Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. This is Martha Stewart and our guest today
Speaker 1: is Amy Griffin. She is the founder of G nine Ventures,
Speaker 1: a venture capital firm that invests mostly in female driven
Speaker 1: early stage companies like Goop, Sarah Blakeley's Spanks, the beauty
Speaker 1: company Westman Atelier, and the wearable fitness tracker Aura. You
Speaker 1: know what, I have an Aura ring and I still
Speaker 1: I have it on the charger and I have not
Speaker 1: worn it yet. So we're gonna talk about that in
Speaker 1: a little bit. I first met our guest Amy at
Speaker 1: her home in East Hampton, Long Island, and I hope
Speaker 1: you're enjoying that beautiful place every single summer. You go
Speaker 1: out there all the time.
Speaker 2: You know, it's been the place really where we raised
Speaker 2: our kids. It's the place where I'll talk about it.
Speaker 2: But I sat on the bathroom floor to write my book.
Speaker 2: It's been you know. I love design, and so over
Speaker 2: the years of you know, living in that house and
Speaker 2: having my kids, there's been absolutely.
Speaker 1: They must have loved it so much.
Speaker 2: But also, Martha, I remember the day that you came
Speaker 2: over that day because I remember there was a plant
Speaker 2: in the corner and you said, Amy, this plant is dry.
Speaker 2: Oh and I said, oh no, oh no. And actually
Speaker 2: from that point on I learned how to take care
Speaker 2: of that plant. How are you being in the house,
Speaker 2: And so every time I see it, I think of you.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to give you my gardening handbook today
Speaker 1: right so that you can learn more about garden great
Speaker 1: And then I rekindle our friendship just recently at a
Speaker 1: lunch that Joe was hosted for female founders in a
Speaker 1: room full of women who are growing innovative new businesses.
Speaker 1: And that was such a great lunch downtown. And I
Speaker 1: admire so much of the work that you've done, Amy,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that today also. But your busy
Speaker 1: life has had an outward appearance of perfection. A beautiful family,
Speaker 1: four children, how old are they now?
Speaker 2: So I have one that is twenty one, who is eighteen,
Speaker 2: one who will be sixteen in a few weeks, in
Speaker 2: one who is twelve, Oh wow.
Speaker 1: And you have an adoring husband. You are a professional success.
Speaker 1: Your life is enviable. And then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you publish a book called The Tell, a very personal
Speaker 1: memoir about a deeply repressed secret. And the catharsis that
Speaker 1: the memoir brought to you by writing a book and
Speaker 1: by doing a few other things, you have come to
Speaker 1: Is it a bigger calm?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, I mean a calm, but also just a freedom.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the things I talk about in
Speaker 2: the book are the themes around power and the power
Speaker 2: that comes not from control and perfection, but this power
Speaker 2: that comes from vulnerability. And it was this idea of
Speaker 2: when I really stopped. The book has a lot of
Speaker 2: themes about running and that in many ways I was
Speaker 2: running from something and so I built this life, Martha,
Speaker 2: this life that I had in many ways, in some
Speaker 2: ways gotten lost in. And it was really only in
Speaker 2: sitting down to write this book where I've sat down
Speaker 2: on podcasts conversations and people have thought, oh, we're going
Speaker 2: to be talking today about the companies you support and
Speaker 2: why do you support a founder in a certain way,
Speaker 2: and how did you build your business? And actually really
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with why I wrote the book,
Speaker 2: But in some ways it has everything to do with
Speaker 2: why I wrote the book, because it connects to how
Speaker 2: I can now connect with founders and then how they
Speaker 2: build their businesses and say, Okay, let's sit down and
Speaker 2: figure out how we're going to do this honestly.
Speaker 1: Well, how interesting. So welcome to the podcast and we're
Speaker 1: on our way. It's very interesting to talk to someone
Speaker 1: like you who who for many many years didn't realize
Speaker 1: you were repressing something horrific that had happened in your youth.
Speaker 2: Well, there was this idea, Martha, that I think that
Speaker 2: i'd done. I've been working in business, I'd been building
Speaker 2: the foundation with this with G nine, my business that
Speaker 2: I've built, and also as a mother, my children were
Speaker 2: finally of the ages where they weren't falling in swimming pools,
Speaker 2: and I had a little bit more time to be
Speaker 2: honest about my life and take accountability for what had
Speaker 2: gone on. Also, you know, I look at the idea
Speaker 2: that i'd been in as a twenty year relationship with John,
Speaker 2: where I felt safe enough that I could come out
Speaker 2: and say this had really gone on, and I knew
Speaker 2: it was time to address. And what the word I
Speaker 2: use is permission. So I decided that I was going
Speaker 2: to give myself permission to hold myself accountable for everything
Speaker 2: that had gone on.
Speaker 1: I know, but it's not about even accountability. I mean,
Speaker 1: you were a young child when a school teacher had
Speaker 1: his way, and you have had repressed that for how
Speaker 1: many years?
Speaker 2: Many many years?
Speaker 1: But how many years did it go on?
Speaker 2: It went on from the time that I was around twelve.
Speaker 2: And you know, the idea around memory is that I
Speaker 2: don't know exactly the dates of it. And as much
Speaker 2: as I wish I could know exactly every date from
Speaker 2: the time I believe it started when I was twelve
Speaker 2: until I was a teenager. My sal was sixteen.
Speaker 1: Oh, and you didn't tell anybody that it was going on.
Speaker 2: Why because you know, I also grew up in the
Speaker 2: conservative South.
Speaker 1: Rillo, Texas, where I've been by the way.
Speaker 2: You know what it is. It's a beautiful this place
Speaker 2: of community where I grew up, and Martha, it's amazing
Speaker 2: cattle ranches, but and you could see forever. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's an incredibly beautiful place as well. It's flats you
Speaker 2: can see for miles. But one of the things that's
Speaker 2: so fascinating is that I equate you to my grandmother,
Speaker 2: who is this incredible pioneer in a small town, who
Speaker 2: much like you. In the nineteen fifties, my grandmother my
Speaker 2: grandfather had passed away, and my grandmother had these children
Speaker 2: to raise, and she thought, how am I going to
Speaker 2: do this, and she looked and saw these needs. She started,
Speaker 2: which you're going to love this. She started three businesses.
Speaker 2: I don't talk about all of them in the book,
Speaker 2: but she was the original entrepreneur in the first business
Speaker 2: she started was a lighting business because there were no
Speaker 2: chandeliers in the Panhandle, and she thought everyone does, everyone
Speaker 2: should have nice life lighting. And she started a wedding
Speaker 2: registry business which still exists today, and you would go
Speaker 2: in and you would register for a plate and buy
Speaker 2: a plate. It's called the Little Brown House. And you
Speaker 2: can still go in and buy silver set and register
Speaker 2: for your wedding set. So in many ways she is
Speaker 2: connected to you. And the third business that she started
Speaker 2: was a convenience store chain.
Speaker 1: And when I know, we all know how successful convenience
Speaker 1: stores have vin so how many stores now?
Speaker 2: I think there's I'm not going to say it incorrectly,
Speaker 2: but I think there's almost one hundred stores. They're out
Speaker 2: the Panhandle. Who runs those names and my family still
Speaker 2: runs them. It's still family owned. It's a family business.
Speaker 2: But you know, it was my grandmother who did all
Speaker 2: of this. And so she was the first entrepreneur. And
Speaker 2: I think that I really I link back now to
Speaker 2: what I learned from her and seeing I thought that
Speaker 2: was the norm that you saw a woman go to
Speaker 2: work every day and run a business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you didn't tell your grandma.
Speaker 2: I didn't tell anyone.
Speaker 1: Amy uses the name mister Mason, who is the teacher
Speaker 1: who started to abuse her, rape you on the school
Speaker 1: grounds or elsewhere?
Speaker 2: It was on the school grounds, only on the school ground, only,
Speaker 2: school bathroom.
Speaker 1: Ow in the school bathroom. Do you remember the episodes?
Speaker 1: Did they do? You do?
Speaker 2: I do? And you know I had remembered. One of
Speaker 2: the things I think I talk about in the book
Speaker 2: is this idea that there was so much that I remembered.
Speaker 2: I remembered being around this person. I can't really use
Speaker 2: him by name because it's still hard for me to
Speaker 2: even speak the name, even though that's not mister Mason,
Speaker 2: is not his name. I recognize that. It's only in
Speaker 2: my experience. I've just come to understand how my memory
Speaker 2: has worked, and how there were things that were so
Speaker 2: difficult for me to process, that what I did was
Speaker 2: sort of perfection myself out of them, and that if
Speaker 2: I could just succeed, if I could get away from
Speaker 2: all of it and I could make sure that no
Speaker 2: one saw what was going on, then I could be successful.
Speaker 1: But you did that so successfully. I mean Amy Griffin
Speaker 1: at the time. What was your maiden name, Mitchell, Amy Mitchell,
Speaker 1: Amy Mitchell was a very fantastic athlete. Tell us about
Speaker 1: what sports did you participate in.
Speaker 2: I played volleyball, and I played tennis in high school
Speaker 2: and then went on to play volleyball at the University
Speaker 2: of Virginia, which was a real ticket out for me.
Speaker 2: That was the most incredible opportunity. And Martha, I think
Speaker 2: about all the time that when I went on the
Speaker 2: recruiting visit to go for the University of Virginia and
Speaker 2: I walked on those holid grounds where there was this
Speaker 2: sense of place in the community, Thomas Shefferson and the architecture,
Speaker 2: and I thought, this is unlike anything I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my entire life. I want to walk on these
Speaker 2: copplestones every day. I want to be part of this
Speaker 2: piece of history. And you did, and it was it.
Speaker 2: But what's interesting was I called my parents the night
Speaker 2: I was still believe it or not, I was still
Speaker 2: the payphone days, and I remember I came off to the
Speaker 2: lawn after seeing the rotunda and the pavilions. And I
Speaker 2: called home and I said, well, this is where I'm
Speaker 2: going to school. And they said, but you haven't met
Speaker 2: the coach or talked to the team, or even been
Speaker 2: to the gym. I said, doesn't matter. This is where
Speaker 2: I'm going to spend the next four years of my life.
Speaker 2: I'm going to commit to the coach.
Speaker 1: You were probably there with some of my family. My
Speaker 1: husband went to UVA, but I know that son in
Speaker 1: law went to Uva, my sister's husband, her her son went. Oh.
Speaker 1: So many people in our family went to Uva.
Speaker 2: Well, and now I have a son that's there.
Speaker 1: Oh you do. Oh?
Speaker 2: So I love going back down and it brings up
Speaker 2: back such incredible, fabulous place. I would think that Charlott's
Speaker 2: will be a place that you love.
Speaker 1: I love it, I loved I loved Thomas Jefferson's home Maticicillo.
Speaker 1: I love visiting the gardens there, and of course the
Speaker 1: campus is so beautiful. Well, your life really did and
Speaker 1: does look upsolutely picture perfect from the outside. And there
Speaker 1: was one episode I read somewhere that caused you to
Speaker 1: face the facts that you had a dark secret and
Speaker 1: that involved your daughter. What happened.
Speaker 2: Well, aren't our children always our greatest, our parents If
Speaker 2: we pay attention to them, they parent us in many ways.
Speaker 2: And I think it was this recognition that when my daughter,
Speaker 2: both of them pulled me into a room and said, Mom,
Speaker 2: you know you do everything perfectly, but we we don't
Speaker 2: know you. You're you're not real. Who are you? We
Speaker 2: want to know you? And it was that moment they
Speaker 2: really said that they did.
Speaker 1: They did. Those are children.
Speaker 2: I actually, I'll have I tell you a funny story,
Speaker 2: but in that moment, this was not funny. But in
Speaker 2: that moment, I went in and I slammed the door
Speaker 2: and my husband said, well, what was that all about?
Speaker 2: And I said, Oh, she's so mad because she wants this,
Speaker 2: that and the other for me, and I do everything
Speaker 2: for her and I plan everything, and I, you know,
Speaker 2: try to make life perfect for all of our children.
Speaker 2: And what he said was, I think she's trying to
Speaker 2: tell you something. And it was this idea that they
Speaker 2: didn't want me to be perfect, They wanted me to
Speaker 2: be reachable. And I write that in the book. And
Speaker 2: I think it was that moment that I had, that
Speaker 2: I had that ability to decide I was either going
Speaker 2: to pay attention to them, or I was not going
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that. And it was in that moment that
Speaker 2: I heard my children and I acknowledged it, and I
Speaker 2: acknowledged that, and I knew that I needed to pull
Speaker 2: on that thread. But Martha, it's so funny because the
Speaker 2: book has been out now almost a month, and I've
Speaker 2: tried to stay away from reading reader reviews, and friends
Speaker 2: who were authors said, don't read anything. Just stay in
Speaker 2: your bubble and do what you have to do, and
Speaker 2: you know, believe in yourself. And so, but my daughter
Speaker 2: came to me, the one who called me into the
Speaker 2: bedroom recently, and she said, Mom, Mom, I have to
Speaker 2: tell you something fantastic. And I said what happened? She said, well,
Speaker 2: I saw someone on the that didn't give you a
Speaker 2: great review because they said they didn't think that I
Speaker 2: could say the words that were in the book. And
Speaker 2: I said really, and she said, so I wrote them.
Speaker 2: I wrote them, and I told them I said those
Speaker 2: exact words, and she took the comment down, and I thought, gosh,
Speaker 2: this child is so astute. She's been telling me this
Speaker 2: for such a long time, and here we are right
Speaker 2: back in that same You know, it's the same situation.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else to Jill or no?
Speaker 2: Good? No?
Speaker 1: But what did they think about the story? The children? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean have they read the book?
Speaker 2: My children have read the book. I think the most
Speaker 2: interesting part of all of this is that all of
Speaker 2: it's been a process. So when you when you read
Speaker 2: the book, you recognize I have.
Speaker 1: To started before you answered did your husband know about
Speaker 1: when you when you met your husband and you subsequently
Speaker 1: got engaged and married, did he know about this childhood trauma?
Speaker 2: He didn't know, specifically, because I never laid it out
Speaker 2: for him perfectly. At the same time, there are many
Speaker 2: clues that throughout the book I write about that he
Speaker 2: had recognized in me in certain moments that come up
Speaker 2: in the book that he said, Wow, I don't really
Speaker 2: understand why that just happened. And at the time, remember,
Speaker 2: I'm living it, so I don't understand why I'm protecting myself.
Speaker 2: But as we've talked about it, and as I wrote
Speaker 2: the book and I went through the process of.
Speaker 1: Writing, had you had psychiatric help?
Speaker 2: I've been to a therapist before, but I was never
Speaker 2: really willing to touch it. It was something that just
Speaker 2: was not going to be in this universe that I
Speaker 2: was going to touch. I don't know in this lifetime
Speaker 2: if maybe I would have just that I was just
Speaker 2: not going to I wasn't going to address it because
Speaker 2: it was too hard. It was something that didn't feel
Speaker 2: like it was of this world. But I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we were talking about my children and one of the
Speaker 2: things that happened on the first night after the book launched,
Speaker 2: and it was really surreal when Oprah surprised me and
Speaker 2: walked out on stage at the Ford Foundation and we
Speaker 2: had this incredible interaction, and then I was interviewed by
Speaker 2: Mariska Hargate, who has been a longtime friend, and it
Speaker 2: was just it was overwhelming and beautiful in that moment.
Speaker 2: But I went home and I decided to go to
Speaker 2: all of my children and say what did you think
Speaker 2: about that? And how did you feel about it? And
Speaker 2: realized it was really important in this relationship with my
Speaker 2: children that I continue to go back and forth with them.
Speaker 2: So I went to my twelve year old and I said, Julian,
Speaker 2: how did you feel about tonight? He said, Mom, it
Speaker 2: was great, it was great. I loved it, and that
Speaker 2: It was then, Martha that I realized that he was
Speaker 2: seven when I wrote the book and he couldn't read.
Speaker 2: And so I said, you know, you haven't read the book.
Speaker 2: And I realized tonight there were a lot of things
Speaker 2: said about the book that you may not have known.
Speaker 2: He said, Mom, I never knew you had that conversation
Speaker 2: with my sisters. And I said, right right, because you
Speaker 2: haven't been able to read it. And I said, well,
Speaker 2: do you think you'd like to read it now? And
Speaker 2: he said yeah, but I think I'm going to wait
Speaker 2: for a book report. I said, okay. He said, let's
Speaker 2: wait for a book report because I know I'll probably
Speaker 2: get an a on the subject because it's my mom's book,
Speaker 2: and I'll just, you know, do it all at once.
Speaker 2: And I thought, this is just the way it is, though,
Speaker 2: and this is the relationship that I wanted to have
Speaker 2: with my children and having these conversations.
Speaker 1: So were you fearful about losing their attention by telling
Speaker 1: the story? I think you're pretty bold, should you know,
Speaker 1: put it all out there.
Speaker 2: I think I was worried. And this is where I
Speaker 2: realized that the word control in so many areas of
Speaker 2: my life that I was worried about so many things
Speaker 2: that didn't happen and then there were things that did
Speaker 2: happen that you know, I could never have even known
Speaker 2: to worry about. But in this case, what was most
Speaker 2: fascinating was that I went to my children, and my children,
Speaker 2: in their childlike brains, didn't ask me the questions that
Speaker 2: a lot of adults asked me. So I was so worried.
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the worst days of my life
Speaker 2: was going and I knew it would be. Was going
Speaker 2: to tell my incredible mother, who does everything well and
Speaker 2: is beautiful like you, Mars, it's horrific.
Speaker 1: My mother didn't tell her a thing.
Speaker 2: It's horrific. But what happened was that when I recognized
Speaker 2: as I started telling people that each person I had
Speaker 2: a relationship with each person as I told them my story,
Speaker 2: and I became aware that what I needed to do
Speaker 2: was when I was going to tell someone a story,
Speaker 2: I had to make sure that I understood where they
Speaker 2: were and how they could handle it. And oddly enough,
Speaker 2: or actually beautifully enough, when I went to tell my children,
Speaker 2: all of my children, in their various ways, just said,
Speaker 2: we get it, we see you, we support you, and
Speaker 2: we're so proud of you for doing this.
Speaker 1: So that's what you want to.
Speaker 2: Hear and that's where, you know. And many times when
Speaker 2: I would go to an adult, some of my family
Speaker 2: members might say, but why, but how? But where were we?
Speaker 2: And a lot of those questions are questions that I
Speaker 2: don't necessarily have answers for. And it's so hard for
Speaker 2: me because the writing of this book and believe it
Speaker 2: or not the title. At one point in time, as
Speaker 2: I was writing in the manuscript, I thought about calling
Speaker 2: it believe Me or just having something about being believed,
Speaker 2: because it was so hard for me to believe what
Speaker 2: had gone on myself, having tucked away some of these
Speaker 2: memories for so long. There are so many memories of
Speaker 2: myself with this teacher. You know, I thought about this
Speaker 2: teacher even as an adult, over and over and over again,
Speaker 2: but I just wouldn't let myself touch the abuse for
Speaker 2: such a long time.
Speaker 1: Incredible You had a book agent, Kate. Wait, but why
Speaker 1: did you mention? Because she's also my agent. She helped
Speaker 1: you negotiate what you felt comfortable revealing in the book.
Speaker 1: It didn't start out as the tell well, what's the
Speaker 1: original book?
Speaker 2: I think there's so many things that have come into this,
Speaker 2: you know, I look at the book now, and sometimes
Speaker 2: I think of the thousands of things that had to
Speaker 2: happen to fall in line, from one from Kate to
Speaker 2: getting a phone call from Oprah. But what happened was
Speaker 2: Kate really started everything. Kate a friend called me and said,
Speaker 2: would you mind if I connected you to Kate Hoyt.
Speaker 2: I didn't even know she was a literary agent. I
Speaker 2: was told she was a literary agent. But I said,
Speaker 2: I'm happy to take a phone call with her because
Speaker 2: I'd been writing for over two years. I'd been in
Speaker 2: East Hampton, writing and writing and writing, and had been
Speaker 2: an English major in college. And my husband the day
Speaker 2: that I really decided to confront all of this, he
Speaker 2: handed me a notebook and he said, Amy, this is
Speaker 2: what you do best. Go sit and process and write.
Speaker 2: And I knew it in that moment before you had
Speaker 2: your treatment. This was the morning after. Oh. But to
Speaker 2: say so, what happened was if you want me to
Speaker 2: talk about the MDMA piece. I had made this decision.
Speaker 2: I'd seen John talking about PTSD. My husband had been
Speaker 2: interested in psychedelic therapy from a veteran's perspective, and I
Speaker 2: had never recognized because of his father. Yes, John's father
Speaker 2: was a war veteran, and oftentimes when we would go
Speaker 2: out for dinner, someone might say, John, what did your
Speaker 2: father do? And John would say he ran the Westchester
Speaker 2: It's Soccer youth league, and I would think, Okay, that's
Speaker 2: not really a job. But what happened was that John
Speaker 2: decided that he wanted to go in to understand what
Speaker 2: psychedelic therapy was, to work with a practitioner with MDMA
Speaker 2: and have his own session. And we were at dinner
Speaker 2: one night a week or so later, and someone said, John,
Speaker 2: what did your father do growing up? And John said
Speaker 2: he didn't. He was a war veteran, and he didn't work,
Speaker 2: and he didn't have a job. And so I saw something,
Speaker 2: a change and a shift in John, and also in
Speaker 2: a friend who'd also worked with a practitioner. The thing
Speaker 2: about me and Martha, which I think is fascinating to note,
Speaker 2: is that I never expected myself to be the psychedelic person,
Speaker 2: and I never I am the straightest person you will
Speaker 2: ever meet. If you've talked to my college friends, I
Speaker 2: was a very serious college athlete, and I actually recognize
Speaker 2: that I don't like being out of control. I barely
Speaker 2: drink alcohol.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you barely drink. You never took drugs recreationally. I've
Speaker 1: never seen drugs recreation. Yeah, but all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you thought, well, maybe this will help.
Speaker 2: And I'd also met the person I was going to
Speaker 2: be working with, and I understood it to be in
Speaker 2: a very clinical setting with a practitioner who'd been doing
Speaker 2: it for many decades. And I knew in that moment
Speaker 2: that it was something that I needed for myself, and
Speaker 2: that I'd been talking around what had gone on in
Speaker 2: my life, and I think I recognized that it was
Speaker 2: it was again I talk about this idea. People say
Speaker 2: to me, oh, it's so brave that you went to
Speaker 2: do that, But I never really thought of it as brave.
Speaker 2: I thought of it as giving myself this freedom, or
Speaker 2: this permission to go in and explore and be compassionate
Speaker 2: with myself.
Speaker 1: Weren't you afraid at all? Very?
Speaker 2: Oh, my bet, I was very afraid.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're completely at the mercy of the psychedelics.
Speaker 2: And I've also came to recognize I didn't. I purposely
Speaker 2: didn't do a lot of research in knowing that I
Speaker 2: had talked to my husband who had been through this
Speaker 2: process and said, you know, the idea is to let
Speaker 2: go and to have this compassion for yourself to go
Speaker 2: in and have the session. But Martha, that was the
Speaker 2: hardest part of it is to say, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 2: to surrender.
Speaker 1: Is a session?
Speaker 2: Well, well, the other thing I like to talk about,
Speaker 2: which I think is why it's been interesting that the
Speaker 2: book people are talking about my story is that I
Speaker 2: am not a scientist and I'm not a doctor, and
Speaker 2: I don't have I don't have a story for someone
Speaker 2: to say that I did this session and now my
Speaker 2: life is perfect. Now my life truly is perfect. Instead,
Speaker 2: it's actually the process that I walk through of unwinding
Speaker 2: something that was really horrific and to be able to
Speaker 2: come out on the other side and say, I personally
Speaker 2: feel like I understand now that myself, like everyone, is
Speaker 2: a work in progress. But I understand that work in
Speaker 2: progress much better than I did before. And so yes,
Speaker 2: on the day that I went in to have the therapy,
Speaker 2: I went to the practitioner and I said to her,
Speaker 2: I know I need to address a lot of sexual
Speaker 2: abuse or just a sexual try to record you. You're
Speaker 2: in my case, I could record it, and I didn't.
Speaker 2: The person took notes for me.
Speaker 1: You drink it and you inject it. What is it?
Speaker 2: So it's a pill, and what's fascinating for me? And
Speaker 2: in my case was I was so nervous to take
Speaker 2: the pill. But I took the pill. And when I
Speaker 2: swallowed the pill and I put the eye shades on,
Speaker 2: I turned the practitioner and I said, how long is
Speaker 2: it going to take for this to work? And she
Speaker 2: said it's you know, relax, It'll take you thirty minutes
Speaker 2: or forty minutes just to find yourself and just go
Speaker 2: be with yourself. The way that I've been told that
Speaker 2: it works is that that MDMA is an intactogen or
Speaker 2: an empathogen. It's not a hallucinogen. It also from the
Speaker 2: research that they have now, but just from my experience,
Speaker 2: what I was going to say was that it absolutely
Speaker 2: within five minutes, Martha, within five minutes, I said, I said, well,
Speaker 2: it takes thirty minutes. I'm ready to tell you everything.
Speaker 2: This is where I'm not a scientist again. But I
Speaker 2: think the idea that I took the pill, which was
Speaker 2: this lack of control to say it was right there
Speaker 2: on my brain and to understand that I could go
Speaker 2: in and just I could tell the story of what
Speaker 2: had gone on, and.
Speaker 1: Talked to experts since and did they say anything negative
Speaker 1: about it?
Speaker 2: Or I don't know the science behind it. I'm fascinated
Speaker 2: to learn what the science will develop to be. What
Speaker 2: I came to understand now in the way that the
Speaker 2: science and I tried to study and understand the science
Speaker 2: behind it, is that the brain, it allows the fight
Speaker 2: or flight, the fear center of the brain, the amignala,
Speaker 2: to shut down, so that the fear center allows you
Speaker 2: to have this empathy for yourself. And I could only
Speaker 2: say that in my case, again having no drug experience whatsoever,
Speaker 2: that in that moment, I spent eight hours in a room,
Speaker 2: eight hours in my case. And I've heard people say
Speaker 2: that it's been different lengths of time from five hours
Speaker 2: to four hours to ten hours, that in my situation
Speaker 2: the first eight hours, I spent eight hours with.
Speaker 1: This practicition, only with one person.
Speaker 2: With this person, and I told my story of being
Speaker 2: in this bathroom, of the multiple times that I was
Speaker 2: sexually abused over and over and over again, and I
Speaker 2: could recall everything down to minute details, down to the
Speaker 2: handle in the door, to the sinks, to the tiles,
Speaker 2: and I clung to those I clung to those details
Speaker 2: as a way for me to recognize that I understood
Speaker 2: in that moment that I could leave my b and
Speaker 2: go somewhere else, and that's how I would survive. And
Speaker 2: that is the only way that I could describe how
Speaker 2: I could recognize how survival works in many cases for humans.
Speaker 2: I think about Martha, even someone who has a car
Speaker 2: crash or you know, I can think of many other
Speaker 2: situations in my life where someone tells me something horrible.
Speaker 2: It's like I write in the book that my father
Speaker 2: always says, when we call home to tell my mother
Speaker 2: and father something bad has happened, we have to immediately say,
Speaker 2: I'm calling right now. Everything's okay, everyone's alive, but I
Speaker 2: have to tell you something. And sometimes I've had other
Speaker 2: instances in my life where if you can think back
Speaker 2: when someone tells you something and then you later remember, wait,
Speaker 2: I can't remember what they actually even told me because
Speaker 2: I was I'd gone into a state of frozen. And
Speaker 2: in this case is the only way that I can
Speaker 2: recognize that it was a compassion that I have for
Speaker 2: myself of protection of what had gone on.
Speaker 1: So you took this pill, you really didn't know what
Speaker 1: was going to happen. You entrusted all your memories to
Speaker 1: the therapists. Is she a well known therapist for this.
Speaker 2: Well, she's been well known in the circles, But I
Speaker 2: don't know how well known she is because I'm the
Speaker 2: only one. You know. I was introduced to her, my
Speaker 2: husband has worked with her, and I completely That's exactly right, Martha.
Speaker 2: She was completely trusted. She was a trusted source. She
Speaker 2: was someone that I trusted immediately. I would never have
Speaker 2: gone to also take a drug at a club, and
Speaker 2: I haven't done that. That's not something that's been my experience.
Speaker 2: So when we talk about what MDMA is and ecstasy is,
Speaker 2: and I've only people say, oh, I did ecstasy at
Speaker 2: a club, I don't have any experience of doing ecstasy
Speaker 2: at a club. I only had this experience for myself.
Speaker 1: But sounds a little bit like hypnosis in a way,
Speaker 1: because because I remember getting hypnotized. Do you remember every
Speaker 1: single thing?
Speaker 2: I remember, every single note there was music playing in
Speaker 2: the background. Why when I do you remember everything that
Speaker 2: I remember everything that was also happening in the room,
Speaker 2: down to the note of the flamenco.
Speaker 1: Music mentally and physically, did you notice anything different.
Speaker 2: After my experience. Oh, I mean, you know, the next
Speaker 2: day was it was the aftermath of all of it.
Speaker 2: That night, when I came out of the session, I
Speaker 2: told John, and I can only describe it in the
Speaker 2: way that I ride about it say. He knew in
Speaker 2: the moment he did what I think could be the
Speaker 2: most loving, compassionate thing for a spouse. He listened, and
Speaker 2: over time we unpacked a lot of the stories that
Speaker 2: made him recognize why maybe I'd done some of the
Speaker 2: things I've done, and how he could have He recognized
Speaker 2: that maybe this had gone on. But in that moment, Martha,
Speaker 2: it was wildly liberating to be able to tell the
Speaker 2: secret not only what had been done to me, but
Speaker 2: this idea that I live, this life that looks one
Speaker 2: way that I built up all these walls and castles,
Speaker 2: and yet I was able to dismantle the secret that
Speaker 2: I'd kept from the person who I loved the most
Speaker 2: in this world.
Speaker 1: It was so free, That's what's so strange. And you've
Speaker 1: been married for how long before this happened.
Speaker 2: Let's see, it was I miss eighteen nineteen years. I
Speaker 2: lose track, but I think it was about seventeen eighteen
Speaker 2: years wow. And it was because of that connection with him.
Speaker 2: I think it was because of that that freedom that
Speaker 2: I had in the relationship with John, that I was
Speaker 2: able to te tell him in knowing in this that
Speaker 2: there wasn't going to be this fear that I would
Speaker 2: be cast out. And it was after this long period
Speaker 2: of connecting and building this relationship with him that I
Speaker 2: felt safe to do so. And also there were so
Speaker 2: many things that led to this. Also, I think it's
Speaker 2: really important to note that my daughters were also of
Speaker 2: the ages that I was when I was going through
Speaker 2: this abuse, and so to say that I was feeling
Speaker 2: this tension with them when they called me out, along
Speaker 2: with having the session, being in the relationship that I
Speaker 2: was in, and being safe enough within myself to say,
Speaker 2: I'm strong enough in the business I built you to
Speaker 2: each that I am.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell your mom.
Speaker 2: No, but why because this person told me that I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be believed if I did. He told me, you
Speaker 2: come from one of the nicest families in town, you
Speaker 2: will not be believed, no one will love you. So
Speaker 2: what did I do? I achieved out of it. I
Speaker 2: achieved away from it such that no one could see
Speaker 2: what was going on. One of the things I write
Speaker 2: about in the book is how you know we have
Speaker 2: one foot in a bucket of hot water and one
Speaker 2: foot in a bucket of cold water, and that's we
Speaker 2: live our life in between. In some ways, I was
Speaker 2: always living fearful of the secret coming out, and so
Speaker 2: I was building this life such that no one could
Speaker 2: touch me. And yet at the same time I was
Speaker 2: living in fear from all of that. And I think
Speaker 2: in acknowledging what had gone on, it was so beautiful
Speaker 2: because now I could live so fully on both sides
Speaker 2: that I can still feel deep, deep sadness and I
Speaker 2: still feel deep, deep signest and then also the joy
Speaker 2: of the freedom.
Speaker 1: But raising children, I mean, aren't you You must be
Speaker 1: terribly concerned about.
Speaker 2: Your kids, definitely, And I think one of the things
Speaker 2: that's so beautiful in the relationship was in the idea
Speaker 2: that if in the book, I talk about running a lot,
Speaker 2: but I also talk about how I really was so
Speaker 2: controlling over my children, and the idea that if I
Speaker 2: could just keep them safe. I thought it was in
Speaker 2: many of the ways that I talk about from the
Speaker 2: conservative South, that in the South we were raised that
Speaker 2: your skirt needs to be a certain link, that your
Speaker 2: nail shouldn't be too red, that your heels should be
Speaker 2: a certain height, and those were ways that might keep
Speaker 2: you safe in life. But what I came to realize,
Speaker 2: and it was one night that I write about in
Speaker 2: the book, where my son was maybe one minute late
Speaker 2: from coming home from curfew. I stood in the doorway
Speaker 2: pacing because of that one minute. And there was this
Speaker 2: recognition also in that moment too, where John and I
Speaker 2: talked about what was I solving for the relationship or
Speaker 2: control of him? And through this process, I've been able
Speaker 2: to recognize that I can solve for the relationship with
Speaker 2: them of the conversation back and forth, not of the control.
Speaker 1: In the book, too, you talk about the fact that
Speaker 1: you were not able to have any retribution whatsoever with
Speaker 1: your abuser.
Speaker 2: Why, well, there was a loophole in the statute of
Speaker 2: limitations that had passed in terms of me being able
Speaker 2: to move forward. But I think one of the most
Speaker 2: interesting threads of the book is that, and I talk
Speaker 2: about this a lot in people that haven't read the book,
Speaker 2: is the book is not just about the horrific things
Speaker 2: that happened to me. The book in fact, I look
Speaker 2: at it. There's a crazy crime thriller that goes on
Speaker 2: that I was writing about as I was living in it, Martha,
Speaker 2: as I'm going after this person, and I was doing
Speaker 2: what I had always done in my life, which was
Speaker 2: the idea if I could go and get this person
Speaker 2: and do everything I could to hold this person accountable,
Speaker 2: then life would be perfect again, and I could tie
Speaker 2: it up with a bow and I could say I
Speaker 2: accomplished this. This person is in jail, and look what
Speaker 2: I did. But in reality, I was trying to take
Speaker 2: care of myself, take care of my family, run my business,
Speaker 2: and hold this person accountable. And the statut limitations had
Speaker 2: changed in Texas as such that there actually were two
Speaker 2: people that had been led out of jail because their
Speaker 2: cases had been overturned based on a loophole.
Speaker 1: And this is just going to be a movie.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you know, I've been asked that so many times,
Speaker 2: and I actually don't know, because also can I say why?
Speaker 1: It sounds like Ryan Murphy.
Speaker 2: I could only wish. But you know what's interesting about
Speaker 2: the movie piece of it is that I put hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of hours into the word choice of how
Speaker 2: I wrote about this book and the idea of then
Speaker 2: going back into it again. I'd just come out of
Speaker 2: putting the book out into the world and also putting
Speaker 2: the book out into the world so that people would
Speaker 2: read it. But imagine that Martha. There was this decision
Speaker 2: which just as I was going to get back to
Speaker 2: Kate hoyt our agent who when she said to me,
Speaker 2: you know, can I read what you wrote? And I
Speaker 2: have this one thought of when I pushed send and
Speaker 2: I turned to John. He said, what did you do?
Speaker 2: I said, I just sent Kate everything I've been writing
Speaker 2: for two years. He said, you send it to her,
Speaker 2: and I said, yes, because it's time for me to
Speaker 2: tell this story and I think I'll help a lot
Speaker 2: of other people. Without knowing that that was what was
Speaker 2: going to happen, I had no idea that a literary
Speaker 2: agent was going to call me. And so the most
Speaker 2: important thing about the book that I say is the
Speaker 2: takeaway for me, which I've had to get comfortable with,
Speaker 2: which is why I don't know if there will be
Speaker 2: a movie, is that I've had to get comfortable with
Speaker 2: the fact that I wrote this book on my bathroom floor. First,
Speaker 2: for me, not thinking that anyone in the entire world
Speaker 2: would ever read it. And so now that that's changed,
Speaker 2: I'm having these conversations with people all over the world
Speaker 2: that are writing to tell me how this has opened
Speaker 2: something up for them, or they've remembered something that they
Speaker 2: had hidden. And what's been fascinating too, is that such
Speaker 2: a big part of this has not just been about
Speaker 2: sexual trauma. It's been about all kinds of things, people's
Speaker 2: sexual orientation, or something happening with a partner, or something
Speaker 2: at worked that happened that was inappropriate. There's just so
Speaker 2: many things that I think we as humans overlook, and
Speaker 2: especially Martha and you know this, we as women hold
Speaker 2: and we are held to different standards.
Speaker 1: Totally argally right. So, has the feedback that you've received
Speaker 1: surprised you or anything to say about that? I mean,
Speaker 1: the feedback's been amazing. Every magazine I open has a
Speaker 1: very good review of your book, every single one, and.
Speaker 2: That's so kind. Yeah, you know, I was very nervous.
Speaker 2: This is the first time I'm probably saying I was
Speaker 2: very scared to put my words out into the world
Speaker 2: for so many reasons, for fear of being judged, for
Speaker 2: fear of being not believed for fear of the idea
Speaker 2: that this is what I was told was the secret
Speaker 2: in many ways, was the thing I was running from.
Speaker 2: That was the hardest part to tell my parents and
Speaker 2: to break that secret. So to put the book out
Speaker 2: into the world and have the people people come back
Speaker 2: to me with me like the connection one on one.
Speaker 2: I cannot tell you. Seeing people reading it in lawn
Speaker 2: chairs and on subways and having these threads that they
Speaker 2: pull of it has been. It's been absolutely surreal, and
Speaker 2: that has been such a gift to me. I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful for it.
Speaker 1: So what did your mom say when I told her?
Speaker 2: Yeah, immediately when I went to tell my mom, you know,
Speaker 2: it all felt so fuzzy. As I told her what
Speaker 2: had happened. She went inside to get something to drink,
Speaker 2: and I found her on the floor, on the tile floor,
Speaker 2: curled up in a ball, and she said, I can't
Speaker 2: get up. I can't get up. And I said, Mom,
Speaker 2: you're going to have to get up because I have
Speaker 2: to finish telling you this. I have to tell you,
Speaker 2: tell you, tell you. Back to the title of the
Speaker 2: book and Martha, I have to say, my mother is
Speaker 2: the most extraordinary woman. She has risen from this she
Speaker 2: has read. She was five steps ahead of me in
Speaker 2: terms of reading every book to then come to me
Speaker 2: and say, I understand now why you couldn't tell us.
Speaker 2: I understand why how other people had been through this.
Speaker 2: There's a story that happened last night. A woman that
Speaker 2: is in the book that I write about, who haven't
Speaker 2: spoken to a long time. He's a dear friend, wrote
Speaker 2: me last night and said me, when I had my incident,
Speaker 2: happened to me and I had this horrific thing happen
Speaker 2: of abuse, your mother twenty years ago, twenty five years
Speaker 2: ago was the first person that showed up at my
Speaker 2: house to tell me her story. Oh wow, And I
Speaker 2: heard that story last night. So to go back to
Speaker 2: my mother and see how my mother has grown and
Speaker 2: accepted this and understood this, and how we've grown as
Speaker 2: a family has been one of the most beautiful parts
Speaker 2: of this process.
Speaker 1: I as a person would hope that it happened earlier
Speaker 1: in your life, but it's good that it's happened now. Well.
Speaker 2: I always have had a beautiful relationship with my mom.
Speaker 2: She's an incredible homemaker and she can do anything, and
Speaker 2: she could be a senator or a CEO or she
Speaker 2: still could be, and who knows what she will do.
Speaker 2: She's only like seventy two years young. And we were
Speaker 2: always close, and this was something that was also part
Speaker 2: of the problem, is that we were so close that
Speaker 2: I came from a beautiful family that was intact. And
Speaker 2: I do believe as I went through all of this,
Speaker 2: and I surfed through all of it, through the waters,
Speaker 2: that I realized that it was my family that kept
Speaker 2: me intact. And I was so I was so blessed
Speaker 2: I had the family to go home to that was intact,
Speaker 2: that I could go home to my parents who were
Speaker 2: loving and caring.
Speaker 1: No, it's amazing that you have that and that strength
Speaker 1: behind you. But so this has been a tough conversation
Speaker 1: and it's heartrending, and it's also extremely enlightening and also
Speaker 1: very encouraging that someone can live through what you've lived through,
Speaker 1: succeeded so beautifully, and so many many things. And I
Speaker 1: just wanted to talk a little tiny bit about Amy's
Speaker 1: amazing accomplishments as a female founder, as a fantastic mother,
Speaker 1: as a wonderful wife. You run a company that everybody
Speaker 1: admires so greatly. Tell us about g nine.
Speaker 2: Well, G nine started with the idea that I loved
Speaker 2: I was an athlete, and I loved being on a team,
Speaker 2: and I love supporting people. And I came to this
Speaker 2: realization that I had the skill set from my background
Speaker 2: to jump in and figure out how to be a
Speaker 2: problem solver and to be a leader, and to lead
Speaker 2: these founders and to surround them with the support they
Speaker 2: might need as they're building their businesses. And so I
Speaker 2: started very simply by making one or two investments in
Speaker 2: a few businesses. What was your first investment One of
Speaker 2: the first businesses that was material that I made. I
Speaker 2: made a few others, I mean an ice cream store
Speaker 2: and this and that and the other, but one of
Speaker 2: the first that was material, really was believing in Goop
Speaker 2: and what Gwyneth was building and seeing that transition that
Speaker 2: she was making, both from having this model of sending
Speaker 2: out this weekly email to saying, you know what, I'm
Speaker 2: going from Hollywood to go be this founder and I'm
Speaker 2: going to step in and run this business. And I
Speaker 2: wholeheartedly believed her and still do and seeing what she's
Speaker 2: doing and how she's stuck with it and how she's
Speaker 2: become the CEO of that business that she is today.
Speaker 1: And more than seventy percent of your portfolio, which is
Speaker 1: quite extensive from what I've read, are female founders.
Speaker 2: That's right, And that wasn't by design necessarily, except that
Speaker 2: I recognized that I come from the female perspective, and
Speaker 2: I recognized, you know, you look at a business like
Speaker 2: a spanks or a bumble, or there's many health which
Speaker 2: is around men's healthcare. And I saw areas where women
Speaker 2: were being left out, and I wanted to apply my
Speaker 2: experiences to those businesses. And so over time, as I
Speaker 2: had enough founders around the table, I started seeing these
Speaker 2: patterns within founders and how they did well and how
Speaker 2: they built their businesses. And I also recognized that there
Speaker 2: were patterns. But at the same time, it was about
Speaker 2: showing up and just rolling up by sleeves and saying,
Speaker 2: what do you need is you need a new CMO,
Speaker 2: you need someone to help you with branding, You need
Speaker 2: me to show up and help hand out flyers. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's this idea that it's like whatever it takes.
Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon's company Hill at Sunshine, Yes, incredible, Yeah, how's
Speaker 1: that doing?
Speaker 2: I mean, what a beautiful idea that I did that,
Speaker 2: Reese took and said, I'm going to help women tell
Speaker 2: their stories in a very different way, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to help them own their stories from start to finish
Speaker 2: in a different model. And so I was so proud
Speaker 2: to be a part of what she was doing. As
Speaker 2: she said, also, I don't see women in these roles,
Speaker 2: and I want to give more women the opportunities to
Speaker 2: take these lead roles. So I'm going to buy these
Speaker 2: scripts and I'm going to make these movies and I'm
Speaker 2: going to make it happen. And that's like as exciting
Speaker 2: as it can get for me.
Speaker 1: You said that you are also invested in Westbinochlier.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, Gucci's the most fabulous, sickest human alive.
Speaker 1: And that was also the neighbor of mine. I've been
Speaker 1: Bedford and I love her products. I think she's done
Speaker 1: such an amazing job with her company from start to finish. Yes,
Speaker 1: and she's done it the right way. She's built it
Speaker 1: slow and methodically and with thought. She deeply cares about
Speaker 1: every single product that she makes. She's been a longtime friend,
Speaker 1: but I've watched her and immediately when she said she
Speaker 1: was starting this business, I said, I would love to
Speaker 1: be part of it. And can I tell you that,
Speaker 1: you know, I would like to say that I've been
Speaker 1: helpful to these businesses, but in many ways I learned
Speaker 1: from them and Gucci and Gucci is one of those
Speaker 1: founders that I learned so much from in terms of
Speaker 1: what to do and how to build a business the
Speaker 1: right way. And Spanks that is evolving and evolving. That's
Speaker 1: how old is that company now?
Speaker 2: Well, Spanks is just going into its twenty fifth year.
Speaker 2: Sarah Blakely is the original inventor creative of shapewear. Shapewear
Speaker 2: and you know, I think of Sarah as a real
Speaker 2: She is an icon like you in many ways. So
Speaker 2: to sit with Sarah who still comes to board meetings
Speaker 2: and says, wait a minute, light bulb idea and always
Speaker 2: has these incredible answers as to how we should move
Speaker 2: and where we should take the company in the next iteration.
Speaker 2: And truly, this was this first idea that she believed
Speaker 2: in a business that could make women feel better in
Speaker 2: the clothing that they were wearing, and she did it,
Speaker 2: and she's just so much.
Speaker 1: It's just incredibly what's up and coming? Can you talk
Speaker 1: about any company?
Speaker 2: Well, My team is focused a lot on women's sports
Speaker 2: right now and just making sure that there are women
Speaker 2: owners of sports teams. I think that's one thing we've
Speaker 2: been looking at a lot, because otherwise evaluations are going
Speaker 2: to get away from us, and you know that we
Speaker 2: want to. It's really exciting to see what's happening in
Speaker 2: women's sports from an investment perspective. But also we've been
Speaker 2: really focused on women's health and just finding businesses in
Speaker 2: women's health that are going to transform women's wives in
Speaker 2: various ways, from the female microbiome with EVY to MIDI,
Speaker 2: which is a midlife care. We're really interested in them
Speaker 2: right now because of the fact that I see how
Speaker 2: they can transform for.
Speaker 1: Most of them more I think we I think women
Speaker 1: need more information.
Speaker 2: We look at someone like doctor Mary Clare. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've followed her, but she's someone that's been
Speaker 2: a friend for a while, and I've seen so many
Speaker 2: women talking about We're talking about things that we didn't
Speaker 2: talk about before. And those are some of the categories
Speaker 2: that I've been interested in. Like, no one said the
Speaker 2: word menopause, no one said the word perimenopause. No one
Speaker 2: knew that there were there was businesses to be built
Speaker 2: around this to help women not just men.
Speaker 1: And my company are talking about menopause.
Speaker 2: Great and it's working. I mean that means there's money
Speaker 2: to be made, but not the money is not where
Speaker 2: the money is one part of it.
Speaker 1: They know what it is now because of companies like
Speaker 1: medi and those. You know that there that is in
Speaker 1: the conversation now, which is interesting.
Speaker 2: I think there's so many subjects that have been passe
Speaker 2: and off you can't have the conversation. So the fact
Speaker 2: that we're having conversations about menopause, both women were silid
Speaker 2: from it too. I think women are for the first
Speaker 2: time actually learning what it means to have these symptoms
Speaker 2: of menopause. So that's an area that we've been really
Speaker 2: excited about.
Speaker 1: Well, keep up your fantastic good work. Congratulations on being
Speaker 1: able to tell with the tell and encourage all of
Speaker 1: us not to think that we have to hide things
Speaker 1: that are painful or secretive in our lives. Amy, You've
Speaker 1: done a good service to all of us by writing
Speaker 1: this book and coming forth with the truth.
Speaker 2: I'm living in the messy now, Martha. That's the thing,
Speaker 2: the idea I'm trying to embrace the spilled glass of
Speaker 2: wine on the table, and stay a little longer, and
Speaker 2: you know, as life changes and transforms. I think the
Speaker 2: greatest gift that I've given myself is in the freedom
Speaker 2: of this book, okay, because I can now go back
Speaker 2: to my businesses, Yes, and even more open mind.
Speaker 1: You have the most It's very exciting what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Thank you, and I'm excited for you, and I'd love
Speaker 1: to see the enthusiasm that is spilling out of your
Speaker 1: beautiful eyes is great. Well, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: speaking with us today and this of luck.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you. My icon