Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're
Speaker 2: a weekly reminder that as bad thing happened, a good
Speaker 2: thing try to happen. Sometimes does happen. Sometimes good thing happen,
Speaker 2: and that's what make bad thing.
Speaker 3: Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this is a podcast
Speaker 2: that I run twice a week, and I have a guest,
Speaker 2: and my guest is Katabugazala. How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing great, Margaret, How are you?
Speaker 2: I am doing okay. I'm clearly a little bit frazzled.
Speaker 2: I'm suddenly by the speed at which I'm talking thinking
Speaker 2: I might have eaten more sugar than I thought today.
Speaker 1: I love that for you. That's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Kat is a journalist, a commentator, and now a
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six candidate for US House of Representatives the
Speaker 2: ninth district of Illinois.
Speaker 1: That is accurate. That is what I'm running for. And
Speaker 1: we're almost at two months of the campaign now.
Speaker 2: And basically, like y'all are just trying to primary a
Speaker 2: Democrat is not doing their job, Like I don't know
Speaker 2: enough about the stuff I'm not trying to Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I mean the words in your mouth about it.
Speaker 1: So the incumbent actually announced that she won't be seeking reelection.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, her name is jan Schakowski and she has
Speaker 1: been a progressive member of Congress. Oh, my grandmother, who
Speaker 1: was like a GOP operative hated her, which is like
Speaker 1: an endorsement of Schaikowski's character. She is not seeking a
Speaker 1: fifteenth term, and I announced before she announced, not like
Speaker 1: as a vendetta against her. But I think that there's
Speaker 1: a problem in the party of not having competitive primaries.
Speaker 1: And there hasn't been a competitive primary in this district
Speaker 1: since nineteen ninety eight, five months before I was born.
Speaker 1: And so we're trying to do like a different style
Speaker 1: of campaigning, spending our money on good stuff like that
Speaker 1: helps people instead of consultants and a bunch of ads
Speaker 1: that might not be effectively strategized. I know, super radical.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like the best advertising for you is
Speaker 2: how much everyone's trying to attack you right now. That's
Speaker 2: how I keep being aware of your Yeah.
Speaker 1: People have been losing their minds in the funniest way.
Speaker 1: I've been called Maga hamas Republican. Someone alleged that's as
Speaker 1: the La Terror cell. I've been called a carpetbagger because
Speaker 1: I'm a transplant and like that's also fine. We're just
Speaker 1: trying to prove through art, like you don't have to
Speaker 1: legally vote for me, Like there's not a law that
Speaker 1: you have to vote for.
Speaker 2: Me until you get into the office. And then I
Speaker 2: see that that's one of your campaign promises is to
Speaker 2: suspend democracy.
Speaker 1: And then we're all in on autocracy. Obviously. The fact
Speaker 1: that I am dating Ben Collins of Onion fame is
Speaker 1: a massive journalistic malpractice as well, because the Onion is
Speaker 1: America's finest news source. And then someone did attack my
Speaker 1: cat and that's like the one here. They went after you.
Speaker 1: They were like in fuck your cat, and I was like, bro,
Speaker 1: you you're winning the argument. Obviously. When you're like fuck
Speaker 1: your cat, you're winning this argument.
Speaker 3: Okay, as somebody who knows you and Ben, and how
Speaker 3: dare they come after your heat?
Speaker 1: Okay? And like she was fine, but like we were like, what,
Speaker 1: it's fucked up.
Speaker 3: I'm angry.
Speaker 2: I think that all the people, especially when they're at
Speaker 2: the point where they're attacking your cat, that's probably just
Speaker 2: good press for you.
Speaker 3: Point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone today was like, because I said that I
Speaker 1: worked from home when I was, you know, like creating content,
Speaker 1: doing journalism, and they were like, so your office is
Speaker 1: just a front, like to show that you're in the district.
Speaker 1: And I posted a picture of me drafting my response
Speaker 1: in the office, and I was like, you can come
Speaker 1: by the office right now. Like I'm I am recording
Speaker 1: this from the campaign office, as y'all can see my
Speaker 1: field organizer. I'm an astroturft candidate. We all know this.
Speaker 1: Astroturft candidates have twelve thousand individual donors. We all know this.
Speaker 3: I just they came after Heater the babe of a cat.
Speaker 3: She's such a babe. What are you doing Mittens?
Speaker 1: She's just a girly pop Come on this big she's
Speaker 1: so tiny.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's where we're at.
Speaker 3: That's wild.
Speaker 2: Well we're gonna talk about Wait, first, we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about the rest of the people we're here, including
Speaker 2: the other voice you're hearing, which is Sophie Hy Sophie.
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm still really mad about Here.
Speaker 1: Is Anderson back there.
Speaker 3: Anderson is right next to me and her sister Truman
Speaker 3: has taking a nap at her great.
Speaker 2: And Renshaw is asleep at my feet. Incredibly is surprising
Speaker 2: and lucky because he has been running around like wild
Speaker 2: all day.
Speaker 1: Wait is that a dog?
Speaker 2: Yeahh Wrenshaw's my dog.
Speaker 3: In early days of Anderson, back when she was like
Speaker 3: borderline mouldoerish because she was like still a rescue and
Speaker 3: was like a tiny little thing, I had this very
Speaker 3: evil roommate who like in the middle of me being like, no, really,
Speaker 3: you have to pay your rent on time. There's three
Speaker 3: other people who live here.
Speaker 1: She was like, your.
Speaker 3: Dog's fat, and I was like, I'm gonna beat your
Speaker 3: fucking ass. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's the only response you can really have.
Speaker 1: Like she can't advocate for herself. I mean she can
Speaker 1: obviously because she's smart and speaks human language. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, actually Anderson steps in for Sophia sometimes when Sophie isn't.
Speaker 1: That's true. Their voices are identical.
Speaker 3: I'd let Anderson drive my car, okay, like she could
Speaker 3: handle it, Like I would let her handle all of
Speaker 3: my finances, drive my car, and like perform surgery.
Speaker 1: I trust her.
Speaker 3: I know she has no thumbs, but I would trust her.
Speaker 1: So I wish I didn't have thumbs. That would make
Speaker 1: life it's simpler, you know.
Speaker 3: Some nice person would take care of you the way
Speaker 3: I take care of of my dogs.
Speaker 1: It's just Ben.
Speaker 3: It just just Ben's like, oh, good.
Speaker 1: Girl, good girl, Carol.
Speaker 2: Well who takes care of us. Also, Eva is our
Speaker 2: audio editor, and everyone has to say hi, hi.
Speaker 1: Eva, Hiva hi Eva, you for editing this audio. Audio
Speaker 1: editing is source in my opinion, So you're a hero.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: It's the most thankless job. It's actually the with other
Speaker 2: podcasts that I work on. It's absolutely the choke point
Speaker 2: where we're like, oh, we'd like to release more and more,
Speaker 2: Like no one wants to edit this.
Speaker 1: No one wants to edit this, like the benefit of video,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like if you're a DIY podcast, pay your audio
Speaker 2: editors before you pay anyone else, because it is the
Speaker 2: job that doesn't build you a platform. It doesn't like anyway.
Speaker 2: Eva's are audio editor andret and our theme music was
Speaker 2: written for us by unwomen and so recently, uncol people
Speaker 2: did cool stuff I've been thinking about for some weird reason.
Speaker 2: Even as someone who's not particularly in love with the
Speaker 2: concept of the state as a method of human organization
Speaker 2: and society, I've certainly become very aware of a lot
Speaker 2: of really good things that are currently being done for
Speaker 2: us through governmental systems as we watch them get stripped
Speaker 2: away one by one in our society. We talked about
Speaker 2: vaccines last week, and this week we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about the writ of Habeas corpus and what's the cool
Speaker 2: people connection with it. Every single right we have comes
Speaker 2: from somewhere, and usually they come from people who are
Speaker 2: cool or sometimes complicated, people who are probably not cool
Speaker 2: as individuals, but who accomplish something cool, which is honestly
Speaker 2: a little bit more realistic because most of us aren't perfect.
Speaker 2: So I am yeah, I know, that's why. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but most people podcasters are oddly perfect. It's kind of
Speaker 2: strange you'd think that they're not because of the destructive
Speaker 2: effect we've had on society.
Speaker 1: Women podcasters are Oh that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I actually don't have a counterpoint to I'm like, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You had to go through it and you have to
Speaker 1: be like, well, you're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel really bad when Nope, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to talk shit on podcasts in general as the field
Speaker 2: I work in. Anyway, everyone is equally entitled to start
Speaker 2: a podcast, regardless of their gender identity.
Speaker 1: Look I'm not saying you can't start a podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying women podcasters are perfect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and it's hard to compete, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the story of Habeas Corpus, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: explain what it is in a second before we actually
Speaker 2: explain what it is, Habeas Corpus is basically like due process.
Speaker 2: I mean there's a more specific thing, right, but the
Speaker 2: idea that like, they can't just throw you in a
Speaker 2: jail because they feel like it, which is a pretty
Speaker 2: fundamental idea.
Speaker 1: I'm a fan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of its concepts, although not its name, can
Speaker 2: be traced back to pre Roman Britain and the folk
Speaker 2: legal system of different clan groups there. And that's what
Speaker 2: we're gonna do this week because I think it's a
Speaker 2: good story and I think it helps us understand what's
Speaker 2: at stake, because as probably most people who are listening
Speaker 2: to this are aware, or you're listening in the future
Speaker 2: and you're like, ah, I remember when people at Habeas Corpus.
Speaker 1: That was cute.
Speaker 2: The Trump administration is openly talking about considering suspending Habeas Corpus.
Speaker 2: You ever heard of this, I know you? Have you
Speaker 2: ever heard of this? Guy? Named Stephen Miller.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard of him.
Speaker 2: I believe he can legally be described as a right
Speaker 2: wing goon. I think that that's a.
Speaker 1: I would say, like a hard boiled egg that is
Speaker 1: filled with hate instead of an embryo of a chicken.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's fair. Okay, I can picture this man because
Speaker 2: he's the hard boiled egg wear in a suit. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I can't always keep all their origin stories apart. Do
Speaker 2: you remember more about this particular man.
Speaker 1: So, Steven Miller is basically like a Trump goon. He
Speaker 1: helped ray like a bunch of Trump's speeches, and every
Speaker 1: single thing he says is wrong and evil. I've seen
Speaker 1: him way more than most people, or that like any
Speaker 1: human being should. While I was wondering Fox News and
Speaker 1: he comes on essentially says the most racist shit you've
Speaker 1: ever heard from someone's mouth and thinks that it's okay.
Speaker 1: He also has a really annoying voice, especially from a
Speaker 1: party that loves to complain about like vocal fry and
Speaker 1: like especially like women's voices. He sounds like a valley girl.
Speaker 1: It's like listening to any clip of him, and I've
Speaker 1: never heard more of a valley girl voice.
Speaker 2: I've never won to listen to him before, but now
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, maybe I will.
Speaker 1: Next time. You see a clip, just like listen to
Speaker 1: it and you're like, oh my god. It sounds like
Speaker 1: like an early two thousand sexist comedy idea of a bimbo,
Speaker 1: except instead of a hot girl, it's Stephen Miller.
Speaker 2: He's just jealous that he can't twirl his hair around
Speaker 2: his finger.
Speaker 1: Exactly because once again, hardboiled egg. Yeah, so he was
Speaker 1: like a Trump goon and basically helped provide the architecture,
Speaker 1: like the foundation for some of Trump's most racist policies,
Speaker 1: and that's what he continues to do to this day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that tracks because on May ninth, twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: he threatened to suspend habeas corpus, which is basically him
Speaker 2: saying he wants to suspend the rule of law. It
Speaker 2: is the declare marshal law thing. Practically, he said, quote
Speaker 2: that's an option we're actively looking at. Theoretically, in the
Speaker 2: United States, the right to the writ of habeas corpus
Speaker 2: can only be susp bended when, in to quote Article
Speaker 2: one of the Constitution, cases of rebellion or invasion, the
Speaker 2: public safety may require it I think that there is
Speaker 2: a word for a right that can be taken away
Speaker 2: by the government whenever they want, and that word is
Speaker 2: not right. That word is privilege. Because the Constitution says
Speaker 2: that you can take away people's right to habeas corpus.
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be only used in extreme emergencies. But
Speaker 2: here we go. The Trump administration consistently presents the existence
Speaker 2: of migrants and people seeking asylum as an invasion. Trump
Speaker 2: wants wartime powers, so he needs a war, so he's
Speaker 2: calling the border a war. Federal judges keep saying, look,
Speaker 2: immigration is not invasion. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Speaker 2: Even I think the ones who don't like it, the
Speaker 2: shitty ones, there's still like, that's just not actually what
Speaker 2: invasion is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, an invasion you would have like an authority saying
Speaker 1: let's invade this, and not people trying to find a
Speaker 1: better life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what is habeas corpus? Well, it is these
Speaker 2: goods and services. That's what they're trying to take away
Speaker 2: from you. They're trying to take away from you your
Speaker 2: liberty to listen to ads.
Speaker 1: They don't want you to listen to ads and support
Speaker 1: the rule of law.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Here's some ads. You can listen to
Speaker 2: them if you want, or you can skip them. I
Speaker 2: don't care and er back. Habeas corpus. Habeas corpus is
Speaker 2: medieval Latin, is not ancient Latin or whatever. It's medieval Latin,
Speaker 2: and it's Latin for you must have the body for
Speaker 2: a really, really long time. I assume this meant you, like,
Speaker 2: can't get charged with murder if there's no dead body.
Speaker 2: That was just like what I thought it meant. I
Speaker 2: thought it was like, oh, you need like you need
Speaker 2: the evidence, right, Yeah, it actually means body like person.
Speaker 2: I spent a long time. I read like eight articles
Speaker 2: about this, because lots of different people will like to
Speaker 2: argue about what the Latin means, and most articles about
Speaker 2: habeas corpus kind of gloss over this part. I think
Speaker 2: because people understand it, including the people writing those articles.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like how my middle school teacher described it,
Speaker 1: of like you have to have like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, and maybe a legal scholar will tell
Speaker 2: me that I'm wrong, But I spend a really long
Speaker 2: time researching this this week. I think this means body
Speaker 2: like person, like you should have the person who is
Speaker 2: in trouble should be brought to the court for assessment.
Speaker 2: It means bring us this guy. It means like, well,
Speaker 2: let's bring them here and we'll figure it out. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is habeas corpus? To quote the National Constitution Center, the
Speaker 2: writ of habeas corpus is quote a means by which
Speaker 2: a prisoner can test the legality of her detention. A
Speaker 2: person who believes she is being imprisoned illegally can file
Speaker 2: a petition asking a judge to issue a writ of
Speaker 2: habeas corpus. When a prisoner files a petition for a
Speaker 2: writ of habeas corpus, her custodian must explain why the
Speaker 2: restraint is lawful. If the explanation does not satisfy the court,
Speaker 2: they will order the custodian to release her. Basically, this
Speaker 2: is the foundation of the idea that everyone is owed
Speaker 2: their day in court. It is the basis of you
Speaker 2: can't actually just hold people in jail indefinitely without accusing
Speaker 2: them of a crime or setting up a trial. It
Speaker 2: applies to US citizens and non citizens alike, and in
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight it was expanded to include non
Speaker 2: citizens outside the US who were held in US military detention.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of arguing about Guantanamo Bay and
Speaker 2: its legality, and specifically, in two thousand and eight they
Speaker 2: expanded it to include people detained at Guantanamo Bay, but
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six Congress said that it doesn't
Speaker 2: apply to enemy combatants. So I'm sure that if Habeas
Speaker 2: corpus continues, that's what they'll move to next, is they
Speaker 2: will decide that everyone is an enemy combatant. The future
Speaker 2: is bright. I'm wearing shades. It wouldn't be a supposedly
Speaker 2: fundamental right in democracy if it weren't being suspended. Wait,
Speaker 2: I actually can't tell. Oh, you actually put on real shades.
Speaker 2: They look so much like the shades that Zoom can
Speaker 2: put on automatically.
Speaker 1: Like a little filter.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyone who's curious if dad has the cool shades?
Speaker 2: The answer is yes, so fucking cool. So it wouldn't
Speaker 2: be a supposedly fundamental right in democracy if it hadn't
Speaker 2: been suspended. Again and again, it's not without precedent for
Speaker 2: the suspension of Habeas corpus. The way that they're talking
Speaker 2: about doing it is without precedent. The first time we
Speaker 2: suspended this writ was before we were even a country,
Speaker 2: during the Revolutionary War. A bunch of governors became autocrats
Speaker 2: by suspending the Writ of Habeas Corpus, which also goes
Speaker 2: to show that this is an older concept than the Constitution.
Speaker 2: When Habeas corpus is suspended, the executive branch can just
Speaker 2: detain people however it wants, whenever it wants, with no oversight.
Speaker 2: The suspension clause is in the Constitution and it doesn't
Speaker 2: say who gets to do that suspending, And that's what
Speaker 2: a lot of the arguing is about. Right now, it
Speaker 2: has been universally understood that Congress is the one that
Speaker 2: gets to suspend Habeas corpus because one, it's in a
Speaker 2: section where almost everything is talking about Congress, though not
Speaker 2: everything in that section is talking about Congress. And two,
Speaker 2: it confers ultimate power to the executive branch, so like,
Speaker 2: probably the executive branch shouldn't be the one that decides
Speaker 2: to get to do it. It seems to me Habeas Corpus,
Speaker 2: also called the Great Writ, is actually only mentioned in
Speaker 2: the Constitution in the suspension clause. It's not written into
Speaker 2: the Constitution that this exists. Because this is considered such
Speaker 2: a fundamental right that it didn't even get spelled out.
Speaker 2: Everyone just kind of knows about it at the time
Speaker 2: that they're writing the Constitution. The entire clause, the entire
Speaker 2: discussion of habeas corpus in the Constitution is quote, the
Speaker 2: privilege of the rid of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless,
Speaker 2: when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety
Speaker 2: may require it. We've suspended it four times in the past.
Speaker 2: The first time we did it, it was actually first
Speaker 2: enacted by the president. That's the thing that gets like
Speaker 2: messy about all this, right, Like, I think I'm curious
Speaker 2: your take on this, but I think we're focusing on
Speaker 2: the wrong part of this. Everyone's like the president shouldn't
Speaker 2: be able to suspend this. I think everyone should get
Speaker 2: mad whenever this is suspended by anyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it should be like, hey, this
Speaker 1: is the exact amount of time, and also like this
Speaker 1: is how we would justify it. I don't think it
Speaker 1: should be suspended at all. Right, but like if there's
Speaker 1: an alien invasion, I guess, like from outer space. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think of like an Independence Day style scenario here, right,
Speaker 1: I still think the rule of law would be important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you might get like slowed down, you know, like
Speaker 2: I was gonna take you as longer to find a
Speaker 2: judge because half of them got killed by the aliens
Speaker 2: form outer space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like if there was like it should be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the exact amount of time and why we're
Speaker 1: doing it, and like the carveouts, like if there is
Speaker 1: a sci fi reason to do this. I'm really trying
Speaker 1: to like not even play Devil's Advocate here, just trying
Speaker 1: to think of a possible Independence Day was aggressive.
Speaker 2: I mean the first time they suspended it was the
Speaker 2: Civil War, right, Yeah, And actually the first people suspended
Speaker 2: were the Confederacy, So actually the Confederate States of America
Speaker 2: suspended it before the United States of America did. But
Speaker 2: like you can sort of see in a civil war.
Speaker 2: But I'm also still sort of like, well then you
Speaker 2: also have like rules around prisoners of war and it's
Speaker 2: just a different thing, right, And so like actually I
Speaker 2: think civilians should still have to I just think you
Speaker 2: shouldn't be able to throw people in cages unless you
Speaker 2: can say why you're throwing them in a cage in
Speaker 2: a way that satisfies the judge. Yeah, but the previous
Speaker 2: suspensions have also been like I really, well, they actually
Speaker 2: haven't all been great, but they included carbouts. They were like,
Speaker 2: this is what it's going to come kick back in
Speaker 2: and shit like that.
Speaker 1: Gotcha.
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk shit on Abraham Lincoln. This is
Speaker 2: one of my favorite activities. You're lucky that you didn't
Speaker 2: get me talking shit on the Revolutionary War, but you're
Speaker 2: going to get me talk to shit on Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker 2: The first time we did it, it was enacted by
Speaker 2: the President Abraham Lincoln, aka the man who gets credit
Speaker 2: for ending legal chattel slavery in the US, despite I
Speaker 2: don't think he deserves all that much of that credit
Speaker 2: and unjustly avoids getting the blame for overseeing the largest
Speaker 2: mass execution in US history when on December twenty sixth,
Speaker 2: eighteen sixty two, the US hanged thirty eight Dakota people
Speaker 2: who had surrendered in their war against the United States.
Speaker 2: And I want to talk about that. I'm going to
Speaker 2: side quest on that because I think it's important to
Speaker 2: understand when we decide and who we decide. The rule
Speaker 2: of law applies to the Dakota were an independent nation
Speaker 2: at war with the United States and then they surrendered.
Speaker 2: We have rules about that. You're not allowed to execute
Speaker 2: all the enemy soldiers, right. The United States disagrees. When
Speaker 2: the Dakota surrendered, there were huge trials of enemy combatants.
Speaker 2: About three hundred of them were sentenced to death. Abraham
Speaker 2: Lincoln was like, well, I want to show that we're
Speaker 2: tough but fair. I don't know that's his quote, but
Speaker 2: that's his vibe of what he was trying to do.
Speaker 2: So we went ahead and proved the exact opposite. He
Speaker 2: was not fair. First, he was like, well, I'm only
Speaker 2: going to pick the people who are convicted of sexual
Speaker 2: assault as part of the raids. That's how I'm going
Speaker 2: to pick the people I want to kill. But only
Speaker 2: two of the three hundred plus people have been convicted
Speaker 2: of that. So he was like, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: was just hanging these thirty eight people, and all of
Speaker 2: the articles about this are like he personally poured over
Speaker 2: the manuscripts to decide who would die. He couldn't have
Speaker 2: been reading too closely, because at least two of the
Speaker 2: people who had been acquitted were hanged. One was a
Speaker 2: white kid who'd been adopted by the Dakota when he
Speaker 2: was little, who joined in their war against the United States,
Speaker 2: which is a cool thing to do from my point
Speaker 2: of view. His name was Wassakun, and I couldn't find
Speaker 2: a pronunciation for that name. He was picked by Lincoln
Speaker 2: to die despite having been acquitted, as far as I
Speaker 2: can tells just literally an oversight. He claims that he
Speaker 2: was like, I'm picking all these names carefully, and then
Speaker 2: he was just like ah. And then this person, another
Speaker 2: Dakota guy who was named Wi chank washto dom Pi,
Speaker 2: had a super common nickname. So when they called his
Speaker 2: nickname out, he stepped forward, and instead of someone else
Speaker 2: with that nickname, he was executed. And the reason I
Speaker 2: want to linger on this well one is because it
Speaker 2: makes me really angry. When you win at war against
Speaker 2: another country, you don't execute their soldiers. And a professor
Speaker 2: at the University of Minnesota Law School, Carol Chomsky, who
Speaker 2: was husband gnomes the more famous of the two. She
Speaker 2: wrote quote, the trials of the Dakota were conducted unfairly
Speaker 2: in a variety of ways. The evidence was sparse, the
Speaker 2: tribunal was biased, the defendants were unrepresented in unfamiliar proceedings
Speaker 2: conducted in a foreign language, and authority for convening the
Speaker 2: tribunal was lacking. More fundamentally, neither the military commission nor
Speaker 2: the reviewing authorities recognized that they were dealing with the
Speaker 2: aftermath of a war fought with a sovereign nation, and
Speaker 2: the men who surrendered were entitled to treatment in accordance
Speaker 2: with that status. In order to mass execute these people,
Speaker 2: the town had to declare martial law and forbid the
Speaker 2: sale of alcohol because four thousand races showed up to
Speaker 2: celebrate the hanging. So following the rule of law has
Speaker 2: never been the US's strong suit, even with one of
Speaker 2: the most venerated presidents we've had, But people have tried
Speaker 2: to make it follow the law right like even in
Speaker 2: this case there was a try. There shouldn't have been
Speaker 2: a trial from my point of view because the prisoner
Speaker 2: of war thing. But I don't know you whatever, and
Speaker 2: so getting rid of habeas corpus is like just getting
Speaker 2: rid of fucking even the pretense. Abraham Lincoln suspended the
Speaker 2: rid of habeas corpus during the Civil War. This pissed
Speaker 2: everyone off because everyone assumed it took an Act of
Speaker 2: Congress to do that. He did it while there was
Speaker 2: a specific case happening and Congress wasn't in session as
Speaker 2: soon as Congress was in session. They were like yayay, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fine. They like passed the thing that was like,
Speaker 2: it's fine that Lincoln did that.
Speaker 1: What was the court case?
Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of it. I stopped side
Speaker 2: questing as far I cut back at a certain point.
Speaker 2: It was a saboteur from the Confederacy, I think who
Speaker 2: was arrested in the North. And I don't know why
Speaker 2: that trial wasn't a military trial. I don't know why
Speaker 2: that was a civil trial. It might have been because
Speaker 2: he was a citizen of the Northern States, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: And so I don't know the details of why not
Speaker 2: enemy combatant in that context thought it. The next time
Speaker 2: I was suspended was during reconstruction. This is probably the
Speaker 2: one that I have the most sympathy for. It was
Speaker 2: suspended during reconstruction in either nine or eleven counties in
Speaker 2: South Carolina, depending on your source, in order to fight
Speaker 2: the KKK, although I would still argue that fucking clansmen
Speaker 2: deserve it to be told that there are clansmen, you know,
Speaker 2: like you need to be able to accuse them of
Speaker 2: a crime. And then it was suspended in the Philippines
Speaker 2: in nineteen oh five when they tried not to be
Speaker 2: a colonial territory anymore, and then in Hawaii after Pearl
Speaker 2: Harbor in nineteen forty one, this led to martial law
Speaker 2: in Hawaii. This is unrelated to the Japanese internment of
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty thousand Japanese Americans who were kept
Speaker 2: in concentration camps during World War Two, which was done
Speaker 2: by executive order. The argument I would make is that
Speaker 2: rights aren't granted to us by the state. There are
Speaker 2: concessions that people win from the state that we defend
Speaker 2: through legislation, through organizing, and through direct action. That's habeas corpus,
Speaker 2: the right to demand a legal justification for why you're
Speaker 2: being captain in a cage.
Speaker 1: I'd also just like distress for people on this, like
Speaker 1: habeas corpus. It's not just like, oh, you know, you're
Speaker 1: accused of being a terrorist, and so we're putting you
Speaker 1: in this cell even if like you're not. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be like political motivated reasoning. You could
Speaker 1: get a parking ticket and they could just throw you
Speaker 1: in jail for the rest of your life. You could
Speaker 1: jaywalk and be executed by the state and there would
Speaker 1: be no problem with that. It's not just if you're
Speaker 1: thinking habeas corpus is suspended, that's bad. But like I'm
Speaker 1: safe because I'm not you know, a political figure, or
Speaker 1: I haven't committed a crime does not matter. You could
Speaker 1: literally just be hanging out listening to music in your
Speaker 1: home and the state would be justified to throw you
Speaker 1: in prison for the rest of your life because they
Speaker 1: don't like you or the color of your house is
Speaker 1: the wrong shade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they don't have to prove, you know, if
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, well MS thirteen doesn't deserve due process
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, well you're MS thirteen, you're like, well,
Speaker 2: no I'm not. You're like, well, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: give you a chance to prove.
Speaker 1: It, right, Like if you're wearing a Chicago Bulls hat,
Speaker 1: that now means you're MS thirteen. So and Chicago Bulls
Speaker 1: gear can just be sent to a concentration camp overseas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where we're at. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the idea of like, oh, you have tattoos, so
Speaker 2: you're in a gang, And it's like have you met
Speaker 2: anyone under the age of like fifty five? Like do
Speaker 2: you have any friends who are under the age of
Speaker 2: fifty five, they have tattoos. Like that's done. That's over that.
Speaker 2: Like we all have nose rings and we all have tattoos.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all have IUDs yeah, and we all yeah,
Speaker 1: we take birth control. We take birth control very scary,
Speaker 1: and we have internet access like sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so hey, yas corpus as a specific named thing.
Speaker 2: And also just the concept of it comes into the
Speaker 2: US from English common law, like so much of the
Speaker 2: American legal system, and I just took that as like
Speaker 2: common law. I don't know what that means. It means folks,
Speaker 2: see right, which isn't actually entirely off. Common law is
Speaker 2: the law that's not so much built up out of
Speaker 2: legislation but is built upon precedent. It's the what we do.
Speaker 2: And actually that is an important part of the American
Speaker 2: legal system as well. Precedent is at least as important
Speaker 2: as you know, legislation in terms of how laws are
Speaker 2: happening and the history of English common law. I usually
Speaker 2: I try to avoid English history, like whenever I can
Speaker 2: on this show because I'm tired of it and they
Speaker 2: get too much airway me.
Speaker 1: Watching Jeopardy, Like whenever there's a category that's like different
Speaker 1: English kings and queens.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I don't know. I can't bring myself to
Speaker 2: care about who beget whom on an island that was
Speaker 2: a backwater until it suddenly ruled the entire world.
Speaker 1: Everyone has the same name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like keeping track of pope's names. You're like,
Speaker 2: but you all use the same one. That's not fair.
Speaker 1: I want someone to pick like a pope name like
Speaker 1: trans woman, pick their name or against then like or
Speaker 1: like literally a transition like Pope Lavender, or like if
Speaker 1: you're an envy, it's like pope cyberpunk. Like, let's do it,
Speaker 1: let's try it.
Speaker 2: I will say the name Pope Innocent is a pretty like.
Speaker 2: I just finished watching Covenant, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, Conclave, Conclave, different movie, different movie, thank.
Speaker 1: You, thank you.
Speaker 2: Wait up, what's Covenant? It's it a war movie.
Speaker 3: It's a horror movie. It's like an I think there's
Speaker 3: like a non horror movie.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, what would everyone's pope name be?
Speaker 2: Now? Crap? Uh, well, I already picked Margaret.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Magdalen. I don't know what about you all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll Gooe Magdalen or just like cut to the
Speaker 1: chase and pope prostitute, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, go all in.
Speaker 1: No, there are so many cool pope names though, it's
Speaker 1: hard to keep track of.
Speaker 3: But yeah, Francis was actually a really good one because
Speaker 3: he's the patron sat of animals.
Speaker 2: I know. Actually Francis is like if I was a boy,
Speaker 2: I'd probably pick Francis. I kind of like him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've heard that like one of the reasons
Speaker 1: he chose Pope Leo was because of like the last
Speaker 1: Pope Leo's like focus on the industrial Revolution and then
Speaker 1: like AI and tech, which is like it's really cool
Speaker 1: when people like the names are picked for specific reasons,
Speaker 1: and it's always interesting to see why I have them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, honestly, I mean, who knows what will
Speaker 2: happen by the time anyone's listening to this in the future.
Speaker 2: I was really grateful that that they picked someone who's
Speaker 2: like on the right side about Palestine more than anything else,
Speaker 2: like geopolitical shit, Like we're not going to get a
Speaker 2: Catholic pope who thinks that trans women are women.
Speaker 3: But like they could have picked a like absolute like
Speaker 3: evil monster who hates every There were options like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the like.
Speaker 1: Like people talk about the popes, and I'm like, guys,
Speaker 1: it's the fucking pope, like this man's legs that migrants
Speaker 1: are people?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like happy for that.
Speaker 3: It was like the fucking NFL NBA draft. That's how
Speaker 3: it was being reported on. And like there was like
Speaker 3: certain people where they would like have like their name
Speaker 3: and like what they support, and there was like one
Speaker 3: motherfucker where it was like this dude supports fucking nobody.
Speaker 3: What do you mean.
Speaker 2: It's like I did.
Speaker 1: Love the Conclave fancams. That was so funny, so funny.
Speaker 2: What were the fancams?
Speaker 1: Just people like people putting together like fancams of different
Speaker 1: possible nominees for the pope. Oh shit, Yeah, it was incredible.
Speaker 2: I didn't follow this as closely as you all. I
Speaker 2: had friends who were following it closely who would message
Speaker 2: me about it. Someone messaged me on the day that
Speaker 2: it was Annown, message me Conclave and I was like,
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it yet, and they're like, no, the
Speaker 2: real one.
Speaker 1: Amazing.
Speaker 2: And then I watched the movie.
Speaker 1: It's a great movie.
Speaker 2: Yes, such a good movie. I was honestly like, it's
Speaker 2: like up my alley in a lot of ways because
Speaker 2: I like weird history and like weird Catholic shit.
Speaker 3: But like Catholicism is cinematic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Minds is such a good actor, but it is
Speaker 1: so disappointing how he pronounces his name.
Speaker 3: I know it is mac Quid. Doesn't know who that is.
Speaker 3: It's the lead guy from the movie the guy. Who's
Speaker 3: the guy, the guy? Okay, yeah, yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Guy and his name is spelled Ralph Fiennis. That has
Speaker 1: pronounced ray fines. Yeah, it's really fucked up. Honestly, I say,
Speaker 1: as someone with the last name of Abu Gazol is
Speaker 1: a weird.
Speaker 3: Name, and you're right.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Magpie, No, it's okay. I don't know how to
Speaker 2: transition ads. But here's some ads. Maybe one of them
Speaker 2: is for a pope. I don't know, they're probably not.
Speaker 2: I think we have that probably is a band category.
Speaker 2: We probably don't get religion ads. I hope we don't.
Speaker 2: We try not do whatever you want around religion. They're
Speaker 2: all fine and all bad equally. Here's the ads and
Speaker 2: we're back, and we totally didn't spend all of the
Speaker 2: time during the ads talking about attractive cardinals in the
Speaker 2: movie Stanley Tucci, I think I would actually be better
Speaker 2: at all this. It's like, I actually do watch a
Speaker 2: lot of movies and TV and all that shit. I
Speaker 2: just I'm a weird combo of face blind and don't
Speaker 2: pay attention to names unless they're like literally in the
Speaker 2: history books that I'm running scripts about. And so whenever
Speaker 2: I watch movies with people, I'm like, wait, which one's
Speaker 2: that guy? And they're like, literally the main character. We've
Speaker 2: been watching this TV show for a week, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: but he's wearing a different coat.
Speaker 1: I understand that struggle.
Speaker 2: No one can change clothes run. He's an outfit. That's
Speaker 2: how we can track them. So there's this way that
Speaker 2: people tend to understand the origins of Western democracy, and
Speaker 2: I'm going to argue that this particular way of thinking
Speaker 2: about things is incomplete. The usual story seems to start
Speaker 2: with autocracy, you start with the king, you start with
Speaker 2: ye oldie sortie times, and everything is only England, and
Speaker 2: England's the only thing that matters. But unfortunately we're stuck
Speaker 2: with it because they exported law all over the world.
Speaker 2: So we got to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Wait, are we just skipping over like Athens and such?
Speaker 2: Well, in this context, yes, because I'm not going to
Speaker 2: track from Greek democracy, I'm going to attract from like
Speaker 2: folk democracy coming from gotcha. And actually, interestingly, I think
Speaker 2: the Roman legal system doesn't influence the English legal system
Speaker 2: as much as the folks moot stuff that we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about, but fascinating, but I'm not certain about that.
Speaker 2: I know there is Roman influence. So when people talk
Speaker 2: about the like you have the only sort of times
Speaker 2: of kings and monarchs and some rich nobles underneath them,
Speaker 2: and then people are like, bo, what about democracy? And
Speaker 2: I guess those people actually usually are reference in Greek
Speaker 2: democracy when they claim these things. In this telling, it
Speaker 2: is rich people clamoring for democracy. The merchant classes, the
Speaker 2: people who got rich through the economic system that will
Speaker 2: eventually create capitalism, are usually in the sort of English
Speaker 2: and Western European sense, presented as the people who sort
Speaker 2: of first are doing the voting, creating the parliaments and
Speaker 2: the constitutions. The English Civil War is an example of this.
Speaker 2: The rich overthrow the king for a while, and they're
Speaker 2: actually worse to the poor overall, and they also genocide
Speaker 2: the Irish, so I'm pretty mad about that. Then the
Speaker 2: king comes back. But the work of building democracy in
Speaker 2: the story is largely done by the rich slowly getting
Speaker 2: more power through parliamentary systems or whatever. Only later do
Speaker 2: the poor start having their way. By the time of
Speaker 2: the French Revolution, the rich get better at turning poor
Speaker 2: people against the nobility. But again usually it's the bourgeois
Speaker 2: classes that are doing well in this reading. In this
Speaker 2: story of the origins of democracy, it rises at the
Speaker 2: same time as capitalism, and not coincidentally capitalism, the rule
Speaker 2: of the rich is democracy in this telling. Most versions
Speaker 2: of the history of Habeas corpus tie into this version
Speaker 2: of events, because when you look up the history of
Speaker 2: Habeas Corpus, you're going to get and it's not wrong
Speaker 2: this stuff. But you start with the Magna Carta, which
Speaker 2: is the first western constitution in Europe. This is a
Speaker 2: really good example of they have no names. They have
Speaker 2: one name. They literally could all be named King John.
Speaker 2: If you read me anything that happened during English history,
Speaker 2: if it happened more than two hundred years ago, and
Speaker 2: named the King John, I would just believe you with
Speaker 2: a straight face. King John had just lost a war
Speaker 2: with France, and he was trying to get the barons
Speaker 2: to pay him what was called scootage or scuttage or
Speaker 2: some shit, which is basically, look, I'm either going to
Speaker 2: can script you or you give me money, which is
Speaker 2: a fairly common way to get money for your war.
Speaker 2: The Confederacy were really good at this too. Honestly, the
Speaker 2: Union probably did it too. Everyone fucking does this shit
Speaker 2: give me money to rebuild a military. He had also
Speaker 2: just been excommunicated by our friend, the Pope. I believe innocent.
Speaker 2: I think it was one of the innocents, but I
Speaker 2: might actually not sure. I literally didn't put the Pope
Speaker 2: name in here, and it only comes up because we
Speaker 2: were just talking about it. He's extra unpopular, this King John.
Speaker 2: In twelve fifteen, a bunch of barons led a rebellion.
Speaker 2: They conquered London and King John surrendered. Rather than depose him,
Speaker 2: they made him sign a document giving rich people more rights.
Speaker 2: This is called the Magna Carta. Is the first written
Speaker 2: constitution in Europe. It really and truly was for rich people.
Speaker 2: Peasants didn't gain shit out of it for centuries, but
Speaker 2: it includes the seed of habeas corpus. Article thirty nine
Speaker 2: of it says quote no Freeman, which is a pretty
Speaker 2: important emphasis right there. No freeman shall be taken or imprisoned,
Speaker 2: but by the lawful judgment of his peers, or by
Speaker 2: the rule of the land. And like what a thing
Speaker 2: to have to write down, like rite you have to
Speaker 2: break the law to go to jail, you know, or
Speaker 2: you have to get accused of breaking the law to
Speaker 2: go to jail. Do you know when the poor started
Speaker 2: getting their rights in England during this time? The fucking
Speaker 2: Black Death when half the population died, of thirty to
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the population died, there's a labor shortage.
Speaker 1: That's some leverage, baby, Yeah, that's some fucking leverage.
Speaker 2: Most of the articles you'll find about this, if they're
Speaker 2: not like academic articles specifically about this, very specifically, are
Speaker 2: pointing out the comparison to the COVID era. No one
Speaker 2: wants to work anymore when people actually start having to
Speaker 2: pay decent wages. Yeah, and so the peasants around this
Speaker 2: time managed to get wages two or three times higher,
Speaker 2: and a lot of times they still were like, no,
Speaker 2: I just straight up don't want to work, Like everyone
Speaker 2: I know just died, and I assume I'm about to die,
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't feel like right selling my
Speaker 2: precious time on this earth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not like they need to like get
Speaker 1: a bunch of money to you know, buy products and services.
Speaker 1: If you want a transition, yeah, we already did it.
Speaker 1: If you don't, this is just a really good transition
Speaker 1: that's been missed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, especially since I really.
Speaker 1: That last look, just imagine that that was the one
Speaker 1: we used last and yeah, we're all good.
Speaker 2: You know what, let's just throw it an extra ad
Speaker 2: for potatoes.
Speaker 1: Potatoes delicious, that's the ad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to grow a bunch of my porch
Speaker 2: again right now. I will probably fail like previous times
Speaker 2: because I refuse to read instructions, But tomatoes are easier
Speaker 2: to grow than potatoes. I'm just gonna say it anyway. Also,
Speaker 2: during the Black Death, really silver lining here. The Black
Speaker 2: Death was very bad. The silver lining here.
Speaker 1: The very like rusted over silver lining. Yeah, the one
Speaker 1: that needs to be polished a hell of a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah one you got to like wade through the corpses
Speaker 2: of your family to get to It's bad. A lot
Speaker 2: of property reverted to the commons just by default, because
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff was abandoned because a lot of
Speaker 2: people died, and it didn't overall pick poor versus rich
Speaker 2: who died, you know, because they didn't understand how disease works.
Speaker 2: Now that people understand how disease works, disease kills poor
Speaker 2: people more. It's great. Not coincidentally, the rights of women
Speaker 2: evolved after the Black Death as well, specifically a lot
Speaker 2: of like property rights because they're like, well who owns this?
Speaker 2: And you're like, well, my husband, did you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I do? Now, fuck you, there's nobody around. By the
Speaker 2: seventeenth century, Parliament was fighting the king again. Sixteen seventy nine,
Speaker 2: you get the Habeas Corpus Act. This doesn't create Habeas
Speaker 2: corpus that already exists. It gives deadlines for responding to
Speaker 2: rits of Habeas corpus. It starts being like, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: you actually got to take that shit seriously. If a
Speaker 2: prisoner is like, hey, why am I in here, you
Speaker 2: actually have a timeline that you got to give them
Speaker 2: an answer. And from there it passed into the US Constitution.
Speaker 2: It remains there to this day. Although nineteen ninety six
Speaker 2: Congress passed the Anti Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act
Speaker 2: I put a bunch of limitations on rits of habeas
Speaker 2: corpus mostly around, like you could kind of write them
Speaker 2: over and over again. You're on death row, Like why not,
Speaker 2: you know, just be like, hey, why am I in here?
Speaker 3: Hey?
Speaker 2: Why am I in here? And then you get this
Speaker 2: argument about Guantanamo Bay in two thousand and five and
Speaker 2: two thousand and six, they were like, heyeas corpus does
Speaker 2: not apply to people in Guantanamo Bay. Two thousand and
Speaker 2: eight Supreme Court said, yeah, it does. This is a
Speaker 2: true retelling. But I want to go back further because
Speaker 2: I think it is a dangerous myth to entangle the
Speaker 2: rise of democracy with the rise of capitalism and tie
Speaker 2: it specifically to the Magna Carta, as if that were
Speaker 2: like just fully formed out of their heads. They were like, well,
Speaker 2: what if we do this thing? You know what if
Speaker 2: we have a parliament, right, even if we keep our
Speaker 2: narrative in England, we can tell a completely different story
Speaker 2: by telling a larger story, a story I consider more accurate.
Speaker 2: It is a story about how democratic practices and ideas
Speaker 2: around due process actually originate way earlier, originating in tribal
Speaker 2: or clan structures going back to the second millennium BC,
Speaker 2: and most specifically, we can discuss them during the quote
Speaker 2: unquote Dark Ages, the era between the end of Roman
Speaker 2: rule in the early four hundreds and the Norman conquest
Speaker 2: of ten sixty six. These ideas about bottom up decision
Speaker 2: making and non punitive justice systems were just under the surface.
Speaker 2: Western democracy would be a whole lot better and a
Speaker 2: whole lot more democratic if it recognized its actual roots.
Speaker 2: There's this old joke, what do I think about Western democracy?
Speaker 2: Sounds like a good idea. Someone should try it, but
Speaker 2: I know, thank you, which could lead very well into
Speaker 2: this is the end of the episode. We're gonna talk about, well,
Speaker 2: all the shit that I just pitched and cliffhangered on Wednesday.
Speaker 2: What do you got to plug here at the end?
Speaker 2: Like someone trying Western democracy? That was my setup, but
Speaker 2: then I ruined it by over explaining it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I'm running for Congress in the ninth
Speaker 1: District of Illinois, and you can find what I'm about
Speaker 1: at Cappreillinois dot com. That's Cat with a K. We
Speaker 1: just recently made our volunteer discord server public, so come hang.
Speaker 1: We need local and remote volunteers, and if you've got
Speaker 1: a few bucks to spare it consider sending them to
Speaker 1: my campaign. This is a grassroots progressive campaign. We're taking
Speaker 1: zero corporate money, and we're also trying to use our
Speaker 1: money in smarter, more effective ways that actually help people.
Speaker 1: So if you got a few bucks to spare, consider
Speaker 1: sending them our away. Our average donation is just about
Speaker 1: thirty one bucks. And so instead of wasting it on
Speaker 1: consultants who haven't won elections in a decade, or ads
Speaker 1: that aren't actually effective and are just kind of plastered everywhere,
Speaker 1: we're trying to do things like mutual aid and direct action.
Speaker 1: So like we just in exchange for a food donation,
Speaker 1: we gave people yard signs. We were able to fully
Speaker 1: stock a food pantry last weekend our kickoff event to
Speaker 1: keep it accessible. It wasn't like five hundred dollars a plate.
Speaker 1: You had to bring a box of Pazard tampons, and
Speaker 1: we ended up collecting our fifty six hundred for people
Speaker 1: who can't afford them. And we just launch our high
Speaker 1: school public service grant program for kids who want to
Speaker 1: do mutual aid projects this summer. Yeah, Catfreillinois dot com.
Speaker 1: Come hang and hope to see in the discord.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, And if people want to hear us talking
Speaker 2: more about other stuff. Kat was on a year or
Speaker 2: so ago. We talked about community gardens.
Speaker 1: Actually almost yeah, it was the day I got laid off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh congrats.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. That was the day I got laid
Speaker 1: off and I was like bailing. And actually that episode
Speaker 1: like we want to help kids build community gardens with
Speaker 1: this grant program, and that partially inspired it. So thank
Speaker 1: you for that.
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, well thanks to the people who built
Speaker 2: all those community gardens and too. Yeah, and listen to
Speaker 2: other podcasts if they exist, Sophie. Are their other podcasts?
Speaker 3: Yeah, cools and Media dot com.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, Well, see you all on Wednesday.
Speaker 3: Bye, cool people who did cool stuff. It's a production
Speaker 3: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,
Speaker 3: visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us
Speaker 3: out on the I Heard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts.