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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: I love a book with a map and a glossary,

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Speaker 2: But why don't I see myself reflected? And one faithful Saturday,

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Speaker 2: I go and I see parable of the Sewer and

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Speaker 2: there's a black woman on the cover. There's an illustration

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Speaker 2: of a black woman, and it blew my mind. And

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Speaker 2: I borrowed the book, you know, took that home, read

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Speaker 2: it and it changed the course of my life.

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Speaker 3: Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just

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Speaker 3: doesn't get you? Well, we do.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 1: and empowering women like you.

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Speaker 3: We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Brussard and educator and psychologists.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.

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Speaker 3: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from

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Speaker 3: fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black

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Speaker 3: women to just.

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Speaker 1: B Before we dive in, make sure you hit that

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Speaker 1: follow button and leave us a quick five star review. Lady,

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Speaker 1: we are black founded and black owned, and your support

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Speaker 1: will help us reach even more women like you.

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Speaker 3: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 3: It's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

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Speaker 3: Are you currently a resident of the state of California

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Speaker 3: and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please

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Speaker 3: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

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Speaker 3: That's d R D O M I N I q

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Speaker 3: U E b r O U ss ar D dot

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Speaker 3: com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation.

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Speaker 1: I look forward to hearing from you today. We have

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Speaker 1: such a powerful guest. Okay, we are honored to be

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Speaker 1: in conversation with doctor Susannah M. Morris. Susannah is a

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Speaker 1: black feminist, scholar and cultural critic whose work centers the interior,

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Speaker 1: lives and experiences of black women. She's an Associate professor

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Speaker 1: of Literature, Media, and Communication at Georgia Tech and the

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Speaker 1: co founder of the Krunk Feminist Collective. She's held distinguished

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Speaker 1: fellowship and visiting professorship positions at Princeton University and the

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Speaker 1: University of Michigan. Susannah is the author of Positive Obsession,

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Speaker 1: The Life and Times of Octavia E.

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Speaker 2: Butler.

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Speaker 1: Her other works include Close Kin and Distant Relatives, The

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Speaker 1: Paradox of Respectability, and Black Women's Literature. The co edited Collection,

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Speaker 1: The Krunk Feminist Collection, and the co authored young adult

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Speaker 1: guide Feminist af The Guide to Crushing Girlhood. Well these titles, okay.

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Speaker 1: Her work has appeared in outlets such as Gawker, Longreads,

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Speaker 1: Cosmopolitan dot com, and Avenue dot com, and she's been

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Speaker 1: featured on platforms including NPR, the BBC, The New York Times,

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Speaker 1: and Essence magazine. The Lady let me tell you something. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there is so much more that we could say about

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Speaker 1: Susannah and her contribution to black feminist thought and culture.

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Speaker 1: But lady, we're going to go ahead and jump into

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Speaker 1: this conversation so you can hear directly from her. Susannah,

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Speaker 1: welcome to cultivating her space.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited

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Speaker 2: to be here.

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Speaker 3: You're so welcome, Yes, and the feeling is mutual. We

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Speaker 3: are excited to have you here. And so we are

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Speaker 3: going to start with our quote of the day. And

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Speaker 3: this quote comes to us from your book Positive Obsessions,

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Speaker 3: and it is something that Octavia Butler said, Black women

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Speaker 3: writers are necessary so that black women can define and

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Speaker 3: depict their own experiences rather than being objects in the

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Speaker 3: stories of others. And I'm gonna read that one more

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Speaker 3: time for the folks in the back to make sure

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Speaker 3: you heard this. Black women writers are necessary so that

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Speaker 3: black women can define and depict their own experiences rather

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Speaker 3: than being objects in the stories of others.

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Speaker 1: Ooh okay, I mean.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know where we're supposed to go from that, right,

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Speaker 3: Like Mike Drive all right podcast, I'm so done. That

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Speaker 3: quote from Octavia is so so powerful and so and

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Speaker 3: that quote is found within your book and so so

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Speaker 3: tell us, Susanna about what this particular quote means to

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Speaker 3: you in terms of writing about Octavia Butler. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: the quote really encapsulates the focus of my career, right,

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Speaker 3: which is looking at how black women write ourselves into space,

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Speaker 3: into spaces, right, creating spaces for ourselves. And Octavia is

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Speaker 3: a trailblazer in a particular kind of way because she

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Speaker 3: is the first black woman to primarily publish in science

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Speaker 3: fiction and fantasy genres that really people you know, have

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Speaker 3: thought and sometimes still do think, are relegated. They're for

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Speaker 3: white boys, they're for white men, live.

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Speaker 2: For men in general. And so she didn't let that

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Speaker 2: kind of notion overdetermine what her possibilities were, right. She

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Speaker 2: was committed to creating robust, complicated, flawed characters. And so

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Speaker 2: she's in conversation with your Tony Morrison's and your Alice Walkers,

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Speaker 2: and your Tony Cavem Barras and your n K j

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Speaker 2: Emersons and all the people, right, And so I think

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Speaker 2: that's what that quote really ependomizes for me.

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Speaker 1: It's so beautiful, such a great grounding quote for this conversation.

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Speaker 1: And Susanna, we are going to ask about your origin story,

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Speaker 1: what we want to learn more about your background, But

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Speaker 1: before we dive into that, I think it's important for

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Speaker 1: us to set the table for listeners, especially black women

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Speaker 1: listeners who might be meeting Octavity Butler for the first time.

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Speaker 1: I know this felt like a research project for me

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Speaker 1: that I was loving. It was different from school back

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Speaker 1: in the day. I was like, I love this, this

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Speaker 1: is so interesting. So can we talk about just I

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Speaker 1: guess you know, I know presentation matters, right, we often

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Speaker 1: hear that, but when we think about Octavia's work, it

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Speaker 1: goes beyond representation right into prophecy. I know she says

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Speaker 1: she's not a prophet, but prophecy power and possibility. So

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Speaker 1: can you talk to us about, in your words, why

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Speaker 1: is essential for black women to know Octavia Butler and

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Speaker 1: the significance of her work right now, and honestly, like

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Speaker 1: what shifts when we encounter her, just to kind of

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Speaker 1: start there and then we'll dive a bit deeper.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: So in the essay Positive Obsession, which is where I

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Speaker 2: get the titles from my book, Octavia closes by talking

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Speaker 2: about like why science fiction is important for black people

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Speaker 2: more generally, and just to paraphrase her, she's like, science

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Speaker 2: fiction is forward looking, it's expansive. It gets us off

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Speaker 2: the sort of you know, regular footpath that we're all

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Speaker 2: on and gets us to sort of think differently. And

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Speaker 2: that is particularly significant for black folk and for black

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Speaker 2: women even more particularly right because of these controlling images

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Speaker 2: that have overdetermined often how we see ourselves, you know,

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Speaker 2: are internalized white supremacy that we may have internalized, patriarchy, colorism,

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Speaker 2: all the various things, right, these shackles that we have

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Speaker 2: to throw off of ourselves. And so reading somebody like

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Speaker 2: an Octavia Butler, who not only have again these complex, flawed, interesting,

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Speaker 2: robust characters, but they're also in scenarios that are literally

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Speaker 2: out of this world for the most part, except for

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Speaker 2: the Parable series. It's that's definitely here on our earth.

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Speaker 2: But you know, sometimes we don't see ourselves reflected in

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Speaker 2: these kinds of narratives. And she's like, actually, we do

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Speaker 2: belong here. Because the kinds of existential questions that science

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Speaker 2: fiction and fantasy kind of invites you to consider. Black

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Speaker 2: women need to be at the center of those conversations.

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Speaker 2: They're not conversations for other people simply to have. These

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Speaker 2: are human questions.

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Speaker 3: Ooh, okay, all right, I mean I already there are

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Speaker 3: so many other questions that are coming up for me

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Speaker 3: as you share that in so many ways, in different

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Speaker 3: directions in which this discussion can go. But I do

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Speaker 3: want us to back up and let's talk about your

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Speaker 3: origin story and how did you get to be the

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Speaker 3: doctor Morris that sits in front of us, in front

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Speaker 3: of us today, that doctor Morris and your students referred

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Speaker 3: to you as. And how did it become that you

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Speaker 3: are so passionate about getting Oxavia Butler's story out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I am from all over, but I went

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Speaker 2: to middle school and high school in Fort Lauderdale, Florida,

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Speaker 2: and that is where I encountered Otavia's work. Literally just

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Speaker 2: going through the library one day. I was in high school,

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Speaker 2: just a few years after Parable Sower was published, and

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Speaker 2: I'd never heard of Octavia Butler. We didn't really read

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Speaker 2: black literature in my high school. And I was in

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Speaker 2: a fancy magnet program, international baccalaureate program. We're all headed

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Speaker 2: to college and all that. We're reading all the Shakespeare

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Speaker 2: that we could find, all of the classics, but we

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Speaker 2: were not reading black literature. We weren't reading Langston Hughes

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Speaker 2: or County Cullen or insert xyz named Tony Morrison. We

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Speaker 2: weren't reading those people. So it was up to me

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Speaker 2: to supplement my education, which I did. But my favorite

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Speaker 2: genre was fantasy. So I was like, Okay, I'm reading

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Speaker 2: this black literature, but they're not coinciding. And I was

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Speaker 2: actually getting kind of frustrated with reading fantasy because I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I love this genre. I love a book with a

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Speaker 2: map and a glossary, But why don't I see myself reflected?

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Speaker 2: And one faithful Saturday, I go and I see Parable

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Speaker 2: of the Sower and there's a black woman on the cover.

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Speaker 2: There's an illustration of the black woman, and it blew

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Speaker 2: my mind. And I borrowed the book, you know, took

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Speaker 2: it home, read it, and it changed the course of

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Speaker 2: my life, you know. And then I would continue to

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Speaker 2: encounter her work as I progressed in my studies and

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Speaker 2: you know, became a black feminist, you know, professor and

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Speaker 2: literature professor. So I would always teach some aspect of

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Speaker 2: Octavia's Cannis, so maybe Candred, maybe a short story, you know,

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Speaker 2: something like that. And then I just was like, Okay, really,

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Speaker 2: what I'm teaching is black science section and fantasy. And

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Speaker 2: because I'm nosy, I wanted to know more about Octavia's story.

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Speaker 2: That's the real, real truth is I'm nosy, and I

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Speaker 2: would be reading, you know, and assigning interviews and things

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Speaker 2: from my class, so I wanted to know more. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to know more about her. You know, there's some

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Speaker 2: authors where there's just like tons of material, and there

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Speaker 2: was material out there, and you can, you know, read

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Speaker 2: interviews by her. There are interviews about Octavia or allb

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Speaker 2: Octavia on YouTube. But I wanted to know more. And

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Speaker 2: when she passed away into thousand and six, she left

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Speaker 2: behind like a really voluminous pressure trol of an archives.

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Speaker 2: She kept every receipt, every diary entry. She has diary

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Speaker 2: entries from you know, high school, her mother's diaries in there.

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Speaker 2: She kept every bill, every prescription label. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: a lot. It was lots of way through, but that

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Speaker 2: was a place where I could get the answers that

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Speaker 2: I saw. So that's sort of the trajectory.

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Speaker 1: It was so beautiful to one. You're a great storyteller.

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Speaker 1: I was envisioning you at the library in Florida. You're welcome,

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Speaker 1: like seeing the book. And then when you when we

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Speaker 1: were preparing, I was going to ask like, did you

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Speaker 1: ever have a chance to talk to her?

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Speaker 2: Interviewer?

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Speaker 1: And I saw she passed away, and my heart broke

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Speaker 1: for you. I'm like, I wanted Suzanna to be able

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Speaker 1: to meet her and talk to her as well. So

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Speaker 1: I have to ask you, right, it's been almost what

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Speaker 1: almost twenty years or so since she's passed away, or

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Speaker 1: she since she's left this physical plane. So I'm curious

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Speaker 1: and your writing process right in the archives and those

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Speaker 1: quiet moments, did you feel her? Did you experience any

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Speaker 1: signs or any synchronicities or any moments where were like

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Speaker 1: I think that was her. I would love to hear

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Speaker 1: about that, and I will say if the answer is no,

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Speaker 1: can you talk about what happened inside of you as

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Speaker 1: you were gathering and shaping her story?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I talked about this with one of my fellows,

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Speaker 2: sister writers, sister biographers, Alexis Pauline Dumbs, and as I

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Speaker 2: was wrapping up my book, and I'm, you know, interviewing her,

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Speaker 2: and she's very spiritual and she's recently written a biography

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Speaker 2: of Audrey Lord, and you know, so she's like, I'm

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Speaker 2: communing with Audrey Lord. I'm in the archive, and she's

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Speaker 2: just like, but I Tavia is a different kind of ancestor,

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, Octavia was a different kind of

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Speaker 2: is a different kind of ancestor. So in her life,

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Speaker 2: you know, she was raised Baptist, knew a lot about

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Speaker 2: the church, knew a lot about the Bible, but really

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Speaker 2: was an agnostic kind of atheist person. So I didn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily feel like, oh, her spirit with me, but her

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Speaker 2: energy of like getting your butt in the seat and right,

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Speaker 2: that's Octavia. Habit over talent, that's Octavia. You over here

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Speaker 2: sit and crying and going through something. Finish the book,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Not that she didn't have

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Speaker 2: compassion as a person, or anything like that. But I

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Speaker 2: didn't have that kind of fluffy interaction with the ancestors.

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Speaker 2: It was like your call to do this, so do

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Speaker 2: it right. So a thing that you know she wrote

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Speaker 2: in her manifestations, which you know, I know had been

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Speaker 2: going across the internet, and I include a page of

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Speaker 2: it in my book. She would often end her manifestations

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Speaker 2: would so be it see to it? Right. So if

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Speaker 2: you declare you're going to do something, then you have

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Speaker 2: to make it happen. And that's how I signed copies

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Speaker 2: of my book too, right, So be it c to

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Speaker 2: it because that really is the mantra that was in

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Speaker 2: the back of my mind as I was working. So

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Speaker 2: that was like the spiritual kind of aspect to it

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Speaker 2: for me. You know.

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Speaker 3: That was almost as we were trying to decide on

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Speaker 3: a quote of the day, that was that was our

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Speaker 3: that was the second runner up for the quote of

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Speaker 3: the day.

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Speaker 2: So be it see to it.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm feeling that quote just yeah as you

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Speaker 3: were saying it. So what we know is that like

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Speaker 3: Octavia like so like like quite a few other black

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Speaker 3: women writers, like one of my faves, Zora Neil Hurston,

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Speaker 3: didn't enjoy the fame and the accolades while they were

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Speaker 3: present here on earth. So why do you think her

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Speaker 3: legacy has endured then? But more so, like her popularity

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Speaker 3: has grown so much since her death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she got to experience a little bit

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Speaker 2: of it. But she she died so young. She died

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Speaker 2: at fifty eight, you know, and so in her forties,

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Speaker 2: you know, she wins the MacArthur, you know, Genius Fellowship, right,

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Speaker 2: which is huge. That is a huge honor. It's something

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Speaker 2: that you can't nominate yourself for. It happens behind the scenes.

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Speaker 2: Other people nominate you and write letters for you, and

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Speaker 2: then they call you up and say you won. Right,

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Speaker 2: And she's the first black well, first science fiction writer

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Speaker 2: to win a MacArthur of any race or gender. So

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Speaker 2: we'll start there, right, So she got to see some

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Speaker 2: but after so many years of laboring in the vineyard, right,

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Speaker 2: I think because she died suddenly and there was so

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Speaker 2: much work that we were waiting on. Right, she was

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Speaker 2: supposed to continue the Parable series, which you know sort

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Speaker 2: of exists in bits and pieces in her archive. You know,

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Speaker 2: she published a novel the year before she died, and

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Speaker 2: so that sort of that novel ends with the kind

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Speaker 2: of implication that Okay, there's going to be sequels. There

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Speaker 2: was just so much, so much more she had to

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Speaker 2: share with us, and I think that the age of

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Speaker 2: the Internet helped that, you know, we're able to sort

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Speaker 2: of spread her community, like we can interact with one another.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to be an academic to be a

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Speaker 2: lover of Octavi or Butler right to be a fan

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Speaker 2: or a stand those kinds of things. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that her sudden death immortalized her in a

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Speaker 2: particular kind of way. And sometimes this is unfortunate, but

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Speaker 2: people do get more love sometimes after they're gone. Right.

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Speaker 2: We see that with you know, fine artists, visual artists,

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Speaker 2: where it's like, oh yeah, this person twirled in obscurity

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Speaker 2: and then they died and it's like there's stuff was

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Speaker 2: worth a million dollars, you know. So it wasn't quite

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Speaker 2: that dramatic with Octavia, but there is certainly, I would

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Speaker 2: say in renaissance. I mean that's the term that another

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Speaker 2: writer who's written really beautifully about Octavia's life. I know,

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Speaker 2: George wrote about, you know, a renaissance in Octavia's kind

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Speaker 2: of cannon, like people are interested more and more every

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Speaker 2: day the adaptations the tell which just show you know,

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Speaker 2: all those things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so amazing, And I'm thinking about what you

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Speaker 1: said earlier. I remember a line in the book where

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Speaker 1: she said something like, don't depend on inspiration, depend on habit.

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Speaker 1: And so in all your research, it'd be really nice

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Speaker 1: to know how does she practice her calling? Because I

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Speaker 1: think I also saw something else where it said all

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Speaker 1: I do is write, or like all I'm here for

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Speaker 1: is writing, or something along those lines, And so what

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Speaker 1: would you say black women can learn from her discipline?

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Speaker 1: And how does she practice her calling?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so when I Pavia went to the Clarion Writers' Workshop,

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Speaker 2: which is this famous science fiction and fantasy workshop. She

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Speaker 2: went in nineteen seventy and she felt like this is

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Speaker 2: a place where I really learned to home in my craft.

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Speaker 2: So she published two short stories after being in that

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Speaker 2: workshop in nineteen seventy, But between nineteen seventy one and

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six she didn't publish anything. She kept on

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Speaker 2: sending things out and she kept on getting notes right.

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Speaker 2: And while she's doing this, she's working odd jobs. She's

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Speaker 2: working in factories, she's singing office buildings, she's working in

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Speaker 2: like hotel laundries, like she's doing really hard physical labor

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Speaker 2: so that she can have odd hours and write whenever

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Speaker 2: she needs to write. So I tell that story because

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Speaker 2: it's an unromantic, un sexy story of being a creator, right,

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Speaker 2: because I think sometimes in our age or social media,

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Speaker 2: where we only show the good things, right, we show

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Speaker 2: when you win the award, we show when you go

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Speaker 2: on the trip. You know, you don't show the boot

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Speaker 2: when he acting up or when they're being whatever. You

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Speaker 2: show them when they're acting right or you're trying to

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Speaker 2: get them back right or whatever. Right, she had so

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Speaker 2: many years of just spoiling in obscurity and poverty, quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not glamorizing that either. I'm just saying that

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Speaker 2: didn't stop her, right. She felt like she had something

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Speaker 2: to share. She had to do it. That's why she

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Speaker 2: called it a positive obsession. She couldn't stop herself from writing,

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Speaker 2: even when folks were like that, can be a hobby girl,

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Speaker 2: go ahead and get your good government job. Go ahead

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Speaker 2: and be a civil servant, be a nurse, be a teacher.

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Speaker 2: And she could have been any of those things, but

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Speaker 2: she had to be a writer. And she felt like

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Speaker 2: she had to focus her entire life on that. So

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Speaker 2: I think I think Black women already know that, though

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Speaker 2: I think we are kind of the er type of

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Speaker 2: like it stuff as hard. I'm gonna keep on doing,

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Speaker 2: you know, like that's far from my job. Let me

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Speaker 2: go get a master's, you know what I mean. So

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Speaker 2: I don't know that we need any more advice to

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Speaker 2: be on point because I think that we really have

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Speaker 2: that down. I think a thing that I've come away with,

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Speaker 2: you know, after writing this book is our table. Was

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Speaker 2: able to write twelve books, right, eleven novels and a

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Speaker 2: collection of short stories and short essays. That's a huge

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Speaker 2: cannon to have, right, and she could have done so

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Speaker 2: much more if she had more resources. So, yes, the

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Speaker 2: habit or the persistence over talent, because there's lots of

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Speaker 2: talented people who are undisciplined. Absolutely, But also I wish

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Speaker 2: that she had health insurance in the nineteen seventy. I

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Speaker 2: wish that she had somebody to help her do laundry

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Speaker 2: at her house, you know what I mean. I wish

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Speaker 2: that she had this infrastructure. And I'm preaching to myself,

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Speaker 2: but I talk about this with my homegirls, who are

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Speaker 2: also scholars. You know, running businesses, what have you? We

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Speaker 2: have to set up an infrastructure like self care is

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Speaker 2: beyond the bubble baths. It's like, can we split an assistant?

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Speaker 2: Can you hire somebody to clean your house? Okay, what's

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Speaker 2: going on? Because we can't do it all? Maybe it's

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Speaker 2: a skill share. Maybe we're all going around feeding each

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Speaker 2: other's house once a month. It's goes to a different person.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm this is not just from middle class or

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Speaker 2: upper middle folk, right, as for folks at any class level,

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Speaker 2: that we need this infrastructure and oftentimes we're the ones

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Speaker 2: holding our families together, we're the go to person at work.

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Speaker 2: So where did we get to sort of foreign to ourselves? Right?

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Speaker 2: And Octavia didn't always have that in her life. She

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Speaker 2: was creating in spite of not having the resources. So

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Speaker 2: rather than emphasize discipline, which I think is important, I

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Speaker 2: really want us to emphasize care.

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Speaker 1: My drop on that that is so powerful. Thank you, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that is so important.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So speaking of the infrastructure and the support system and

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Speaker 3: the sisterhood, talk to us, tell us about the k

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Speaker 3: Feminist collective and for those of us who for those

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Speaker 3: listeners who aren't familiar, tell us more about it.

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Speaker 2: So that's my crew. We became friends in graduate school.

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Speaker 2: Now twenty years ago. It's hard to believe that I'm

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Speaker 2: a middle aged lady, but it has happened. I'm turning

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Speaker 2: forty five. Nice month. So twenty years ago, me and

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Speaker 2: my homegirls got together and this was the era of

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Speaker 2: crunk music, right where folks were talking about like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm getting crunk with that person, meaning you know, you

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Speaker 2: might have to get in someone's face, she might have

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Speaker 2: to tell them what it is. And so we put

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Speaker 2: together crunk and feminists, being like, this is a type

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Speaker 2: of feminists we are. We're hip hop generation feminists. Most

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Speaker 2: of us are rooted in the South some kind of way,

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Speaker 2: and so that's how we came up with the name.

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Speaker 2: And then fast forward to twenty ten. Brittany Cooper and

396
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Speaker 2: myself were talking. We were both professors in the state

397
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Speaker 2: of Alabama. I was at Auburn, she was at Alabama,

398
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Speaker 2: and we were young professors and we thought like, we're

399
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Speaker 2: kind to write about PLoP culture and politics in a

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Speaker 2: way that our day jobs didn't necessarily allow. And so

401
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: at the time it was like height of like blogging,

402
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: you know, and blogging was free we didn't have resources,

403
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: you know, except ourselves, So we just hit up all

404
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: of our friends that we knew were dope writers, and

405
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Speaker 2: we started this blog. And now we you know, published

406
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Speaker 2: two books, you know, one edited collection of our blogging

407
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 2: that came out in twenty seventeen and then a young

408
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Speaker 2: adult handbook that came out in twenty twenty one. And

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Speaker 2: we now have a subset because you know, we got

410
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Speaker 2: to go with the time, so it's not in blog,

411
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Speaker 2: it's a subset. So, you know, having this crew, which

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Speaker 2: we modeled ourselves after the Combahee River Collective, so Barbara

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Speaker 2: Smith and her comrades in the nineteen seventies. We're black

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Speaker 2: feminists who were like, okay, we're fighting for you know,

415
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Speaker 2: particular kinds of rights and to be understood in particular

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Speaker 2: kinds of ways, who themselves named themselves after the Combahee River,

417
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Speaker 2: you know, where Harriet Tubman was doing all of her

418
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Speaker 2: five stuff during the Civil War. So we try to

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Speaker 2: think about ourselves and that kind of lineage of you know,

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Speaker 2: black women, black black woman's sisterhood, black feminism, and so on.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, we are a group that writes together, but

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Speaker 2: we're also friends that literally have that mutual aid with

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Speaker 2: one another as well.

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Speaker 1: It's so inspiring. Oh my goodness. So one's fine giving

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Speaker 1: us all ideas on how we can create lasting legacies

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Speaker 1: as well. And I think it's just so amazing too

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Speaker 1: that even though I'll Tavia about their transition twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: like this book is out and like people are learning

429
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: more about her and her work and can go back

430
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: and read some of her other content. I wanted to

431
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: ask you a question. Oh man, I think it escaped

432
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: me at the moment. I had a question for you.

433
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to know, let me see that it'll come back.

434
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: I'll come into another question I had if this comes back,

435
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: will circle back to it. But one of the things

436
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about, Susannah is this had

437
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: me cracking out when I read this part. Okay, so

438
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: you described how wild Seed. You said it's unapologetically weird.

439
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: So there were black immortals, shape shifting and dolphins, you know,

440
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: like I loved it all, Like it was great. It

441
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: was a great book. What did Octavia? What would you say?

442
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: She gave us permission to do artistically and creatively by

443
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: being that expansive.

444
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that Altavia gave us permission to be

445
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: weird and strange, and oftentimes black girls don't get permission

446
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: to be weird and strange, right to be quiet, to

447
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 2: be reserved, to be introverted, to be you know, So

448
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 2: a story do they tell? In one of the first

449
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 2: chapters is Octavia hanging out with her friends at school

450
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: and they're all like talking about superpowers, as you do,

451
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: you know, I want to be invisible, I want to

452
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: live you know whatever. And they're like, well, what do

453
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: you want to do? And she's like, oh, I want

454
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 2: to live forever and breed people. And so that was

455
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: definitely a record stretch, like who wants to do that?

456
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: And but that basically that desire, that interest is what

457
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: became Wildseeed and the other Patterns novels. So she was

458
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: already thinking about those questions in high school, right, but

459
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 2: she was trying to find like minded folks like novels

460
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: that she loves. She'd go to like the you know,

461
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: thrift store and get or use bookstore and get copies

462
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: of them for like, you know, a nickel because this

463
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: is the nineteen fifties and sixties, and pass them out

464
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: to people, you know, her friends at church, like hey,

465
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: I want you to read this book with me. You know,

466
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: let's the equivalent of you know, today handing out I

467
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: don't know, hunger games or whatever it is, Harry Potter.

468
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: But you're a young person, right, and you're trying to

469
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: connect with other people who like those things. Maybe it's

470
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: harder for us to contemplate that now because again, we

471
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 2: do have social media, right, we have group meets, we

472
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 2: have all these different things. But back in the day,

473
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 2: fifty sixty years ago, sometimes it was harder for black

474
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: nerds to find one another, you know, especially someone who

475
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: today we would use the language of like neurodivergence. Right,

476
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: So some of o Tavia's social interactions when she was

477
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: a young person were like, you know, not what people expected.

478
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: It was hard for her to navigate socially. And so

479
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 2: I think it sort of just shows an example that

480
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 2: black women's genius looks all kind of ways. It might

481
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: be a little weird, amen to that.

482
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 3: And so as you as you were doing your research

483
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 3: and immersing yourself in not only Octavia's.

484
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: Work, but like her life.

485
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, what's something unexpected that you learned from all

486
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: of your research?

487
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean unexpected? Yeah, I would say, what was

488
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: unexpected was you know, here I am in her archive,

489
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: I'm reading her most intimate ideas. Now. She gave the

490
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: archives to the Huntington Library willingly, you know, I'll say that,

491
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: but still, you know, it felt weird sometimes being like,

492
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: you know, reading about her struggles with mental health, right,

493
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: or things like that. But what I think was most

494
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: surprising was just reading how she talked about herself. Sometimes

495
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: she was really hard on herself, and that was very

496
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: hard to read. Perhaps it shouldn't have been super surprising

497
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: because she was an artist, right, and she had high standards,

498
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: and that's not a bad thing. But you know, she

499
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: might write a portion of a chapter of a book, right,

500
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: and it reads very close to what we see on

501
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: the page has been published. But the way she would

502
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: break down her writing, oh this is not good. People

503
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 2: won't believe this. What am I doing? This doesn't matter.

504
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: I don't you know. I've lost it all Throughout her career,

505
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: well into the nineteen nineties, she's like, oh, this work

506
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: isn't good. So there's one moment that I write about

507
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: where she's literally coming from being honored as a distinguished

508
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: guest and she's on the plane and she was like,

509
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: I don't have anything to say. What's coming out doesn't

510
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: make any sense? Have I lost it? Am I still good?

511
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: You know? And that's not to pedestalize her, right, she

512
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: was a person was complicated, who have their ups and downs,

513
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: and who was entitled to that. But it's just hard

514
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: to see another black woman do herself like that. Okay,

515
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: well that was surprising.

516
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point. I think many of

517
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: us can relate to that too. As you were stating

518
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: all that, I'm like, she just seems so human, but

519
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: also there's this greatness, you know, where you appreciate the work.

520
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: But I think, yeah, many of us can definitely relate

521
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: to that. I want to ask you as well, Susannah,

522
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: what is a topic that you are really interested in

523
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: that you don't get to talk about much like people

524
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I want to talk about the book

525
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: because this is you know, this is what we're promoting

526
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: on the book tour. Are there any topics that you

527
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: really appreciate that you don't get to talk about often?

528
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: And what are they?

529
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: So?

530
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: I feel like I get to talk about pretty much

531
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: everything I want to talk about in general. I've really

532
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: been blessed on tour and in general to like, every

533
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: conversation is different. I've been remarking that to folks because

534
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: when full to read the book, they come away with

535
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: different things. So the questions that y'all are asking are

536
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: different than say, the questions I had last week when

537
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: I was at my alma mater, my Hoolyo College, and

538
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: I was, you know, in conversation with the president there,

539
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: which was amazing and super dope, and she was asking

540
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: very particular questions because she's a civil rights lawyer and

541
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: the president of a college, and so she just had

542
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: different insights. So I've been really challenged surprise, and I

543
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: am just eternally grateful to people engaging the books. So

544
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: people are just coming from all different angles. I'm like, yeah,

545
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: I love that, you know, so I've been getting to

546
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: talk about all kinds of things.

547
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: I love that. It's amazing.

548
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: Yes, And so when you think about the evolution of

549
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 3: your career, right, so from being the young girl reading

550
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: in the like going to the bookstore, reading books in

551
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 3: the lib you know, in the library, and then now

552
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: you're a professor and you're writing the books that other

553
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 3: people are reading. When you think about this evolution of

554
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: your career is there anything that has really surprised you

555
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: in terms of where your career has gone.

556
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I like I've saved you. I have

557
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: humble roots, right. Both of my parents are immigrants, Caribbean immigrants.

558
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: My mother has a grammar school education. You know, she

559
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: had to drop out of school to basically farm, right.

560
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: So in the third grade, my grandmother was like, you

561
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: have to work full time. Right. So that's my trajectory

562
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: from that, right to having a PhD. So I feel

563
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: very kindness, humbled by the shoulders, and I'm standing on

564
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: in particular kinds of ways. I'm not really supposed to

565
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: be here, right, Like the spaces that I occupied were

566
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: not really created for me, right. But I am coming

567
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: through the door with all sorts of folks behind me

568
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: that I've never even met, right, ancestors literal and figurative,

569
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: that are sort of like pushing me through and holding

570
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: me up. I did well in school, you know, I

571
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: wasn't a student who struggled in general. I mean, I

572
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: had mass was not easy. I went straight through. You know,

573
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: when people look at my resume, they're like, Okay, she

574
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: graduated high school, she went to college, she went to

575
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: graduate school, right, afterward, she got a job immediately. Now

576
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: she's in another job. She's written these books. Wow, you know,

577
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: but they weren't shooting with me in the gym, you know.

578
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: So and again, I first person in my immediate family

579
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: to graduate from college, from graduate school, you know, all

580
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: of those things. So and that's another reason why the

581
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: crew has been so important to me, because many of

582
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 2: my homies have also similar trajectories right where they might

583
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: be the first in their family to graduate. They might

584
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: also be first generation Americans, or they might have deep

585
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: roots in this country. You know, we all have like

586
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: our kind of humble roots in particular kinds of ways.

587
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean I love saying why I was

588
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: so supposed to be here. I tell that to my

589
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: students too. I often say, this classroom that you're in

590
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: with this black lady, professor, it was not supposed to happen,

591
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 2: And there are folks who would love for it me

592
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: to continue to happen, you know. So there's that My

593
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: trajectory is in some ways very straightforward, in other ways

594
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: really kind of a wild ride, because you know, based

595
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: on the stats of my life, I shouldn't need me

596
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: doing this.

597
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: Once again, so inspiring sho's getting And the next question

598
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: here is a two parter, and this part of me

599
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: is like hesitating on the second part because as a creative,

600
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is the question everybody asks and are like,

601
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: I just released this project that we'll dive into it.

602
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 2: Ask away you already know?

603
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: Okay, first part is well, one, you've done so much, right,

604
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: You've already overcome so much, You've accomplished so much, You've

605
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: already made history in many ways. Right when you think

606
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: about just what you've accomplished, what would you say you

607
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: want your legacy to represent? And then of course what's

608
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: next for you? Like what do you envision next? I

609
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: know it's creatives. There's always something swirling around in there.

610
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: H So yeah, we love to know.

611
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my legacy. You know, when I did an

612
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: event in Brooklyn at the beginning of October or September

613
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: thirty excuse me. And it was wonderful. You know, my

614
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: editors came and my homegirls from undergrad and just like

615
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: my partner was there and travel with me, like I

616
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: was saying with a homegirl, like it was just like

617
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: all of this chosen family. And towards the end of

618
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 2: the key and a. A was in conversation with ebe

619
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: Ze Boy, who's a writer I love in respect and

620
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 2: just it was just super dope in a large crown.

621
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, look at me. So at the

622
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: end of the Q and A, I see a familiar

623
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 2: face and it's one of my former students from Georgia Tech.

624
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: The Meal, a young black woman and she is in

625
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: her being her second year in law school. I think

626
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: she did in her second year of law school. And

627
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 2: so she took several fast with me, super bright, you know,

628
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: and now she is going to be a lawyer. And

629
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: she got up and said, you know, I just want

630
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 2: to thank you for you know, being there for me,

631
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: for being a mentor, for being I'm like, that's what

632
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: it's about, you know. That's what it's about for me,

633
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: is being able to you know, mentor folks, particularly other

634
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 2: black women, to encourage people in the field, whether it's

635
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: to get a pH d, which is complicated. I have

636
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 2: lots of thoughts about that, particularly the academic industrial complex.

637
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, don't do it unless you really want to

638
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: do it, you know, but just you know, it's real,

639
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: and so yeah, that's what I really think about in

640
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: terms of legacy is it's funny to me as a

641
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: professor folks, you know, especially with the climate now where

642
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: they're like you're indoctrinating students. I can barely get them

643
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,919
Speaker 2: to read a syllabus. So if someone years later comes

644
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 2: back and says, I need a positive impact in their life, right,

645
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 2: I'm not telling them what to think, but I'm telling

646
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: them to think critically. Right. And Camilla's out here. She

647
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 2: you know, started a chapter of the NAACP at Georgia Tech.

648
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: You know, she's adult, so she's doing all this work,

649
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: all this volunteer stuff. What I mean, I believe the

650
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: children are our future. Like she is such a wonderful

651
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: and I just got to play a small part in

652
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: her trajectory. I got to pay it forward. When I

653
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: was at my Holyok last week, I was introduced by

654
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 2: two of my professors who are still there, who were

655
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: young assistant professors back in the day, and now they

656
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: have been professors for twenty something years, almost thirty years

657
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: in some cases. And I could see them looking at

658
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: me like we remember back in nineteen ninety nine when

659
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: he was in the class doing XYFB, and now I

660
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: get to do that for other people. So that's really

661
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: just and I want them to continue to do it

662
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 2: in their profession. So I'm looking at Camille like, okay,

663
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 2: so when you become an esquire, you have to make

664
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: sure you mentor this next group. Right. It's like Tony

665
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: Morrison says, like, if you make it, it's not like,

666
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 2: oh I made it, and then that's it. Right. You

667
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: have to pull people into the room with you as well. Right.

668
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: Power is not to be held on singularly. It is

669
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: to be shared with the group.

670
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: Right, beautiful, thank you so much.

671
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my, yes, that so beautifully stated.

672
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 3: And so you mentioned being a professor at Georgia Tech

673
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 3: and in your bio you know as Terry ragelbio at

674
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 3: the beginning. You've written multiple books. So for those of

675
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: those listeners who want to connect with you, we know

676
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 3: they're going to go out and get the book. Yes,

677
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 3: how can they find you? How can they support you?

678
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: Yes? So they can find you on Instagram And my

679
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 2: handle is a Susie May and may ye I'm on Facebook.

680
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 2: You know if you're still on the Book of Faces,

681
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: Susannah Morris PhD. I really left twitever. I have an

682
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: account over there, but I don't I don't go over there, really,

683
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: you know. And I'm trying to figure out my life

684
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: on TikTok, so I won't share that just yet, but

685
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: really Instagram and Facebook and Susannah dot com which is

686
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: getting Susannah Morris dot com, which is getting a makeover.

687
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: And I'm remembering I did not respond to your question fully, Terry.

688
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: So I'm still thinking about, you know, where I'm going next.

689
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: But so as folks follow me, you know, and subsect

690
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: as well, it's called the remix. I'm sort of thinking

691
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: about autodidecks. I'm thinking about folks who are self taught

692
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: in a particular kind of way. And I'm telling you

693
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: it was time that when Autodidex she went to Pasadena

694
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: City College or to the junior college still around, and

695
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: you know, she went to the Clarion Writer's Workshop, but

696
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: she was largely self taught because regular school just did

697
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: not connect with her. She was someone who had to

698
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: create their own curriculum. And so, you know, when we

699
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: look at her report cards from her primary and secondary school,

700
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: they say things like, oh, she's a day dreamer, she's lazy.

701
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: She you know, wish none of those things were true.

702
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: She was a deep thinker, and you know her her divergence.

703
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 2: Folks were not first of all able to really diagnose

704
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: that in black women well anyway, even to this day.

705
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: And she was born in nineteen forty seven. So in

706
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: working on this book, I've really been sort of interested in, like, Okay,

707
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: how have black folk in particular used like a life

708
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 2: library spaces right to create their own personal curriculum? As

709
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 2: the girls are saying on TikTok, like, oh, I'm making

710
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: my own personal curriculum for the fall. Well that was

711
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 2: on Tavia right, she'd be like, well, I want to

712
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 2: figure out what you know these aliens would look like,

713
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: So I'm going to go research marine life, or I

714
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: want to set my novel in the Amazon. So I'm

715
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: going to go to the Amazon and go with a

716
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: research group and do that research. And she's not the

717
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: only one. Some people have become famous, right like in

718
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: August Wilson, who would skip school so that he goes

719
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 2: to library and really learn stuff because he was learning

720
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 2: stuff in high school. And then think about the people

721
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: that we know in our lives, and it might even

722
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: be us, It might be your grandmother who is like

723
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: I'm a master quilter and I'm going to learn all

724
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 2: that I can about quilting. Right, there's a certain level

725
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 2: of expertise that folks at black folks that I think

726
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 2: we prize, and I think it's it's no surprise or

727
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: should be no surprise. These third spaces life libraries have

728
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: been under attack because they have been so important to

729
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: marginalized folk, in particular Black folk, black women. I just

730
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: went in because I moved recently and I got a

731
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 2: library card, and when I walked in, I just saw

732
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: all kinds of folk at the computers. As I was

733
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: walking in, there was someone who looked like they were

734
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: probably unhoused, who was also coming in, and I'm like,

735
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 2: and no one's going to kick him out. And he

736
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: doesn't need a library card. He just needs to show

737
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: up and be in the space and he can use

738
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 2: the computer. Right, he can be in a warm, safe environment. Right.

739
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 2: There were people there with their children. You know, people

740
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 2: are learning all kinds of stuff. So I really want

741
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: to think about that. It's very nebulous now, but you know,

742
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: as y'all follow me on the socials, you know I

743
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: will be sharing what I'm working on.

744
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: Well, that's so insightful, And yeah, we're looking forward to

745
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: that to see it in real time, to see like

746
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: how you evolve this next step in the journeys who's in.

747
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: We appreciate you so much. Thank you for the work

748
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: that you do, for the legacy you've already you're leaving

749
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: now and then you know what you're going to do next.

750
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: So we'd love to have people support you. Were going

751
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: to share your links in the show notes, and we

752
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: just want to thank you so much for your time,

753
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: your gifts today.

754
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for having me. It's a row honor.

755
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of your next steps,

756
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: this is for you. Hey, lady is Tea here, and

757
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: I just want to invite you to my free goal

758
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Speaker 1: map like a pro coaching workshop, where I'll share the

759
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 1: five proven steps to get unstuck and achieve your goals.

760
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Speaker 1: Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by all your ideas, juggling scattered ideas,

761
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Speaker 1: or maybe you just need confidence to start, this workshop

762
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Speaker 1: will give you the clarity, tools and the motivation to

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Speaker 1: take back control. Reserve your spot for free by visiting

764
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: her space podcast dot com and clicking on the goal

765
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: map like a pro webinar link Lady, don't miss this

766
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,319
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Speaker 1: set you up for success. I hope to see you there.

768
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 3: Thanks for tuning into Cultivating her Space. Remember that while

769
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 3: this podcast is all about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's

770
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: not a substitute for therapy. If you or someone you

771
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: know need support, check out resources like Therapy for Black

772
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 3: Girls or Psychology Today. If you love today's episode, do

773
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 3: us a favor and share it with a friend who

774
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: needs some inspiration or leave us a quick five star review.

775
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 3: Your support means the world to us and helps keep

776
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 3: this space thriving.

777
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: And before we meet again, repeat after me. I release

778
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: the old with gratitude and prepare for the new with intention.

779
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: Keep thriving, Lady, and tune in next Friday for more

780
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: inspiration from Cultivating her Space. In the meantime, be sure

781
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: to connect with us on Instagram at her Space podcast

782
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: Best