
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: if you do that, yeah, you're not in the drama triangle.

527
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 2: That's why it's the it's the perfect name because when

528
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: you avoid the direct line of communication and intentional dialogue,

529
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 2: like we've talked about before in healthy communication, that's when

530
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: the drama comes in.

531
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 4: When the drama comes in the end.

532
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: And while you say it is very normal, I will

533
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: also say it's so helpful. Oh yeah, it's so like

534
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: once you see it and it clicks with certain relationships

535
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: where you understand where you and you can dance right,

536
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: Like you'll probably get to that. But like, once you

537
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: see it, you almost can't unsee it unless sometimes.

538
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 4: You're in it, unless you really don't want to and

539
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 4: you want.

540
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 2: To avoid it. Like I said, sometimes I don't have

541
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: awareness and then I need to be told and I'm like,

542
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 2: oh shoot, yeah, you're right. But I'm glad I have

543
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 2: the knowledge so that I can hopefully I'll remain in

544
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: this space. Like I don't know, I could go on

545
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: some un healthy path and not want the feedback, but

546
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: like right now, I welcome that. Like if you, as

547
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 2: my friend were to say hey me, hey hey me,

548
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 2: hey me, hey me, hey Amy, I really feel like

549
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: right now we're doing a little dance. And that's what

550
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 2: even my kid's therapist, my son had a thervious once

551
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 2: and he always called, don't do the dance. He's inviting

552
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: you to tango and you are just you're You're like, okay,

553
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: what time I'll be there, Let's dance, Let's do it.

554
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: Turn the music up, and I would do the dance.

555
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 2: And I remember too, like Ben and I and we

556
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 2: were working through like we were still married and we

557
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: were going through some stuff with our son and be

558
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 2: I would look at Ben and I'd be like, you're

559
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: doing the dance. The first of don't dance. You're you're

560
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: doing the dance like I. Well, I mean, I would

561
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: do it too, but he would probably call me it's

562
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: it's easier to see it in your other people. So

563
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: if Ben were here, he would say, oh yeah. And

564
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: there's definitely times I would look at Amy and be like, Amy,

565
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 2: stop dancing. You're doing the dance. And once you start

566
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 2: seeing the dance, you're like, Okay, you that dance is

567
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: not cool. But that's where sometimes if we're used to chaos,

568
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 2: so we get a little bit bored. We're kind of

569
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 2: like I kind of feel like dancing.

570
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 4: Which happens, which does happen?

571
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: It happens to guilty, Yeah, guilty in it.

572
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: So as we explain these three roles, and I will

573
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: preface this too, you can do this dance by and

574
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: you can just go around and do all these three

575
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: things by yourself, or you can triangulate somebody and be

576
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: on this triangle with other people. So you can as

577
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: you're listening, you can contextualize this in both ways. There

578
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: is a role in here that is the victim, and

579
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: I feel like it is very important to always give

580
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: the preface that this is different. There are times when

581
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: people are victims of their circumstances, things have happened to them.

582
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: There is a place in time where you are a victim.

583
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: That is not what we're talking about. What we're talking

584
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: about is something that's more closely tied to victim consciousness,

585
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: which is playing the role of victim when there is

586
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: a healthy, easy way out of the situation you're in.

587
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 4: So I just don't want to hear.

588
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to hear that we're victim blaming

589
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: or shaming or anything like that, because these are those

590
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: are two separate things.

591
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: Apples and orange and oranges.

592
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: Yes, I wish there almost was like a different word

593
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: for it. So in the drama triangle, so pattern of

594
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: unhealthy communication, we get on this thing.

595
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 4: We do this dance when we are.

596
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: Avoiding or want to avoid asking for what our needs,

597
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: are asking for our needs because of a fear around

598
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: something usually tied to being vulnerable. And I'm going to

599
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: give some alternate names too that I like a little better.

600
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: So there's the victim, the rescuer, and the persecutor. The

601
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: victim if you're explaining this with families a lot of

602
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: times all or if I'm explaining this with a client

603
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: that is going to take this home and talk about

604
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: it with like her kids or somebody younger, I like

605
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: to give them the name's victim is the helpless baby,

606
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: which I guess we did find another name for it.

607
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: Then there is the rescuer, which is the bossy helper,

608
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: and then the persecutor is the blaming bully, which another

609
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: word for persecutor also is just like the villain, like

610
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: they are the villain in this story. So when you

611
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: hear all of those, is there one that you're like,

612
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: that one sounds nice or that one sounds like is

613
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: there one that you're like, I don't want to do that,

614
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: or is there one that you're.

615
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: More I mean now, earlier we brought up the rescuer

616
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't know that I do

617
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: that one a lot, and you were like hmm, and

618
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: I was like, well, shoot, maybe I do. Which you

619
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: feel free. You have full permission to say whatever you

620
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: want to say about me. I like with the mics on,

621
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: I wish I was more. I think it'd be better

622
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: to be the rescuer out of any of those, like

623
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: I would rather show up as the rescuer, Like, yes,

624
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: bossy helper sounds low, but I'd rather the bossy helper

625
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: than the whiny, helpless baby. You're saying helpless baby, but

626
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I always say helpless they're not. Yeah,

627
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: because they're whiny. Okay, your whiny baby. And then because

628
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: I've been the whiny baby with a entangled in a

629
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: terrible relationship with a bossy helper and I was a

630
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: whiny baby. And then when when I tried to set

631
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: a boundary about it, they turned me into the persecutor.

632
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

633
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: I was so into the drama triangle at the time

634
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: that I could see it clear as day I saw

635
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: it happening. It was unfolding before my eyes, and I

636
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: remember like telling my therapists, I was like, you're not

637
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: gonna believe it. They're gonna believe it. I know for

638
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: a fact that I stayed healthy in my communication and

639
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: I stayed on my side of the street. And the

640
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: response I got back, which you know, the response I

641
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: got back was had flipped me. They immediately went And

642
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: that's why I know you can dance in the triangle.

643
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: It's like they immediately went from helper or rescuer to

644
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: now they're the victim, which I was the victim before.

645
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be, but I was choosing to

646
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: stay there like that was that was our.

647
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: Thing, you didn't want to be. But also there is

648
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: what we called secondary gains. So a lot of times

649
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm talking to somebody and they're talking about a pattern

650
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: of behavior that they're continue to do and they're like,

651
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this anymore.

652
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 4: And I said, okay, well what do you get out

653
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 4: of it?

654
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: They're like, I don't get anything, And then I have

655
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: to ask again, Okay, but like if you did get something,

656
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: what would it be. Because we don't continuously do something

657
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: over and over and over again unless there's something that

658
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: we get.

659
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,959
Speaker 2: Oh, I for sure had gains from it one hundred percent.

660
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: And also I was avoiding, which is a game for

661
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 2: what I really Yeah, like I didn't have to really

662
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: speak up. And I can also see in this relationship

663
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 2: like they would have benefited by speaking up for what

664
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: they needed too, like they were avoiding as well, and

665
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: I hate that for them. We were both doing it well.

666
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that you're saying all of that because

667
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: the reason I kind of like using the other names

668
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: is because all of these roles are in their own

669
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: right victim.

670
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 4: Nobody's actually getting their needs met here. Nobody is.

671
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: We're getting a version of our needs met. We're getting

672
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: that secondary gain. So like I might not get if

673
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: my need is to talk about my birthday, I'm struggling

674
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: with an example right here, but my need is to

675
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: talk about my birthday. By me playing the victim role,

676
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: I get to gain the idea that like I'm not

677
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: doing anything wrong, and it's like all your fault and

678
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: by you you didn't do this, But let's say that

679
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 1: you were, like nobody cares about your birthday, then like

680
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: you don't like you end up having like the blame

681
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: is not on you either. You're like, my hands are clean.

682
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to hear about it. It's not me, you

683
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And like that's kind of me, right,

684
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: I would get my feelings hurt, and then I could

685
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: blame you for being mean to me, and then we

686
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: would have a whole other issue that has nothing to

687
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: do with me talking about my birthday. Right, So let's

688
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: talk about each role individually and then we'll come back.

689
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: And I have a really good example I thought of

690
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: while I was watching a Netflix Christmas movie today.

691
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,719
Speaker 4: So we're gonna come back to that, Okay, mery xmis

692
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 4: have you watched it?

693
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: I have watched it.

694
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so then you're gonna know Okay, actually we might.

695
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quiz you. I'm gonna ask you to place the.

696
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: Roles and this is the one where that Lisha's Silverstone, yes, which.

697
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 4: Like blast from the past, all right, and Melissa johan

698
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 4: Hark yes crazy she is her sister or is her

699
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 4: sister in the movie? Oh that was her sister.

700
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: I thought, so, well, you might not want to quiz

701
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 2: me because it's paying attention. No, no, no, I'm.

702
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: Pretty sure that was her sister. I might not, it

703
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I was doing multiple things anyway. Okay, so

704
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: let's talk about the persecutor first. So the persecutor is

705
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: I think my experience is like they get like the

706
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: bad rap in this triangle, like they're like the mean one.

707
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: They're the ones that are causing the problem essentially, but

708
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: they're also saying, this is not me, this is you.

709
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: So if I'm the persecutor, I'm blaming you for whatever

710
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: the issue is. But if you are not the persecutor,

711
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: you're then blaming me. We're all trying to shift blame.

712
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: So then nobody has to do anything. So if I'm

713
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: blaming you and you're blaming me, then guess what.

714
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: Nothing's getting downe nothing.

715
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 4: I don't have to change and you don't have to change.

716
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: And I think that all also as a reason why

717
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: a lot of times we have the same kind of

718
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: arguments over and over and over again, because if we

719
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: do not realize that we are stuck in a cycle

720
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: of story, we don't realize that we have agency to

721
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: shift that. And I'm not just going to like like, okay,

722
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: never mind, my story is not real if I don't

723
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: realize that I'm in this cycle.

724
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

725
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, But that's why I think talking about the triangle

726
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: is so helpful, because I was in the cycle for

727
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: years but didn't know this concept existed.

728
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 4: Yes, so you're thinking my story, my story, my story.

729
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: I just thought I just thought, well, this is just

730
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: how it is, Like, this is just their relationship, and

731
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: this is our cycle, and this is what we do

732
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 2: and I don't know how to stop it. But then

733
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: once you realize where you each are and the roles

734
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: that are being played, then you do have the ability

735
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 2: to stop it. And sometimes it might be too gone

736
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 2: to where it's like yeah, but that's a different conversation. Yeah,

737
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 2: it's just interesting. Like, so I'm excited to hear more

738
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: about what you have to say about it, because I haven't.

739
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: I guess I've probably first learned about it three or

740
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: four years ago.

741
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 4: You've known about it for longer.

742
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 2: No, oh, No, I learned about it in my couple's

743
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,479
Speaker 2: therapy with Ben. Maybe I just that feels so long ago,

744
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: and it was when we were separated, we were not

745
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: still together, so it was twenty twenty one.

746
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: So the persecutor, they're like the bad cop essentially, they're angry,

747
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: they're very blamey. It's all your fault, the persecutor. Also,

748
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: like if there's ever any like gossip or like trash

749
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: talking or bad talking gossip in the sense of like

750
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: in an ill intentioned way, that's a persecutor role. Like

751
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: that's some of your being a persecutor if you're if

752
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: you're doing that. So if you are with your if

753
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: there is an argument within your friend group and you're

754
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: off gossiping and talking about how SUSICQ did X y

755
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: Z and can you believe it, you're being a persecutor.

756
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: You are blaming another person for an issue or conflict

757
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: that you have versus going and speaking your needs and

758
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: talking that out.

759
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: So I mentioned earlier, since you're talking about being the

760
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 2: actual persecutor, that I was then put into the persecutor

761
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: role when I set a boundary, but I wasn't actually

762
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: the persecutor. So that like talk about that because I

763
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: have not, I don't know that I've ever talked that

764
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 2: through like how I I wasn't, but I was made

765
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: to be with the response that I got and the

766
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: the story that was now being told for their laid

767
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: me out as a persecutor. And it's just because I

768
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: shifted the well.

769
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 4: Because you're fighting over being the victim.

770
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: I messed with the game.

771
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: So that person doesn't want to be the persecutor, so

772
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: they're making you the persecutor. But then you, by saying

773
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: they made me the persecutor, is then making that person

774
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: the persecutor because you guys are both fighting to be

775
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: the victim, even though you wouldn't actually admit that in

776
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: the moment.

777
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: To be clear, I never said to I never responded

778
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: in a way. I'm just sharing that with you. I

779
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 2: never said you're making me the persecutor. I never know that, But.

780
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: In your head that's happening. Does that make sense? Yeah?

781
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: What the And I'm explaining this. You have to think

782
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: about this in two contexts. You're on this triangle by

783
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: yourself and you're just traveling around, and then also you

784
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: can be on this trigle with other people.

785
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 4: Okay, so the persecutor is.

786
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: Somebody who is never going to do anything to fix

787
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: or solve the problem, but they are going to criticize

788
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: and find a problem.

789
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 4: It's not me, it's you. That's what they say.

790
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 2: That's a persecuter.

791
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, Now nobody wants to be that one for sure.

792
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 1: That's the one that people are like, ah, that never

793
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: be me.

794
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 2: No.

795
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: We also again we do this to ourselves as well,

796
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: so that's persecuter. Then we have the rescuer. But you

797
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: also usually have like a start gate position, so there's

798
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: usually a role that you gravitate towards and then no

799
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: matter what, once you're on this, you're going to do

800
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: it all. So that's just to take some Like if

801
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're like, I don't want

802
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: to be that way, just take a deep breath and

803
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: release the shame. Because if you do one of these,

804
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: you do all of them, and all of us do them,

805
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: so nobody is alone.

806
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: One ticket to drama town. Please. So you're saying, like

807
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: when we when we hop on the ride, we're that

808
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: we typically oh, start with, we have a station we

809
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: typically go to first.

810
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 4: It's a start gate. It's like easy for me to

811
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 4: get on in that.

812
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: I mean, mine's for sure, victim, Okay, I can hop

813
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: on there real quick.

814
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: I was going to say, I feel like you are

815
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: in my experience of you, which you can also this

816
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: could be different in different experiences, but like in my

817
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: experience of you, I feel like it's I've seen you

818
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: easier to jump on in the rescuer.

819
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: Well, that's apparent because you said that earlier about me,

820
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: and I'm like, really, tell me more.

821
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 4: I just see you in that context.

822
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: But also like maybe you were already on the triangle

823
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: and I just see you in that rescue position more.

824
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 4: That makes sense. I get on this triangle usually. Well,

825
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 4: now that I'm.

826
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: Like revisiting this, I used to always say, like it's

827
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: easy for me to get on as the rescuer. I

828
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: think I honestly can get on as the persecutor pretty easily.

829
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: No comments, I don't think. I don't. I think from

830
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 2: stories that you tell me, I love to blame somebody.

831
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 4: I see that.

832
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not because I've experienced it from you.

833
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 4: Okay, and I love to blame somebody, you know what

834
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 4: I mean.

835
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you don't like being told what to do?

836
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 4: Yeah? Ever, yeah, so it's like, can you believe this?

837
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but then you like come back around, You're rational.

838
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 4: It's just what I'd like to get on that trend

839
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 4: for a little bit. Yeah, So back to the rescuer.

840
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 4: The rescuer plays like the good cop to the persecutor's

841
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 4: bad cop. They give codependent vibes.

842
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 2: Oh that's what you thought that was me. I didn't

843
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 2: say I do sometimes to give codependent vibes.

844
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 4: And they end up playing like a martyr role.

845
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've been a martyr too.

846
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

847
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: So they forego all of their needs to solve somebody

848
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: else's needs.

849
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 4: Is that okay, so you're relating.

850
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: Uh, this was more so in my marriage. Uh, at

851
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: the end of it. And I won't ever forget what

852
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 2: one of my therapists said to me, Like I I

853
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: was like, I can't, I can't do that, like I,

854
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: I will just stay in this forever. And then she

855
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: said to me, oh, you sweet martyr. And I remember

856
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: I was pacing in my backyard at my other house,

857
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 2: like I remember exactly, and she has an accent and

858
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 2: she goes, oh you sweet Mata, and I was like, huh,

859
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: it almost just clicked. It clicked, and I was like,

860
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: and that's what I either one of us would have

861
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 2: been doing in that situation. I mean been too. And

862
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 2: this isn't just all specific too. My marriage. There was

863
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: a lot of things happening, but I realized like, oh wow, okay, yeah,

864
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 2: I need to there's a lot to make an actual

865
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 2: choice for myself, not just for somebody.

866
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: Else, which I was gonna say, like, there's a lot

867
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: of guilt involved in the rescuer and you use that

868
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: on yourself, like I feel guilty for choosing myself. The

869
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: problem is we cannot spend our lives fixing other people's problems,

870
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: and a lot of times when we're doing this, that

871
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: other person doesn't really want their problem to be fixed

872
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: because if you give them a real solution, then that

873
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: victim has to actually do something, and we haven't gotten

874
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: exactly to the victim, but the victim doesn't actually.

875
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 4: Want to do anything.

876
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: They want to play the victim because if I am

877
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: the victim, there's nothing I can do. Sorry, But if

878
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: you give them a solution that's debunked, so they'll find

879
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: an excuse. So then you'll hustle or then you'll become

880
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: the persecutor because you're like, I gave you a solution,

881
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: and duh duh, du du don this is your fault

882
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: and you're here because of blah blah blah. So not

883
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: that you would say it like that, but that's how

884
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: you can switch really easy. And I can I get that,

885
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: like if I'm working really hard to help you in

886
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: some way and you keep giving me excuse out of

887
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: excuse after excuse after excuse, I'm going to get exhausted

888
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: and frustrated and angry and resentful, and then i might

889
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: lash out at you, and then I'm going to blame

890
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: you for me feeling like this, even though I could

891
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: just be like, okay, you don't want my help, bye bye.

892
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: But that's really hard because of the stories we have

893
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: around your responsibility, maybe even to this person or the

894
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: situation or the world. So rescuer is a tough role

895
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 1: because you really feel like you are doing the right thing,

896
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: but you're not helping, and you're definitely not helping yourself.

897
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: I love that she called you a sweet martyr.

898
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 2: Oh you sweet Mata, and you're like, wait what, Okay,

899
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: it's weird. It's interesting right when I thought back to

900
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: that story, which I mean, I've told it before, but

901
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 2: that was a few years ago for sure, and I'm

902
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: instantly transported to like talking on the phone, pacing in

903
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: my backyard. Ye, that exact conversation with her. And there's

904
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: not many times I can remember like exactly where I

905
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 2: was and what I was doing when I had a

906
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: specific conversation you.

907
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 4: Know well, and also like this is because again we're

908
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 4: all fighting to be the victim.

909
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: It's some regard. When you're in that space, you also

910
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: can flip. You can flip to the persecutor. You also

911
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: can flip to be the victim of like I've tried

912
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 1: everything and nothing works, and then you become this helpless

913
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 1: baby or the whiny baby as you would say, when

914
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: really there's a solution but you just don't want to

915
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: take it.

916
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 4: Okay, So then we have the victim. And when you

917
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 4: hear that word victim again, victim consciousness, I'm not talking

918
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 4: about actual victims. What kind of comes to mind for you? Like,

919
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 4: what feelings do you get when you think about the victim?

920
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 4: What things pop into your head? Does your body react?

921
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I can only speak to a personal experience

922
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 2: where I feel like, because you have to understand when

923
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: I had the Drama Triangle revelation, victim mode was definitely

924
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 2: where I was dancing a lot. So my brain keeps

925
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: going to this example, so I'm just gonna roll with it.

926
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,479
Speaker 2: I it was definitely in a role. You're in a role,

927
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: like it was part of the dynamic. So we're playing

928
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: a part. Yes, like it would be very laying it

929
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 2: all out, like all the things that are going on,

930
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: like sort of trauma dumping in a way, but taking

931
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: up a lot of that space. But I thought that's

932
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: what I needed to do for and then there would

933
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: be like rescuing that would happen, and then that was

934
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 2: that that you know so much, So like I wasn't

935
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: able to show up for that person and really any

936
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 2: other way, even when I kept trying, like I would try,

937
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: or I would think I'd be trying, but that wasn't

938
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 2: my role. So I don't even think they thought that's

939
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: what I wanted, but deep down I did. And sometimes

940
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 2: I would hang up the phone. I'd be like, why

941
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: did I just talk about myself for twenty minutes and

942
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: all that was going on, because there was a lot happening,

943
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: But I just would is that making sense of? Like

944
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: that was the victim role for me, of laying it

945
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 2: all out, of all the things, and then there was

946
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 2: some swooping in to help so that fixed the situation

947
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: or make it better. And I don't know that I

948
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: necessarily needed that. I wasn't looking, but it was just.

949
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 4: But what were you looking for?

950
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 2: Connection.

951
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: So you named a story in there, like in order

952
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: to be connected to this person, I had to be

953
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: this little baby bird who needed somebody to fix them

954
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: or always I'm making the stuff up, but like always

955
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: had a problem that needed to be talked out. I

956
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,399
Speaker 1: have to do this in order to have connection in life.

957
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't fun for me, Like I am aware

958
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,479
Speaker 2: of it. You have it thought I wasn't enjoying it either,

959
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: Like it was very perplexing to me. So then it

960
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: was also exhausting, and I'm sure they were exhausted too,

961
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 2: and they weren't getting needs met. And so you're right.

962
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: It's like if you have the awareness, then you can

963
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 2: we could have fixed it maybe a long time ago,

964
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: but then it got to where we couldn't fix it.

965
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you're having this story around like in

966
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: order to be connected to this person, I have to

967
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 1: play this role.

968
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 4: It doesn't feel very good, but you were still like

969
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 4: the story.

970
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: That you created around the like the facts of what

971
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: we're going on in your life was below the line

972
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: example versus just being able to own this or I've

973
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: created this story. It doesn't have to be this way.

974
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: What would happen if I said to this person. I'm

975
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: feeling stuck and this relationship is really important to me. Therefore,

976
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: I think I need X, Y Z and name something.

977
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: Who knows it's We don't know what would have happened,

978
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: but it would have given you an opportunity to get

979
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: off of this triangle, to get out of this dance

980
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: where you even if that relationship didn't end up being

981
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: what you wanted it to be, you didn't have to

982
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: keep playing that game anymore.

983
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,879
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, there's a lot I learned in my that

984
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: couple's therapy that just helped in a lot of areas

985
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: in my life.

986
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the victim is it's I mean, they're

987
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: all interesting roles because essentially we don't want to be

988
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: any of them, but like the victim is the one

989
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: that we all are, Like I don't want to be that,

990
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: but you really, subconsciously really are wanting to be you know.

991
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 2: So you know the part of me that gets real defensive,

992
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 2: isn't that my victim mode?

993
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 4: Yeah? So see, well it depends.

994
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: The defensiveness can also be like persecutor, like it's not

995
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: my fault, it's your fault because it's.

996
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: I don't know that my defensiveness is.

997
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: Well your defensiveness. I think in general, defensiveness could be

998
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:56,720
Speaker 1: different things.

999
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:01,439
Speaker 2: My defensiveness is like we use that dow water example too,

1000
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: Like I wasn't really saying like, it's not my fault,

1001
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: but she was like, would you would you like some

1002
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: water for your dog. Now we're going back a few months.

1003
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: People don't even know this story because that's a totally

1004
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: different episode, but a woman offered water to my dog.

1005
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 2: But I was embarrassed and thought she was like judging

1006
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: me for having my dog out on hot day, so

1007
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: I wouldn't accept the water. She walked away and I

1008
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 2: was with my boyfriend and I was just like, oh,

1009
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: she's probably like, you idiot, why'd you bring your dog?

1010
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 2: And he's like, she didn't say that, she just offered

1011
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: you water. Like so I wasn't saying it's not your

1012
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: fault or it's not my fault, it's your fault. Like

1013
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: my defensiveness wasn't that I was just getting defensive of

1014
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 2: like the people I get defensive that I'm being judged.

1015
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 4: Nobody was judging you exactly. Yeah.

1016
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: I think defensiveness can show up in different ways depending

1017
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: on Yeah, like how it's who you are and how

1018
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: it's coming up in that example. Defensiveness in general doesn't

1019
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: just mean this, but good callback shout out, shout out.

1020
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,919
Speaker 2: Should a lady who tried to should To this day,

1021
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: I will say, I should have taken the water. I'm sorry, Kara.

1022
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: Well now you have learned, so don't get on this

1023
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: triangle with yourself.

1024
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 4: Give yourself grace. So these are all the roles.

1025
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: Okay, before I haven't confused anybody.

1026
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: Well, this is something that like is so simple that

1027
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: it's so confusing, if that makes any sense at all.

1028
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 1: And it's confusing because we don't like when we think

1029
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: about this, then we're doing the like dance and we're

1030
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: making all these connections. So if you like would write

1031
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: it out, it would make perfect sense. I did this,

1032
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: then this happened. Then I did this, then this happened,

1033
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: and you would be able to see it very clearly.

1034
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 2: And I would say, if you're just now taking this

1035
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 2: in and you realize it in a relationship, like I

1036
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 2: don't know that right away, I would go to the

1037
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: person and be like, we're in a drama triangle. You're

1038
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: the persecutor and I'm the rescuer. You know, I'm the

1039
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 2: helper and you're mean, like or you know, like just

1040
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 2: taking like it, talking about it in a thoughtful way

1041
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: of like, hey, I just started thinking about I listened

1042
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 2: to this podcast. I just started thinking about this, and

1043
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: I'm just reflecting upon some of our latest interactions and like,

1044
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: what are what's your experience with it, because here's what

1045
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 2: I am and I would I feel like we might

1046
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: be dancing a little and I don't. I want to

1047
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 2: see if you feel the same way and that way

1048
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: it's inviting them into it and not that like you've

1049
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: listened to this podcast and come to all these conclusions

1050
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: and now you know everything, or if you are involved

1051
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 2: in therapy, like take this to your therapist and see

1052
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: like if like you said, taking down the notes, like

1053
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 2: that's what I had many many many sessions after my

1054
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: couple's therapy with Ben, with my personal therapist about my

1055
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: roles and how I was showing up. Yeah, and I

1056
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: tried to carefully talk through it before, like.

1057
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: You just well, and you don't have to because you're

1058
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,959
Speaker 1: going to notice this pattern with people that you don't

1059
00:51:58,960 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: have intimate relationship.

1060
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I don't. I'm so glad you

1061
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: said that. I'm so glad you said that because I

1062
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: made it like you should talk to people about it.

1063
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: But to clarify, there are so many people I am

1064
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 2: and have been in dances with and they don't know, right, So, yeah,

1065
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: they may know, and maybe they're not saying anything. Yeah,

1066
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: but like I know that I know, but it's not

1067
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: worth a conversation.

1068
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: Well, there's ways to kind of handle this without having

1069
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: to have that conversation. Now, I will say, like, if

1070
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: you have a partner or a really close friend, or

1071
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: you're really you have a really close relationship with a

1072
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: boss or something like that, and it feels safe and

1073
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: natural to talk about this thing, that talk about it,

1074
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: because I think there's so much you can learn from

1075
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: having two people communicating about it, and there are ways

1076
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: that you can take all.

1077
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 4: Of this drama triangle.

1078
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: Really the purpose of it is to show you that

1079
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: you can take ownership of your own life and you

1080
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: can ask for your needs to be met, because once

1081
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: you get I don't know if I said this, but

1082
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: the reason a lot of people are fighting to be

1083
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: the victim is because the victim is the one that

1084
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: gets their needs met without asking for them to be met.

1085
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: The reason a lot of people are fighting to be

1086
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: the victim is because the victim is the one that

1087
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: gets their needs.

1088
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 4: Met without asking for them to be met.

1089
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: So like, duh, I want to be that again, these

1090
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: all have versions of victimness in them.

1091
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 2: Question, can the rescuer be getting certain needs met if

1092
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: they have a I want to be involved and fix everything?

1093
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 4: Yes, but mentality they can.

1094
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: And also remember that rescuer is always going to end

1095
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: up as the victim no matter I don't know if

1096
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: I said this either. No matter what you start as,

1097
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: you're going to end up as the victim if you

1098
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: don't get off of this triangle. Okay, at some point

1099
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: now that will shift again, but like you're going to

1100
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: do that. But yeah, I think when you're talking about

1101
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,800
Speaker 1: rescuing and somebody being like a martyr, there is something

1102
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: that's the secondary gang we get right, so or this

1103
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: like fulfillment.

1104
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,919
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of people that love, like if.

1105
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: You're a two like a helper, But remember the when

1106
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 1: you're the rescuer and you're helping the victim, the victim

1107
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: doesn't actually want help, right, so the fulfillment doesn't usually come,

1108
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: and that's why you then move.

1109
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 2: Then you get exhausted, and then that's and then you

1110
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: start giving the silent treatment.

1111
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, I started speaking both.

1112
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 2: That's what happened to me.

1113
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 4: So I also probably do that too. I love a

1114
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 4: good silent treatment.

1115
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: So I was, well, I was talking about you. So

1116
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 1: there's a couple of ways to get off of this triangle.

1117
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: And is there Before I go into that, Oh no,

1118
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: before I go into that, let's talk about Mary x meus.

1119
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 4: That's the name of the movie, right, Mary.

1120
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, because it's she's having Christmas with her ex.

1121
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 1: Okay, So spoiler alert, if you're waiting to watch this

1122
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: movie that you're gonna have no idea how it ends

1123
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: because it's very different than every other Christmas holiday movie.

1124
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: Then skip forward sixty seconds.

1125
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 2: No, that was sarcasm yea too. Also, it's been out

1126
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,479
Speaker 2: for a few weeks on Netflix, so I.

1127
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 4: Thought it was brand new. I also thought maybe it

1128
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: was like an older.

1129
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,959
Speaker 2: Movieh it was one of the first releases, so maybe

1130
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: two weeks. Well, by the time this airs.

1131
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: If you haven't watched it yet, that's we can't do

1132
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: anything about that. So thinking about that movie, do you

1133
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: have any idea of why I would bring that up?

1134
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: Think about the two main characters, the husband and the

1135
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: ex husband ex wife.

1136
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 2: Will you learn at some point that she put off

1137
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 2: some of her dreams and that she wanted to go

1138
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 2: to Boston or something, and that like she seemed like

1139
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: a rescue.

1140
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 4: Yes, so it's this couple.

1141
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: There's a doctor and then she was I think architect

1142
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: or something in that realm there're she had these big

1143
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: dreams to have this big career, so she moved with

1144
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: her husband to the small town. She gave up her

1145
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: dreams to build a life with this man, and then

1146
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: he ended up being kind of addicted to his job

1147
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: and would miss out a lot of stuff. So they

1148
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: end up getting divorced. And then you find throughout the

1149
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 1: movie that like neither of them really wanted to get divorced.

1150
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: They both were still in love with each other, but

1151
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: she was resentful of him because she didn't speak what

1152
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: she really needed, and he was resentful of her because

1153
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: she was doing things that bothered him.

1154
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 4: But he never really shared any of that.

1155
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: And actually, I can't spoil this movie because I'm only

1156
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:44,439
Speaker 1: halfway through.

1157
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: Oh, so you don't even know if I sure know

1158
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: what happens.

1159
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 4: But I have a feeling I know what happens.

1160
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: And that's a perfect example of if she would have

1161
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: actually said, hey, I need you to like be home

1162
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: more and I want to go back to work, and

1163
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: is there a way we can figure this out? Who knows,

1164
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: they could have stayed together in the end, and maybe

1165
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: they maybe they ended up doing that. And if he

1166
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: would have said, hey, there's a couple of things that

1167
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 1: you do at home that make me not want to

1168
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: come home and that's why I'm working more, she could

1169
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: have taken a look in the mirror and looked at

1170
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: what she was doing and say, oh, I can make

1171
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: some concessions here so we can both get our needs met.

1172
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: But they never had that conversation, so they just got

1173
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: divorced and then they were resentful of each other and

1174
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: that's a perfect and she blamed him and he blamed her,

1175
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: and really it was they were both doing things.

1176
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: Have you watched all her fault on Peacock?

1177
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 4: No, okay, I haven't, because I'll Peacock.

1178
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: I've started it and this isn't going to be spoiling anything.

1179
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to tell you which couple I'm

1180
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 2: talking about. But I just watched a scene where a

1181
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 2: husband and there's multiple husbands in the show. She works

1182
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: and he works when she is at home and with

1183
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 2: the kids and you know, doing laundry and cooking, taking

1184
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 2: care of the kids. She's always on the clock. Whenever

1185
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: she's out doing something and he's home with the kids,

1186
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: he's like, when are you back? Like when am I done?

1187
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: And I just I was just thinking of relationships and

1188
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: dynamic and how awful that would be with someone. And

1189
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, this is reality for some

1190
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: people that the wife feels like she's always on, like

1191
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: she never when she's home with the kids. She doesn't

1192
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 2: call the husband and say when am I off so

1193
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 2: I can go do something else. And it was interesting because.

1194
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and is there is she playing that role of

1195
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: the rescuer and she's well.

1196
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 2: Care definitely paused and was like took a deep breath

1197
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 2: and I didn't really know where she was going to

1198
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 2: go with it, and you could tell she just didn't

1199
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 2: want the conversation or confrontation at the time, and she

1200
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: was like, you know what, You're right. He's like, well,

1201
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: you knew when you married me that I have to

1202
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 2: have my me time and that I have to go

1203
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 2: do my things, and that I'm better when I've got,

1204
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: you know, time with my friends and this and that,

1205
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 2: and so she took a deep breath and she was like,

1206
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 2: you're right. I should have told you that I had

1207
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 2: this going on. I'll be home as soon as I can,

1208
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: and you know, marriages work and we will get through this.

1209
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: And then she hung up, and I'm like, Dakota Fanning, Oh,

1210
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: is that is that her? I just said whose role

1211
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 2: it was? But that's not giving anything. You're not giving

1212
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 2: anything away. I just said I was going to say

1213
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: which couple it was, but I'm not giving anything away.

1214
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with anything. They could delete

1215
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 2: that scene and the show would be fine.

1216
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 4: We believe you, Thank you. I didn't know she was

1217
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 4: in it. I knew it was the girl from Succession.

1218
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Shiv.

1219
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 4: I never watched that show. I couldn't get into it.

1220
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: What I love Succession, not.

1221
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 4: Get into it.

1222
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: I watched three episodes and I was like, this is

1223
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: boring snooze. I know I'm an outlier, okay, but I

1224
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: spoke my needs to Patrick and I said I can't

1225
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: do another one, okay, and he watched it on his own. Okay,

1226
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: So how to get off of this triangle? So I'm

1227
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: going to give you options here. But my first option

1228
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: is four parts. Notice set you're on it. This is

1229
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: when you're on it with somebody else. Notice that you're

1230
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: on it. Number one hardest part. You might need some

1231
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: feedback or after you kind of if you are reevaluating

1232
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: kind of your behaviors, you can you know, draw some

1233
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: diagrams and figure that out. Two, you need to lower

1234
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: your expectations for other people. When I say that what

1235
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: comes up, you kind of made a face where you like,

1236
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: dang it or that makes sense.

1237
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: I didn't make a face anything. Really, I didn't think, oh.

1238
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I'm like, okay, check saying it well, because

1239
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: most people when they hear that, they're like, I don't

1240
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: want to do that. I don't want to lower my

1241
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: expectations for people. I want people to rise to the occasion.

1242
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 2: Oh no, No, I think that I have plenty of

1243
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: practice of like sometimes just not having oh.

1244
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 4: Any like redunis quite a few times.

1245
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think expectations or future resentment at times.

1246
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 2: So not that I don't have standards for things in

1247
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 2: life or expectations for certain things. But then maybe it's

1248
01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 2: my co parenting. Like no, I think that we have

1249
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 2: to ben and I started having tons of expectations in

1250
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 2: certain ways. Like that's where we had a little mantra

1251
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 2: of like, okay, expectations or future resentments. So instead of

1252
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 2: just expecting or assuming, like, we're gonna ask and we're

1253
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: gonna talk about it.

1254
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: And also we have to realize that we are not

1255
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: everybody else, and so the things that make sense in

1256
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: our head and the things that like seem best case

1257
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,919
Speaker 1: scenario in our head that work in our head aren't

1258
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: the things that work in everybody else's heads because of

1259
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: the stories that we have versus the stories other people have.

1260
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 1: So lowering expectations isn't like, Okay, go marry somebody you hate,

1261
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: Like that's not what we're talking about. We're The point

1262
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: of this is when I can lower expectations and not

1263
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: expect this for people to fall in line with how

1264
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: I want them to act all the time, I then

1265
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: can start to appreciate the things about them that I

1266
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: couldn't see before because I was so resentful. So if

1267
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: I know somebody is really bad, I'm gonna use me

1268
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: as an example. I'm really bad at remembering your birthday

1269
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: the date, I know the month, and I always end

1270
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: up doing something, but I can't seem to get that

1271
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: date right, seventeenth, nineteenth, It's March eighteenth.

1272
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: To be clear. To be clear, Cat's birthday is December fourth, Okay,

1273
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: but that has come and gone. Okay, I'm not good.

1274
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 2: It is not just sad.

1275
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 4: I'm not good at remembering.

1276
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 2: And that's okay. Like I don't hold I don't have

1277
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: an expectation of you to I know where you stand

1278
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: and that you care about me and that you celebrate

1279
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: me like that's not also too, birthdays have been hard

1280
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 2: for me. I have Shannon, I have a calendar, Like

1281
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 2: there's things in the last five years that I have

1282
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 2: implemented in my life that helped me. But before that,

1283
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 2: before calendar, and then like have and even when it

1284
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 2: comes to the calendar, like having like my heighty eat

1285
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 2: to sit there and enter everybody's birthday reoccurring year after year.

1286
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 2: That's something that I will give Shannon credit for in

1287
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 2: that had I needed help organizing my life because of

1288
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 2: my We both have ADHD. Maybe that's why I can

1289
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 2: empathize with you and I give grace because I have

1290
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 2: been that person and it feels horrible forgetting horrible, and

1291
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 2: I have been on the receiving end of no grace

1292
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 2: with it at all, like just anger, disappointment valid, valid,

1293
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 2: But I know my heart and I'm like, gosh, you

1294
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 2: I really do care about this person. I can't believe

1295
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 2: that that slipped my mind. And that's probably why I

1296
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 2: don't take it out on you, like I get it.

1297
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna get wrapped up.

1298
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: You're not going to make me that prosecutor or a villain. No,

1299
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: you're not getting on the triangle with me. No. And

1300
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: another example that people might relate a little bit more too,

1301
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: is like love languages. So if you're in a relationship

1302
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: where like somebody in your family they have a different

1303
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: love language than you, Like if somebody is really bad

1304
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: with words, but they are a good gift giver.

1305
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 4: If you don't lower your spectations, you're.

1306
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: Like, well, I'm an affirmation person and you have to

1307
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: tell me, xyz, you will get on this triangle every

1308
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: single time you talk to them, because you won't be

1309
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: able to receive their love. But if I can lower

1310
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:12,959
Speaker 1: expectations in the sense in okay, I'm going to meet

1311
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: you with where you are and this is how you

1312
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: show affection and love is gift giving. I can receive

1313
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: that and I can actually appreciate so many things about you.

1314
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: Now that I'm not blinded by all this resentment, that

1315
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: might fit a little bit more help.

1316
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 4: Okay, so you have noticed that you're on it.

1317
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: You're lowering your expectations. Then you're creating boundaries. So at

1318
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: the same time, where like I am learning expectations and

1319
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: able to see all this stuff, I also might want

1320
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: to protect myself. So I need to create bound and

1321
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 1: these are internal boundaries. You don't have to tell the

1322
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: people that you have these boundaries. So if I'm a

1323
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: words of affirmation person and I really need to hear,

1324
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: I go to this person when I'm struggling or I'm sad,

1325
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: or I need reassurance, or I just need to be validated,

1326
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: but they don't know how to do that. I need

1327
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: to create an internal boundary for myself. This is not

1328
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: who I go to for that. I might go to

1329
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 1: them for celebration in other areas, or I might go

1330
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: to them if I need help picking out a gift

1331
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: for somebody or something like that. There are other things

1332
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: that I can do and go to them. And I

1333
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: can see that more clearly now that I'm not blinded

1334
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: by this resentment over here.

1335
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 4: But I have to be smart if it's.

1336
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: That whole idea of don't go to the hardware store

1337
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: looking for a loaf of bread. If this person does

1338
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: not have bread, right, I can't keep asking them for it,

1339
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: because then that's my fault.

1340
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 4: So I need to create a boundary.

1341
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: And when I'm hungry and I want a loaf of bread,

1342
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: I can't walk into the hardware store.

1343
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 2: You gotta go to the grocery.

1344
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: You got to go to the grocery store. And that grocery

1345
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: store might be a different person. And because of all that,

1346
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 1: because that's a lot of work, noticing you're on it,

1347
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 1: and like acknowledging our shortcomings, lowering expectations, and creating boundaries

1348
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 1: is a lot of work. I say it really simply.

1349
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: It's a lot of work, because that's.

1350
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 4: A lot of work. The fourth thing is self care.

1351
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: Simple, just like, be kind to yourself, give yourself grace,

1352
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: soothe yourself in some way. I can say this to

1353
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: you really simply. But the act of learning expectations and

1354
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: cutting myself off from going to somebody and asking for

1355
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: something that I've really wanted my whole life, that's hard

1356
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: work emotionally, and that's going to take a toll on us,

1357
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 1: so I need to then care for myself. Yeah, that's

1358
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: if you're on this trangle with somebody else.

1359
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 4: Else.

1360
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: If you're on the tragle with yourself, it's a little

1361
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: bit more simple, and the solution is really to notice

1362
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: you're on it and to reevaluate the stories we're making

1363
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: out of the context and look for some solutions that

1364
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: might be above the line, which is very similar to

1365
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: that question that we come back to very often.

1366
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 4: What does this make possible? Or what big thing is

1367
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 4: this preparing me for?

1368
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:51,919
Speaker 2: Those?

1369
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 4: Are those two.

1370
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: Questions are above the line questions that can help us

1371
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: reframe a fact.

1372
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 2: What in general is above the li? What? What versus why?

1373
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1374
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, what versus why? It's like the you know,

1375
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 2: I used example of Cat saying that when we missed

1376
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 2: the exit, and she's like, this is keeping us from

1377
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 2: an accident. There's the burnt toast. Is it called the

1378
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 2: burnt toast theory or the burnt toast?

1379
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 4: I don't know. You're teaching me something.

1380
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. It just popped into my head. Well,

1381
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe we'll end on this note. I

1382
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: feel like maybe it's something like you burnt your toast.

1383
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 6: And it's just workshopping this right now, and it delayed

1384
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 6: your morning, you know, but like not why did I

1385
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 6: burn my toast?

1386
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 2: Maybe like more of like what is this protecting me from?

1387
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 2: Like my burn? The burnt toast.

1388
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 4: Is giving me late?

1389
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 2: So then maybe I missed. I don't get around thing

1390
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 2: like that, like it's the burnt I thought it was

1391
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 2: a whole thing. Sorry, I thought you might know what

1392
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 2: it is, because like literally it's just like burnt toast

1393
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: just pop into my head. Isn't that weird? Let me

1394
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 2: look it up, burnt toast, bury toast theory. Let me

1395
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 2: see if it's like actually a thing. It's probably not. Brain,

1396
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be so mad at you. The burnt toast

1397
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:18,480
Speaker 2: theory is a psychological coping mechanism that suggests minor inconveniences

1398
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 2: like burning your toast may prevent larger misfortunes. My brain

1399
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 2: did not do me dirty.

1400
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 4: Yeah you knew it.

1401
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: I got there. Okay, thank you, brain, You are awesome, wonderful.

1402
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:32,679
Speaker 2: But like the whole time you're talking, all of a sudden,

1403
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 2: I was picturing my toaster and burnt toast, like I

1404
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 2: don't And then I was like, I think there's a

1405
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 2: burnt toast theory, and then I just said it without

1406
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 2: really knowing You're.

1407
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 4: Hoping that I could pick that up.

1408
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 2: And you'd be like, oh, yes, Let'm talking about the

1409
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 2: burnt toast theery. Maybe I'm also thinking about it because

1410
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 2: you're like, can't get a loaf of bread at the

1411
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 2: hardware store?

1412
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 4: Did I say it like that?

1413
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 2: No? But I kind of like it. I kind of

1414
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 2: like that.

1415
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's you know, yeah, Well that's a

1416
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 4: drama triangle or the Cartman triangle as some people call it.

1417
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: And hopefully it's helpful, especially around this time of year,

1418
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,640
Speaker 1: and it can keep your relationship safe and help you

1419
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:07,480
Speaker 1: and get your needs met.

1420
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 2: All right, Kat, hope you had a great birthday. Hope

1421
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 2: you had the birthday.

1422
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 4: He needed to have.

1423
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 2: Thanks right, okay, and we hope y'all have the day.

1424
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 4: You need to have.

1425
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 1: Bye.

1426
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 5: Bye,