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Speaker 1: Hey, this week's episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought

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Speaker 1: to you by rage filled emails. No, Instead, it's brought

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Speaker 1: to you by your local animals shelter. So you want

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Speaker 1: to get a furry, feathered scaly friend one or the other,

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Speaker 1: not all three? Uh, you should go to your look

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Speaker 1: like animal shelter before you go to that pet store

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Speaker 1: because there's so many cute, little fuzzy creators out there

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Speaker 1: that are really want to find a good home. If

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Speaker 1: you already have one but you just want to help out,

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Speaker 1: there's other ways you can help out rather than donating,

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Speaker 1: you can donate to your local animal rescue or dog shelter,

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Speaker 1: cat shelter, whatever. And also if you don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of money, they always need volunteers, and you know

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Speaker 1: it'll be a great experience you meet wonderful animals and

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Speaker 1: people too. So yeah, we don't waste any time. Get

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Speaker 1: down to your local shelter today and say hi to Fluffy,

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Speaker 1: Fido and Godzilla for me. The ideas I don't know

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Speaker 1: stories of things, we simply don't know the answer too.

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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: I am Steve, of course, joined by Devon. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to introduce you guys, but thanks for blowing.

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Speaker 1: Next week we'll do it right. We will never do

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Speaker 1: this right now. It really just kind of change up

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Speaker 1: every week. But this week what is going to be true,

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Speaker 1: as with every other week, is that we have a

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Speaker 1: mystery to cover, maybe solved, maybe just get a little

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Speaker 1: light on. I don't know, but we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into it. I do want to tell everybody though, that

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Speaker 1: this week's story it involves a lot of death, and

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Speaker 1: it involves a lot of adult themes. So if you

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Speaker 1: have little ears around, or if death and adult themes

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Speaker 1: bother you, pause us when er skipping and save it

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Speaker 1: for later. Whatever works for you. Really late down, then listen, yeah,

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Speaker 1: by yourself while you're walking down the street. This week,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about the Daytona Beach serial killer

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Speaker 1: who is believed to have killed somewhere between three to

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Speaker 1: seven women between two thousand five and two thousand seven.

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Speaker 1: It's a newer mystery. Yeah, he's probably listening right now.

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Speaker 1: I hope not. It's you. According the Internet, Joe, it

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Speaker 1: is you. I don't even know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what murder is the Daytona Beach

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Speaker 1: serial killer. Some people say has killed three to seven women.

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Speaker 1: Other places the low number is four. We'll get into

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Speaker 1: that later on because that kind of depends on who

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Speaker 1: gets attributed to it. But that's something we'll deal with later.

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Speaker 1: I do also want to let everybody know that we

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Speaker 1: were lucky enough to talk with reporter and author Christine

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Speaker 1: Pelisak recently, and we're gonna he's sharing some of the

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Speaker 1: audio from that conversation during the episode. The reason we

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Speaker 1: had Christine and is she recently published her book titled

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Speaker 1: The Grim Sleeper The Lost Women of South Central, which

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Speaker 1: tells the story of serial killer Lonnie David Franklin Jr.

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Speaker 1: Recently convicted. Yes, ye, yeah, yeah he was. He was.

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Speaker 1: He killed Okay, his numbers are not exactly firm either,

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Speaker 1: but it's between ten to over twenty five women between

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Speaker 1: five and two thousand and seven. You get that guy

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Speaker 1: some candy to ribe him and get him to fess up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they need to give him some kind of drug. I

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Speaker 1: I don't think candy is the right thing. They're going

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Speaker 1: to give him something eventually. But the Grim Sleeper case

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Speaker 1: shares a lot of similarities with the Daytona Beach serial

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Speaker 1: killer case, which is why we talked to Christine because

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that are very similar, and

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Speaker 1: so it seemed like a great opportunity to to get

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Speaker 1: her insight on these kind of questions. Frankly, never know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Lonnie might have might have actually committed the

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Speaker 1: murders in Daytona Beach. Who knows. Maybe I highly doubted,

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Speaker 1: but it's possible. I guess not. And you know, also

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Speaker 1: I could fly out of this room with only my

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Speaker 1: imaginary wings. That is possible as well. No, but so

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the Daytona Beach Celia killer first. Correct. Primarily,

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Speaker 1: all we're going to talk about is the Daytona Beach

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Speaker 1: serial killer. Most of the stuff with a Grim Sleep

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Speaker 1: will come up in the theory section, and we'll call

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Speaker 1: out when we're looking. We're talking about similarities because they're

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Speaker 1: they're pretty striking or pretty easy to spot. So here's

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Speaker 1: our story. A Christmas Eve of two thousand five, Lacquetta

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Speaker 1: Gunther left her house or her friend's house, I should say.

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Speaker 1: Her friend's name is Stacy Dittmer. Then she wanted to

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Speaker 1: go out and have a couple of drinks and celebrate

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Speaker 1: at a bar that she normally frequented. The two ladies

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Speaker 1: had her tradition of that night. They would stay up

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Speaker 1: late and they would cook all of the food that

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Speaker 1: they were going to serve uh the next day. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of a holiday tradition. I think they've been

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Speaker 1: doing it for at least four years in a row.

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Speaker 1: They had done it so Stacy Dippner, she was a

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Speaker 1: little upset that her friend was leaving, but said, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're gonna go, she said, listen, I

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Speaker 1: want to go and party. I'll be back in a

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Speaker 1: little bit. It's no big deal. A little bit was

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Speaker 1: turned out to be a long time. I guess yeah,

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Speaker 1: because her a few hours of going out turned into

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Speaker 1: a long time and she never came back. She did

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Speaker 1: wind up somewhere, though by no means did Miss Gunther

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Speaker 1: look how to live, you know, a life of luxury.

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Speaker 1: She was forty five. She was a day labor when

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Speaker 1: she could get work, and you know, when things were tight,

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Speaker 1: she would go to the local shelter to get meals.

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Speaker 1: She also liked her drinks and was known when she

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Speaker 1: had money to spend a lot of time at the bar,

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Speaker 1: and when she was there sometimes, according to some of

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Speaker 1: the reading, anyway, she was not afraid to ask people

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Speaker 1: for money to have one more round. It's interesting she

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Speaker 1: asked people for money, not drinks. I think part of

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Speaker 1: that is the way the articles frame it. She very

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Speaker 1: very well have said, listen, bid me one more. It

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Speaker 1: probably was that, you know, I don't know why you

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Speaker 1: would be like, hey man, can I have a twenty? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can have a drink? Like why wouldn't you just say, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can you throw us on your tab? But I also

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Speaker 1: don't know that if it wasn't she was standing outside

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Speaker 1: and let's say, having a cigarette, somebody walked by and

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Speaker 1: she asked for a couple of bucks so she get

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Speaker 1: one more drink. I mean, I don't know how this

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Speaker 1: went down. I think it happened in the bar because

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Speaker 1: otherwise they wouldn't have had this account Yeah. Maybe, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to say. Yeah. I mean if they were

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Speaker 1: like locals or you know, other regulars, they would be

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Speaker 1: able to account for if it happened inside or outside.

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Speaker 1: Probably they could all have been a standing outide. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, people just like stand outside and smoking groups,

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Speaker 1: and sure one of the other things that I've read

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Speaker 1: about Laketta is by the way, I hope I'm pronouncing

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Speaker 1: her name. We just had an internal conversation about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure, but we're going to run with that.

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Speaker 1: Didn't just say it and commit Yep, I've committed to it.

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Speaker 1: I've said it a couple of times. It's not like

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Speaker 1: it's not like what yeah, and it's at least you're

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Speaker 1: not the captain who says Madeline McCain. But she, according

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Speaker 1: to the reporting, she also she liked drugs and she

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Speaker 1: was not averse to taking them. But I've only seen

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Speaker 1: that in a couple of places, and it never was

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Speaker 1: very specific. I mean, it's almost it's just as if

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Speaker 1: it feels like to me, maybe they just threw that

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Speaker 1: in because they could. So I can't say that that

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Speaker 1: truly is what was going on. There are people out

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Speaker 1: there who, you know, we'll just they're not druggy so much.

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Speaker 1: They will do take the occasional line of coke if

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Speaker 1: somebody's or somebody off enjoy or something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's and that and that could be it. But like

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Speaker 1: I said, she's she's a day labor. When she can

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Speaker 1: get worked and have a whole lot of money, and

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Speaker 1: when times are tight, she was known to pick up

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Speaker 1: the occasional john to get a little bit of extra money.

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Speaker 1: She wasn't a full time sex worker. It was the

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Speaker 1: way I got it, or the impression I got, was

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Speaker 1: that it was to make ends meet. On December, a

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Speaker 1: body is found in an alley near a bar called

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Speaker 1: Willie's Place, And remember that name because it comes up

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Speaker 1: several times in this story. That's where she was known

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Speaker 1: to hang out. And the body, of course, turned out

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Speaker 1: to be hers. It was in the fetal position, some

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Speaker 1: of her clothes had been removed. She had been shot

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Speaker 1: in the back of the head. The gun had the

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Speaker 1: bullet had done enough damage to her face that they

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Speaker 1: had to identify her via her tattoos. They couldn't do

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Speaker 1: a visual identification. The ballistics say that it was a

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Speaker 1: forty caliber Smith and Wesson that she was shot with,

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Speaker 1: which is not a small gun and a close range like.

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Speaker 1: They also believe that the shooter used hollow points, so

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Speaker 1: that would explain the damage to her face. So you

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Speaker 1: can really tell that from just the bullet that you

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Speaker 1: pull out of their head. You know, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it was I don't know where the bullet was, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I know that they were. I'm pretty sure this one.

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Speaker 1: They recovered the bullet, but it just it was it

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Speaker 1: was massive, the damage that it did to her. They

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Speaker 1: did check her body, they did find DNA from another individual,

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Speaker 1: ran it through the system, and they got no hits.

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Speaker 1: They had no idea who this other person was, right,

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Speaker 1: I believe it was saliva. Yes, I believe all of

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Speaker 1: them were saliva, but they're all the same. I might

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Speaker 1: be getting mixed up with a grim sleeper, So I'm

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Speaker 1: not actually going to commit to that because I've been

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Speaker 1: reading about so much of both lately. But the point

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Speaker 1: is they didn't have anything, and they had no idea

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Speaker 1: what happened to her on Christmas Eve of that year

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Speaker 1: and her Hays just it kind of died on the

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Speaker 1: vine right there, that's all they had. Less than a

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Speaker 1: month later, so this would be the fourteenth of January

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six, about five miles away from where

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Speaker 1: Looketta was found, a construction worker at a site near

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Speaker 1: lpg A Boulevard found a body in a ditch. Actually

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Speaker 1: have a LA Boulevard they do, right near a golf course. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: remember we were in Daytona Beach, so they have the speedways,

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Speaker 1: and they have golf courses, and this is near a

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Speaker 1: golf course. So that's why it just seems like an

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Speaker 1: inelegant name, I get it, But to the golfers, it's

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Speaker 1: an awesome name. Off that. Yeah, So the construction worker,

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Speaker 1: the body that this individual found it would turn out

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Speaker 1: to be a woman whose name was Julie and Green.

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Speaker 1: Julie was thirty four, and she was also a regular

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Speaker 1: at Willie's place. As a matter of fact, I think

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Speaker 1: they knew each other at least a little bit, at

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Speaker 1: least in passing. Yeah, because I know that one of

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Speaker 1: her friend watching it. We were talking to you were

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Speaker 1: talking about a minute ago, Stacy Diptmer. Yeah. I put

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Speaker 1: up a sense that kind of a poster saying like

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Speaker 1: a little memorial thing saying, oh my God, we love you,

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Speaker 1: we miss you, and everybody signed and Julie Julie Green

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Speaker 1: signed that. Yeah, Yeah, she did sign it. So not

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Speaker 1: like she knew her at least a little Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's hard to say what their relationship was, but

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Speaker 1: what we know is that like Loquetta, Julie was also

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Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head. Her body was

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Speaker 1: also found partially nude. Her This is a weird thing

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Speaker 1: to note, but her nudity varies from source to source,

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Speaker 1: like some make it out like she just had her

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Speaker 1: top missing, and others make it out as if she

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Speaker 1: was basically naked butter socks kind of kind of that

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Speaker 1: very instance. It's weird why the reporting seems so so

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Speaker 1: to shift back and forth. But I noticed that whatever

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Speaker 1: it's worth, it's like telephone, you know. And the only

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Speaker 1: thing is, it's like again, the guys in the press

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Speaker 1: are supposed to get it straight. You know, we we

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Speaker 1: screw up to you, but at least we don't get paid.

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Speaker 1: At least we've got that excuse. It's not our job. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like Looquetta, DNA evidence was recovered from her body from

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Speaker 1: another individual, and the police did determine that it was

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Speaker 1: the same gun that was used to kill both women,

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Speaker 1: and they would have had to have find found ballets then, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that'd be the only way. Yeah, yeah, good point. Yes,

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Speaker 1: what we've talked about. Thank you. Yeah. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: they also found shell casing the scene, didn't they, or

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Speaker 1: at least at least one of the scenes. At least

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Speaker 1: one of the scenes had I think you're right, there

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Speaker 1: was a shell casing. Um, I don't know, God, I

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Speaker 1: can't remember which one the other weird Okay, so here's

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Speaker 1: another weird bit of evidence. Is and this is only

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Speaker 1: in a few places. I tracked this from the Wikipedia

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Speaker 1: article to another news article and then I could never

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Speaker 1: find in any of the other articles that I was reading.

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Speaker 1: But supposedly near Julie Green's body was a tire track

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Speaker 1: that belonged to a two thousand three Ford Tours or

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Speaker 1: a Mercury Sable. That can be a challenge though in

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Speaker 1: that she was where was she found? She was found

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Speaker 1: in kind of a public space, right, No, No, so

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Speaker 1: it's not it was it was kind of an access road.

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Speaker 1: It was semi I means grass and bushes and she

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Speaker 1: was in a ditch. Okay, so just kidding. I mean

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Speaker 1: it could have been somebody pulled I think somebody pulled

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Speaker 1: over on the shoulder and and then everything happened. But

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Speaker 1: we only found out that one place, so who knows access.

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Speaker 1: That implies somebody's getting access to it, so you know,

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Speaker 1: I will be that the was unrelated. Kind of curious

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Speaker 1: about how they identified the car, because I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess you could say, well, they only sell these tires

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Speaker 1: with these cars. So she it's in two thousand six.

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Speaker 1: If brand new vehicles tend to come with the same tire,

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Speaker 1: so so of course Ford and Mercury at that time,

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Speaker 1: we're the same manufacturer. Yeah, and that means that they

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Speaker 1: know that and the tourists and the Sable are basically

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Speaker 1: the same car with a different emblem on them. So right,

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Speaker 1: so they can always say, well, by default, this tire

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Speaker 1: always comes on the se model or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of how they figure it

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Speaker 1: it out. So it doesn't really doesn't watch enough forensic files.

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Speaker 1: Now I don't know, but I know I know what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. But the thing about it is, of course,

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Speaker 1: is there are such things used tires. I was going

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Speaker 1: to say, but that doesn't mean that somebody didn't have

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Speaker 1: that same kind of tire on an old t Bird,

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Speaker 1: you know, and an eighties Stockbird or something. Yeah. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people will buy a car and decide, oh,

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Speaker 1: I want more bitch and wheels and tires on it,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then they get rid of the old tires.

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Speaker 1: But similarly, I think there are certain makes of tires

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Speaker 1: that only fit on certain makes of cars. So it's

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Speaker 1: possible that these were just unique in that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know, you know, I have a Subaru and you

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Speaker 1: have to have to get kind of specific tires for

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Speaker 1: it because they just they don't make that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I couldn't just like transfer over like you're

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Speaker 1: the tires off of your car onto my car, because

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't work. Probably not it's the depth of the

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Speaker 1: wheel sometimes that can be anyways, it's but it's it's

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Speaker 1: this is kind of a non issue or non point

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Speaker 1: because I don't even know if it's really yeah, because

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Speaker 1: I don't know where it actually came from. Julie did

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Speaker 1: lead a tough life or a rough life as well

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Speaker 1: as well. And I have seen that one her mud shot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she looks like she looks pretty roughed over. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's not quite like one of those really seriously deep

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Speaker 1: into a methodics, but she looks like she's starting down

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Speaker 1: that road. She's on like phase two of the phases.

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Speaker 1: She's not not in the best best of standings at

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Speaker 1: their appearances at that point. And she I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a known fact she struggled with alcohol and drugs,

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Speaker 1: and she was known to work Ridgewood av which is

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Speaker 1: this major north south road right there in Daytona Beach,

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Speaker 1: and Willie's Bar is just off of Ridgewood, So we're

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Speaker 1: just going to bring that back in. But this road is,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a pretty major thoroughfare, but it's bars

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Speaker 1: and motels, there's trailer parks on it. It's it's not

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Speaker 1: prime real estate. It's it's a thoroughfare. But apparently she

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Speaker 1: had been she had received multiple charges of prostitution, and

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Speaker 1: she was known to be in that area. So the

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Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind is I'm going to use

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Speaker 1: Willie's Bar as sorry Willie Willie's Place, Thank you Willie's

301
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Speaker 1: Place as a bit of a reference point here, because

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Speaker 1: Looketta was like several blocks away or and then we

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Speaker 1: get Julie. She's five my ails to the west, almost

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Speaker 1: directly west. So this is this is you're going to

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Speaker 1: start to notice there's a very small area that this

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Speaker 1: is going to happen. Was there a road that went

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Speaker 1: almost directly west from the bar too, that you could

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Speaker 1: just like get in a car on a road and

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Speaker 1: drove it pretty much that way pretty easily, because there's

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Speaker 1: I four um which you could you could have gone

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Speaker 1: south on Richardson and then caught the I four and

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Speaker 1: then jumped up very easily to where lpg A Boulevard was.

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Speaker 1: We're going to go to the next victim. About a

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Speaker 1: month later, this would be they of February two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six, a third body is found. It's found in

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Speaker 1: a wooded area near Mason Ave and North Williams Boulevard.

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Speaker 1: And where is that in relationship our other corpses, That

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Speaker 1: is from Julie. It's about a mile east, so almost

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Speaker 1: on the same east west trajectory and just a couple

320
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Speaker 1: of blocks north of that line. Pretty close, yeah, very close.

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Speaker 1: She was found, Like I said, it's a semi wooded area.

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Speaker 1: And it would turn out that the body was thirty

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Speaker 1: five year old. I wanna pattern. She was similar to

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Speaker 1: the other victims in many ways and different and a

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Speaker 1: few others. The similarities for Starters were that she was

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Speaker 1: also shot with a forty caliber gun, but she was

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Speaker 1: not shot in the back of the head. Instead, she

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Speaker 1: was shot in the face. Investigators believe that she understood

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Speaker 1: what was about to happen and tried to fight back,

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Speaker 1: because remember the first two women are shot in the

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Speaker 1: back of the head, which means that the killer has

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Speaker 1: to be behind them, if if not having them kneeling

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Speaker 1: in front of him, for them to have fallen into

334
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Speaker 1: that semi fetal position. Whereas miss Patten she shot in

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Speaker 1: the face, she apparently tried to fight back and prevent

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Speaker 1: her own death, you know, which if you figured out

337
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Speaker 1: what else you gonna do but try and survive, it

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00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 1: could have been that, or it could have been the

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00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 1: other difference. But I want to is that she was

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Speaker 1: black and the first two were white, and so you know,

341
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: maybe the guy just you know, wanted to shoot the

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Speaker 1: black woman in the face because he liked black people

343
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Speaker 1: a little less, you know, and just wanted to be

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I know that's probably the

345
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 1: horrible thing. Probably is just randomness, or she was fighting

346
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Speaker 1: Like you said, I wanted, I really wanted to not

347
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,199
Speaker 1: be that kind of racist bs. I wanted to be

348
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Speaker 1: that she was fighting back because well, she might have

349
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Speaker 1: been fighting back, and it could have been that he

350
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Speaker 1: just felt with the other too, I'm gonna be really

351
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,639
Speaker 1: sneaky about it. They'll never know it hit him. And

352
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 1: then with the black girl, I'm just gonna say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what here's the end and give her a

354
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Speaker 1: little a moment to think about it. Yeah, nothing short

355
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Speaker 1: of I mean, honestly could be. He said, Okay, get

356
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Speaker 1: on your knees and turn around, and you know we're gonna,

357
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, give me a blow job or something, right,

358
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Speaker 1: And they said, um, you know. The other two girls

359
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: were like, okay, we'll just you know, wait here. And

360
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 1: you know she maybe she was just more forward and

361
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 1: was like all right, yeah, let's see it. He was

362
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: liked dang it, all right, Well, but I agree, I'd

363
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Speaker 1: rather I'd rather be not that scenario. But I mean,

364
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 1: either way, unfortunately she was killed. This uh, this is

365
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,479
Speaker 1: where we're gonna get some into the similarities again between

366
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,439
Speaker 1: her and the others, though, is that they did recover

367
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Speaker 1: DNA from her body. There is a lot of dispute.

368
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Speaker 1: I don't know why I keep finding these cases that

369
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: have so much dispute in them, but there's a bunch

370
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: of dispute here on what she did for a living.

371
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Speaker 1: Some sources say that she worked in an assisted living

372
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Speaker 1: facility in the area and that's all she did for income.

373
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Speaker 1: Other places say that she was known to be a

374
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Speaker 1: sex worker. I've read a few statements even that they

375
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: are even worse towards her, and they allude to the

376
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 1: fact that maybe she had diminished in capacities in terms

377
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 1: of her intelligence. Um, and I want to say that

378
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: that is probably because of the photo that everybody sees

379
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: of her. It's again not a flattering, freaking photo. But

380
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: I have heard that her family was helping her out,

381
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: So to be quite honest, I don't know where she

382
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 1: falls and where the truth in that bit is. What

383
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 1: I do know is that she must have been in

384
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Speaker 1: that area for a good reason, because here's the thing.

385
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Speaker 1: Her car was found parked behind a speech therapy center

386
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: which was on Ridgewood and Cultural Avenue. So this is

387
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: again within like five blocks of Willie's Place, which is

388
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 1: again not a good neighborhood. And I can't find anything

389
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: that would explain why she was in that area. I'm

390
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: not saying that she was doing anything bad, but there

391
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,479
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have been a whole lot of reason

392
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: to draw her there. I haven't seen anything that said, oh, well,

393
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: she was trying to get a job at the speech

394
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 1: therapy center, or she was helping out. Nothing like that

395
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 1: ever comes up, So I'm I'm at a bit of

396
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: a loss. Uh, you know, it depends. I mean, she

397
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: parked there after hours, that might have just been a

398
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: good place to park, you know, as simply as simple

399
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: as that. Maybe the street parking was not available, and yeah,

400
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: the speech therapy center could just be a complete total

401
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: red herring. Yeah, I don't know. But again I don't

402
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: know why she was on Ridgewood. There are certain parts,

403
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, if she was going to a bar. There

404
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: are certain parts of Portland where I'll park, you know,

405
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: five or six blocks away from where I'm going, because

406
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: I know if I leave anything in my car right

407
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: in front of where I'm going, it's gonna the window

408
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: is gonna get broken, you know, even if it's just

409
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: a sweater versus like those five blocks away, I know

410
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: it's not you know, so sometimes it's just things as

411
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: simple as that. But I you know, I have my

412
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: own opinion on why people say she's a sex worker,

413
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: and I think it's dumb. But you know, that's just me.

414
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 1: I'm not going to disagree with that. I just think

415
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: it's it adds to the narrative of this story. If

416
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,719
Speaker 1: like all of them were, you know, of like selling

417
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: their bodies for money, and he had like a total

418
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 1: type and blah blah blah blah blah. It's way more

419
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: convenient than to say, like, hey, he was just a

420
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: monster who was kind of abducting whoever he possibly could. Yeah,

421
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: so that's my two cents. They're I'm not going to

422
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: disagree with you. Good after one is killed, the shooting stopped,

423
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: evidence was collected from all of the scenes. Was there sorry,

424
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: did we say, was there DNA? Yes, yes I did,

425
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: but yes there was DNA recovery. It's okay, No, No,

426
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 1: you were, you were you kind of worked up there.

427
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: It's okay. I'll let that go. I don't dare say anything. No,

428
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna say the shooting stopped. I was gonna say

429
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: that the shooting stopped with that particular gun. Maybe we don't.

430
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: We don't know that for sure, because the shooting stopped,

431
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: and then nobody seems to be shot in the back

432
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: of the head with forty caliber Smith and Wesson for

433
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: about a year. Then, on the second of January two

434
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: and eight, the body of thirty year old Stacy Gauge

435
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: would be found. A local police officer pulled off the

436
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: road near Hancock Boulevard and I four, which is one

437
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: of the major freeways. Uh. He wanted to deal with

438
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: some paperwork. He said that as soon as he parked

439
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: and rolled down the window, he spelled something bad and

440
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: that would end up being Stacy Gauge's body. She had

441
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: been last seen by her family on December twelve, when

442
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: she said she was going to go to the store

443
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: to get some ice. Police don't know, No, I don't,

444
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Now, remember this, this discovery is

445
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: on the second of January, so she's been there for

446
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 1: about three weeks. Presumably about three weeks. They think that

447
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: she was there basically the whole time. It's because of

448
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: the decomposition of the body that they believe that. But

449
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: that decomposition also worked against him because a they couldn't

450
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: pull any d n A off of the body. They

451
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: also couldn't tell she had been shot in the back

452
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: of the head as well like the other victim, and

453
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: was in a semi fetal state. But they couldn't tell

454
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: what caliber of gun had been used to kill her

455
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: because they so they were not able to recover the bullet.

456
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: Then it does not appear that there was a bullet. No,

457
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: because they couldn't tell. I'm guessing they couldn't tell what

458
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: kind of bullet because she decomposed and quite possibly wasn't

459
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: killed in that spot. Or yeah, I mean either that

460
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: or the bullet traveled. You know. Let's just say she's

461
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: standing in front and guy shoots and bullet travels horizontally

462
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: and they don't know which direction it went, or it

463
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: rained a lot and washed it away. I mean, well,

464
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have washed away, but I could see where

465
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: if it you know, if it traveled horizontally before it

466
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: it's trajectory drug it down. Yes, that's the problem with

467
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: those little critters is they're not made a non ferrous metal,

468
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: you know, the lead, so you can't just pull out

469
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: a metal detector and find them. Yeah, this is why

470
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: I suck as an investigator. Um, okay, no, But so

471
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: they believe that, Like I said, they believed that she

472
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: had been laying there the whole time. And I need

473
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: to point out for anybody who's gonna do what Joe

474
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: does it. Actually, I've been using Google Earth a lot

475
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: lately because I love the satellite imagery to look at

476
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: what things looked like at the time. If you're used

477
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: if you know Daytona Beach, you're saying well, these places

478
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: aren't very don't seem super secluded now, and they aren't now,

479
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 1: But in two thousand five and two thousand and six

480
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: there there was more vegetation, it was less built up

481
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: in those areas, so it was a little more secluded,

482
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: easier to hide what you were doing if you're a

483
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: bad guy. So Stacy Gauge talking about yeah, about her

484
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: background here a little bit. She had a cocaine habit.

485
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: Her family said that outright, you know, took her to

486
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: not the best places in the world and in her life. Um,

487
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: she had been trying to clean up, but her family said,

488
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: I think she had gone to a rehab center for

489
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: a while and gotten out. But her family was pretty

490
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: sure that at the time of her disappearance she was

491
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: using again. She was, not, however, believed to have been

492
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 1: a sex worker. Police would find the van that she

493
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: was driving, which was her mom's van, parked in an

494
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: apartment complex, almost a week after her body was found.

495
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 1: And because of the residence of that particular apartment complex,

496
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they were young, they were rowdy, they liked

497
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: a party, they like to do drugs. The cops speculate

498
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: that she might have gone there to get a hook up. Now,

499
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: if she was going to go there and use her

500
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: body for currency, nobody knows, but that's what they think

501
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: is the reason that the van was parked there. It's

502
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: kind of weird that sat there for that long and

503
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: nobody like because I know that generally speaking, most department buildings,

504
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: the apartment the parking is not terribly great, and usually

505
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: if somebody's just like left there storing their van there,

506
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: nobody doesn't belong to anybody there. People usually have a

507
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: toad that's kind of surprised, and everybody signore. It depends

508
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: on the depends on the apartment complex kind of a yeah,

509
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: if it's kind of more of a young partying demographic,

510
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes you just kind of assumed like, oh,

511
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: we got a new neighbor. Well maybe I don't know,

512
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: especially if it's like a slightly bigger complex. I've done

513
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: that before the d g F. It's like, whatever, not

514
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: my problem, I gotta go about my day. Um So,

515
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: it's really hard to say exactly why she was there,

516
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: but it's believed that she was there. Now I will

517
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 1: point out when her body was found. If we remember

518
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: I gave you that I drew that pattern out about

519
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: a mile away from Julie Green's where Alanna Patton was found,

520
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: and about two or three miles south of where a

521
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: Wanna Patton was found. That's where Stacy Gauge's body is found.

522
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: And picturing kind of an arrow shape, you know, the

523
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: if you were to pictures, So if you know how

524
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: you draw the number four, and that horizontal bar extends

525
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: a little bit if you were laying on its side

526
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: and then inverted, that's actually the shape that it makes

527
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: when you draw from one to the next. That was

528
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: probably really confused. Yeah, so that the killer is obviously

529
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: sending us a message, but not an arrow. It's not

530
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: an arrow, okay. So yeah, so basically a ford and

531
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: that it's an inverted four is what I'm saying. Well, yeah,

532
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: actually it's, oh I guess it's it's an elongated the

533
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: tails of the four are elongated. That's what I'm trying

534
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: to say. Well, it's kind of like, let Devin draw it,

535
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: so it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Yeah,

536
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: so Steve's drawing it now. So that's not an inverted

537
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: for that's just a force. It is a four. So

538
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: interesting for four murders and and they're in the pattern

539
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: of four. I wonder if our killer plotted this numerology, yeah,

540
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: probably not craiology, yeah, symbology. Maybe Stacy Gage would be

541
00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: the last person killed in this string in this about

542
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: year time frame that people attribute to what has now

543
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: been dubbed the Daytona Beach serial killer. You will see,

544
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: and this is why I said earlier, there's some conjecture

545
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: on this. You will see more people said to have

546
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: been killed by this person. I have some issues with that,

547
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure because there's there's three of them

548
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: that all talk about that. I don't really think you're connected.

549
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: There's Reagan Kendall. Her body was found dismembered in two

550
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: thousand and ten. I think I'm pretty sure it was

551
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: in July she was found dismembered. Then Kelly Lanthern her

552
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: body was also found that same month. Police haven't released that.

553
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: So that's why people say, oh, she must have been

554
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: killed with the forty caliber gun and they don't want

555
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: anybody to know. But I don't know that that's actually

556
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: the case. You'll also see a woman by the name

557
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: of Faith Jenkins listed as possibly being connected to the killing.

558
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: Her body was found in naked and in the fetal position,

559
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: but she also was not shot. The corner report would

560
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: say that she had she had experienced internal trauma, which

561
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: to me means that she got the crap be out

562
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: of her, which is very different than using a gun

563
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: on somebody. So the connections, I don't see the connection

564
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: to these these three like I do in the first four,

565
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: and I'm not even sure about Stacy Gage. I mean,

566
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: the first three very clearly linked by a weapon. After

567
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: that Stacy was shot in the back of the head.

568
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: But at the same time, shooting people in the back

569
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: of the head is not unknown. Well, it could have

570
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: been a could have been a copycat using any caliber

571
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: of gun. It could have been a non copy in

572
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: the back of well that's yeah, that's what I mean.

573
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: Head with another gun and it's a similar caliber. They'd

574
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: have no idea, you know what it was, because they

575
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: didn't recover a bullet. So it's hard to say. I'm

576
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm willing to say that there are three confirmed deaths

577
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: by this individual in that time frame. After that, I'm

578
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: not okay, So we should probably get into theories. Theories.

579
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: I like theories, but before that, let's take a quick break. Hey,

580
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: folks need to eat but don't know how well. Me neither.

581
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,280
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582
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,840
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583
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,560
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584
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585
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586
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587
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588
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589
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590
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,720
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591
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592
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,240
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593
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594
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595
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596
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,560
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597
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598
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599
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: and as everybody who knows me would agree. I'm kind

600
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: of challenged in that area. And even I succeeded and

601
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: made a good meal and I ate it even believe

602
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,560
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603
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604
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605
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606
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: dirty and we're back. So I should actually probably clarify here. Um,

607
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: this is one of those episodes where it's not so

608
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: much theories as suspects because people think that they know

609
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: who the Daytona Beach cereal killer is. Everybody knows who

610
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: everybody is. It's always somebody knows somebody. So what we're

611
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: gonna actually be talking about is the suspects section, and

612
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: there's a feeling there's some good ones. I kind of like, um,

613
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: who we got here? You like that one? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

614
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: exactly than the other ones. Yeah. Okay, Well, let's let's

615
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: dive into this and we'll take them in the order

616
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: that I've got him on here. How's that sound, Joe? Okay,

617
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: So the first theory or suspect is a local, so

618
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: saying that it's a local to the area, who lives

619
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: in the area, who also happens to be related to

620
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: a convicted felon. And this will make sense why that's

621
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: described that way in just a second. Maybe maybe because

622
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: one of the things that we do know is that

623
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: DNA evidence was pulled from the first three bodies and

624
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: there's no results of who that is. Whoever it is,

625
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: is not in the system. However, there is another available

626
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 1: to law enforcement, another searching method which is called familial DNA,

627
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: and that's the method that was used to catch the

628
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: grim sleeper, who we talked to Christine about yesterday, and

629
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: it could possibly do a lot in helping to solve

630
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: this case, which it did with with Lonnie and that's

631
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: what brought him down. And it is admissible, and it

632
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: is admissible. There's there's some issues with it, but we

633
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: talked to Christine about familiar DNA along with the potential

634
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: roadblocks of its use. Just a quick heads up, we

635
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: did the interview over Skype, so as usual with Skype,

636
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: the audio can be a little funky. Donkey did what

637
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: we did could to clean it up, but let's go

638
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: ahead and go to that audio. Well, I think that

639
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: you know a lot like a c l U and

640
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, civil liberty the organizations and civil rights organizations,

641
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, they believe it's an invasion of privacy and

642
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 1: they think that an unfairly targets minorities, you know, because

643
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: there's more minorities like African American, Hispanics, et cetera in prison,

644
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: So they're saying that in fairly targets that population. Like

645
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: England did a study many years ago and they found

646
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: that like if you're for the familiar DNA because as

647
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, like Lonnie, they had his DNA, but Lonnie

648
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: had never gone to prison, so he had never been swabbed,

649
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: so that's why they didn't know who he was. But

650
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: they knew he was matched to the victims in the

651
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: eighties and the victims in the tooth and the two

652
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: thousand's because of they found saliva on many of the

653
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: women's breasts and so they knew he was, you know,

654
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: there was one killer, but because he wasn't in any

655
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: felon data bank, they couldn't find him. So that's why

656
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: they decided to use that familiar DNA. And it was

657
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: the first time actually in California actually in the US,

658
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: that they used familiar DNA testing to find a serial killer,

659
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: and they checked it in two thousand eight. And how

660
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: it goes with the familiar DNA, I mean, they had

661
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: been UM England have been using it for many years.

662
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: And basically they said that if you're a felon, there's

663
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: at chance that you're going to have like a male

664
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: relative like a cousin and uncle, a brother, a father

665
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: who's a felon. So if you're not in the data bank,

666
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: there's a chance that you're gonna have a relative who's

667
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: in the data bank and so and so that's why

668
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: they did it in two thousand and eight and it

669
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: came back nothing, And then they did it two years

670
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: later and the felon data bank had grown four hundred thousand,

671
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: and so they did it again. And Lonnie's son Christopher

672
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: had been charged with UM carrying a weapon and he

673
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: pled guilty and as a result of his plea, he

674
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: got swabbed and that was in two thousand nine, So

675
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: he was in the system for she's just like close

676
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: to a year, you know, before they did that second

677
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: DNA swab and it came back as a match to him,

678
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: but he was They knew it wasn't him because he

679
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: would have been about two years old when the murder started,

680
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: so they knew he right, so they knew he had

681
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: to be you know, he They knew he was related

682
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: to the killer, and so they actually looked for any

683
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: relative and there was an uncle, well they thought there

684
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: was an uncle and Rancho Cucamonga, but they ended up

685
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: checking checking it out and finding that there was no relation.

686
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: And then they found out that his father, Lonnie, lived

687
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: like on eight one and Western, which was like at

688
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: the epicenter of where all the murders took place. And

689
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 1: so that's why they ended up you know, following you know, Lonnie,

690
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: if something like this doesn't happen, then it's gonna be

691
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: very tough to catch this guy. And we've we actually

692
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: in that same conversation, we had talked about some other

693
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: serial killer cases that were solved via DNA and what

694
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: a stroke of luck it was that that particular person

695
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: got caught through that method. To look at what happened

696
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: with the Green River Killer, it was like twentysomething years

697
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: before they finally caught him. Same with B. T K.

698
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: I remember, yeah too. I was I was around for

699
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: living in the area and a lot of people were

700
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,959
Speaker 1: very angry after all those years and they still hadn't

701
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: caught the guy. And it's just like you said, though

702
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: you're looking for a needle in a haystack, it's expecting

703
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: a lot, really, and it's really lucky that guy's kid

704
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: got busted the year before they were nabbed him. Well,

705
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: I don't think they ever if if it wasn't for

706
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: that familial DNA and that his son, I said, I

707
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: don't think they ever would have caught. I think it

708
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: was just too difficult, you know, it was just it

709
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: was just too hard. They were really they were really lucky.

710
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: I think they were pretty shocked themselves. But yeah, I

711
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: mean so after all that, I agree with Christine that

712
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: we were indeed lucky that they got Lonnie Franklin Jr.

713
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: The way that they did. Yeah. And uh and by

714
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: the way, generally speaking, serial killers like this usually unless

715
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: they really kind of are trying to get caught, they

716
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: usually don't get caught. Yeah, it is a fact. Yeah,

717
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: I mean that that's part of their thing is they

718
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 1: want to they want to have their fun, and their

719
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: fun is not had behind bars. I don't know black

720
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: people consider it fun, but okay, I don't know so

721
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: we have talked about already the shape the path of

722
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: the killings and the four and the fact that it's

723
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: about five miles east to west or eight kilometers between

724
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: the first two bodies, and it's about two and a

725
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: half miles north to south or four kilometers between the

726
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: second pair of bodies. Uh. And that's a that's a

727
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: really small range. And that's why it makes me think

728
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: that this particular person is a local and that they

729
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: wanted to stay in an area that was familiar to him,

730
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: which is again, this is something else that we talked

731
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: with Christine about when it comes to the Grim Sleeper case,

732
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: because Lonnie did the same thing. He stayed close to home.

733
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: He hunted in his own backyard. And that's like most

734
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: serial killers do that. I mean they had back in

735
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: the eighties and South Los Angeles there was um, you know,

736
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: six serial killers operating at the same time, and they

737
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: were able to identify all of them actually, and all

738
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: of them lived in South Los Angeles. I mean, Chester

739
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: Turner was one of the serial killers, and he hunted

740
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: like literally within two blocks of where his mud where

741
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: he lived with his mother. You know, they like familiar territory,

742
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: you know, they don't want to be surprised. They want

743
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: to know Lonnie was a garbage man and he knew

744
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: the alleyways like he knew the dumpsters of South Los

745
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: Angeles because that's where he worked, right, So they want

746
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: to have they want to feel comfortable. So that's why

747
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 1: most serial killers actually operate, you know, in the same

748
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: area where they dumped their bodies. I was always kind

749
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: of wondering too, if if one of the reasons they

750
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: do it is they're just trying to clean up the neighborhood.

751
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I mean, I don't mean that, I

752
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: don't mean that in a harsh judgmental way, but I mean,

753
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: you know, seriously, is that possibly a motivator for some

754
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: of these guys that they're they don't really approve that

755
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: activity and they'd like to see it sort of discouraged. Well,

756
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously that was the case for Lonnie. I

757
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: mean he considered I mean, it's obvious he considered the

758
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: women brash, right, and so he dumped their bodies and trapped,

759
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, so he considered them trash, you know. And

760
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: his wife was there, yeah, and dumpsters, and his wife

761
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: was very religious, so he maybe there was something for him.

762
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: He you know, I think he had this like compulsion,

763
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, I think that he couldn't control himself. I mean,

764
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: he had there was he was always after women, you know,

765
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: he was like addicted to women. And I think that

766
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: in his case, I think that, you know, he also

767
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: had this deep seated hatred and you know where it

768
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: came from. It's hard to say, because it seemed like

769
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: he had a good relationship with his mother and his sister,

770
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: you know, so it's hard to say exactly why how

771
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: he ended up, you know, hating women so much. But

772
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's what he thought. I think

773
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: he thought he was cleaning the streets. Yeah. So now

774
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: let's go to our second possible suspect. So the first

775
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: one is kind of a morphous it's the general description,

776
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I get it. The second person is an actual person,

777
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: and that's a guy by the name of David Lindsay.

778
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: In two thousand seven, David Lindsay was arrested for killing

779
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: a seventy one year old man um Now. Mr Lindsay

780
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: had also previously served out a sentence for killing his

781
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: own wife, but he had been working as a volunteer

782
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: in a homeless shelter in the area. Uh. And when

783
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 1: he was tracked down for killing the seventy one year

784
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: old man whose name was Austin Dale Runyon back in

785
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: two thousand one, people started to ask, well, maybe this

786
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: is the guy. The thing about Lindsay is that he

787
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: had strangled this the old man and left him in

788
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: the home, so that doesn't appear that a gun was used.

789
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: But because he's close, people want to know was it him.

790
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: They swabbed his DNA and for a while until the

791
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: DNA came back every but he was like, yeah, I

792
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: think we might have got him. And then that's one

793
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: thing that that's always bothered me about cases like this,

794
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: when people are like, well, this person killed another human,

795
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: so he must be a serial killer, and there's nothing

796
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: to tie, like, there's nothing to suggest that that person,

797
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 1: who is admittedly a horrible human being, is the same

798
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: kind of horrible human being, Like he strangled a seventy

799
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: one year old man in his own home and then

800
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 1: left him for debt. I mean left him, right. That's

801
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 1: totally different than picking up women, young women and shooting

802
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: them in the back of the head. Are you kidding me?

803
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: You know? And he shot his own wife or killed

804
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: his own wife, I should say, which again, she wasn't

805
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: a young woman that he was tracking down for his

806
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: own pleasure, I guess with technically, these weren't young women

807
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: the victims, but they're you know women, Yeah, no, I know,

808
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: I know where you're going anyway, So Lindsay was ruled

809
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: out good, which takes us to our third suspect, which

810
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: is Robert Rembert JR. Mr Rembert, was you like that name?

811
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: R R j R r J was arrested back in

812
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: and charged with killing four people in Cleveland, Ohio. One

813
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: was a family member and the other was a family friend,

814
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: and he killed those two people in the same night.

815
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: He shot them both. The other two that he is

816
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: charged with killing were women, and their bodies were found.

817
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: Both had been raped, and both had been strangled, and

818
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: both had DNA evidence on them that was recovered and

819
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: that DNA would be matched back to Robert Rembert. Probably

820
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: saliva in this case, I'm not I don't believe it was,

821
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: but so, but I'm sure people, if if anybody knows

822
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: who remembered in they were saying, why are you including

823
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: a guy that's from Cleveland, Ohio? And a story that's

824
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: in Daytona Beach, Florida. Isn't there a Dayton, Ohio? There

825
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: you go, dayton That's that's totally the connection enough that

826
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: I made yes, or it was the fact that Rembert

827
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: was a long hall truck driver and so he would

828
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: have run roots or he could have run roots down

829
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: to Florida, which would have put him into the same

830
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: area where these women were at. Again, the same problem

831
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: with lindsay, though they have him, they have his DNA.

832
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: They confirmed that it was the DNA found on the

833
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 1: body of these two strangled and raped women. So it's

834
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: a pretty easy slam dunk to say, does it match

835
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: these other women, which apparently nothing is you know, nothing

836
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: has come out about that. So I'm pretty sure that

837
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: they checked that and said no, it's not him. Again,

838
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: more than that, like it was over the course of

839
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: what was they were one year apart these murders, the women, No, no, no, no,

840
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: they were they were many years apart. No, no, no,

841
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: the actual victims of the serial killer that we are

842
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: talking Daytona Beach serials. Yes, they were all within three months. Yeah,

843
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: that seems like a weird amount of time for a

844
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: long haul truck driver. To like continue to be I

845
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: don't know, took a Christmas vacation. Yeah, no, but I

846
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: get it. And that's why I don't think that that's

847
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: I don't think that's right. Yeah, and again I think

848
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: the d n A doesn't support it, or they would

849
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: have charged him with murder. Well, this is this is

850
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: one of those dileos I think where the Yeah, these

851
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: guys became suspects in the papers because well, the papers

852
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: had to write about something. And you know, I mean,

853
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: so the police said, yeah, we're checking this guy's DNA.

854
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: It's probably a nothing burger, but you know, we're checking

855
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: this DNA. So the next thing and well, you know,

856
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: I gotta as a story because you've got to fatten

857
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: up the story because otherwise you're just repeating the story.

858
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: You know, you got to add something to it. So

859
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: there you go. But yeah, these guys had nothing to

860
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: do with it. I'm sure. Can I can I ask

861
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: you a question, Joe, Yeah, where where do you order

862
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: a nothing Burger? Usually like just go to any like

863
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: major publication network. I've never heard of that one before.

864
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: That's a that's a good phrase. I never heard of

865
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: that one. Next up on our list is well, it's

866
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: kind of not. It's another one that's not a very

867
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: exact another one, well, it's yes, the unknown trucker, a

868
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: k a. The I four killer, which in the news

869
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: there is occasional murmurs of there being an I four killer,

870
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: which again, it's a major freeway. And if you've ever

871
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,479
Speaker 1: listened to any of our other serial killer shows, you'll

872
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: know that this is a very familiar theory, you know.

873
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: There's it basically says that there's some killer roaming up

874
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: and down a particular stretch or several stretches of freeway

875
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: and you know, randomly picking out a girl that he

876
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: takes a fancy too and doing over whatever he wants

877
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: to do for himself, and then leaving her dead body behind.

878
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: That's that's what this is. It's very common, but apparently

879
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: very I'm sorry, it's a very common theory. Not it's

880
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: a very common, proven thing that happens correct. Sure, it

881
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: does happen correct probably, but we can't say definitively like

882
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: it's very common. But this happens all the time. Serial

883
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 1: killers out there, Yeah, every other truck driver. Yeah, maybe

884
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: not so much, Devin, because accordingly the FBI hip been

885
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: tracking murders all over the country, and they're actually looking

886
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: into a whole bunch of them that are happening on

887
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: the freeway system to determine if there's connections to them

888
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: and how they're related to one another. So the FBI,

889
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: I mean, granted, the FBI takes murder very seriously, but

890
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: they've actually got a page that talks about the map

891
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: and what they're trying to do to see if these

892
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: things are all linked. Sounds like a really good application

893
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: for a little bit of data mining probably, And you know,

894
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: that would definitely be the way to do this. I mean,

895
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: it would be hard to assemble all the day, but

896
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: you know you can get all the all the manifests

897
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: and schedules from all the long haul truck drivers, you know,

898
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: all their routes and time states and everything. Put it

899
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: all in there, and you know, along with all these

900
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: different crimes and everything, and just grind Google death Map, Yeah,

901
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: and just grind away for a while and see, you know,

902
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: whose routes match up to what's strings and murders, you know,

903
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: And you know, it strikes me the FBI should hire Watson. Yeah,

904
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, I mean Watson the dog. Well I meant wrong, one. Well, okay, so,

905
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: so I when I was on the FBI website and

906
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: I was reading through it, there's a really good statement

907
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: that talks about some of this and which one I

908
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: want wanting you to read this because I'm blathering. Okay, Joe,

909
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: can you read this statement from the FBI on what

910
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: they believe? Okay, I was saying, well, FBI voice, here

911
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: we go. The victims in these cases are primarily women

912
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: who are living higher risks transient lifestyle. Can we have

913
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: your regular voice? Okay, okay, let's try regular voice. The

914
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: victims in these cases are primarily women who are living

915
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: high risk transient lifestyles, often involving substance abuse and prostitution.

916
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: They're frequently picked up at truck stops or service stations

917
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 1: and sexually assaulted, murdered, and dumped along the highway. The

918
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: suspects are predominantly long haul truck drivers, but the mobile

919
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 1: nature of the offenders, the unsafe lifestyles of the victims,

920
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: the significant distances and multiple jurisdictions involved, and the scarcity

921
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: of witnesses or forensic evidence can make these cases tough

922
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: to solve. Which is unquote, which is by the way,

923
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: kind of an understatement tough to solve. Yeah, yeah, I

924
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: was going to say, that's a really nice recap of

925
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: what we literally just said. Yeah's authoritative. Yeah, yeah, we're

926
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: I think I'm tired of the FBI stealing our stuff. Yeah. Well,

927
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: so the reason that I wanted to bring that up

928
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: is and have that statement in there, is that you know,

929
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: as you read about these possible connections, it's easy to say,

930
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: well that that just seems too far fetched and it's

931
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: too much. But the more you read the Internet, the

932
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: more that it strips away your little security blanket and

933
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: leaves behind some really terrible people for you to be,

934
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, stuck with. Let's be honest, it only really

935
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: takes forty five minutes on the Internet on like a

936
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 1: conspiracy site to suddenly be like, you're right, the world

937
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: is flat and we are living on the surface of

938
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: the sun. I mean, honestly, it's like you can you

939
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: can convince yourself of almost anything. Well, but but what

940
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm talking about is actual people, because like, okay, the

941
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: first three people that came up when I ran a

942
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: Google search of something like killer traveling across the United States,

943
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: I don't know what my search was, but I got

944
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: John Paul Knowles, Glenn Edward Rogers, and Israel Keys. Three

945
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: very despicable human beings. Yeah, they're not not far the

946
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: only one. They're the first ones it came up. There

947
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: were the first three people that showed up in my search.

948
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: I didn't bother to catalog to search because it was

949
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 1: too disturbing. Um. So when you hit on the freeway,

950
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: just take your take a gat with you, yeah, or

951
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: maybe just don't go hitchhiking on the freeway. So the

952
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: last thing that I want to talk about when we

953
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: come to this unknown trucker theory is one of the

954
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 1: things that has always baffled me about these situations is

955
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: that there's never that doesn't ever seem to be a witness.

956
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: And so initially at one point they didn't know if

957
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: it was a transient worker somebody like that in the

958
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: Grim Sleeper case. I remember reading some little bits of that.

959
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: But when we talked to Christine, we asked her specifically

960
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: about why there was there didn't seem to be any

961
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: anybody that was witnessing the crimes, you know a lot

962
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: of them was I think the only reason, I think

963
00:53:58,239 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: a lot of it was that it was late at

964
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: nine eight and there wasn't a lot of people out

965
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: on the street. I think that's why. And I mean

966
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: he and also too, I mean, he knew what he

967
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: was doing, so you know, he's going to be stealthy, right,

968
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: He's not going to do it when there's a hundred

969
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 1: people around, you know, He's going to make sure it's

970
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: late at night. And I mean when the police were

971
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: following him around, you know, after they got the familiar

972
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: DNA from the sun the match with the Sun, they

973
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: followed him around and he left his home one night

974
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: at like three o'clock in the morning, and he went

975
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: to forty second and Western, which was like kind of

976
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 1: a popular prostitution hanging out, and there was two girls

977
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: standing on the street and it was really secluded. In

978
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: the detectives there was this undercover cop following him, and

979
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: he made a point to say to the detectives, He's like,

980
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm afraid that he's going to find out that I'm

981
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: following him because there was like literally no one on

982
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: the street. So he picks times when there's not a

983
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: lot of people around, you know. That's why I think

984
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: there's no witnesses, and then he brings them to alley

985
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: ways and not a lot of people hanging out in

986
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: the alleyways at four o'clock in the morning, okay, And

987
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: another i'd sale so that there's another another reason probably

988
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 1: is a nipped off somewhere to commit a sex act

989
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: which requires a little bit of privacy a k a.

990
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: The alley, the alley or behind the bushes or somewhere

991
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: where you're not going to be seen by anybody, and

992
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, and and that's the best thing about it.

993
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: There's probably another reason prostitutes our favorite targets because you

994
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: talk to a regular a regular female, and you say, hey,

995
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: by the way, why don't we go off to this

996
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: place where nobody can see us, just by ourselves, you know,

997
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 1: and it's the alley way, would be cool, Yeah, whereas

998
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: a prostitute is not going about not going to bat

999
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: an eye and I lashed anything like that. Of course,

1000
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: you want to go somewherehere you're not going to be seen. No,

1001
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm not going to disagree with you on that. It

1002
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: appears to be that's how that thing works. Yeah, we

1003
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: have another one another suspect. We have actually one more suspect.

1004
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: This is what I found on my own. So I

1005
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: did I did a little bit of internet sleuthing, and

1006
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: I found a very young, upstanding citizen while casting about

1007
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: the Internet using such wonderful terms as shot, prostitute, Florida

1008
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 1: two thousand's and probably one or two other very lovely keywords.

1009
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: I bet you've got a ton of a ton of people, right,

1010
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: I actually did get a fair number, but one of

1011
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: them that came back as a guy by the name

1012
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: of Curtis L. Richardson. And Mr richardson Is has been

1013
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 1: in the custody of the Great State of Florida for

1014
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: a host of reasons, the current of which is second

1015
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: degree murder. Prior to that, he was under lock and

1016
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: key for a number of drug related charges, but the

1017
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: one that earned him his current stay was the shooting

1018
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: in the head of a prostitute in May of into

1019
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: dispute over drugs. Now, I looked through his records and

1020
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: I found some, I would say, some interesting connections between

1021
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: him and the Daytona Beach serial killer. And I'm not

1022
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: saying it's him, but this is one of those guys

1023
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: where you go, holy crap, I wonder this kind of

1024
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: matches up because he was in jail from December four

1025
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 1: of two thousand four until October twenty three, two thousand

1026
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: and five, and then our first victim was killed on

1027
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: December two thousand five, so two months after he got out,

1028
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: he also went back into jail on August one of

1029
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,919
Speaker 1: two thousand six, and he didn't get out of jail

1030
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: until February six, two thousand eight, which rules him out

1031
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: for Stacy Gauge. But as I said, I don't I'm

1032
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: not sure that I want to lump Stacy Gauge in

1033
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: with the first three killings. But it makes him available

1034
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: for being the bad guy because he did shoot a

1035
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: prostitute in the face. He has no qualms about shooting

1036
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: somebody in the phase when he doesn't get what he wants.

1037
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: I've got no proof his DNA has has probably been

1038
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: run through the system and he's probably been ruled out.

1039
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: But it's just this is this is one of those things.

1040
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: So listen. We do this internally. We do this all

1041
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: the time, where we look at a board and people

1042
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: start posting, People say, oh my god, what about this person?

1043
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: What about this person? And I found myself going through

1044
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: the correctional website doing that very same thing. The only

1045
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: thing that stopped me is that because he's in the

1046
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: floor system. I'm pretty sure they've already taken his DNA

1047
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: and he's already been ruled out. He's a despicable human being.

1048
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: But it's interesting the dates the crimes are very dissimilar, though,

1049
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,479
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he shot a prostitute in the head,

1050
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: in the face. Yeah, he shot a prostitute in the

1051
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: head or the face? How are you looking at it?

1052
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 1: But they're actually very dissimilar crimes. I mean, because this

1053
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: is obviously this is the kind of thing that you know,

1054
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: you really see what you know, dumb people with poor

1055
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: impulse control who get a little frustrated to get a

1056
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: little piste off, and they shoot somebody and they're under

1057
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: the influence already that whereas your average serial killer is

1058
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: not that sort of person. He's somebody who's warm with

1059
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: article and not as impulsive. Yeah, it's not going to

1060
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: impulsively shoot somebody in the head, I mean, you know.

1061
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: I mean that's why I think that the character of

1062
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: the crimes, even though physically the same thing, the character

1063
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: of the crimes is much different in my opinion, and

1064
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: I'm in agreement with you, Joe. That's why I said,

1065
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: I pointed this into an example because I found myself

1066
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: in that situation that we always talk about people falling

1067
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: into and pointing the blame. Well, no, and he is.

1068
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: And he's actually as good as suspect as some of

1069
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:29,439
Speaker 1: the other ones that have been named. You know, they'll

1070
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: get me wrong. I'm not not totally slamming him for that,

1071
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, but he's in the slammer. Yeah, that's a

1072
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: good point. He probably should be. Uh yeah, I have

1073
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: I have one other thing that I want. This was

1074
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: a real question for me when it came into this case. Um,

1075
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: and this is kind of outside of our theory section,

1076
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: but if Stacy Gauge is truly in part of the group,

1077
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: how is it that somebody is able too, over the

1078
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: course of basically two months, going a killing spree and

1079
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: kill three women and then suddenly be able to stop

1080
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: for about a year and do it one more time

1081
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: and then not do it again at all. Like that's

1082
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 1: a giant question to me of how because it doesn't

1083
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: make sense, you know what I'm saying, Like it seems

1084
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: like bang bang bang bang, pause, bang done. I would

1085
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: not take it as a given that he's done, and

1086
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: he might have been. He might still be killing people.

1087
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: He's just not using his forty caliber pistol and was

1088
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: in the back of the head. Yeah. And this this

1089
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: is another one of those points where the Daytona Beach

1090
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: serial killer is similar to Lonnie Franklin Jr. Be The

1091
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: Grim Sleeper, because, as you'll find out, as we're about

1092
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: to talk about and with Christine, he took a big break.

1093
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: He took a ten to thirteen year break depending on

1094
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: the victims. I'm not entirely convinced that he did, but

1095
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: it looks based on the victims that were found, he

1096
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,959
Speaker 1: took a pretty big break. So I wanna we're stop here,

1097
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: and I want to go ahead and bring in the

1098
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: conversation with Christine and her take and what she shared

1099
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: with us about this. Detectives definitely don't think that he

1100
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: took a break. Um. They think that because two of

1101
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: the victims, Bernita Sparks and Genesia Peters, were found in

1102
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: dumpsters by you know, homeless people looking for like recyclables

1103
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and so um, there was a

1104
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: good chance that they would have ended up in a landfill.

1105
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: So the detectives think that a lot of his victims

1106
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: ended up in landfills because they think like he's known

1107
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: to have killed fifteen women, but they think it's probably

1108
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: closer to thirty. And that's some of the women, you know,

1109
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: are in landfill, you know landfills right now. So I

1110
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: don't know, like I think that. I mean, I know

1111
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: that there was a case in two thousand, so I

1112
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: mean his last known victim was in and then there

1113
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: was a case in two thousand. During the nineties, it

1114
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: was also a time when his kids would have been teenagers,

1115
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: you know, so you know, who knows. I mean, you know,

1116
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: maybe they were like, Dad, what are you doing leaving

1117
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: the house at three o'clock in the morning, Like where

1118
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: are you going? Like I don't, you know, I don't

1119
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: know if there was something going on in his family

1120
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: life that you know, stopped him from doing it, because

1121
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, like with for example, like Gary Ridgeway, the

1122
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: Green River killer, I mean he would stop at times too,

1123
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, when he was happy in his relationships. So

1124
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 1: I think sometimes he's like serial kill as they might

1125
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 1: stop if they're happy in their relationships. Like maybe you know,

1126
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: Lonnie was happy and you know with a girl he

1127
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,959
Speaker 1: was dating. You know, who knows. But the cops don't

1128
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: don't actually think that he did but you know, it's

1129
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: hard to tell, so I don't I'm not really sure. Overall,

1130
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: the whole thing is entirely disturbingly possible. Um and our

1131
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: killer is probably still in the area, and he probably

1132
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: did take a short break, or like you said, Joe,

1133
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: probably worse, he didn't stop and changed his Maybe he

1134
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: started watching Dexter because I've been out for a couple

1135
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: of years, was like, holy crap, I could just dump

1136
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,959
Speaker 1: them out in the ocean. That's so much easier. Yeah,

1137
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I mean people did, and

1138
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: we've used the term before killers evolved. Maybe his m

1139
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 1: O evolved and he realized dumping them in public spaces

1140
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: was not a good way to go, or shooting them

1141
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: is not the way to go. I mean, because his

1142
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: DNA doesn't seem to have have been collected anywhere else that

1143
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: we know of. Well, I mean, he also could have moved. Yeah,

1144
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 1: that thing that people do true sometimes that is why

1145
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: you haul exists good one. Or he could have started

1146
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: putting them in downstairs and they got hauled off to

1147
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: the landfill. As Christine mentioned about the Grim Sleeper's a

1148
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 1: lot of options that could have happened. Possibilities there so

1149
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's it's pretty hard to say. I personally,

1150
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: I want to think that it's a local because that

1151
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: makes it, it makes sense why Willie's place was kind

1152
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 1: of the epicenter of everything Willie. He did it, groundskeeper Willie.

1153
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: It could have also been somebody in local law enforcement,

1154
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 1: because forty caliber is actually thing. Well, no, it's not

1155
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: my favorite thing, but it's actually hadn't brought that up

1156
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: in a long time. Yeah, forty forty s W is

1157
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: actually a popular round with law enforcement, so of course

1158
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: it's actually a popular round with civilians too. But yeah,

1159
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: I just I just actually wanted to, like, you know,

1160
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: make all our police listeners angry at me. Yeah, wait

1161
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: a while, since you've done it, spot on. Good job,

1162
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: but good job. Yeah, I know, Thanks Joe Devin. Any

1163
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: particular favorites or disfavorites or my favorite theory is that

1164
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: he's dead. I kind of like that one. I like

1165
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: that one of my favorite that that is a good theory.

1166
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: I know. Okay, let me think, let me think, let

1167
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: me think. Yeah, long haul truck driver. Yeah, probably a local, alright,

1168
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: local I think it was. Now, Probably it could have

1169
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: been a local who had a particularly grudge against these

1170
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: three women and we just haven't figured out the connection

1171
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: means somebody who just wanted to, like, you know, scare

1172
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: away the prostitutes. If indeed they were all drinking at

1173
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: the same place, they could have all offended the same

1174
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: person in some way. Sorry, I do have another theory.

1175
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: It's called the Joe spectrum. Uh so one of these

1176
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: women was the actual target and Arson was trying to

1177
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: cover up. Is murder the murder? I like that. That's

1178
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 1: a good theory. Yeah, okay, yeah, I like that. Okay, great,

1179
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: al right, everybody, Well we uh we're gonna give you

1180
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:39,439
Speaker 1: that favorite part of the show that you have, which

1181
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: is all of the important details and little bits. This episode,

1182
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: along with all episodes and some of our research links,

1183
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: will be available on the website Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

1184
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: On there, you can also find links to merchandise and um,

1185
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: all of our basically every episode. That's what I was

1186
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: gonna say is that we have the episode list page.

1187
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: So we've been telling folks to go look at that

1188
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: if you've got to, if you want to see if

1189
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: we've done one before. That's a much easier way to

1190
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: search for them. We are on social media, so We're

1191
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Thinking Sideways, we have a subreddit, and we

1192
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: are on Facebook, so the Facebook page and the Facebook

1193
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: groups to join the group, like the page. Lots of

1194
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: great conversations happening there. If you have, uh, you want

1195
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: to subscribe to the show, which we love. We love

1196
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: if you do that, and there's a whole bunch of

1197
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: places to do that. A lot of people do through

1198
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: iTunes or Google Play or Stitcher, whatever avenue, whether it's

1199
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: download of streaming that you want to use, chances are

1200
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: good we're already there. If that service allows you to

1201
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: leave a rating, we'd appreciate that as well. And of course,

1202
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: if you've got any kind of questions or additional theories

1203
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: or comments anything like that, and you'd like to send

1204
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: those to us directly, you can email that to us

1205
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: at Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. And that

1206
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: is all of that particular bits of housekeeping. So I

1207
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: think I need a really hot shower to scrub off

1208
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: after this, So let's can we just leave now? Yes? Please?

1209
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 1: I guess Chuppy came out on scathed this time. We'll

1210
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: hit him next week. Next week, we'll get that little bugger,

1211
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: all right. Sorry Choppy By everybody,