1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: the fundamentals are there for inflation. I take for a 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: why we don't necessarily need free money and zero interest 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: rates forever. Washington at this point doesn't want to add 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: regulation to bitcoin. Bloomberg Sound on the insiders, the influencers, 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: the inside. Let's look at the student loan debt, which 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: is absolutely staggering. In my view, you can't spend enough 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: on infrastructure. Given the size of fiscal stimulus we've already seen, 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: this seems like a drop in the bucket. Sloomberg Sound 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. All right, congratulations 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: for making it to five o'clock exactly on a Friday. 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: I am Jack Fitzpatrick in on as a guest host 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: for Joe Today. Coming up, we're going to talk to 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Congressman Andy Levin, Democrat of Michigan. He's on the Foreign 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: Affairs Committee, so have a lot of questions for him 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: about what we've seen with the warning about doing business 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: Hong Kong and other news. We're gonna hear from Ramesh Panurus, 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: a Bloomberg opinion columnist, who's going to give us an 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: update on the fate of Jerome Powell, and of course 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: I've got Rick Davis and Jennie son Zano, both Bloomberg 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: Politics contributors with me today to go over the biggest 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: news of the weekend look ahead to next week. I'm 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick hosting Today. I am here with Rick Davis 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: and Jennie Sonzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors. We've got to get 25 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: into the biggest news of the week and really look 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: ahead to next week. We heard this week from Senate 27 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Majority Leader Chuck Schumer that he is setting a couple 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: of deadlines on Wednesday to get some progress on both 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill that is supposed to have bipartisan support 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: and the three and a half trillion dollar measure that 31 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: Democrats want to get on their own through the Senate. 32 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: Now we've heard from the President on this. President Biden 33 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: has talked about his his confidence that the bipartisan infrastructure 34 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: deal is not going to fall apart. He talked Thursday 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: to reporters about this. Hear the sound on what the 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: President had to say about that. I've watched and listen 37 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: to the press declared my initiative dead at least ten 38 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: times so far. I don't think it's dead. I think 39 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: it's still alive. Alright, so it's not dead, he says, 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: he's confident. Um, I want to know what this Wednesday 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: deadline really means, though, Rick and Genie, because we we 42 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: hear some confidence confidence from lawmakers on both the infrastructure 43 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: measure and the three and a half trillion dollar Democratic bill. 44 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: Schumer wants progress by Wednesday, setting up votes procedural early 45 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: procedural votes on Wednesday. But what does that mean, Rick, 46 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: do you think we're actually going He's gonna pressure people 47 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: into uh sort of turning this into a concrete deal. 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: What is the point of this Wednesday deadline that Schumer 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: is setting up for both of these bills. Well, for 50 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: the traditional infrastructure he's setting up what's called a cloture vote, 51 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: and that requires sixty votes to move forward on a bill. Right, 52 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: so before you even actually vote on the bill, you 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: have to vote to move forward. And and that's the 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: great test vote, right, that's where people typically uh filibuster. 55 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: So if Republicans are going to oppose this bill, then 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: it's going to come out, Uh, they won't want to 57 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: proceed to it and then have a whole you know, 58 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: uh show around it if if they don't want to 59 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: actually pass it. So so it's a really important thing 60 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: and uh, and so that'll be something to watch on Wednesday. 61 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: With the what's called human infrastructure these days, I think 62 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: what um Schumer's trying to do is basically corral his 63 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: own caucus uh and try to make sure everybody's on 64 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: board to move forward in a in a strictly UM 65 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 1: I would say optics move so one actually has real 66 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: voting associated with it, uh and is a Republican thing 67 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: to watch cloture on the hard core infrastructure bill and 68 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: the other is more symbolic, but you know, forces Democrats 69 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: to sort of coalesce around the bill. Right. Well, I 70 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: guess what I'm really getting at though, is you know, 71 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: they've they've slowly been making progress, and I'm curious, is 72 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: this is this a sign that Schumer is getting nervous 73 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: and thinks he needs to prod them along because it's 74 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: going to just stagnate, or is is this a sign 75 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: of confidence that he thinks, oh, we could actually have 76 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: some concrete progress by next week. Jennie, do you what 77 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: what is the motivation that you see behind these two 78 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: deadlines that Schumer has said well, Jack, I know you've 79 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: had a busy week this week. I am for seeing 80 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: that next week and the next three weeks. Actually, Jack, 81 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: you're not going to get much rest because what seems 82 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: to me to be happening, and I agree with Rick, 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: but what seems to be happening is Chuck Schumer, who is, 84 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, a legislator like Nancy Pelosi, like Joe Biden. 85 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: They know they are up against the clock. Several deadlines 86 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: are looming in Congress right now, not the least of 87 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: which is going to be a debt ceiling fight that 88 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: comes up pretty soon, and of course they're going to 89 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 1: have to fund the government. So he knows he's looking 90 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: at about three weeks in July to get this legislation done, 91 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: if I understood correct. He said he maybe um be 92 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: able to introduce it as soon that the bipartisan bill 93 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: as soon in the sun, as soon as next week. 94 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: Um I I don't know if that's going to happen, 95 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: but he knows very very well that they have a 96 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: deadline here. It is going to be this and he 97 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: also warned senators earlier this week that they may have 98 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: to blow the August break if they don't meet these deadlines, 99 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: so he knows they are under the gun here. Yeah, 100 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: I I think I'll tell you right now. I was 101 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: thinking about taking trips in a vacation at some point, 102 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna I'm not going to do it 103 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: in early August. I'm absolutely not going to do that. 104 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: The idea that August recess will start at the beginning 105 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: of August, Uh, seems dubious to me. Now, Gene, you 106 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: mentioned the debt limit. I am fascinated by this because 107 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: really I've I've asked for months the lawmakers involved in this, 108 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: and they don't really seem to have much of a plan. 109 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: We heard about the framework for this big reconciliation package, 110 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: that's that three and a half trillion dollar or bill 111 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: that Democrats are talking about. They technically could do debt 112 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: limit through reconciliation and not need bipartisan support, but it 113 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like that specifically the plan. Rick, where do 114 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: you think we stand on the debt limit? The debt 115 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: the deadline for that technically is in two weeks, but 116 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: Treasury can bump that back by essentially delaying payments. Uh. 117 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: Do you see any any real plan for the debt limit? Well, 118 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: that's what gop UH. Senators have asked Yelling to comment 119 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: on is she prepared when we hit the limit on 120 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: July one to use what's called extraordinary measures, which is 121 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: basically keeping bills in the bottom drawer. I think we've 122 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: all used extraordinary measures at one point in our lives 123 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: and uh and it applies to the federal government. So 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: can we blow through this debt limit and not have 125 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: to have a vote on before July thirty four? Or 126 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: is the Treasury Department going to force the question? Typically 127 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot of handwringing, but the limit always goes up. 128 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: Usually deals are cut in order to get people to 129 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: UH follow suit and allow that limit to be increased. So, UM, 130 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: I think I think it's a practical concern, but not 131 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: one that's going to like shut down government this time around. Okay, 132 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: So for all these big deals that you know, we've 133 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: been talking about the Senate so much, and I do 134 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: want to point out at this point the House is 135 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: I would say, virtually as close in terms of the 136 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: Democrats majority as the Senate. They've got two hundred twenty 137 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: of the four hundred thirty one seats, meaning they could 138 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: lose four votes on any of these bills that they 139 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: want to do in a partisan way. The Democrats in 140 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: the House, if they lose five, then they're doomed. Um 141 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: Alexandria Occascio Cortez said a couple of days ago or yesterday, 142 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: rather pointed out progressives could tank this infrastructure by partisan 143 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: infrastructure bill if they don't also get this three and 144 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: a half trillion dollar bill coming over from the Senate. Um, Genie, 145 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: what is the utility in making that kind of threat? Who? 146 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: Who do you think that's aimed at? You know, I 147 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: think it is a warning across the bow to any 148 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: sort of moderate Democrats who might threaten to sort of 149 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: pull out of any if you want to call it 150 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: a deal so far, and you have Nancy Pelosi who 151 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: has been very clear that she is saying the Senate 152 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: has to pass both measures before the House takes up either. 153 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: So she is putting the onus on Chuck Schumer. Hence 154 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: again we see him moving very quickly. But you know, 155 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: this is what happens when the House, as you mentioned, 156 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: is so close three or four votes and the Senate 157 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: is fifty fifty. Is every individual vote matters. If one 158 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: person falls out a line and threatens by saying I'm 159 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: not going to vote in favor of this, the power 160 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: comes to them. So I think it's also a power 161 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: grab on the part of you know, Alexandrocasio Cortez and 162 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: anyone else who wants to stand up and say I'm 163 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: not going to do this. Right. It's really fascinating to see, 164 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: for the most ambitious legislation, the way Democrats can only 165 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: walk on the thinnest of ice. You really can't lose 166 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: votes at all essentially on anything. One other topic I 167 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: really wanted to touch on today, uh is vaccinations, because 168 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: earlier today the CDC director Rochelle Wolenski noted that the 169 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: seven day average of COVID infections is actually up se 170 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: from the previous week. Now, that's low in the context of, 171 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: you know, the peaks of the pandemic in the US, 172 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: but that's twenty thousand, three hundred new infections per day 173 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: on average over the last week. And she described this 174 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: as the quote pandemic of the unvaccinated. And I just 175 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: wanted to get you guys, hear your thoughts on the 176 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: way this is developing into something that is sort of 177 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,719 Speaker 1: politically concentrated. You know, of the the new cases were 178 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: recorded in the state of Florida. Rick, I'm at a 179 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: loss to think of what what's the policy prescription for this? Well, 180 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: I think it's what they're already doing. Right. The administration's 181 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: launching a pretty aggressive effort both with the ME and 182 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: advocates to get out and try and convince people to 183 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: uh to get their vaccines. They're they're they're deploying troops 184 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: and I mean civilians, uh to go literally door to 185 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: door in some of these places that have really low 186 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: vaccination rates, as you point out, I mean like only 187 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: one in five, um, one in five of the new 188 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: infections in Florida are with people without vaccines, and in 189 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: four states, uh, they account for of all the cases 190 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: primarily being driven by this delta variants, So we know 191 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: where they are, right. I Mean, it's not the entire country. 192 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: It's not a macro message, but um, you can't force 193 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: people to do it, and so uh, every I think 194 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: it's really an advocacy thing. And it's not like they're 195 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: not available. Vaccines are available in every community the country 196 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: right now. But if they don't get the vaccine rate up, 197 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: we'll have two America's, a vaccinated America that I'll have 198 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: free and open privileges and an unvaccinated America, which is 199 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: going to be a public health disaster. Yeah, you know, 200 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: I I think you're You're getting it. It's something important. 201 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: Although I would also point out though, if this is 202 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: brewing anywhere, whether it's in a few states in the 203 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: US or even in a different country, that risk of 204 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: new variants developing gets more and more serious. Coming up, 205 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: I want to talk to Remesh Panuru, Bloomberg opinion columnist, 206 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: who has some thoughts on how it might not be 207 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: such a good idea for Biden to consider getting rid 208 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: of Jerome Powell as FED chair. That's up next. I'm 209 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Sound On 210 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. You've 211 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: made it to Friday. Uh, it's earlier. We spoke with 212 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: Rick and Genie, Rick Davis and Jeannie Schanzano on the 213 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: legislative agenda in Congress. Lay later we're gonna hear from 214 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: Congressman Andy Levin, Democrat from Michigan. But right now I 215 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: want to bring in Ramesh Panuru, who is a Bloomberg 216 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: opinion columnist, A senior editor at National Review. He's a 217 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and this morning 218 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: he plub published a piece titled Replacing Powell would be 219 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: an unforced air. Uh. This is all in the context 220 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: of Federal Reserve Board Chairman Jerome Powell's term ending in 221 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: February of next year. Powell was not a pick of 222 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: President Biden. Uh, and so that raises the question of 223 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: whether somebody else is going to get that spot. But really, Ramesh, 224 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: can you kind of lay the groundwork for why exactly 225 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about this. I know there's been some criticism, 226 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: there's some high profile criticism of Powell, recently by Elizabeth Warren. 227 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: But just to set the stage, I mean, when you 228 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: wrote this, how likely do you think it is that 229 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: the president is looking for an alternative as FED chair? Well, 230 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: it seems hard to believe, um, because it would be 231 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: such a mistake on his part to replace Powell. UM. 232 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: But I have been reading reports. Uh there's been a 233 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: lot of speculation um that President Biden would like to 234 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: put his own person there. Uh. And you can certainly 235 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: see how it might have a kind of appeal. Uh. 236 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: It is an extraordinarily important economic policy making job. And 237 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: you know this is somebody who was appointed by President Trump. Uh, 238 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: and this is President Biden's chance to put his own 239 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: person in there when that term expires at the beginning 240 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: of next year. And that's the backdrop here. That's I 241 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: think why people are talking about it, because the term 242 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: is coming toward an end. Right. Um. I'm curious if 243 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: this comes down to sort of a debate over some 244 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: of the praise he's gotten over the response to the 245 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: recession and the monetary policy front in terms of responding 246 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,359 Speaker 1: to a recession versus uh. You know, for example, Elizabeth 247 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: Warren criticized him, saying he's been too easy on banks. Uh. 248 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: There there may be sort of a push from the 249 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: left more on on the banking side. Uh. Does the 250 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: response to the recession play in his favor or what 251 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: what criticisms uh and praise are we sort of trying 252 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: to balance and turn figuring out where Powell really stands. 253 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: I think that it is exactly the issue that you 254 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: just put your finger on. It's a question about which 255 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: is more important the macroeconomic policy where you are combating 256 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: an economy wide downturn on the one hand, or is 257 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: it banking regulations. Powell is a Republican, he's a Trump appointee. 258 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: He is not as enthusiastic about regulating the banks as 259 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: Senator Warren is, being somebody on the swing of the 260 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: Democratic Party in her case, and so she wants somebody 261 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: who is more like minded. The question is, let's say 262 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: that that's that she's right on regulation, and you want 263 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: somebody who's more pro regulation and more enthusiastic about it 264 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: than Powell is. It just doesn't seem to be a great, 265 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, one of his top issues, something that is 266 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: deeply concerned about. Even if Senator Warren is right, is 267 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: it worth taking the risk to the overall economy and 268 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: monetary policy in order to get a small improvement on 269 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: the bank regulation side of the Federal Reserve? That I 270 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: think is the question. And it seems to me to 271 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: be a very myopic focus on the regulation question um, 272 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: which is not this sort of the core thing that 273 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve does. Where does Janet Yellen fit into 274 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: all of this, as a Treasury secretary and former FED 275 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: chair who has worked with him closely on the response 276 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: to the recession. Well, I would be surprised if Yelling 277 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: were not mindful of the exact institutional role at the 278 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: Federal Reserves human plays obviously, since she has been in 279 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: that position herself, and I think she's cold understand that 280 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: this is a pretty delicate moment for monetary policy. As 281 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: we come out of the pandemic recession, and as we've 282 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: got what may be a transitory surge of inflation or 283 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: maybe the start of an unsettling of inflation expectations. That 284 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: seems to me to be a time you'd want continuity, 285 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: and I suspect she's going to see that too. Well. 286 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: In your piece, you point out that there's going to 287 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: be another opening. Randall corals his term as uh he's 288 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: actually the vice chair for supervision. Can you explain it 289 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: is that sort of a pressure valve for anybody who 290 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: may want a fresh face. I think that there are 291 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: any number of places that a progressive who wants more 292 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: action on bank regulation could look too, and one of 293 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: them is certainly that vice chairmanship, which has direct responsibility 294 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: over the regulatory side of the Federal Reserve. Um. If 295 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: I were Biden and I were trying to satisfy this 296 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: progressives who are concerned about this, That's where I'd go 297 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: rather than do something that could could really have a 298 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 1: negative effect on the credibility of our overall economic policy. Paneura, 299 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. For Mesh is 300 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: a Bloomberg opinion columnist. He's a senior editor at National Review, 301 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: a visiting fellow at the over at the American Enterprise Institute. 302 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: I would record recommend reading his piece in full. Replacing 303 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: power would be an unforced air interesting take. We're gonna 304 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: bring Rick and Genie back when we come back, and 305 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: then we're going to get to Congressman and eleven Democrat 306 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: of Michigan to talk about all the biggest news of 307 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: the day and look ahead to next week in Congress. 308 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our 309 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven, Frio to 310 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to the country, Sirius XM 311 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: General one nine and around the globe the Bloomberg Business 312 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Sound 313 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick, your host on 314 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: this lovely Friday. I'm in for Joe today. Coming up, 315 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna hear from Congressman Andy Levin. He's a Democrat 316 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: from Michigan. He's on the Foreign Affairs Committee, and there 317 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: is a lot of foreign affairs news to discuss and 318 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: clue in Hong Kong Haiti potentially travel between US and Europe. 319 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. I am here today with Rick Davis 320 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: and Jeanie Schanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors. Guys, I didn't quite 321 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: finish our discussion in the earlier segment on the coronavirus 322 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: UH and the issues with vaccination at least in certain places. 323 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: The big news on that, in addition to what we 324 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: talked about with Rochelle Wilenski earlier today, was that President 325 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: Biden this afternoon was speaking about social media networks. He 326 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: was speaking about UH as he said, the only pandemic 327 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: we have is among the unvaccinated and the effort to 328 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: persuade people. He was asked what he makes of the 329 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: spread of misinformation about coronavirus vaccines on social media networks. 330 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: His response was quick. He said, they're killing people. I 331 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: want to get your your response to that. I'm not 332 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: sure if you think he's overstating it or understating it. 333 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: But that is a forceful, forceful tone from the president 334 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: directly to social media networks. Rick, what, what's your initial takeaway? Uh? 335 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: And I mean, is it quite as as significant as 336 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: he's saying that this can be pinned to a significant 337 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: degree to the way information is spread on social media. Well, 338 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: it certainly falls into this broader category of misinformation and disinformation. Right. 339 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: There have been battles going on for quite some time 340 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: with these social media companies to try and clean up 341 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: their act and start, you know, regulating to some degree, 342 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: what what what's on their sites? If they have people 343 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: who are, you know, creating all kinds of disinformation around 344 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: the public health disaster, I think it's fair game for 345 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: the president to go after him and and and so 346 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: you have this big organ of the government trying to 347 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: convince people that it's in all of our best interests 348 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: to get a vaccine, and then you have anybody who 349 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: wants to make up whatever story they want to put 350 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: it on social media and attraction. So it's it's a 351 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: very difficult fight. But I think some of that obligation 352 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: goes into these social media punnies, and they should listen 353 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: because when public sentiment turns against them, they're not going 354 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: to have very many friends on Capitol Hill. Well, it 355 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: absolutely makes you wonder when you see lawmakers marking up 356 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: antitrust measures. You know, this spread of misinformation alone is 357 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: not the only issue anybody has with social media networks. 358 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: So I, uh, it's uh, it's not a great newsday 359 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: apparently for them after those comments, very forceful comments from 360 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: the presidency. They're killing people with the spread of misinformation 361 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 1: on the pandemic and on vaccines. I also wanted to 362 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: touch Rick and Jennie on the latest fundraising numbers because 363 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: there's a really interesting trend in the second quarter fundraising 364 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: numbers in the House and Senate. It's been pointed out 365 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: that some of the really high profile opponents or critics 366 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: of former President Donald Trump, people like Senator Lisa Murkowski, 367 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: who voted to impeach him the second time, people like 368 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: Anthony Gonzalez, uh Gonzalezmurkowski Katie Britt in Alabama has has 369 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: been criticized or is at least as running against an 370 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: ally of they're actually out fundraising Uh their opponents. Uh, 371 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: what do you make, Genie of this trend that in Alaska, 372 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: the Murkowski not really a friend of Trump. Gonzalez not 373 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: a friend of Trump. Not sure that britt in Alabama 374 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: is an enemy of Trump, but Moe Brooks, who she's 375 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: up against, is a great friend of Trump. Uh, they're 376 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: winning the the fundraising battle. Is that meaningful in the 377 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: context of Republican primaries or what do you make of that? Genie? 378 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: That's part of the problem. Another one to add to 379 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: your list, as of course Liz Cheney, who we here 380 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: beat out at least Devonik her replacement in terms of 381 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: fundraising this last quarter. Um, the problem is is that 382 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: how much of that money and I don't have the 383 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: data on this is coming from out of district, out 384 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: of state. As you mentioned, the challenge here for these individuals, 385 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: if they are opposed to Donald Trump, say, is they 386 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: have to run in republic in districts. They have to 387 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: run in primaries in which turnout is very low, and 388 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: the people who do do turn out are very active 389 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: and interested. And so it's these jerrymander districts in these 390 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: primaries that get them out, not necessarily the general. So 391 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 1: while I believe the money is an important statement and 392 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: it's important to keep track of, it's these gerrymander districts 393 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: that really become a problem for people like Liz Cheney. Well, yeah, 394 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: the fundraising is is a good thing to have, but 395 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: I bring this up because I'm just not sure it 396 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: necessarily is a substitute for winning the race. Um. At 397 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: last thing I want to touch on before we go 398 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: over in the next segment to Andy Levin. Uh, somehow 399 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: the Free Brittany movement is something I actually wanted to 400 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: discuss on this show about politics. Did you guys catch 401 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: for one? Matt Gates, the Congressman, went to the Britney 402 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: Spears Conservative Conservatorship hearing a couple of days ago outside 403 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: and was railing against the idea of conservatorships. He is 404 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: not the only one, not even the only Republican who's 405 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: getting in on this. Uh. Ted Cruz actually dedicated part 406 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 1: of his podcast to this issue. Let's let's hear what 407 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz had to say about Free Brittany. But I 408 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 1: gotta say on the question of the Conservative ship, I 409 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: am squarely and unequivocally in the camp of Free Brittany. 410 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: I think this is freaking ridiculous what is happening to 411 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: Britney Spears and it needs stand so with all of 412 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: the they talk about their restrictions that are placed on 413 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: Britney Spears daily life. I'm fascinated by the way this 414 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: is kind of filtered into the political the political realm, 415 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: and how it seems to lend itself to libertarian kind 416 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: of criticism. Genie, what what do you make of the 417 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: fact that this is this kind of making its way 418 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: to Washington. It is and and on both sides of 419 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: the aisle. The nrc C was was trying to raise 420 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: money on the basis of this. You have Elizabeth Warren, 421 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz, met Gates, as you mentioned, all of them 422 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: speaking out. I do think there are things that Congress 423 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: can do. This is a state issue, obviously in Britney 424 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: Spears case, but there are things they can do, including 425 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: try to get date on how many people are under 426 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: these conservative ships, which we do not have at this point. Yeah, 427 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: I actually noticed that Senators Warren and Casey have written 428 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: to h h S about that. Rick, What's what's your 429 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: take on this? I'm having a hard time taking this 430 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: very seriously. I mean, Brittany unites Washington by partisanship flourished. 431 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: You know, Look, Washington is Hollywood for ugly people. We 432 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: love the stories, superstars and uh and there are exceptions 433 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: to the rules, but that's that's that's a slight thing 434 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: that goes way back. So like, I think everybody should 435 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: rally around this. I think we should have congressional hearings, 436 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: and I think anything that gets us off of our 437 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: current scenario in Washington would be great. Let's bring Brittany 438 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: to Washington. It is such a weird issue the way 439 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: it's cross cutting politically. Up next, we're going to talk 440 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: to Congressman Andy Levin, Democrat from Michigan, with Rick Davis 441 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: and Jeanie son Zano. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg. 442 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg son On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 443 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick, your host for the day. I was 444 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: just talking to Rick Davis and Jennie Sonzano. Coming up, 445 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: we're going to hear from Congressman Andy Levin. He's a 446 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: Democrat from Michigan. A lot of news to discuss with 447 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: the congressman. I believe we have him on. Congressman, thank 448 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. I feel ridiculous leading 449 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: with this, but Rick and Genie and I were just 450 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: discussing what is becoming the political movement of hashtag free Brittany, 451 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: all of the Washington discussion about conservatorships, about apparently how 452 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: little we know about how many people are in conservatorships 453 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: or guardianships around the country. As as strange as it sounds, 454 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: I have to ask, have you heard about sort of 455 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: the politically how how familiar are you with free Brittany? 456 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: Come on, Jack, Brittany is is a global figure. And 457 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: when something that's common but none of us know much 458 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: about happens to somebody like that, who can believe this 459 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: woman generating of our way into adulthood, generating millions of dollars, 460 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: doesn't even have control over her own life, it's shocking. 461 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: And then policymakers like me have to say, wait a minute, 462 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: what if that happens to a regular person. You know, 463 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: we've got to make sure that that people have control 464 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: over their own lives when appropriate. So of course I've 465 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: heard of it. It's united all of us, from the 466 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: right to the left, or many of us anyway, to 467 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: say that we've got to let adults who are fully 468 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: capable of managing their own affairs do so. All right, Well, 469 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: I will check in with We're gonna look up who 470 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: is the Chairman of the House, Britney Spears Caucus and 471 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: and see exactly where this goes. I don't mean to 472 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: make light of it, you know, the more we learn 473 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: about it, it's uh, it's a it's a really kind 474 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: of depressing issue. But I had to bring it up. 475 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: I also have to bring up because you are from 476 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: Michigan before we get into all of the Washington news. 477 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: You guys are going through an interesting bit of redistricting, 478 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: I believe partly because the Senate the census numbers came 479 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: in late. I know Michigan has one of those independent 480 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: redistricting commissions. Uh, and I heard the last I'd heard 481 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: was that it was rejected in terms of getting an 482 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: extension on the time to actually draw those maps by 483 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: a court. Where what's next in Michigan redistricting and where 484 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: do we go from here? Well, so you know, we 485 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: know we've got an for the census numbers to know 486 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: that Michigan will lose a seat for sure. So in 487 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: the US House, from four team we have now will 488 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: go down to third team, and we may be the 489 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: only state that's losing a district. And for the first time, 490 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: switching over to a citizen commission to draw the boundaries, 491 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: which is great. No more gerrymandering, you know, no more 492 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: politicians picking their voters, let the voters pick their elected officials. 493 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: So that's great. The problem is that the last president 494 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: messed up the census, delayed it, tried to get his 495 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: unconstitutional citizenship question, all that kind of stuff in there. 496 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: And so the numbers you're going to come in late, 497 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: and we're not going to know what these new districts 498 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: are for sure, probably until January. And so you know, 499 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: that's going to be a very tight timetable for Michigan 500 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: but also for many other states as we prepare for 501 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: the big midterm elections. In Yeah, I mean that is 502 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: very late, and I don't know where where you stand 503 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: on courts giving them more time. And at a certain point, 504 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, how do you decide to run for office, 505 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: or how do you decide where to run for office? 506 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: How do you even research who you're a member of? 507 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: Congress is going to be? Um, what is there a 508 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: hard deadline when the country essentially needs to have these 509 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,479 Speaker 1: maps absolutely ready to go, Well, Jack's I mean, speaking 510 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: as a lawyer, it's a little bit of a tempest 511 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: in a teapot about what just happened. Essentially, the Citizen 512 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: Commission in Michigan said, hey, you need to tell us 513 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: right now that we have more time, because it's like 514 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: an impossible for us to meet the deadline. And basically 515 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: what the Michigan Supreme Court said was, well, we don't 516 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: give relief prospectively for something that didn't have to be 517 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: at So even though it's definite, it's gonna be definite 518 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: that they can't meet their deadlines. The Supreme Court did next. 519 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: I think when it comes down to it, since they 520 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: won't have the data at time, they will have to 521 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: be allowed to more time. I just don't think there's 522 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: any practical way they can get it done before, certainly 523 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: in December and probably January, and so we're just gonna 524 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: have to pivot with it. Some of them are Michigan's 525 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: primaries in early August. Some states, as you know, have 526 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: primaries in June and even May, and so that's going 527 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: to be even crazier. So it's a it's a problem, 528 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: and we're just going to have to work super hard 529 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: to overcome it. Well, that important thing is we ought 530 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: to get rid of partisan gerrymandering everywhere in this country, 531 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: and that's what we do in our for the People Act, 532 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: which we passed in the House and is sitting over 533 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: there in the Senate, right, I was, I was going 534 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: to mention it. It's it's been a big you know, 535 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: it was only a few years ago, maybe two dozen 536 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: fifteen or so when the Supreme Court ruled, uh, they 537 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: are I believe Arizona was one of the ones under 538 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: question that they are constitutionally allowed these independent redistricting commissions. 539 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: Very notable that you all are forced pushing for that 540 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: to be around the country. Um, let's talk about other 541 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: difficult deadlines though, because over in the Senate Majority Leader 542 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer is pushing for action on the infrastructure and 543 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: the three and a half trillion dollar reconciliation measure with 544 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: all their other economic priorities by Wednesday of next week. 545 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: And I'm curious for you, as a House member, as 546 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: a member of the Progressive caucus, do you feel that Pelosi, 547 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: that Speaker Pelosi is solidly on progressive side when progressives 548 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: such as Alexandria Cassio Cortez Cortez say we need that 549 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: three and a half trillion dollar measure also or else 550 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: we don't know that we can support the infrastructure bill. 551 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: How how do you address the way those two have 552 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: been tied together? And is Pelosi solidly on progressive side 553 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: on this? Nancy Pelosi is solidly on the side that 554 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: we must have both. But you know, it's it's kind 555 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: of simple in a way. Right. The more moderate folks 556 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: are especially excited about the bipartisan deal that the President 557 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: struck for infrastructure. I'm for that too, But then the 558 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: president's own plan, right, his American Job Planned, American Famili's 559 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: plan called for something much bigger than that, and what 560 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: the Senate budget proposal does is essentially completes what the 561 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: President wanted to get done. So of course we progressives 562 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: are saying we must have both together, and so we've 563 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: got a very complicated jack, but we are going to 564 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: have to figure out how to get the bipartisan in 565 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, sort of basic old fashioned infrastructure is being done, 566 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: but also do the thing that delivers universal childcare and 567 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: free community college and two for years of tuition and 568 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: fee free at historically black colleges and universities, and a 569 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: lot of climate change stuff, you know, many other things 570 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,239 Speaker 1: that will really transform our economy and and make it 571 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: more just. I think it will cause a big boom 572 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: in this country if we can get this done, and 573 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: I think we will get it done well. The more 574 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: we hear about what Democrats want to accomplish before August recess, 575 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,439 Speaker 1: the more I think it's going to be a very 576 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: very busy next couple of weeks and or just a 577 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: delayed August recess. Um I want to touch Let me 578 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: just let me just say that all we're trying to 579 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: do before the July is get the budget resolution past 580 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: and then all the details of the actual reconciliation package 581 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: have to go through our legislative committees in September. But 582 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: go ahead, UM, I want to touch me, especially because 583 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: you're on Foreign Affairs on a couple of the biggest 584 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: stories recently one on Hong Kong, on the president's warning 585 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: to companies about operating in Hong Kong and the risks 586 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: associated with the Chinese government. Is there another shoe to 587 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: drop in your opinion, it was that warning effective or 588 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: or what else should we watch from either Congress or 589 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: is there anything you'd like to see from the executive 590 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 1: branch pushing back on some of the issues in terms 591 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: of Beijing, uh Beijing's influence in Hong Kong and business 592 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: is business is practicing there. Well, I think that what 593 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: the announcement this week's acknowledge was simply reality. I mean 594 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: that you know that the two systems policy that Britain 595 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: and China negotiated was supposed to go to and then 596 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: in China passed this security law that has effectively ended it. 597 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: So I think the United States really China faces a choice. 598 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: Do they want Hong Kong to remain a global financial 599 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: center that's sort of a link between China and the world, 600 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: or do they want to continue down this road which 601 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: they are well along of turning Hong Kong just into 602 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: another part of China. And if they do that, American 603 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: businesses are not going to be able to ower any others. 604 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: They're they're just not gonna be able to operate in 605 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: Hong Kong the way they have for all these years. 606 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: And and so yeah, it's it's you know, stay tuned. 607 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: It could be trouble for businesses. One other area of 608 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: the world I believe you have focused on, at least 609 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: in the past is Haiti. Uh. And I'm curious after 610 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: the President said he had sent marines to the US 611 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: embassy for security, but it sounds like they are not 612 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: plans for real troop level there. What what do you 613 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: think needs to happen for sufficient security in Haiti if 614 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: you could give me maybe a twenty or thirty second answer. Yeah, Look, 615 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: we've sent the Marines into Haiti in the past and 616 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: it's never done any good the Haitian people. We need 617 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: to make sure our own facilities are secure, as the 618 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: President has But then Jack, we need to turn to 619 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: listening to Haitian civil society, the churches, the businesses, the unions, 620 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: the educators, the health care sector, the human rights groups, 621 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: the bar association. They're meeting, they're coming up with the 622 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: Haitian solution, and we ought to support them to return 623 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: to democracy in a real way. There. Congressman, thank you 624 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. That was Congressman Andy Levin, 625 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: Democrat from Michigan, touched on a whole lot of topics, 626 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: and thank you again earlier to Ramesh Panuru, Bloomberg opinion 627 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: columnist and a senior editor over at National Review. And 628 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 1: of course thank you to Rick Davis and Jeannie Schanzano 629 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors. That's it for me today. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. 630 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg,