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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Josh and for this week's select, I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our two thousand nineteen episode Cave Diving Totally Nuts,

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Speaker 1: one of the most apt titles for any of our episodes.

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Speaker 1: Cave diving is indeed nuts, and you need nerves of

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Speaker 1: steel or to be utterly careless, because it's one of

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Speaker 1: the most dangerous activities a person on Earth today could pursue.

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Speaker 1: But both cave diving and the things that cave divers

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Speaker 1: do and see are both immensely interesting. So I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy listening to this classic episode as much as

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Speaker 1: I did. Again, Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, Nurse Charles W. Danger is his middle name,

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Speaker 1: even though it begins with W. Bryant. And there's Jerry

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Speaker 1: Jerome Rolling. We're gonna stick with Jerome, Okay, it's a

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Speaker 1: good cave diver's name. Yeah, I have just my regular

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Speaker 1: name because I would never in a million years cave dive,

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Speaker 1: but I never even scuba dived, I have. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: believe that open water stuff. I got really um like,

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Speaker 1: I guess seasick. Right afterward two and I was convinced

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Speaker 1: that it had to do with the arrows breathing. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm done, which stinks, because it was really cool.

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Speaker 1: Breathing underwater is one of the neatest experiences you will

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Speaker 1: ever have. It's really cool, but not not snorkel Like

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Speaker 1: you're totally you're underwater and you're breathing. Even if it's pool,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Just take like a scuba lesson once

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Speaker 1: and you'll you'll there, you go, You're done. I have

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Speaker 1: dreams where I can breathe underwater a lot. But it's

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Speaker 1: not like, hey, I'm aquaman and I'm just breathing like

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Speaker 1: a fish or something. It's that I figured out how

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Speaker 1: to very slowly draw in air, very carefully from the

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Speaker 1: water around me. It's it's really a strange dream, but

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Speaker 1: I have it a lot. It's pretty cool. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what it means. I don't either. I can't

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Speaker 1: even begin to guess. But what's more boring than talking

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Speaker 1: about someone's dreams? They say that nothing is more boring

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Speaker 1: than that. Yeah, I thought that was a pretty interesting

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Speaker 1: one though. Thanks. If you're going to talk about your dream,

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Speaker 1: that's a good one to go with. Um, we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about your dreams today though, Chuck. Now we're talking

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Speaker 1: about cave diving, right, which is not a dream. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I don't think it's not for me.

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Speaker 1: Like I I couldn't even go like regular cavings, which

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Speaker 1: I did the one time. I can't remember. Did you

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Speaker 1: enjoy it? I did? It was a butt kicker physically,

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Speaker 1: very hard work. But I remember describing the pancake thing

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Speaker 1: that I went through where the you know, I was

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Speaker 1: laying on my back squirming through in the in the

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Speaker 1: rock face was three inches above my body and face

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Speaker 1: and you could you're getting nervous now. I don't even

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Speaker 1: like hearing about it. Yeah, that was a little weird.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not even a claustrophobic guy, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, you could die in here. I've

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Speaker 1: read about a poor guy, maybe the poorest of all time,

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Speaker 1: well one of them, who was caving with his family,

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Speaker 1: friends and family and got stuck and ended up dying

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Speaker 1: his his like they could get to him, they could

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Speaker 1: move his foot, they could touch his leg legs, but

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Speaker 1: he was just so stuck that they just couldn't do

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Speaker 1: anything for him. And so they decided to go home.

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Speaker 1: He died. No, they were there the whole time, but

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Speaker 1: he over like I think the course of twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: He he just died. The slow she's terrifying death. So

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Speaker 1: they couldn't They could reach his foot, but not his mouth, clearly, yes,

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Speaker 1: to give him, you know, nutrients. They tried to give

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Speaker 1: him stuff through an ivy. I think they tried to

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Speaker 1: give him a sedative and it kept falling out of

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Speaker 1: his leg, so they couldn't even do that. Oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: it was bad. It's hard to even here about, I know.

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Speaker 1: In but this is cave diving, which is even more

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Speaker 1: dangerous than caving. Yeah, And there's a couple of a

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Speaker 1: few types of diving. There's the open water diving that

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Speaker 1: you were talking about, there's cavern diving, and open water

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Speaker 1: diving just means, if you know, if you get in trouble,

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Speaker 1: go up and you'll reach the surface exactly. You're not

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Speaker 1: gonna get hit in the head by a cave ceiling

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Speaker 1: right or pinned down through crevasse. No. Cavern diving is

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Speaker 1: a little different in that you're in a cavern, but

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Speaker 1: you should be able to see sunlight above you, and

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Speaker 1: if you go up, you can get your head out

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Speaker 1: eventually you're from what I saw, the definition is you're

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Speaker 1: no more than seventy ft deep, okay, and you're within

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Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty linear feet of the cave mouth

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Speaker 1: or more specifically, your surroundings are illuminated by daylight. That's

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Speaker 1: that's really what separates cavern diving from cave diving. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like remember a bio speleology episode, So this

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Speaker 1: would be the twilight zone between the dark zone and

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Speaker 1: the light zone. That that would be kind of cavern

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Speaker 1: diving diving in the twilight zone. Right. Then you get

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Speaker 1: to cave diving, and that is serious business. This is

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Speaker 1: not uh what's considered recreational diving. Uh, this is going

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Speaker 1: deep and dark. Yeah with David re Going deep with

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Speaker 1: David Reese, I haven't spoken to recent a while. I

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Speaker 1: love that guy. Oh he's a great guy. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: this is a technical diving. Can give another definition of

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Speaker 1: on that Reese joke going deep wasn't good enough. Cave

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Speaker 1: diving is diving with an overhead environment, so that separates

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Speaker 1: it from open water environment. Like if if he goes

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Speaker 1: and panic and swim straight up, you're gonna bonk your head. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might have gone to the under foot um there

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Speaker 1: and you have no direct vertical access to open air

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Speaker 1: surface or light. Yeah, this is extremely important. Basically a

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Speaker 1: horror movie, a nightmare, a living nightmare that you're doing

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Speaker 1: on purpose that you've paid it a lot of money

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Speaker 1: to equip yourself for. Um. The light thing is a

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Speaker 1: really big one too. Like, here's the thing. It's really

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Speaker 1: easy because you're thinking that this is cave diving and

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Speaker 1: the word caves in there and we're talking about caves,

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Speaker 1: but it's scuba diving really, but it's scuba diving inside

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Speaker 1: a cave. This is a really important thing to not

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Speaker 1: lose sight of. It's a cave. It's deep in the

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Speaker 1: bowels of the earth, filled with water. Yes there are

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Speaker 1: there's no light. There's only light is the light that

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Speaker 1: you have and you're moving through it underwater. This is

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Speaker 1: cave diving. I'm in awe of people who do this

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Speaker 1: and I could watch videos of it all day long. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very cool to see. Um, it's like scuba plus

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Speaker 1: as far as the creep factor goes. A read one

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Speaker 1: article about a guy who is a cave diving researcher

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Speaker 1: and as we'll see. You know, there's scientific discoveries that

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Speaker 1: have been made in these caves because just like the

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Speaker 1: the deep dry caves, the things that live in there

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Speaker 1: are remarkable. Um. And this guy was sixty nine years

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Speaker 1: old and still going strong and said his family, you know,

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Speaker 1: always worries about him, but he super experience, knows what

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Speaker 1: he's doing. But it's still fraught with danger. I do

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Speaker 1: have a few death stats if you want. I read

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Speaker 1: a scientific presentation called thirty years of American cave Diving

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Speaker 1: Fatalities two thousand fifteen. You got the same one. Huh.

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Speaker 1: This is by the Divers Alert Network. A hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty one divers had died over that. Uh what how

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Speaker 1: long was that two thirty year period? Uh? Sixty seven

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Speaker 1: of them were trained, eighty seven were untrained, which is crazy, Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what they're doing down there. To begin

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Speaker 1: with a fool, yeah if you just take up cave

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Speaker 1: diving for the first time, but like, yeah, exactly, because

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Speaker 1: sixty seven trained cave divers pair wished Yeah, and how chuck?

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Speaker 1: How what was the vast majority? Most common cause was

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Speaker 1: aphixia due to drowning preceded by running out of breathing gas,

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Speaker 1: usually after getting lost because of a loss of visibility

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Speaker 1: caused by suspended silt. And that's where most of these

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Speaker 1: are in Florida. And that's where I learned about the

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Speaker 1: silt out. Also from the article you sent about the

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Speaker 1: UM the cave rescue in Thailand in Thailand, which was

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Speaker 1: apparently very silty. And a silt out is when so

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Speaker 1: much silt gets kicked up that it just blacks out

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Speaker 1: even with your light source. Yeah, the guy that was

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Speaker 1: in that I think it was an article in Atlantic

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Speaker 1: UM with the guy knew his name, Robert Layard. I

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Speaker 1: think he's a cave diving expert, and he said, you

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Speaker 1: can put your light up to your mask and you

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Speaker 1: can kind of see your light, but that's it. And

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Speaker 1: you're in a cave, so you don't know where to go.

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Speaker 1: Even feeling your way around is not going to help you. UM.

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Speaker 1: And the problem with the silt out is they can

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Speaker 1: last for so along in a bad a bad case

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Speaker 1: of a silt out that you will run out of

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Speaker 1: air before the silt settles enough for you to see through.

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Speaker 1: So it's a bad jam. Well, and then this that

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Speaker 1: you probably read the same interviews, but there's a panic

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Speaker 1: is what this guy said is what usually happens, even

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Speaker 1: with an experienced diver, because there's no escape, there's no

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Speaker 1: quick way out, and things tend to have a domino effect.

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Speaker 1: So if you're in a silt out, like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's you try and stay as still as possible, and

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Speaker 1: it's still maybe not gonna work. You're getting nervous, just

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Speaker 1: kind of fidgety, now that you've pointed out it's panic

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Speaker 1: inducing just to think about it, Like you have to

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Speaker 1: remain perfectly still in the total darkness, and that might

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Speaker 1: not even be good enough to let that silt stuttle settle.

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Speaker 1: I I saw um and even a bigger estimate of

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Speaker 1: the number of deaths from cave diving from the National

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Speaker 1: Speleological Societies Cave Diving Section. They estimated more than four

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Speaker 1: hundred deaths in the history of cave diving. But they

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Speaker 1: said in the world was it just America? Okay? They

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Speaker 1: placed a lot of them towards the beginning of cave diving,

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Speaker 1: which took which started in the fifties or sixties. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I wonder what's in their stage, which is crazy, because

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Speaker 1: scuba diving started in about the fifties, so within a

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Speaker 1: little while of somebody inventing scuba diving. Some people were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let's go into caves with this stuff. And they started dying,

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Speaker 1: and so they pointed out like these people didn't give

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Speaker 1: their lives in vain. Each death was a lesson learned

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Speaker 1: for everyone else who who um, you know, was yet

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Speaker 1: to come. But a lot of people died early on,

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Speaker 1: and it's gotten much. They are far fewer deaths from

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Speaker 1: cave diving. But it's like you said, they're they're typically

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Speaker 1: are cave diving experts who are dying because they're pushing

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Speaker 1: themselves further and further. If you have you know, no

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Speaker 1: one's cave dive before. Every cave you dive into is

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Speaker 1: a new exploration, and this is a huge driver for

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Speaker 1: people who cave dive. This is why they do it.

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Speaker 1: They're seeing something that no other human on Earth in

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Speaker 1: most cases, has ever seen in the history of humanity.

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Speaker 1: They're the first human to be in this place. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's lots of stuff to discover for when humans were there,

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Speaker 1: but now it's flooded. Um, there's there's just a lot

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Speaker 1: of discovery. But as it's been going on for decades now,

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Speaker 1: every time somebody discovers a new thing. That's one thing

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Speaker 1: that that is not left to be discovered by everybody else.

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Speaker 1: So they're pushing themselves further and further. When you cave dive,

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Speaker 1: you might be a hundred feet under sea level, but

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Speaker 1: you might be scuba diving for miles down through a

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Speaker 1: cave system. Not downward necessarily, but horizontal miles um. You know,

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Speaker 1: round trip for this this cave dive, which is nuts,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's what they do. I can't remember where

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Speaker 1: I was going with that. I started to get panicked again.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen Once upon the Time in Hollywood? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know the scene with Brad Pitt on the boat

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Speaker 1: in his in that sixty scuba gear. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: so cool looking. Before we say this, I come from

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Speaker 1: the future to warn us in the past that we

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Speaker 1: should add spoiler alert here. That was that. Uh it's

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Speaker 1: like when they used to call him skin divers. Yes,

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Speaker 1: what do you think he killed his wife? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's what you were led to believe. Whether

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Speaker 1: I felt like it was up in the air well

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh. Also could have been an accident

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Speaker 1: because he was clearly had that spear gun resting on

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Speaker 1: his knee pointing at her right. Um. Yeah, the question

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Speaker 1: is did his neurons fire and make his finger move? Right? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we took care of the spoiler that was like

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Speaker 1: five minutes ago, I know. And now we're back to

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Speaker 1: cave diving and we should talk a little bit about equipment. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This A lot of this came from one of our

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Speaker 1: old House Stuff Works colleagues from the website orld, Buddy

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Speaker 1: John Fuller, who looks like mc es like. He's been

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Speaker 1: mentioned twice that he's the tie that binds the Estre

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Speaker 1: episode and the cave diving episode. Yeah, and some of

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Speaker 1: this equipment thing isn't the most exciting stuff in the world,

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Speaker 1: but we should talk about it anyway. I found it

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Speaker 1: frankly arousing. You got your mask, uh, and this is

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Speaker 1: something I didn't now. Um. They use sort of simple

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Speaker 1: black masks because it absorbs light. Yeah, um, which makes sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you're using your own light source, so it can

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Speaker 1: get pretty bright. I saw a flashlight from underwater kinetics.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's like fifteen thousand lumens some ridiculous amount of lumens.

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Speaker 1: Lots of lumens, a lot of lumens um And yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you have that stuff bouncing all over the place.

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Speaker 1: You don't want your light, your your you know, gold glitter,

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Speaker 1: diamond dusted mask like reflecting it in your eyes and

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Speaker 1: cuts down in visibility. But I take issue with Fuller

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Speaker 1: saying that they favorite simple masks, because these guys do

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Speaker 1: like the full face like, yeah, be a mask. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not the bread pitt skin diver sixties mask, which I loved. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think some of them might, but I

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Speaker 1: also saw plenty of them. Yeah, have like you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of what they call it, but

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Speaker 1: just a really cool full face mask. Yeah. It looks

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Speaker 1: like something that you could dive in a cave in

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Speaker 1: or go to outer space in. Basically. Yeah. So then

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Speaker 1: you've got your fins again, black rubber fins. But the

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Speaker 1: difference here and uh that I gather from this in

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Speaker 1: open water because you don't want those super long, super

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Speaker 1: bindy fins because you're trying to not kick up silt,

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Speaker 1: so you want those shorter, stiffer fins. Uh. And when

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Speaker 1: you're down there swimming around, you're using little, short controlled kicks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no big sweeping leg movements. No, it's a huge, huge

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Speaker 1: difference between cave diving and open water diving. The water diving,

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Speaker 1: your legs are extended out behind and you're fluttering those

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Speaker 1: um those fins up and down, and you're propelling yourself forward.

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Speaker 1: In a in cave diving, your bent your legs are

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Speaker 1: bent at the knees, so your feet are up slightly

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Speaker 1: above you, and mostly you're making frog kicks, which are

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Speaker 1: all in the ankle, and you're just kind of waddling

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Speaker 1: yourself along with these little kicks. You see what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: For twelve years, you've been doing little physical gestures of

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Speaker 1: me like anyone else in the world could see them. Well,

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Speaker 1: who am I talking to you? But you know that's

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Speaker 1: the whole point. So the frog look chuck like, this

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Speaker 1: is what they do, little frog kicks. But in doing

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Speaker 1: that that you cut down on the potential of um

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Speaker 1: coming in contact with the rest of the Cave's a

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Speaker 1: couple of reasons why you want to do that. One,

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Speaker 1: you want to preserve the cave. If you break off

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Speaker 1: a stalactite stalactite coming from the ceiling um, that's a

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Speaker 1: that's nature's work that you just messed with. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to do that, bro. And then secondly, a lot

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Speaker 1: of caves pretty much all of them have that silt

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Speaker 1: sediment on the bottom. That's your enemy. If you kick

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Speaker 1: it up, you've got a silt out. So you you

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Speaker 1: want to really be careful what kind of um movement

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Speaker 1: you're making with your fins, and then just how big

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Speaker 1: your fins are and how flexible they are, and then

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Speaker 1: one other thing about that too. You also want to

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Speaker 1: maintain basically perfect buoyancy where you're completely neutrally buoyant relative

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Speaker 1: to the top and the bottom of the cave. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What do they call the movement? Dragon float? Pulling glide?

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Speaker 1: Pulling glide float? Yeah, thing you do when you recover

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Speaker 1: a body. Well, a lot of this is body recovery,

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Speaker 1: very sadly, um, well, not a lot of it, but

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Speaker 1: part of search and rescue can very much involve going

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Speaker 1: deep and getting very swollen, water logged bodies. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you pull yourself along with your hand, like in a

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Speaker 1: little groove by the rock and then just let yourself glide.

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Speaker 1: It seems very relaxing considering you're doing the most horrifying

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Speaker 1: thing on the planet. Yeah, so you might do that

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Speaker 1: even instead of kicking, depending on where the space is,

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Speaker 1: how tight it is that kind of thing. Also, it

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Speaker 1: depends on how um uh solid the surroundings are, like

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Speaker 1: you or anything like that. Um. And then also apparently

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Speaker 1: you only do that when you have a current. There's

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Speaker 1: one thing we should say, there's two kinds of cave diving,

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Speaker 1: spring diving and sump diving. And in spring diving that's

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Speaker 1: where you see like the pictures in like National Geographic

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Speaker 1: magazine where it's just this beautiful cave and there's just

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Speaker 1: two people in scuba gear floating in the middle of it.

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Speaker 1: That's a spring fed cave where you've got water moving

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Speaker 1: through it keeping it very clear because there's no way

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Speaker 1: for sediment to settle because the currents moving to to

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Speaker 1: um quickly and you use that current to pull and glide.

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Speaker 1: That looks like something has a little bit more appeal, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean it's just as dangerous as anything else.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, most of the people who die cave

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Speaker 1: diving die in Florida, and that's what they're doing, is

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Speaker 1: diving in those springs. That is true, uh. And the

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Speaker 1: other time the sump kind those are a little more

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Speaker 1: scary to me. That's a cave system where if you

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Speaker 1: imagine like kind of like a zigzag like Charlie Brown's shirt. Say,

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Speaker 1: that's the cave system. Inside of the cave, half of

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Speaker 1: the bottom half is covered with water that you have

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Speaker 1: to scuba through, but you also have to climb over

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Speaker 1: through dry parts in air and then get down to

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Speaker 1: the to the water again. That's the sump kind of

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Speaker 1: that's super sentiment and you really got to know what

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Speaker 1: you're doing there. That's the most dangerous kind by far. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You have your suit that you're wearing, and you can

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Speaker 1: wear a wet suit, standard wet suit or a dry suit.

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Speaker 1: These are not cheap. They cost, you know, several thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars for a good one. All this equipment is not cheap. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So it's not the kind of thing that you just

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Speaker 1: sort of decided to try out, right, So you have

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Speaker 1: to be wealthy and totally out of your mind to

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Speaker 1: cave die. Uh. Dry suits are sealed off, so you know,

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Speaker 1: if you've ever put on a wet suit, part of

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Speaker 1: the process is getting in that cold water and letting

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Speaker 1: it fill up your wet suit, which will warm it up.

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00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,120
Speaker 1: That's the idea is that water warms. But that process

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Speaker 1: isn't fun getting in and out of a wet suit

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Speaker 1: isn't fun neither, to be honest, and it's not that

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Speaker 1: flouttering nous. You know. We had to wear them when

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Speaker 1: we Scooba dip with the whales, the whale sharks. It

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Speaker 1: seems like a hundred years ago. It was easily a

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Speaker 1: hundred years ago. The dry suits seal off that water,

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Speaker 1: so you are dry. That's why they call it a

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Speaker 1: dry suit. Your body doesn't get wet um. And the

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Speaker 1: cool thing here is that you can layer up some clothing, uh,

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Speaker 1: and then put on this suit because you can stay warmer.

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Speaker 1: It's much more pleasant imagining silkies or something. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love the silkies. Uh. And then John makes a good point.

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Speaker 1: You want to you want to have like extras of

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Speaker 1: just about everything. Like you don't go down there with

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Speaker 1: a flashlight. I'd have eight flashlights strapped to every single

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Speaker 1: limb on my body. Like I'm sure they carry like

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Speaker 1: an extra I would have a bunch of extra light. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you get your little knife if you get snagged, you

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Speaker 1: cut things. I would have nine knives, eight flashlights. Well,

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Speaker 1: you do want a redundant amount of stuff, like you

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00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: were saying, like you just because if something goes wrong

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00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,959
Speaker 1: down there, you are toast unless you can slowly and

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Speaker 1: deliberately get yourself back to the surface of the ocean.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's so yeah. But the other thing you

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Speaker 1: want to do too is you're in very cramp quarters here,

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Speaker 1: so everything has to be strapped down pretty closely to

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Speaker 1: your body or in like a pocket, because you can't

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Speaker 1: have any stuff hanging down because you'll get tangled up.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get tangled up down there. I

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Speaker 1: know this is kind of amateur hour stuff because we're

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Speaker 1: not a good breaking point, but we should probably take

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Speaker 1: an ab break right here. No, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: great time, and we'll talk about how you breathe down

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Speaker 1: there right after this. I sk asle sk as. You shouldn't. Sorry, everyone,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. So you need to breathe down there.

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Speaker 1: Everyone has seen a scuba tank, um, but it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. It's quite a bit different in fact

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Speaker 1: than open water diving. UM. You're going to need uh

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Speaker 1: different things to go that deep, different kinds of air mixtures, uh.

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Speaker 1: And there are a few different kinds that you can use.

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Speaker 1: But we should probably talk a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: bins and what happens to your body. I know we

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Speaker 1: covered the bens in uh the which one was it?

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Speaker 1: The what was the old time diving suit called diving bell?

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00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: Was a diving bell? I think we cover the bends.

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00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 1: We must have, probably so, yeah, because we've never done

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Speaker 1: a scuba episode. So John from his original houseof Works

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00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: article makes a very great point about pressure and talks

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00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: about soda bottles and obviously if you shake up a

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00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: soda bottle and then open it really quick, is going

388
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: to go everywhere. Or if you're Josh and you've never

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00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 1: in your life apparently opened a tonic bottle soda, I

390
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: thought it was tonic, was probably both? Really Yeah, you

391
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: got to open those very very slowly every time, no

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Speaker 1: matter if it's shaken or not. I don't think any

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00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 1: of those are my fault. But um like every backstage

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00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: we've ever been to has tonic and soda on the floor,

395
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: it would there. I'm cursed with that. But if you

396
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: do shake up a soda bottle in the difference between

397
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: opening it quickly and very very slowly is can be

398
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: related to how the human body reacts under the pressure

399
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: of that water. Yeah, so in this case, when you're

400
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: scuba diving, opening the cap is analogous to slowly making

401
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: your way back up to the surface at a graduated

402
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: set of time. They're both decompression basically, is what it is.

403
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: And so you could have rapid decompression where your soda

404
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: goes everywhere, or your blood vessels burst, or you can

405
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: follow these timetables to um to get the nitrogen bubbles

406
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: out of your blood. And like you're saying, that's a

407
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: big it's a big problem with scuba diving, especially if

408
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: you're down below a hundred feet UM for an extended

409
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: period of time, the nitrogen um can really build up

410
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: in your blood, which can give you the bends. You

411
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: can also suffer from nitrogen narcosis, which is bad news

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00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: where you apparently feel like you're drunk because of your

413
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: because you're intoxicated on nitrogen. Yeah, the same thing can

414
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: happen with oxygen. Yeah, um, it's different, but you can

415
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: have oxygen what's it called oxygen toxicity? Right, So there's

416
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: like if you're just doing like a dive or whatever

417
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: and it's like thirty feet of water and you're down

418
00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: for like a half an hour or something like that,

419
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: you're just breathing compressed air like they just took air

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00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: out of the air and put it into a tank,

421
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 1: and that's what you're breathing, and you're fine, exactly. So

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00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: if you're down for a while and you have this

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00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: problem with too much oxygen or too much nitrogen, they

424
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: started to get kind of crafty with the stuff that

425
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: they put into the tanks. There's something called nitrox which

426
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: deals with um the problem of nitrogen arcsis by removing

427
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: a certain amount of the nitrogen and replacing it with oxygen,

428
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: so with compressed air, with regular air that we breathe

429
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 1: here at sea level. UM it's something like seventy eight

430
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: percent nitrogen. Yes, And like Noyen, is that right? I

431
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: had them backwards oxygen seventy eight percent nitrogen. In nitrox,

432
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: you have something like thirty six percent oxygen and the

433
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: rest nitrogen. So because you have far less nitrogen there,

434
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: you are susceptible to the bends in nitrogen arc COSI

435
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: is less susceptible. Then you would be breathing compressed air,

436
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: so you can go down further and you can stay

437
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: down longer. But the problem is, like you were saying,

438
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: that oxygen toxicity can be an issue too, So they've

439
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: come up with you. Even other stuff. Yeah, you can

440
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: breathe helium, and there's something called helios seventy helium oxygen.

441
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: The weakness here is or I guess the downside is

442
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 1: that you lose body heat six times faster than with

443
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: compressed air nitrox. So then you've got to think about

444
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: Hypothermias's cold down there, it is cold. And then there's

445
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: one called trimex, which is oxygen, nitrogen and helium, and

446
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: apparently this is what you use for the deepest dives. Yes,

447
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: And it's like all of these things have their pluses

448
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: and their minuses. There is no perfect gas, but people

449
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: have figured out things like um like if you want

450
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: to use helios um, you can stay down longer. You're

451
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: not gonna get nitrogen arcosis in your case of the

452
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: bends is probably you're less susceptible to the bends because

453
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: the nitrogen is not present. But you also can't breathe

454
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: that up closer to the surface. There's not enough oxygen

455
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: in it, so you have to carry an extra tank

456
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: of oxygen or mixed air to to switch to as

457
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 1: you get closer to the surface. That there's like a

458
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: lot of different clever things you can do to make

459
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: it safer for you to stay down longer and go

460
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: further into a cave system when you're diving in it. Yeah,

461
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: and the rule of thumb is they go by the

462
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: rule of thirds, which I saw it described a little

463
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 1: bit differently than the House of Works article describes it.

464
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: The way I saw it was is you want to

465
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: make sure you always have two thirds of your tank

466
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: left when you're at your deepest part of the dive. Yeah.

467
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: I think that's what Fuller's thought. Maybe he just said

468
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: it in the way that sounded a little backwards, but yeah,

469
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: that's that's the rule though, is if you know you're

470
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: going to go to us the very deepest spot you're

471
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: going to, you want to only use one third of

472
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: your oxygen of your tank mixture to get that far,

473
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: because sometimes it can take longer to get get out

474
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: than it did to get in, and you want to

475
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: be back on the surface with a third left in

476
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: your tank basically right. Plus don't forget you're also going

477
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: to have to slowly unscrew the cap on the soda bottle.

478
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: It takes time, and therefore it takes some of your air,

479
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: your gas, and your tank to um to do the

480
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: decompression schedule and slowly work your way up to keep

481
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: those nitrogen bubbles from um explosively producing in your blood.

482
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: How do those tables work? Do you have no idea?

483
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: Do you just learn this stuff? You have it like

484
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: on your paper? Yeah, I mean obviously not just regularly.

485
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: It's laminated. It's laminated, it's basically but you're looking in Yeah,

486
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure if you're an experienced diver you know those

487
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: things back and forth. But because there's such a thing

488
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: as nitrogen arcosis or hydrogen, you can breathe hydrogen, but

489
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: apparently it has a trippy effect on you too. You

490
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: would want to be able to have something to look

491
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: at so you're not just relying on your brain. But

492
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: they haven't printed out. Yeah, So the idea is like

493
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: how much leeway is it? Like you can't go like

494
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: don't go ten feet higher or you're in big trouble,

495
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: Like it can't be it's not down right, I don't

496
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: think it's that, although I suspect that as we advance,

497
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: like we'll have it down to the inch and like

498
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: by different kinds of people in genetics and stuff like that,

499
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: But right now it is I think it isn't graduated

500
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: in ten ft or maybe ten meters because that's an atmosphere,

501
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: but it says stay at this depth for this amount

502
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: of time before moving up ten ms to hang out

503
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: for another minute, So I think it's longer than that. Yeah,

504
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: And what you're doing is you're allowing the nitrogen that's

505
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: dissolved in your blood to turn back into gas, go

506
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: to your lungs and then be expiated to be breathed

507
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: out by you slowly. That's what you're doing. And so

508
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: they figured out that after say ten minutes at thirty meters,

509
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: you have removed enough of that blood or that nitrogen

510
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: from your blood that you can safely move up to

511
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: the next ten meters above and you're neutral. At this point.

512
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: You're just hanging out, hanging up, sinking and you're not

513
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: rising unless you try to. Know, you have a buoyancy

514
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: vest that is is keeping you neutral. Yeah, you're just

515
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: hanging out. Yeah, you don't want to rise now if

516
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: you're in big trouble and like you're out of air,

517
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: you want to make your way to the surface and

518
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: just take pressure, you know pressure luck like bens be darned, right,

519
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: Like I'm either going to drown or have the bends

520
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: and maybe the bens won't kill me, but drowning will

521
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: definitely kill me. Even though we learned the drowning is

522
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: not necessarily what you think it is. Um, the that's

523
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: but if you aren't in any trouble, you want to

524
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: go through the decompression schedule, got it? Yeah? I mean,

525
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: I just I knew about this stuff, but I've never

526
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: really kind of thought about exactly how that worked. I

527
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: wonder if we do need to do a Scooba episode now,

528
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not. I mean, what are you doing while

529
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: you're waiting around? You're just waiting around looking at the fish,

530
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: looking at fish. If you're with you should be with

531
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: a buddy. It's tough to communicate unless you have radio, right,

532
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: and in which case, if you do have radio, you're

533
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: probably listening to XM or something like that instead. But

534
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: you can communicate with hand signals or US. Sure, yeah,

535
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: you could listen to stuff you should know. It would

536
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: be nice. It's a great idea. So let's go back

537
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: to traveling. We talked about the grab and pull, the

538
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: pulling glide, grabbing float. Uh, you can also have one

539
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: of those, and this is what I would totally have

540
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: one of those cool little DPVS Driver Propulsion vehicle. It's

541
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: the little torpedo looking. It's sort of like a boat

542
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: propeller that's enclosed and it just pulls you along. You

543
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: just hang onto it and it drags you behind it. Yeah.

544
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: I always thought those were really cool. Yeah, they are cool.

545
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: They're kind of James BONDI yea very much. But that's

546
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: gonna save you from breathing uh more, because you're exerting yourself.

547
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 1: It's gonna save you from just exerting. You know, you're

548
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: not gonna be as tired. I mean, think about it,

549
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: diving for miles under the Earth's surface, like for miles along.

550
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: Even though you're floating, you're still working. Yeah, yeah, that

551
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: little kick your your ankles are going to get tired

552
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: after a while, your little ankles. Yeah, and that would

553
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: help a lot. But I would imagine you really want

554
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: to practice on that thing, because if it got away

555
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: from you, it's gonna pull you into like a cave

556
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: wall or something like that. You're in trouble, kick up

557
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: that salt. I would think that little propeller will kick

558
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: up salt. I guess if you're not on the bottom,

559
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: I think you keep it away from the bottom. All right,

560
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: I think we should take another break and we'll talk

561
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: about what I think is one of the cooler parts

562
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: about this whole thing. Are these guidelines right for this

563
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: spoiler alert that we shouldn't know. I would skis watch

564
00:31:52,160 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: sk but you should knows. All right, you're underwater, you're

565
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: hundred feet into a cave. It's pitch dark. You've got

566
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: your little flashlight, but you need a little trail of

567
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: bread crumbs, right, yea more than that. You can get

568
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: disoriented down there, even if you're super experienced. So you

569
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: need something that says go this way, uh to to

570
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: live right, So you have guidelines, like not written guidelines, no, no,

571
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: an actual literal guideline right. Um. And they were laid however,

572
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: many years before by people who originally explored the cave,

573
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: and they the yellow lines or gold lines I'm sorry,

574
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: are yellowish and color and they use those as like

575
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: the main line through the main parts of the cave. Yeah,

576
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: and it's like a little thinner than a rope, but

577
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: it's basically a nylon string that is throughout the main tunnels.

578
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: Like you said, these little side tunnels are gonna have

579
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: white lines if you branch off and you know, you know,

580
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: you look at the ler and you know where you

581
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: are basically in a side tunnel or the main channel,

582
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: and they end within about five to ten feet of

583
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: the mainline. Um. That mainline too, doesn't go right to

584
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: the top of the entrance, because apparently that is an

585
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: invitation for dumb dumbs to say, like, hey, look, let

586
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 1: me see where that leads, right, so they don't even

587
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: put them on the surface, no fet from the entrance.

588
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: Like you said, Yeah, I saw a really interesting video

589
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: from the nineties called a Deceptively Easy Way to Die

590
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: And it's like blood on the asphalt, but for cave diving,

591
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: it's like an instructional video with recreations and crazy camera

592
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: shaking like oh it's out of control. Yeah. Um. And

593
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: the guy it's from the the cave Diving chapter of

594
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: the National Splunking Society. Um, and like it really like

595
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: it is meant to scare you. The guy even says like,

596
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: am I scaring you a little bit? Good? It's just

597
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: like like like a car safety video, but into with

598
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: the song cave diving don't do it right? He? Um?

599
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: Is that a Heather's reference? I think? So? Okay? Um,

600
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: But he was saying this guy who was astounding, it

601
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 1: was almost like he was a ventrila Chris. He barely

602
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: moved his mouth and words were coming out, you gotta

603
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: go watch this um. But he was saying, not only

604
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: do they not put um like the lines near the

605
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: mouths of caves to tempt people. They say, if you're

606
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: not an experienced cave diver going on a cave dive,

607
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: but you're going to be diving somewhere in the area

608
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: of a cave, don't even take a light with you,

609
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: just to keep yourself from being tempted, from being like, oh,

610
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: I got a light, let me go down in this.

611
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: If you don't have a light, even the most foolish

612
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: among us probably would not go into a cave. But

613
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: if you do have a light, you might try it.

614
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: Even if it's not experience that makes sense, But you're

615
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: still a dumb dumber to do exactly. Uh. They do

616
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: have entry lines though, and that is if you go

617
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: to it explore in a cave. It's it's a temporary

618
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: line that you do and you this is the one

619
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: that you do tie to a big rock on the

620
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 1: surface and then you take that to the main line

621
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: that's fifty two feet inside and then everything's all connected.

622
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: Because John makes a great point, you've got to be

623
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: able to if in the worst case scenario, if it's

624
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: dark down there, pull yourself along this line, give the

625
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: okay sign to your buddy, um, and you've got to

626
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: maybe do this in total darkness with your eyes closed,

627
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: so your flashlights off, where it's silty silt out. Yeah,

628
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 1: that's scary stuff. I have the impression that you're kind

629
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: of supposed to be hanging on to this guideline basically

630
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: all the time, really, yeah, or like pinches away from

631
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: it at all times. I would want it within grabbing

632
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: distance for sure. Did you read up about the dwarf markers?

633
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: I predicted that the dwarf markers existed, because yeah, before

634
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: I got to that part, I was like, surely they

635
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: have like an arrow. Yeah, it's it's like a plastic

636
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: basically arrow on the line saying this way not that way. Well, yeah,

637
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: because I mean, if you're in a cave system and

638
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: you turn around, you were like, wait a minute, that

639
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: doesn't look anything like what I thought I just came through.

640
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: Talk about panic. Luckily you have the guideline. Well, which

641
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: way is the guideline? Leading you. So that's what these

642
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: dwarf markers are, their arrows pointing the way to the

643
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: mouth of the cave, the way out. Basically, did you

644
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: see the history of the Dorf marker, Because immediate it

645
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: was like, why is it called a Dorf marker? It

646
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: was just such a weird name. And apparently I got

647
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: this from a brief history of the cave diving line

648
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: arrow by Alexander Cofield Fief And Uh, there was a

649
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: death in nine at Peacock Springs in Florida where pre

650
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: doorf marker, and I guess this person died from the

651
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: situation you just explained, like went deeper into the cave

652
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: instead of on the land. I know. Uh. And a

653
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: man named Lewis Holzendorf invented this thing out of duct tape.

654
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: So he made these duct tape arrows and they called

655
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: him dwarf markers. But because they were Dorf I'm sorry,

656
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: because they were tape and all dwarfed up, they would

657
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: deteriorate or fold up and not work over time. So

658
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: later on flash forward, a man named Forest Wilson invents

659
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: these modern dwarf markers, and one of the stipulations he

660
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: was like, we gotta call him dwarf markers still, which

661
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: is very cool. But these are finally made out of plastic.

662
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: It's a plastic triangle you folded over the line and

663
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: snap it shut, basically. So thanks to Forest Wilson and

664
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: Lewis Holsendorf, the worst case scenario is I'm getting out

665
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: of here and you're just going deeper and will never happen.

666
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: Forest Wilson told everybody we go out and call him

667
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: dwarf markers, and they're like after a Holsendorf. He's like,

668
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: who oh man, that's a good dumb joke, a lot

669
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: of set up to I just used up a lot

670
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: of our air, all right, So you've got these dwarf markers,

671
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 1: they're telling you where to go. You're diving if it's

672
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: just a regular sort of and I was about to

673
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 1: call it a recreational dive, but technically it's a technical dive.

674
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: But if you're just out there having a good time,

675
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: you're probably down there for about an hour or so

676
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: at least. But if you're really like doing scientific investigation

677
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: or inquiry, or if you're after a body, then you

678
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: can be down there for hours and hours doing your thing, right, So, um,

679
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: Some of these extraordinarily long cave dives can last into

680
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: the double digits of hours, and they'll have tanks placed

681
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: along the path. Basically who where tanks? Maybe? All right,

682
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: the ghost of Dorff himself is handing these out. Um,

683
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's dead or not yet. Tim Conway,

684
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: no Lossdorf. Yeah, I don't think he's with this, Okay, Yeah,

685
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: so he's this friendly patron spirit who hands out tanks.

686
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: I think, although who knows, he may still be around. Well,

687
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: why did you say that you didn't think he was.

688
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: I got the idea because someone else developed it and

689
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: named it after him, that it was in memorium. I

690
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: might have been wrong. No, it's like it's a good point.

691
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: At any rate, they'll leave tanks along the way so

692
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: you can be like, well, here's my new fresh tank.

693
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: It's pretty pretty amazing. But yeah, these the cave dives

694
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: can last a very very long time. And like you're saying,

695
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: when they're doing this stuff, there probably are being employed

696
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: by maybe the National Geographic Society, a museum, uh, some university,

697
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: and they're exploring the geology of these caves that no

698
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: one has ever seen before. They're also conducting underwater archaeology,

699
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: which is a huge new aspect for cave diving because

700
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: what they figured out is we've lost a lot of

701
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: human settlement um archaeology when the sea levels rose after

702
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, eleven thousand years ago and people were running

703
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: around in America on the coast more than we realize.

704
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: And we're starting to figure that out because of this

705
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: cave diving archaeology that's become a thing. Yeah. The uh,

706
00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: the largest as in longest not deepest um underwater cave

707
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: is in Tuloom on the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico, and they,

708
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: I think it was a few years ago, discovered that

709
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: two flooded caves actually connected, making it the longest. It's

710
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifteen miles. If these things, you know,

711
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: if you go from end to end and and there

712
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: are um tons and tons of Mayan like extinct animal

713
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: stuff and Mayan artifacts like you were talking about, it

714
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: just the waters rose and the stuff just got sucked in. Yeah.

715
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: They found the oldest mostly in tech skeleton in North

716
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: America in one of those caves, the Hoyo Negro h

717
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: It was a woman named Nea and a I A

718
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: I believe, Well that's what they named her, and um,

719
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: she was from something like a fourteen thousand, five hundred

720
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: years ago. Wow, which is way older than the Clovis people.

721
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: Can you imagine coming upon that it would be pretty neat. Yeah. Yeah,

722
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: but this White cave divers too. Yeah. Yeah, it's one

723
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: of the things. The deepest is pretty new as far

724
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: as findings go. Well, the deepest in America is Phantom

725
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: Springs Cave in Texas, which is chump change at four

726
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two ft. The deepest now it passed

727
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 1: Italy's Pozzo del Meto. Um. It is in the Czech

728
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: Republic on Pazzo demorros uber to this one. The Ranika

729
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 1: propost is deep. It's amazing. And I don't think they've

730
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: gone to the bottom. I think they go as far

731
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: as they can go, and then I think they drop

732
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: a line and measure from there right exactly. Yeah, that's

733
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: and apparently dating GPS doesn't work at all in these

734
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: cave systems. It's just impenetrable on your own. Um, so

735
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: they have to tie off ten ft increments on rope

736
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: and just lower it down. That's how they figured out.

737
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: The one in the Czech Republic and this is a

738
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: big team. This isn't just like alright, we got our

739
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: sy system, right. It's like you've got a lot of

740
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: people involved in something like this, right, for safety obviously, yeah,

741
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 1: and for some fellowship and for fun. Yeah. The reception

742
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: afterward is quite nice. Right, So how do you do this?

743
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: How do you get certified? Oh? Well, um, there's a

744
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: lot of steps you want to take. You want to

745
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: become a basically a professional open water diver first, with

746
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: years and years of experience. Yeah, this one guy said

747
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: at least fifty dives, yeah, before you even think about

748
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 1: a cave right, um. And then after that you want

749
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: to start training for cavern diving. You want to do

750
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: that for a couple of years and then right, and

751
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: then you start doing cave diving. And one of the

752
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: ways they didn't think about this, but it makes sense.

753
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: One of the ways you train for cave diving is

754
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: doing night diving, taking a night diving course. Yeah, because

755
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: there's no yeah, there's no sunlight. There are probably night

756
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: diving in caverns or something like that. That's probably kind

757
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: of creepy too. Yeah, but once you are a certified

758
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: cave diver, you are part of basically the top one

759
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: percent of divers in the world. There's this. I saw

760
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: an estimate of seventy five professional in the world. Yeah. Um,

761
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: so you're part of a very elite group who are

762
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: actually exploring, like pushing the limits of human exploration on

763
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: Earth right now. Yeah. And I saw the one guy

764
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: who was who had um. I think it was a

765
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: guy who helped out with the rescuing Thailand, which we

766
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: got to talk about. Yeah. I mean he was saying,

767
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: you know, this stuff is tough to do because you

768
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: think you just go in and retrieve a body, but

769
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: it's a crime scene first of all, so you can't

770
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: photograph it. So you have to go down there and

771
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: first look around and make as many mental notes as

772
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: you can to recreate this for an artist perhaps, or

773
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: for at least note taking. And uh, he said, it's

774
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: really tough emotionally, um, and physically to get the body out.

775
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: It's not you gotta be made of tough stuff exactly.

776
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: That's it. You didn't have anything else on it. Well,

777
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the Thai cave rescue. That's

778
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: what we're going on. But the thing is, there weren't

779
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: anybody's There was one former Thie seal Navy seal who died,

780
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: and because he died, the Thai Navy realized, we don't

781
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: have any professional cave divers and stuff. We need to

782
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: make this part of our formal training. So now they

783
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: do have that. Yeah, But in two thousand and eighteen,

784
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: in the summer, you know, the whole world was watching

785
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 1: because these these twelve soccer players and their coach were

786
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: hiking along in a cave system that got flooded from

787
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: a monsoon and they were trapped in what became a

788
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: some cave. And um, just from everything we learned about

789
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 1: cave diving, the idea that they managed to get all

790
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: twelve of the soccer players and their coach out to

791
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: safety in one of the most treacherous types of caves

792
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: you can dive and no one died except for this

793
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: one diver is astounding. Man. Yeah, and the one guy

794
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: was talking about just how silty was down there, and

795
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: uh so you're trying to rescue these people with his

796
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: minimal movement as possible, so you're not getting a silt

797
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: out conditions. I just where's that movie? It's got to

798
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: be coming? Sure? Yeah, yeah, isn't you got anything else? Uh?

799
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackman lead diver. Why not? I got nothing else?

800
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess this last part about regulations is

801
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 1: it's not super highly regulated. You're sort of um dealing

802
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: with the local authorities and it sounds like uh like

803
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: hazardous or treacherous hiking. You gotta you gotta check in

804
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: with an office and usually say this is what I'm doing,

805
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: this is where when I'm going in and when I'm

806
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: coming out, And you gotta sign that little piece of

807
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: paper when you return, otherwise they're gonna come looking for you. Yeah.

808
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: But there's also places where you like you can cave

809
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: dive all you want, where you just pay a fee.

810
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: They just are like, go with God, do your thing.

811
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,439
Speaker 1: There's this flooded mine I've talked about before. I don't remember.

812
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: It must have been the Abandoned Minds episode in Bond Tear, Missouri.

813
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: It's just this a flooded nineteenth century mine like Vogue

814
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: could clear water a hundred foot visibility and you just

815
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: swim around the mine. Hey, there's Rambo, But was he

816
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: in the mine? Yeah? He hit out in the mind

817
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: in First Blood. I'll bet we had the same conversation

818
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: the Abandoned Minds episode, because I don't recall it. Are

819
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: you got anything else? Nope? Well, if you want to

820
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: know more about abandoned minds almost said if you wanted

821
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: more about cave diving, read about it, probably don't do it. Uh.

822
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: And since I said that it's time for listening, oh,

823
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: you can read about on how stuff forks even right?

824
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: And since I said that it's time for listener, man,

825
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this one of the follow ups from

826
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: our conversion therapy podcast. We got a lot of really

827
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: good responses on that and one bad one. Did you

828
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 1: see that guy? I didn't see that one. Now. Yeah,

829
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: we had a guy who wrote said he was quitting

830
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: us because of our liberal bias. But it was ring

831
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: because he says, well, I don't think conversion therapy is

832
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: something that works. I do think that homosexuality is a disease.

833
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: He's one of those. And h yeah. I wrote it

834
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: back and just I was very nice. I was like,

835
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: you could probably find podcasts that are better suited for you.

836
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: You didn't say, Sionara, no cultural appropriation. Yeah, I just

837
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: said good luck to you, sir. That was very classy. Chuck. Yeah. Um.

838
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: I always think it's interesting when people write us to

839
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: tell us. They're quitting it. Have you ever taken the

840
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: time to do I have not. You just quit something, right, Yeah,

841
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: keep it to yourself. Maybe, like you know, ran about

842
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: it to friends for a little while to get it

843
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: off your chest. But like, just so you know, person

844
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: prison I've never met. Uh. This is from Jordan's He says, hey, guys,

845
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: is a Southern Baptist turned agnostic. I absolutely detest the

846
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: acceptance of the garbage psychotherapy pseudo science of CT. Josh

847
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: mentioned that have you ever been an early teenager and

848
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: late teen ager? You know what it's like to be

849
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: sexually confused or curious. When I was between the ages

850
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: of fourteen and seventeen, I was called gay or the

851
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: F word many times. I did have what some might

852
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: consider tell tell signs stereotypically at least associated with being gay.

853
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: The bullying and verbal abuse was so intense and frequent

854
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: I truly started to question my sexual preferences. That question

855
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: was put to bed quite definitely, definitively one night when

856
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: a very good male friend of mine and I decided

857
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: to experiment some I'll spare the specifics, but I realized

858
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: that night this is just was not doing it for me.

859
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: But being the good Baptist boy that I was, I

860
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: felt guilty about that night, and even though I was

861
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: not aroused, it was still a homosexual act. I carried

862
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: that guilt with me for many years and through college,

863
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: until I realized almost every other male friend of mine

864
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 1: had some kind of experience that they could look back

865
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: on and say, this is when I knew I was

866
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: straight or gay, or buy or trans or whatever. At

867
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: that point, I was finally able to let go of

868
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: that guilt, and what a relief that was to my

869
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: mental health. I wanted to thank both of you for

870
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: making the point that an experience or a feeling you

871
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: have in that time of your life should not be

872
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: anything to feel guilty about. I didn't know that when

873
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: I was, and I was mentally abusive to myself over

874
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: a long time. What a shameful is how many people

875
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: would use the knowledge of such an act as a

876
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: weapon to abuse the person even more Boo hiss. So

877
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 1: to every teenager out there, please don't think there's something

878
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: wrong with you because of your curiosity. Embrace yourself. Don't

879
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: worry about what your peers or elders may think. You're

880
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: perfect the way you are, nice boom. That's from Jordan's

881
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: Thanks Jordan. Jordan wasn't even anonymous. Good for you, Jordan's Yeah,

882
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: he even drew a little mic dropping right. That was

883
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: a great email. Yeah, that's funny. If the guy who

884
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: said he wrote in to say he was quitting us,

885
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, cave diving. You get to the listeners

886
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: like that's it. He's gonna send us another email. He's like, oh,

887
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: this next one is called the gay disease. Maybe I

888
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: should listen. Uh, well, that was very nice with Jordan

889
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: to shout it out to everybody out there. Rady go

890
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: if you want to shout something out to support and

891
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: encourage your fellow humans, we love that stuff. You can

892
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: go on to stuff you should Know dot com and

893
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: send us something on one of our social links. Or

894
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: more better, you can go to your email client and

895
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: send us an email to stuff Podcasts at iHeart radio

896
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of

897
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the

898
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,759
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899
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.