WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Daytona Beach Serial Killer 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:02.400 Hey, this week's episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:06.120 to you by rage filled emails. No, Instead, it's brought 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:09.080 to you by your local animals shelter. So you want 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.160 to get a furry, feathered scaly friend one or the other, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.240 not all three? Uh, you should go to your look 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:16.440 like animal shelter before you go to that pet store 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.720 because there's so many cute, little fuzzy creators out there 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:21.680 that are really want to find a good home. If 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.560 you already have one but you just want to help out, 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.120 there's other ways you can help out rather than donating, 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.480 you can donate to your local animal rescue or dog shelter, 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.920 cat shelter, whatever. And also if you don't have a 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.720 lot of money, they always need volunteers, and you know 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.239 it'll be a great experience you meet wonderful animals and 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.959 people too. So yeah, we don't waste any time. Get 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.720 down to your local shelter today and say hi to Fluffy, 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:59.640 Fido and Godzilla for me. The ideas I don't know 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.480 stories of things, we simply don't know the answer too. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.559 Hey everybody, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:16.640 I am Steve, of course, joined by Devon. Thank you. 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:22.120 I was trying to introduce you guys, but thanks for blowing. 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.560 Next week we'll do it right. We will never do 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.040 this right now. It really just kind of change up 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.400 every week. But this week what is going to be true, 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:33.920 as with every other week, is that we have a 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:39.000 mystery to cover, maybe solved, maybe just get a little 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.440 light on. I don't know, but we're going to get 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.600 into it. I do want to tell everybody though, that 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.520 this week's story it involves a lot of death, and 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.080 it involves a lot of adult themes. So if you 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.600 have little ears around, or if death and adult themes 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.080 bother you, pause us when er skipping and save it 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:01.480 for later. Whatever works for you. Really late down, then listen, yeah, 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.160 by yourself while you're walking down the street. This week, 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.320 we're gonna be talking about the Daytona Beach serial killer 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.800 who is believed to have killed somewhere between three to 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:17.480 seven women between two thousand five and two thousand seven. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:24.280 It's a newer mystery. Yeah, he's probably listening right now. 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.679 I hope not. It's you. According the Internet, Joe, it 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.600 is you. I don't even know what you're talking about. 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.520 I don't even know what murder is the Daytona Beach 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.280 serial killer. Some people say has killed three to seven women. 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.919 Other places the low number is four. We'll get into 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.600 that later on because that kind of depends on who 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.720 gets attributed to it. But that's something we'll deal with later. 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.079 I do also want to let everybody know that we 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.639 were lucky enough to talk with reporter and author Christine 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.120 Pelisak recently, and we're gonna he's sharing some of the 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.000 audio from that conversation during the episode. The reason we 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.239 had Christine and is she recently published her book titled 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.680 The Grim Sleeper The Lost Women of South Central, which 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:16.240 tells the story of serial killer Lonnie David Franklin Jr. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:21.360 Recently convicted. Yes, ye, yeah, yeah he was. He was. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.679 He killed Okay, his numbers are not exactly firm either, 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:31.520 but it's between ten to over twenty five women between 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.960 five and two thousand and seven. You get that guy 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.600 some candy to ribe him and get him to fess up. Yeah, 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.480 they need to give him some kind of drug. I 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.760 I don't think candy is the right thing. They're going 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.760 to give him something eventually. But the Grim Sleeper case 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:50.040 shares a lot of similarities with the Daytona Beach serial 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.040 killer case, which is why we talked to Christine because 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.880 there's a lot of things that are very similar, and 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:01.560 so it seemed like a great opportunity to to get 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.200 her insight on these kind of questions. Frankly, never know, 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.960 I mean, Lonnie might have might have actually committed the 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:11.120 murders in Daytona Beach. Who knows. Maybe I highly doubted, 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.880 but it's possible. I guess not. And you know, also 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.320 I could fly out of this room with only my 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:23.039 imaginary wings. That is possible as well. No, but so 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:28.000 we're going to talk about the Daytona Beach Celia killer first. Correct. Primarily, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.839 all we're going to talk about is the Daytona Beach 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.120 serial killer. Most of the stuff with a Grim Sleep 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.440 will come up in the theory section, and we'll call 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.520 out when we're looking. We're talking about similarities because they're 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.799 they're pretty striking or pretty easy to spot. So here's 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.919 our story. A Christmas Eve of two thousand five, Lacquetta 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.840 Gunther left her house or her friend's house, I should say. 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.680 Her friend's name is Stacy Dittmer. Then she wanted to 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.760 go out and have a couple of drinks and celebrate 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.680 at a bar that she normally frequented. The two ladies 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.520 had her tradition of that night. They would stay up 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.440 late and they would cook all of the food that 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.719 they were going to serve uh the next day. It 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.520 was kind of a holiday tradition. I think they've been 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.760 doing it for at least four years in a row. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.520 They had done it so Stacy Dippner, she was a 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.880 little upset that her friend was leaving, but said, well, okay, 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.160 I mean, if you're gonna go, she said, listen, I 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:25.720 want to go and party. I'll be back in a 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.600 little bit. It's no big deal. A little bit was 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.400 turned out to be a long time. I guess yeah, 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.000 because her a few hours of going out turned into 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.680 a long time and she never came back. She did 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.640 wind up somewhere, though by no means did Miss Gunther 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.320 look how to live, you know, a life of luxury. 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.560 She was forty five. She was a day labor when 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:49.400 she could get work, and you know, when things were tight, 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.160 she would go to the local shelter to get meals. 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.400 She also liked her drinks and was known when she 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.960 had money to spend a lot of time at the bar, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.599 and when she was there sometimes, according to some of 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.040 the reading, anyway, she was not afraid to ask people 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.080 for money to have one more round. It's interesting she 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.600 asked people for money, not drinks. I think part of 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.680 that is the way the articles frame it. She very 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.800 very well have said, listen, bid me one more. It 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.600 probably was that, you know, I don't know why you 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.080 would be like, hey man, can I have a twenty? Yeah, 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.680 I can have a drink? Like why wouldn't you just say, like, hey, 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:29.720 can you throw us on your tab? But I also 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.159 don't know that if it wasn't she was standing outside 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:34.359 and let's say, having a cigarette, somebody walked by and 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.160 she asked for a couple of bucks so she get 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.080 one more drink. I mean, I don't know how this 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.720 went down. I think it happened in the bar because 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.479 otherwise they wouldn't have had this account Yeah. Maybe, yeah, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.440 it's hard to say. Yeah. I mean if they were 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.080 like locals or you know, other regulars, they would be 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.719 able to account for if it happened inside or outside. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:55.400 Probably they could all have been a standing outide. I mean, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.120 you know, people just like stand outside and smoking groups, 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.159 and sure one of the other things that I've read 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.839 about Laketta is by the way, I hope I'm pronouncing 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.520 her name. We just had an internal conversation about it. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.680 I'm not exactly sure, but we're going to run with that. 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.960 Didn't just say it and commit Yep, I've committed to it. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:14.640 I've said it a couple of times. It's not like 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.640 it's not like what yeah, and it's at least you're 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:23.240 not the captain who says Madeline McCain. But she, according 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.920 to the reporting, she also she liked drugs and she 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.760 was not averse to taking them. But I've only seen 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.440 that in a couple of places, and it never was 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.960 very specific. I mean, it's almost it's just as if 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:36.760 it feels like to me, maybe they just threw that 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.960 in because they could. So I can't say that that 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.320 truly is what was going on. There are people out 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.120 there who, you know, we'll just they're not druggy so much. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.320 They will do take the occasional line of coke if 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.920 somebody's or somebody off enjoy or something like that. Yeah, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.440 that's and that and that could be it. But like 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.640 I said, she's she's a day labor. When she can 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.560 get worked and have a whole lot of money, and 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.640 when times are tight, she was known to pick up 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:05.640 the occasional john to get a little bit of extra money. 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.040 She wasn't a full time sex worker. It was the 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.040 way I got it, or the impression I got, was 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:16.520 that it was to make ends meet. On December, a 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.640 body is found in an alley near a bar called 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.720 Willie's Place, And remember that name because it comes up 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.560 several times in this story. That's where she was known 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.760 to hang out. And the body, of course, turned out 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.320 to be hers. It was in the fetal position, some 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.280 of her clothes had been removed. She had been shot 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.520 in the back of the head. The gun had the 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.720 bullet had done enough damage to her face that they 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.679 had to identify her via her tattoos. They couldn't do 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:51.439 a visual identification. The ballistics say that it was a 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.880 forty caliber Smith and Wesson that she was shot with, 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.800 which is not a small gun and a close range like. 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:05.160 They also believe that the shooter used hollow points, so 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.679 that would explain the damage to her face. So you 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:09.520 can really tell that from just the bullet that you 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.240 pull out of their head. You know, well, I don't 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.480 know if it was I don't know where the bullet was, Joe, 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.000 I know that they were. I'm pretty sure this one. 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.280 They recovered the bullet, but it just it was it 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.160 was massive, the damage that it did to her. They 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:28.839 did check her body, they did find DNA from another individual, 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.200 ran it through the system, and they got no hits. 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.320 They had no idea who this other person was, right, 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.680 I believe it was saliva. Yes, I believe all of 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.559 them were saliva, but they're all the same. I might 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.839 be getting mixed up with a grim sleeper, So I'm 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.520 not actually going to commit to that because I've been 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.520 reading about so much of both lately. But the point 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:56.040 is they didn't have anything, and they had no idea 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.480 what happened to her on Christmas Eve of that year 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.760 and her Hays just it kind of died on the 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.000 vine right there, that's all they had. Less than a 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.000 month later, so this would be the fourteenth of January 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.920 two thousand and six, about five miles away from where 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.400 Looketta was found, a construction worker at a site near 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.880 lpg A Boulevard found a body in a ditch. Actually 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.800 have a LA Boulevard they do, right near a golf course. Yeah. Now, 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.720 remember we were in Daytona Beach, so they have the speedways, 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.160 and they have golf courses, and this is near a 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.920 golf course. So that's why it just seems like an 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.800 inelegant name, I get it, But to the golfers, it's 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:44.960 an awesome name. Off that. Yeah, So the construction worker, 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.480 the body that this individual found it would turn out 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.839 to be a woman whose name was Julie and Green. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.320 Julie was thirty four, and she was also a regular 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.800 at Willie's place. As a matter of fact, I think 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.920 they knew each other at least a little bit, at 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.320 least in passing. Yeah, because I know that one of 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.040 her friend watching it. We were talking to you were 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.720 talking about a minute ago, Stacy Diptmer. Yeah. I put 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.000 up a sense that kind of a poster saying like 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.599 a little memorial thing saying, oh my God, we love you, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.600 we miss you, and everybody signed and Julie Julie Green 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.120 signed that. Yeah, Yeah, she did sign it. So not 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.480 like she knew her at least a little Yeah. I 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.959 mean it's hard to say what their relationship was, but 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:33.440 what we know is that like Loquetta, Julie was also 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.760 shot in the back of the head. Her body was 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:40.319 also found partially nude. Her This is a weird thing 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.400 to note, but her nudity varies from source to source, 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.640 like some make it out like she just had her 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.760 top missing, and others make it out as if she 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.120 was basically naked butter socks kind of kind of that 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:55.839 very instance. It's weird why the reporting seems so so 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.440 to shift back and forth. But I noticed that whatever 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.760 it's worth, it's like telephone, you know. And the only 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.319 thing is, it's like again, the guys in the press 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.280 are supposed to get it straight. You know, we we 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.160 screw up to you, but at least we don't get paid. 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.760 At least we've got that excuse. It's not our job. Yeah, 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:17.240 Like Looquetta, DNA evidence was recovered from her body from 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.760 another individual, and the police did determine that it was 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.560 the same gun that was used to kill both women, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.679 and they would have had to have find found ballets then, Yeah, 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.160 that'd be the only way. Yeah, yeah, good point. Yes, 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.679 what we've talked about. Thank you. Yeah. Actually, I think 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.079 they also found shell casing the scene, didn't they, or 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.200 at least at least one of the scenes. At least 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:39.760 one of the scenes had I think you're right, there 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.080 was a shell casing. Um, I don't know, God, I 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.600 can't remember which one the other weird Okay, so here's 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.240 another weird bit of evidence. Is and this is only 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.080 in a few places. I tracked this from the Wikipedia 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.120 article to another news article and then I could never 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.920 find in any of the other articles that I was reading. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:03.920 But supposedly near Julie Green's body was a tire track 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.040 that belonged to a two thousand three Ford Tours or 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.680 a Mercury Sable. That can be a challenge though in 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.800 that she was where was she found? She was found 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.200 in kind of a public space, right, No, No, so 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.000 it's not it was it was kind of an access road. 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.960 It was semi I means grass and bushes and she 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.400 was in a ditch. Okay, so just kidding. I mean 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.319 it could have been somebody pulled I think somebody pulled 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.040 over on the shoulder and and then everything happened. But 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:36.400 we only found out that one place, so who knows access. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.960 That implies somebody's getting access to it, so you know, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.160 I will be that the was unrelated. Kind of curious 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.160 about how they identified the car, because I mean, I 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.840 guess you could say, well, they only sell these tires 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.680 with these cars. So she it's in two thousand six. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.680 If brand new vehicles tend to come with the same tire, 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.400 so so of course Ford and Mercury at that time, 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.880 we're the same manufacturer. Yeah, and that means that they 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.839 know that and the tourists and the Sable are basically 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.520 the same car with a different emblem on them. So right, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.360 so they can always say, well, by default, this tire 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.760 always comes on the se model or whatever it is. 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.120 So I think that's kind of how they figure it 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.120 it out. So it doesn't really doesn't watch enough forensic files. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.320 Now I don't know, but I know I know what 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.640 you're saying. But the thing about it is, of course, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.920 is there are such things used tires. I was going 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.040 to say, but that doesn't mean that somebody didn't have 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:40.040 that same kind of tire on an old t Bird, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.880 you know, and an eighties Stockbird or something. Yeah. A 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.080 lot of people will buy a car and decide, oh, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.400 I want more bitch and wheels and tires on it, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.160 you know, and then they get rid of the old tires. 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.200 But similarly, I think there are certain makes of tires 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.520 that only fit on certain makes of cars. So it's 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.480 possible that these were just unique in that. I mean, 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.000 I know, you know, I have a Subaru and you 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.760 have to have to get kind of specific tires for 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.280 it because they just they don't make that. You know, 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.000 I can't. I couldn't just like transfer over like you're 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.680 the tires off of your car onto my car, because 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.600 they wouldn't work. Probably not it's the depth of the 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:23.360 wheel sometimes that can be anyways, it's but it's it's 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.680 this is kind of a non issue or non point 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.440 because I don't even know if it's really yeah, because 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.640 I don't know where it actually came from. Julie did 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.960 lead a tough life or a rough life as well 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:41.080 as well. And I have seen that one her mud shot. Yeah, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.800 and she looks like she looks pretty roughed over. Oh yeah, 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.400 she's not quite like one of those really seriously deep 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.560 into a methodics, but she looks like she's starting down 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.000 that road. She's on like phase two of the phases. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.800 She's not not in the best best of standings at 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.720 their appearances at that point. And she I mean, it's 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.560 it's a known fact she struggled with alcohol and drugs, 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.920 and she was known to work Ridgewood av which is 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:13.480 this major north south road right there in Daytona Beach, 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.080 and Willie's Bar is just off of Ridgewood, So we're 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.840 just going to bring that back in. But this road is, 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.840 I mean, it's a pretty major thoroughfare, but it's bars 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:28.440 and motels, there's trailer parks on it. It's it's not 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:33.280 prime real estate. It's it's a thoroughfare. But apparently she 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:39.280 had been she had received multiple charges of prostitution, and 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.840 she was known to be in that area. So the 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:43.680 thing to keep in mind is I'm going to use 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:50.440 Willie's Bar as sorry Willie Willie's Place, Thank you Willie's 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.440 Place as a bit of a reference point here, because 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.840 Looketta was like several blocks away or and then we 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:02.520 get Julie. She's five my ails to the west, almost 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.480 directly west. So this is this is you're going to 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.800 start to notice there's a very small area that this 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.720 is going to happen. Was there a road that went 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.240 almost directly west from the bar too, that you could 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.040 just like get in a car on a road and 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.560 drove it pretty much that way pretty easily, because there's 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.640 I four um which you could you could have gone 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.719 south on Richardson and then caught the I four and 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:28.800 then jumped up very easily to where lpg A Boulevard was. 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.520 We're going to go to the next victim. About a 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:36.760 month later, this would be they of February two thousand 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.000 and six, a third body is found. It's found in 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.919 a wooded area near Mason Ave and North Williams Boulevard. 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.439 And where is that in relationship our other corpses, That 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:52.640 is from Julie. It's about a mile east, so almost 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.400 on the same east west trajectory and just a couple 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:01.040 of blocks north of that line. Pretty close, yeah, very close. 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.879 She was found, Like I said, it's a semi wooded area. 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.159 And it would turn out that the body was thirty 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:12.439 five year old. I wanna pattern. She was similar to 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:16.159 the other victims in many ways and different and a 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:20.679 few others. The similarities for Starters were that she was 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.280 also shot with a forty caliber gun, but she was 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.560 not shot in the back of the head. Instead, she 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.360 was shot in the face. Investigators believe that she understood 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.879 what was about to happen and tried to fight back, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.720 because remember the first two women are shot in the 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:39.840 back of the head, which means that the killer has 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.280 to be behind them, if if not having them kneeling 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.359 in front of him, for them to have fallen into 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.320 that semi fetal position. Whereas miss Patten she shot in 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.520 the face, she apparently tried to fight back and prevent 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.240 her own death, you know, which if you figured out 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.080 what else you gonna do but try and survive, it 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:01.760 could have been that, or it could have been the 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.240 other difference. But I want to is that she was 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.600 black and the first two were white, and so you know, 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.720 maybe the guy just you know, wanted to shoot the 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:11.720 black woman in the face because he liked black people 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.199 a little less, you know, and just wanted to be 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.159 you know what I'm saying. I know that's probably the 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.040 horrible thing. Probably is just randomness, or she was fighting 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.520 Like you said, I wanted, I really wanted to not 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.199 be that kind of racist bs. I wanted to be 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.320 that she was fighting back because well, she might have 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.080 been fighting back, and it could have been that he 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.560 just felt with the other too, I'm gonna be really 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.639 sneaky about it. They'll never know it hit him. And 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.280 then with the black girl, I'm just gonna say, hey, 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.159 you know what here's the end and give her a 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.119 little a moment to think about it. Yeah, nothing short 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.280 of I mean, honestly could be. He said, Okay, get 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.000 on your knees and turn around, and you know we're gonna, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.440 you know, give me a blow job or something, right, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.920 And they said, um, you know. The other two girls 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.040 were like, okay, we'll just you know, wait here. And 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:58.840 you know she maybe she was just more forward and 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.960 was like all right, yeah, let's see it. He was 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.560 liked dang it, all right, Well, but I agree, I'd 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.240 rather I'd rather be not that scenario. But I mean, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:14.720 either way, unfortunately she was killed. This uh, this is 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.479 where we're gonna get some into the similarities again between 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.439 her and the others, though, is that they did recover 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:24.080 DNA from her body. There is a lot of dispute. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:25.680 I don't know why I keep finding these cases that 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:27.800 have so much dispute in them, but there's a bunch 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.000 of dispute here on what she did for a living. 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.760 Some sources say that she worked in an assisted living 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.280 facility in the area and that's all she did for income. 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.320 Other places say that she was known to be a 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.960 sex worker. I've read a few statements even that they 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.000 are even worse towards her, and they allude to the 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:52.400 fact that maybe she had diminished in capacities in terms 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:57.080 of her intelligence. Um, and I want to say that 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:00.359 that is probably because of the photo that everybody sees 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:05.520 of her. It's again not a flattering, freaking photo. But 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.320 I have heard that her family was helping her out, 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.879 So to be quite honest, I don't know where she 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.399 falls and where the truth in that bit is. What 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:20.919 I do know is that she must have been in 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:25.160 that area for a good reason, because here's the thing. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:31.600 Her car was found parked behind a speech therapy center 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:36.399 which was on Ridgewood and Cultural Avenue. So this is 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:42.000 again within like five blocks of Willie's Place, which is 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:46.400 again not a good neighborhood. And I can't find anything 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.440 that would explain why she was in that area. I'm 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.240 not saying that she was doing anything bad, but there 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:56.479 doesn't seem to have been a whole lot of reason 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.960 to draw her there. I haven't seen anything that said, oh, well, 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:00.760 she was trying to get a job at the speech 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.399 therapy center, or she was helping out. Nothing like that 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.199 ever comes up, So I'm I'm at a bit of 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.159 a loss. Uh, you know, it depends. I mean, she 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:11.399 parked there after hours, that might have just been a 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.000 good place to park, you know, as simply as simple 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.160 as that. Maybe the street parking was not available, and yeah, 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.080 the speech therapy center could just be a complete total 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.640