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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 1: name is Noel. They called me Ben and you are you,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: Today's podcast comes oddly enough, from a a pretty tasteless

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Speaker 1: joke that we made a while back, and I don't

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Speaker 1: remember if it made it to the air, did it

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Speaker 1: it did? Yeah, we were joking about the Oregon Trail

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Speaker 1: because someone suggested we we cover the topic of illegal

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Speaker 1: organ trafficking, which is a great suggestion. And then we

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Speaker 1: all died of dysentery. And then we all died of

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Speaker 1: dysentery in the middle of spoiler alert. Yeah, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: we were dumb enough to start the game as farmers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Then never do that way harder. But yeah, we were

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Speaker 1: kicking around, just terrible titles. Uh, and one of those was,

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Speaker 1: of course the organ Trail. Well if you say it

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Speaker 1: like that, yeah you can go either way. Well title aside,

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Speaker 1: this is I don't apologize for that title. I didn't

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Speaker 1: I just said title aside. Uh okay, so uh we

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Speaker 1: think this is a complex, global and continual phenomenon and

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Speaker 1: it is worth exploring in depth because, aside from some

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Speaker 1: maybe scare pieces that pop up at a slow day

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Speaker 1: in the news cycle, this is not really examined and

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Speaker 1: the causes of it aren't examined as well. There is

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff they don't want you to know

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Speaker 1: about organ transplants, the organ trade in general, what has

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Speaker 1: been called the red market. So I at first I

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask you guys, uh, Matt nol, those are

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Speaker 1: real names, sorry for everyone? Should we apologize for that one?

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. That's a good point.

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Speaker 1: So have have you, guys ever known or been acquainted

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Speaker 1: with someone who received an organ transplant? I could not

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Speaker 1: come up with a good example when I was going

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Speaker 1: back through my life. Um, if you count bone marrow,

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Speaker 1: which I think you should, yeah, then yes. I know.

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Speaker 1: It's an intense process as far as like getting on

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Speaker 1: a list, getting matched with the right candidate, and then

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Speaker 1: actually getting the procedure done and having everything booked because

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Speaker 1: it is a very timely process, you know, once everything

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Speaker 1: goes through, uh, And there's a lot of uncertainty, and

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Speaker 1: you even hear stories about people trying to get higher

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Speaker 1: up on the list by you know, greasing some poems

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Speaker 1: here and there, you know. I mean there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of steak obviously, and I won't say who this person was,

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Speaker 1: just to you know, maintain their their privacy, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was it was very nerve nerve wracking, just wondering

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Speaker 1: when it was gonna happen, when it was going to

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Speaker 1: go through, and when it did go through, if everything

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Speaker 1: was gonna work out correctly. Yeah, because even with everything

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Speaker 1: going as well as possible, there's still a there's still

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Speaker 1: a significant risk. And it's not like if that one

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Speaker 1: doesn't work out, they're just gonna give you another one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the one that you get, and then

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Speaker 1: if it doesn't look out, if you make it, and

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Speaker 1: you have to start the whole process over. So that

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Speaker 1: is a terrifying prospect. Let's let's talk about organs first, because,

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Speaker 1: as you know, this podcast is part of how stuff works,

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Speaker 1: so we want to start at the most basic thing. Organs.

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Speaker 1: They're one of the few things that everybody has in common.

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Speaker 1: Everyone who is involved with this show, we all have organs. Yes,

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Speaker 1: everyone listening to this show hopefully has organs. Maybe there's

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Speaker 1: some sort of machine consciousness listening there, and that gets

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Speaker 1: into a conversation about what would constitute and an organ. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe Dick Cheney is listening with his robotic heart that

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Speaker 1: just constantly circulates blood instead of pumping. That's a pacemaker.

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Speaker 1: That's not, isn't it. It's not. He doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: pacemaker anymore now, it's just a constant flow of blood.

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Speaker 1: There's no he has no heartbeat. Oh, I thought you

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Speaker 1: just meant he was like heartless individual. I thought you were. Well, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not riffing. This is true, but but I'm also

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Speaker 1: implying certain certain ways. There are levels to this statement. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I want one of those. I think Cheney charming personally.

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Speaker 1: That's true. You usually say that as soon as I'm smiling.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing it just just just for the folks listening.

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Speaker 1: I am doing a big Cheshire Cat grin here. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: I say things like I mean them, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: smiling or making a face that these guys and you

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Speaker 1: guys don't see that, so you may. I have quite

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Speaker 1: an odd variety of opinions out there in podcast LAMB,

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Speaker 1: but just to set the record straight. You know, Noel

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Speaker 1: Brown is a huge Dick Cheney fan. So by the

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Speaker 1: strictest definition and by in biology biologically speaking, outside the

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Speaker 1: world of music, an organ is just a group of

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Speaker 1: tissues in a living organism that have been adapted to

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Speaker 1: perform a specific function. Sounds simple. That, yeah, sounds pretty simple.

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Speaker 1: You have a heart, and your heart has like one

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Speaker 1: main job, right sure, same with your liver, your kidneys,

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Speaker 1: your eyes, all of the parts. I think there are

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Speaker 1: seventy eight official organs. Well by that by it depends

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Speaker 1: again on the definition and be around seventy eight. People

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Speaker 1: will argue back and forth what does or does not

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Speaker 1: constitute an organ entire. What I find meat though, is

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Speaker 1: that these organs are divided into two very distinct category

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Speaker 1: is um all the ones we mentioned are considered vital organs,

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Speaker 1: which are organs that are absolutely essential for maintaining your

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Speaker 1: health and you know, your life ultimately. Um. These are

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Speaker 1: the kinds of things like your heart, your brain, your kidneys,

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Speaker 1: your liver, things that perform processes that you need done

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Speaker 1: in order to live in the environment that we Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the besides the eyes I mentioned the eyes,

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Speaker 1: that's true, but I don't know, would you consider I

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Speaker 1: as part of this second category vestigial organs, which is yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I don't know, I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: you would probably get arguments for that. I suppose you

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Speaker 1: could say, maybe we could live in a society where

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Speaker 1: we have evolved beyond the need of our eyes, but

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Speaker 1: you'd certainly put you at a disadvantage. And right now,

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Speaker 1: society has evolved to make something like blindness or deafness, uh,

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Speaker 1: not a death sentence. But if people were simply animals

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Speaker 1: in a wild unter gatherer type scenario like you might

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Speaker 1: be sunk, would be it would it would be more

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Speaker 1: different gold for sure, And that's that's one of the

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Speaker 1: that's one of the great benefits of the human, the

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Speaker 1: whole human experiment. Right, But well, let's talk about these

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Speaker 1: other organs, at least vestigil right, vestigial organs, this would

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Speaker 1: be something that is a rudimentary structure in us that

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Speaker 1: corresponds to a functional structure in another animal. Right, sometimes

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Speaker 1: described as the lower animals, which I think is hugely

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Speaker 1: condescending and unfair. But we have all kinds of examples

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Speaker 1: of this, right, What about things like tonsils? Are like

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Speaker 1: an appendix. Yeah, wisdom teeth or maybe a tail. Yes,

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Speaker 1: people are born sometimes to the tail, perhaps male nipples.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm so tired of like. It used to

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Speaker 1: really bother me. It's like, why are these here? Is

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Speaker 1: there no purpose? You guys aren't using them right, I

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Speaker 1: mean not like right now. No, I'm just saying you're

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Speaker 1: not using them correctly. Oh, I see, we're a family show.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys see I just really fast? Did you

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Speaker 1: see the article about the Atlanta Native couple? Uh? Josh

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Speaker 1: and Chuck posted this quick thing of a woman who

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Speaker 1: left her job to find a male partner, oh, to

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Speaker 1: to breast feat feed at like adults. And this is

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Speaker 1: apparently a huge thing. Is it like a like a

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Speaker 1: fetishy thing? I think it is. Yeah, But he doesn't

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Speaker 1: have some sort of strange disorder that makes him some

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Speaker 1: sort of breast milk vampire. Does she like have to

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Speaker 1: burp him and stuff? I don't know, but but I

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Speaker 1: did some looking into this story, and it appears that

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Speaker 1: there's a whole counterculture of people who do this, who

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Speaker 1: believe that there are massive health benefits for both parts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are people who say that their health benefits. Yet

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Speaker 1: and perhaps that is an episode for another day. And

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Speaker 1: perhaps perhaps you are right, and hey, it's tough to

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Speaker 1: be happy, so I wish them the best of luck.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it's consensual returning to organs. So we've

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Speaker 1: got these things, we need many of them. There's some

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Speaker 1: that we don't particularly need need to live, right, You

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Speaker 1: can go without a kidney both, you could go without

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Speaker 1: wisdom teeth. What do you do when the important ones fail?

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Speaker 1: The ones that are not like add on packages to

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Speaker 1: the car that is your body, but the stuff that's

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Speaker 1: like the engine and the transmission. Well, for thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of years, when people's organs failed, they died. Yep.

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Speaker 1: That was it, sometimes quickly, sometimes and prolonged, excruciatingly painful

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Speaker 1: ways the human body. To bring it to our current

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Speaker 1: capitalist society, the human body was a product with planned obsolescence,

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Speaker 1: no warranties and no returns, no exchanges either. And that's

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Speaker 1: not to say that over the years, throughout history, medical

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Speaker 1: science hasn't been attempting to replace these things in dying

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Speaker 1: humans when their their heart is giving out, or their

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Speaker 1: liver is dying or something like that. We've attempted humans

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Speaker 1: many times to try and replace these things. Yeah, not

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Speaker 1: you knowlan me, but fellow members of our species have

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Speaker 1: been experimenting with oregan transplants since at least the seventeenth century,

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Speaker 1: and animals and in humans, and along the way there

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Speaker 1: were many, many, many gruesome, horrific and tragic failures. A

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Speaker 1: lot of them we don't even know about because they

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Speaker 1: were never written down, right, but we do have early examples. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like in sixteen sixty, um, a bone graft was attempted

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Speaker 1: using a dog's skull and actually successfully attached this graph

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Speaker 1: to a humans head. Yeah, yeah, we see the animal transplants,

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Speaker 1: the practice of putting animal components into a human body,

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Speaker 1: where um, we're not unheard of. I mean at the time,

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Speaker 1: it probably seemed like a logical jump to make, you know,

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Speaker 1: why not, let's just give it a shot. And that

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Speaker 1: could have also been at the what if stage. Yeah sure,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're getting desperate trying to save somebody, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and if someone is on their last legs, you try anything,

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Speaker 1: and in that desperation. In nineteen o five, uh, there

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Speaker 1: were some doctors who took slices of a rabbit kidney.

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Speaker 1: They put it into a child and it did seem

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Speaker 1: to improve kidney function at least for a little while. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the child did die shortly after that from all from

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Speaker 1: pulmonary congestion. Right. And then in the same year nineteen

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Speaker 1: o five, doctors manage to transplant a cornea into the

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Speaker 1: damaged die of a laborer restoring his site. That's that,

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Speaker 1: to me is crazy to think about in nine o five,

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Speaker 1: like any kind of eye surgery back then, that's like

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Speaker 1: buying a lottery tickets every day for a week and winning. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then in nineteen and six we have a French surgeon,

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Speaker 1: Matteo Jubile, who attempted to save two patients lives they

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Speaker 1: were suffering from renal failure by transplanting goat kidney into

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Speaker 1: one of the patients and a pig kidney into the other,

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Speaker 1: and they died shortly there after work. And I think

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Speaker 1: what the big takeaway is from a lot of these

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Speaker 1: early examples is that these organs are incredibly specific. They

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Speaker 1: and this just goes into the whole idea of being

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Speaker 1: on a transplant list or like getting you have to

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Speaker 1: get just the right one, has to match your blood type,

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Speaker 1: has to There are a lot of factors involved that

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Speaker 1: you know, will make this work, otherwise your body will

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Speaker 1: literally reject this organ right in this There were other

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Speaker 1: attempts through the thirties and on and on and with

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Speaker 1: each of these, uh, with each of these failures that

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Speaker 1: were hard lessons learned, and it looked like it maybe

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Speaker 1: it might be something that was just going to be

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Speaker 1: beyond the bounds of reliable medical technology and science at

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Speaker 1: least that is until the first successful oregan transplant in

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Speaker 1: December of nineteen fifty four. Yeah, it was this guy

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Speaker 1: named Ronald Herrick. He was the first one. He had

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Speaker 1: a successful transplant procedure. Pretty awesome, Um, it was. It's

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Speaker 1: a cool story to actually and and there's a house

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works article on organ donation where you can find

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Speaker 1: this story. Um. He he had a twin brother named Richard,

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Speaker 1: and one of his you know, his kidneys were failing,

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Speaker 1: and his brother basically decided, well, what if I give

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Speaker 1: one of my kidneys? And the doctor saw this was

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Speaker 1: really interesting because it hadn't been successful in the past,

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Speaker 1: but because their genetics were so close almost identical, uh,

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Speaker 1: they thought perhaps it would work. So the doctors didn't

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Speaker 1: have much faith that this would actually be carried out,

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Speaker 1: even though, you know, they have faith in themselves and

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Speaker 1: being able to make the procedure happen. They don't think

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Speaker 1: it will. The organ itself will take. The great thing

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Speaker 1: is that it did work. Both of them survives, and

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Speaker 1: they went on to live happily ever after. Right or

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Speaker 1: did they? Yeah? I mean that part. We're kidding on

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Speaker 1: that part. No one does that. But they did. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they did great. They both recovered at least downer you are, sir, Uh, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm more what's a what's a word for downer?

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Speaker 1: And that starts with a B? So we can do

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Speaker 1: it like a m benjie bad attitude. That's pretty good. No,

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Speaker 1: that's terrible. Well that's why you're You're right. You're absolutely right,

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Speaker 1: and there's no reason to be down, is there? Because

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Speaker 1: this worked very well and after this watershed moment, more

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Speaker 1: and more successful transplants took place. So today, at least

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Speaker 1: in the US and really globally, if you are someone

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Speaker 1: with enough money and enough luck and enough opportunity, you

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Speaker 1: really can get a second chance at life with a

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Speaker 1: new organ. We cannot emphasize how amazing this is and

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Speaker 1: how technology is still since I'm gonna try to be

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Speaker 1: positive for their podcast. I appreciate it. You know, uh,

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Speaker 1: we still know that this medical technology continues to evolve

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Speaker 1: at a breakneck pace, you know, doing amazing things. If

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Speaker 1: a child, for a child born today the day you're

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Speaker 1: hearing this, by the time they are eighteen, and is

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Speaker 1: quite possible that they will be able to buy uh

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Speaker 1: grown organs grown in a lap, not taken from another person,

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Speaker 1: or to take possibly organs from genetically modified animals or

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Speaker 1: entirely entirely synthetic things. However, we're not there yet at

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Speaker 1: this point. Your best the best and only way that

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Speaker 1: you can get another organ is by getting it from

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Speaker 1: another person. Many people volunteer to donate their own organs,

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Speaker 1: like the twin we mentioned earlier, either a kidney or

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Speaker 1: you know, you can live with one kidney like you said, no,

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Speaker 1: you can chop a liver almost in half and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and will regenerate almost as full size. Or if you

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Speaker 1: are a person with the driver's license in the US,

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Speaker 1: you are incentivized to be an organ donor because you

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Speaker 1: get a little discount. And what they do is they

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Speaker 1: just say, well, if the worst thing happens, the worst

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Speaker 1: thing for you, at least then something great might happen

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Speaker 1: for some other people, which is a pretty terrifying thought.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, if you're dead,

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Speaker 1: depending on your religious and spiritual beliefs, then hey, who cares,

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Speaker 1: somebody else can use it. You can't take him with you,

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Speaker 1: you know. And arguably you could say this is a

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Speaker 1: form of extending someone's life if you are if a

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Speaker 1: piece of you lives on in someone else. Absolutely, the

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Speaker 1: pharaohs of Egypt would probably disagree though. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: had all of their organs pulled out and put into

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Speaker 1: jars and preserved in their tombs, you know, so that

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Speaker 1: they could have them in the after life, and that

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Speaker 1: was part of the that was part of the belief

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Speaker 1: system at the time, you know. And there there's still

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Speaker 1: some there's still some religions and belief systems that do

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Speaker 1: not allow for Oregon donation, like the Roma don't practice

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Speaker 1: it because they believe you need your physical body and

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Speaker 1: all its components for at least the first year, because

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Speaker 1: you have to retrace your steps. And now we know

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Speaker 1: not Now we know that this this stuff does work.

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Speaker 1: It gives the average person a chance to be a

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Speaker 1: hero and should be quite candid. This is a situation

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Speaker 1: where people need heroes. Between two thousand and eight, there

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Speaker 1: were more than thousand living donations. It's donations from somebody

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Speaker 1: who gave theory will survive after UH. In two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six, nearly forty six percent of organ donors were

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Speaker 1: living donors, So that accounts for about twenty one point

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Speaker 1: six percent of all organs donated. So like Matt's Matt,

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Speaker 1: you said, you can donate part of your liver and live,

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Speaker 1: and donate part of a lung, part of your pancreas.

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Speaker 1: You can donate a whole kidney or a part of

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Speaker 1: your intestines. You do have to be in pretty darn

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Speaker 1: good health to make a donation like this. Oh, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is true that there are only a few prohibitive

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Speaker 1: factors that could stop you certain diseases, being HIV positive

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Um, but you know, still, I

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Speaker 1: don't think anyone would want my liver. Probably, Ben, do

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Speaker 1: we have a stat about how often direct family members

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Speaker 1: are the ones that are doing this donation, because that

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Speaker 1: would just seems to me that would sure save a

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Speaker 1: lot of this this process to write these lists and

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Speaker 1: the waiting list of search for compatibility, Well, we don't

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Speaker 1: have that exactly, but we do know according to the

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Speaker 1: American Transplant Foundation that of about five thousand living donations

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Speaker 1: that occur that they watched, only one in four of

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Speaker 1: the donors was not biologically related to the recipient, at

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Speaker 1: least from their perspective. Interesting, it's not. It's not legal

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Speaker 1: to buy or sell organs here in the US for transplant,

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Speaker 1: but it is legal to buy and sell them for

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Speaker 1: research purposes. So as long as you say, well, sorry,

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Speaker 1: uncle Sam, this is not for me. I am doing

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Speaker 1: a science project. And we've got a couple more stats

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Speaker 1: if you want. According to the Department of Health and

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Speaker 1: Human Services, more than two thousand new names are added

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Speaker 1: to the national waiting list for oregan transplants. And to

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Speaker 1: get that's every month and every day, the day you

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Speaker 1: are listening to this podcast, Ladies and gentlemen, in the

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Speaker 1: US alone, about eighteen people die while waiting for an

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Speaker 1: oregan transplant. So these people, these voluntary donors, living or dead,

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Speaker 1: are doing terrific, wonderful, and much needed work, and we

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Speaker 1: need more. But here's the thing, not all of these

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Speaker 1: donors are volunteers. As it turns out, quite a few

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Speaker 1: of them are victims, and we'll get more into that

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Speaker 1: after we take a quick break. So, as you can

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Speaker 1: tell from the statistics we covered earlier everything that we've

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Speaker 1: talked about thus far, the need for organs far outweighs

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Speaker 1: the supply for organs. And what happens then there is

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Speaker 1: a basically a gulf that needs to be filled. And

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Speaker 1: as we know, when there's money to be made, people

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Speaker 1: are gonna come along and fill that golf. Yeah, when's

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Speaker 1: when supply demand don't meet, there's gonna be profit. And uh,

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Speaker 1: that's what we see, and the question becomes existential. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? This is this is not well,

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Speaker 1: I steal a Selca or an a Lantra from someone

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Speaker 1: because I want a Selca or a Lancha, or God

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Speaker 1: forbid a Honda Odyssey, which is not worth it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is a question of survival. If you are sitting

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Speaker 1: next to someone listening to this, and you're close to

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Speaker 1: that person, look at each other. What would you do

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Speaker 1: to keep them alive? Would you donate your kidney? If

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Speaker 1: given the opportunity, would you find them a heart? The

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00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,959
Speaker 1: average heart will beat approximately two point five billion times

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Speaker 1: in the course of an average person's life, So now

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00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: you need to start thinking about the age of this

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Speaker 1: heart you would procure, because honestly, you'll get more mileage

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Speaker 1: the younger that transplant source is. Well, it's true. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: it's true, and let's be honest. This is just my

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Speaker 1: personal opinion here. Some of the results of this come

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Speaker 1: about because the American medical system is a joke without

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Speaker 1: a punchline. People are dying due to UM due to

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Speaker 1: a phenomenally byzantine system of jacked up prices for operations

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Speaker 1: and medicines that would be affordable in many other countries.

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Speaker 1: This is again, that is just my opinion, but they're

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Speaker 1: there are numerous facts that point to UM that that

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Speaker 1: point to a very poor performance on the part of

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Speaker 1: the US medical system in comparison to the rest of

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Speaker 1: the developed world. I mean, if we are considering the

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Speaker 1: entire population, we're only considering the people who can pay

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Speaker 1: the price tag, then the US medical system is the

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Speaker 1: best in the world. Look at the examples. You see

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Speaker 1: if people that you know are in the hospital for

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Speaker 1: three or four days and then their insurance gets cut

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Speaker 1: off or like you know, the it's maxes out and

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Speaker 1: they're left with like a ten thousand dollar bill, for

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Speaker 1: being in the hospital for a few days just so

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Speaker 1: they can breathe, or of course, right and then be

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Speaker 1: in debt for the rest of their lives or bankrupts. Right,

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Speaker 1: So this I mean, and that maybe is a sub

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Speaker 1: I know, it's a touch of one for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. So that will perhaps be a subject of

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Speaker 1: a future show. I don't know what you guys think.

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Speaker 1: And of course we can anticipate the arguments people say, well,

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Speaker 1: medical care is not free. That is true, and that's

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Speaker 1: something we can explore in a future episode. Right now,

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Speaker 1: In the case of kidneys, which are by far one

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Speaker 1: of the most common organs transplanted donated harvested traffic, only

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Speaker 1: seventeen percent of the annual demand is being met, and

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Speaker 1: due to again skyrocketing medical cost the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: US citizens have virtually no way of affording a living donor.

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Speaker 1: So make no mistake, legal organ transplants, like many other operations,

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Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly out of the reach of a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention, maybe you're just so far down the list.

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Speaker 1: It's just the this is not on your side. People

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Speaker 1: will do desperate things in times of this kind of stress. Yeah,

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00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: that's a really good point, because even if we're talking

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Speaker 1: about people who have enough capital or income to to

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Speaker 1: have the best medical care in the world, right and

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Speaker 1: maybe survive as long as they can on the list,

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Speaker 1: then there's some things you know, you just can't legally buy.

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Speaker 1: So imagine, imagine, Matt, that you are a multimillionaire but dope,

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Speaker 1: but you can't you can't afford this legal avenue, and

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Speaker 1: that leaves you with two options. Yeah, I guess I

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Speaker 1: would die or I would find a way to get one.

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Speaker 1: Guess which one people tend to choose. I'm guessing they

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Speaker 1: just take kidneys. According to the u N, there are

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Speaker 1: three broad categories of organ trafficking. Number one our cases

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00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: involving track lookers that force or actually deceive victims into

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Speaker 1: giving up an organ. Example might be persons kidnapped, their

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00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: organ is harvested, or or the this this is the

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00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: one that everyone knows from movies. Right. You meet a

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00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: charming stranger, a great cool guy or girl, or group

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00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: of people, and you party a little harder than you intended,

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00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, yeah, you wake up

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00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: in a tub of ice in the hotel and there's

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00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: some staples on your side. That's shilling Um. Well, I

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00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: talked to you guys about this before the show, the

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00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: movie Sympathy from Mr. Vengeance. I think this is a

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00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: it's a really really dark movie. It's beautifully made them

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00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 1: but for kids. But it involves this very thing Um,

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00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: and it points to some of the conditions that might

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00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: lead someone to enter into an even an agreement with

415
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: these type of folks. Where one of the main characters

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00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 1: has a sister who needs I believe it's a kidney,

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00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: and she's on this waiting list but it's not working

418
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: out and it's taking too long and she's not doing well.

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00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: So the main character UM finds these gangsters and agrees

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00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: with them, like, Okay, I'm gonna you're gonna take out

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00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: my kidney and we're going to do the operation. Instead,

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00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: they knocked him out, take his kidney and his money,

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00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: and disappear, right. And this this is common enough to

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00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: be a trope in a lot of fiction as far

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00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: as how often it actually happens that way in real life,

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00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: it's it's tough to fresh proof. But that's not the

427
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: only case. You said. There are three categories, right, So

428
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: the second category involves cases where victims formally or informally

429
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: agree to sell an organ and then are cheated out

430
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: of money. So the thing for the film is almost

431
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: a combination of the two. Are then cheated out of

432
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: the money or paid less than promised and threatened, um,

433
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: you know totally, you'll take what we give you exactly.

434
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: You're lucky to leave with your life. I mean, that's

435
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: the thing. These are um opportunistic, manipulative folks that are

436
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: that are doing these things. They are finding people in

437
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: their time of need, their time of most desperation, and

438
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, turning the screws on the criminals. Yeah. Well,

439
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: and sometimes it even does happen voluntarily where someone will

440
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: fly to Turkey or something to give their their kidney

441
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: four or five thousand dollars, you know, four ten thousand

442
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: dollars US. Meanwhile, the person who is taking the kidney

443
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: is going to make ten times that, twenty times that. Yeah,

444
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: And as as as problematic as Ben said, as as

445
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: are medical system is at least you do have some

446
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: assurances and you know everything's documented and you know, nothing

447
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: like that would ever happen, and hopefully your chances of

448
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: survival are much higher because it's cleaner and they're they're

449
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: better standards for care. But there's there's another thing that

450
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: to see here. We I don't want to jump ahead

451
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: too far other than to say there is a vast

452
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: criminal element to this. And this is something that happens.

453
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: Whenever something is illegal and people are going to do,

454
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: there will be, as you said, no opportunistic people involved.

455
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: Imagine having a gambling debt. You're in over your head,

456
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: you have no hope of paying this off within the

457
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: time allotted to you. And then well, no, let's say

458
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: I have a gambling debt to you. Let's say, what's

459
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: a massive amount of money to oh for gambling? One

460
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: million dollars? Okay, So I had a wild night in Macau,

461
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: and now I owe you, the uh, the shadowy leader

462
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: of the underworld, one million dollars. And you told me

463
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: I have forty eight hours, our forty seven. And I'm dragged,

464
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, in into whatever palatial place you have, uh

465
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: And and then you make it very clear that you're

466
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: you're fine with killing me, but but you give me

467
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: a chance. You tell me I can give up you know,

468
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: my kidney or part of my lunger, my liver. And

469
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: of course people are going to say yes to something

470
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: like that it's horrific, but they will. And then there's

471
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: the third case, which to me is one of the saddest.

472
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: I have to say, guys, in this example, it would

473
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: be it would make a lot more sense if it

474
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: was maybe a hundred thousand dollars, because they would make

475
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: that if you own a million dollars, Yeah, they would

476
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: just kill me and take and harvest because they could.

477
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: They could pretty much make that from your entire body.

478
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: I would go to the chop shop. Yikes, don't do it. No,

479
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: don't do it. I mean I've never started gambling. I've

480
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: never gambled, and I don't intend to start now because

481
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: I am frightened by this scenario. No, it's true. I

482
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: mean even you know I I've played some slots here

483
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: and there, but I don't think I could ever know that.

484
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: I thought you were about to say, No, it's true.

485
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: I guess I would have to do that. Well, you know,

486
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: when faced with that situation and I have to take

487
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: care of my investment. Oh yeah, ice cold, I respect

488
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: you though. Number three, this is perhaps one of the saddests. Yes.

489
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: The third example is when a vulnerable person receives treatment

490
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: for some ailment. Perhaps it's real. Perhaps it's not only

491
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: to find when they come out of surgery or whatever

492
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: procedure they went through, they find that one or more

493
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: of their organs have been removed during the operation, and

494
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: it ranges from what organs are taken in this procedure um.

495
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: And this is one of the more terrifying. I mean,

496
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: these are all terrifying, but this one to me. Trusting

497
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: someone going into a surgery or something like that only

498
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: to find that something completely different has happened. Yikes. We're

499
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: talking about completely disenfranchised people that have no recourse, migrant workers,

500
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: homeless people, the impoverished, the illiterate. They are just easy

501
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: targets for these folks who want to prey on the

502
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: fact that they have no one to protect them. And

503
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: they can be any age, they can be any you know,

504
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: create race, ethnicity, whatever sort of label you want to

505
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 1: attach to an example of the human species, as long

506
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: as they got the goods and by that I mean kidneys, livers,

507
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: any of these organs that are you know, ultimately pretty

508
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: easy to remove in a bench, which is horrifying in

509
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: and of itself, especially when you consider that you know,

510
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: these are not done in sanitary conditions. These are not

511
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: done in clean rooms, you know, well yeah, and the

512
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: fact that they could be removed and then you can

513
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: still live depending on how you were treated after and

514
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: what type of process they took to actually remove it

515
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: and then fix you up, which is that to me

516
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: is awful. Can imagine living after that just happening to

517
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: you the PTSD that you would experience in your life.

518
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: I personally would be thrilled to be alive, sure, because

519
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: think of the time and money you save if you're

520
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: working with volume on sutures, on cleaning up. You know,

521
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: are you saying I mean, I'm trying to just figure

522
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: out why it's in their best interest to leave these

523
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: people alive in the first place. I think that a

524
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: lot of it is because it is a transaction, you know.

525
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: So if it's a transaction, then it's ultimately a business

526
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: and if the business model is uh, you know, if

527
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: you established consistency, people will only come back to you

528
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: or only go pay you if they know they're going

529
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: to live. So if we're around the street turns out

530
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: that you just kill people and take their organs, which

531
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: we do have cases of that, then people aren't going

532
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: to go to you with their gambling debts or their

533
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: um blood money of one sort or another. And and okay,

534
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: so we said earlier that sidneys make up of this

535
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: illegal organ trade, But do you know why it's It's

536
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: not just because you can take one and sell, although

537
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge part of it. It's also

538
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: because of the rising rates of diabetes, high blood pressure,

539
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: heart problems and such in across the globe. So you

540
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: need those the filtration system that are the kidneys which

541
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: are failing across the board. And for everyone who might

542
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: think this is this is a strange thing for us

543
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: to cover, we would argue that this is an example

544
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: of not one, but multiple international conspiracies, not theories. And again,

545
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: a conspiracy just means people working together in secret toward

546
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: a common goal. Organized crime necessitates conspiracies. This involves recruiters,

547
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: people who transport the patient, underground, medical staff, middleman contractors, buyers,

548
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 1: and banks that store the organs because remember, organs don't

549
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: keep And a lot of people throughout the history of

550
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: oregan transplants have died because an oregan was pulled from

551
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: a cadaver that have been dead for hours. You know.

552
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: So this stuff is on ice and and on the

553
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: good side. On the legal side, there's this amazing logistics

554
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: chain of how to of how people move an organ

555
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: and keep it stored on ice across the country or

556
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: across the ocean to save someone's life. And this can

557
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: be a good thing. It can be a good thing

558
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: for the for the law side. The problem is because

559
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: these networks are so large, when they get exposed, it

560
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: will a lot of times be one arm or one

561
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: one section of a network, and you never really get

562
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: to see the larger picture because you know, when you're

563
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: operating underground like this, you just pick up shop and

564
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: get out of there if there isn't a good paper trail. Right, Yeah,

565
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: So let's talk about some facts about organ trafficking. So

566
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: I'll start with one. Organ trafficking accounts for five to

567
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: ten percent of all kidney transplants worldwide. Mind blowing to me.

568
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: That's like saying, uh, a llegal car sales account for

569
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: ten percent of all cars purchased in you know, in

570
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: the U s Or he just wouldn't ever associate that.

571
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. And according to the w h OH,

572
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: the World Health Organization, the illegal trade and kidneys has

573
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: risen to a level that an estimated ten thousand. Black

574
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: market operations involving purchased human organs now take place every year,

575
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: and according to a couple of organizations organ Failure Solutions,

576
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: Organs Watch and e s O T, the typical organ

577
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: donor as a male about twenty eight point nine, let's

578
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: say twenty nine years old, with an annual income of

579
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: four hundred and eighty dollars, while the typical recipient is

580
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: a male of about forty eight point one years old

581
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: with an annual income of fifty three thousand dollars. So

582
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: the discrepancy there between the donor and the recipient is

583
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: pretty telling. And organs aren't just used for transplants. There's

584
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: a demand for illicit experimentation from unethical scientists. Think of

585
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: these as the modern version of resurrection men robber threat

586
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: resurrection men were grave robbers, especially in during a time

587
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: when it was legal to experiment on cadavers for med

588
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: schools and stuff, but it was illegal to procure the bodies.

589
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: So that's a chilling but not entirely inaccurate comparison. And

590
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: then of course there are there are other body parts

591
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: such as bones or genitalia that are used for uh

592
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: magical rituals and the profit margins here can be outrageous.

593
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: In July of two thousand nine, Levy Itsac Rosenbaum was

594
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: arrested in Brooklyn for conspiring to arrange the sale of

595
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: an Israeli citizens kidney to an undercover FBI agent for

596
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty thousand dollars. He said he'd been

597
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: selling kidneys for ten years underground. He paid ten thousand

598
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: for a kidney and sold it for a hundred and

599
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: sixty thousand. And there are an unsettling number of examples

600
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: of at least parts of networks that have been exposed to.

601
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: Al Jazeera really recently put out a story, i think

602
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: in the February about a small syndicate in Indonesia in

603
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: this place called Java, West Java, where this really small

604
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: village that had a population of thirty people uh a

605
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: large number of them sold their kidneys or for around

606
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars each um, and it was being run

607
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: out of a state hospital. It really crazy stuff like that,

608
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: just some bad people who are working with a couple

609
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: other bad people inside a state run organization. A story

610
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: from the Guardian in two thousand nine discussed how some

611
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: some pathologists in Israel were harvesting organs from Palestinians and

612
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: several others thousand the ninety nineties. It has ended officially

613
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: at least, which is nice. And if you search for

614
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: this kind of the stuff, just just put Oregon Harvesting

615
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: Network into you know, Google, and then click on the

616
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: news column and just go back, and it's prevalent. There's

617
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: a lot of it. And in neither of the cases

618
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: that met just mentioned, neither in Indonesia nor in Israel

619
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: were these state sanctioned things. These were underground cabals operating

620
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: and then they were eventually exposed. And that's almost always

621
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: how it is, except in the People's Republic of China

622
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: and the People's Republic of China, you can see numerous

623
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: accusations that say the government itself is harvesting organs from

624
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: executive prisoners, or, as claimed in a PBS documentary from

625
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen, that the government is actually collecting organs

626
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: from live prisoners or practitioners of a spiritual group uh

627
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: of a spiritual belief system called Falling Gong. The idea

628
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: here is that China is arbitrarily imprisoning this minority religious

629
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: group and then torturing them, killing them selling their organs,

630
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: getting rich off what's called transplant tourism. Yep. And and

631
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: again you can find it in the US, you can

632
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: find it in Brazil and South Africa. It's this practice

633
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: is occurring all over the globe. So you guys, why

634
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: is the still going on? Why is this still so prevalent.

635
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: I would say there's several reasons. One of the big

636
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: ones would be, uh, demand, And if we're saying demand,

637
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: what we need to look at will be the precipitous

638
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: rise of health conditions in the you know what, in

639
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: the world entire because there's this big stereotype of terribly

640
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: unhealthy Americans, right Uh, that stereotype has some truth in it.

641
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: One in nine or twenty six million Americans have kidney

642
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: disease and most probably don't know it. But obesity and

643
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: diabetes and related things are on the rise in the

644
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: developing world as well, So there are more people with

645
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: worse parts. And I think as long as that situation continues,

646
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: until we can grow stuff in a vat, until we

647
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: can all live a more healthy lifestyle. And I have

648
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: not volunteering, by the way, because I'm setting my ways

649
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: and they are terrible. Until we can iron man or

650
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: chainey up some some suitable technological or mechanical replacement. The problem,

651
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 1: the problem with this stuff been is that it's still

652
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: going to favor those that are wealthy because it will

653
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: cost money. It's a service either. You know, it's not

654
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: easy to remove an organ and put it back in

655
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: for sure. And as we start to develop, you know,

656
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: more high tech ways of doing this, whether it's lab

657
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: grown or what have you, it's gonna be like these

658
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: hypothetical situations with life extension technology. Who is that going

659
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: to be for? It's going to be for the upper class,

660
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: which is the class that is basically in control. That's

661
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: a harrowing point because on the surface, the legal organ trade,

662
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: at least if you if you look at the rules

663
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: of the guidelines for the list, they say that this

664
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: a person's placement on the list is evaluated by factors

665
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: that are entirely biologically related severity of illness, time spent waiting,

666
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: blood type, match potential, and UH. At least according to

667
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: American Transplant Foundation, income, race, and social status are never

668
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: taken into account in the allocation process, which sounds like

669
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing until you take into account means to

670
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: move yourself up on that list that aren't necessarily proven,

671
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: but you know, colluding with someone who controls the list,

672
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,919
Speaker 1: or staying or or you know, the means to participate

673
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: in this illegal market which is making hundreds of million,

674
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars minimum, probably more than an

675
00:43:53,400 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: estimated billion. And also also it's tough to find these

676
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: sorts of rings and wipe them out entirely. You know,

677
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: people's survival instinct is good. The money it's just so profitable, right,

678
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: and these are people often operating across international boundaries. So

679
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: at this point, at that at this point, regardless of

680
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: the various solutions to the various causes for this sort

681
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: of situation, it just that it doesn't seem to be

682
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: going away. This is really tough because in a lot

683
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: of the black markets that we've looked at in the past,

684
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: it seems as though the legalization of whatever product that

685
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: is being sold can kind of solve that black market

686
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: because it then becomes a free market thing, right, But

687
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: with this situation, you can't really legalize just the voluntary

688
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: donation and receiving of organs from other humans at least

689
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: I can't foresee away. Well, they just a lot is

690
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: left up to chance. When you go the legal route,

691
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: and it almost seems like the illegal route, you might

692
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: be more likely to at least have the perception that

693
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: you're going to get what you need, you know, with

694
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: about having to jump through as many hoops or weight

695
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: as long, and you know, have less uncertainty, and you

696
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: could even hypothetically higher an entire network, so you could

697
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 1: get the level of care that you would expect from

698
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: a you know, from a top notch hospital if you

699
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: just by a doctor and her his services for this

700
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: one thing, if you just contracted out, it would cost

701
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money. But if a new kidney

702
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: gives you another nine years of life, a lot of

703
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: people would see that as a as a fair trade,

704
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm sure that a lot of the

705
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: people who are participating in this illegal organ trafficking are

706
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: also doing it without of desperation and are not monstrous people,

707
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: you know, they they are. Possibly maybe it's more like

708
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,479
Speaker 1: a matchmaking thing where they meet someone who wants money,

709
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: and they have the money, and they say, okay, here,

710
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: let's make a deal. Maybe it is. It may well

711
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: be consensual many times, but also many times it is not. Yeah,

712
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: because we also we've seen that this matches up with

713
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: the act of human trafficking as well, right, I mean

714
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: where people will be treated like cattle and taken to

715
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: another place where this will happen to them. It's been

716
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 1: reported on a lot by the u N how closely

717
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: linked human trafficking and organ trafficking is. So you know,

718
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: it's it's weird how far ranging this this process or

719
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: how how much it encompasses. It's also one of these

720
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: kind of devil's bargain scenarios where you don't really know

721
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: the cost, the actual cost of what you're buying. You know,

722
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: you're you're paying money, and maybe you you can afford it.

723
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: And maybe you are a wealthy person that has decided

724
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: to go this route because of the hoops required to

725
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: get on a legal list to get you know, what

726
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: you need when you need it. So maybe you decided

727
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: to go this route because you feel like you can

728
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: make it happen quicker for yourself or a loved one.

729
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: But you don't know who was manipulated, who was taking

730
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: advantage of to get that for you, So you are

731
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: becoming part of this problem by you know, feeding it. Yeah,

732
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: absolutely agree this, Okay, let's end on an up note,

733
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: if we can. I know this has been a you know,

734
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: I took that Debbi Downer advice to heart, so I'm

735
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: trying to see some silver linings. There is a huge

736
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: financial incentive now for medical technology US and for inventors

737
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: to create and geneticist as well, to create some sort

738
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: of viable alternative, because even if the illegal organ trafficking

739
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: networks expand and expand even more so in size, we're

740
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: at a point where taking things from one human and

741
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: putting them in another is probably not enough. So what

742
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: we're going to need to do as a species is

743
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: to create a viable alternative, and people are working around

744
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: the clock to do so. So this situation may become

745
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: eventually a thing of the past. You know, eventually, hopefully

746
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: your children and your grandchildren will hear about this age

747
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: in medicine and treat it with the same incredulity that

748
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: we used to treat stories of a world before germ theory.

749
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: They used to take organs out of one person and

750
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: put it in another person, and they used to use

751
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: hands to type what Why don't you just think it

752
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: into your Google? I think it is weird to think

753
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: how long this conversation will last digitally. If the Internet

754
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 1: stays around for long enough, people people might actually listen

755
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,919
Speaker 1: to a go it's too scary. But yeah, we hope

756
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: that you. We hope that you found this episode worthwhile.

757
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: Do you have uh, do you have any thoughts on

758
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: organ transplants ethically, physically, biologically? Have you ever had an

759
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: organ transplant or maybe donated one of your own? You

760
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: you want to write to us and tell us about it,

761
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: We would love to hear. Ye. Have you ever made

762
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: it to the end of the organ trail without dying

763
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: of Dysenterry? I did once, but well I did several times.

764
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 1: I played on easy mode and I still lost some people.

765
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: You monster. One guy broke a leg, uh and then

766
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: died of dysentery. Man, it was rough. This is Harry.

767
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: I think it's like the base level, and then there's

768
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: other stuff that's like we really had to bring it

769
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: back there all I think we should. I really just

770
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: trying to lighten things up a little bit. Guys. This

771
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: has got pretty got pretty pretty dark here, you know.

772
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: I want to play it again and then name members

773
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: of our party, like after after you guys and some

774
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: of our listeners. But I'm afraid of you know, what

775
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: am I gonna do if one of you guys doesn't

776
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: make it over the river. You know we're speaking of parties.

777
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: Let's have a shout out corner party shut at corners.

778
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: Our first shout out goes to Dakota who works at

779
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,479
Speaker 1: the postal service and listens to our show all delivering mail.

780
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: That's kind of cool. Dakota. Let us know that watch

781
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: Mojo often uses our videos as uh kind of source

782
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: material for their own YouTube channel, which is kind of

783
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: what we do with other YouTube channels as well. We'll

784
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 1: use references and but we did some checking and that

785
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 1: they do give us on screen credit with texts, so

786
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: we're totally cool with that. And the last thing, he

787
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: Dakota wanted us to say hello to long John and

788
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: I don't know who that is, but it's it's Dakota's

789
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: friend the watch Moja. They also I think they did

790
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: a list awhile back where they had different conspiracy type

791
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: chose and yeah, YouTube conspiracy theories lists. So Ben Boland

792
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: was and Matt and Matt Frederick we were both on

793
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: that list. We were guys, we're all on the list.

794
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: And next we have Matt s on Twitter, Matt you said,

795
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: have you considered doing an episode on the theory that

796
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: we are living in a simulation? Matt you also sent

797
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: Matt S. You also sent video of la Musk discussing

798
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: this topic, which you, Matt f I am sure enjoyed immensely.

799
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, I think I shared it with you guys.

800
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: Maybe I didn't, Maybe we just talked about it. It's

801
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: the one where Elon Musk is asked a question about

802
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: simulated universe theory, and he basically says we have a

803
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: one in one billion chance of existing in base reality, which,

804
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: if you dig into it a little bit, it's a

805
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: little off. His numbers are a little off, but it's

806
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 1: still fascinating to think that one of the richest humans

807
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: on the planet believes that. Next one, we have one

808
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: via Facebook from Corey C. Thanks for keeping me hip

809
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: to all the neat, strange and weird things you guys cover.

810
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,439
Speaker 1: Then we have a little hashtag party here. Hashtagsad douche,

811
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: hashtag all hail our, age less Overlord Ben, hashtag bag

812
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: of Badgers, hashtag the only medal is created with filth.

813
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 1: Hashtag give him at his boat back hashtag tell Frank

814
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: I said Hi. Yeah, is this someone that knows Frank? Yeah?

815
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: You talked about Frank a couple of times. Um, I

816
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: think you even mentioned that you should say hi. Have

817
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 1: you ever seen Frank? See Frank, say hi to him.

818
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: He's a great guy. I'm just wondering if this is

819
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: someone that knows Frank, Like in the real world, Frank

820
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: does get around. Uh. Maybe there are many Francs, the

821
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: many faces of Frank, the many faces of Frank. And

822
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: this thus ends our shout out corner for today's declash.

823
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: But never fear. If you would like a shout out

824
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: from us, we do. We do two or three each episode.

825
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: If you have something you want to say to all

826
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: the other listeners of the show, then hit us up

827
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook where we are Conspiracy Stuff. And

828
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: if you don't like the social media stuff, go ahead

829
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: and send us an email. It's really easy. We are

830
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: Conspiracy and how Stuff Works dot com.