1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny Hand Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: I've never told you a production of I Heart Radio. Samantha, 3 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: do you remember, Okay, first of all, were you more 4 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: of a bikini or one piece or T shirt person? 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: And secondly, do you remember the first time you like 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: wore a bikini. So of course as a child, I 7 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: would wear the two piece because my mom bought those 8 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: for me, and they're really cute. I really liked them. 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: That would probably be my first bikini, even though it's 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: not technically I guess in that same level, but it 11 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: is a two piece, and I loved it because it 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: was bright pink and bright yellow and bright orange, which 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: surprisingly I love those colors. I don't know why. I 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: When I as a kid and then as an adult, 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: it took me a long time to wear aating suit 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: and I absolutely was the shorts and T shirts person, 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: and I made sure it was extra large. I made 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: sure that I, like I would wear sports brab but 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: I would rarely get in the water around people because 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: I was so self conscious of my body. After a 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: little while, I finally just kind of like, you know what, 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: screw this, and I bought a really cute like the 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: high waisted bikini because I really liked them, and I've 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: now graduated to tank Kinne's m hmm, because I really 25 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: really adore that. But I just recently bought a pair 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: of that, the little swim shorts that's not Actually it's 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: shorter than what the Norwegian handball team wore. I know, 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: I'm referencing current events right now. It's actually shorter than that, 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: but I really love it and it's really comfortable. And 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: then I have a larger, like a second piece the 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: top where it kind of billows out like a T shirt, 32 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: but it's still the back is open everything, and I'm like, yeah, 33 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: that this is up my alley. So it took me 34 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: a while to get there to finally not care what 35 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: I'm wearing. But yeah, I took a long time. Yeah, 36 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: I think you referenced the Norwegian handball team, which is 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: the reason I wanted to bring this up, because I 38 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: have been thinking about it for a while. I was 39 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: generally I wore one pieces or like two pieces, but 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: the torso was completely covered until I got into high 41 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: school and it was like there's almost a judgment if 42 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: you did that, of you weren't comfortable enough with your body. Um, 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: so I started wearing bikinis, but I hated it, and 44 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: like I cried the first time I tried one on 45 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: because I was so self conscious and I just felt 46 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: like gross in my body and I felt like everyone 47 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: was judging me, which they probably weren't, but I felt 48 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: like they were. And then I continue to do it 49 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: because I felt like not doing it was cowardly. And 50 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: I say that in heavy quotes because that's a messed 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: up thought, but that's how I felt, right. But then 52 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: like I got to a point where I felt comfortable enough, 53 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: but it it did still feel like a sexual thing 54 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: where it shouldn't have been a sexual thing, but it 55 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: felt like you were like showing off your body, which 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: can be fine, like if you're totally into that, but 57 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: if you're just I wasn't doing it for the right reasons. 58 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: That's not what I was into. But now I've become 59 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: like a T shirt person, like just a long T shirt, 60 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: but in general, that's just become my outfit since the pandemic. 61 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: It's just a long T shirt. Fair, But I have 62 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: become I think a lot of us and we've talked 63 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: about that before because I have gained weight during the 64 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: pandemic and I have become like less confident then I 65 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: was prior to it. So I just like T shirts 66 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: and I won't even have to deal with it. Which 67 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: all of this is there's a lot of unhealthy stuff 68 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: to impact there, because I think many of us experienced this, 69 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: and as we are going through this controversy in the Olympics, 70 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: the sexualization of outfits where these professional athletes are like 71 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: by rule, supposed to wear essentially bikini bottoms if they're 72 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: women for no real athletic reason, and I was reading 73 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: the accounts of women saying like, can you imagine having 74 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: your professional outfit being sexualized and how it's turned people away, 75 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, this is I don't I 76 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: don't know why I've just accepted this for so long. 77 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: It's like a normal thing, but yeah, it is weird, 78 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: and like it would make me feel uncomfortable if I 79 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: was playing a sport on international television and I was 80 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: wearing something that I was uncomfortable in and felt sexualized in. 81 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure that they would train in that, but for me, 82 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: that would distract me and make me feel it would 83 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: take me out of it at least a little bit. 84 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: Chi's ridiculously absolutely so, we wanted to look into the 85 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: history of the bikini and this classic episode and we 86 00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: hope that you enjoy. Welcome to Stump Mom Never Told You. 87 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: From housetop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 88 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: This is Kristen, This is Molly. Molly. This is something 89 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: that I don't really like to say, even though it's fact, 90 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: It just sounds so cheesy when you say it out loud. 91 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: I can't wait to tear what you're gonna say, Molly. Yes, 92 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: it's swimsuits season. Oh, I know, and I groaned automatically. 93 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: It was just ingrained to me to start groaning. I know, 94 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: because a lot of times it swimsuit season is followed 95 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: by some kind of thing telling women about how they 96 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: need to shape up and get rid of all that 97 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: their cellulites, and they don't discuss people when they reveal 98 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: their pale bodies to the world. Yeah, there's all sort 99 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: of somebody issues inherent in saying that in swimsuit season. 100 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: But we're not going to talk about body issues today. 101 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: We're just gonna focus on those pieces of cloth that 102 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: stir up both men and women alike every summer. Not 103 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: bacchini KINI and I just want to give you a 104 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: sneak peek of this podcast where we're going with this. 105 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: By the end of it, Christmas is going to point 106 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,799 Speaker 1: out that the bikini is the ultimate feminist icon. WHOA, 107 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: I know, is your mind blown. I didn't see that coming. 108 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: I didn't know either. I didn't know I was going 109 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: to do that. I've got some work to do then 110 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: in the next twenty minutes. All right, Molly, let's get started, 111 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: because the history of the bikini, as the title of 112 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: this podcast implies, ain't so skimpy. Yes, more coverage than 113 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: you had thought possible with the bikini, so many puns 114 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: to be had. In this episode, we need to go 115 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: back in time, Molly, we need to go back BC. 116 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: I did not realize this, Molly, but the first recorded 117 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: use of a form of bathing costume was in Greece 118 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: and three fifty BC. And there's actually a fourth century 119 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: mosaic wall in the piazza on Marina probably saying that 120 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: I wish I could do an Italian accent in sicily 121 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: depicting women wearing bikinis. It's amazing. Yeah, but as ancient 122 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: Rome Falls and the Greeks and all the ancient civilizations 123 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: die out, there comes the rise of prudishness and shame 124 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: regarding one's body, and no one went swimming. Yeah, they 125 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: would go bathing, you know, but not recreationally swimming like 126 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: we think of swimming today. During the eighteenth century, we'd 127 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: they'd have spas where men and women would go, you know, 128 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: to the public bath houses, maybe go take a steam. 129 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: It was very therapeutic. It was medicinal. It was not like, 130 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: let's go splash around in the water. So it may 131 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: seem like we made a huge jump from like BC 132 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: to the eighteenth century, but I mean for a long time, 133 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: swimming was frowned upon. Yeah, it just wasn't something. It 134 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: was not the quintessential summer activity as it is today. 135 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: But by the mid eight hundreds we have the rise 136 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: of bathing as a recreational activity. And then in the 137 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: early eight hundreds, with the rise of bathing or swimming, 138 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: we can now call it. I guess we have the 139 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: emergence of swimwear because you need you can't just walk 140 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: into the water with a full suit on and and 141 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 1: I expect to have a good swim canny moally, Well 142 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: that's what they expected. The ladies to do. That's right, 143 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: because first swimsuits from when were essentially just like ball gowns. Mean, 144 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: not really, but it was a lot of cloth. And 145 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: to avoid the poofy ballooning of a skirt that could 146 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: happen as you get in the water, they would weigh down. 147 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: They put weights in the hymns of the skirt to 148 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: make sure that you know, you weren't gonna show any shin. 149 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: You know, the shin is the most erotic part of 150 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: the leg, so you must hide it at all times. 151 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, Christim, but swimming with 152 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: weights on doesn't sound like much fun. No, it doesn't. 153 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: Sounds like a recipe for disaster and fun. Side side 154 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: note to all of this, we actually have the railroad 155 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: to thank for all of this when we're being invented, 156 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: because it was with the railroad that people could actually 157 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: flock to the sea sides to go to the beach, 158 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: thus popularizing the beach activities, thus necessitating of the bathing suit. Now, 159 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: in addition to waiting down the swimming dress, uh, they 160 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: just went to all sorts of links to make sure 161 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: that women never had to be seen in a bathing costume. 162 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: There was this one cool thing that Slate pointed out 163 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: where it was like a dressing room on wheels, and 164 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: you'd put the woman in the dressing room on wheels, 165 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: she'd put on her bathing dress and they would wheel 166 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: her in the little room like down to the ocean 167 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: so she could get in the ocean without anyone seeing her, 168 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,599 Speaker 1: and she could have a dip. And when she was 169 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: ready to get out, they'd wheel the thing up and 170 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 1: pick her up and take her back so she could 171 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: put her clothes on. And this was actually called a 172 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: bathing machine. Yeah, and it's you know, women just could 173 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: not be seen on a each Yeah. It was a 174 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: very it was very private thing, which makes sense. This 175 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: was a Victorian era, the height of prudishness. But then 176 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: we have some some women who are really tired of 177 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: being weighted down in the water because first of all, 178 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: it was probably dangerous and probably really hard to tread water, 179 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: whilst they pointed out some women died um. But then 180 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: in nine seven we have Australian swimmer and silent film 181 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: star Annett Kellerman who has had enough well she needed 182 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: to swim for for therapeutic reasons because she had had 183 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: polio and rickets and so she started swimming to make 184 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: her legs strong, and she was like, hey, by the way, 185 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: it's really hard to make my leg strong when I 186 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: can't move them with all these like pantaloons and weighted 187 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: down skirts and the like that you're making me wear. 188 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: So she shows up in America on a Boston beach 189 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: and wears what we would think of today is a 190 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: pretty modest swimsuit. It was like a tank top that 191 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: you know, had no cutouts, so she's not showing any chest, 192 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: she's showing their arms, but you know, she's pretty much 193 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: covered from neck to thigh essentially. Yeah, and this is 194 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: a nineteen o seven and she is arrested for her 195 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: swimsuit at a public beach beach in Boston for indecent exposure. 196 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: Can you imagine, no, I mean, if that's indecent exposure, 197 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: just imagine if those seven policemen could travel through time 198 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: to a two thousand and ten beach, if only they 199 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: had our time traveling capabilities that we have on this 200 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: podcast technology these days now only we would be remiss 201 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: in this discussion if we didn't mention Agnes Beckwith and 202 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: a Neck Kellerman, because there were two other women who 203 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: really helped pave the way for allowing women to go 204 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: swimming in public without having to worry about revealing their bodies, 205 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: you know, and being arrested for indecent exposure and all 206 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: this stuff. Um and back With for instance, raced in 207 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: the water. She swam against other guys. She raised four 208 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: miles from one bridge to Greenwich, and she did that 209 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: while wearing the full skirted dress, petticoats, pantaloons and stockings, 210 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: kind of demonstrating that even with all of that swimming 211 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: costume on, she could still keep up with the guys. 212 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: She was just as strong as one of the guys. 213 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: And then we also have American Amelia Bloomer, who instituted 214 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: uh the Bloomers. We are aware of the clothing Bloomers 215 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: named after her that she started wearing to replace having 216 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: to wear the full skirt when she swam. So now 217 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: we're in the early nine president, and I think that 218 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: you know, the contribution of someone like back with it. 219 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: She shows that swimming is a sport, it needs a 220 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: sports like costume. And so yes, those full bathing dresses 221 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: gradually faded away. Eventually, those huge Bloomer pants eventually faded away, 222 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: and you could wear, respectively, a one piece thing that covered, 223 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: you know, from you from your your neck basically to 224 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: your mid thigh. Yeah. And and a lot of that 225 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: had to do with uh a killer men's arrest because 226 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: that's set off kind of a whole controversy of well, 227 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: should she have been arrested for that isn't really indecent exposure? 228 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: And so that opened the door for you know, saying, no, 229 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. Women are drowning in weighted down dresses. So 230 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: that brings the rise of wois known as the mayo. Yeah, 231 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: and by nineteen fifteen, this was what American women were 232 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: commonly wearing. Now, let me just spell myo four you 233 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: in case you want to like google images of them, 234 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: because there's so many types of them. It's m A 235 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: I L l O T. It's the French word for 236 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: swaddling clothes because when I think of bathing suits, I 237 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: think of swaddling clothes. Um. But you know they were 238 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: they kind of buried in size and style, so you 239 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: could wear one that really covered you up, you could 240 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: wear one that was a little bit more risque. And 241 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: one pieces. The term one pieces pretty much replaced mayo, 242 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: but essential if you're wearing a one piece. It's my own. Yes. 243 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: Now into the twenties and thirties, we do have the 244 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: emergence of the two piece, not the bikini though. People 245 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: two pieces a separate thing from the bikini because these 246 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: two pieces covered up the navel. They would they would 247 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: come up and sit pretty high up on on your 248 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: natural waist and then you would have a pretty pretty covered, 249 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: pretty solid covering for the top to to make this 250 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: this two piece and uh and I love this. By 251 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: the end of the nineteen twenties, we had a lot 252 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: of different novelty suits that were associated with two pieces. 253 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: So you'd have like a sailor themed suit or maybe 254 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: a leopard printed suit. Like they really went wild with 255 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: this with with these new this new swimwhere provided you 256 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: didn't see the navel. And that's what I think. It 257 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: is so funny. I mean, everyone has a belly button, 258 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: you know. But largely Hollywood influenced this because the Hollywood 259 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: Hayze Code prohibited actresses from showing their navel. Yeah, and 260 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: so I mean you think about all those starletts who 261 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: are wearing those two pieces. They you know, we're they 262 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: seem so sexy, but they're not showing their belly button 263 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: of all things. Now, I should mention that in the 264 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: thirties we do have the arrival of the bowhouse. But 265 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: the bow house is probably not something that you have 266 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: ever really seen on many beaches because the bow house 267 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: style was basically a pair of swim trunks with suspenders 268 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: for the top. Very naughty. It's Kristen's favorite bathing sees style, 269 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: the bowhouse style. Shall you be sporting it this summer? 270 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: I shall not? All right, you know what, it's the 271 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: history of the bikini we need to jump ahead to. 272 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: We need to do it, Kristen Small. In order to 273 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: make the leap to bikini, we've got to leap across 274 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: the Atlantic Ocean and go to France. Great and in France, 275 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: two men, independently of each other, came up with the 276 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: idea for the bikini. We've got Jacque Coim and Louis Reared. 277 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: I don't know how to give that a French a 278 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: French twist now, according to Kelly ben Simone, and that 279 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: name might ring a bell to any other fans of 280 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: the Real Housewives of New York City. But according to 281 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: Kelly ben Simone, who wrote the book, actually a good book, 282 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: called the Bikini book that traces the history of the bikini. Um. 283 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: She says that attractive women back then were known as bombshells. 284 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: We know this, and anything intense was atomic, so the 285 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: bombshell atomic lingo of the day. So the two frenchmen, 286 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: while they're deciding what to call their new skimpy swimwear, 287 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: they decided to give them nuclear nicknames. So Jacque him 288 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: called his swimsuit the atom a T O M E 289 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: like Adam bomb. And then Louis reared introduced on July four, 290 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: Le biki me. And that's because the United States had 291 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: started atomic testing on the Bikini Atoll, right, So essentially 292 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: the bikini is named after bomb testing. Yeah, so it 293 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: is really odd there's a connection between bikinis and bombs. Bombs, 294 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: Adam bombs. But he's pepa. His invention was going to 295 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: be as revolutionary as the bomb. Now. I think we 296 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: should say though, that when Reard wanted to introduce his 297 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: bikini to the public, he couldn't get models to put 298 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: it on. It was too risque, so instead he had 299 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: to hire stripper Micheline Bernardini. That's my terrible French accent. 300 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: Micheline Bernardini was a stripper who was enlisted to model it, 301 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: and photos of her in this bikini just circulated throughout 302 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: the world and the bikini became sensation. First of all, 303 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: of course, it was totally scandalized in the US, and personally, 304 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: I would have scandalized it too because no fence, micheline, 305 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: but it kind of looks like you're wearing a string diaper. Yes, 306 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: Christa was not a fan of the first pekinia. It 307 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: was not the most flattering thing, and uh so, yeah, 308 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: it was very scandalous. Scars and said no miles aware. 309 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: And in the US, wine the swimsuit designers said that 310 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: this was only for frenchwoman because they were so short. 311 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: It was just the only thing they could do to 312 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: even make it look like they had any sort of 313 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: body at all. But then in the fifties, early fifties, 314 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: we have the arrival of Bridget Bardo. Embardo looks fantastic 315 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: in a bikini and she has very long legs, and 316 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: uh so there goes that argument out the window, and 317 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: gradually they just become more and more popular. Well, there's 318 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: the rise of the private pool. Yeah, so you don't 319 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: have to go, you know, the swimsuit comes into boat 320 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: because we can all take the railroads and go to 321 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: the beach. Now you can sim in your own backyard. 322 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: No one needs to see that you were wearing something 323 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: that's considered vulgar and only worn by crude, you know, 324 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: European types. But even in nineteen fifties seven, and this 325 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: is according to an article that we found in Slate, 326 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: there was an issue of the magazine Modern Girl that said, 327 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: it's hardly necessary to raise words over the so called 328 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: bikini since it's inconceivable that any girl with techt indecency 329 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: would ever wear such a thing. So even though you 330 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: know seven, no girl would wear such a thing. By 331 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, in Time magazine, everyone reports writing them. 332 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: So it's a very quick adoption. They go from being 333 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: very vulgar two very accepted, extremely quickly. Yeah. Nineteen sixty seven, 334 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: Time Magazine features a survey claiming that sixty of young 335 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: women had already gone over to bikini's. And part of that, 336 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: again was Hollywood's influence. Once those codes were relaxed, and 337 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: one could you know, gas show enable on the movies. 338 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: Think about like the James Bomb movie where she comes 339 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 1: out of the water that gold bikini. I mean there 340 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: are very uh strong image images associated with bathing suits 341 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: in the nine Oh yeah, Raquel Welsh one million years BC. Yeah, 342 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: that's that's quite a bikini bod. But with all this 343 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: talk about bikini's molly, there's one thing that we haven't 344 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: talked about yet, and that's Sports Illustrated. Now, as I 345 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: said at the beginning, you could make the argument as 346 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: Kristen did, that the bikini is a pretty empowering piece 347 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: of clothing because it allows you to be free and 348 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: go swimming and you're not hindered by you know, your 349 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: bloomers or your bathing machine. I do think that body 350 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: issues aside that you can tie into it, it is 351 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: a pretty cool thing that finally women were allowed to 352 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: just swim unencumbered. Yeah, Because, once again, as this often 353 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: happens in my podcast research, the notion that I had 354 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: going into learning about bikinis was different than the notion 355 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: that I had coming out of it, Because when we 356 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: think of bikinis today, I feel like it's so loaded 357 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: with body issues and fulfilling the male gaze and things 358 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: like Sports Illustrated and over emphasis on breast size, all 359 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: of this stuff without really appreciating this history and the 360 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 1: struggle for women to literally cast off all of this 361 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: extra clothing so that they could swim right alongside men 362 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: and not be literally and metaphorically molly weighted down by 363 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: the constraints of heteronormative society. Yeah, you get to go 364 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: to the beach and actually enjoy your vacation because you're 365 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: not stuck in your bathing machine that's rolling you to 366 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: the water. You can play on the sand, you can swim. 367 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: As christ And said, without being metaphorically weighed down, I 368 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: was pretty impressed with like the history of the bikini. 369 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: But then, as christ And just said, we got our 370 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: brain Sports Illustrated into it. The first quote unquote Sports 371 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: Illustrated Swimsuit edition came out in nineteen sixty four. But 372 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: it didn't have anything to do with a bunch of 373 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: sports editors wanting to publish photos of scantily clad women. 374 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: It really had to do with a lack of sports 375 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: news to cover. So they're like, hey, we got some 376 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: extra editorial space to fill. I've got an idea, let's 377 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: put in a picture of a woman in a bikini. Yeah. 378 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: It was all about like going diving in the Caribbean 379 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: you know, there was almost even you know, a little 380 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: bit of a story. They'd even call it the swimsuit issue. 381 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's just like, hey, here's some there's something's 382 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: gonna wear the next time you're in the Caribbean sporting. 383 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: It didn't actually become a standalone product until nineven, when 384 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: a very young, very buxom Tyra Banks and a very 385 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: iconic photo graced the cover of the very four first 386 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: actual standalone sports Illustrated Swimsuit. Addition, No, I think the 387 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: reason that people get so worked up about the swimsuit 388 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: issue is that very quickly they abandoned traditional ideas of 389 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: what a swimsuit is like night Cheryl Tigus wears a 390 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: see through fishnet one piece, so at that point, you're like, 391 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: this is not really illustrating something I can wear while 392 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: I'm being sporting on the beach. This is just you're 393 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: trying to see through. And then we have Heidi Klum 394 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: standing there in a quote unquote painted swimsuit, which is 395 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: actually Clum just standing naked with some ti tyed paint 396 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: all over her torso. So I think that that's part 397 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: of why it's so controversial, is like, you know, if 398 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: you can separate all the body issues from the bikini 399 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: and then just think, oh, this is something I wear 400 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: while I'm on the beach. Like Gabriel Reese, the volleyball player, 401 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: competes in a bikini. And so if you can take 402 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: this thing that was like, hey, here's something, here's a 403 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: healthy woman, perfectly happy in the surf. Let's have her 404 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: hold her boobs and paint a bikini on her. Then yeah, 405 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: the bikini comes like this objectification of women. Yeah. I 406 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: was really surprised also when I was researching this subject 407 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: because I and maybe it was just because I wasn't 408 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: looking hard enough, but I did not come across any 409 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: academic papers as I was expecting to really dissecting, you know, 410 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: the feminism and the bikini and kind of this idea 411 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: of you know, women being objectified as sex objects when 412 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: they put on these bikini Like what kind of messages 413 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: are we sending out to people? Is it healthy for 414 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: us to wear these things all of all of the stuff, 415 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: you know. But then I came to the conclusion that 416 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: maybe that's because it should be an empowering thing, and 417 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: it's actually I largely blame uh Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition 418 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: for attaching all these body issues to bikinis, because I 419 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: feel like it wasn't until Sports Illustrated that you have 420 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: this cultural idea of what a woman should look like 421 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: in a bikini. Not to say that, you know, Sports 422 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: Illustrated is responsible for body issues that women have probably 423 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: had throughout time, um, but I do think that it 424 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: probably had a lot to do with, um, feeling inadequate 425 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: when you put one on, even if you're perfectly healthy 426 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: and fit right. And I liked this quote from Slate 427 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: by Brian Curtis. He wrote, Sports Illustrated editors have always 428 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: thought obliged to pretend that the swimsuit issue is a 429 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: source of massive national controversy. This is best observed in 430 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: their insistence two weeks after the annual issue on printing 431 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: correspondence from outraged parents and smirched librarians. So here you 432 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: have this magazine that you know, fifty one weeks out 433 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: of the year, it's just football, basketball, baseball, et cetera. 434 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: And then when week at the year, they're like half 435 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: naked women. This is so crazy. We're getting banned in 436 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: the supermarkets because people aren't don't know what to do. 437 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: And I think that they know themselves fed that sort 438 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: of spectacle of hey, this is this is crazy that 439 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: we do this, Well, look how radical we are. And 440 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: it also overly sexualizes the bikini what started out as 441 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: basically a uniform for a recreational activity, just like you 442 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: put on jogging shorts when you're gonna go for a run. 443 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: It turns it into, um, something totally eroticized. I mean, 444 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: when Molly and I were talking about this earlier, kind 445 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: of um coming to terms with I guess the message 446 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: that it sends when you are walking down the beach 447 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: in a bikini kind of bearing all. Um. It's kind 448 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: of hard because I don't think that you can ever 449 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: remove the erotic from a naked woman's body. And I 450 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing. I think 451 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: that that's part of it. But I think it is 452 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: unfortunate that the bikini has become such a source of 453 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: angst for women, um, whereas it should be I think 454 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,959 Speaker 1: a source of empowerment. Yeah. Well, on that note, I mean, 455 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: I can't say any better myself. We want your thoughts 456 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: on the bikini. Our email addresses mom stuff at house 457 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: stuffworks dot com. Is the bikini empowering? Is it the 458 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: worst thing that ever happened. Are you excited about summer? 459 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: Are you excited the vintage one piece Maya's are coming 460 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: back into style? I know they are. You can find 461 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: some really cute Maya's this season, very flattering. Well, send 462 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: us your thoughts. Our email is mom stuff at house 463 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, or if you would like to 464 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: share your thoughts with other listeners, you should head over 465 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: to our Facebook page. It is Facebook dot com backslash 466 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never told you, or you can just search 467 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never told you in your handy Facebook search bar, 468 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: as you probably know. And now we'll do a little 469 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: bit of listener mail. We're gonna summarize a little bit 470 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: today and not read line by line just because we've 471 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: got a lot of email on our Japanese Condom Sales podcast, 472 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: very mixed reactions. Um, so let's get into some of them. 473 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: So first, let's start with a pretty pretty good correction. 474 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: I think we got that we may not have defined 475 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: all the terms related to manga and autaka culture as 476 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: narrowly as you might, and so we might have painted 477 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: all people who read manga as people who's love with 478 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: body pillows, and that is definitely not true. You can. 479 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: You can obviously make there are tons of genres and 480 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: we might have just sort of grouped them all together 481 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: for use of our own podcast, which is never the 482 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: way we should do things here. Yeah, and uh, speaking 483 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: of the Otaku moa and sleeping with body pillows, we 484 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: were called out for jumping on a media trend that 485 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: paints an unfair portrait of a very small group of 486 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: men in Japan and extrapolates set to the entire population, 487 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: and that wasn't what Molly and I were trying to do. Admittedly, 488 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: there were not that many articles that we found specifically 489 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: about the moe associated with the pillow thing, okay um, 490 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: but there were a lot of articles going back to 491 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: the mid nineties about this idea of Japanese men um 492 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: some Japanese men as herbivores versus carnivores, which we talked about. 493 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: And if you want more info and that, of course, 494 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: you can go back and listen to the podcast. But 495 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,479 Speaker 1: I would like to clarify that our research did go 496 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: back more than uh the episode of thirty Rock with 497 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: James Franco in an article in the New York Times magazine, right, 498 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, people thought it was just once one weird 499 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: story we had gotten out of Japan, and we weren't 500 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: taking japan culture as a whole. But as you said, 501 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: they go back many years now. Let's also point out 502 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: that the title was a little bit tongue in cheek, yes, 503 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: because we've got many emails that tried to explain to 504 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: us all the reasons why Japanese condom sales might be dropping, 505 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: and these included things like the aging of the Japanese population, 506 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: the Japanese attitude towards work. One woman wrote in and 507 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: she had a Japanese boyfriend. He has to work, you know, 508 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: sixt hours a week, and so she's like, of course, 509 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: you know you sleep when you get home after that 510 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: kind of work week, you may not be having as 511 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: much sex um. One person pointed out that the age 512 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: at which Japanese youth lose theirporginity is actually not that 513 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: different than in the US, So obviously, you know, it's 514 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: it's a complex as you and the and the point 515 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: we were trying to make with the title was admittedly 516 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: to get your attention, which it did, but it wasn't 517 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: to try to the answer to that question in the 518 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: podcast was not, uh, Japanese condom sales have dropped because 519 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: people read manga. That wasn't the point at all. So 520 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: thanks to all of you though, who wrote in response 521 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: to it, whether you had criticisms or praise. Molly and 522 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: I need to hear it all um. So again, our 523 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: email is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com. 524 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: You can also follow us during the week on our 525 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: Twitter it is mom Stuff podcast. Join us on there, 526 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: and then you can finally head over to our brand 527 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: new blog it's called stuff Mom Never told You Surprise, 528 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: and you can find that blog at how stuff works 529 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, 530 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: is that how stuff works dot com. Want more how 531 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: stuff works, check out our blogs on the house stuff 532 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: works dot com home page. Brought to you by the 533 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you