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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are told that a

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Speaker 1: hundred volunteers have mobilized in the search for this child.

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Speaker 1: He's four year old Malachi Lawson. Here's his picture. He

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Speaker 1: was here in Northwest visiting his grandmother. He is actually

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Speaker 1: from East Baltimore. We're told that the grandmother and the

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Speaker 1: boy were outside. She went in the house for snacks.

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Speaker 1: When she came back outside, he was gone. At that point,

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Speaker 1: I believe police were notified. They were searching all evening.

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Speaker 1: They had helicopters in the area searching. We were notified

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Speaker 1: this morning to assist, and we gathered about one hundred

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Speaker 1: volunteers to assist in the search, and we've been doing

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Speaker 1: that ever since now. The police have said that he's

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Speaker 1: mildly autistic. It is that information that you were given

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Speaker 1: as well. We've had conflicting information. We did find a

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Speaker 1: credible source saying that that was not the case. He

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Speaker 1: just had some speech issues. So what do you want

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Speaker 1: people who are out there and out in the neighborhoods

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Speaker 1: to do at this point? At this point, if this

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Speaker 1: child had some spectrum issues, he might not act like

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Speaker 1: a typical of four year old would. He could just

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Speaker 1: be sitting on somebody's porch. He could be maybe in

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Speaker 1: a tree. We don't really know. But at twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours missing, we're obviously very alarmed and worried, and we

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Speaker 1: want to make sure this child gets returned to his mother.

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Speaker 1: You know, at a moment like this you have to

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Speaker 1: take and analyze every single word you're hearing, because literally

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Speaker 1: minutes count when a child is missing. A four year

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Speaker 1: old boy, at first thought to have autism, later to

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Speaker 1: be believed with basically speech impediment. Four years old Malachi

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Speaker 1: Lawson on the front porch with his grandmother at her house.

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Speaker 1: She goes in to get a snack, comes back out.

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Speaker 1: He's gone, I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. You were just hearing wjay

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Speaker 1: Z Reporter Pat Warren, where is Malachi? Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends at wma R. We checked the seven

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Speaker 1: thirty here. It's got a tremendsemental wardage area with paths.

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Speaker 1: We had ten and fifteen guys in there checking each path.

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Speaker 1: We checked wrestling with Plaza. We checked the PLASA nearby here.

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Speaker 1: Heshei Klein as the vice president of Operations for Baltimore

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Speaker 1: SHOWMRIM he says. City police called them this morning to

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Speaker 1: help with the search, and they immediately got nearly one

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Speaker 1: hundred volunteers. A lot of us are fathers, a lot

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Speaker 1: of us are grandfathers. And you have a four year

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Speaker 1: old child that is missing, defenseless, unable to defend themselves.

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Speaker 1: That struck a nerve. Oh. I'm a father of two

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Speaker 1: young children, and so when you hear about I'm missing child,

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Speaker 1: your gut reaction is to do everything that you can

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Speaker 1: do to help. Councilman Yitzi Schleifer spent the day looking

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Speaker 1: for Malachi. He says it was no surprise so many

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Speaker 1: people pitched in, no matter what neighborhood they're from. Everybody

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Speaker 1: really comes together here in this district to look after

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Speaker 1: one another, and especially when it comes to a child.

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Speaker 1: When they wrapped up, other agencies continued like Baltimore Police,

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Speaker 1: the FBI, and state police. If you see Malachi, call

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Speaker 1: police immediately. He was last seen wearing a tank top,

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Speaker 1: khaki shorts, black flip flops, and bright blue glasses with

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Speaker 1: braided hair. Police say he walks with a limp since

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Speaker 1: he broke his femur when he was younger. I know

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Speaker 1: you're hearing a police news report that was our friends

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Speaker 1: at WMAAR two Aaron McPherson. But every word I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: is like I'm drinking out of fire hydra because it's

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Speaker 1: so I'm trying to process how this is going to

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Speaker 1: help me find them, and I just want to go

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Speaker 1: to somebody really quickly, to Darryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor

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Speaker 1: with me in inner City Atlanta, now renowned defense attorney, Darryl.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to rub you the wrong way, but

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Speaker 1: you know, when everybody gets in front of the microphone

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Speaker 1: starts talking about how we all came together, or and

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Speaker 1: we all these people and we're gonna have a vigil

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna light a candle, maybe it makes me

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Speaker 1: a bad person, but that just irritates me. It irritates

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Speaker 1: me so badly because TikTok, TikTok, TikTok. All I can

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Speaker 1: think about is okay, bright blue sunglasses, khaki shorts, flip flops,

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Speaker 1: four years old, has a limp? Where is he? Why

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Speaker 1: can't anybody find him? How did he go missing so quickly?

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Speaker 1: Don't waste your time lighting a candle. Although I know

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Speaker 1: that makes people feel better, it makes me feel worse

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Speaker 1: because we're losing time. Well as I see it, lighting

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Speaker 1: the candles as he's dead, I don't see that. I

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Speaker 1: see You've got to look for every little thing to

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Speaker 1: point out the sunglasses. That's major. Can you find those sunglasses?

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Speaker 1: Are they on the ground, Are they somewhere? We're looking

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Speaker 1: for clues. We're looking immediately for things that can help

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Speaker 1: bring us to him as quickly as we can, because

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Speaker 1: of his a because of the fact that he walks

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Speaker 1: of the limp. These are major things. Forget the families

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Speaker 1: that comeing together, remember the people who are looking, and

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Speaker 1: give them the major clues that they need. So if

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Speaker 1: they see a child, they immediately they look for the

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Speaker 1: braided hair. They look for all the little things that

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Speaker 1: by themselves mean nothing, but put together, they mean everything.

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Speaker 1: Karen start psychologist. Everything he just said is right, But

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Speaker 1: I still I hate to even say it sometimes because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be thought of as being harsh

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Speaker 1: or cold. But the candles and the flowers and the

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Speaker 1: teddy bears. He's missing. And I appreciate the love I do,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like everybody needs to be outlooking or

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Speaker 1: doing something instructive to find a child. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a bomb is about to blow up.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I've been around it for so long, but literally

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Speaker 1: minutes count. And I keep looking back at the story

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Speaker 1: of the Grandma. And I'm not doubting the Grandma. I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying she's a big liar. But on the front porch.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's because it scares me inside that this could

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Speaker 1: happen to John, David and Lucy. Maybe that's why I

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Speaker 1: get so frantic and crazy. There you go, Nancy, that's

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Speaker 1: right explained. I think that for every parent it's so

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Speaker 1: frightening to hear us. You know, you just can't even

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Speaker 1: begin to imagine that that would happen to your child.

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Speaker 1: And yes, every minute really does count. I mean seconds

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Speaker 1: are counting when you're talking about a child. The people

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Speaker 1: who are out there with the candles and the teddy bears,

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Speaker 1: they're doing it for themselves because they can't go looking

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Speaker 1: for this child and they don't know what to do

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Speaker 1: with themselves, so they have to have some kind of

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Speaker 1: sign that they're aware that he's missing. But I think

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Speaker 1: what they're two separate issues. Actually, yeah, you know what,

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Speaker 1: You're right. I think that's it. They're doing everything they

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Speaker 1: can at that moment. So I guess they're trying in

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Speaker 1: their own way to do something for Malachi Lawson. Not

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Speaker 1: everybody can leave work and go look, everyone can leave

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Speaker 1: home in the middle of the night and go. Look.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone is a cop or running a group of knees.

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Speaker 1: So they're doing what they can, and for that, I'm grateful.

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Speaker 1: All I can do is analyze the facts with me

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Speaker 1: right now. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page.

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Speaker 1: Let me just start at the beginning, Levi, because every

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Speaker 1: fact matters. Tell me, how did this little boy four

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Speaker 1: years old with a limp? You know what that means

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Speaker 1: to me? Translation, he can't go far and he can't

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Speaker 1: go fast. Okay, he's got a limp, and everybody knows it.

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Speaker 1: He didn't leave on his own and get that far.

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Speaker 1: If she just went in to go get a snack.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what happened. Don't leave anything out, Levi. He

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Speaker 1: was He was in the front yard near the front

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Speaker 1: porch playing when the grandmother said that he vanished. And

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Speaker 1: we know that he had a mother. Her name is

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Speaker 1: Alicia Lawson. She's twenty five years old and she had

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Speaker 1: a wife who is forty and she is the person

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Speaker 1: that called nine one one to report him missing, and

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Speaker 1: this child was nowhere to be seen. We know that

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Speaker 1: the FBI was involved. We know that law enforcement immediately

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Speaker 1: dispatched search dogs to search for him, and they detected

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Speaker 1: no scent in this area at all. He was literally

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Speaker 1: vanished without a trade. Okay, hold on hunter, right there,

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Speaker 1: right there, Karen Smith joining me, well known friendsis expert.

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Speaker 1: I've worked with her many many times on recreations, founder

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Speaker 1: of Bare Bones Consulting. What how is this translating in

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Speaker 1: your head? Now? That bugs me right there that dogs

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Speaker 1: are brought in immediately and they cannot pick up a cent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is bothersome. And you're dealing with Baltimore. That is

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Speaker 1: a big city. And you're right, he had a limp.

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Speaker 1: He couldn't go far. He was only four, He was

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Speaker 1: just a little boy. So the first thing that goes

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Speaker 1: through my mind is a snatching grab. Is he in

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Speaker 1: a car? Do we have a description? Did anybody see anything?

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Speaker 1: You know, this is a wide berth. Police are at

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Speaker 1: a loss right now. If they're bringing in dogs. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they're suspecting foul play at this point,

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Speaker 1: but that is a standard procedure. You're bringing in canines.

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Speaker 1: They have a nose that can smell a thousand times

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Speaker 1: things more than weekend. So you're doing a wide berth.

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Speaker 1: You're sending out patrol officers all over the city in

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Speaker 1: different areas, and you're just looking at gas stations for footage.

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Speaker 1: You're looking at Walmart's, at McDonald's, at all these restaurants,

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Speaker 1: anywhere where an adult would take a child. And I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you, Nancy, this breaks my heart because this little

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Speaker 1: boy literally vanished into thin air and the police are

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Speaker 1: left with very, very little in the way of evidence

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Speaker 1: or what may have happened. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: we have another night with a missing four year old.

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Speaker 1: Malachi was here on this block in the forty five

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Speaker 1: hundred block of Rogers Avenue with his mother at his

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Speaker 1: grandmother's house. When the mother went inside for something, and

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Speaker 1: when she came back, he was gone. Volunteers joined the

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Speaker 1: search for four year old Malachi Lawson as if he

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Speaker 1: were their own, since this is on your route. This

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Speaker 1: little boy went missing from right here in this block

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Speaker 1: just yesterday. If you see, I hear anything, feel free

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Speaker 1: to call me. Thank you. He was reported missing from

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Speaker 1: his grandmother's house and the forty five hundred block of

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Speaker 1: Rogers Avenue in northwest Baltimore. Around three thirty yesterday, State

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Speaker 1: police brought in a canine unit to aid in the search.

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Speaker 1: Baltimore Schamrim mobilized a hundred more volunteers and we just

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Speaker 1: drop everything and we run. Well, here four year olds missing.

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Speaker 1: We have bloodhounds that are searching the area. We have

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Speaker 1: FBI help from our FBI agents who are helping us,

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Speaker 1: going door to door, working with resources. Malachi's family this evening.

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Speaker 1: His mother and grandmother were not at home. Are they

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Speaker 1: coming back this evening? I thinker went to police, deal

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Speaker 1: with the police. You're hearing our friends at w jay Z.

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Speaker 1: That was reporter Pat Warren. Now I just heard something

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Speaker 1: that caught my attention. Immediately my head snapped up from

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Speaker 1: the notes I was taking. I want to hear if

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Speaker 1: you catch it as well. Now listen to Pat Warren.

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Speaker 1: Now listen to Pat Warren reporting. Just twenty four hours before,

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Speaker 1: we are told that a hundred volunteers have mobilized in

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Speaker 1: the search for this child. He's four year old Malachi Lawson.

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Speaker 1: Here's his picture. He was here in Northwest visiting his grandmother.

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Speaker 1: He is actually from East Baltimore. We're told that the

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Speaker 1: grandmother and the boy were outside. She went in the

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Speaker 1: house for snacks. When she came back outside, he was gone.

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Speaker 1: At that point, I believe police were notified. They were

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Speaker 1: searching all evening. They had helicopters in the area searching.

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Speaker 1: We were notified this morning to assist, and we gathered

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Speaker 1: about one hundred volunteers to assist in the search, and

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Speaker 1: we've been doing that ever since now. The police have

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Speaker 1: said that he's mildly autistic. It's that information that you

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Speaker 1: were given as well. We've had conflicting information. We did

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Speaker 1: find a credible source saying that that was not the case.

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Speaker 1: He just had some speech issues. So what do you

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Speaker 1: want people who were out there and out in the

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Speaker 1: neighborhoods to do at this point? At this point, if

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Speaker 1: this child had some spectrum issues, he might not act

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Speaker 1: like a typical four year old would. He could just

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Speaker 1: be sitting on somebody's porch. He could be maybe in

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Speaker 1: a tree. We don't really know. But at twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours missing, we're obviously very alarmed and worried, and we

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Speaker 1: want to make sure this child gets returned to his

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Speaker 1: mother again. Debbie jay Z. Did you hear that? And

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Speaker 1: my head nearly snapped off my neck. Yeah, they sounded

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Speaker 1: a lot alike. But twenty four hours ago, it was

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Speaker 1: reported he was sitting on the front porch with his grandmother.

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Speaker 1: Twenty four hours later, he's sitting on the porch with

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Speaker 1: his mother. Did anybody hear that beside me? Because that

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Speaker 1: is a very big difference. And I'm not gonna bore

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Speaker 1: you for too long, but I've got to recount when

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Speaker 1: John David went missing, my son, who was now eleven.

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Speaker 1: Praise be to God, they've made it this far. Lord,

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Speaker 1: help me keep going with them and keep them safe.

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Speaker 1: I will never forget as long as I live. And

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Speaker 1: it all started at the community pool. Okay, I'm there

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Speaker 1: as usual, swimming fully clothed, and some mom came up

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Speaker 1: to me in her cute little lily pulitzer out that

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Speaker 1: and starts talking about how she makes her own organic sunscreen. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the clock because i know I've only

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Speaker 1: got one hour before I have to get out of

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Speaker 1: the pool and go to work. Wet and trying to

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Speaker 1: change clothes at work to get on the air, and

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling like the biggest loser ever because I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm apparently rubbing cancer into my children's skin every day. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well you know the next morning, I'm up with the

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Speaker 1: children's dragging them to Babies are Us warehouse to try

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Speaker 1: to find organic sunscreen. Okay, that's how the whole thing starts.

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Speaker 1: And I blame that mother. Every time I see her,

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Speaker 1: I just want to wring her neck. So I'm there

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Speaker 1: and the shelves start down at the floor and they

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Speaker 1: go really really high, and you actually have to get

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Speaker 1: help if you want something up off the top. So

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Speaker 1: I'm down there and all my glory with the twins,

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Speaker 1: I'll scratch down on the floor trying to find organic sunscreen.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking, I can't find it. I'm kind crawling along

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Speaker 1: the floor, trying to go from this one to that one,

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Speaker 1: to that one to this one. I finally give up

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Speaker 1: and stand up. Turned around. There's Lucy. There's no John David.

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Speaker 1: I picked I had practiced this many times for fire drills.

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Speaker 1: I picked her up like a football and we started running.

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Speaker 1: I can steal here. I had those horrible crocs, giant

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Speaker 1: bright knee on pink crocs on my husband had given

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Speaker 1: me in his misdirection and running along trying to find

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Speaker 1: John David. I went about three aisles. Finally I screamed,

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Speaker 1: bloody murder, locked the doors. My son is missing. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Everybody looked at me like I was a space alien,

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Speaker 1: so I started screaming again. Long story short, as you know,

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Speaker 1: we found him. He had snuck off in his crocs,

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Speaker 1: which are silent, and was on some other road trying

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Speaker 1: to break into a toy. Okay, so that's what happened.

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Speaker 1: But if somebody now retold that story and said it

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Speaker 1: was my mom who was there looking for organic sunscreen,

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Speaker 1: that is a big problem. That's changing the story, Daryl Cohen.

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Speaker 1: You know, because you and I have had on different

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Speaker 1: sides of the fence, you had a defendant I target.

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Speaker 1: When they start changing their story, or anybody changes a story. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not blaming the mom or the grandma, but when

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Speaker 1: their story starts changing, I got a problem, Daryl, A

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Speaker 1: big problem. I don't have a problem if it's a

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Speaker 1: small thing, but mother versus grandmother, as opposed to yellow

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Speaker 1: versus pink, there's a major difference. There's somebody or somebody's

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Speaker 1: that are no longer telling the truth. They probably weren't

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, but now it becomes blankly obvious. So

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Speaker 1: if they're not telling the truth, is a mother, is

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Speaker 1: a grandmother, maybe it's grandfather. Oh my gosh, Now we

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Speaker 1: know that their veracity, their truthfulness is gone, and we

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Speaker 1: can no longer believe anything they said. And that can Nancy,

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Speaker 1: your wife. That is major. Well I disagree with you, actually,

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Speaker 1: because right now somebody asked me what were John David

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Speaker 1: Lucy wearing on Halloween. Let's see, John David was a pickle.

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Speaker 1: I now know that there is an icon in some

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Speaker 1: game like Fortnite, maybe pickle Rick or maybe it's not Fortnite.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but he was the pickle. He had

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Speaker 1: on green sunglasses. Lucy was a banana. She had on

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Speaker 1: yellow sunglasses. So this kid had on blue sunglasses. So

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Speaker 1: you say, doesn't matter if you say pink then you

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Speaker 1: say yellow. See. To me, that's something I would remember.

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Speaker 1: I would remember that. Even that would drive me over

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Speaker 1: the edge much less saying he was with his grandma.

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Speaker 1: Now he's with his mother. Now there may be a

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Speaker 1: way to explain that, because maybe they were both sitting

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Speaker 1: out on the stoop. Maybe, But if they were both

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Speaker 1: sitting out on the stoop and one left to go

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Speaker 1: get a snack. That leaves one out there with the baby.

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Speaker 1: So see, no matter how you slice that bread, half

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Speaker 1: a loaf is missing. Something is way wrong here, Hi, guys,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace here. I remember every night before I would

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Speaker 1: go to work at CNN hill In, I would bathe

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Speaker 1: the twins and that was a special time for me. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I would teach them their ABC's they're one, two threes.

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Speaker 1: Lucy would only eat dinner in the bathtub. I defeat

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Speaker 1: her dinner in the bathtub. I would give her one

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Speaker 1: full hour in John David one full hour. Then I

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Speaker 1: would actually go to work, so king wet. It was

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Speaker 1: one of the happiest times of my life. And I

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Speaker 1: guess that's why I gravitated to Emily Mason. Emily Mason

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Speaker 1: gorgeous young professor at a local college, Swainsburg, Georgia, East

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Speaker 1: George College. I traveled to Swainsboro to investigate her death,

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Speaker 1: and this is what I learnt. Emily was bathing her

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Speaker 1: two little girls in the type when someone came into

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Speaker 1: her home chased her from room to room. The last

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Speaker 1: thing her little girls ever heard from their mother was

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Speaker 1: Mommy running screaming for her life. Those are their vivid

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Speaker 1: last memories of Mommy. She was brutally murdered. And you

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Speaker 1: may ask where was her husband during all this? While

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Speaker 1: her husband, also a professor at East Georgia College PE

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Speaker 1: professor a pe coach, happened to be gone. He just

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Speaker 1: happened to leave for a local Walmart or home depot

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Speaker 1: or lows and in that short window of time he

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Speaker 1: comes home to find his wife dead in the home.

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Speaker 1: The children one's nonverbal could hardly describe a thing. What

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Speaker 1: happened to Emily Mason. Her story really has touched me.

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Speaker 1: The mystery surrounding the death, the brutal death of this

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Speaker 1: young mom, Emily Mason. This Saturday, we will be facebooking, instagramming,

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Speaker 1: and tweeting live throughout the episode. This Saturday Auction August seventeen,

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Speaker 1: six p m. Eastern, five Central. Please join us, Thanks friend.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: We are discussing the search for a four year old

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Speaker 1: little boy with a slight speech impediment and a lip

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Speaker 1: All sorts of a law were going off in my

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Speaker 1: head when I already had a limp. Then the grandmother's

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Speaker 1: on the front porch with a little boy, goes in

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Speaker 1: for a snack, comes out, he's gone. That it's the

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Speaker 1: mother says she was there to me. The facts are

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Speaker 1: getting murky. Then all the reporters are in the front

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Speaker 1: porch trying to reach them, and they're nowhere to be found.

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Speaker 1: Now I know where they were. It is with the

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Speaker 1: heavy heart that I stand before you. We have a

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Speaker 1: development in the case of four year old Malachi Lawson.

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Speaker 1: Last night, after extensive interviews with Malachi's mother, Alicia Lawson,

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Speaker 1: she confessed that her son was not missing, but deceased.

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Speaker 1: She subsequently gave detectives the location of the child's remains,

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Speaker 1: which were in the fifty five block of Hayden, Avenuel.

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Speaker 1: The biological mother, Alicia Lawson, and her partner would be

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Speaker 1: charged with child neglect resulting in the death of a

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Speaker 1: minor later this afternoon. The child's body has been transported

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Speaker 1: to the Medical Examiner's office, where an autopsy will be

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Speaker 1: performed to determine the exact cause of death. It should

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Speaker 1: be noted that the medical examiner's findings could bring about

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Speaker 1: additional charges after a review from the State's Attorney's office.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes I can hardly take it in or

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Speaker 1: feel like I can keep going when everyone the whole community,

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Speaker 1: and I'm giving them h double l about lighting candles,

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Speaker 1: but that's all they can do at that moment. They're

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Speaker 1: doing everything they can do trying to find this boy,

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Speaker 1: and the whole time, the mother, the biological mother, knows

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Speaker 1: the boy is dead. Take a listen to our friend

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Speaker 1: Pat Warren at w j Z thirteen. Either the cause

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Speaker 1: nor the circumstances of four year old Malachi Lawson's death

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Speaker 1: have been revealed yet, but police say that under questioning

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Speaker 1: last night, his mother admitted his death. After a two

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Speaker 1: day long search unt investigation, this is the ending no

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Speaker 1: one wanted. After extensive interviews with Malachi's mother, Alicia Lawson,

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Speaker 1: she confessed that her son was not missing, but deceased.

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Speaker 1: He was reported missing from his grandmother's house in the

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Speaker 1: forty five hundred block of Roger's Avenue in Northwest Baltimore

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Speaker 1: around three thirty Thursday. State police brought in a canine

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Speaker 1: unit to aid in the search, but Alicia Lawson's confession

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Speaker 1: brought the search to a close. She subsequently gave detectives

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Speaker 1: the location of the child's remains, which were in the

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Speaker 1: fifty five hundred block of Haydon Avenue. Lawson originally told

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Speaker 1: police she had left the boy alone on his grandmother's

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Speaker 1: porch on North Rogers Avenue and when she returned he

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Speaker 1: was gone. Investigators found Malachi's body in a dumpster with

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Speaker 1: signs of physical injury in a dumpster, in a dumpster.

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Speaker 1: The baby boy was in a dumpster. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friend at w jay z Rachel minute. Alicia

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Speaker 1: Lawson says when she woke up, she found Malachi quote,

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Speaker 1: laying in his bed in a puddle of wetness. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't responsive and she believed that he was dead. So

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Speaker 1: Lawson called a lift to take her to the fifty

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Speaker 1: five hundred block of Hayden That's where she placed Malachi

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Speaker 1: in a trash bag and placed him in a dumpster.

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Speaker 1: FBI agents obtained information from Lawson's cell phone that she

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Speaker 1: was searching for trash collection sites that same day. Alicia

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Speaker 1: and Fatigua Lawson are both charged with eleven counts, including

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Speaker 1: involuntary manslaughter, child abuse, and making full statements to the

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Speaker 1: police when I hear that story, it literally makes my skin.

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Speaker 1: I feel like cringing straight out to Crime online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Levi Page, what do we know about

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Speaker 1: how police get this confession? So they started becoming suspicious

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Speaker 1: when they found out that Alicia Lawson was on her

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Speaker 1: cell phone and was making searches before the nine one

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Speaker 1: one call was major report her son missing. She was

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Speaker 1: making searches looking for trash site dumpster sites. Okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait wait, waite, white, white, white, white, white, What did

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Speaker 1: you just say. She's doing searches for the locations of

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Speaker 1: where you could take trash and leave it where the

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Speaker 1: sanitation workers will pick up trash. She was looking for

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Speaker 1: different areas in Baltimore of where to put trash. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so they get that off her cell phone, searches on

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Speaker 1: her cell phone, Karen Smith, this is telling me a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's telling me that her story is such a line

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Speaker 1: number one when you again, let me go back to

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Speaker 1: John David. I'll never forget when he was at a

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Speaker 1: birthday party. He was four, and it was at a

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Speaker 1: professional gray basketball court, and he was running and he

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Speaker 1: dropped what he had in his hand. It was like

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Speaker 1: a ball or something and he was losing it. Instead

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Speaker 1: of trying to stop, he kept running after it. He fell.

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Speaker 1: He went airborne, believe it or not, I saw it

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Speaker 1: happen and hit his head. Came straight down on his head.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how he did it on that hardwood

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Speaker 1: floor his head immediately it was this huge thing on

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Speaker 1: his head. I immediately ran and grabbed him. We were

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Speaker 1: on the fourth floor. I couldn't wait for the elevator.

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00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: I carried him down four flights, ran to the car

426
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: into the emergency room. He ended up being in the

427
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: hospital for four days with a major concussion to his head.

428
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: I did not pause to consult my phone and start

429
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: looking things up. So that's one dynamic. But tell me

430
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: how do cops go through somebody's cell phone and find

431
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: things like this? Well, first of all, normally for a

432
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: cell phone you need to search warn In this case,

433
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be a problem. You have a missing boy

434
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: and you have an inconsistent story from the mother's boom.

435
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: When you go into a cell phone, the search history,

436
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: the cookies. We all see the little flags for this

437
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: site uses cookie won't fine, That's great, doesn't matter if

438
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: you accept it or not. Guess what it's in your phone,

439
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: it's in your computer. There's all kinds of data, timelines, timestamps,

440
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: and websites that are in your computer, and it's very

441
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: easy to find them. They're going to look at what

442
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: time she did the searches, what the websites were, where

443
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: she clicked over from those websites, and they are going

444
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: to use that to spin her story and show that

445
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: she had some kind of prefabricated idea about what she

446
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: was going to do. And of course the major issue,

447
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, the phone. Yes, I'm focused on that because

448
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: it's forensic evidence. But this child, Malachi Lawson's little body

449
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: joining you right now. Special guests out of South Carolina,

450
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: renown medical examiner doctor Michelle Duprey, author of Homicide Investigation

451
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: Field Guide, Doctor Duprey, if you had to estimate how

452
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: many autopsies have you done in your life? Oh wow, Nancy,

453
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: partly over three thousand. You know, I don't even know

454
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: how many cases I've prosecuted, investigated, taking a trial, or covered.

455
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: I can't even count them anymore. And it never esteem

456
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: of a case like this never goes away from me.

457
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: I don't know why. You know, just the other day

458
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: marked the day of my fiance's murder, and it hurt

459
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: so bad it never goes away, Just like this, the

460
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: four year old little boy, the mom taking him to

461
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: a trash dump in a lift that's like an uber Seriously,

462
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: doctor Duprie. They keep saying, we're waiting on the autopsy.

463
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: Waiting on the autopsy. Okay, good, good. Why Why do

464
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: I need to know we're waiting on the autopsy to

465
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: know this mother killed the boy? I mean, all I

466
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: need to know she took his body in a lift

467
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: to the dump that she was searching dumps on her

468
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: cell phone. Why do I have to wait on an autopsy?

469
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: First of all, you want to make it official. There

470
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: are many things that an autopsy can tell us. One

471
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: of the things that we look at is the severity

472
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: of the injuries. You always have to rule out could

473
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: this has been accidental? And I think from what we

474
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: know now, obviously not. And so we want to prove

475
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: that medically, legally and forensically, and that can help with

476
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: the charges that are brought against the perpetration crime stories

477
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, I just heard a lot of signs

478
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: from the police last night, A lot of cars and

479
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: tape out head Justin Robinson lives in the complex where

480
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: the child's body was found. They just messed up a

481
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: little kid. Y'are young, you know, it's hard to believe. Yeah,

482
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: I like you. Like this world. It's crazy out here,

483
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: That's what I was saying. Volunteers had been searching for

484
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: Malachi Lawson as if he were their own. This was

485
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: truly a community effort. Unfortunately, it's with a heavy heart

486
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: that we bring you this news about the death of

487
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: Malachi and about now the arrest of his mother and

488
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: her part. Twenty five year old Alicia and forty year

489
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: old Satika Losson are in police custody. They are charged

490
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: with neglect leading to depth of a child. Additional charges

491
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: may be determined. You may wonder why the reporters at

492
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: w j Z thirteen are saying neglect. Well, here's why.

493
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: Charging documents say that on Thursday, August first, Alicia Lawson

494
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: called police and said that her four year old son,

495
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: Malachi Lawson, was missing. After an extensive search using multiple

496
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: police resource is, even with the help from the States

497
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: Canine Unit, Malachi was nowhere to be found. The investigation

498
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 1: reveals that Alicia and Shatiga Lawson were bathing Malachi at

499
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: their home nine days before he was reported missing. That's

500
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: when they noticed severe burns to his entire lower body.

501
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: According to court documents, they could quote see skin from

502
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: his body floating in the water after they pulled him

503
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: from the bathtub. The couple decided to treat the wounds

504
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: at home and did not call nine one one or

505
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: seek any type of medical help for fear that Malachi

506
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: would be taken from them. You know what, I wanted

507
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: to pull my head set off because I knew what

508
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: she was about to say. But I'm not because I

509
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: would tell Jerry's that they could not turn away from

510
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: the facts, no matter what they were, that the mother

511
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: put the child in water so hot his skin peeled

512
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: off in the tub. To doctor Michelle Duprey, renowned medical examiner,

513
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: author of homicide investigation field Guy Dotor Dupree, tell me

514
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: what this means. There's a couple of questions I think

515
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: we need to ask. One if the water was so hot.

516
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: Normally a parent is going to test the love before

517
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: they do this, So that of water to be that

518
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: hot is extremely abnormal. Much water heaters don't want that

519
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: that hot, and to have the child in that water

520
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: for that long to cause the stint to feel. It's very, very,

521
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: very suspicious, you know. I'm just thinking again about the

522
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: twins when I run a bath for them. Now they

523
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: this makes me cry. Now they run their own whatever.

524
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: But when I would run a bath for them, I

525
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: would feel it, or even after I felt it, if

526
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: they put their toe in it, they get back out

527
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: because they don't. I like it really hot. They don't,

528
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: and would put in cold. But how could the child

529
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: not jump out if it was too hot? None of

530
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: this makes sense to me, and everywhere it takes my

531
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: mind is worse than what they're saying. And I'm just

532
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how the grandma went along if

533
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: she did with that original story. Now we're hearing he

534
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: was gone nine days straight out to Dave Mac joining

535
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: me along with Levi Page Dave Macrime online dot Com

536
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Dave Mac, what can you tell me about

537
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: cops testing the water in the home after they heard

538
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: the story? They actually reacted the same way you just did.

539
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: There's no way a mother could put a child in

540
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: a tubboat hot and keep them there, So they went

541
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: to test it out to make sure. And when they

542
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: turned the hot water on and filled the tub. It

543
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: never got past luke warm Letitia laws and claims that

544
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: the landlord came and fixed the hot water heater so

545
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: that it wouldn't get that hot anymore. But again another

546
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: lie and another unbelievable story. And the cops are just

547
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: testing everything out. They don't believe it. But that was

548
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: the end result. You know, I don't see how this

549
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: can not be a murder, because murder, one with life

550
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: or the death penalty, can be obtained in many, many

551
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: different ways. For instance, there can be premeditated murder where you,

552
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: let's just say, poison someone over a period of time,

553
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: Like every morning, Jackie doesn't like the coffee that I

554
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: make because it's instant and it's from Dollar Tree. No,

555
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: she would not let her precious tongue touch that she

556
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: brings her own. Fine, but what if I poisoned it

557
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: every day? Don't look at me like that, Just a

558
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: tiny bit every day until whoop, she kills over. That

559
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: is premeditated murder. Guess what. There's more than one way

560
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: to skin a cat. There's felony murder, such as a

561
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: mother who commits felony child abuse by putting their child

562
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: in a scalding hot tub and then the child dies

563
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: as a result of that abuse. She didn't intend to

564
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: kill the child, just abuse it horribly. That's felony murder.

565
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: That equals life or the death penalty. There's also abandoned

566
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: and malignant heart. Let me just go on. For instance,

567
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: when you drive through let's just say a flea market

568
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: at ninety miles an hour, your heart is so abandoned

569
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: to the risks to human life, you're deemed to have

570
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: a black and malignant heart that it's also murder and

571
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: you get the life or the death penalty. So, long

572
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: story short, there's a lot of ways this is not

573
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: going to be planed down. I don't see how this

574
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: is going to be planed down. And to Karen Smith,

575
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: forensics expert, Barebones Consulting founder, Karen explained to me this

576
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: whole death by hot water, Well, I think you've used

577
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: the legal term BS before, Nancy, and that's exactly what

578
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: this is. I had a case similar to this, and

579
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: the mother actually switched out the water heater and put

580
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: the old one in the driveway. Didn't have trash pick

581
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: up yet, so you know what I did. I went

582
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: out and I dusted for fingerprints on that hot water heater.

583
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: And there's a plate that you remove to get to

584
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: the temperature gage. And on that plate, guess his fingerprints

585
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: were on it? The mother, well, WHOA. If I had

586
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: not giving up cursing when the twins were born, I

587
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: would say, damn girl, that's smart. But since I gave

588
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: it up, I won't say that. Go ahead, but yeah,

589
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: that's what I would do in this case. Is that

590
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: plate and that temperature gauge, I would be dusting for prints.

591
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: I would be processing it and finding out if the

592
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: maintenance fans prints are on it. Great, go interview and

593
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: when did you change the temperature? And what was it

594
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: before you changed it? You take pictures of where it's

595
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: set now. Is there an area that has been worn

596
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: down where it was set before? If you look at

597
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: these minutia, you look at these small details because they

598
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: tell of story, Nancy, And the story in this case

599
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: is the mother is full of garbage and she needs

600
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: to be put away to lee my page where I

601
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: hate to even call her a mother because she does

602
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: not deserve that. Where is the mother and her partner

603
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: right now? They're behind bars? Nancy? And what's so frustrating

604
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: about this case is that she has a history with

605
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: Chop Protective Services. This child was removed from her care

606
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: when he was one years old and placed with a

607
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: foster mother. And I don't know what exactly the details are.

608
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: CPS is not releasing it, but we do know that

609
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: he had a broken femur bone when he was younger,

610
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: and from what I've read, that is a very difficult

611
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: bone to break, and I'm wondering if it had anything

612
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: to do with that. CPS is not releasing any details

613
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: on why he was removed. Oh yeah, I leave my page.

614
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: I just bet they aren't because they're going to be

615
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 1: busted for doing another bad job and another dead child

616
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: on their hands. CPS, what a joke. Child Protective Services.

617
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 1: I hate them. I hate them. I'm just just sick.

618
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: The moment I heard he walked with a limp, alarms

619
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: went off in my head. Here's the other thing I'm

620
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: sorry about. The death penalty was abolished in Maryland. Well,

621
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: I can say this, Mommy Rotten Hill, Nancy Gray crime story,

622
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: signing law, Goodbye Friend,