1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're reminding 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: you to vote on Fat Bear week. Yeah, we're smashing 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: that vote button for Graser, a big old mama bear 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: who's trying to beat out all the Chalky Boys to 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: defend her title from last year. On today's show, we're 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: going to react to two big WNBA semifinal games and 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: a weekend of finishes and fines in the NWSL, Celebrate 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Coco's childlike joy, and continue to get your reactions to 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: last week's big interview with Christine Brennan. It's all coming 10 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: up right after this Welcome back slices. Happy Monday. Here's 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,319 Speaker 1: what you need to know today in WNBA playoff news, 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: The New York Liberty beat the Las Vegas Aces seventy 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: six sixty two in Game four to take their semi 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: final series three to one and eliminate the two time 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: defending champs. Big game from Brianna Stewart. She had nineteen points, 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: fourteen rebounds, and five assists in the win. Sabrina and 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: Escu hot from outside, she hit five of eight from 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: beyond the arc for twenty two points and added seven rebounds. 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: The difference in this one was a. 20 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: Third period during which Vegas just could not capitalize when 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: foul trouble sent Johnqwell Jones and Leoni Phoebich to the bench. 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: Liberty kept it tight throughout with the subs in, and 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: then they used a twenty three to eleven fourth quarter 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: to pull away and win this one. Asia Wilson nineteen points, 25 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 1: ten rebounds, five blocks, Kelsey Plump seventeen points. Tiffany Hayes 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: added eleven, but Vegas took the loss. Their record twelve 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: game home playoff winning streak ended, and so did their 28 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: hopes for a threepeat. You know, props to the Liberty. 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: Gonna be fun to keep watching them. I wanted more 30 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: games in this series, and I wanted more Asia Wilson. 31 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: And since she's done, we should take a moment to 32 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: talk about the season we. 33 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: Got from the MVP. 34 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: Not just the MVP, Asia Wilson, but All WNBA First Team, 35 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: WNBA All Defensive First Team, WNBA All Star, WNBA single 36 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: season rebound record, first one thousand point season in WNBA history, 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: and a gold freaking medal. 38 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: So have a year, Asia, and. 39 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Maybe now have a vacation because you got to be 40 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: tired from Karen that aces team this season. 41 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: A trip to Miami. 42 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: Perhaps anyway, Aces are going to get some rn R 43 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: while the top seeded Liberty move on. They'll have home 44 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: court advantage in the finals where they will face. We 45 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: still don't know, because the Connecticut Sun beat the Minnesota 46 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: Lynx in a thrilling Game four. 47 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: And that series is going to a game five. On Tuesday. 48 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: Back in Minneapolis, it looked like it was going to 49 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: be lights out for the Sun. They were trailing by 50 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: seven at the half, but they came out fighting after 51 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: the break. They took the lead midway through the third, 52 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: ballooned it up to double digits in the fourth, and 53 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: a late run from Mini that threatened was not enough. 54 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: The Sun hold off elimination, forcing that Game five, and 55 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: Ty Harris was part of the difference. First game back 56 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: for Harris since injuring her ankle in Game one of 57 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: the first round. She's one of those three point threats 58 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: like Marina Maybrey that can go off, and she did 59 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: not disappoint. Twenty points for a new career playoff high 60 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: for Ty Harris. Tjna Carrington the primary defender on Courtney 61 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: Williams for the first time in the series. That made 62 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: a difference and Alyssa Thomas doing Alyssa Thomas things and 63 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: more than Alyssa Thomas thinks because she pulled some fadeaways 64 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: out of her bag, saft touch off the glass, laid 65 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: on some bank shots. I mean she put in work 66 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: and she was doing it against the defensive player of 67 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: the year in the FISA Collier Eighteen points, eight boards, 68 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: eleven assists for Thomas. Her fiancee Dwana Batter went off 69 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: in the second half. She was looking at elimination in 70 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: the face and was like, absolutely not, that is not 71 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: going to happen. Eighteen points and eight rebounds for dB. 72 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: Right after the game, dj A Carrington Hotgun Sports Center 73 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: and she was asked about the boost that her team 74 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: found at halftime to finish that game strong and stay 75 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: in it, and she said, quote, at this point in 76 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: the season, if someone has to tell you to get 77 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: up for an elimination game, then you probably shouldn't be 78 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: in this locker room. End quote heard DJA More. Hoops 79 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: News sad to report that Nika Mule, the former Yukon 80 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: point guard who just finished up her first season with 81 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: the Seattle Storm, tore her left ACL in her first 82 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: game back with Istanbul Bass Club Bashiktash. The injury happened 83 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: when Mule grabbed a loose ball during the third quarter 84 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: of her EuroLeague Super Cup game. Bummed to see but 85 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: the fourteenth overall pick in the W draft is taken. 86 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: The moment in stride, she posted the Instagram quote, anyone 87 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: that knows me knows I work my ass off all 88 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: the time. This time isn't going to be any different. 89 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: I appreciate all the love and support so much. Y'all 90 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: really make this easier for my heart. I'm grateful for 91 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: all the people around me that are true testaments of 92 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: what belief and perseverance can achieve. After being denied hooping, 93 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: this is just another opportunity for me to compete, this 94 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: time against myself. 95 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: Not to be cocky, but that's an easy w End. 96 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: Quote, especially a bummer because Nika sat on the bench 97 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: a lot in the W learning in her first season 98 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: and was probably going to use this time in the 99 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: EuroLeague to get some reps in and to get even better. 100 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: Bummed for Unika, wishing you a speedy yet thorough recovery. 101 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: Some more W news. 102 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: Former Dallas wing coo Amber Coox now the Indiana Fever 103 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: COO and GM. She's going to officially join Indiana on 104 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: October twenty eighth. She's also had stints with the Phoenix 105 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: Mercury and the Connecticut Sun, and she's worked with the 106 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: Kansas City Current and the Houston Dash of the NWSL. 107 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: Lynn Dunn, the current GM and former head coach of 108 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: the Fever, now comes senior advisor to Fever Basketball, the 109 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: first in the organization's history. Moving out to tennis, Coco 110 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: Goff defeated Carolina Mohovah in straight sets to win the 111 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 1: China Open, her second WTA one thousand title and eighth 112 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: career title. GoF becomes the first American woman to win 113 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: Beijing since Serena Williams in twenty thirteen. In the post 114 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: final pressor, GoF reminded us why she's so fun to 115 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: root for. She congratulated Mouhova on her tournament in the 116 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: most Cocoa way ever, saying, quote, congratulations to you, Carolina. 117 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: It's great to see you back on tour. You're such 118 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: an amazing player. You deserve everything. Hopefully we play many 119 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: more finals. I don't want to say I hope some 120 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: go your way, but maybe against someone else they'll go 121 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: your way. 122 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: End quote. 123 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: Coco also posted a picture of the trophy on her 124 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: Instagram story with a caption referring to folks saying that 125 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: she only wins WTA two to fifty tournaments aka lower 126 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: level tournaments, and she wrote, quote she only wins two fifties. 127 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: Womp womp end quote. In response, a fan wrote, Coco 128 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: has the mentality of a five year old. I'm sorry, 129 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: and I thought. 130 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: Coco's response to the fan was beautiful and worth sharing. 131 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: She wrote, Honestly, kids have the best outlook on life. 132 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: They're so positive and creative, so I'll take it. My 133 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: goal this tournament was to play and enjoy tennis as 134 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: much as I did when I was a kid, because 135 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: that's when life was slash is. 136 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: The most fun end quote. I love it. Congrats on 137 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: the win. 138 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: Coco to soccer a few things in the NWSL, and 139 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: let's start with money, because an NWSL investigation found that 140 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: Angel City FC breached the league's salary cap and the 141 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: club received a two hundred thousand dollars fine plus a 142 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: three point deduction in the standings. The three point deduction 143 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: is the largest in NWSL history, and it really hurts 144 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: a team that's battling several others for a playoff spot. 145 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: In addition to the fine end points deduction, also two 146 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: front office members, including team president and CEO Julie Erman, 147 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: have been suspended from quote conducting duties related to any 148 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: player transactions end quote until January. An NWSL news release 149 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: says the violations come from Angel City entering into five 150 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: side letters directly with players that affected multi year agreements 151 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: and were not disclosed to the lead league in deals 152 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: that were executed last year. This compensated the players in 153 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: excess of what was reported to the league in their contracts. 154 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: Those undisclosed benefits put Angel City over the salary cap 155 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: by about fifty thousand dollars for four weeks during the season. 156 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: Might not sound like that much, but it feels like 157 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: the NWSL is trying to make an example of them 158 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: because of just how big and dangerous it might get 159 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: if sides keep doing the side deals to get players 160 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: to stick around or sign future deals. NWSL also said 161 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: it's going to conduct annual investigations and audits of player 162 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: spending league wide. In game action, the Pride continued their 163 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: record unbeaten streak with a two nil win over the 164 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: second place Washington Spirit on Sunday. That's twenty three straight 165 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: games without a loss. The win also clinched the first 166 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: National Women Soccer League Shield for the Pride, who secured 167 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: the league's top regular season record with three games remaining. Also, 168 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: Casey Current forward ten which Chewinga tied the record for 169 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: goals scored in a single season. She scored in the 170 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: second minute of a two to zero win over Racing 171 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: Louisville on Saturday. The goal mark Tuwinga's eighteenth of the season, 172 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: which ties the record that Sam Curse with the Chicago 173 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: Red Stars back in twenty nineteen. Sam still got the 174 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: backflips after goals, though I haven't seen a single backflip 175 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: from Chuenga, so I guess something to work on. 176 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: Twina's first chance. 177 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: To break the record and make it her own is 178 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: next Saturday, October twelfth, when the Current traveled to face BAFC. 179 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: More soccer news and we love this news. 180 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: Brazilian and global legend Marta told the Athletics she plans 181 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: to play pro soccer for at least two more years. 182 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: That is a huge sigh. 183 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Of relief on the heels of her retirement from international 184 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: soccer and after we've already had to deal with the 185 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: retirements of other players like Alex Morgan and Christine Sinclair 186 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: and Kelly O'Hara. Important to note, the Paris Olympic silver 187 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: medalist Marta said she's not sure if she'll remain in Orlando. 188 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: Her current contract with the undefeated Pride is up after 189 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: this season. Also some news we've been hoping here for 190 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: a long time. On Thursday, the FIFA Council pledged a 191 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: recommendation to the International Olympic Committee to expand its women's 192 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: soccer competition to sixteen teams. Now you know, the Olympic 193 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: tourney currently has twelve teams, four fewer than the men. 194 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: The women's tournament started in ninety six with eight teams. 195 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: That number goo to ten and four and twelve in eight. 196 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: It is now FIFA's hope that the switch to sixteen 197 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: teams will be made in time for the twenty twenty 198 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: eight Olympics. In La to volleyball, I just want to 199 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: mention that we are keeping an eye on this San 200 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: Jose State volleyball story. If you haven't heard, this Spartans team, 201 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: who started the season with nine straight wins, has had 202 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: four of their matches canceled recently, and that includes three 203 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: of their Mountain West Conference opponents, Boise State, Wyoming, and 204 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: Utah State all choosing forfeits in league play instead of. 205 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 2: Competing against them now. 206 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: None of the schools have publicly said why the matches 207 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: were forfeited, but the presence of a reported transgender athlete 208 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: on the San Jose State team is believed to be 209 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: behind the decisions, with her status generating an increasing amount 210 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,479 Speaker 1: of national media coverage despite her having been there. 211 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 2: For several years. 212 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: We're going to get some good reporting on that, so 213 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: stay tuned for more conversation. 214 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: Little Hockey News. 215 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: USA Hockey announced the roster for the program's three game 216 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: rivalry series against Canada this November. Longtime national team style 217 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: Wars Hillary Knight and Kendall Coin Schofielder on the team, 218 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: along with nine current college players. PWHL also have some 219 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: preseason action in November, the league announcing there'll be two 220 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: concurrent mini camps from November nineteenth through the twenty second. 221 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: Montreal Victoire will host the Boston Fleet and Ottawa Charge, 222 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: while Minnesota Frost and New York Sirens will travel to 223 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: the Toronto Scepters. Each team can bring thirty two players 224 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: to the camp to play scrimmages. Final rosters will be 225 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: capped at twenty three active players. 226 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: Finally, some fun news. 227 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: Glamour Women of the Year were announced and Serena Williams, 228 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: Sony Lee, and Allison Felix are among those named. Lee 229 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: battled kidney disease to make it back to the twenty 230 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: twenty four Paris Games and win gold. We told you 231 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: all about that during the Olympics. Serena Williams honored for 232 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of partnerships and endeavors post retirement, including 233 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: her makeup line Win Beauty, and a venture fund that 234 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: focuses much of its investments in founders who are women 235 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: or people of color. And Felix, well, she won the 236 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: Face of Change Award. Michael McKenzie wrote of Felix, quote, 237 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: she might be retired, but in some ways the Olympic 238 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: track and field legend is just getting started. She's got 239 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: a new baby, a forthcoming memoir, a NonStop commitment to 240 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: mothers in sports, and as a result of her tireless advocacy, 241 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: a twenty million dollar grant from Melinda French Gates end quote. 242 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: Pretty awesome stuff. As the WNBA Playoffs roll on. 243 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: I want to take a quick second for us all 244 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: to learn a little herstory. 245 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: Shall we a little on this day in women's sports? 246 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: So on October seventh, twenty eleven, the Minnesota Links won 247 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: their first WNBA title, defeating the Atlanta Dream seventy three 248 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: to sixty seven. Links guard slash forward Simone Augustus named 249 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: Finals MVP after leading the Links to a sweep in 250 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: the best of five series. She put up twenty two 251 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: points seven assists in Game one and a franchise playoff 252 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: record thirty six points in Game two, including fifteen in 253 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: the fourth quarter, then playoff record. Of course, we've seen 254 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: the FISA Kllier do more. Since the Links have won 255 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: four titles total. They're looking for number five this season, 256 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: but obviously they got to win on Tuesday to keep 257 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: their run alive. 258 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break. 259 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: When we come back, we chat about reactions to our 260 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: Christine Brennan interview. Stay tuned, welcome back slices. Like I said, 261 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: lots more WNBA playof talk to come this week. But 262 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: while the text and emails and voicemails are all still 263 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: coming in about our Christine Brennan interview last week, we 264 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: wanted to get into some of your thoughts and also 265 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: some things we heard from folks in the w space too. 266 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: So a couple things have happened since. 267 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: Then, and one of them is if you remember, in 268 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: the interview, Christine Brennan talked about her exchange with Dewanna 269 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: Bonner and kind of patted herself on the back for 270 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 1: wanting to talk more about it, wanting to share the 271 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: thinking behind her interview with Djane Carrington, and feeling a 272 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: little bit like Bonner wasn't interested in shaking her hand 273 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: or engaging. As it turns out, I heard from two 274 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: sources I made sure to confirm with the second that 275 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: Brennan actually filed a complaint to the WNBA about that 276 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: exchange with Dewanna Bonner. Kind of surprising based on how 277 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: she characterized it in the interview with us, but perhaps 278 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: not surprising based on the tenor that she takes in 279 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: some of her work. 280 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: Mesh Alex, I want to bring you in on this. 281 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: That was kind of shocking to hear that she presented 282 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: that as this opportunity for her to engage where she 283 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: was rejected and rather than trying to figure out why 284 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: do Wanna might not want to shake her hand and 285 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:04,719 Speaker 1: get into it. 286 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 2: She filed a complaint. What do you make of that 287 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 2: niche It's. 288 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 3: Tough to hear, you know what I mean, It's tough 289 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 3: to hear, especially when it was presented in a certain way. 290 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. 291 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 3: I like to think that we can get past the 292 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: egos of it all and we can get to a 293 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 3: point where, all right, it's no longer about you're right, 294 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: I'm wrong. It's about what's right for our league and 295 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: what's right for our relationships player. 296 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: To media player. 297 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 3: It's a fan, you know, the other way around. And 298 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 3: I'm just it's upsetting that somebody who's been in the 299 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 3: game this long, who was telling us about all the 300 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 3: things that she knows about being a journalist journalism one 301 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 3: O one would then go and do something like that 302 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 3: and then misrepresent it in an interview that just, I don't. 303 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: Know, it frustrating. It bothered me. It definitely was frustrating. Yeah, 304 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: and Alex, I can't confirm the language. 305 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: I haven't seen the complaint, but the sources told me 306 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: the language was that Dowanna Bonner accosted her again. This 307 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: feels like it's that coded language that we are are 308 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: so concerned with in this league and coded and loaded. 309 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 2: Coded and loaded. Absolutely, yeah, Well what did you make 310 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: of hearing that? 311 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 4: What stands out to me about all of that is 312 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 4: the fact that, similar to how at the end of 313 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 4: your conversation with Christine Sarah, she was saying, you know, 314 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 4: come and talk to me. I want to hear from people. 315 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 4: Maybe she wants quotes for a book, but I don't 316 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 4: think she's actually listening to what people are saying. And 317 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 4: even in the story that she re kinded to you, Sarah, 318 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 4: she's saying, you know, I told Dowana, like here, I'll 319 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 4: show you a video of the interview that I did, 320 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 4: as if that would change Douana's opinion. Trust that Dowana 321 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 4: has spoken to her teammate and is coming at this 322 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 4: from a place of understanding what she's talking about, as 323 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 4: opposed to if only you see more of my coverage, 324 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 4: then you'll understand where I'm coming from. 325 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: It's about talking instead of listening, which is what the 326 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: interview felt like too. Right, Let me give you more 327 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: of my credentials, let me tell you more people who 328 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: are going to be part of the book. Let me 329 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: tell you more of what done instead of let me 330 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: listen to the feedback that you're trying to give to 331 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: see if maybe it will change my perspective on what's happened. 332 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: And we got a lot of great voicemails and emails. 333 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: I've heard from a lot of folks in the space 334 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: and in the journalism space, including some who said that 335 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: their natural reaction was to presume that Christine had been 336 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: sort of wrongly singled out or attacked, only to learn 337 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: more of the context, to listen to our interview and 338 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: feel like they now understood that things were a little different, 339 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: maybe than what they had imagined. I also had a 340 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: chance to talk to some players and some folks who 341 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: had thoughts about the interview, and a couple interesting things 342 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: came out of that that I can share, which is 343 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: that the Associated Press Sports Editors reached out to the 344 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: WNBPA after their statement and wanted to set up a 345 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: call with them to figure out how they can make 346 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: sure that their reporters and editors are doing things well, 347 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: are contributing to the space in a way that's fair, 348 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: are asking tough questions, doing journalism, but doing so in 349 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: a way that understands the context in which they're doing it, 350 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: which I really respected and so did they. 351 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: Also. 352 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: Interestingly, I found out that the NFLPA has reached out 353 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: to the WNBA about their locker room decision making as 354 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: they are pursuing that decision for themselves. We're going to 355 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: get into that topic of locker room access and the 356 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: changing space a little bit later this week, but I 357 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: thought that was interesting too, and it was yet another 358 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: example of. 359 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: The WNBA and the WNBAPA. 360 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: Being sort of ahead of the game in sports, looking 361 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: at a space, looking at interactions with journalists and thinking 362 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: something needs to change or we can do this better. 363 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: And the fact that there are people and there are 364 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: media outlets trying to engage in good faith to say 365 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: what isn't working and why has this been so tense 366 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: and awkward this year is really nice to see and 367 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: they should be called out for doing that. And one 368 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: of the things that came up in the conversation with 369 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: the AP sports editors was how to make sure that 370 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: the headlines of things match the intent of the authors, 371 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: Because if the columnist is the one doing all the 372 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: work showing up to practice, showing up to games, interviewing 373 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: the players, and putting time and effort into having the 374 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: nuance in it, and then the headline is what ends 375 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: up being seen and shared, and that doesn't reflect that 376 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: same nuance that creates some of the issues. 377 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 2: And we talked about this both all of us. 378 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: You know, part of it is being lazy in coverage 379 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: and letting what's out there on social media like the 380 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: tail wagon the dog. You're supposed to be the one 381 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: that's creating the content and understanding the stories and leading 382 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: the way, not following what's being said on social and 383 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: we heard that from a handful of our listeners. Angelina 384 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: called in with this really excellent thought, So we'll play 385 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: this really quick. 386 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 5: What my frustration boiled down to, having listened to that 387 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 5: interview in four parts, because it kept shooting my blood 388 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 5: pressure up, is that at the core of her defensiveness, 389 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 5: at the core of her justification for how she's choosing 390 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 5: to move as a journalist, is an unresolvable contradiction. Repeatedly, 391 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 5: she said, Twitter's assesspool acts assessed poo, social media dissess 392 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 5: will be your trolls. I can't control them. I can't 393 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 5: control how people respond. But she can control how she 394 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 5: responds to those trolls and the way she has chosen 395 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 5: to respond to them is by taking their framing, taking 396 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 5: their narratives, and giving it to you, giving her platform 397 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 5: to those trolls, giving them a microphone. 398 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: I think that really makes sense, Misha and Alex, that yes, 399 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: you can be a part of the space in part 400 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: by engaging online and seeing what people are talking about. 401 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: But you get to choose which of those things you amplify, 402 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: which things you ask questions about. And Misha, I think 403 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: that was one of the biggest issues here is to 404 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: not just shrug your shoulders and say, these are the 405 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: questions I'm asking because they're out there, but to decide 406 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: which questions are worth asking, which is what you would 407 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: do in any space and. 408 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 3: In the time even before we could we confirm this 409 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 3: interview with Christine Brennan. 410 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: Sarah, I don't know if you remember, but you. 411 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: Myself and Alex were having conversations about this exact topic before, 412 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 3: and for me, that's always the hill I'm going to 413 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: die on. I don't care about the ratings. I don't 414 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 3: care about what's popular on social media. That's not what's important. 415 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 3: What's important is telling the truth and telling the real 416 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 3: story that's happening and unfolding on front of our eyes. 417 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 3: And when we, like you said, allow the tale to 418 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 3: wag the dog, allow everybody and everything that isn't informed 419 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 3: on what's happening in this space dictate what we decide 420 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 3: to talk about. 421 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 2: Then what are we even doing? Like, what's the point? 422 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 4: I think one of the things I've seen in the 423 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 4: last couple of years is that one as an editor, 424 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 4: I have had access to viewership data, and I know 425 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 4: that if you put Kaitlin Clark in a headline, you're 426 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 4: going to get more clicks on it. Put Kaitlyn Clark's 427 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 4: photo on the top of story, You're going to get 428 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 4: more clicks on it. And I say that because I 429 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 4: think you have to acknowledge the reality of what people 430 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 4: are up against in terms of deciding what's going to 431 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 4: focus their coverage. I'm not saying that you should be 432 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 4: putting Kaitlin Clark's name in every headline or that you 433 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 4: should be putting her photo on every story. But when 434 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 4: editors and writers are under pressure sure to get more 435 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 4: clicks to keep their job, that is not creating an 436 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 4: environment that is creating the best journalism. And so is 437 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 4: there a way to have more of a firewall between 438 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 4: those viewership metrics and the coverage that is being done, 439 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 4: because to be clear, I think there are plenty of 440 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 4: fantastic reporters and editors out there that are not letting 441 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 4: those metrics guide their coverage. But having seen it myself, 442 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 4: I know that there is often an incentive to do 443 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 4: certain storylines because they're going to bring in more viewers. 444 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: And that's a great point because I think I even 445 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,239 Speaker 1: mentioned to both Christine and I've mentioned on in our 446 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: conversations and in conversations with other people. I'm not blaming 447 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: people for the amount of Katelyn coverage, and I think 448 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: looking at white whale in the eye and being like, no, 449 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: thank you isn't great either, right, And we've seen it 450 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: in the past. I remember talking to my really esteemed 451 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: colleague who I respect, really respect, Kate Pagan, about Pagebeckers 452 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago and how it was frustrating 453 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: that it was another white player getting all of the 454 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: attention while the black players weren't. Right and do we 455 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: then intentionally not cover her or do we say, this 456 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: is an opportunity to bring attention to women's basketball, and 457 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: while you're here, let's yes and it ooh, Paige Becker's 458 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: and while you're here, check this out too, right, And 459 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: I think that's the balance you have to seek. The 460 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: difference is something I said to Christina as well. If 461 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: you're say ESPN and you know that Caitlin Clark's going 462 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: to get all the clicks, you can do that if 463 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: there's a story that makes sense. But if it's like, 464 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: for instance, what I saw in the playoff game where 465 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: within two minutes of that play with dj A Carrington, 466 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: there was a thumbnail image up that said, Kaitlyn Clark 467 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: black eye. 468 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 2: You know why you're doing that? 469 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: And that is something that you have to consider the 470 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: repercussions of understanding the narratives that exist. I still don't 471 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: know if ESPN would come back and say, that's a 472 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: big story people want to see, if people want to 473 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: know about it. But again, it's like, how do you 474 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: reconcile your responsibility for driving coverage with your responsibility to 475 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: minimize harm? 476 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: And it's framing. You know, it's framing at the end 477 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 3: of the day, if you're just gonna say black eye. 478 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: Right, or the worst headline that I called out, the 479 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: worst head that said that said, you know, Caitlin Clark 480 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: gets black eye from player who previously mocked her. It's like, 481 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: what do we this That sounds like you're creating sort 482 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: of causation correlation thing, which you know. So I think 483 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: the other thing, speaking of dj Carrington, that we've learned 484 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: in the last couple of days that you know, talking 485 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: to people about that exchange in particular, and the larger 486 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: body of Christine's work that caused the WNBPA to be 487 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: frustrated was that after her two questions that we did hear, 488 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: another reporter jumped in to ask dj A about what 489 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: it was like to plan under a microscope. And then 490 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: there's another Christine Brennan question, and Alex, I want you 491 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: to kind of set up this situation and like what 492 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: people are hearing and how it follows the exchange we've 493 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: heard a million times from that exchange between Brennan and DJNA. 494 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. Another reporter jumped in, I think actually kind of 495 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 4: building off of Christine's questions of hey, you're playing under 496 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 4: a spotlight in which something like you make in contact 497 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 4: with Kaitlin Clark is going to lead to stupid questions 498 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 4: like these my words not that reporters, right, right, And 499 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 4: then Christine jumped in to ask what do you think 500 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 4: of Kaitlyn Clark? And a reporter who was part of 501 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 4: that scrum sent us the audio and let's just roll 502 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 4: that tape. When do you think of. 503 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 3: I don't know. 504 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 2: I don't know. 505 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 3: That's the next question. I think he's a good player. 506 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: And yeah, now listen in a complete vacuum. What do 507 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: you think of Kaitlyn Clark is a perfectly fine question. 508 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: She's a great player, she's having a great rookie season, 509 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: she's breaking. 510 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 2: A lot of records. 511 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: When you ask that question immediately after the accusatory first question, 512 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: the follow up that was frankly nonsensical since the laughing 513 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: caught on camera was three quarters later after someone hit 514 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: a three and they were doing a celebration. 515 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 2: Then you follow those questions up with what do you 516 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 2: think of Kaitlyn Clark? 517 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Again, it's about contact next, and interesting that she didn't 518 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: include that in the clip that she shared on Twitter, 519 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: almost as if she understands that that was going to 520 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 1: be poorly received. I'm not sure why she didn't understand 521 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: that the first two would be poorly received, but again, 522 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: it might be that what we just talked about she 523 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: knew a lot of people would share it. 524 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: And talk about it. 525 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, I think it makes her intention behind 526 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 4: asking the first two questions even clearer. 527 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, I just want to reiterate here that 528 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 3: the main the thesis here for me is nobody is 529 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: above correction, nobody is above learning, nobody is above continuing 530 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: to grow in their reporting. In fact, I think it's 531 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 3: a responsibility that we all have. If we're going to 532 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 3: call ourselves big j journalists, you can't refuse. 533 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: To hear feedback. 534 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 3: And I think it's an issue we see reflected in 535 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 3: a lot of different parts of our everyday lives too, 536 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 3: Like people just thinking, because I've done X, Y and Z, 537 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 3: I'm cool doing whatever, people will believe me. You said 538 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 3: it yourself, Sarah. That a lot of folks, before they 539 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 3: really understood the context behind what was happening, they were 540 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 3: quick to say, you know what, I'm already on Christine's 541 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 3: side because I know her body of work, and so 542 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 3: I just want this to serve as yet another lesson 543 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 3: that you know, age doesn't equal maturity, age doesn't equal wisdom. 544 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 3: There are so many different things that we all need to, 545 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 3: you know, continue to work. 546 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: On as you do, but not just age. Experience and 547 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: that's that's you know. What I said after our interview 548 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: is like, yes, there's a body of work where you've 549 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: taken into context things and you've written with things with nuance, 550 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: But the fact that you've done that in the past 551 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: won't mitigate the harm you cause if you aren't doing 552 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: that now. 553 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 2: And that's the really important part. 554 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 4: I just was going to build off of what Misha said, 555 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 4: because I think sometimes people look at the conversations that 556 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 4: are being had in the WNBA space as gatekeeping, and 557 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think that that term is accurate 558 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 4: for a lot of reasons. In fact, I actually think 559 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 4: that having been a new reporter to the WNBA space myself, 560 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 4: I didn't really grow up watching the WNB. I didn't 561 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 4: grow up playing basketball, and so when I arrived in 562 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 4: the space, I had a lot of questions about how 563 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 4: things worked. But I came in with questions as opposed 564 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 4: to assumptions about how things worked. And I think that 565 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 4: was kind of the most disappointing part about Christine's reporting 566 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 4: this whole season, is that as somebody with so much 567 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 4: experience in the sports world, having a fresh perspective can 568 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 4: be so valuable to seeing this thing doesn't make sense 569 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 4: to me, or there's a better way to do this, 570 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 4: or why are players not being marketed? But instead of 571 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 4: coming in with those questions and asking questions, she came 572 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 4: in with a thesis yeah, and then ask questions to 573 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 4: help support it. 574 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: You know, one of our slices actually wrote us something 575 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: really thoughtful about that. We got to take a quick 576 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: break when we come back. You'll hear that slices commentary. 577 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: It's coming up right after this Welcome back. Slice's just 578 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: a couple more thoughts on this. 579 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: And I mentioned before the break that there was a 580 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: Slice who wrote in with some interesting thoughts that parallel 581 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: some of what Alex just had to say. 582 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 2: So this is from Stacy. 583 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: She wrote, quote, yes, she can make an observation and 584 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: write about Caitlin Clark's impact on the league, but she 585 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: didn't care enough to go any further on the WNBA 586 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: as a whole in its history is a reflection of 587 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: her what bias Caitlin clark fangirling ability to see herself 588 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: assists white woman in Kitlyn Clark and be swept up 589 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: in the frenzy enough to finally pay attention to the 590 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: w and make herself an authority a privilege not afforded 591 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: to journalists of color in majority white spaces. Looking at you, Tennis, 592 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: She could have used her platform and her legions of 593 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: readers to truly advocate and amplify the league. Yet she 594 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: consciously or unconsciously focused solely on Kitlon Clark, the bright, 595 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: new shiny thing. 596 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 2: That's lazy. 597 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: She could have made a difference, and instead we just 598 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: have this perpetuation of shit. She missed a massive opportunity. 599 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: So here's what I agree with Stacy. I don't think 600 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: she or anyone would show up to say, an NFL 601 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: space or an NBA space without putting the work in first. 602 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: They would be so afraid of the response, right, the 603 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: criticism from players, coaches, other media. I think there's a 604 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: real expectation when you showed up to cover something of 605 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: making sure that you know what you're talking about, even 606 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: if you're new, and you'll ask questions to make sure 607 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: that you are doing it right and you get things right. 608 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: I think she showed up with a real ego about 609 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: her history, and in that way was pretty disrespectful to 610 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: the league and its players about what they deserved from 611 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: a journalist. 612 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 2: Because Alex I. 613 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: Just think showing up to a space doing what seems 614 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: like very little work to understand the nuance in the 615 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: history and how you might be contributing to some of 616 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: the issues there is fundamentally sort of disrespectful or presuming 617 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: that it's small potatoes enough that you don't have to bother. 618 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I think too. Every space is different, and 619 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 4: reporting on figure skating is different than reporting on golf 620 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 4: is different than reporting on the WNBA. And I often 621 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 4: come back to the fact that we are this is 622 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 4: a league where players still do not have a lot 623 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 4: of control or autonomy or money even and so the 624 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 4: situations that they are being put in while making one 625 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars a year with that salary, you maybe 626 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 4: can't pay for security or a house that makes you 627 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 4: feel safe, like all of these things that we expect 628 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 4: pro athletes to have in the WNBA, those things aren't 629 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 4: always a given. And so coming in and just saying 630 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 4: I always ask questions like this doesn't reflect the space 631 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 4: that you have entered. 632 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: And the specificity of the toxicity around women, black women, right, 633 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: queer women, mask presenting women, Like at every element that 634 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: you add, there is more of an inherent lack of 635 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: safety in society, not to mention when in a spotlight, 636 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: not to mention when presented as a foe er an. 637 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 2: Opponent to a white lady. 638 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: And that matters so much because, yes, black male athletes 639 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: certainly have to deal with the issues of racism in society. 640 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: But that's one of the things that is not all 641 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: of the things I just listed, and that matters so 642 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: much in terms of whether she considered that in her work. 643 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: Right, Mesh. 644 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, And the other thing I'll add here is that 645 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 3: exact descripture you just gave about positive yourself as an 646 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 3: expert in a space where you're not an expert. I'm 647 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 3: just gonna say it's a few other people who could 648 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 3: learn that lesson as well, and I'm gonna drop the Micrade. 649 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean that's what I said at the 650 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: end of the interview. 651 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: That's been all season long, right, has been people with 652 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: the loudest voice and the biggest platform getting heard the most, 653 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: not the ones who necessarily. 654 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: Know the most. 655 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: And I even told you all when we were starting 656 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: this show, I said to you, I've spent the last 657 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: thirteen years covering men's and women's sports. I have covered 658 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: women's sports when I could, I have also covered a 659 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: lot of men's sports. 660 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 2: I have a ton to learn, meish. 661 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna come to you for hoops a lot, because 662 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: that's what you've been like, really diving in alex I'm 663 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: gonna come to you for Olympic sports because you're such 664 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: an expert in that. I'm gonna show up and tell 665 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: you when I don't know something because I don't need to. 666 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: I'm comfortable enough with my work and myself to say 667 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: I don't know all the things and I want to 668 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: keep learning them. And that's what so many people showed 669 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: up in this space without doing, and that's tough. A 670 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: couple last things really quick. You know, when I was 671 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: talking to some of the players and WNBPA folks about 672 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: just this general season, the one thing I did say 673 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: is I don't want it to be sick of fantic 674 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: or one voice. Because we're all trying so hard to 675 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: offset years of garbage. There still needs to be journalism 676 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: done and the players can be respected enough to know 677 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: that they know the difference between tough questions journalism, the 678 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: kind of things that you're going to get as a 679 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: pro athlete as your league gets bigger. 680 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: And more popular. 681 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: The difference between that in feeding into troll narratives, not 682 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: doing the work, being lazy, ignoring nuance. And I want 683 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: to make sure people listen and get that too, because 684 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: I've seen, you know, during this award season. Not I'm 685 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: not gonna say bullying, that's like too extreme of a term, 686 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: but like basically groups of people online being like we 687 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: got to find out who voted for whatever, like they 688 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: must be motivated by something beyond opinion, right, And I 689 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: even felt like we called out Becky Hammond for being like, 690 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: oh you had to dive into a whole define a 691 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: feast of Colliers Defensive Player of the Year, And that's 692 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: just I felt like group think cannot be the goal. Yes, 693 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: there should be way more understanding of the things at 694 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: play when someone doesn't get the coverage of sponsorships, the awards, 695 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: the etc. Potentially because they're a black woman. But also 696 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: it can't be the reverse of like now everybody has 697 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: to have the same opinion all the time, or else 698 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: we're going to presume that they're coming from a bad 699 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: place and that journalism is like what's going to help 700 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: the league continue to grow and get better. So that 701 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: has to be there too, And I think you guys 702 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: both agree. 703 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 3: With that, right, Oh yeah, definitely, it's it's not negotiable. 704 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. 705 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: One of our callers, I think, admitted to being new 706 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: to the space, not knowing anybody in the space, including 707 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: me or Christine. Something that she did say that I 708 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: thought was meaningful was that as a new fan, she's 709 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: just looking everywhere to listen and hear people talking about things, 710 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: and she's trying to learn, and she feels like everyone 711 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: in the space is so tense. She's like, I'm new, 712 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: but like all the podcasts I'm listening to, and like 713 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: your interview and other interviews, everyone feels like they're going 714 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: to say the wrong thing where there's always like this tension, 715 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: and that is true. That is how this space has 716 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: felt all season long. And it's been tough because sometimes 717 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: you do have a fair question where you do have 718 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: a different opinion and you're like, I'm not even going 719 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: to share it. I'd mentioned this before, but like I'm 720 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: either progressive woke and that's why I'm saying something, or 721 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm an old white lady and that's why I'm saying something, 722 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: and either way, someone's going to filter it through that 723 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: to criticize it. So sometimes I just go all right, 724 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: I'm saving this for a time I can have more 725 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: of a conversation on it. But I don't want us 726 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: to feel that way either, where it feels like, you know, 727 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: you can't do journalism and have thoughts and positive questions. 728 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 4: I think part of what contributed to that is one 729 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 4: the fact that we as a society don't allow a 730 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 4: lot of space for gray area. 731 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: Right now, right right. 732 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 4: People are complex. Sometimes we agree with them, sometimes we don't. 733 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 4: But two, you know, I think we could talk about Christine. 734 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 4: It felt like had a lot of blind spots in 735 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 4: her coverage of the WNBA and the way that she 736 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 4: went fully focused on Caitlin Clark. But I also think 737 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 4: stream media has blind spots in the fact that you know, 738 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 4: Christine was talking about her resume and all the places 739 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 4: where she is asked to speak on these topics because 740 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 4: Christine is still known as women's sports person, and so 741 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 4: viewers on CNN, viewers on PBS, viewers on ABC are 742 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 4: hearing Christine's thoughts, thinking oh, this is a reflection of 743 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 4: what's happening in the WBA, and that is then adding 744 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 4: to the narratives that we are seeing. 745 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,479 Speaker 1: One of our slices pointed that out very wisely too, 746 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: And actually, someone I know that's writing a book on 747 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: women's sports said, interesting that that's where Scribner went to 748 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: someone who hasn't covered women's basketball other than a little 749 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: bit of Olympic coverage. 750 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 2: Because that's the name that they know. 751 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: No, you know, she's written a best selling book, several books, 752 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: so no shade to that. But it is interesting how 753 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: sometimes you can become sort of this idea of something 754 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: and in practice it might not be a reality, and 755 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: that to great point Alex can lead to the coverage 756 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: being led by someone maybe that isn't as informed. 757 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:01,439 Speaker 2: Last little thought here. 758 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: According to Terry Jackson, she expected people to be asking 759 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: did the WNBPA react to Greg Doyle at the beginning 760 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: of the season when he gave Caitlin the her hands 761 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: and eventually got pulled off of coverage. She said she 762 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: went to the league on that too, and they didn't 763 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: really do anything. That it was ultimately his own newspaper 764 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: that pulled him off. The beat that the league has 765 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: taken a real hands off approach to regulating who's covering, 766 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: presumably in an attempt to allow more coverage and more 767 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: voices and whatever, and that's a push and pull between 768 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: the league and the WNBPA about what's opening up the 769 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: league to more publicity and more eyeballs and what's potentially 770 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: not helpful to the league. I do think that Christine 771 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: Brennan was singled out because of expectations for her right 772 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: and because of the influence she can have as somebody 773 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: who is seen as somebody who covers women's sports and 774 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: speaks for women in a very different way than other 775 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: places that do shit coverage, but people don't expect much 776 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: from them. 777 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just wanted to add one thing to that because, again, 778 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 4: like I mentioned, I a few years ago new to 779 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 4: the space, and at that point I was writing for 780 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 4: NBC as a full time editor, but basically a writer. 781 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 4: And the point I want to make is that a 782 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 4: lot of people on the outside may not realize that 783 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 4: most of the people in the space are not being 784 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 4: paid and so there are far fewer professionals and I'm 785 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 4: using the term professional there meaning being paid full time 786 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 4: getting health benefits to do this work. That's not an 787 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 4: indication of the work that they are doing, because oftentimes 788 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 4: they are doing work that meets professional guidelines. And so 789 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 4: I think going just big picture. This is a space 790 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 4: where there has not always been an outlet to take 791 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 4: control over its reporters if they are not acting in 792 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 4: a healthy, respectable manner towards players, because that is usually 793 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 4: where the outlet would come in to say, hey, Greg Doyle, 794 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 4: you're out of line. You're not covering the fever this season. 795 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 4: But because USA Today did not do that with Christine, 796 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 4: and because she works for an outlet that typically would 797 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 4: do that, unlike plenty of other spaces in the WNBA 798 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 4: media space, I think that's also where this is coming from. 799 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: One percent, one thousand percent, And that's a great point 800 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: because especially a lot of startup, smaller websites or places, 801 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: they're not going to have the same just general guidelines 802 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: or idea of how to control the reporters that work 803 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: for them, or a desire to abide by an expectation. 804 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: So that's that's a really great point. There's so much 805 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: more we could say on this. We so appreciate the 806 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 1: feedback we've gotten. That was a tough interview and it 807 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: was frustrating at times, and I hope that some of 808 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: the responses just get Christine to just assess, you know, 809 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: some of what she's doing and I really appreciate all 810 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: y'all sticking with it and listening and sending us all 811 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 1: that feedback. 812 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 2: We love that you're always listening. But you know, we. 813 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: Always want you to get in the game every day too, 814 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: So we do have a quick good game play of 815 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: the day. It's simple, just give us one of your 816 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: favorite Asia Wilson memories of the season. It's so easy 817 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: to overlook greatness. So while Asia's season might be done, 818 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: we still want to know what you'll be thinking about 819 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: this year, next year, for years to come. Do you 820 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: have a favorite play pregame fit the White Tea era. 821 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 2: A Twitter response to Sid Colson. 822 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: Whatever it is, let us know by reaching out good 823 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: game at wondermedianetwork dot com, voicemail is eight seven two 824 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: two oh four fifty seventy or at Sarah Spain on 825 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: Twitter at Spain two three two three on Insta. 826 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. It's easy. 827 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: Watch Friends that Feel Like Family, rating a bajillion out 828 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 1: of a bajillion belly laughs review you know it's cool. 829 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 2: A lot of you had people come to mind as soon. 830 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: As I said the words friends that feel like Family, 831 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 1: The ones you call with good news and bad news. 832 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: The ones that know the names of all your ex'es 833 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: and your crushes, your favorite foods, your favorite bands, your 834 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: favorite vacation spots, and you're thinking about. 835 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 2: Those people right now. That's cool. 836 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: What's also cool is if nobody came to mind for you, 837 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,919 Speaker 1: that just means your friend family is still getting ready 838 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: for you to find them. Friendship is one of the 839 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: best things that we get while we're here. 840 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: So do me a favor. 841 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: If you're thinking about a butt of yours, give them 842 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: a call, send them a text, just cuz to steal 843 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: a lyric from one of my favorite bands, Mountjoy, who 844 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: I just happened to see play three shows in the 845 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: last week. Quote tell the ones you love you love 846 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 1: them Now. It's your turn, rate and review. Thanks for listening, slices. 847 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: See you tomorrow when we chat with award winning journalist 848 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: Melissa Ludkey. Good Game, New York Liberty, Good Game, Sun 849 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: Fighting Off, Elimination Q series that end too early when 850 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 1: we want. 851 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 2: To watch more basketball. 852 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports 853 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You 854 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio, App, Apple Podcasts or 855 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network. 856 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 2: Our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. 857 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan 858 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez, 859 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradowell. Production assistant from Lucy Jones 860 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain