1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Over the last few decades, thousands of wind turbines have 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: popped up in remote regions of the UK. 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 2: There's been a huge surge in renewable generation in the UK. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: That's my colleague Todd Gillespie. He's done a lot of 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: reporting on energy markets for Bloomberg and he says that 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: in particular, wind power in the UK has exploded. 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: That's largely driven by very deliberate policy measures that were 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: taken by successive governments and largely to take advantage of 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 2: the vast resources that we have in the North Sea 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: and in Scotland. 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: And Todd says this ballooning of the country's wind power 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: capacity it's directly related to subsidies from the UK government. 13 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: These projects take a long time to build, right, So 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: what the government did is said right will basically guarantee 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: you a revenue price per megal hour of power that 16 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: you produce way out in the future. Once these projects 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: are built, once they're up and running, you can have 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: a fifteen year contract from the moment they start going 19 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: forwards and you can basically be sure that you're going 20 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: to get your return on investment. 21 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: And at first glance, these investments seem to have paid off. 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: Just sixteen years ago, a little more than one percent 23 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: of the country's electricity came from wind power. 24 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: But last year in December, we produced over forty percent 25 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: of our power from wind, which when you talk to 26 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: people on the street, they don't quite realize quite how 27 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: clean our energy system is compared to a lot of 28 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: other countries. 29 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: But beneath those massive strides in renewable energy infrastructure, something 30 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: is lurking. Today on the show How a team of 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: investigative reporters at Bloomberg uncovered a problem within the UK's 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: green power industry that's costing consumers millions of pounds per 33 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: year and what it means for the country's green energy future. 34 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Holder. This is big take from Bloomberg News. 35 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: Before we explain what our colleagues uncovered, it's helpful to 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: know a little bit about how wind farms work. 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 3: Most of the wind farms in the UK are located 38 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: in Scotland and off the Scottish coast. That's where most 39 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 3: of the windows and there's lots more space there build them. 40 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: That's Gavin Finch. He's a member of Bloomberg's investigations team 41 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: and he and Todd work together on this project. 42 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 3: But most of the consumption is in England, so that 43 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: energy needs to travel south to where the people are. 44 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: To move power across the UK, the country relies on 45 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: a network of transmission. 46 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: Lines, huge cables that come along the backbone of the country, 47 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: and then they get taken down into smaller and smaller 48 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: cables through distribution networks and then into really local networks 49 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: and into people's homes, into factories, into businesses, and into 50 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 2: your street lights and everything outside your house as well. 51 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: That network of transmission lines is what's known as the grid. 52 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 3: The UK grid is very outdated. It was built decades ago, 53 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: kind of designed around big gas powered power stations. 54 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: One of the challenges is that you need more grid, 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: more cables and pylons to handle the rise in power 56 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: generation that countries are experiencing. With power plants that burn 57 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: fossil fuels like coal or gas, humans are in control 58 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: of how much electricity is being created, but that can 59 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: be trickier with renewable sources like wind. No one can 60 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: control the weather, and when the wind blows harder, the 61 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: wind turbines spin faster and generate more electricity. 62 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 3: So on super windy days there's just no way that 63 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 3: all that energy can travel from Scotland to England without 64 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: overloading those transmission cables. 65 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: The solution to this problem relies on projections. Every day, 66 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: wind farms look at wind forecasts and have to tell 67 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: grid operators how much power they expect to produce throughout 68 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: the day. If conditions are calm and grid operators see 69 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: there won't be enough wind power to meet demand, they 70 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: bok to local gas fired plants to turn on and 71 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: fill the gap. And if it ever looks like their 72 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: turbines are going to produce more power than the transmission 73 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: lines can handle, grid operators will tell the wind farms 74 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: to turn off and they'll pay the wind farms for 75 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: the energy they're no longer able to sell. 76 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: So wind farms are paid lots and lots of money 77 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 3: just to switch off, because otherwise everything would blow up. 78 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: That policy is known as curtailment and it's the heart 79 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: of Gavin and Todd's investigation. 80 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: Crucially, that compensation is based on what these wind farms 81 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 3: forecast they would have produced, so there's an incentive there 82 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 3: to overstate your output because then you were going to 83 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 3: be paid more money in compensation. 84 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: For Gavin Todd and the team. Their curiosity about these 85 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: payments started with a tip. 86 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 3: So we had a source who told us that we 87 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 3: should look at wind farms because he'd noticed that they 88 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: were routinely overstating how much energy they said they were 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 3: going to produce. You know, easy guy who's just very 90 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 3: on top of the data, and that was just an 91 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 3: anomally he spotted. 92 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: So they took that tip and went hunting for data. 93 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: Anything that's connected to the grid and putting stuff into it. 94 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 2: A wind farm or a power station or a battery 95 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: for instance, each of those will produce data on what 96 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: they're generating at what level for pretty much every thirty 97 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: minutes or so constantly twenty four to seven, all the 98 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 2: time while you're awake, while you're sleeping, And all of 99 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: that data from thousands of different assets combines into massive 100 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: data sets that obviously cover years and years of historical data. 101 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 3: Todd and I and our colleagues on data investigations, well really, 102 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 3: our colleagues on data investigations did the incredibly painstaking task 103 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: of crunching more than I think it was like thirteen 104 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: million market records into something intelligible that we could then 105 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 3: use as the backbone of our reporting. 106 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: What we were really looking for was for when these 107 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: wind farms said they were going to generate a certain amount, 108 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,679 Speaker 2: and we scraped to see all of the average estimates 109 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: of what they said they would do and the average 110 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: output of what they produced. 111 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: In other words, they wanted to find out whether the 112 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: tip was true. Were wind farms overestimating how much power 113 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: they produce and receiving extra curtailment money from the grid, 114 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: and if they were, how much might UK consumers be overpaying? 115 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: And what would that mean for the country's vision to 116 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: more than triple its wind turbines by the end of 117 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: the decade. What they found out after the break when 118 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: we left off, Todd Gavin and their team had just 119 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: spent months compiling tens of millions of wind farm records 120 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: and they had created a data set that could answer 121 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: their question, had certain UK wind farms been overestimating their 122 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: power output when. 123 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: We're looking at this data, what we're looking at is 124 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: data both on their generation but also on what's known 125 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 2: as their physical notification. So that's what they tell the 126 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: grid that they're expecting to forecast earlier in the day. 127 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: And you can see in plain sight. Once you when 128 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: I say in plain sight. Once you crunch the numbers 129 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: in kind of you know, produce very nice looking charts afterwards, 130 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: thanks to our colleagues, you can see the gap in 131 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: between those numbers quite starkly. 132 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: What became glaringly obvious once you analyze that data was 133 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: that about the third of the wind farms in our 134 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: analysis were routinely overstating how much energy they said they 135 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: were going to produce by at least ten percent, With 136 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 3: a bunch you're overestimating by at least twenty percent. And 137 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 3: there are outliers within that that were kind of up 138 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: at the thirty forty to fifty percent mark in terms 139 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: of overstatement. Now this is controversial because you know they're 140 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: paid compensation based on those forecast generation. 141 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: How accurately should these operators be able to estimate that 142 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: output on any given day. 143 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: So some of the wind farms in the analysis that 144 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: we did, some of them got it remarkably accurate. There 145 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: were a bunch that underestimated how much energy they would 146 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 3: actually produce, but about a third overestimated by more than 147 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: ten percent. 148 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: So you find this gap between how much energy certain 149 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: wind farms say they'll produce and the reality. What is 150 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: going through your heads as reporters and investigators. What could 151 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: that mean for the industry for consumers. 152 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: Well, when you see that persistent gap and you speak 153 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: to experts, and experts say, well, if you're bad at forecasting, 154 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: you should be bad at forecasting both sides, right, So 155 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: you should come out somewhere around zero, because you should 156 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: be understating as much as you're overstating. So when you 157 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 3: see such a positive tilt towards overstatement, it's just a 158 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: red flag that something's going on there, especially when the 159 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 3: wind farm it's in their favor to overstate. If you 160 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 3: are overstating how much energy you're going to produce on 161 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 3: any given day, then if you are switched off, you're 162 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: going to be being paid for energy that you never 163 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 3: had any intention of producing in the first place. 164 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: What's the response been like from wind farm operators themselves 165 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: who are making these overestimates. 166 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's important to stress that all the energy 167 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 3: companies that we approach for comment said that they tried 168 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 3: to make their forecasting as accurate as possible and hired 169 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: third party contractors to help them do that. They said 170 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 3: they take compliance with market rules and regulations very seriously, 171 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 3: that they've never been contacted by off GEM or the 172 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 3: government about any of their forecasts, and they also said 173 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: that you know, sometimes it is just very hard to 174 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: predict what the wind is going to do. 175 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: Off GEM is the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets 176 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: energy regulator in the UK. 177 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: Off GEM, which has done a lot of work looking 178 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: at retail costs household bill costs in the past couple 179 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: of years. On this front, they said that they do 180 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: look at the behavior of energy market participants to ensure 181 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: they're following the rules all the time and that any 182 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: operators that are found to be deliberately submitting misleading information 183 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 2: can face substantial finds. But on our specific findings they 184 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: didn't comment yet. 185 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: Former UK Energy Secretary Jacob Riis magg said he was 186 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: shocked by the scale of overestimation in Bloomberg's findings and 187 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: he called on off GEM to act urgently and investigate 188 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: whether any of the wind firm operators were committing fraud. 189 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: So what does this all mean for British consumers? 190 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: So the way that this works is quite a complex 191 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: system of this money that the grid uses to pay 192 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: them to turn off and the money that they pay 193 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: gas plants to turn up. Because of these constraints. You know, 194 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: this constraint bill is rising every year in this country. 195 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: So the big picture is that over the next decade 196 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: people are very worried that this annual toll is going 197 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: to be into the billions of pounds. At the moment, 198 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: it's about eight hundred or so million pounds. In the 199 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 2: worst recent year in twenty twenty two, UK bill payers 200 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: paid about eight hundred million pounds extra because of the 201 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: costs associated with constraints. Generally speaking, so switching off these 202 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: wind turbines and paying gas plants to switch up. This 203 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: level of exaggeration we've calculated over the past five years 204 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: added over fifty million pounds to their bills, so it's 205 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: it's not insignificant addition to that. 206 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: That's a lot of numbers. So to break it down, 207 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: that eight hundred million pounds, that's the amount of extra 208 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: money UK consumers paid because of grid constraints in twenty 209 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: twenty two. That includes things like curtailment payments and money 210 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: paid to gas fired power plants to produce extra electricity. 211 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: The fifty million pounds is how much are Instigations Team 212 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: calculated wind farms have been paid unnecessarily over the last 213 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: five years because they've overestimated their power output. 214 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: But the key thing really is that when we're looking 215 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: forward now, the UK government is looking to massively expand 216 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: wind power even more than it has already. We're looking 217 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: to triple more than triple the amount of wind capacity 218 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: that we have on the system by the end of 219 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 2: this decade. So even these small variances and these relatively 220 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: small estimation biases that you might call them, will start 221 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: having a bigger and bigger impact as the next few 222 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: years go on, unless the kinds of behavior that we've 223 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: seen and these kinds of patterns are reduced significantly. 224 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: Obviously it's hard to ascertain intent through this data, But 225 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: what is your reporting show about why these best estimates 226 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: are so inaccurate for some wind farm operators, why are 227 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: they overestimating their output? 228 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 3: Well, it's difficult to say exactly the motivations for why 229 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: wind farms are overstating quite as much as they are. 230 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 3: You know, certainly we've spoken with traders who are at 231 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 3: firms that are not overstating, and they were left sketching 232 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 3: their heads. They were like, well, there's no reason for 233 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: getting it so consistently wrong when they can get it 234 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: so consistently right, and their wind farms are only a 235 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 3: few miles away from these other wind farms that were 236 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 3: getting it so wrong. And so these traders that we 237 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: spoke to, you know, they said, well, really, the only 238 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 3: reason for that is that it's financially beneficial to some 239 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 3: wind farms to behave in this way. 240 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: So, after doing all this reporting, reviewing, dizzying numbers of 241 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: millions of records, crunching the data, what are you taking away? 242 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 2: What it really shows is that the advent and the 243 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: real surge and renewable energy that a lot of countries, 244 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: not just the UK, are having, means that they're going 245 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: to be reckoning with a lot of unpredictability, a lot 246 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: of questions over the integrity of their stay systems and 247 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: what a really sort of distributed energy market means. And 248 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: there needs to be you know, the regulators and policymakers 249 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: need to make sure that the market design and the 250 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: enforcement of energy market regulation need to make sure that 251 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: that's up to scratch and the energy transition is positive. 252 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: As it is for the Fire against Climate change, it 253 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: also poses serious challenges. 254 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 3: You know. What I'm left with from this reporting project 255 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 3: is a worry that consumers are being saddled with lots 256 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 3: of additional costs by energy firms who often are acting 257 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 3: very much within the rules, very much within the law, 258 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: but they are exploiting loopholes and badly drawn up market 259 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 3: rules to maximize their revenue at the expense of fill pairs. There. 260 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 3: We actually spoke to one trader who put it very 261 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 3: blunt that he basically said, look, what do you think 262 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 3: happens when you incentivize a group of people to make 263 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: as much money as they possibly can, saying just as 264 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 3: side of the law. Well, they're going to make as 265 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: much money as they possibly can, staying just the side 266 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: of the law. 267 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: Gavin Todd, thank you so much for being on the show. 268 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: Thanks for having us. 269 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 3: Thank you very much. 270 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: This story was part of the power Plays series from 271 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's investigations team. You can find Gavin and Todd's piece 272 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: and other stories from the series by searching for Powerplays 273 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: on bloomberg dot com. Thanks for listening to the Big 274 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. This episode was 275 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: produced by David Fox. It was edited by Nicole Beemster, 276 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: bor Alex Campbell, and Naomi Shaven. It was mixed by 277 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: Alex Huguia. It was fact checked by Tiffany Choi. Our 278 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: senior producers are Naomi Shaven and jillda Di Carly. We 279 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: get editorial direction from Elizabeth Ponso. Nicole Beemster bor is 280 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: our ex executive producer. Sage Bauman is our head of podcasts. 281 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Gavin Finch and Todd Gillespie for their reporting. 282 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in. We'll be back tomorrow