1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: one two. A gorgeous young so called soccer mom who 3 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: adores her little girl is found dead in the road, 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: halfway in the street, halfway up on a lawn, with 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: a scene that looks staged, a bottle of absinthe delicately 6 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: placed on her cell phone nearby. She is naked from 7 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: the waist down. What happened? A neighbor's daughter and not 8 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: to work finds her. There no clues until now. I 9 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, Thank you for being 10 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: with us. I'm talking about a beautiful young mom lying 11 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: face down next to her a cell phone with an 12 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: absent the bottle placed on top. The mother of one 13 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: absolutely stunning. She's a Marilyn Monroe look alike who is 14 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: known by her wholesome photos she places online and posts 15 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: of her twelve year old little girl and her husband 16 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: enjoying really the ideal American lifestyle, the one everybody season 17 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: magazines and thinks it's actually attainable, a suburban life where 18 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: the family is happy, the home is beautiful, and everything 19 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: is in place. There in Alabama, according to all her 20 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: social media accounts, well not all of them. To Alexis 21 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: Terres Chuck joining me investigative reporter Radar online dot com 22 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: as we fare it out, a big break in the case, 23 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: what have you learned about this young mom and Marilyn 24 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: Monroe look alike double life Online. You're right, she's a 25 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: soccer mom, she's beautiful, blonde, and online she was on 26 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: a website you could you had to pay money to 27 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: access her pictures, and they are naked pictures of her 28 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: in super sexy poses. There's her from behind, there's her 29 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: in skinpy bikini, skimpy bras, and also there are photos 30 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: of her completely naked, which is fine, absolutely fine, but 31 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: a shock for a woman who is a soccer mom 32 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: and this beautiful, beautiful moment Alexis, Alexis, I'm just trying 33 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: to observe her. Alexis, Okay, you had a long pause 34 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: before you say it, and that's that's fine. Clearly what 35 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: you mean is it's not fine at all. You know, 36 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: I know what I know what I mean when I 37 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: when I say to my husband, fine fine, uh huh. 38 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: That means h e double l is just about to 39 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: break loose and everybody better duck. That's what fine means 40 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't fine because she's ended up dead. Police have 41 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: looked high and low. They have sourced, through, vetted through 42 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: every clue they could imagine, including surveillance video of her 43 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: at a local store just before she's found murdered. What 44 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: did it reveal, Alexis torres Chuck. Many people say, well, 45 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: how did her husband stand for this? Her husband knew 46 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: all about it, and he did and he had said 47 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: that he was fine with it. Absolutely, not to use 48 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: my word fine, but he said that he was not 49 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: at all upset that she was doing this, that she 50 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: did these pictures at all. But it's such a dangerous 51 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: thing to put out there, something that's so intimate about you. 52 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: When you have a child and it's out on the 53 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: internet and people can find you, so many bad things 54 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: can happen. There's so many predators out there and people 55 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: that are going to take things the wrong way. Well, 56 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: this is what we know about what he said to 57 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: neighbors and friends and conversations with friends. He's kind of 58 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: a heavy set, balding father. Uh insisted the death his 59 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: wife's death was purely an accident and that he never 60 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: had a problem with his wife's online activities. She's bringing 61 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: in money by posting nude photos. Okay. In the last 62 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: hours we learned and arrest has been made. What went down, 63 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: alexis So police showed up five weeks ago. She was 64 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: found dead on the side of the road and as 65 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: you said, you look stage, somebody had to have done that. 66 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: Her cell phone. Next were no clothes on from the 67 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: bottom down. Police had said nothing in those five weeks. 68 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: They haven't put out anything which was a we're looking 69 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: for a suspect or anything like that. They went and 70 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: they arrested the husband, Jeff West. They hauled him off 71 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: to jail for herr Jeff West now in custody. In 72 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: the last hours, just before he was arrested, he spoke 73 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: apparently to a friend who's dates that waters in great length, 74 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: said that his wife's death was a quote terrible accident 75 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: because of quote excessive alcohol consumption. In other words, she 76 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: died from excessive alcohol consumption. That's what he's saying. Well, 77 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: that's not what police are saying today. With me, forensics 78 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Alexis 79 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: terres Chuck investigative reporter with radar online dot Com forensic 80 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: psychiatrist Dr Daniel bober Troyce Layton, renowned defense attorney out 81 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: of the California jurisdiction to Joe Scott Morrigan, you're the 82 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: forensics expert. What do we know was the cause of death? 83 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: They're calling this Nancy cause of death as blunt force 84 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: trauma to the head and the classified us in fact 85 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: the manner as a homicide. You know, I'm looking right 86 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: at the crime scene right now, the forensics scene out 87 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: there working and it's really interesting. I'm looking at it, 88 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, and I'm trying to determine what clues we 89 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: can garner from this. She is very near her own 90 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: front yard, and she's half clothed, half naked. She I 91 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: think did have some alcohol in her system, but she 92 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: had blunt force trauma to the head. Now, I wonder 93 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: if the police are alleging he the husband set this 94 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: up to look as if she had been hit by 95 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: a car, or if she stumbled and fell on the curb. 96 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: This is one of those streets in a suburban neighborhood 97 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,679 Speaker 1: that actually has a little there's no sidewalk, but there 98 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: is a cement curb along the sides. Of the street 99 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: on the other side is the grass? Is he trying 100 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: to set it up to look like she hit her 101 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: head on that and blaming the booze? Is that what 102 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: police are alleging? Joe Scott Morgan, you know, I don't. 103 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm assuming that that that's the road they're trying to 104 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: go down. Uh. You know, looking at this thing, Nancy, 105 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: I was thinking, you know what, what in proximity to 106 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: her body could have generated this kind of event. And 107 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking the curb to a certain degree. Uh, if 108 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: it was, you know, a motor vehicle strike. Uh, she 109 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: would have multiple, multiple injuries to her body. Of course 110 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: we don't. They haven't released Sif we don't, I don't know, Hall. 111 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm I'm just a j D. You know, 112 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: you're the expert in crime scenes. But if you are 113 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: hit by a car, say in the shins, and you 114 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: fall over and hit your head on a curve like that, 115 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: hold on, Joe Scott, I'm pulling a rank on you 116 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: with me. Forensics psychiatrist Dr Daniel Bober, who is of 117 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: course not just a psychiatrist but also an m D. 118 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: You have to be an MPDE and medical doctor and 119 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: then specialized in psychiatry, or at least that's what all 120 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: the psychiatrists tell me. Um Dr Bober, listen to this. 121 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: I want if you can't answer the hypothetical I posted 122 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, could she have been hit by a car 123 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: and hit her head on that cement curve? And also, 124 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: this is freaky, very freaky. Friends have come forward and 125 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: anonymously stated that the husband knew his wife was let 126 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: me just say, an online seductress and he quote got 127 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: off on the idea that she was desired by hundreds, 128 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: if not thousands of men, but that he was her husband. 129 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: That's an odd theory to me, Dr Bober. I think 130 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: it's certainly possible. But I think someone being struck by 131 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: a car, you would look for a certain pattern of 132 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: injuries h that you wouldn't see if someone just fell 133 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: out and hit their head on a curb. So I 134 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: think you would probably be easy to distinguish those two 135 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: depending on the speed of the vehicle when the vehicle 136 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: hits the individual. So what about this theory that the 137 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: husband secretly loved the fact that she of her antics online, Well, 138 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: maybe he you know, resented her after a while, or 139 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: maybe he became jealous it's very hard to know. Take 140 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: a listen to what police are saying at this hour 141 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: about the arrest of the so called Kitticat Club founders arrest. 142 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: The Clear Police Department has made an arrest in the 143 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: Kathleen West murder investigation. Jeffrey William Jeffrey West, the victim's husband, 144 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: has been arrested and charged with the murder. On January 145 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: and around zero five ten am, the Clear Police Department 146 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: was dispatched to one block of Greenwood Circle on a 147 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: part the new female lying in the road. The victim, 148 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: Kathleen West, suffered from blunt force trauma to the head 149 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: and was pronounced deceased at the scene. The Clearer Police 150 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: Department conducted a thorough investigation. We had the assistance of 151 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: various local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. Evidence was 152 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: collected and processed from various different sources. We received our 153 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: last and final piece of evidence report from the Department 154 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: of Forensics Science the day before yesterday. The case and 155 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,359 Speaker 1: all evidence was reviewed by the Shelby County District Attorney's 156 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: Office and was screened at the Shelby County Magistrate's Office 157 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: to obtain the warrant for Mr. West arrest straight back 158 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: out to investigative reporter Alexis Terrez Chuck. Alexis, I'm looking 159 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: at wedding photos. He is in his full dress uniform 160 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: from the military. He's got a lot of stripes on 161 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: his arm. I don't know what it all means. She's gorgeous, 162 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: you know. She from the side. She looks like Pam 163 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: Anderson with her hair up. Jack. You look at this 164 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: photo of them, how happy they look. And I'm just 165 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: I don't understand how everything went so sidewise. Here she 166 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: is with her little girl looking absolutely she doesn't like 167 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: a Marilyn Monroe look alike. You can see she's got 168 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: on a sports brawn or a workout. She was found 169 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: wearing nothing but a sports bra. So, if this is 170 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: a murder, not only did he murder her, but then 171 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: left her to be found in that condition, naked except 172 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: for a sports bra. Alexas, what more do we know 173 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: about their marriage and their life and about the husband? 174 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: Well he was, he said in his uniform. He was 175 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: a U S Military police officer. He was also a guard, 176 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: a security guard at the local university, Birmingham Southern University 177 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: of Great School, and he though was so suspicious after 178 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: she was murdered. Well, I say murdered, but that's what 179 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: the police were saying, because he did not invite anyone. 180 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: He only invited very very very few close friends and 181 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: family to her funeral. He would think, this beautiful woman 182 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: probably has a million friends and all the children that 183 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: her daughter's friends with their parents that want to come, 184 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: and all of her family members. He wouldn't invite anybody. 185 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: He was completely silent about this. And you know, there 186 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: was a video that was found of the two of 187 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: them the night before she was found, and they were 188 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: in a convenience store buying booze, and she looked so 189 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: happy that she was She picked up that absence, but 190 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: she looked they were together. People see them that they're 191 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: laughing and they're flirting. Paths are on the bottom. It 192 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: looked like this very flirty relationship and it looked really 193 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: very happy until she died, and then people said he 194 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: became very suspicious the way he wouldn't even talk about it. 195 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: He wouldn't say anything it was friends about her, and 196 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: just kept everything very quiet. No, I want to go 197 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: back to Dr Daniel Bober about this analysis, but first 198 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: to Troy Slayton renown defense attorney out of the California jurisdiction, Troy, 199 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: the reason I was asking earlier about could she have 200 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: been hit by a car which made her stumble over 201 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: and hit her head? Could she have been inebriated and 202 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: fall over and hit her head on that curb, that 203 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: cement curb that I'm seeing, and you know what I'm 204 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: talking about. I would say it's about a four to 205 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: six inch cement um barrier between the street and the 206 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: grass and everybody's lawn. It's a beautiful neighborhood, big humes, 207 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: perfect yards, shrubs, the work works. And I'm asking because, 208 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: as you know, Troy, whenever I would try a case, 209 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: I would not only prepare my case, but I would 210 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: prepare to attack the defense theory. And very often I 211 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: didn't even know what the defense three was really going 212 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: to be until opening statements, and they could even change 213 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: after opening statements, like ken top Mom, the theory was, um, oh, 214 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: you know the grandfather, George Anthony really is the one 215 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: who got the baby out of the pool and hit 216 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: her body. Okay, well you never heard another word about 217 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: that during the trial, So things change. What you have 218 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: to do is anticipate what you think the defense may do, 219 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and prepared to shoot it down the minute it happens. 220 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: That's why I was asking. Plus I actually legitimately want 221 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: to know, Troy, could she have hit her head on 222 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: this cement barrier, That's what I mean, suddenly like four 223 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: or five inches tall? But could it be? So where 224 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: do you go from here? Troy? And analyzing it as 225 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: a trial lawyer really only can do what do you 226 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: think they must have against him in order to bring charges? Well, 227 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: one thing I know is that in a case like this, 228 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: normally the parents of the deceased want the right person 229 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: caught and convicted. And hear both the suspect, her husband's 230 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: parents and her very own parents don't think that he 231 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: was the one that did it. And what's really interesting 232 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: is that this woman who was leading a double life 233 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: on the one hand a beautiful suburban soccer mom and 234 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: had an entire online presence where people paid to see 235 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: her naked in her other life known as Kitty Kat West. 236 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: There are thousands of potential suspects all over the world 237 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: who could have had an unhealthy obsession with her, who 238 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: wanted to do things to her, or could have possibly 239 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: been involved in her death. Well, as a matter of fact, 240 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: take a listen to what Jeff West, the husband of 241 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: this Marilyn Monrose Locker mom look alike, what his father, 242 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: William West, has to say. Listen, because I know they 243 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: screwed it up and they're trying to blame somebody, and 244 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: they told him it was circumstantial evidence. Thet they say 245 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: they got proof, they don't know what they got. Straight 246 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: back to Joseph Scott, Morgan forensics expert Joe Scott, that's 247 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: what I would expect his mom or dad to say, 248 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: that they don't have any proof, but they've got to 249 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: arrest somebody. So they arrested my son. Oh yeah, you know, 250 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: obviously they're gonna say that they're going to deflect to 251 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: that position. But let's let's keep in mind. Uh we 252 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: as Alexis stated earlier, we've got videotape of them being 253 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: together that night in a liquor store, purchasing not just 254 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: absence but also James and Irish Irish whiskey. Uh, we've 255 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: got them, uh, you know, yucking it up. It's a 256 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: date night. So you're thinking, okay, well it's a day night. 257 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: Somebody's got to be watching their child. Uh, they're together alone. 258 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: So unless something just absolutely mysterious little green men descended 259 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: out of the heavens, um these two people will have 260 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: been together and he potentially is going to be the 261 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: last person that ever saw her alive. And that's what 262 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: investigators are gonna be looking at and pressing him really hard. 263 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: Over to Alexis Torres Chuck, investigative reporter, writer online, what 264 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: more do we know? Well, we know that he, as 265 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: Troyce Layton was saying, his parents were defending him. I 266 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: don't know how they can defend him when he wasn't 267 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: allowing anybody to do anything about this beautiful wife that 268 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: he was so called warning. But he he was hiding 269 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: after she was found dead. He wouldn't let anybody, sort 270 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: a very small group of people come to this funeral. 271 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: And he was telling his friends that it was a 272 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: Boozy accident. So that's a confession to me. And whether 273 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: Boozy accident falls under the terms of murder, obviously the 274 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: police think it it because they arrested him. What do 275 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: you believe at this point to Dr Daniel Bober is 276 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: the evidence they have against him? Of course, I'm sure 277 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: they've searched his cell phone, his laptop, his iPad, all 278 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: of his devices, his social media. But what could it 279 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: be that now leads to an arrest of the husband. Well, 280 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, Nancy. It seems purely circumstantial at 281 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: this point. But you know, you mentioned something about absent 282 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: in the beginning of the conversation, which is a potentially 283 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 1: toxic compound when mixed with alcohol. But I guess they 284 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: don't think that that's the cause of death. But anyway, 285 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: there must be other communications between the husband and the 286 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: wife that maybe we don't know about, whether it's texting 287 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: or social media, because it just seems that at this point, 288 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: with all they have, it just doesn't seem to be 289 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,239 Speaker 1: anything more than circumstantial at this point. Why do you 290 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: say that, I mean, Troice Lton, people say it's only circumstantial, Eviden. 291 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they're having a dirt sandwich. Circumstantial 292 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: evidence under the law, in fact, juries are instructed. Circumstantial 293 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: evidence is just as powerful as direct evidence. There can't 294 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: be direct evidence in every single case. There's not always 295 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: an eyewitness or a video or d n A. Sometimes 296 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: you just have to figure it out, Troy. This isn't 297 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: a run of the mill case, Nancy, if this was 298 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: just a regular murder investigation, then why are the FBI, 299 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: Why is the d e A also involved in the investigation. 300 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: Obviously there are other factors, and yeah, a circumstantial evidence 301 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: case can be okay, but jurors are also instructed that 302 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: in a circumstantial evidence case, if there are two reasonable 303 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: interpretations to the evidence, one pointing to innocence and one 304 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: point to guilt, they must adopt that theory which points 305 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: to innocence. Joseph's got more con forensics expert wants in, 306 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, what do you think regarding the blood evidence. 307 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: I think that this is gonna be key, Nancy. We're 308 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: talking about a head injury here. We remit if you 309 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: remember back they were they were referring to a head 310 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: injury when we first initially reported on this case that 311 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: there was blood trickling from her head. Well, it turns 312 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: out that this isn't just a little blood. There was 313 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: a huge puddle of blood at the scene. This is 314 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: what I think when the police are going over there, 315 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: and keep in mind they've played this very close to 316 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: the vest, Nancy, we have to determine, or they have 317 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: to determine where this initial event took place. They're gonna 318 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: be looking for blood trails outside of the house, through 319 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: the grass on the on the pavement. And if in 320 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: fact he attacked her within that house, there will be 321 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: a bevy of blood evidence inside of that house. Head injuries, 322 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: bleed profusely, So this is one of the things. You 323 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: have a pool of blood. This is gonna come from 324 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: the settling and her in kind of the final throes 325 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: of life, maybe if she was dumped there, but somewhere 326 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: out there, there is a copious amount of blood that 327 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: has been generated, uh from this attack. Uh if And 328 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: remember the police are calling this a homicide. They're not 329 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: saying that this is an accident Nancy. They're saying that 330 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: she was homicideally attacked. So that gives me an indication 331 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: that potentially there is some kind of instrumentality that is 332 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: involved in this event. I'm wondering what they're finding inside 333 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: of that house at this point in time. Take a 334 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: listen to this. At what point did Jet West became 335 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: the suspect of this he was he was a suspect 336 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: in the very beginning. Do you believe that um I 337 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: think her online professional activities, um it certainly warranted a 338 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: lot of attention that it gave gave the attention to 339 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: this case. Uh huh, I can't let me let me 340 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: say this. Um, we're still restricted, very restricted on what 341 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: information that can be given out. The case is still 342 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: under investigation, even though we have made an arrest, but 343 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: the case has to go to trial as well. So, UM, 344 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, information that that is given out can still 345 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: hinder the investigation as well as the prosecution. How he 346 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: was to decided that we did collect a lot of evidence. Again, 347 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: a lot of evidence was was processed, and evidence takes 348 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: time to process and um, you know we have to 349 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: wait on that evidence to come in so we can 350 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, connect all the dots. But again giving out 351 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: any specific evidence would be uh, could potentially hinder the 352 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: prosecution on that. You know, how exactly guess maybe what 353 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: len to that was trauma? We do, um, we do 354 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: have we know exactly what happened for the most part 355 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: on this this case. I mean, we can't tell you 356 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: what pervading, what what was being said one way or 357 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: the other, but we know what happened that night. Um, 358 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: we do have evidences to support that. But again providing 359 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: that evidence may hinder that prosecution. Let me thank our 360 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: partner making our program today on serious sex in one 361 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: two and our investigation Possible. It's legal Zoom and right 362 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: now small business big hot topic National Small Business Month 363 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: at legal Zoom. Perfect timing whether you're just starting or 364 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: you already have a business. Two thousand eighteen presents incredible opportunities. 365 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: Why new tax laws, including the single biggest changes for 366 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: business owners in the last thirty years, have gone down. 367 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: Legal Zoom helps you understand what that means to you. 368 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: It could change the face of your business. 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Don't miss this check out legal zoom 377 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: dot com today special savings if you enter code Nancy 378 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: in a n C Y in the referral box at 379 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: check out legal Zoom where life meets legal legal zoom 380 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: dot Com thank you for what you do for business 381 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: owners and those who aspire to start their own business 382 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: every day and for being our aren't her here on 383 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: sirius sex Sam one two Back to Alexis Torres chat 384 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: writer online dot com investigative report. Where is the husband now? 385 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: He is in jail. Police arrested him and he is 386 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: being held in jail. And one thing about this case is, 387 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: you know they went out, they were seeing that night 388 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: at the liquor store behind the booth. She wasn't found 389 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 1: until the next morning about seven am. It's not like 390 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: something happened. She disappeared and he called to report her missing, 391 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: even though she was just outside. He was just inside 392 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: the house and didn't say anything about her being dead 393 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: and naked on the lawn across the street. So he 394 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: was suspicious from day one. And the police, they took 395 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: their time. Five weeks they spent, He had a funeral 396 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: for her, He still lived at home, took care of 397 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: their daughter, and then they arrested him, took him to 398 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: jail and he there's no bail for him. Now here's 399 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: the thing by this act, if he did it, not 400 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: only is his wife gone, but their daughter is left 401 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: without a mother and the father has been arrested. For 402 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, uh, gorgeous Marylyn Monroe 403 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: look alike for real sucker Mom also an online let 404 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: me just say model Kathleen West has been found dead 405 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: in the early morning hours, half naked. All she had 406 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: on was a sports bra in the street by her 407 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: home and a very ritzy suburb in Alabama. Online, she 408 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: was known as Kitty Cat and head of the so 409 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: called Cougar Club. She was what they call an exhibitionist 410 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: because of her Marilyn Monroe resemblance. She made a lot 411 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: of money on a private site where she had sexy photos, 412 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: some of them she might have on a course at, 413 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: some underwear, some with sports bras, some she was naked, 414 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of people would pay a lot of 415 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: money to go on the website. Well, in the last hours, 416 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: an arrest has gone down after a lot of specule 417 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: lation that one of her so called customers sought her 418 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: out and found her and murdered her. Her completely unassuming 419 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: looking husband has been arrested. Jeff West, a former military 420 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: member of the Military, decorated Military member and now a 421 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: campus security guard at Birmingham Southern College, is behind bars. 422 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: He's behind bars without bond. Now that's the very latest. 423 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: I don't know where the little girl is. I don't 424 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: know who has her. I don't know how she's being raised. 425 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: Is she in foster care? I know this, The rest 426 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: of her life is going to be different now her 427 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: mom is gone, which is hard enough. By now her 428 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: dad has been arrested for murder. Why why would he 429 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: take her life? All we can do is speculate. You 430 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: may jump to the conclusion, Wow, he found out about 431 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: her online persona well, he knew about it and told 432 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: a lot of people. He actually enjoyed it. But was 433 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: there more to it? Was there a divorce brewing? Had 434 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: she met somebody else online? In the end, nothing changes, 435 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: doesn't matter why she was murdered. What matters is she 436 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: was found not only dead, but virtually naked out on 437 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: the street in front of their home. Troyce Layton, This 438 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: could very well be a death penalty case. It could 439 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: be if he was lying in wait, or if there 440 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: was some sort of special circumstance involved in the case. 441 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: But I think Alexis duress Check really made the case 442 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: for the defense. It is so dangerous for somebody to 443 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: put themselves out online where they are showing themselves naked, 444 00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: taking subscriptions from men and possibly women from all over 445 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: the world. It puts her and her family in a 446 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: very dangerous situation. And here it took the FBI and 447 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: the d E A over five weeks to make an 448 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: arrest in this case, So that means this isn't cutting dry. 449 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: They had to cobble together. Know what cut and dry means, 450 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: Royce laden, if it was from arrest of media, No, 451 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: do you know what cut and dry even means? No, 452 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: you don't, city boy, those of us who enjoyed picking 453 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: vegetables from the fields, coming home and cleaning it and 454 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: then eating it. Cut and dried means it's all done, 455 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: cut and dried. You've picked it, you've cut it, you've 456 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: washed it, you dried it. Now it's time to cooking. 457 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: Need it is my understanding, Okay, city boys, Roye like, 458 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: go ahead with your story. If it was cut and 459 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: dry as you explained, I see you chose to ignore 460 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: my as. If it was as you described that easy, 461 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: that's simple, that methodical, then it wouldn't have taken five weeks. 462 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: This is a woman, Kitty Kat West as she was 463 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: known online in her Seductress pseudon them, put herself out 464 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: for the entire world to see, attracting men, trying to 465 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: get men to be involved with her online in all 466 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: types of social media, putting her entire family at risk, 467 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: and then got boozed up and something terrible happened. Well, well, 468 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: that that's where you lose me. You know, defens attorneys 469 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: always do this. They took you. I've had so many witnesses. 470 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober Forensics, like, I just meant those to you. 471 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: I'd have a witness in the car at the state 472 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: of the murder, and they lead me all all the 473 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: way to the garden gate and then there comes the 474 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: moment of the gunfire, and I went, well, who did 475 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: the shooting? And they go, oh, I don't know. You know, 476 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: I turned and looked out the window at that moment. 477 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, you're in the car, you hear gunfire and 478 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: you don't look over to see it. No, U, I 479 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: was reading AMR. I was. I was reading a sign 480 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: by the interstate when that happened. You know, it's just 481 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: here he goes. Royce Layton leads me up to the moment. 482 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 1: She's this, she's that, she's awful. She gets boozed up 483 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: and then something happens. Isn't that a little vague right 484 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: there at the end? Dr Daniel bober Well, Nancy, that's 485 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: where the reasonable doud comes in. So there's still other explanations, 486 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: other credible explanations as to what happened here, and still 487 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: seems pretty vague at this point, really, like, what what 488 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: other credible explanation is there? Like the thousands of people 489 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: online that we're watching her, as the attorney said, one 490 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: of them could have developed some kind of erotic obsession 491 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: with her and taking her out. It's very possible, and 492 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: it's not, you know, uh, that far of a stretch 493 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: of the imagine, right, So you think that's more likely 494 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: than her husband gets sicker, he stripping online and kills her. Okay, Well, 495 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,719 Speaker 1: I guess that's a personal preference or difference, But this 496 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: is what I know. The local police Department had four 497 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: detectives assigned to the homicide investigation, two of them working 498 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: on not a single other case. The chief of the 499 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: p D said they interviewed dozens and dozens of witnesses, 500 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: submitted volumes of evidence for testing. Testing Joe Scott Morgan, 501 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: this is where you come in analysis of a final 502 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: piece of evidence. A mystery piece of evidence was returned 503 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: from the Department of Forensic Scientists Sciences in the last 504 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: twenty four hours, and based on that piece of evidence, 505 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: the case was submitted in its entirety to the Shelby 506 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: County d a's office. A lot of evidence was collected, 507 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: it took weeks to process it all, and based on 508 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: that piece of evidence, Joseph Scott Morgan, they I think 509 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: this rest in one of two locations. Nancy was talking 510 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: about the critical evidence. I think that it's either going 511 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: to be a weapon or here's a big one. I 512 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,239 Speaker 1: think it's going to come back to that phone that 513 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: was found outside of the residents sitting on that curb. 514 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: I think that they're being very very careful here. They're 515 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: watching the movements of these individuals and nowadays no one 516 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: goes anywhere without their phone. If if they're anticipating that 517 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: this guy is going to say that someone took this 518 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: woman off somewhere and then brought her back and dumped 519 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: her inside of that house, um, I think that they 520 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: want to make sure that every single step, every single 521 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: electronic footprint is in place before they come forward with 522 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: an indictment. And I think that that's what they've done. 523 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. This is a tragedy. Um, 524 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: there is a victim. This victim does have family. Um, 525 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: there is also a fender that has families. A tragedy 526 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: all the way around for everybody involved. And uh, you know, 527 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: from day one, we hit this ground, hit the ground 528 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: running on this case and gave it a effort. Twenty 529 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: four hours a day, seven days a week. We had 530 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: detectives working on this case. Uh. There was four detectives 531 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: from our department signed to this investigation, two of which 532 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: this was all they did. Um, every day, that's this 533 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: is all they did. This is all they worked on. 534 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of effort that's gone into this case, 535 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: and there's there's been a lot of assistance involved in 536 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: this case. I would like to take this as an 537 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: opportunity to think the cities of Alabaster and the City 538 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: of Pelham, UH Department of Forensic Science, as well as 539 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: various federal agencies. Uh. You know, I consider a name 540 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: off more than a half a dozen of agencies that 541 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: has assisted us from day one and this investigate issue. 542 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: And there's a collaborative effort by everybody to bring closure 543 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: to this case of arrest and as he confessed, Um, 544 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: as of my last knowledge of this, he is not confession. Uh. 545 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: I don't really know how to answer that. So, I mean, 546 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: it's not that he has not been uncooperative, but UM, 547 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, I would say, I guess somewhat. You know, 548 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: I really don't know how to answer that question. I'm sorry, 549 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: I can't know. Sure, I'm sorry. I can tell you 550 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: is blowing for stronger? There the majority of your homocide 551 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: organ master, I never last couple of happened. What for 552 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: the challenges that made this one a little different because previously, 553 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: you know, you've been out and arrest of them to 554 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: day of the vaster homicide, right, but it's different about them. Well, 555 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: the differences involved in this case is the victim's location 556 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: where she was located. She was outside of the home. Uh. 557 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: Typically when you have domestic you know, it's typically going 558 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: to be within side of the residents. Um, this was 559 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: outside the home across the street. The fact that she 560 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: was partially nude UM is one of the you know, 561 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: challenges that brings in a lot of other questions involved 562 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: in this case. I'm sorry, I was a passioned by motorists, 563 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: So then you're responsive fact, because it had to be 564 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: really certainly seemed like I had a couple. Uh and 565 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 1: so for I believe lestics well hours later, well at 566 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: six poet before I played for it to go to 567 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: this level. Your response to that, Uh, it's domestic. Um. 568 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, domestics turned bad very quickly, and anything 569 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: can triggered them out. So I mean most of us 570 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: in this room have a spouse, so you know they 571 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: can you get into an argument, it can change very quickly. Uh, 572 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: not that I'm aware of, because you don't know if 573 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: there's no history of the messy vibum that was That's correct? 574 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: What a sorry people you have it along? Yes, that's correct. Yes, 575 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, ah, you know it didn't seem to be 576 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: the times that I've seen him didn't seem to be 577 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: very upset. So I mean, I guess you can get 578 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,919 Speaker 1: different readings from different people. Um, you know, I guess 579 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 1: people take things differently. So I mean it kind of 580 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: hard to hurre for me to say it would be unusual, 581 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: especially in our line of work, because what's unusual to 582 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: most people's you know, we see a lot. Chief Limely says, 583 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: there are very few details he can release right now 584 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: about what led up to the homicide, what specifically made 585 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: the husband, Jeff West, the number one suspect. Here's this quote. 586 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: We know exactly what happened that night, and we do 587 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: have evidence to support that. You know what, We can 588 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: fight about it till the cows come home. But somewhere 589 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: right now, that twelve year old little girl doesn't have 590 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: a mother or a father. United always mean something. It 591 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: is to think something like that had happened. It was 592 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: kind of strange. I don't know what type of person 593 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: could do a thing like that. It's hard to comprehend. 594 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't know why anybody would, you know, 595 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: and abandoned too little babies like it. A rabbit hunter 596 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: was on a count she rode in northeast Arkansas in 597 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: the afternoon when he makes a very very grizzly discovery. 598 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: He sees the purple suitcase and he heads down to it. 599 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: It's in a roadside ditch with no identification on it. 600 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: There's I can't really tell how long the suitcase had 601 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: been there. He opens it up and finds the bodies 602 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: of two newborn twins. Twin babies found in a purple suitcase, 603 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: a scruffy suitcase at the bottom of a roadside ditch 604 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: in Arkansas. I'm looking at the ditch right now, and 605 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: it's full of muddy water. You would not want to 606 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: walk down in there. I don't know what propelled this 607 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: rabbit hunter to actually go down in the ditch and 608 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: get the suitcase. I would have just left it. But 609 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 1: something told him, urged him, propelled him to go down 610 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: and get the suitcase. Law enforcement in Arkansas are now 611 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: investigating the bodies of newborn twins discovered in a suitcase 612 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: by a hunter. It was a ditch near County Road 613 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: six O two and when around two pm, according to 614 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: Cross County Sheriff's Office. And they say, of course they're 615 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: not medical examiners, but they say the children appear to 616 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 1: be twins. The autopsy has been completed. Joining me right now, 617 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 1: veteran California prosecutor Wendy Patrick. Forensic psychiatrist Dr Carol Lieberman, 618 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, Lions and Tigers and Terrorists, 619 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: Oh My, How to Keep Your Child Safe. It's on Amazon. 620 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: End with me. Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, 621 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan to Wendy Patrick. Wendy, you're analyzing this. 622 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: I'm going straight to you because we know, beyond a 623 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: shadow of a doubt, not a reasonable doubt, but beyond 624 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 1: the shadow of a doubt, that this is a crime. 625 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: Because if children die in childbirth, that's one thing, But 626 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: why would they be a lot in a suitcase and 627 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: thrown down into a ditch full of muddy water. Yeah? Absolutely, Nancy, 628 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: we're looking at a cover up is the very first 629 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: word that's gonna come to everyone's mind. Cover up of 630 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: a crime. I've prosecuted cases where mothers have attempted to 631 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: dispose of newborns. I know you might have to. It's 632 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: one of those scenarios that is horrifying to a judge 633 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: injury to think that anybody is capable of this, But 634 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: we know that they are, and this case could be 635 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: in that category. It is so strange, and I love 636 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: that you point it out. It's so random that somebody 637 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: would have gone down to investigate, but the hand of 638 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: God was probably on that hunter told them to go there. 639 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: And look. Now we start moving backwards and attempting to 640 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: trace where that suitcase came from. It maybe a painful process, 641 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: but as we start looking in retrospect, where whose suitcase 642 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: it was, who was in the area, any kind of 643 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: eyewitness audio, video footage. This is the kind of case 644 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: that can be solved before it goes cold if we 645 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: jump on it right away, as the authorities are doing. 646 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: Santia Wallace, who lives nearby, heard the news and was 647 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: in tears and shaken up. This is what she tells 648 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: local station w r e G. When I left this evening, 649 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: I was shaking up, like I was in tears here. 650 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: I am want to have kids and for you to 651 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: like kill them, like who does that? You could send 652 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: into the fire station, you know, something like that. You 653 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: don't have to kill no kids. If you have information. 654 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: Chipline eight seven zero to three eight five seven hundred 655 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: just got more in Right now. The autopsy has just 656 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: been completed. What do we know so far, Well, they're 657 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 1: not really giving up a lot of information. What we 658 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: do know what they're releasing is that it appears that, uh, 659 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: these two little babies were were premature. They're thinking probably 660 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: a gestational age of about thirty two to thirty four weeks, 661 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: which would make them uh ballparking at roughly six to 662 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: eight weeks premature. Uh don't know anything right now at 663 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: this moment about identification or about what might have brought 664 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 1: about their death, if it was an in utero death, 665 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,879 Speaker 1: or if some if they you know, if they came 666 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 1: came to some kind of grizzly end following birth. Uh. 667 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of things, a lot of 668 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: questions that are gonna need to be answered. Uh. We 669 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: were just discussing this idea that um, that being able 670 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 1: to identify these children, and that's really where we're gonna start, 671 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: and a lot of that's gonna start, uh, Nancy in 672 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: two places. First off, with this suit case, because it 673 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: will be distinctive. We already know that it's purple. Uh. 674 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: Is there are there any identifiers on it, any kind 675 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: of markings on it that would tie back to some place. 676 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: And this is the one troubling thing that I'm thinking 677 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: about here, Nancy, is that, uh the suitcase, as you 678 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: well mentioned, was immediately adjacent to a ditch. I'm looking 679 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: at the pictures as well. Through the South, there have 680 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: been a number of really strong thunderstorms over the past week. 681 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: It is not beyond possibility here that that this this 682 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,879 Speaker 1: suitcase could have traveled down this ditch some distance, maybe 683 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: came out of a creek. You never know, and that's 684 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: something that you have to also as an investigator explore 685 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 1: going back upstream, what's the point of origin of this 686 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 1: or did somebody just merely toss it out of a 687 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: car as they're driving across the bridge the way I'm 688 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: looking at the bridge, I see I don't even know 689 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: if it could handle a car. I guess it could. 690 00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: It looks like it's um a steel enforced but it 691 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: looks more like a gully or a ditch. And it 692 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: leads me to believe it is someone local, because who 693 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: else is going to know about this ditch. It's like 694 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: off the side of a road as far as I 695 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: can see. And regarding the autopsy that finds the infants 696 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: believed to be twins at a gestational age of about 697 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: thirty two to thirty four weeks at six to eight 698 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: weeks premature, well that doesn't mean that they were born stillborn. 699 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: My twins were had just gotten one day into the 700 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: thirty first week. They were thirty one weeks. Um wait, no, no, yeah, no, 701 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: it was the first day to thirty two weeks, as 702 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: I recall, and they were born alive and not totally 703 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: well we're in Nikki for a long time, but that 704 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: does not mean they were born stillborn, and that is 705 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: also a very simple test to determine were they uh 706 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: dead upon birth, were they stillborn, or were they killed afterward? 707 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: How do you do that, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well, yeah, obviously, 708 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,319 Speaker 1: one of the first things we're gonna look at is uh, 709 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about this in the in the 710 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: in the past, relative to what's referred to as a 711 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 1: float test. Uh kind of grizzly here, but one of 712 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: the things that we do at autopsy, lease take a 713 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 1: look at the lungs to see, in fact, have they 714 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: are they fully inflated, have they inhalated air? You know, 715 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,879 Speaker 1: after you know, after the child is born, is air 716 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,920 Speaker 1: taken in? Are the lungs expanded? And you're right, Nancy, 717 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,280 Speaker 1: these children are well within the parameters for a viable birth. 718 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: And what that means is that there within those parameters 719 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: where they could have sustained life outside of the womb. Uh. 720 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: So we can't just assume in fact that they were 721 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: still born. And that's that's gonna be one of the 722 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 1: big questions that the Arkansas state medical examiner is gonna 723 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: be taken a look at in this case. Uh. You know, 724 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 1: as they kind of go down their checklist, they're gonna 725 00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,120 Speaker 1: look at things like uh physcal anomalies obviously, and then 726 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,320 Speaker 1: they're going to go down the checklist looking at any 727 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,360 Speaker 1: and I mean any kind of trauma that these children 728 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: may have sustained, either during the birth process which is 729 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: a traumatic event, or after birth where harm could have 730 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 1: been put upon these two to lote angels. Right now, 731 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: police probing the cause of death of newborn twins, their 732 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: little tiny bodies found in a purple suitcase discarded along 733 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 1: a roadway in a ditch. The autopsy reveals the babies 734 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 1: were premature, and they believe one of the babies was 735 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: a little girl you know. To Dctor Carol Lieberman, forensic psychiatrist, 736 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: author of a new book on Amazon, Dr Carol uh, 737 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: a parent's love has been described like this, um. If 738 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: your child wants a treat, do you give it a scorpion? No? 739 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: You try to give your child old their hearts, desire 740 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,440 Speaker 1: to make them happy, out of love, out of self 741 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: sacrificing love, because they are more important to you than 742 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 1: you are. I just can't imagine someone putting these children, 743 00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: these babies, infants, newborns, into a suitcase and flinging them 744 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,399 Speaker 1: into a ditch. Dr Carol, Yes, it's really it's really 745 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: very painful to imagine. Um. You know, the fact that 746 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 1: you can come up because so little is known about it, 747 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,920 Speaker 1: you can come up with all kinds of scenarios. Um. 748 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: You know, first of all, the fact that it's a 749 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 1: purple suitcase, that that would typically be a woman who 750 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 1: would have a purple suitcase, not a man. But that 751 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that a man wasn't involved if it was 752 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: something that happened after birth in some kind of violence 753 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: that caused the death of the children, for example, domestic violence. 754 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: You know a lot of times men who are perpetrators 755 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: of domestic violence particularly do this when the woman is pregnant. 756 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: So perhaps there was a man involved who pushed downstairs 757 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: or kicked her or you know something, and these babies 758 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,640 Speaker 1: were born prematurely, and then um, they didn't want to 759 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,720 Speaker 1: get in trouble, and so they put them in a suitcase. 760 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you can kind of come up with a 761 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 1: whole bunch of different things. Um, but at least, you know, 762 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,359 Speaker 1: I would imagine that the DNA would be of help 763 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: as well in terms of UM if someone was in 764 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 1: the if the DNA is on file for some reason, UM, 765 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,480 Speaker 1: that would of course help them to find who the 766 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: parents were as well. DNA of course. Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor, 767 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,360 Speaker 1: she's right. If you try to take the infants to DNA, 768 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: you've gotta have something to compare it to the mother 769 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,320 Speaker 1: or the father, or if there's familial DNA in that 770 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 1: jurisdiction has to be in a system. You've got to 771 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: have something to compare it to to make a match. Uh, 772 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,400 Speaker 1: there could be DNA on the suitcase. Wendy, that's right. 773 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,240 Speaker 1: And you know, boy, you talk about the ultimate precious cargo, 774 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: talking about this being found in a suitcase. Yes, that's 775 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,880 Speaker 1: the first place you're going to look once as uh, 776 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,880 Speaker 1: as has been pointed out, you're going to try to 777 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: figure out whether the child, whether the children were born 778 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: alive or not. The DNA trail sometimes just leads to 779 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,880 Speaker 1: frustration if, as you say, Nancy, we don't have anybody 780 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: to compare it to. But these are the kinds of 781 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,239 Speaker 1: cases that we don't want to grow cold, so we 782 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,000 Speaker 1: can continue. And you know, who knows what DNA might 783 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,439 Speaker 1: become on file as a case moves forward. We've seen 784 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: many cases where you get a d N a hit 785 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,480 Speaker 1: far after the fact because somebody else comes into the database. 786 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,359 Speaker 1: That may be one of these. You know, it's too 787 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: early to know yet, but you know, the very first 788 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 1: order of business, no doubt, is going to be trying 789 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,320 Speaker 1: to figure out not only how those children died, but 790 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 1: where did they come from, who did they belong to? 791 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 1: And then of course we'll move to motive once we 792 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,320 Speaker 1: get some more clue. Well, obviously, who ever gave birth 793 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:05,640 Speaker 1: knows about this because nobody has been reported missing infant children, 794 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 1: infant twins have not been reported missing in the area. 795 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 1: So what does that say to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well, 796 00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, I I gotta tell you something makes me 797 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,440 Speaker 1: feel as though that that they really need to take 798 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: a look at young, young women, young girls. I've seen 799 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,239 Speaker 1: this kind of play out before where you'll have, uh say, 800 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,919 Speaker 1: a hidden pregnancy, which boy twins would be very hard 801 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: to to hide. At that point, there should be somebody 802 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: that would know something. If you have a young, unwed 803 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: mother that has no desire to have a baby, uh, 804 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,120 Speaker 1: this might be a quick way to dispose of the 805 00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,400 Speaker 1: child's of the children's bodies. Uh, this is something that 806 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,040 Speaker 1: I would look at. But just so our listeners understand, 807 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about d n A. You're right, it is 808 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: many times frustrating and a dead end when it comes 809 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,680 Speaker 1: to trying to marry DNA found out of scene. Are 810 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,800 Speaker 1: our d NA off of a known or an unknown body? 811 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,359 Speaker 1: Back to the database, because there are essentially two databases. 812 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: There's databases of known offenders and these are very specific, 813 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,400 Speaker 1: and then we have what's referred to as a forensic database, 814 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 1: and that's unknown perpetrators that are out there that have 815 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 1: committed horrible crimes. And yeah, I think that it's worth 816 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: a look. We can take that DNA and plug it 817 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,719 Speaker 1: into the system and see if there's a hit either 818 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 1: mom or dad or familiar DNA. You never know what's 819 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 1: gonna be out there, But right now we're kind of 820 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:43,320 Speaker 1: in the infant stages of development of a significant database 821 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,280 Speaker 1: relative to DNA. We also know this the location according 822 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 1: to neighbors quote, we have cars that drive through drive 823 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,040 Speaker 1: through here all the time, but it's pretty quiet road 824 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,759 Speaker 1: because we're outside of town. That's why we chose to 825 00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,919 Speaker 1: live here. So this is an out of the way, 826 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,000 Speaker 1: a roadway outside of town, which means you narrow it 827 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:09,799 Speaker 1: down to who knew about this location? The tipline eight 828 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 1: seven zero two. This is what I don't want as 829 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:20,480 Speaker 1: a prosecutor. I saw every day cases pled down or 830 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,520 Speaker 1: treating more lightly when the victim was a child or 831 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,359 Speaker 1: an infant. Why is that? I don't know. Their life 832 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,440 Speaker 1: is just as valuable as an adults, but it happens. 833 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,560 Speaker 1: These are not statistics. This is a real case with 834 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,319 Speaker 1: real infant twins, And I'm reminded of my twins when 835 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:48,920 Speaker 1: they were so helpless and just born. They were so fragile, 836 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,480 Speaker 1: I was almost afraid to hold them. Now, all they 837 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,920 Speaker 1: have is us and the justice system to be their voice. 838 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:05,760 Speaker 1: Tipline eight seven zero two, eight fifty seven hundred Nancy 839 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend. Yeah,