WEBVTT - Is photographic memory a real thing? 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.600 Attention world. If you can make it to America, then 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:07.320 come see us. We are going out on the road 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:09.960 for s Y s K Live again, and we are 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.800 going to start the whole thing off in Chicago on July, 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:16.680 that's right. And if you can't make it to America, 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:19.119 maybe make it to Canada, because we're gonna be in 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.160 Toronto and the next night and Fourth Music Hall. Then 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:23.960 in August, we're gonna do a couple of dates at 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.400 the Wilburn Boston in October twenty nine. In Portland Mainz 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.920 Lovely State Theater on August, and then we're going to 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.519 be heading down to Florida. We're gonna be at PLASA 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.839 Live on October nine, and then the next night we're 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.080 going to be in New Orleans at the Civic Theater. 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.159 That's right, and then we're gonna round it out in 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:45.760 Brooklyn October at the Bellhouse. Yep. So come see us. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.479 You can get tickets and info at s Y s 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.720 K live dot com. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:01:01.560 a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works? Hey, 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.319 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.560 Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there, and the ghost of 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.840 Jerry Rowland just seated next to us, just Frank the chair. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:15.360 I guess, yeah, hey Frank, Yeah, Jerry. Everyone has a 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.240 hurt shoulder from bowling. Let's to go to the doctor. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:22.320 And uh did that deal which she's only done a 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.480 couple of times where she just hits record and leaves 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.600 and it always feels like the teacher is gone. It 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:30.640 feels really weird in here, and that we should like 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:35.440 do something disruptive and wrong. So we're practicing paper airplanes. Basically, 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.080 it's the worst thing we could come up with, doing spitballs. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.240 Josh just threw a couple of Pence's up pencils up 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.200 and stuck them in the ceiling. I still got it, 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:47.600 remember that old move? Sure, well clearly. And uh what else? Um, 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.559 we started a fire in the metal waste basket. Yeah. Uh, 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:56.160 Chuck's trying out drugs. Sure, and uh we started listening 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.640 to Miley Crewe. That's right. And we're gonna talk about 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:05.400 photographic memory, which, as it turns out, it's kind of 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.839 not real. Yeah, it's a semantic thing, photographic memory. As 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.320 you it's funny that we're talking about being an elementary school, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.720 because that's it's sort of one of those things that 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.680 used to hear a lot on the playground about you know, 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:21.880 so and so has got a photographic memory. You know, 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.240 they can read a book and like recite every word 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.800 from it or something. There's something so juvenile about claiming 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.760 that you have it yourself as an adult. Yeah, that 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.120 playground thing I hadn't put my finger on. But yeah, 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.840 And as it turns out, what you call photographic memory 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:44.080 isn't really a thing. There are people with amazing memories 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:50.880 and people with amazing uh techniques to develop better memories. 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.080 But this whole notion of a photographic memory, like you 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.200 could walk you know, like you see on TV or something, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.600 isn't really a thing. No. No, it's a from TV, 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.760 it's a thing from books. It's it's something that you know, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.480 you attribute to like Sherlock Holmes or just some great 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:13.840 genius us. Sure, obviously everybody knows you had a photographic memory. Um, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.160 but the the idea that that, yeah, you can just 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.560 walk around, have an experience or you know, flipped through 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.880 a phone book and like a year later recite that 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.880 phone book. That doesn't happen. There's maybe one person who's 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:32.200 ever lived that came very close to that who we 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.200 talked about before. Kim Peak the the inspiration for rain Man, 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.840 but um, they're still not sure if kim Peak would 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.160 have really fully fit that bill even Yeah, but for 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.440 the most part, that idea is not It isn't it's 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.120 not real. But again it's also a question of semantics, 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.600 because if someone has the abilities of a kim Peak, 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:59.320 it's like, well, you know, isn't that photographic memory basically? Right? Right? Yeah? 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.240 I think maybe. Then let's say it like this. There, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.240 anyone who says that they have a photographic memory is 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.080 probably full of it. Yes, they probably have a better 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.600 than average memory, that's what they're saying. But that doesn't 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.120 mean that they have a perfect memory. Because here's the thing. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:22.440 Even people with outstanding amazing memory abilities, they still get 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.000 stuff wrong. And that seems to be part and parcel 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.520 with this idea of a photographic memory, that not only 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.400 is the recall amazing over long periods of time and 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.640 in detail and clarity, but that it's flawless too. That 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.200 they don't get stuff wrong, they don't insert stuff that 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.120 wasn't there originally, they don't misremember things. That's part of 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:46.640 the photographic memory, and that doesn't exist for sure. That 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.200 would be perfect recall, and the brain just isn't really 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.560 capable of that. All right. Well, we're gonna start out 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:56.320 this episode though, talking about something else that's a slight 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:01.240 variation which is called idetic memory I D E T 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.880 I C. And that is something found exclusively in kids 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.560 between the ages of six and twelve, roughly about two 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.400 kids during in that age group. Yeah, So here's what 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.400 they do for these tests. You get a subject. You 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.760 get a little six year old or seven year old, 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:20.839 or an eight year old, nine year older, ten year older, 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:22.880 eleven year old or twelve year old. Okay, but no, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.960 no more beyond that. Uh, And then you show them 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.719 an image. Kid can look at it for whatever seconds. 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.320 Then you take that image away, and then he say, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.760 what do you recall about that image? And if you 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:41.440 have idetic memory, uh, for a very short term, you 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.480 can recall with astonishing detail what was in that image. Yeah, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.279 maybe another thirty seconds, maybe up to a couple of minutes. 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.160 And there's a lot going on here, all right, So 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.800 it's not like here, look at this image and then 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:56.920 that you take the image away and the kid goes 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.640 over and sits down and like really thinks about what 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.600 was in the picture. The kid holds the pose and 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.919 their line of sight just like they were when the 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.000 picture was in front of them, as if they're still 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.320 looking at the picture. And here's the thing about idetic memory. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.240 The kid who's showing off there, and people who have 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.239 idetic memory are called identic Ersay, I know it's weird, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:28.560 but um, the identic er isn't recalling what they saw. 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:33.240 They never stopped seeing. They're holding it visually in their 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.599 line of sight, even though the picture is no longer 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.280 physically present. Yeah. And one of the ways they can 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:39.880 tell is that they talk about it in the present 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.440 tent Still they don't say, well, the picture had a 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:48.400 red car with a weird looking dog driving it, Right, 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.640 it's it's present tense. It's the picture has a red 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.000 car with a weird looking dog driving it. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.160 So that's a big it's a big one, right. That's 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:01.919 people think, well, that's photographic memory. But that's really the 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:06.760 closest thing to photographic memory that science has really happened upon. Well, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.280 one of them will get into another one in a 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.400 little while, but there's a lot of a lot of 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.520 divergence from what you tend to think of as photographic memory. 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:19.120 For one, Again, it's a very short duration thirty seconds, 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.240 a couple of minutes, and then five minutes later they 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.040 talk about the picture, and the kids like what what picture? 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:27.559 What picture? Where am I? Why? Why did you drug 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:31.920 me and tie me up? Apparently even them speaking during 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.119 this period or even blinking can shut it off. Yeah, 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:39.080 and especially not just speaking but saying what the thing 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.680 is saying out loud. Oh, red car will make the 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.760 picture vanish from there there, almost like a trance or 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:49.600 something kind of it does really interesting. Uh. They can 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.280 make errors as well and put things in there that 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.240 weren't there, so that obviously is not a photographic memory. Yeah, 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.920 the dog driving the car had a cat friend. That's believable. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.440 That's really stupid. Kids. Yeah. By the way, everyone, the 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.480 cats and the dogs are getting along great. Just to 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.560 update that everyone's getting along fine. But we have a 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:13.640 one of the kittens is a bed pier, and so 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.320 we're trying to sort that out, which is not a 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.760 fun problem. You know what. The solution to that is 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:24.360 kitty diapers, the cutest diapers. Yeah, yeah, we're getting through that. 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.560 Not what do you do? You just like clap loudly 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.640 next to it. Yeah, you try, you know, if you 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:31.720 catch them, you try and hustle them really quickly into 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.120 the litter box. The whole idea is that get to 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:39.400 get them associating litter with being, and so it's just like, yeah, 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.800 but usually cats are really intuitive. I've never had a 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.600 cat that wasn't like immediately just literally trained. Yeah, so 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.679 this is a little bit distressing. How long has it 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.560 been going on. We've had like three or four bed piece. 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.760 Oh that's not too bad. They'll pick it up in 0:08:54.840 --> 0:09:00.120 no time. Uh. But anyway, I just want to update everyone. So, oh, 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.560 is this true about the idetic memory Uh studies being 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.480 done by the Nazis? Is that correct? Yeah, the the 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.160 Nazis found out about this. I'm not quite sure how, 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.160 but their attributed with some of the earliest studies of 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.280 idetic memory, and they, in Nazi fashion, gave it a 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.120 really bad name because they were using it to promote 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.560 how the Aryan race was obviously superior because our kids 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.640 have idetic memory. And so since you know, just about 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.960 anything the Nazis studied, whether it was legitimate studies or not, 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.160 it just had a taint to it. Afterward, I choked, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.720 if you will, Nazi stank pretty much right, and so 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.719 um they it was discontinued for many decades, and then 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.160 I can't find out who picked it up. It's really weird. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.760 Like when you look up photographic memory, almost everything that 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.000 comes back for research says photographic memories not real. And 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.600 here's why. Um, there are such thing as idetic memory, 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.840 but there's almost no information on like the actual study 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.320 of it, who's conducting it. Usually it will be like 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.640 they'll even sighte like one study everyone will this doesn't 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.440 even have that. It's real cryptic almost in weird and 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.600 just I want to say, fringey. But there's nobody who 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.800 questions the science behind. It's proven that this does exist. 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.400 We know kind of the mechanics of it, how it 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:27.120 actually or what the process is, what's actually happening or 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.880 how kids display this stuff. We know how to test 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.200 for it. So it is real and there's that catchy 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:36.000 name identic urs. It's definitely a real thing. But what 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.920 how it's being studying and who's studying is just totally lost. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:40.840 I mean, I can't find it well, and we don't 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:45.120 know you know why it's only in children or really 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.400 a whole lot of concrete conclusions about it other than 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.880 the fact that it happens. Well, there's some interesting hypotheses 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.240 about that. Let's hear it. Well, the fact that kids 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:59.040 from six to twelve are developing it and it stops 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.040 beyond that. Just that has to do with language development 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.720 and the fact that if you verbalize what the thing is, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.000 you've labeled it in a certain way and shut your 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.559 brain off. That suggests that has to do with labeled 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:16.040 or language development too. They think that maybe the kids 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:21.320 are not compartmentalizing what they saw in abstracts like people 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.520 do with normal memories, and so it's able to stay 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.480 in their in their visual field even after they're no 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.120 longer looking at it. Interesting. Yeah, But about two to 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.480 idetic memory, Well, it is interesting though because the word 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.800 photographic memory. This sounds as close to that as it gets, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.640 because it almost sounds like they are taking a sort 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.480 of a brain snapshot, because they're just sort of in 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.000 a trance and gazing at what it once was. But again, 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.439 they can't move, they can't speak, they can't blink, and 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.560 with you know, five minutes later, once they do blink 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.680 or whatever and snap out of this trance. If you 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.079 want to call it that, which clearly do. Um, so 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.600 we will. We'll just call it trance. Once they step 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.840 out of the trance, Um, they can't recall the picture. 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.679 So it's not it's not a very good example of 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.800 photographic memory. But it's the closest thing science has shown 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.360 aside from some other ones. Let's talk about later, all right, 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.280 Should we take a break? I think we should. All right, 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.360 let's do it and we'll talk more about PM right 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:53.000 after this. Alright, So, um, they have not found any 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.120 like again, science hasn't come forward and said, hey, there 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:57.880 is photographic memory and this is it and this is 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.200 how it works. Right, All those people who are like 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.559 promoting themselves with having a photographic memory, they no one 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.960 they no one's gotten their hands on one of them 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.440 and say, this guy is totally right that he has 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.240 a photographic memory, or she right, or they that's right, 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.480 But that it's still something you hear on the playground. 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.400 It's still something you hear people tout. And there's a 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.160 few reasons why. Um. One one is and this kind 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.120 of has to do with the perfect pitch is. I 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.560 think humans just like to label and assign geniuses with 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.760 these tags like you know, Tesla had a photographic memory, 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.160 and it's very easy just to write that down and 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.920 it looks cool on a piece of paper. Um, And 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.280 that's kind of just as simple as that. He he 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:46.040 apparently was self proclaimed with a photographic memory. A lot 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.680 of people say this about themselves. He doesn't seem like 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.040 the type who would do that. He seems like the 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:55.079 type that people would say about him without him claiming it. Yeah, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.439 but Mr T is one who claims to have a 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.640 photo Really so I saw Wow, so he could list 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:06.400 all the fools He's pittied right, all of them. I'm 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.680 wearring eighteen change right now. It doesn't even have to 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:13.480 look down. Wow, who else? You got anyone else? Teddy Roosevelt, 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:22.560 Uh Truman, capodikay um, Leonardo da Vinci. I'm not sure 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.000 if he was self proclaimed or if people just again 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.720 kind of ascribed it to him because he's a genius, 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:29.960 he is a da Vinci. But it is it's like 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.840 that that um, that kind of thing, like mythologizing extraordinarily 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:39.480 smart people. Well, we equate memory with intelligence, kind of 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.400 like Sherlock Holmes. Right, of course he's gonna have a 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:46.240 photographic memory. He's a highly intelligent person. Um so anybody 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:50.360 who seems extremely intelligent, genius level intelligence, especially someone in history, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.760 we would describe something like a photographic right to him. Well, 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.520 there was an author name Cava, this Wanathon who there 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.440 was a case where this author was um accused of 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.440 plagiarism from another author. And Kaba was like, uh no, 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.520 I just have a photographic memory. And I'm sure I 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.760 read that book, but it was just so like burned 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.000 into my brain that I must have just repeated these 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.080 things without even knowing about it. She said that in 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.080 the New York Times, and so that gave occasion for 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.600 a lot of journalists and scientists to come for and 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.640 be like, by the way, everybody, there's no such thing 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:28.880 as photographic memory. So but there is a thing as 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.440 plagiarism there. Yeah, I was looking. I was like, what 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.880 were some of the some of the examples that was 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.360 pretty bad. In the original book, there was a line 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.880 in truly massochistic fashion, they chose to buy diet cokes 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:47.280 at Cinnabon. Okay, that's the original. The the plagiarized one 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:51.600 is in truly masochistic gesture, they chose to buy diet 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:58.000 cokes at Mrs fields. Yeah, that's plagiarism. Yeah it is. 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.400 That's not even like, that's plagiarism. One o one, like 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.000 they I'll swap out one word for a like word 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.640 and then it's fine and like crazy. She said this 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.720 in the New York Times. It was a photographic memory, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.520 though it's not my fault. Another reason this is still 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.000 sort of out there in the public sphere is um 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.280 is the fact that there are people with amazing memories, 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:27.520 and there are memory competitions and memory uh exhibitions and 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.880 things like that. Yeah. I looked into that, Chuck, I 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.360 really so I got sucked into memory. I was like, 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.360 oh yeah, I forgot how cool memory stuff is. We 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.880 do a few podcasts on it. We talked about it 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.680 in cann of Thinking, Ca't make Me a Genius. We 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.280 talked about in a podcast to Remember Our Memory one. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.640 We talked about it extensively in the Amnesia episode. Just 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.560 some good stuff. And there's more we could do. But 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.359 one of them is this whole idea of mind sports, 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:59.480 which includes memory, but it is organized competitions to to 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.120 show off your memory skills. There's actually five mind sports 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.159 memory mind mapping, which is a form of like taking 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.520 notes with like icons and colors and stuff. It's really neat. Like, 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.560 if you ever really need to commit something to memory, 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:17.480 look into mind mapping, speed reading i Q, which is 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.840 a little iffy to me, and then creative thinking. Like 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.199 there's a mind sport competition for creative thinking. I was like, 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.359 what is that? And you'll be given a question like 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.479 a little passage that says, like the alphabet makes no sense. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.320 No one can make heads or tails of why it 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.480 follows the order it does. Put the alphabet into a 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.600 sensible order and explain how it makes sense. Stuff like that. 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.040 So there's people who are answering these questions coming up 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:46.800 with a creative system that makes sense. Though, right, it's 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.880 got to make sense. Yeah, you lose, you'd lose, you'd 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.280 be running out of town on a rail. Yeah, it's Um, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.960 it sounds really neat, But there's there's with memory in particular. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:02.280 There's the World Memory Championship and they're being held in Wuhan, 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:07.960 China this December two nine. Well, you think of a 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:13.560 show like Jeopardy, and um, there are things that you 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.600 can certainly figure out question and answer wise on Jeopardy, 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.199 But I would say most of that is recall it 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.640 is recall. And that's the same thing with mine sports too. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.880 Like if you if you talk to a world memory champion, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:30.440 there's one in particular named Dominic O'Brien who is what 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.720 I don't know, it's just funny to think of these 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.720 like a picture of walking in with his boxing robe. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.879 He know, he's more them. You'd find him with like 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.000 a neat scotch and a cigarette going in like a 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.520 dark bar somewhere. He just strikes me that a super friendly, 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.240 neat guy. And he's just like mumbling presidential returns over 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.399 the past fig you know, he's like running numbers or 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.200 something like that. That's my guest. And he's like a 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.240 bookie in a bar or something. That's what he strikes 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.480 me as. All right again, really nice guy. I don't 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.480 know he's doing anything illegal, but a British man named 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:06.320 Dominic just strikes me as like a bookie anyway. He's 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:11.000 an eight time World memory Champion, World memory champion, and 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.880 he'll tell you like it's all training, it's practice, it's 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.040 nemonic devices, and just about anybody who is involved in 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.840 mind sports will say it's all it's all practice, and 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.680 it's using techniques to expand your memory, which is really 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.080 amazing because what these guys are doing, um, one of 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.840 them is is card reading. They will give you a 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.639 deck of cards and you will go through scan it 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.919 in order, maybe be given a minute to scan it, 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.120 maybe three minutes something like that. You'll put it down 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.720 and then twenty minutes later they'll ask you to recall 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.680 the deck in the order of the cards. And these 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:50.199 guys like get it flawlessly perfect. That's pretty amazing. It 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.479 is amazing. But they are saying, like, I have learned 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.560 to do this. I was not born like this. I 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:59.840 don't have a photographic memory. I'm using things like devices 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.879 that are that are are techniques to help me remember stuff. Yeah, 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:09.159 there's this, Um, have you ever heard of a memory palace? Yeah, okay, 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.120 so a memory palace. Then it's just like building a 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.679 castle or whatever, and like different rooms or where you 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.879 put different things and specifically you might have a drawer 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.760 for a specific thing and you remember where that specific 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.919 thing is because you placed it in that drawer in 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.200 that room in your palace that you've built in your mind. Yeah, 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.840 and it's a very helpful way to remember things for sure. Uh. 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.680 And also shout out to a friend of the show 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.800 and Nate to Mayo and his great Yes, the Memory 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.920 the Memory Past. Oh my gosh, I never I never 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.480 put two and two together. Nate's still around, still a 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:44.200 great show. Well sure, sure, I don't think he died 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.080 or anything, but I'm saying like I knew, I knew 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.119 his His show is named The Memory Place connection. I 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.320 never did. You should have put it in the Memory Palace. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.399 That is a great name, Nate, and that is a 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.480 great I liked it even more before, but I was 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.400 just taking it more like like Tolkien sell her door, 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:04.440 like it was just pretty, you know what I mean. So, um, 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.199 there have been some connections that people have made with 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:13.480 sinnist eats and uh people with supposedly photographic memories. Um. 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.520 There's a writer named Solomon Schefski who was a writer 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.119 I think I already said that in the twentieth century, 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.520 in the early twentieth century, and he had these really 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:29.200 amazing powers of memory, and he uses uh or used 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.439 pneumonic techniques like we talked about he did. But he 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.240 was also a cinnist eat. So the point was made 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.119 here was that he basically had been doing this his 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:43.520 whole life involuntarily because of associations that cynistats make with 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.360 color and sound and shape and things like that. Yeah, 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.320 that's how that's how a memory becomes all more solid, 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:54.440 is associated with an emotion or a physical sensation. And um, 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.200 he was a multiple synisty, right, So rather than say, 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:02.840 like a sound having a color, this guy when he 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:07.040 heard a bell ring, he saw white, tasted salt water, 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:10.639 and sense something small and round from the sound of 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.160 a bell. He he would not read the paper while 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.199 he was eating because the tastes that the words on 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.639 the page evoked would compete with the taste of the food. 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:25.320 He was like, he would he had it just powerfully synesthesia. 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:27.200 That's pretty cool. Um, so yeah, he couldn't help but 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:31.480 have an amazing memory. Pretty cool. Um. The neemonic devices 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.440 everyone uses those in school or they'd tell you that's 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.359 a good way to remember things. Um. But then there's also, 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:40.720 um what and this is a grabstor article what he 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.520 just called relentless obsession. And you know, when you if 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.840 you want to go on Jeopardy, memorize the constitution, memorize 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:53.360 every state flag, every state bird, every state motto. It's 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:58.840 like it's if you pour yourself into that kind of study, 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:03.000 and you're obsessed over memorizing a certain thing, then you 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.119 could probably do it over time, right, Yeah, um, ed 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:10.439 uses the example of them what are they called the 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:16.040 shas Pollock, Yes, who were a sect of Polish Jews 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:21.240 who memorized the Babylonian Talmud, which, as from what I gather, 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.840 one of two versions of the Talmud. I think they're 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:26.080 like eight or twelve books. It's a lot, yeah, like 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:30.200 five thousand pages. And these these guys would they would 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:35.680 remember the Talmud so precisely that a case study from 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:40.040 nineteen seventeen based on eyewitness accounts said that you could 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:44.199 put a pin on a word on one page and 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.520 push the pin through, say fifty pages, and they could 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.520