1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Hey, it's Maria no Josa, my dear Latino USA listener. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: So one of the things that we like to do 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: here at Latino USA is support other independent Latino and 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Latina podcasts out there in the world. So today we 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: wanted to share one of those podcasts, lock at Tora Radio. 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: It's become one of our favorites in the world of 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: independent media. Lok at Tora likes to call itself a 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: radiophonic noela. It's a feminist talk podcast created by co 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: hosts Ariana Rodriguez and Zoe Munos, known professionally as Diosa 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: m and Mala Munos. Now, as you might expect with 11 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: some fierce mouchers that are a little unfiltered, there's going 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: to be some explicit language here, So be prepared and 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: now take it away, Viosa and Mala and subscribe to 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: Lokatra Radio wherever you get your podcasts on. 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 2: Radio. Loa Radio Mammy's a myth and Bullshit. 16 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 3: A radio phonic novella Loka Tora Radio hosted by Malamunos 17 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 3: and Diosa. 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 4: Fam Ola La Loka Morees. 19 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 3: Welcome to season five of Loka Tora Radio podcasts. 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 4: Peli rosas listen at your own risk. 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 5: Loka to Radio is a radiophonic novella, which is just 22 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 5: a very extra way of saying. 23 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 3: A podcast, I'm fiosa, I'm mala. 24 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 5: The topic, the main the gardener of today's Got Bolo 25 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 5: is a little bit stressful. We are talking about fake 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 5: tina's and this can kind of be lumped in as 27 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 5: a weird things white. 28 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: Women did this week, this year, this millennia option. 29 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 5: Fake Tina's aka a fake Latina, someone who is not 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 5: a descendant of Latin America in some way, shape or form, 31 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 5: dotting some Latin costume and taking on the identity. 32 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 2: That's what we're defining as a fake Tina. 33 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 5: We're just going to run through some examples because we 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 5: noticed there's a trend. There's so many of them in 35 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 5: so many different iterations that it calls for an episode 36 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 5: not necessarily doing an exhaustive case study of each person, 37 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 5: but we're just going to kind of run through them 38 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 5: or caster. 39 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 6: And and and and and and and and and and 40 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 6: and and and and and and and. 41 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: Of it and bullshit. 42 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get started with I think this person or 43 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: like story broke like during the summer. It's kind of 44 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 3: hard to tell now with the pandemic what time is 45 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 3: like what time is, but one of the first prominent 46 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: ones that I remember seeing, and that why I know 47 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: what's flooding. Her timeline was the story of Jessica krug 48 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: A Ka or formerly known as jess Cringe already. 49 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 5: As formerly known as jess Let's get started, let's talk 50 00:03:54,280 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 5: about her. Yes, So this woman has allegedly and apparently 51 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 5: apparently been taking on different like black and Afro diasporic 52 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 5: identities throughout her life. She's a professor or was a professor, 53 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 5: an academic. 54 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: We're at George Washington. 55 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 5: University University teaching you know, Black studies or Africana studies 56 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 5: and publishing books. But at some point she was shifting 57 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 5: from being you know, North African, to being African American 58 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 5: and then to being Afro LATINX and Afro Barriqua was 59 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 5: I think the final landing place for her social form, 60 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 5: her final form. So, Jessica krug Aka jess La bo 61 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 5: Malea hers is the combination of blackfishing and being a 62 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 5: fake Tina at the same time. And she got called 63 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 5: out basically rightfully so rightfully so by a group of 64 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 5: professors who are after Latinas who had had issues with her, 65 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 5: they were witnessed to or on the receiving end of 66 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 5: like aggression from her and like prejudice and bad behavior 67 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 5: while she was masquerading as after Latina in different contexts 68 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 5: apparently being super like belligerent towards black women and like 69 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 5: uncool and really I think overcompensating and so trying to 70 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 5: be an sort of extreme caricature of like this South Bronx, 71 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 5: like allegedly her mother was like a drug addict, prostitute, 72 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 5: like this narrative that she created about herself. So black 73 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 5: women in the academy, you know, began talking about these 74 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 5: different experiences and came forward and said this is not right. 75 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, she was definitely performing, like being extreme radical, like 76 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: it was very performative. She was a published, you know, 77 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: academic author, and she also received a ton of accolades 78 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: right she received. She was a finalist for the twenty 79 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 3: twenty Frederick Douglas Prize book Prize, presented by Yale's Guilder 80 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: Lehman Center for the Study of Slavery, Resistance and Abolition. 81 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 3: She also was nominated or a finalist for the twenty 82 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: nineteen Harriet Tubman Book Prize, and she's just received a 83 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: ton of accolades and has really been propelled or was 84 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 3: propelled forward and questionably hired because of not solely for 85 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 3: her identity, but because of the work she was doing 86 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: and also the way she positioned herself as a Afro 87 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: Latina or Bourriqua. And it's very cringey to think about 88 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 3: all of the opportunities she stole from actual after latinas 89 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 3: Bourriqua's Caribbean women that are doing if not this same 90 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: work or better work, you know. And so it's that 91 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 3: was probably one of the first ones that we saw, 92 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: and then I think it kind of just opened up 93 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: the floodgates for a lot of others. And I don't 94 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 3: know about you, Mala, but in my Chicano Chicana Studies 95 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: department at UC Santa Barbara, there were a couple fake 96 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: dinas that I will not name. They were not they 97 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 3: weren't anyone that I took, like, I didn't take any 98 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 3: classes with them, but they were around. 99 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: People talked about them. 100 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 3: People knew like this person is very white, claims this 101 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 3: this Chicana Mexicana identity, you know, is white skin, blue eyes, 102 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: performing Chican you know, some kind of Chicana identity, wearing 103 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: the trahitipicles, with the futida gallo aesthetic, the whole thing, right, 104 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 3: And no, no, it's like you like I they weren't. 105 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 4: They were my peers. 106 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: I was a student, right, but I had friends that 107 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 3: were graduate students, and they would tell me about these 108 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 3: things that would happen and in their cohort or in 109 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 3: their in their seminars, and so you know, I think 110 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: if if you've been in academia, right, I haven't been 111 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 3: to grad school, but I was in undergrad but I've 112 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: definitely seen the fatinas around, so they definitely exist. And 113 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 3: I think that this one opened the floodgates for a 114 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 3: ton of others that we're going to talk about on 115 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: this episode. 116 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 5: Wow, that phenomenon that you just described is so wild. 117 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: Well, we didn't have Chicano studies at Tufts, so there 118 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: was that. 119 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 5: But also bop Us is here, and he's like if 120 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 5: you hear bop Us, he is on top of me 121 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 5: as we record. He will not let me rest because 122 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 5: he's obsessed with me. And whenever I'm on my computer 123 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 5: or my phone, he like is insanely jealous. So we 124 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 5: didn't have Chicano studies at TUESLA. That wasn't so much 125 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 5: of a thing. But there's I think too like these 126 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 5: are not there's I think levels right because as for example, 127 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 5: within Latini Dad specifically, there's been so many conversations and 128 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 5: a lot of learning and then learning about like, Okay, 129 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 5: you can have indigenous ancestry, African ancestry, but not present 130 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 5: as Blacker indigenous. And there's a difference between acknowledging mixedness 131 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 5: in your actual heritage versus claiming, you know, AFROLATINX indigenous. 132 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: That's not what's going on with these women. 133 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 5: These are like white Anglo Saxon Protestant women who are 134 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 5: taking on Afrolatin Black of Latin American mestiza identity somehow 135 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 5: or another that they have zero connection to. And that 136 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 5: is where the problem lies, right And not only claiming 137 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 5: the identities, but winning prizes which come with and acclaim 138 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 5: and accolades and especially an academia are really important in 139 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 5: propelling people towards things like tenure. 140 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 2: And we know that the. 141 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 5: Major institutions do not give tenure to professors of color, 142 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 5: to LATINX, to black professors. 143 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: We've seen it on. 144 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 5: Twitter, the professors tell us, you know, I didn't realize 145 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 5: Cornell West does not have tenure at Harvard. 146 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 4: Oh should I didn't know that either. 147 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: What Cornell West does not have tenure? 148 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 5: And apparently he's you know, applied and pursued it and 149 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 5: he's been denied and they've. 150 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: You know, there are others. 151 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 5: And so here you have this woman who is a 152 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 5: white Anglo Saxon Protestant woman who is a white woman. Well, actually, 153 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 5: I don't know if she's Protestant. I'll take that back. 154 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 5: I don't know if she's a wasp. But she's a 155 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 5: white lady, an American white lady. 156 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: She's definitely a white woman. 157 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 3: And I want to say, like I had a professor 158 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 3: in black studies. He's like renowned in his field. His 159 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: name is George Lipsitz. He's a white man, and he 160 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 3: did his job so well. And so my point is, like, 161 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 3: you can be a white woman, or you can be 162 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: a white person and study you know what you're studying, 163 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 3: and have these degrees and do this research ethically respectfully. 164 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 4: All of that. 165 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: There's no need to perform Latini dad right, and really 166 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: reduce it to a caricature, a trope and steal opportunities 167 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 3: from other people, from other women, other Latinas after Latina's 168 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 3: black women, and so it's very cringey, and we have 169 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: lots of thoughts about it. 170 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 4: You know, and other people do. We are not the 171 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 4: only ones. 172 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: There are lots of women, a lot of black women, 173 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: a lot of after Latinas on the internet on Twitter 174 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 3: especially talking about it. 175 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, and so if you want to learn more about 176 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 5: jess La Bombala aka Jessica Krug, you can read about 177 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 5: her in the cut history and Jessica Krug admits to 178 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 5: posing as a black woman. You can also just type 179 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 5: in Jessica Krug or Jessla Bonballe into your Twitter search 180 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 5: bar and it'll all come flooding. She's not the only one. 181 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 5: There are more. And what's interesting to me is how 182 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 5: many of these are women. We're only talking about women 183 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 5: today because I think they have gotten the most attention, 184 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 5: in the most heat, and they're the ones that I've 185 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,479 Speaker 5: seen get called out. There was another an African American 186 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 5: man who had been posing as Afro Cuban. We need 187 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 5: to look up his name, but he also was called 188 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 5: out post mortem after he died. His family, his family 189 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 5: from Detroit came out and said he's not an immigrant 190 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 5: from Cuba. 191 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: He is a black man from Detroit. 192 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 5: But he had published books and you know, established a 193 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 5: career based on this Cuban identity. 194 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, he was also a professor lecturer at George 195 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 3: Washington University as well. 196 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 5: So acche Carrio is the assumed name, the pseudonym that 197 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 5: this individual took to basically take on like an Afro 198 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 5: Cuban immigrant identity, publishing books, and like you mentioned, also 199 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 5: teaching at GW George Washington University. 200 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: So I don't know what's going on. 201 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 5: At GW at George Washington University where they're hiring these 202 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 5: people specifically in this Afro LATINX space. I don't know's 203 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 5: there's a thread, there's something going on there requires further investigation, 204 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 5: I think. 205 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: I mean it makes me think and we know this 206 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 3: to be true, right, but I'm like, the thread has 207 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 3: to be that these hiring committees are probably all white people. 208 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: I mean that's what I would think. 209 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And I think for them there's a combination 210 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 5: of yeah, it is true, LATINX people come in all 211 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 5: shapes and sizes and shades, and how do white people 212 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 5: who are not. 213 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: Of the LATINX experience. 214 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 5: How do white folks gatekeep or or gauge or assess 215 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 5: for authenticity? 216 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: Is it there? 217 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 3: Like? 218 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: How can that be done? Is it their job? 219 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 5: It also begs the question why aren't there more people 220 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 5: of color in the room and involved in the hiring 221 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 5: process to begin with? Because would these things be happening 222 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 5: if there were more POC in academia? 223 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? 224 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I second that, all right. Next on the list 225 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: we have Laria. 226 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 4: Hilaria Ilaria. 227 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: Ilaria Baldwin, a white woman that claimed Spanish ancestry, which 228 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 3: we know is European, but she was still included in 229 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: a ton of LATINX press, you know, media, the whole thing, 230 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: because LATINX media loves to associate themselves with Spain even 231 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 3: though Spain does not claim us. 232 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 5: No, no, I mean we can kind of. We will 233 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 5: be talking about Rosalia a little bit because she's also 234 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 5: somebody who chwes that Spaniard Hispanic adjacent enough to LATINX 235 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 5: and she's she's in there. But with Ilaria is so 236 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 5: funny to me because people have been posting her interviews 237 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 5: and stuff from throughout the years where she like pretends 238 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 5: not to know like English words for things. 239 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: Like, how do you say cucumber? 240 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 5: And it's like, girl, you're from You're from Massachusetts, Like 241 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 5: you know what the word is for cucumber. Why are 242 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 5: you acting like you don't, as if English is your 243 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 5: second language, because it's no. And there was another video 244 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 5: that they posted where her mom who is and these 245 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 5: are these people are the definition of wasps, right, They 246 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 5: truly are their East Coasters, their New Englanders. And her 247 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 5: mom is like an academic, you know who like presents 248 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 5: papers on things. And they showed this video of Hilario 249 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 5: Hilario's mom, and Hilario's mom is just why does all 250 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 5: get out like English speaking, you know, as it gets 251 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 5: and she's talking about her kids and she pauses before 252 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 5: she says Hiladia's name because it's clearly not natural to 253 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 5: her and she had to stop herself and like, remember, 254 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 5: oh yeah, Hillary likes to be called Hiladia dead. 255 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm screaming, Oh my god. That is 256 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 3: so embarrassing. 257 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 4: First of all. 258 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: Second of all, I think one of the things like 259 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: constantly ask myself when these things happen. When we see 260 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: the Iladias or the we see the Rachel Dolzols, we 261 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 3: see the Jessica Krug. It's like, how are these lies 262 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: able to persist for so long? And I constantly asked 263 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 3: myself that because it tells me you really have to 264 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 3: cut yourself off from people to continue this lie, because 265 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 3: you're living in a falsehood. Maybe you don't, maybe these 266 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 3: people don't have any family. But clearly Ladia did. Oh 267 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 3: my god, clearly Hillary did. 268 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 4: I'm even saying I Ladia Claria. 269 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 3: Clearly, Hillary, Hilaria, whatever her name is, right, Clearly she 270 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 3: had family. 271 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 4: Both of her parents were professors. They have a home 272 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 4: in Spain. 273 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 3: Whichever country she says, I mean, whichever region of Spain 274 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 3: she says she's from. 275 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 4: I can't recall it the moment. So there's something majorca. 276 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 3: So there is some connection, but she was not born there, 277 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 3: she's not from there. And I think that this just 278 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 3: raises the question of like the falsehood that is Latinidad, right, 279 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: that we continue to challenge and question that we well, 280 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 3: not us, but well I mean as a whole, right, 281 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 3: as a culture, as a society, that we continue to 282 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 3: put these Spaniards in positions of as gatekeepers or not 283 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 3: even gatekeepers, as representations of Latini. That you know, raises 284 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 3: the question of like we continue to do this and 285 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 3: at the same time deny black Latinos alpha Latinos exist, right, 286 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 3: And so it's just this like constant tension of like 287 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 3: white supremacy in Latini. 288 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 5: That yeah, there's so much to it because like people 289 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 5: are very happy to embrace a white woman as Latina, 290 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 5: like very open arms. I was listening to like I 291 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 5: wanted to listen to, like an Olivia Newton John like 292 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 5: Spotify like moment, like I was like, give me all 293 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 5: of the ballads, and then fucking I'm So Pretty from 294 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 5: West Side's Story comes on, and of course Natalie Wood 295 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 5: plays a Puerto Rican girl Maria, and I hadn't seen 296 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 5: West Side Story in such a long time. But then 297 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 5: I Feel Pretty comes on and Natalie Wood is singing 298 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 5: in the most horrific Spanish pretend accent I have ever 299 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 5: heard in my life, and it was jarring because I 300 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 5: forgot or I guess I hadn't noticed before, but it 301 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 5: was like, no, this has been going on for some 302 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 5: time now. 303 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 3: That whole cast did brown face, with the exception of 304 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 3: Rita Moreno, you know, yeah, it is very cringey, and 305 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 3: I want to go back to what you said mala Latinos, right, 306 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 3: the Latin community really embracing these alleged white people that 307 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 3: are performing Latin up or actual white Latinos. 308 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 5: Right. 309 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 3: And I want to give Anya Taylor Joy as an example. 310 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 3: She shout out the Queen's gambit. 311 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 4: Lovely actress. Loved her performance. 312 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 3: But what I noticed is that as soon as it 313 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 3: came out that I don't know if she was born 314 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 3: in a Tantina, if she has Argentine ancestry. I'm not 315 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 3: not sure what her ancestry or DNA is, obviously, but 316 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 3: I saw the quickly Latinos were claiming her, you know. 317 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 4: And what's the common thread. 318 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, the whiteness, the whiteness. And another white one is 319 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 5: Rosalia who a lot of people have been talking about 320 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 5: her esthetics, but also of course her foray intereton and 321 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 5: her being very much embraced in the music industry and 322 00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 5: in you know, Latin Latino Latin American arts and entertainment. 323 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 5: That has been interesting to behold. At the same time, 324 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,239 Speaker 5: I like her Flamenco stuff, you know what I mean, Like, 325 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 5: I like her Flamenco stuff, but she is capitalizing on, like, 326 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 5: you know, these factors and dynamics that we just talked about, 327 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 5: especially with regards to reggaeton, because, as has been pointed 328 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 5: out by folks like Gatta of. 329 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: Can we name the black. 330 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 5: Women reggaetoneiras who are being put on the way Rosalia 331 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 5: is being put on? 332 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 2: No, we can't at this point. 333 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 5: And this is where the problem is because if they're 334 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 5: in a black genre, if there were a ton of 335 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 5: black women and black artists who were being celebrated and 336 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 5: put on and get you know, getting deals and records 337 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 5: and tours and publicity, Rosalia popped onto the scene, that 338 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 5: would be a different story. But there's an imbalance. 339 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 3: It wouldn't matter that there's one right because there's these 340 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: other black artists that pioneered the genre. 341 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 4: I wouldn't matter if there was one right. 342 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 3: But no, it's it's the Jay Bobbins, the Bad Bunny, 343 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 3: the Maluma, it's all of them. 344 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 4: They're all white, right, And I think like it. 345 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 3: Also goes to show that even the I mean the 346 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 3: white Latinos are the weakest link because they've all collabed 347 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 3: with her, and I can't name, like, any black women 348 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 3: that they've collabed with. 349 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 4: Don't quote me. 350 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 3: I may be wrong, but I can assume like I mean, 351 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 3: bad Bunny Haroslia on SNL with him, which is a 352 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: huge platform, right, and so it just who are we 353 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: giving the airtime too? 354 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 2: Write? 355 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 3: Who are we giving the Yeah, all of that. I'm 356 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 3: losing my momentum, but you get me. 357 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: Truly, and and you know, like Amarala Negra is right. 358 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 5: There, absolutely, and there's a ton is right there. There's many, 359 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 5: There's many, you know, Maluka is right there, Bia is 360 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 5: right there. Yes, there are a lot, They're a lot, Yeah, truly, 361 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 5: Rico Nasty is Puerto Rican. You know all this to say, 362 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 5: you know, these people are are engaging in or have 363 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 5: engaged in, some type of fake Tina or blackfishing combo 364 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 5: behavior in one way or another. 365 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 2: Right, We've talked about. 366 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 5: American Dirt and Janine come Ins, but we think that 367 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 5: she's another example because part of the conversation about her 368 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 5: authoring a story like American Dirt set in Mexico, this 369 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 5: immigrant narrative was what's the connection to the story and 370 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 5: all that, right, like on a macro level. And so 371 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 5: what came out was Janine having this sort of mixed 372 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 5: public history of identifying as a white woman but then 373 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 5: also being like no, I'm LATINX because my grandma was 374 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 5: Puerto Rican, right. 375 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 3: And also received a six figure deal for American Dirt. 376 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 2: A lot of money, lots of money. 377 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 3: We have a whole episode on that. We'll link that 378 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 3: in the show notes, so you can go back and 379 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 3: listen to that. But I mean, the point is it's 380 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: happening at all the levels industry wide. It does not 381 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 3: matter what industry you're a part of, whether that be academia, 382 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 3: in the book, industry, publishing, industry, music, and television. It 383 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: is happening at all the levels. And I think that 384 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 3: it will continue, We will continue to see more stories 385 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 3: of fake Tinas, especially because it's like a weird phenomenon 386 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,719 Speaker 3: where Latinos LATINX folks are having a moment. But then 387 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 3: you also see like studies that say Netflix is severely 388 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 3: underrepresenting Latinos in comparison to other people of color, right, 389 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 3: And it's a very layered conversation. Of course, because Latini 390 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 3: that is not a race. 391 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 4: We know that. 392 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 3: So it's just this weird place to be in where 393 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 3: Latinos are quote popular Caribbean culture is like having a 394 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 3: very big moment where non Caribbean Latinos folks like from Colombia, 395 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 3: like j Balvin and Maluma will use a Caribbean Hega 396 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 3: will use Caribbean accents, and so it's a it's a 397 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 3: very it's a weird place to be in. And I 398 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 3: want to reference Gatta because she has done extensive, extensive 399 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 3: Twitter threads, She's talked about it on her own podcast. 400 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 3: So I want to link her work and reference everyone 401 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 3: or direct everyone over there because she has been really 402 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: pioneering and creating the knowledge share about that. So head 403 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 3: on over because she can talk about that at great lengths. 404 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 5: And one example of somebody who's been doing this and 405 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,959 Speaker 5: getting a lot of attention of both negative and positive, 406 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 5: honestly Natipluso, who is an Argentinian artist. You've probably seen 407 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 5: her colors videos circulating pileroa Yip, pap Pampa, Hi Papa. 408 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 3: It is so cringey and it's weird that she gets 409 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 3: so much like she does get a lot of praise. 410 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 4: She gets a lot of praise, and she's Grammy nominated. 411 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 3: She's Grammy nominated and Grammy nominated. She's literally doing brown face. 412 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 3: I would say she's also blackfishing. She's in Argentina Riala Espana. 413 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 3: She has a Spanish accent puts on a Caribbean accent, 414 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 3: which is why it sounds so phony and awkward. Someone 415 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 3: on her team told her that she can dance when 416 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 3: she cannot, and it's just that is like one of the. 417 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 4: Biggest sins someone on her team. One of the. 418 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 3: Biggest sins is that someone was like, yes, you're a 419 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 3: great dancer because she does a lot of it, and 420 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 3: she does her own choreography, is what I like, it 421 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 3: seems like, and she does, and every time she comes 422 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: up on my timeline, I'm like both horrified and amazed, 423 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 3: like that this person has that big of a platform. 424 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 2: It's one of those things right where we see. 425 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 5: It over and over and over again. It's very formulaic. 426 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 5: Somebody does something weird, cringey, unlikable, bad, just downright bad, 427 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 5: and people will millions of people will hate them into fame. 428 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 5: I mean, uh, what's her face? 429 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: Bad? Baby? That catch me outside? How about right? 430 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 5: You know, hated into into fame and stardom in millions. 431 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 5: And I don't doubt that there's a similar phenomenon here 432 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 5: because I think her videos over the past six months 433 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 5: have and circulated so much out and people not liking 434 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 5: them Yeah, but the Internet and the algorithm, the numbers 435 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 5: and the analytics don't care what people are saying, just 436 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 5: that they're saying something and that. 437 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 2: It's been shared. 438 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 5: So when we drag and we give like all this 439 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 5: public hate, we're usually boosting. 440 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 2: Honestly, after that. 441 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 4: Hip hip hopa song, I forget it, But that's like 442 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 4: the biggest take. That's like the. 443 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 3: Biggest sid that Big Eye, you know, which is the 444 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 3: worst because it's so horrible. 445 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 4: It had like three four million views, and I'm like. 446 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 3: Mala, our community is responsible for this because we were 447 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 3: hating it so much that we gave it three to 448 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 3: four million views. 449 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very true. It's very true because. 450 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 5: It's like, of course, on the one hand, we want 451 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 5: to go see so that we can then talk about it, 452 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 5: because we do what we do and we talk about 453 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 5: things and we're podcasters and it's literally our job to 454 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 5: discuss things in the world, so we're going to investigate 455 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 5: for you all. But it also is like that's the 456 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 5: other side of the coin, is do the. 457 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 2: Stuff we actually like? 458 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 5: Are we watching that and sharing that and launching that 459 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 5: into stardom or is it only the stuff we hate? 460 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 3: It's true they watching they hate following is real, and 461 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: because I don't follow her, but when that she comes 462 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 3: up in my timeline, like she just did a Satisat 463 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: cover and oh my god, it was so cringey, and 464 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 3: I like watch part of it, you know, because it's 465 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 3: one of those things where it's like you can't look away, 466 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 3: but you don't want to watch it, but you're still 467 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 3: watching it. 468 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: It's so true. 469 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 5: It's so true because it's like, Okay, what is she 470 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 5: up to now? 471 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: Like what did she do now? 472 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 4: Exactly? 473 00:29:53,320 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 5: Oh my god, there are more still still so. Navasquez, 474 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 5: who is a prolific journalist in Prism and The Daily Cos, 475 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 5: wrote about a lawyer, the National Lawyer's Guild First Latina 476 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 5: president allegedly turns out is actually a white woman who 477 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 5: has pretended to be Latina like her entire professional career, again, 478 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 5: working in like Hispanic serving institutions, getting you know, awards, 479 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 5: and holding titles that are supposed to be for Latina's. 480 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 2: Her name is Natasha Alicia Orra Bannon. 481 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 5: And I highly recommend checking out the article. This is 482 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 5: also another interesting one because again it begs the question 483 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 5: like how does the charade go on for so long? 484 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 5: How does nobody know or say anything. 485 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: But then I also think, like in the moment, like 486 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: what would one say? Like what you know? 487 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 5: Just kind of been thinking about like the question we've 488 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 5: been asking, like how do people keep this up? Like 489 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 5: if we were to see somebody in real like what 490 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 5: would we do? 491 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: What? What would be? I don't even know. 492 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 4: Well, speaking of what would we do? 493 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 3: We have received multiple dms in the past in the 494 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 3: past couple of weeks, right from alleged Latinas in the 495 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 3: wellness space right. 496 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 5: Women alleged Latinas performing latiniad. 497 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 3: In the tropiest ways for lack of a better word, 498 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 3: literally tropes of Latinidad, claiming that they were raised with 499 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 3: the Latino culture literally a quote. 500 00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 4: And that makes me say which one, right, which Latin culture? 501 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 3: Because all I see is a caricature of what you 502 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 3: think Latini that is. 503 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 4: So there will be. 504 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 3: People that have remained unnamed because we will not do 505 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 3: a public call out, right, but just know that if 506 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 3: you are taking press resources and are not a Latina 507 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 3: and you're taking it away from actual Latinas, like that 508 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 3: is very wrong, very fucked up, not ethical. 509 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 5: And I want to challenge this notion that like it's 510 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 5: not hot to be white or to be whatever it 511 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 5: is that you are, because we can look around everywhere 512 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 5: the influencer space, arts and entertainment, media, scholarship, academia, social justice, 513 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 5: whatever the industry is, and I promise you that white 514 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 5: people are doing just fine. Like there is no evidence 515 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 5: to say suggests that taking on a LATINX or black 516 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 5: persona is going to increase like your chances of anything 517 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 5: or improve your quality of life. What it will do is, 518 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 5: because you're a white person taking on the identity, it 519 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 5: will ensure that you probably have a leg up in 520 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 5: those spaces on actual people of color, and it does 521 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 5: guarantee that you are going to be benefiting from something 522 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 5: that you should not be benefiting from. 523 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 2: So it's like very weird because it's like they're. 524 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 5: Taking on an identity related to oppression in their mind 525 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 5: and going into the more limited pool of resources to. 526 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 2: Then take advantage and benefit. 527 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 5: When in the large pool with everyone involved, they would 528 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 5: I don't know, would they do just fine or are 529 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 5: they mediocre to a point that they feel they need 530 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 5: to be in this, you know what I mean? They 531 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 5: need to be in a smaller pond almost so they 532 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 5: subtract themselves from the whiteness so that they can benefit 533 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 5: over here in a more like curated space. Does that 534 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 5: make sense? 535 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 4: It does make sense. 536 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 3: It makes me question like do white women just want 537 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,439 Speaker 3: to be more oppressed, like they want to be more 538 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 3: oppressed in the sense that they want to take on 539 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 3: this like other ethnicity or race in some case, right, 540 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 3: And that makes me think of this beauty influencer named 541 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 3: Amanda en Singh. I was following her for a quick 542 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 3: minute until she posted some pro Trump things, like literally 543 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 3: on Christmas Day, and I was like, oh my god, 544 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 3: how am I following this girl? Unfollowed later to find 545 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 3: out like she had been doing some brown fishing, blackfishing 546 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 3: as well. She was part Puerto Rican and she had 547 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 3: a conversation with another beauty influencer, a black woman, Jackie Aina, 548 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 3: and she told her allegedly right in this Twitter thread 549 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 3: that Jackie Ayna shared that Amanda told Jackie that she 550 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 3: wasn't getting as she wasn't getting booked as much in 551 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 3: the beauty influencer makeup space because white women weren't popular, right, 552 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 3: And so I think that what you're saying is right, 553 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 3: that they are mediocre, and so they take on this 554 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:38,919 Speaker 3: other label of identity, of ethnicity, of race to somehow 555 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 3: like stand out or they see that maybe some ethnicity 556 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 3: or identity is like quote thriving right now, but don't 557 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 3: actually have the lived experience as said identity, right, So, 558 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 3: I think you're right. 559 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 2: It's some wild stuff. 560 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 5: It's some deep psychological weird shit. And again like, Okay, 561 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 5: for example, we can honor and claim our indigenous heritage 562 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 5: what have you, I'm not going to apply or attempt 563 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 5: to like be that be you know, a whole public 564 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 5: office for you know, the Department of Indigenous Affairs, what 565 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 5: have you. Right, Like, I'm not going to seek positions 566 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 5: of power or influence or monies or resources that are 567 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 5: designated for Native Americans because I am not living that 568 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 5: experience and I'm not a Native American person, right. So 569 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 5: and again again, these women are like not even doing that. 570 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 5: They're taking on something that is like completely and totally 571 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 5: separate and apart from them, that. 572 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: Has nothing to do with them. 573 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 5: And if folks have other fake Tina's that they have 574 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 5: known of, that they have heard of, we welcome you 575 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 5: to tell us about them. 576 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 2: We're not going to like drag them, but we want 577 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 2: to know. Yeah, I want to know. 578 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've definitely like kind of looked in horror 579 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,479 Speaker 3: at some of the dms that we've goten like, wow, 580 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 3: these people someone that I had never seen before. But 581 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 3: when I went on their page, I was like, oh, 582 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 3: some of my mutuals are their mutuals, like you know. 583 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 3: And so then it just, I don't know, it creates 584 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 3: this very weird bubble of like who is performative, who's authentic? 585 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 4: Who are leaders? I don't know. It just raises a 586 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 4: lot of questions. 587 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 3: Just know, if you scroll back into our timeline, you 588 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,720 Speaker 3: will see that we've been Latinas since we were born. 589 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 5: Okay, been Latinas. Okay, I've been Acha. This is not 590 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 5: an act. I'm actually a cha hashtag hashtag. 591 00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 4: We live this. 592 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 2: We have the emotional trauma. 593 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 4: So prove no, it's so true. It's so true. 594 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 5: We should discuss that there is also okay, because there's 595 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 5: layers upon layers. How about non black Latinas who are blackfishing. 596 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 2: That's oh yes too. 597 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 5: Within the conversation we're talking about fake Tina's, we're talking 598 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 5: about blackfishing. 599 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 2: There are also a group of. 600 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,720 Speaker 5: Latinas who are like non black Latinas who have also 601 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 5: been called out for blackfishing. And I feel like this 602 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 5: is mostly in the sort of like beauty space where 603 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 5: maybe they're not makeup artists per se, but they're like 604 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 5: batties who are like posting like selfies and like picks, 605 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 5: you know, and there's this like hyper sexualization. I think 606 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 5: of black aesthetics. And then you have non black Latinas 607 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 5: and you see the photos. You know, there are so 608 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 5: many ye at this point, I can't. 609 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 4: Jenny six nine a nay six nine. 610 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 5: So you can see over time how like their features, 611 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 5: their contour, the lip injections, the hair, you know, the 612 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 5: so ins, the bronzing, the blackfishing, right, you can see 613 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 5: gradually over time how like they have changed their look 614 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 5: to look more and more and more like a light 615 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 5: skinned black girl when they did not look like that before. 616 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 5: And you bring up Jenny six nine because Jenny six 617 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 5: nine has also gotten in trouble for wearing braids, and 618 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 5: that has been another thing that non black Latinas have 619 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 5: been doing, is wearing braids in their hair. That's the 620 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 5: whole thing. Yeah, we can talk about that because it's 621 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 5: not cool. And then what ends up happening is like 622 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 5: folks will honestly have an adverse reaction and for good reason. 623 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 2: And what's amazing to me is we once. 624 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 5: I had a guest who shared this person's not black Latina. 625 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 5: They shared once that they had braids put in their 626 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 5: hair and that they were out and that a black 627 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 5: woman like didn't like her braids and had like a 628 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 5: bad reaction to her braids. 629 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 3: Right like in person, she literally la holol is literally 630 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 3: what happened. 631 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 4: She literally pulled her from her box braids and threw 632 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,240 Speaker 4: her on to the floor. 633 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 5: And my thing is, I don't know why non black 634 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 5: women keep getting the braids put in when I think 635 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 5: it's been established by now that it's like not a cool. 636 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 2: Thing to do. 637 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,320 Speaker 5: So when we hurt when she told us a story, 638 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 5: I think part of us was like, why. 639 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 2: Did you why did you get the braid to begin with? 640 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 5: Bruh, Like let's do better, so you know, and we 641 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 5: we kind of had a conversation with her, and I 642 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 5: think that it was like a learning opportunity for everybody. 643 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, let's not do that. You guys, Like, if 644 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 2: you're thinking about it, I would say, just don't. 645 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, don't do it. It's not good like to 646 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 3: your basic research, like there's so many combos on the internet, 647 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 3: Like it's kind of an inexcusable at this point, Like 648 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 3: you should know better at this point, because I mean, 649 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 3: especially like there are AFA Latinas in our community, in 650 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 3: our space and in our homes and in our countries, 651 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 3: and you know, like they're having these conversations. They've been 652 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 3: having these conversations for many, many years now. So there's 653 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 3: literally no reason to not know better and to not 654 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 3: search out that information for yourself. 655 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, I think that there's a lot 656 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 5: of different ways to be inspired by the art of 657 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 5: a culture and the creativity of a culture. 658 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 2: I think that different communities come. 659 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 5: Up with their own like types of expression. And so 660 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 5: because we live in multual, multicultural societies, we we have 661 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 5: all these different influences. But there's a big difference between 662 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 5: you know, drawing inspiration and including bits and pieces in 663 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,800 Speaker 5: your work or or in your style and donning. 664 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,879 Speaker 2: Like a costume. 665 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,760 Speaker 5: You know, you can you can appreciate and even draw 666 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 5: from in different ways without like literally putting on blackface 667 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 5: brown face, like it doesn't minstrelsy is it's very extreme. 668 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,359 Speaker 5: But like what folks point out, what black folks point out, 669 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 5: is like these are examples of modern day minstrelsy. If you, 670 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 5: I think, if you truly respect the art and the craft, 671 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 5: then I think that you don't want to disrespect like 672 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 5: the creators and the originators, you know, like if it's 673 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 5: if it's a true appreciation, then we have respect for 674 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 5: the people that made it. 675 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 2: All that to say, yeah. 676 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 5: The fake Tina situation is messy, there will probably be more. Ooh, 677 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 5: let us know what you guys think of this conversation. 678 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 5: We want to hear from you comment dm us, let 679 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 5: us know. I mean, maybe there are people that we miss, 680 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 5: Maybe there are some fake Tinas that we didn't cover. 681 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 5: I'm sure there are more. In fact, I know there 682 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 5: are more because we've seen others. But this is just 683 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 5: a little launch pad for us. I hope you liked 684 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 5: this episode. We want to get back into these more 685 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 5: thematic look at the capitolos and so twenty twenty one 686 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 5: is very much dedicated to that. 687 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 4: So thank you for listening, Yes, thank you so much 688 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 4: for listening. 689 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 5: We also want to remind you to subscribe to look 690 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,240 Speaker 5: at Thotter Radio if you want to support indie podcasters 691 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 5: but are looking for a way to do so other 692 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 5: than donating, make sure you subscribe. 693 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 3: And also leave a review. It really helps new listeners 694 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 3: find us. It puts us at the charts so that 695 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 3: new listeners can find us and share. Always share by 696 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 3: word of mouth. Your primas, your das, your homegirls, your alas, 697 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 3: look at Dota is for everybody. So thank you again 698 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,240 Speaker 3: for tuning in and we will catch you next time. 699 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 3: Bess Loa Radio radio 700 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 5: Loa Radio Mammy's a Myth and Bullshit a radio phonic 701 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 5: novela look Atta Radio hosted by Malamonios and diosfem