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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iheartradioch.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And this is Joe McCormick, and hey, if everything is

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Speaker 3: going according to plan, this should have published the moment

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Speaker 3: after midnight on the night of Halloween. So so happy Halloween, everybody.

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Speaker 3: We are bringing you horror accordingly. Today we're going to

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Speaker 3: be talking about the nineteen eighty seven John Carpenter horror

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Speaker 3: film Prince of Darkness. And somehow I think this is

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Speaker 3: our first John Carpenter movie.

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Speaker 2: It is, and we did talk about the Carpenter produced

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Speaker 2: and Carpenter scored Halloween three a while back, but this

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Speaker 2: is the very first time we're actually going to be

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Speaker 2: talking about a John Carpenter directed film, and we managed

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Speaker 2: to wait until our one hundred and eightieth Weird House

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Speaker 2: Cinema selection to do this, So some of you might

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Speaker 2: find that a little surprising. I kind of find it

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Speaker 2: a little surprising, I guess in retrospect, because obviously you

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Speaker 2: and I are both big John Carpenter fans. Some of

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Speaker 2: his films are among our favorites, and we keep talking

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Speaker 2: about them on the show anytime there's a John Carpenter

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Speaker 2: connection in a movie or in a core episode of

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Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow your Mind. We'll talk about it, Lord knows,

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about it. Why did it take us so long? Though,

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Speaker 2: you know, I despite the fact that obviously we really

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Speaker 2: like John Carpenter films, and we also have listeners writing

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Speaker 2: and suggesting John Carpenter films a lot. I'll have to

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Speaker 2: get your thoughts on this, Joe. But for my own part,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I've always kind of been reluctant to

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Speaker 2: tackle one of like the all time great favorite John

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Speaker 2: Carpenter films, you know, something like The Thing or Big

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Speaker 2: Trouble in Little China, because they're just so well known,

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Speaker 2: they're beloved and in some respects kind of perfect in

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Speaker 2: their own way. And on the other hand, I've been

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Speaker 2: perhaps more tempted to cover something like Ghosts of Mars,

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Speaker 2: one of his late period pictures, but it also felt

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Speaker 2: wrong for our first Carpenter selection to be one of

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Speaker 2: his less well received movies. So I think nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: seven's Prince of Darkness is perhaps the perfect pick. It's

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Speaker 2: Carpenter during his heyday and also Carpenter at peak creative control.

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Speaker 2: It's also one of his truly weirdest films, I think,

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Speaker 2: and it has a strong cult following.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a Carpenter sleeper the sleeper awakens. In fact,

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Speaker 3: even some people who are fans probably haven't seen this one.

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Speaker 3: Took me a long time after, you know, I first

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Speaker 3: started watching Halloween, An Escape from New York and all

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Speaker 3: the big ones everybody sees first to get around to

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Speaker 3: Prince of Darkness, and when I did, I was quite

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Speaker 3: wowed by it. It remains very much in the top

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Speaker 3: tier of horror movies for me, especially in.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's a great example of a concept we've talked about

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Speaker 3: on the show that I I think maybe applies more

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Speaker 3: to John Carpenter films than to anything else, and that

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Speaker 3: is a rub the fur movie. Prince of Darkness is

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Speaker 3: a rub the fur movie. It is about a textural experience,

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Speaker 3: an experience of sights and sounds that conjures a mood.

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Speaker 3: This movie is absolutely amazing at creating a feeling and

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Speaker 3: a mood through its use of music, through its use

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Speaker 3: of imagery, through its use of interesting ideas, and I

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Speaker 3: really like the way that it throws different themes together.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that I think must have

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Speaker 3: been behind John Carpenter's like creative process for Prince of

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Speaker 3: Darkness is he must have read like a pop physics

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Speaker 3: book or watched a documentary about quantum mechanics. Because this

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Speaker 3: movie is full of ideas about both science and religion.

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Speaker 3: He was trying to do some kind of sort of

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Speaker 3: sort of Christian infused but also sort of maybe Lovecraftian

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Speaker 3: or Eldritch demonic awakening idea, but then also mixing that

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Speaker 3: with ideas about quantum weirdness, some stuff about astronomy. He's

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Speaker 3: clearly like trying to put a bunch of different kinds

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Speaker 3: of themes that are usually kept separate into the blender.

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Speaker 3: And that's an impulse I really like. And I think

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Speaker 3: if you don't look too close at the way he

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Speaker 3: uses the scientific ideas, it really works. If you start

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Speaker 3: if you actually know what he's talking about, and start like,

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Speaker 3: you know, reading between the lines too much, it kind

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Speaker 3: of falls apart. But if you just lean back, you

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Speaker 3: kind of you kind of tune out just a little

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Speaker 3: bit during the scientific parts. I think it is super nice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean this this is ultimately a pretty

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Speaker 2: ambitious film, right, I mean, it's from a number of

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Speaker 2: standpoints it's like it was a three million dollar picture.

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Speaker 2: It was an independent picture coming off of a lot

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Speaker 2: of studio work for car and it attempts to weave

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Speaker 2: in all of these quantum physics and quantum mechanics ideas

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Speaker 2: that the Carpenter says that he'd been reading a lot

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Speaker 2: of this kind of thing, he'd read several books about

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Speaker 2: quantum mechanics, and that it had kind of like a

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Speaker 2: profound impact on him, Like he described it as kind

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Speaker 2: of like a shift in worldview based on what he

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Speaker 2: was reading. So you have that going on, and then

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Speaker 2: at the same time, this is something that really came

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Speaker 2: out when I was listening to the commentary track for

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Speaker 2: this film, which I'll discuss more about that in a bit.

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Speaker 2: But he's talking with one of the actors in the picture,

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Speaker 2: Peter Jason, and it's neat because Jason, of course is

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Speaker 2: coming at it with a very actor's standpoint when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the questions he's asking Carpenter about the production

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Speaker 2: and the process, and Carpenter of course is approaching it

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Speaker 2: from the view of the director and the writer, but

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Speaker 2: especially from the standpoint of the director. And I think

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Speaker 2: one detail that kind of from the commentary track that

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Speaker 2: kind of highlights these different views is when they're talking

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Speaker 2: about the scenes where they're first going down into the basement.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to the basement and all this as you know,

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Speaker 2: this sort of ruinous basement that is lit by like

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Speaker 2: hundreds of candles, and and you know, they're kind of

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Speaker 2: having fun with the picture, riffing almost a certain extent,

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Speaker 2: and Jason's like, who who let all these candles? And

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Speaker 2: and you know, Carpenter's like, well, you know, this is

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Speaker 2: just this is just great lighting. You know, this just

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Speaker 2: it just looks really cool, you know. And and I

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Speaker 2: think that gets to the rub the fur aspect of

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Speaker 2: the picture. And then rub the fur, you know, you

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Speaker 2: can talk about again. You can definitely think about it

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Speaker 2: in terms of just sights and sounds, but it's also

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Speaker 2: there in the ideas, you know, in the way ideas

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Speaker 2: are sprinkled through it. And it's not only about like

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Speaker 2: what is given to you, but oh also what's not

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Speaker 2: given to you. There are a number of scenes in

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Speaker 2: this picture where we get audio free clips of characters

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Speaker 2: clearly discussing the implications of whatever is going on. So

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Speaker 2: we don't even have all the details. We just have

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Speaker 2: you know, various nuggets of quanto physics and theology thrown

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Speaker 2: at us. And you know again, Yeah, if you lean

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Speaker 2: back into the chair and you let them wash over you,

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Speaker 2: it's a pretty great experience.

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Speaker 3: I agree. I think that's exactly right, and I would

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Speaker 3: phrase it this way. I think the use of both

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Speaker 3: science and religion, the scientific and religious themes in the

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Speaker 3: movie is primarily esthetic. It is not primarily about how

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Speaker 3: either one actually works or what is actually true. It's

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Speaker 3: to create an aesthetic effect. And that's not a bad thing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, I think it is used quite well

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Speaker 3: as another type of texture. It's an idea texture, a theme,

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Speaker 3: texture that fits in with the sights and sounds and

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Speaker 3: ultimately the whole. It's all adding up to a feeling,

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Speaker 3: a mood, and it is a powerful, powerful mood.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what. I have an elevator pitch

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Speaker 2: for this movie, and it is the following. The Devil's

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Speaker 2: in the details and also in a big cylinder of

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Speaker 2: green liquid.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's it's an idea that works better

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Speaker 3: in practice than it does in theory. If you were

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Speaker 3: to actually explain the concept here that yeah, Satan is

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Speaker 3: physically real and he is a volume of green liquid

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Speaker 3: inside a jar. I don't know. That just doesn't sound

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Speaker 3: as effective as the movie actually is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think in one of our most recent episodes

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Speaker 2: of Weird House, or maybe it was a core episode,

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Speaker 2: I mentioned in Passing like movies that talk about evil

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Speaker 2: as an actual physical presence or substance, and this movie

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Speaker 2: kind of gets into that territory, but also ultimately I

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Speaker 2: think makes it work within the context of the film

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Speaker 2: in ways that it maybe doesn't in others.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we were talking about this in the House of

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Speaker 3: Ushare episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Well, let's go ahead and listen to

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Speaker 2: a little bit of trailer audio here, which is we're

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Speaker 2: not going to listen to the whole trailer, but hopefully

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Speaker 2: we'll get just a little splash of some of the

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Speaker 2: dialogue from it, and a little taste of that excellent

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Speaker 2: John Carpenter Alan Howarth's score that we're going to be

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Speaker 2: talking about. H h H. All right. Uh, so, hey,

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Speaker 2: if you want to go see Prince of Darkness before

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Speaker 2: we proceed here, it is widely available. Uh you know,

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Speaker 2: you can stream it, you can rent it, you can

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Speaker 2: buy it physically. I watched it on the Shout Factory

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Speaker 2: Blu Ray, which is pretty great, complete with three bonus

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Speaker 2: interviews and a full audio commentary track from Carpenter and

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Speaker 2: actor Peter Jason, who has a minor part here but

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Speaker 2: is a friend and frequent Carpenter cast member. This was

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Speaker 2: his first Carpenter film. Carpenter's audio commentaries with folks are

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Speaker 2: always entertaining and insightful. This one's no exception. I actually,

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Speaker 2: I generally say I don't have time for audio commentaries

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Speaker 2: on movies anymore, and that's mostly true. And yet somehow

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Speaker 2: I ended up watching this movie all the way through

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Speaker 2: and then watching half of it again with the commentary track.

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Speaker 2: It's just that get.

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Speaker 3: I remember listening to a Carpenter and Jamie Lee Curtis

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Speaker 3: commentary track somewhere that was adorable.

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Speaker 2: It was great. Oh yeah I haven't I haven't done

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Speaker 2: that one. But yeah, they're generally very well regarded. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's just very cool to hear Carpenter, you know, shoot

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Speaker 2: the ball with people that clearly he you know, pre

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Speaker 2: picks knowing that this is somebody that he has rapport

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Speaker 2: with and can chat with about the film.

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Speaker 3: I think Peter Jason does he play the He's like

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Speaker 3: a chemistry professor in this movie who spends a significant

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Speaker 3: amount of time walking around doing like kazoo noises with

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Speaker 3: his mouth.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's the one.

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Speaker 3: Peter, I've got the perfect part for you.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, let's let's talk about the folks involved here,

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Speaker 2: starting of course with John Carpenter. He directed it, He

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Speaker 2: wrote it under a pseudonym, but it's pretty obvious that,

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Speaker 2: you know, everyone knows this is a John Carpenter scripted film.

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Speaker 3: Did he call himself Martin quator Mass.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, a reference to the to the to the

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Speaker 2: films that he was inspired by. That also, you know,

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Speaker 2: have some direct inspiration on the plot of this picture,

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Speaker 2: you know, ancient evil buried beneath the ground, that sort

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Speaker 2: of thing.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 2: And of course yes he did the score as well.

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Speaker 2: Born nineteen forty eight, living legend director of some of

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Speaker 2: the most iconic horror and sci fi films of the

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Speaker 2: late seventies and the entire nineteen eighties, who also played

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Speaker 2: a very key role in the birth of an entire dark,

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Speaker 2: ambient synth wave sound like there's just you know, there

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Speaker 2: are other important influences on that kind of sound out

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Speaker 2: there from horror and sci fi soundtrack. But John Carpenter

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Speaker 2: is a very important part of that equation.

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Speaker 3: I had some plans to talk about this later, but

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Speaker 3: I might as well mention it now. I think that

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Speaker 3: John Carpenter not only creates great scores electronic scores for

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Speaker 3: his own movies. I think in many cases the movie

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Speaker 3: is only as effective as it is with his score.

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Speaker 3: Not to take away from the rest of the movie.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, you know, he's got a great sense

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Speaker 3: of word up put the camera. You know, he's got

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Speaker 3: a good photographic style, and I like the stories he

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Speaker 3: writes and all that. So other filmmaking elements are strong

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Speaker 3: as well, but it is the score or he creates

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Speaker 3: for the film that locks it all into place, that

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Speaker 3: creates the feeling that you associate with the movie. Try

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Speaker 3: to imagine Halloween without the John Carpenter score, just suben

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Speaker 3: what you would imagine for some other generic horror movie score.

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Speaker 3: It would still be, I think, a pretty good movie,

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Speaker 3: but it would not be anything like what it is.

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Speaker 3: And I think the same is true for all of

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Speaker 3: the movies that Carpenter scores himself. It's definitely the case here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So we really don't have to tell most

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Speaker 2: of you who John Carpenter is. You know, he's responsible

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Speaker 2: for such iconic films as Seventy Eights, Halloween, eighty one's

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Speaker 2: Escape from New York, eighty two is The Thing, eighty

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Speaker 2: six is Big Trouble in Little China in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: four is in the Mouth of Madness, just to name

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Speaker 2: a few. He came out of the USC School of

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Speaker 2: Cinematic Arts in the late sixties and ultimately skyrocketed with

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Speaker 2: the success of Halloween. This film, eighty seven's Prince of

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Speaker 2: Darkness is notable for being his first independent film after

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Speaker 2: a string of big student udio commercial movies, coming immediately

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Speaker 2: on the heels of the box office disappointment of Big

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Speaker 2: Trouble in Little China, which of course has gone on

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Speaker 2: to become a much loved cult classic. But at the time,

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Speaker 2: you know, it did not succeed.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people didn't get it when

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Speaker 3: it came out. It was only kind of looking back

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Speaker 3: that people started to realize the genius.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's coming off of that. Carpenter has said

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Speaker 2: in interviews that he was worn out by the big

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Speaker 2: studio process and really wanted to make a lower budget

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Speaker 2: film that was completely on his own terms. And that's

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Speaker 2: what Prince of Darkness is. It's a weird, doomy contemplation

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Speaker 2: on religion and quantum mechanics, which Carpenter, you know, always

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Speaker 2: a science nerd, had been reading about leading up to

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Speaker 2: this production. And it's also a film that may comment

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Speaker 2: to some degree, maybe even almost subconsciously or subliminentally, on

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Speaker 2: on his desire to break free from the tyrannical order

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Speaker 2: of big studio productions. You know, like you can maybe

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Speaker 2: pick cup on a little sort of like post studio

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Speaker 2: angst in the way that he's formulating things.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there is a great part where they're discussing the

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Speaker 3: secrets kept by the Brotherhood of Sleep, and Donald Pleasant

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Speaker 3: starts talking about how, you know, we fed the people

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Speaker 3: what we thought they wanted a lie. It was all

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Speaker 3: a lie. I want to tell them the truth now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So it's it's in a way, this movie's

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Speaker 2: kind of it has a meanness and also kind of

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Speaker 2: a graphicness that you don't see in a lot of

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Speaker 2: other Carpenter films. I mean not to say, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: can look at the thing and it's grotesque, but this

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Speaker 2: movie is also pretty violent and grotesque in its own way.

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Speaker 2: It's often situated with the Thing and in the mouth

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Speaker 2: of Madness as being part of his Apocalypse trilogy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's one of the bloodier ones. It also is clearly

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Speaker 2: a siege film, which he's quick to point out, and

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Speaker 2: it has a Howard Hawksian ensemble cast featuring several actors

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Speaker 2: that Carpenter handpicked to work with, again, you know, mostly

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Speaker 2: like people he liked working with and was excited to

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Speaker 2: have on a production like this. He made a reported

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Speaker 2: fourteen point two million off of a budget of three million,

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Speaker 2: and so he followed it up with They Live, which

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Speaker 2: was nearly identical in terms of creative control, budget and

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Speaker 2: box office. Carpenter's last full length directorial effort was twenty

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Speaker 2: tens The Ward, but he's remained active, of course as

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Speaker 2: a composer, often working with his son Cody.

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Speaker 3: Now did you say in one of the commentaries you

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Speaker 3: were listening to that Carpenter admitted to his obsession with

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Speaker 3: video games? Because I don't remember where I came across this,

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Speaker 3: but I generally had it in my head that Carpenter

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Speaker 3: is like obsessed with playing like I don't know, NBA JAM,

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Speaker 3: like like sports video games for the PlayStation and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean numerous interviews will bring up video games,

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Speaker 2: and even in this commentary track, which was I think

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Speaker 2: you know, over a decade ago that it was recorded,

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Speaker 2: you know, he's mostly like, yeah, I'm not as tuned

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Speaker 2: into the you know what people, you know, what's going

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Speaker 2: on with horror movies. These stays and most just to

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Speaker 2: sports and video games. And I've seen other interviews where

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Speaker 2: people ask him what's what he's playing, and there's always

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Speaker 2: some sort of like shooter or sports game. I guess

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Speaker 2: that he's into, so, you know, you know, more power

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Speaker 2: to him. He's a big gamer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fair enough, John. You know, you made a bunch

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Speaker 3: of good ones. You don't have to keep up with

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Speaker 3: what's what's great this here? Yeah, play video games.

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Speaker 2: I should also point out Carpenter points to several influences

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Speaker 2: on the plot of this picture, one of them being

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Speaker 2: Gregory Benford's novel Timescape from nineteen eighty that's a I

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Speaker 2: haven't read it, but apparently it's a novel that involves

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Speaker 2: messages from the future sent via hypothetical faster than lie

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Speaker 2: Tachyon particles.

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Speaker 3: Oh this ties into one of my favorite things in

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Speaker 3: the movie, The Dreams sent from the future. I guess

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Speaker 3: we'll get into that in the plot section. But I

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Speaker 3: love that convention here and the way it's realized as

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Speaker 3: a kind of staticky like you know, third generation VHS

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Speaker 3: copy video message is so good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, again, this is a fairly expansive ensemble cast,

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Speaker 2: and we can't cover everyone here or do go into

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Speaker 2: great detail, so I'm probably gonna have to be a

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Speaker 2: little briefer than usual. All right. First of all, top billing,

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Speaker 2: we have Donald Pleasants playing an unnamed priest. He's just

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Speaker 2: credited as priest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was trying to so some sources I found

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Speaker 3: online called him. I think father Loomis. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that name is ever said in the movie, and I

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Speaker 3: don't see that in anything official. That might just be

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Speaker 3: something the Internet made of.

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Speaker 2: He is very Loomis esque, Like, it's impossible not to

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Speaker 2: compare this role as a troubled priest fighting against evil

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Speaker 2: to the other major role in which he played a

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Speaker 2: troubled priest fighting against evil as Loomis and Halloween. It's

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Speaker 2: also similar to the character he played in The Devil's

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Speaker 2: Men that we previously discussed on the show.

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Speaker 3: Oh No, The Devil's Men he's much better in this

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Speaker 3: than he was in The Devil's Men. Yeah, but it

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Speaker 3: is very similar to his Halloween performance. In both cases,

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Speaker 3: he is playing a He is playing a haunted, disturbed

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Speaker 3: cleric of sorts who is motivated by a fear of

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Speaker 3: what's to come and guilt for what he in some

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Speaker 3: small part, played a role in releasing into the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Pleasants lived nineteen nineteen through nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 2: and he, of course not only appeared in Carpenter's Halloween.

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Speaker 2: He was also an Escape from New York, in which

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Speaker 2: he played the President of the United States.

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Speaker 3: May God have messy on you all.

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Speaker 2: He often played these really like, very dry, serious characters,

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Speaker 2: but it's said to be quite humorous behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: and you know, everybody seems to have really nice things

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Speaker 2: to say about working with him. All Right. Up next,

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Speaker 2: we have the actor and character that are essentially positioned

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Speaker 2: as the leading man. But again very strong ensemble sensibilities here.

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Speaker 2: But this is the character Brian Marsh played by Jamison

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Speaker 2: Parker born nineteen forty seven.

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Speaker 3: Is this supposed to be our Tom Atkins for the film?

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Speaker 2: I think so, our mustachioed, handsome eighties leading man. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: he just hangs out like he's working alone in his

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Speaker 2: apartment or house at night. He's just he's got his

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Speaker 2: shirt open so he can show off his muscles to nobody. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's got some muscles, though he does. He's a man's

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Speaker 2: in good shape. Jamison Parker was mostly known for playing

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Speaker 2: the Simon without a mustache on TV Simon and Simon,

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Speaker 2: So in this movie he's the one with the mustache.

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Speaker 2: And he worked several times with Simon and Simon co

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Speaker 2: star Gerald McRaney the dad from a Never Ending Story.

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Speaker 2: So I mean this is mostly what he's known for, also,

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Speaker 2: of course remembered for this picture. And you know, he's

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Speaker 2: perfectly fine in this no complaints. Again. He's essentially the

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Speaker 2: leading man that exists mostly within an ensemble cast of characters.

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Speaker 3: You know, I will say I love Love Prince of Darkness,

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Speaker 3: but I will say I think deeply developed characters is

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Speaker 3: not this movie's strong suit. Instead of having characters that

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Speaker 3: we get to know super well and are very well defined.

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Speaker 3: And we have a lot of characters, I would say

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Speaker 3: the most interesting singularly defined character in the movie is

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Speaker 3: the physics professor Barak played by Victor Wong.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Victor Wong, who of nineteen twenty seven through two

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Speaker 2: thousand and one Chinese American character actor, easily best remembered

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Speaker 2: for his role as the wizard egg Shin in Carpenter's

383
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Speaker 2: Big Trouble in Little China, but he also had a

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Speaker 2: great role in the cult classic monster film Trimmers, which

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Speaker 2: also had a great ensemble cast, and he was also

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven's The Last Emperor. Other credits include

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Speaker 2: eighty five's Year of the Dragon, eighty six is Shanghai

388
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Speaker 2: Surprise that as some Madonna movie memory serves, and also

389
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Speaker 2: The Golden Child with Eddie Murphy nineteen ninety three, is

390
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Speaker 2: the Joy Luck Club in nineteen ninety seven, seven Years

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Speaker 2: in Tibet.

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Speaker 3: I always love Victor Wong. Of course, I love him

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Speaker 3: in Big Trouble in Little China, and I love him

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Speaker 3: in this. He has such a strong, like good magic,

395
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Speaker 3: comforting aura. He's almost like the which Glinda when he appears,

396
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Speaker 3: you know, Does that make any sense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it's like there's he He's able to bring

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Speaker 2: a certain wisdom to everything that he's saying, you know.

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Speaker 2: And we'll get into when we can do. Examples from

400
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Speaker 2: his various physics lectures. But I think it's interesting because

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Speaker 2: I think that you could say the same for Donald

402
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Speaker 2: Pleasants and Victor Wong. Both of them are really great

403
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Speaker 2: at making you believe the things that they're saying. No

404
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 2: matter what kind of dialogue they're given. You're like, Yeah,

405
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Speaker 2: this guy knows what he's talking.

406
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Speaker 3: About, absolutely. And I really like the way he plays

407
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: this character too, So not just in delivering say, these

408
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Speaker 3: these strange physics lectures about you know, the other characters

409
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Speaker 3: say about like the student characters say about him that

410
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Speaker 3: he is a physics professor, but he's almost more interested

411
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Speaker 3: in turning his students into philosophers than scientists, because he's

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Speaker 3: really captured by the ideas the implications of the quantum

413
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Speaker 3: mechanics that he teaches, and so he does come off

414
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Speaker 3: he does portray that well as like the man apped

415
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Speaker 3: up in not just how the science works, but what

416
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Speaker 3: it means for our lives, and he clearly like he

417
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 3: gets lost in thought about that and wants other people

418
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Speaker 3: to understand to the extent he does, how strange all

419
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Speaker 3: this is and how much it should shake them to

420
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Speaker 3: their core. But I also like the way that he

421
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: plays this role as as physically feeble but mentally tough.

422
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Speaker 3: Like he sort of plays the character. He's very kind

423
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Speaker 3: of slow moving and almost sort of with a limb

424
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Speaker 3: or something and the way he walks, but he he

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Speaker 3: doesn't get as easily mentally shaken as a lot of

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Speaker 3: the other characters.

427
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, again, it's you know, it's probably that strong

428
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Speaker 2: wisdom rating for his character. All right, let's see. Next,

429
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Speaker 2: we have the character Catherine Danforth played by Lisa Blount,

430
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Speaker 2: who lived nineteen fifty seven through twenty ten. Along with

431
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Speaker 2: most of the characters, she's part of the Professor's assembled

432
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Speaker 2: science team, and as we'll see, she's also the love

433
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Speaker 2: interest of the character Brian Marsh best known for her

434
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 2: Golden Globe nominated performance in nineteen eighty two as an

435
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 2: officer and a gentleman. Her other credits include nineteen eighty

436
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: one's Dead and Buried, nineteen eighty four's Radioactive Dreams and

437
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: What Waits Below, eighty seven's Night Flyers, and nineteen eighty

438
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: nine Blind Fury. She also produced three projects, including the

439
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: Academy Award winning short film The Accountant in two thousand

440
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 2: and one that starred and was directed by her husband

441
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: Ray McKinnon. And co starred Walton Goggins, both both fine actors.

442
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 3: Oh Goggins connection. As I said earlier, a lot of

443
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 3: the student characters, maybe including our supposed leading man Brian,

444
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 3: are not super well defined. I think Catherine is one

445
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 3: of the slightly more interesting ones. She has there's something

446
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 3: unspoken about her backstory, Like there are moments she has

447
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: with Brian where they're talking about, like why she seems

448
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 3: to have a kind of pessimistic outlook about say love,

449
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 3: or or about the future. Why she seems to have

450
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 3: a lot of doubts about herself, and she often doesn't

451
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: want to explain what the cause of that is, and

452
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 3: so we're just sort of left to fill that in ourselves.

453
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: But yeah, she's presented as this character who has I

454
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: don't know, who has a kind of darkness, who has doubts,

455
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: but she does essentially save the day in the end,

456
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 3: The bridging into the dark world where the Father of

457
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 3: Satan resides more on that later is ultimately that is

458
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 3: stopped by an act of heroism by Catherine.

459
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right. Next we have the character Walter

460
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 2: played by Dennis Dunn born nineteen fifty two. This is

461
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 2: another big trouble in Little China Alumni. He also appeared

462
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five's The Year of the Dragon and

463
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 2: eighty seven's The Last Emperor American actor of Chinese descent

464
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 2: with the credits and TV film and stage. His role

465
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 2: is interesting because he is the funniest character, but he

466
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 2: is also it's important distress, not a comic relief character,

467
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 2: Like he is not there just to make a few

468
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: jokes and then get killed by a monster or anything

469
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: like that. Like, he has a lot of personality and

470
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: he brings a lot of legitimate humor to the role.

471
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 2: But he's also a character that you're pretty invested in,

472
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: so I don't know, he feels almost like co male

473
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: lead in the film.

474
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say it's not that he functions as

475
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 3: comic relief within the plot. I would say that the character,

476
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: the main characteristic of his character is that he is

477
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 3: a jokester, and he in fact deals with fear by

478
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,479
Speaker 3: making jokes, which is a thing a lot of people do.

479
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: You know, that's a common character. You know, you can

480
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: recognize that character trait in others. The people whose impulse

481
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 3: when things start getting tense or scary is to start

482
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 3: trying harder and harder to be funny.

483
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Next we have Kelly. Kelly is played

484
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: by Susan Blanchard born nineteen forty four. She's another member

485
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: of the science team. I don't remember what her discipline

486
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: is off the top of my hand.

487
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 3: She has a bit the physics group, but physics.

488
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: She's physics, the blonde member of the team. She becomes

489
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 2: really important in the final act, So more on that

490
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: in a bet. She also appeared and they Live and

491
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: was on tpe's policewoman. All right. Then we have the

492
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: character Susan Cabot played by Anne Marie Howard born nineteen sixty.

493
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: This is the science team member with the piercing eyes.

494
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: Do you remember what her discipline is.

495
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: I don't remember her discipline. But she's the one who's

496
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: working down in the basement with the cylinder of goo.

497
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: She has the glasses. Multiple characters refer to her by

498
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 3: saying glasses.

499
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then of course she becomes the first person

500
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 2: to be possessed, so minor spoiler there, but hey, and

501
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: she loses the glasses and becomes the creepy possessed woman

502
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: for the rest of the film, which she does a

503
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: great job at.

504
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: She goes around essentially a urinating satanic fluid out of

505
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: her mouth into other people's mouths.

506
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: Exactly, which is great. I mean, how many other films

507
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: do you have this sort of like possessed zombie vampire

508
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: that uses like a project green liquid to infect others?

509
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: That is pretty great. This is essentially her first film role,

510
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 2: which she followed up with a stint on Days of

511
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: Our Lives and has had a long career acting in

512
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 2: mostly television. I think some solid stage credits as well.

513
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: All right, up next, we have the character Lisa played

514
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: by Ann yin one of only a handful of credits

515
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: for her that include According to IMDb, anyway, there's always

516
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: possibility something's crossed here, but they have listed a nineteen

517
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: eighty Chinese film called What Is Love? And then she

518
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: does a few other things. She does this movie, and

519
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: then finally has an episode of TVs in living color,

520
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: and then I don't know what happened to her after that,

521
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: but I thought she was pretty good. Here. She's like

522
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: a computer person, right.

523
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 3: No, no, no, she's well, she's using a computer. But no,

524
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: she's brought in as a theology student because they need

525
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: someone to translate the ancient languages in the book that

526
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: is kept by the Brotherhood of Sleep.

527
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: That's right, So she's doing a lot of translation work

528
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: on the computer.

529
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 3: Yes, she's like just looking at the book and apparently

530
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: not needing to use any reference resources or anything. She

531
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: just like looks at the Brotherhood of Sleep book and like, okay,

532
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: that's Coptic, and then just starts typing in English on

533
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: the computer, doing it straight from the head. I mean,

534
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: that's impressive. I think even most professional, you know, language

535
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: scholars probably need to use some reference materials when they're

536
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 3: translating things. But yeah, so she's the one who's like

537
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 3: translating the book, so she gives us a lot of

538
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 3: like creepy statements that are coming from this ancient tone.

539
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 3: But then also she has one of my favorite scary

540
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: moments in the movie where after she gets possessed by

541
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: the Satanic fluid, she's sitting at the computer and just

542
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: like staring ahead, not looking at the screen, but like

543
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 3: looking off to the side and just typing repeatedly over

544
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: and over, and then you see the screen and it

545
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: just says, I live, I live like a million times.

546
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: Peter Jason, in the commentary tract did comment that Hey,

547
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: she's like acting and using a computer and it looks believable.

548
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: I can't do that. He's like making a case like

549
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: most actors can't do that. We don't know how to

550
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: use computers. That's why we're acting. So I found that amusing.

551
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna skip various members of the science team here,

552
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: but yeah, I'll mention that. Yeah. Peter Jason born nineteen

553
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 2: forty four appears here in the first of seven collaborations

554
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: with John Carpenter. Alice Cooper the rock Star born nineteen

555
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: forty eight has a small role as a possessed man who,

556
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: as we'll discuss, also essentially brought his own special effects

557
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: with him for one scene, and then visual effects supervisor

558
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: Robert Grassmere is also in it as an actor. He

559
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: has a memorable role in the film because he gets

560
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: to die not once, but twice. This was only Grassmere's

561
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: third movie as a visual effects supervisor, but he went

562
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: on to serve on such films as eighty seven's The

563
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: Running Man, nineteen nineties Predator, two, ninety three's Demolition Man,

564
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: and twenty twenty one's Barb and Star Go to to

565
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: del mar So. In a lot of different films.

566
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: Oh, but if we're talking about the scientists, we got

567
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 3: to talk about one of my favorites, which is Calder

568
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: the microbiologist.

569
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: I think, yes, he's tremendous. Jesse Lawrence Ferguson who lived

570
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one through twenty nineteen. He's kind of forgetable

571
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: early on, he's just you know, he's just one of

572
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: the scienced crew. But he goes on to seemingly just

573
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 2: have a blast playing a possessed version of his character,

574
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: engaging in all manner of like strange facial expressions, and

575
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: I think he's the only one that laughs. And he

576
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: has this just completely unhinged laugh that he does that

577
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: really adds to the creepiness during the final part of the.

578
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: Pictures, it's so good. Hats off to him. It's like

579
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 3: I am the devil now and it's hilarious and it's on.

580
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: But it's a laugh that he's not just laughing maniacally

581
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 3: like outright laughter. It's like he is trying to keep

582
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: from laughing, but he can't stop himself. And that's what

583
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: makes it so good. Demonic laughter like bubbling out of him.

584
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: It's so good. Yeah. Now, he was an actor of

585
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: stage and screen, who appeared in a fair number of things,

586
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: including nineteen eighty four's Buckarou Bonzi eighty six is Neon Maniacs.

587
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: I do not remember him from Neo MANIAX, but I

588
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: have seen that film, nineteen nineties dark Man and nineteen

589
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: ninety one's Boys in the Hood. Great voice, great voice, talent,

590
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: let's see of note. Gary B. Kibbe is cinematographer on

591
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: this who of nineteen forty one through twenty twenty. He

592
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: previously worked as a camera operator on some films, and

593
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: this was his first film as director of photography. Followed

594
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: by They Live, he went onto work on several different

595
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: John Carpenter films and then finally, Yes, the score. We

596
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: already credited Carpenter, and again this is one of several

597
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: collaborations with musician Alan Howarth. You can find the score

598
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: wherever you get your music streaming or otherwise. But if

599
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: you want something physical, Sacred Bones Records, who have worked

600
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: extensive with John Carpenter, have a really beautiful box set

601
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: that includes a blu ray of the film. Real quick,

602
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: now that I'm looking at the picture of the blu ray,

603
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: I'm again reminded of the box art for this film.

604
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: The poster art for this film with like the screaming

605
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: face and the green lightning stemming from some sort of

606
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: a church. Long before I ever actually watched this picture,

607
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: I do distinctly remember seeing that VHS box art on

608
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: the shelf at VHS rentals stores, and it always kind

609
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: of like scared me and captivated me from a very

610
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: young age. So solid, solid poster.

611
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 3: Whose face is this? Is this anybody from the movie,

612
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: Not that I recall, I.

613
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: Don't know for certain. It may yeah, it may just

614
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: be nobody. It's just an evocative poster, which is, you know,

615
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: sometimes the case.

616
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: Can I say something about the marketing for the movie.

617
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: I am impressed that they managed to resist just putting

618
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 3: Alice Cooper on the cover.

619
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: Yes. I also think it is very admirable that despite

620
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: the fact that Alice Cooper has a song title Prints

621
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: of Darkness that is like technically on the soundtrack, and

622
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: yet is not the closing credits song, or at least

623
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: I don't it's not the initial closing credit song. Maybe

624
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 2: they play it later on after I stop watching the credits.

625
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: But this is a film that has tremendous music obviously,

626
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: and a tremendous endpoint like the final shot in the

627
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: film is perfect, and the music matches with it perfectly

628
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 2: and feeds into the end credit song that is Carpenter

629
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 2: and Howarth. I wouldn't change that for the world. I'm

630
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 2: so glad we don't switch over into a rock number

631
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: at that point.

632
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. I mean, as I said earlier, the

633
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 3: use of music in this movie is perfect, and it

634
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 3: is what makes the film work as well as it does.

635
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 3: Not that there aren't a lot of other great things

636
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 3: about the movie, but the music is the glue that

637
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 3: holds everything together and does the most work of anything

638
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 3: to establish the intended feeling of the movie. So yeah,

639
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: you couldn't mess with that, I think. Yeah, I totally agree.

640
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: If as soon as you cut to the credits you

641
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: went to a rock song, I think that would be

642
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: a real bummer. That would really spoil it.

643
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: All. Right, Well, let's dive into the plot proper here.

644
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: So the action opens with that ominous theme music. It

645
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: consists of a deep electronic pulse that bounces kind of

646
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 3: like a hammer on a harpsichord string. But then it

647
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: also has these high synthesizer tones that sound kind of

648
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: like choirs, but not so much singing but sighing. I

649
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 3: love that sighing voice they've created there. I don't know

650
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: exactly what that is, but this music keeps playing as

651
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: we go through the opening shots of the movie, and

652
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: the first I would say the first ten minutes or

653
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 3: so of the movie function kind of like a montage

654
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: where we don't follow any individual character or character all

655
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 3: that long. Instead, it's more like a montage where we

656
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 3: cut back and forth between credits and then different characters, settings,

657
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: and important props. So it's kind of like a survey

658
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 3: of the game pieces being laid out on the board,

659
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: except it is charged with this incredibly strong combination of dread, anticipation,

660
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 3: and unstoppable forward momentum, all created by the music. And

661
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: I think, somewhat famously, this opening credits montage goes on

662
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: for like nine or ten minutes.

663
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's a good one though. It really brings

664
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: the intrigue following these characters around, establishing who they are

665
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 2: and what's happening in this world.

666
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: So the first thing we see is the full moon

667
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 3: in a black sky with reflected moonlight almost a shade

668
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 3: of pink.

669
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of many great Matte paintings in

670
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: the film by Jan Dan Janfirth. Here, anytime you see

671
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: characters looking up at the sky and there's something weird

672
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 2: going on with the sky, it's a great mapping.

673
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 3: And by the way, I'm going to describe this opening

674
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 3: montage in a good bit of detail to kind of

675
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: help create the feeling. But then, so after we see

676
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 3: the moon, we see inside a room and the moonlight

677
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 3: falls through a circular window that's criss crossed with bars.

678
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 3: Underneath the window, an old an old man lies alone

679
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 3: in a small bed. Across from him, there's a heavy

680
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 3: black wooden door on the far wall, a crucifix, a candlestick,

681
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: and a framed image of a saint, So we think

682
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: this guy's probably a priest. Then we close on his face.

683
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 3: He seems to be struggling. He's drawing his last breath,

684
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 3: and then his hand falls away from something that he

685
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: has been clutching. It is a tiny silver box. Then

686
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: we get the title John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness. Next,

687
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 3: we open on daylight on a university campus and there

688
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: are students gathered under shady green trees. They're walking along

689
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: paved pathways between the buildings and well in with one

690
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 3: of our main characters. This is Brian Marsh played by

691
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: Jamison Parker. He's fit, blonde with a mustache, wearing a

692
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: neatly tucked red polo shirt, carrying a leather satchel, and

693
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 3: he walks to the foreground of the shot and pauses

694
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: while the music kind of pulls you along, and this

695
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 3: is the camera getting to know him. Across the courtyard

696
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 3: he sees another major character, Catherine Danforth played by Lisa Blount,

697
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 3: talking to another woman before class. Catherine is red haired,

698
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: dressed casually in a denim jacket, holding a stack of

699
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 3: books and binders in the crook of her arm. She

700
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 3: looks she's like a good natured nerd. Then back to

701
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: the room of the priest in the morning, a nun

702
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 3: knocks on the door, comes inside and finds him dead

703
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 3: with the silver box resting on his midsection. Later we

704
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: see the nun talking to donald pleasants, also a priest

705
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: dressed as a priest. Don't know if that needs to

706
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 3: be said, but yeah, we established he's a priest. She's

707
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: talking to him about the fact that she found this

708
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 3: other priest on His name was Father Carlton, and he

709
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 3: was taken to the hospital but he never woke up again.

710
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: Donald Pleasant asks why Father Carlton was here in the

711
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 3: first place. Where are they? Well, they appear to be

712
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: in some kind of headquarters of the Catholic hierarchy, because

713
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: the nun says he had an appointment with his Imminence

714
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: this afternoon. Oh, his Eminence, so important business going on

715
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 3: within the church. Donald Pleasance sits down and begins investigating

716
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: what happened here by reading doctor Carlton's handwritten journals, and

717
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 3: the header on this handwritten journal entry is the Brotherhood

718
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 3: of Sleep. Now it cuts away before you can read

719
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: everything on the page. I actually did stop to see

720
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: what it actually says and take down everything. It's actually

721
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 3: not as interesting as they didn't intend for you to

722
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 3: read this whole part. It starts with, like I can

723
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 3: no longer keep silent as to this dreadful secret. We'll

724
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 3: get more intriguing Brotherhood of Sleep stuff as we go along.

725
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 3: It does eventually zoom in on one particular part that

726
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 3: says says the sleeper awakens, I have witnessed his stirrings,

727
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 3: felt the cold, hellish blast. Now next we're going to

728
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 3: meet the character of the physics Professor Howard Barrack played

729
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 3: by Victor Wong. He is walking class with a heavy briefcase,

730
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 3: dressed in a wool blazer with at least five pins

731
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: in his shirt pocket, so he is a professor, but

732
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 3: he's also dressed very classically professorially, and he comes off

733
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: as preoccupied with his obscure curiosities in research questions. And

734
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: as he heads to class, something gets his attention in

735
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 3: the sky, so he puts things down and he crosses

736
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 3: his fingers over his eyes to block the light, and

737
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: then looks up toward the sun. We see the sun

738
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: shining through the clouds, and then right next to the

739
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: sun in the middle of the day is a crescent moon,

740
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: and then the camera shows us He doesn't see this,

741
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 3: but the camera shows us nearby on the ground red

742
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 3: ants swarming ferociously over a mound in the grass. And

743
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 3: this will establish a theme that happens a lot in

744
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 3: the movie, where characters stop and they kind of look

745
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 3: up in the sky or look toward the sun as

746
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: if they feel like something is wrong. And then we

747
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 3: see the sun and it's just sort of hidden by

748
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 3: the clouds sometimes or partially hidden. He is like shining

749
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 3: through some thin clouds. And music lets It's like the

750
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: music lets us know that there is something wrong with

751
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 3: the sky, something wrong with the sun, but nobody's ever

752
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 3: able to say what it is. People don't really talk

753
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: about it. It's just this feeling of unease about the atmosphere.

754
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 3: And I love this.

755
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, a quick note on the bugs. There are

756
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: a lot of bugs in this picture. And there's just

757
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: one really brief moment in the audio commentary where Peter

758
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: Jason asks Carpenter says, like a lot of bugs here,

759
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: where'd they come from? And Carpenter's like, oh, you know,

760
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: we had a bug wrangler. And Jason says that sounds expensive,

761
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: and Carpenter says, it's not that bad. I don't know why.

762
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: I love that exchange so much.

763
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 3: Compared to getting Alice Cooper.

764
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: Come on Alice Cooper, by the way, that it was

765
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: kind of funny he was cast in the film because

766
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 2: his agent was one of the producers of the picture.

767
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: So like that was kind of like the meet up,

768
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: like how they kind of like I think they also

769
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: met at WrestleMania or something, WrestleMania three, I want to say,

770
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 2: And so he was like, I'd love to be in

771
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: a horror movie and big horror movie fan, and they're like,

772
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 2: you know, it came together. And then also, as we'll discuss,

773
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: Alice Cooper had a particular impalement gag that he would

774
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: do on stage and they were like, oh, that's great,

775
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: let's do a version of that in this picture.

776
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 3: And they do, Oh, is this where he stabs the

777
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: stabs the nerdy guy with a bicycle.

778
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I think the stage version is a microphone

779
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: stand and they adapted it for to be a bicycle

780
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 2: in this Yeah, it's pretty great. Though more on that

781
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: when it occurs.

782
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: I can't promise more on that because I don't know

783
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 3: what else to say. He just gets stabbed with the bicycle.

784
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I'll go ahead and say. What happens is

785
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: Alice Cooper's character, who zombified, stabs a guy through with

786
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: the bicycle. He's got half a bicycle with like a

787
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: you know, like a part of the frame sticking out

788
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: that you can pail somebody with, and then that leaves

789
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 2: the guy to like slump over, impaled over like the

790
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: bicycle wheel and so forth. However, nobody then you kind

791
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: of expect a zombie to then come behind the victim

792
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: pick up his legs wheelbarrel style and then turn him

793
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: into a wheelbarrow and wheelbarrow him off. That does not happen.

794
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: It's still a great scene though, all.

795
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 3: Right, So the montage continues. Oh, we get one I

796
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: thought quite funny shot of Donald Pleasant standing in the

797
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: courtyard of this you know, church office building, dramatically opening

798
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 3: the silver box and pulling out a comically oversized key.

799
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 3: And then we get one of these classroom scenes with dialogue.

800
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: So some of these scenes are silent, some have talking

801
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: in them. In this one, we hear Professor Barak delivering

802
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 3: a lecture on quantum physics to a classroom of graduate students,

803
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 3: including Brian and Catherine, the characters we saw earlier, and

804
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: a bunch of the other characters that we'll see get

805
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 3: possessed by the devil or killed later. And I'm just

806
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 3: going to read the quote what Professor Barack says. He says,

807
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 3: let's talk about our beliefs and what we can learn

808
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 3: about them. We believe nature is solid and time, a constant.

809
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 3: Matter has substance and time a direction. There is truth

810
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 3: in flesh and the solid ground. The wind may be invisible,

811
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 3: but it's real. Smoke, fire, water, light. They're different, not

812
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 3: as to stone or steel, but they're tangible. And we

813
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 3: assume time has an arrow because it is as a clock.

814
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 3: One second is one second for everyone. Cause precedes effect,

815
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 3: fruit rots, water flows downstream, where born, we age, we die.

816
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 3: The reverse never happens. None of this is true. Say

817
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 3: goodbye to classical reality because our logic collapses at the

818
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: subatomic level into ghosts and shadows.

819
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: That's pretty great, especially the way it's punctuated there, and

820
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: it ties into one of the basic themes of the

821
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: film that everything you thought you knew about science, religion,

822
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: and the universe is wrong. So you know, some strong

823
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: cosmic horror elements there, like the safety net that you

824
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 2: thought was there is not there at all, and the

825
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: yawning cosmos is more terrifying than previously assumed.

826
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 3: Yes, it's cosmic in that sense in that the threatening,

827
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 3: the threatening malevolence in this movie is not just like

828
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 3: a single embodied entity that's coming in to attack us,

829
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 3: but it is threaded through the very physics and fabric

830
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 3: of the universe. There's like something in the laws of

831
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 3: physics in all of the atoms and particles and bits

832
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 3: of energy in the universe that contains bits of this

833
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 3: malevolence and evil. It's just waiting for us in the

834
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 3: universe itself.

835
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

836
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 3: Now after this, we get our first establishing shot of

837
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 3: the church where most of the movie will take place.

838
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: This is a church called at Goddard's in the film.

839
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: It's a stately old brick chapel topped with an ornamental cross,

840
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 3: with columns on the front and a fire escape leading

841
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 3: down the side. It's situated on a kind of run

842
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 3: down looking city block. Actually, when you get some other angles,

843
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 3: you see more activity going on, sort of across the

844
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 3: street or further down the street. But I think just

845
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 3: by showing a tighter shot they create the feeling that

846
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: maybe not much is going on here. We see a

847
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: building with some shuttered windows. There's trash piled up on

848
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 3: the sidewalk, So I think the idea is that this

849
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: is a sort of it's on a disused city block,

850
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 3: maybe nobody goes to this church anymore. And the church

851
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 3: is surrounded by a white iron fence with an extremely

852
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 3: creepy bronze statue of a cloaked figure out front. Is

853
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 3: that supposed to be the Virgin Mary? I can't quite tell.

854
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: This is a real church in LA by the way,

855
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: at the time it was the abandoned former Japanese Union

856
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: Church of Los Angeles, and today it's the Union Center

857
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: for the Arts. You can visit it in LA's little

858
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: Tokyo district. And I was reading a little bit about it,

859
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 2: like it also has an important role in Japanese American history.

860
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: I believe this is a place during Japanese Internment that

861
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: a lot of people's affected people's possessions were stored. And

862
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: of course, you know, the people affected by this often

863
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: lost a great deal of what they previously owned, you know,

864
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: real estate or otherwise. But yeah, it's currently the Union

865
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 2: Center for the Arts, and you can visit it, get

866
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: your picture taken in front of it, just you know,

867
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: be respectful, obviously, don't spit any green stuff out of

868
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: your mouth at it, and so forth.

869
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 3: So we zoom in here in front of the church

870
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 3: and see Donald Pleasant standing out front on the sidewalk,

871
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 3: and he looks filled with worry and doubt. He goes inside,

872
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 3: walks down a long hall and finds that the silver

873
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 3: key from the box he opened it unlocks a heavy

874
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 3: iron door marked with a sign of the Cross. He

875
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 3: pushed open the door and goes inside. Later we see

876
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 3: him typing out a letter to Professor Barak, saying he

877
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 3: has discovered a most unusual phenomenon that should be of

878
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 3: interest to him, and it's urgent that they meet it once.

879
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 3: And then we pop in on another one of Barak's lectures.

880
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 3: This time he's saying from Job's friends insisting that the

881
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 3: good are rewarded and the wicked punished, to the scientists

882
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 3: of the nineteen thirties, proving to their horror, the theorem

883
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 3: that not everything can be proved. We've sought to impose

884
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: order on the universe, but we've discovered something very surprising.

885
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 3: While order does exist in the universe, it is not

886
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 3: at all what we had in mind. And then after

887
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 3: class we see a conversation between Brian and another student,

888
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 3: This is Walter played by Dennis Dunn. They see a

889
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 3: nun delivering Donald Pleasantce's letter to their professor and they're like, oh,

890
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 3: a nun. That's interesting, and then they remember it.

891
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 2: Well.

892
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: Apparently Professor Barack participated in a series of televised debates

893
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 3: on the BBC. I think with Donald Pleasance. I wonder

894
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: what they were debating.

895
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know evolution, free will. I'm guessing

896
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: it's something a little headier like free will. That's gonna

897
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 2: be my inclination here.

898
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 3: But apparently they were good natured debates because they have

899
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 3: something of a friendship now, and you know that Donald

900
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 3: Pleasance can call upon Barack for help. So they meet

901
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 3: up in this ornately decorated room and Donald Pleasance gives

902
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 3: the diary to him to read, imploring him for help.

903
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 3: Now we get one of these scenes where, just like

904
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 3: the ominous tension is mounting because we see Brian alone

905
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 3: in his apartment playing solitaire and watching a TV news

906
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 3: report about a recently detected super nova five hundred million

907
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 3: light years away, the light from which is just now

908
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 3: reaching us. And then also on Brian can't see this,

909
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 3: but we see that red ants are massing inside the

910
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 3: back panel of his television set. This is funny because

911
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 3: we've done episodes in the past about ants getting inside

912
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 3: of electronics devices. Did we talk about Prince of Darkness.

913
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: In that I don't think we did. I'd kind of

914
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 2: forgotten about this element of the picture. Ants going into

915
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 2: the television set. Yeah, but it is. It is not

916
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 2: just something you've seen in horror movies. I forget the details.

917
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 2: I think the Crazy Ant was one of the main

918
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 2: ones that has been recognized as a TV crawler. But

919
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: in general, you want you want your insects to stay

920
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: out of your television sets.

921
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 3: Raspberry Crazy Ants was that it sounds delicious. Yeah, okay,

922
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 3: but what's this all working up to? Our cleric and

923
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 3: our wizard. Donald Pleasance and Victor Wong have to visit

924
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 3: the dungeon together. So they arrived by limousine and they

925
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 3: head into Saint Godard's I like this idea that like

926
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 3: professors and priests travel by limousine, do they? But they

927
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: arrive at the church and they go in. Of course,

928
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: we learned that the priests who died earlier, he was

929
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: the guardian of this church. This is where he lived,

930
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 3: and he was tasked with keeping watch over something in

931
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 3: the basement below. Pleasance unlocks the heavy iron door and

932
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 3: leads the professor down into the underground chambers, which we

933
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: learn were built in the fifteen hundreds by the Spanish.

934
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 3: And as they move along, we get some exposition on

935
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 3: the Brotherhood of Sleep. They have existed for going back

936
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: a couple thousand years in secret, not even known to

937
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 3: the Vatican, though through hidden mechanisms they wielded enormous power

938
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 3: within the church. And finally the two men arrive at

939
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 3: their destination, a subterranean stone cathedral lit by hundreds of candles,

940
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 3: and at the far end the goo oh boy. This

941
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 3: is what it's all about.

942
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is a great set piece, you know,

943
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: and it is just about like all the feelings that

944
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: it invokes, because you have like tons of crucifixes on

945
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: the wall, so it's like holiness, established religion, Catholicism. You

946
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: have all the candles as well as part of this

947
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: like sacred scene that you're greeted with. But then in

948
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: the center this unholy cylinder, a swirling with green liquid

949
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: slime or energy that's dripping in corrosion. And next to

950
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: it you have computer equipment with that wonderful like black

951
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: and green screen that you know, sinks nicely with the

952
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 2: green glow of the cylinder, And so you have all

953
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 2: the key elements of the picture kind of merged together,

954
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 2: you know, science, religion, unholy terror from beyond realms that

955
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 2: can be touched by our sanity and so forth.

956
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, the green screen matching the green of the US

957
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: almost implies that the essence of the devil is already

958
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 3: in what makes the computer work.

959
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: You know, it's probably too late for this year, but

960
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 2: if you need a head start on next year's Halloween costume,

961
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: somebody please dresses the cylinder of green liquid from Prince

962
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 2: of Darkness. You can just be straight up the cylinder

963
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: from Prince of Darkness, or you could be the sexy

964
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: cylinder from Prince of Darkness. You could be this is

965
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: a great toddler outfit as well, So please somebody make

966
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 2: this happen and send his photographs.

967
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 3: All my favorite Halloween costume ideas are things that nobody

968
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 3: would get.

969
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one would prey one of those where I

970
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 2: would get really excited about it and then nobody would

971
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 2: guess it. Like maybe it would be like are you

972
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 2: the ooze from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? And I'd be

973
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: just like, yah, fine, that's what I h.

974
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 3: There's a line about this later in the movie that

975
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 3: Victor Wong says that made me laugh, where he's talking

976
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 3: about the devil and he's like, there could be a

977
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: limit as to what he can do as a volume

978
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: of liquid.

979
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 2: That's true. He's got to get out of there Yeah.

980
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,479
Speaker 3: You know. Another bit of imagery here that I would

981
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 3: like to point to rob is on the walls in

982
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 3: this room with all the candles, there's also this swarm

983
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 3: of crucifer fixes, multiplicity of apotropaic crucifixes, which kind of

984
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 3: reminds me of in the Mouth of Madness.

985
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, in the padded cell that that John Trent

986
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 2: occupies in that picture. Yeah, he's he's put these drawn

987
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 2: crucifixes over everything, and also all over his clothing and

988
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 2: over himself. I'm speaking of Halloween costumes. I did dresses

989
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 2: him for Halloween one year, and virtually nobody got it.

990
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: I got you got it. Yes, a few people got it.

991
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 2: But when I just walk around on the street, people

992
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 2: are like, huh, I guess he likes Jesus. And that

993
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: was No.

994
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 3: We ran into you guys at the Halloween parade and

995
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 3: I got I think that was. Was that the year

996
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 3: that Rachel and I were dressed up as Jack and

997
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 3: Wendy Torrence?

998
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 2: Yes, I believe so. Yeah, some people got the people

999
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: who got it loved it.

1000
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 3: Only some people got that one as well.

1001
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it does. It is a great part of

1002
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: the scene. It's kind of like this idea that this

1003
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 2: is how much just insistent faith has we've had to

1004
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 2: muster to keep this thing in check for so long,

1005
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 2: and it no longer is working. The fail safes are failing,

1006
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 2: and stuff is beginning to corrode and leak out.

1007
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. So right next to this volume of liquid there

1008
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 3: is a huge ancient book on a lectern. So like,

1009
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 3: what is this book? Is it the Diary of the

1010
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 3: Keepers of the Ooze? I think the answer is yes, Yes,

1011
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 3: that is what it is. It's this extremely old tome

1012
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 3: written in many different languages. They say it's full of

1013
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 3: overwriting and emendation, attempts to erase certain parts. And so

1014
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: the professor is asking what is it? And Donald Pleasant says,

1015
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 3: it's a secret that can no longer be kept. Do

1016
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 3: you feel it? It was never here before, it started

1017
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 3: a month ago, a change in the earth and the

1018
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 3: sky his power. Okay, so that's the religion. But we

1019
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 3: got to check back in with the science again. So

1020
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 3: we go back and there's a funny scene between Lisa

1021
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 3: Blount and Dennis Dunn where they are walking across campus

1022
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 3: and they're talking. They're wrestling with the weird implications of

1023
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: the quantum mechanics they're studying. Specifically, they're talking about Shredinger's cat. Now,

1024
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 3: note that this is one of the mini pop invocations

1025
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 3: of quantum physics that just takes the Copenhagen interpretation as

1026
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 3: a given. It is not the only interpretation, so you

1027
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 3: don't have to go with that. But they're talking about, like, wait,

1028
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 3: why am I even studying this? And one of them

1029
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 3: makes the joke says, particle beam weapons research grants being

1030
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 3: a millionaire by the time I'm forty. Ah, yeah, that's

1031
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 3: what it is. And again I was like, is that

1032
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: a normal outlook for physics grad students?

1033
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's how Walter sees it.

1034
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 3: Okay, that's right. I mean he's at least a maybe

1035
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 3: he's joking. He's a jokester. But so they find that

1036
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 3: a group of they go to class to find like

1037
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 3: a posted note that indicates a number of physics grad

1038
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 3: students have been recruited by Professor Barack for a special

1039
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 3: project that's going to take up their weekend. So all

1040
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 3: their weekend plans are canceled now and this leads to

1041
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 3: scenes where Catherine and Brian are getting to know one

1042
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 3: another better as well. So remember Brian is sort of

1043
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,439
Speaker 3: the tom Atkins guy. He's the blonde mustache and they're

1044
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:19,439
Speaker 3: talking about the counterintuitiveness of quantum mechanics and Catherine says,

1045
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 3: I want the clockwork back, and then Brian goes on

1046
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 3: to make a sexist comment about how women as beautiful

1047
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 3: as her don't usually work in physics departments, and she

1048
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 3: reacts bluntly. She's like, that is a stupid and sexist

1049
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 3: thing to say, and then he goes for the classic Oh,

1050
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 3: I was just joking, don't get offended, and then she's

1051
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 3: the one who apologizes to him. I can't believe he

1052
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 3: got away with that one. Also, if it's the joke,

1053
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 3: what's the funny part. It didn't seem like a joke anyway.

1054
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 2: He's not the funny one. Walter's the funny one. Though

1055
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 2: he makes some bad jokes too, but at least there's

1056
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: charm in the delivery.

1057
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. But then he sort of, at least euphemistically apologizes

1058
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 3: by saying something like, you know, this wasn't the way

1059
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 3: I'm in for our conversation to go, And all eventually

1060
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 3: gets smoothed over because it does seem that they like

1061
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: one another, and they end up agreeing to go on

1062
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 3: a date later. But I think there is something kind

1063
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 3: of revealed about Catherine's character here in that, like they

1064
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 3: have this little tense moment, and it seems to me

1065
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 3: she's in the right, like what he said was dumb,

1066
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 3: and then she's the one who ends up apologizing. So

1067
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 3: it seems like it's something about her character here that,

1068
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: at least at the beginning of the story, she's capitulating

1069
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 3: when she doesn't need to.

1070
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is interesting to think about this scene

1071
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: in terms of the ultimate trajectory for both of these characters.

1072
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, we do get a scene of like a briefing

1073
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 3: from Professor Barack in front of the grad students where

1074
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 3: we learn that, okay, you've all been drafted to become

1075
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 3: live in researchers for a special project at this abandoned church.

1076
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 3: They're all going to go to Saints and live there

1077
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 3: at least for the weekend to do research. They will

1078
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 3: receive class credit, and he can't tell them what they're

1079
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 3: going to be researching. So we go on to see

1080
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 3: Professor Barack arriving at the church to begin the project,

1081
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 3: and when he gets there, he looks down the sidewalk

1082
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 3: and he sees a woman standing in the distance as

1083
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 3: if in a trance, looking up at the sun, and

1084
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 3: she has ants crawling on her face, and this will

1085
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 3: become the beginning of a theme where we see a

1086
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 3: lot of visions like this. I'll explain more as we

1087
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 3: go along. But we also get a conversation between Barak

1088
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 3: and the priest played by Donald Pleasance where they're talking

1089
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 3: about what all of this means, and Donald Pleasant says

1090
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 3: that they must translate the book of the Brotherhood of Sleep,

1091
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 3: and Barack must quote prove it scientifically, prove what they

1092
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 3: don't say yet. But as the weekend approaches, we get

1093
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 3: a few storylines further developing. So Brian and Catherine's romance deepens,

1094
00:59:58,160 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 3: they go on a date, they get to know each

1095
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 3: other better, and they appear to be falling in love.

1096
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 3: But at the same time as that sort of positive

1097
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 3: storyline is developing, there's a negative one too. We get

1098
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 3: more ominous signs from the atmosphere. Something about the sunshine

1099
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 3: feels wrong and hostile, And then around Saint Goddard's people

1100
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 3: begin to gather. There is like a conclave of silent

1101
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: entrance to drifters led by a disheveled Alice Cooper, and

1102
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 3: they wander slowly around the streets and the alleys around

1103
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 3: the church, sometimes staring up at the sun, sometimes staring

1104
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 3: down at the ground, maybe looking at insects. And one

1105
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 3: of them at one point approaches Donald Pleasant says he's

1106
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 3: entering the building, and she says, it's so wonderful what

1107
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: you're doing, father, opening the church again. And then Donald

1108
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 3: Pleasance looks down and sees that she is holding like

1109
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 3: a coffee cup full of maggots.

1110
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: The bug wrangler really just did. They had a lot

1111
01:00:54,760 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 2: to do on this picture. Maggots, beetles, earthworms, you name it, hants.

1112
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 3: Yes. So the students and professors arrive and begin their

1113
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: weekend of work. They you know, unload their equipment and

1114
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 3: introduce themselves. So it's not only people from the physics department,

1115
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 3: but also biochemists to microbiologists, theologians, and classicists. To translate

1116
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 3: the book, there are a lot of characters. As we

1117
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 3: said earlier, we can't really spend time talking about all

1118
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 3: of them, but we'll mention a few individuals as we

1119
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 3: go along for certain scenes. One thing that often bugs

1120
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 3: me in storytelling, does happen here doesn't bug me as

1121
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 3: much here as it often does, But it's that situation where, like,

1122
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 3: many specialists are assembled for a project or mission, but

1123
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 3: they are not told what it's about or what they're

1124
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 3: going to be doing until after they get there. So

1125
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 3: like in this situation, it's like, why did they agree

1126
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 3: to do it in the first place. It often feels implausible.

1127
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 3: So we get those kind of scenes where the characters

1128
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 3: arrive here and they're like, what are we going to

1129
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 3: be studying? What are we doing? And they're like, I

1130
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 3: don't know. You know, I'll tell you when I know.

1131
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 3: I could be wrong. But I seem to call a

1132
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 3: particularly egregious example of this in the movie Prometheus, because

1133
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 3: they do this, but they also they don't get the

1134
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 3: briefing until they're like literally light years away from Earth.

1135
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'd cut Promethea some slack personally, because

1136
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 2: the experts in that film were recruited to board a

1137
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: state of the art exploration space vessel funded by the

1138
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 2: world's pre eminent innovator and visionary. In Prince of Darkness,

1139
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: a local physics professor has just invited students to sleep

1140
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 2: in the basement of a condemned church but I mean,

1141
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: all in all, you know, I guess you have to

1142
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 2: sort of think of it again from a storytelling choice standpoint,

1143
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 2: and you know, I venture to guess I don't know

1144
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,919
Speaker 2: for certain on this, but I've ad ventured to guess

1145
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 2: that this is perhaps a storytelling trope with roots and

1146
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 2: military movies where the characters are going to have more

1147
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 2: limited choice about showing up for that secret mission, with

1148
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 2: that last minute debriefing. Carpenter has always been pretty open

1149
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 2: about his use of like classic Western structure his inspiration

1150
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 2: for his film, so I would not be surprised if

1151
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 2: he and other filmmakers are drawing on stuff like that.

1152
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 3: That's a good insight. That makes a lot of sense.

1153
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 3: This works in a military situation because the characters are

1154
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 3: just supposed to follow orders. They don't have to know

1155
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 3: what they're going to do. You know, they're told when

1156
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,959
Speaker 3: they're told. It makes less sense for like movies about

1157
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 3: scientists or something where normally you would like you would

1158
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 3: know what you're going to do before you start doing it.

1159
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.

1160
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 3: So it's just like the same kind of storytelling structure

1161
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 3: is pourted onto different types of characters. And situations.

1162
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then all that aside from just the standpoint

1163
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 2: of giving the audience more about you know, providing some exposition,

1164
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 2: but also some little character moments. A debriefing scene like

1165
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: that can be very useful.

1166
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: You know.

1167
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 2: Obviously it can work well with characters being like, well, now,

1168
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 2: why are we here? Because I'm a doctor and you're

1169
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 2: a lawyer. What do we possibly have in common? One?

1170
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 2: Why are we in this church basement? That sort of thing.

1171
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, totally. I mean it's absolutely clear like why

1172
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 3: it happens from a storytelling and efficiency point of view,

1173
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 3: because it's like you can explain it to the audience

1174
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 3: at the same time that the characters find out. You

1175
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 3: can see them react all at once. You can string

1176
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 3: the mystery or the tension along before that moment of

1177
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 3: the reveal what everybody's doing. Yeah, I mean, it's clear

1178
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 3: why it works from the storyteller's point of view. It's

1179
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 3: just one of those where like that clashes with the plausibility.

1180
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 2: All right, So we got the team is as symboled, right,

1181
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 2: and now they're being told what's.

1182
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 3: Up, right, So we're going to start making some discoveries.

1183
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 3: First of all, there's the character Lisa I mentioned earlier,

1184
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 3: this is the theology student who studies ancient languages. She

1185
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 3: just like looks at the Brotherhood of Sleep book She's like, Okay,

1186
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 3: I'm gonna start typing out the translation. So she's typing

1187
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 3: on the computer, and we keep cutting back to her

1188
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 3: at different times, like seeing the sentences as she types them.

1189
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 3: They're things like, I Jesus have sent mine angel to

1190
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 3: testify unto you this thing which shall be unleashed, and

1191
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 3: the Prince of Darkness was himself sealed that old life

1192
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 3: called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world.

1193
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 3: So kind of biblical type stuff, except it's interesting. This

1194
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 3: text seems to have a quality that none of the

1195
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 3: canonical texts of the Bible have, which is it claims

1196
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 3: to be written by Jesus. You know, in the Bible

1197
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 3: we don't have that. We only hear about Jesus from others.

1198
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 3: That's kind of interesting. So this would be all read text, Yeah,

1199
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 3: I guess. So, so the team all they gather in

1200
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 3: the basement and they're finally shown the cylinder of green goo.

1201
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 3: So it's like swirling around really good in the cylinder.

1202
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 3: They're watching it churn and Donald Pleasant says, I can

1203
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 3: feel it getting stronger. And some of the scientists are

1204
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 3: not amused. They're like, wait a minute, we're here for

1205
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 3: what and they think it's a waste of their time.

1206
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 3: Others are more interested. But as the research begins, we

1207
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 3: get different scenes where like findings emerge. So I'm going

1208
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 3: to list off some of the things they discover. First

1209
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 3: of all, they discovered the ancient book describes a long

1210
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 3: series of differential equations mathematical instruments that had not been

1211
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 3: invented at the time the book was written. So huh,

1212
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 3: how is that possible. They also find that the lid

1213
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 3: on the cylinder is sealed shut with a strange locking

1214
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 3: mechanism so that it can only be opened from the inside,

1215
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 3: and the corrosion on the lid is carbon dated to

1216
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 3: seven million years ago. By the way, just pedantic note.

1217
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 3: Carbon dating is not useful for things that old. You

1218
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 3: would need to use a different radiometric method for that.

1219
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 3: Next thing is inside the cylinder. What is it? What

1220
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 3: is the green goo? Well, they do some tests and

1221
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 3: Brian reports to Barak. He says, quote, a life form

1222
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:50,479
Speaker 3: is growing out of prebiotic fluids. It's not winding down

1223
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 3: into disorder, its self organizing, it's becoming something what This

1224
01:06:57,880 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 3: is one of those where I'm like, Okay, I don't

1225
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 3: know how what did they detect? What tests did they

1226
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 3: do to determine that?

1227
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, it's it's it's it's technobabble. But yeah,

1228
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 2: the important thing is we know there's something growing inside

1229
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 2: this cylinder that can only be opened from the inside.

1230
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 3: But if they can't, they can't get inside the cylinder.

1231
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 3: How did they test it? Hm, well, okay, there are

1232
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 3: not complaining. I'm just saying like there are.

1233
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:24,919
Speaker 2: Some containment issues going on, as we'll see.

1234
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 3: I think this is a great example of what I

1235
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 3: was saying earlier that I think the science stuff in

1236
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 3: this movie it works. I think it works great if

1237
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 3: you don't pay too close attention, if you just take

1238
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 3: it esthetically and you don't try to like analyze it substantively,

1239
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 3: if you just like let it happen as an aesthetic experience,

1240
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 3: it's beautiful.

1241
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, trust scientists, show trust them, they're professionals.

1242
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 3: Somewhere in here we get the scene where one dude

1243
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 3: tries to leave the church at night. Oh, this is

1244
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 3: the guy who's going to get stabbed with a bicycle

1245
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 3: by Alice Cooper. And he finds a crucified pidg in

1246
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 3: the alley when he's going out, So that's not a

1247
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 3: good sign. That's never good. And then he like runs

1248
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 3: into Alice Cooper in the alley and and all of

1249
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 3: his and all of his band, you know, they're they're

1250
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 3: hanging out down there, and he gets he gets impaled

1251
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 3: with the bicycle. Uh, And nobody seems to notice this.

1252
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: This just like happens off to the side while nobody's looking.

1253
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 3: And then finally we get a scene where Lisa reveals

1254
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 3: the translation of the book and sort of summarizes its

1255
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 3: main teachings.

1256
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, we got we got a real doozy come

1257
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: in here.

1258
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 3: Are you ready? Obviously we've had lots of spoilers so far,

1259
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 3: but like, if you know, if you don't want to

1260
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 3: have everything spoiled, you could stop now and watch the

1261
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 3: movie yourself. But here we go. This is like the

1262
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 3: big reveal, she says. And this is a quote with

1263
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 3: some abridgments. The container was buried somewhere in the Middle

1264
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 3: East eons ago by the father of Satan, a god

1265
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 3: who once walked the earth before man, but was somehow

1266
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 3: banished to the dark side. Apparently the father buried his

1267
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 3: son inside the container. Now later on here Christ comes

1268
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 3: to warn us he was of extraterrestrial ancestry, but a

1269
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 3: human like race. Finally, they determine Christ as crazy, but

1270
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 3: he's gaining power converting a lot of people to his beliefs,

1271
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 3: so they kill him, but his disciples keep the secret

1272
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 3: and hide it from civilization until man could develop a

1273
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 3: science sophisticated enough to prove what Christ was saying. And

1274
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 3: then Donald Pleasance goes on to surmise from that that

1275
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 3: the Church kept this a secret for the last two millennia,

1276
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 3: thinking it better to characterize evil as an abstract spiritual

1277
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 3: force rather than as a volume of liquid buried in

1278
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 3: a jar. But I, oh my god, I love this reveal.

1279
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 3: So the idea is that all of Christian history is

1280
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 3: sort of a facade to cover up the reality, which

1281
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 3: is that Jesus was an alien who came to warn

1282
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 3: us that the father of the Devil buried his son

1283
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 3: the devil, which is a jar of liquid in the

1284
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 3: desert somewhere, and it's been hiding there and we have

1285
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 3: to watch out for it.

1286
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's essentially Christianity, if not organized, religion as

1287
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 2: a whole is just a placeholder. It's a band aid

1288
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 2: until science can reach the point where we can actually

1289
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 2: tackle the problem. And you know, now that I say

1290
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 2: it out loud, there are a lot of interesting ways

1291
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 2: to take that apart and look at it. So yeah,

1292
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 2: I like the way it hits in this picture though.

1293
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, oh another funny like report on findings scene.

1294
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 3: This is one of those like how did they figure

1295
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 3: that out? Moments Brian discovers that the green gou is

1296
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 3: one conscious and two capable of telekinesis a little fuzzy

1297
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 3: on how they detected that with the machines, but they

1298
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 3: put it together. So at some point we start getting

1299
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 3: the leaky cylinder, and this is where everything really goes haywire.

1300
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 3: The volume of green goo starts leaking out of the

1301
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:14,639
Speaker 3: container and it drips upwards so against gravity and forms

1302
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 3: a pool on the ceiling of the room. And then

1303
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,680
Speaker 3: Susan Cabot, one of the researchers, notices this. She's like

1304
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 3: down in the room with it. She sees the pool

1305
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 3: on the ceiling and then it sprays into her mouth,

1306
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 3: turning her into a servant. Of Satan, and this starts

1307
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 3: a chain reaction where from here Susan goes on to

1308
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 3: start killing and converting other people in the church. Sometimes

1309
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 3: she'll snap their necks. Sometimes she will infect them and

1310
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 3: turn them into new thralls of the Satan fluid, often

1311
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 3: by like vomiting a jet of fluid out of her

1312
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 3: mouth into somebody else's mouth and face orifices.

1313
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 2: And even if she does kill you, you'll still come

1314
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 2: back and be a servant. Later we see that with

1315
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:57,799
Speaker 2: next Snap dude.

1316
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 3: Yes, And then another type of threat begins, which is

1317
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 3: the same thing we saw earlier that people who try

1318
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 3: to leave the church get attacked by the Alice Cooper crew.

1319
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 3: So a lot of the middle of the movie is

1320
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 3: like scary scenes like this, people getting attacked by the

1321
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,640
Speaker 3: Satan thralls or by the Alice Cooper crew outside in

1322
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 3: any particular scary scenes you want to talk about, rob.

1323
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 2: Ooh, any particular scenes. Oh, I mean, there's a lot

1324
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 2: going on here with characters just sort of like you

1325
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 2: wandering off, maybe you know, going outside even which is

1326
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 2: extra dangerous, and or taking little naps in which we

1327
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 2: get the you know, the reveal about the dreams, which

1328
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,600
Speaker 2: we'll get into here, but I'm trying to remember if

1329
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 2: there's I pretty much any scene in which a character

1330
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 2: spits a stream of green liquid out of their mouth

1331
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: into another character a character's mouth, I'm generally on board for. Also,

1332
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 2: any of the sequences with the cylinder are all great,

1333
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:57,760
Speaker 2: so you know everything's going according to plant. Oh wait,

1334
01:12:57,840 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 2: one scene does come to mind. This is not really

1335
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 2: a scary, but there's a scene where Peter Jason's character

1336
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 2: is moving through like the snack room, the breakroom, the

1337
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 2: kitchen or whatever. And I just both times I watched it,

1338
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 2: I was very captivated by all the things he was

1339
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 2: grabbing because I think he had a coffee cup, who's

1340
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:21,719
Speaker 2: smoking a cigarette, also grabbed two apples and an entire

1341
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 2: package of oreos, and I was like, this man is

1342
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 2: going to get down for what is his discipline. Guess

1343
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 2: he's the microbiologist, a chemist chemist. I think, yeah, this

1344
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 2: guy's about to do some serious chemistry.

1345
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 3: Chemistry with all the package of donut several apples that

1346
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 3: he's doing tricks with, He's like popping them up in

1347
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 3: the air and kind of juggling apples while he's smoking

1348
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 3: and doing kazoo songs. With his mouth.

1349
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah, I had noted that both times I watched.

1350
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 2: I remember that over any actual scares that were happening

1351
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 2: during this portion of the picture.

1352
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 3: Oh, there's another great technobabble scene in here where Barak

1353
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 3: and the priest are talking and the thing, and Barack

1354
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 3: starts to hypothesize that. Okay, maybe if there is a

1355
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 3: universal mind, like a god, controlling every single thing in

1356
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 3: the universe, the movement of every single sub atomic particle.

1357
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 3: He says, well, every particle has an anti particle. It's

1358
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:30,719
Speaker 3: mirror image, it's negative side. Maybe this universal mind resides

1359
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 3: in the mirror image instead of in our universe as

1360
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 3: we wanted to believe. Maybe he's anti god, bringing darkness

1361
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 3: instead of light. Once again, I don't know how well

1362
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 3: that works if you engage too closely with the idea

1363
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 3: of an anti particle. But as pure aesthetics, it's great.

1364
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:48,560
Speaker 3: I love this.

1365
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 2: And so that's ultimately the threat here, the threat of

1366
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 2: the coming of the anti god.

1367
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 3: Yes, so you mentioned the idea of the dream, and

1368
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:59,719
Speaker 3: this is one of my favorite things in the whole movie.

1369
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 3: So what the characters start to discover is that every

1370
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 3: time someone goes to sleep in this church. They have

1371
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 3: the same dream, not just the same dream they had

1372
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 3: last time. All of the different people have the same dream.

1373
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 3: They start comparing notes and realizing they're all dreaming the

1374
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 3: same thing. It's an image of the church seen from

1375
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 3: outside from out front, with a figure in shadow emerging

1376
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 3: from the front doors of the chapel into the daylight,

1377
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,879
Speaker 3: and what sounds like a looping recorded message that begins,

1378
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 3: this is not a dream, not a dream. We are

1379
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 3: using your brain's electrical system as a receiver. And ooh,

1380
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 3: I think of everything in the movie, this was the

1381
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 3: thing the first time I saw it that got me

1382
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 3: the hardest. I love this dream.

1383
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is pretty great. I'm a sucker for any

1384
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 2: kind of like at this point, you know, vintage creepy

1385
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 2: technological transmission, like you know, be at the video drone

1386
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 2: transmission in the original video Drone film, or be at

1387
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 2: the Ring video. I'm on board for all of that,

1388
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:11,759
Speaker 2: and I put this up there with any of those examples.

1389
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 3: Oh it's so good. So we get different snippets of

1390
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 3: the recorded message because characters are often woken up in

1391
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 3: the middle of the dream and they only remember part

1392
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 3: of the message. But like the beginning is what it says,

1393
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 3: this is not a dream. Not a dream, We're using

1394
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 3: your brain's electrical system. And then it says we are

1395
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 3: unable to transmit through conscious neural interference. You are receiving

1396
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 3: this broadcast as a dream. We are transmitting from the

1397
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 3: year one nine nine nine. And then like suddenly, you know,

1398
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 3: the character will snap awake. And so it turns out

1399
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:47,919
Speaker 3: what we learn is that the Brotherhood of Sleep has recorded,

1400
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 3: you know, testimony that anyone in close proximity to the

1401
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:57,479
Speaker 3: church has always had this dream, always has the same dream.

1402
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 3: And Brian suggests a the what if someone is trying

1403
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 3: to communicate with them, This could be a message beamed

1404
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 3: into their brains from the future by the emission of tachions,

1405
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 3: which are hypothetical particles we've never detected directly, but they're

1406
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 3: proposed to exist that sort of fit with existing models

1407
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 3: of physics, hypothetical particles that always move faster than the

1408
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 3: speed of light and thus possibly backwards in time. And

1409
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 3: so the idea is this is a warning scent from

1410
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 3: the future to our brains as receiver antennas in the past,

1411
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 3: and it's an invitation to change the course of history

1412
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,719
Speaker 3: to avert some kind of catastrophic future event.

1413
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I love pretty much all the descriptions of

1414
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 2: this in the film that I think it's later where

1415
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 2: someone talks about how it's like it's like each time

1416
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 2: it's more intense in your mind, as if it's growing

1417
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 2: and pushing other things out of your sleeping mind to

1418
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 2: make room for itself.

1419
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I love that. And so while this is

1420
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,719
Speaker 3: going on, the characters are like learning about the dream

1421
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 3: and comparing notes about that. We also get Susan running

1422
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:11,680
Speaker 3: around recruiting minions. So she infects Lisa, who's the one

1423
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 3: doing the translation of the book of the Brotherhood of Sleep.

1424
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 3: She vomits satanic juice into her mouth, and then she

1425
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 3: also recruits Calder, the microbiologist, and so we get that

1426
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 3: really creepy scene that I love where Lisa is after

1427
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 3: she's infected. She's sitting at the computer typing, not looking

1428
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 3: at the screen, and like one of the professors tries

1429
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 3: to pop into the door and be like, hey, Lisa,

1430
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 3: what's going on, But she's just typing over and over.

1431
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 3: I Live, I Live, I Live. And then later you

1432
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 3: see her type on the screen you will not be

1433
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 3: saved by the Holy Ghost you will not be saved

1434
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 3: by the god Plutonium. In fact, you will not be saved.

1435
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 2: It is interesting that the the Devil the son of

1436
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 2: the anti god here as it's communicating with people, its

1437
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 2: main communications increasingly are kind of taunting. They're kind of like,

1438
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 2: you got no chance. It's not like you need to

1439
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,759
Speaker 2: fall in line or I can do great things for humanity.

1440
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,880
Speaker 2: It's like just just saying, hey, I'm bringing doom and

1441
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 2: there's nothing you can do about it.

1442
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the guys who went outside earlier and

1443
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 3: got killed, he starts calling everybody to the window and

1444
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 3: he's like standing there in zombie form in the parking

1445
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:24,560
Speaker 3: lot below, and they're like, hey, what's going on, and

1446
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 3: he just yells at them like pray for death.

1447
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then collapses into beatles. Great, great scene.

1448
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 3: So the remaining researchers are increasingly overtly threatened by the

1449
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,880
Speaker 3: servants of Satan, and they start finding themselves like they

1450
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 3: first they discovered they're barricaded inside the church. The Alice

1451
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:44,600
Speaker 3: Cooper band has piled up trash and furniture on the

1452
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 3: doors outside. Calder, who has been possessed by the Devil,

1453
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:53,640
Speaker 3: he like stabs himself with a steak of wood in

1454
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 3: the throat in front of everyone in a horrifying scene.

1455
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,880
Speaker 3: Susan and Lisa end up bringing the cylinder of goop

1456
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 3: up from the basement and they take it to a

1457
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:06,760
Speaker 3: sleeping Kelly where it pools on the ceiling and then

1458
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 3: it drains down from the ceiling into Kelly's mouth and eyes.

1459
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 2: So oops.

1460
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 3: I think Kelly might be the chosen one. And we

1461
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 3: later learned about like she had a mark on her

1462
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 3: arm that was growing. She didn't know what it was,

1463
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:20,760
Speaker 3: but it takes the form of I think they say

1464
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 3: they call it the magician staff. It's like a symbol

1465
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 3: that is not good news.

1466
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:28,680
Speaker 2: I think that Carpenter said they got the symbol from

1467
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 2: a Blue Oyster CULTU. I mean, and you know it

1468
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:36,679
Speaker 2: likely has I'm sure it has a history pre dating

1469
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:39,320
Speaker 2: Blue Oyster Cult. But there you have it.

1470
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 3: So in the final act, we get less reveals about

1471
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 3: the mythos. You know, it's starting to all kind of

1472
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 3: come together, but instead it turns into more action and

1473
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 3: desperate horror. So the final act involves various demon sieges.

1474
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,560
Speaker 3: You mentioned there are elements of the Siege movie to this,

1475
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 3: as there certainly are, like the remaining humans get sort

1476
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:02,640
Speaker 3: of herded into different rooms of the church or defensive positions,

1477
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:05,679
Speaker 3: Like there's one part where the character waltered and it's done.

1478
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 3: He gets stuck in a closet where he can like

1479
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 3: look through a sort of a confessional screen out at

1480
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:14,799
Speaker 3: Kelly as she's being transformed into the host of Satan,

1481
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,719
Speaker 3: and he's like freaked out and his friends are trying

1482
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:21,679
Speaker 3: to like dig him out through a wall. We also

1483
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 3: get resurrected versions of the dead scientists. Calder especially is

1484
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,800
Speaker 3: awesome in this form. He's the one who can't stop

1485
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 3: laughing and he's very creepy. And eventually Kelly gets turned

1486
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:39,680
Speaker 3: into this absolutely horrifying anti god vessel who is like

1487
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 3: she's awake and she's got these wide wild eyes, like

1488
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 3: she's thrilled to be in physical form again and just

1489
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 3: like testing her limits. Except she's in Kelly's body, Kelly's

1490
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 3: original body, but with mangled, burned, bloody flesh. Is disgusting

1491
01:21:57,200 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 3: to look at.

1492
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always kind of thought about that. This is

1493
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 2: one of the things that I've always noticed about this

1494
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:06,040
Speaker 2: particular character is that she does the effects here are great,

1495
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 2: and she looks disgusting, and I feel like it does

1496
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 2: feel like an intentional choice, Like they didn't try to

1497
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:18,560
Speaker 2: make her like horror cool or horror sexy, you know,

1498
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:23,479
Speaker 2: like she's supposed to be just this gross, zombified slab

1499
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 2: of rotting meat. Like the possession is just decaying or

1500
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 2: flash or something. So it's an interesting look, and especially

1501
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 2: with the hair remaining pristine, like the blonde hair has

1502
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:39,839
Speaker 2: been untouched by the corruption, but the flash is all decayed.

1503
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:41,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, the big eyes steering out of.

1504
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:43,960
Speaker 3: It, it's tremendously revolting.

1505
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1506
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 3: Now, there are actually some more conversations that go on

1507
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 3: with the remaining human characters. There's one thing where they

1508
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 3: talk about how they believe. For some reason, I think

1509
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 3: there was something about this in the Brotherhood of Sleep

1510
01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 3: book that the goal of Satan here is to bring

1511
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 3: back his father from the dark side. Somehow his father,

1512
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 3: the anti god, was banished to the sort of inverse universe,

1513
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 3: and Satan wants to bring his father back. There's an

1514
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:16,759
Speaker 3: interesting thing where at multiple times we notice Donald Pleasance

1515
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 3: reverts to prayers and the Bible, like he's reading from

1516
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 3: the Bible or saying Christian prayers. Like he does this

1517
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 3: at a short funeral they hold for Calder, and he's

1518
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 3: also praying and like reading from some kind of book

1519
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:33,479
Speaker 3: when he's in danger. And I thought this was interesting

1520
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 3: in that he's doing this even though he seems to

1521
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:39,600
Speaker 3: have been convinced earlier that the official doctrine in mythology

1522
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 3: of the Church is purely a fiction to cover up

1523
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,880
Speaker 3: the truth about Christ as an alien. But it's like

1524
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 3: he can't give it up. He still needs it.

1525
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when during a stressful situation, you know,

1526
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 2: what are you going to do? You're gonna fall back

1527
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:56,600
Speaker 2: on your faith in previous models of your faith and

1528
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 2: so forth.

1529
01:23:57,320 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 3: It's like he's fully convinced that the metaphysics of his

1530
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:04,760
Speaker 3: religion are are untrue, but he still needs the act

1531
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 3: of his religion. He still needs to be able to pray.

1532
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 3: So there are again there's the Siege movie aspects. They're

1533
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 3: like fighting off demon attacks on the rooms. There's one

1534
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 3: part that's funny where the scientists are defending a room

1535
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:20,719
Speaker 3: against a zombie attack and Professor Barak uses a shaken

1536
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:22,040
Speaker 3: up soda can as a weapon.

1537
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a master of physics, man, you can't mess

1538
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:24,680
Speaker 2: with him.

1539
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:28,400
Speaker 3: I love that. And they're all like they're dodging streams

1540
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 3: of satan juice vomit while the Satan hosting Kelly oh Man.

1541
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:37,799
Speaker 3: There's a creepy scene where she starts looking into mirrors,

1542
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 3: like she finds a little makeup compact and looks into

1543
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:45,559
Speaker 3: the mirror in it and says, father, it's so creepy,

1544
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:48,759
Speaker 3: and I like that the mirror she's looking into appears

1545
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:50,800
Speaker 3: to be showing static like an old TV.

1546
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I love the use of mirrors here. Obviously,

1547
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:58,240
Speaker 2: you know, it's very Alice in Wonderland. Very bores as well,

1548
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 2: the idea that the mirror is a gateway to the

1549
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 2: unseen world, to the realm where this ancient being is imprisoned.

1550
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 2: And it's also kind of interesting to think about this

1551
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 2: in terms of, Okay, you're the son of the anti god,

1552
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,600
Speaker 2: waking up during the mid nineteen eighties, and you have

1553
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 2: not been privy to any of human history really at

1554
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 2: this point? Is that correct?

1555
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 3: So it was buried before like eons ago?

1556
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 2: They say, yeah, so you've never seen a mirror, not

1557
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 2: like this, I mean, the best.

1558
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 3: You could ever seen a human?

1559
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:33,800
Speaker 2: I guess, never seen a human, yea, never never seen

1560
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 2: a mirror, I guess the best you could hope for

1561
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:40,200
Speaker 2: would have been reflection in water, that sort of thing.

1562
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 2: So very very exciting here for ancient evil entities of

1563
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 2: venturing into our reality. And you don't even know how

1564
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 2: big mirrors get culturally become important.

1565
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,400
Speaker 3: That's right. So the first attempt to contact the anti

1566
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 3: god through the mirror fails, but then Kelly goes to

1567
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 3: another room, goes to another room, the bigger mirror, and

1568
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 3: this is the room where Donald Pleasance is like hiding

1569
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,560
Speaker 3: behind a piece of furniture. So she goes up to

1570
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:09,320
Speaker 3: the mirror and then it starts saying like father, and

1571
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 3: the mirror fills with light and like, oh we are

1572
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 3: tuned in now, baby, It's something is happening. She starts

1573
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 3: reaching in through the mirror and we see her hand

1574
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 3: emerging on the other side, and it's an underwater shot,

1575
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:24,879
Speaker 3: like a hand reaching under the surface of a liquid.

1576
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, some great effects here with the surface of

1577
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:31,719
Speaker 2: the mirror that I believe they said he use mercury

1578
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,720
Speaker 2: here to create this effect. So a bit dangerous but

1579
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 2: worth it. Yeah.

1580
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 3: So Donald Pleasance tries to intervene, like he chops off

1581
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 3: the demon Kelly's arm with an axe, but then she

1582
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 3: immediately grows a new one. Then he chops off her head,

1583
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 3: but she picks it up and puts it back on.

1584
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 3: It seems like there's nothing stopping her. But finally, just

1585
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 3: as she is about to pull her father, the anti god,

1586
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 3: through through the mirror from the other side, Catherine intervenes.

1587
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 3: So Kelly is like reaching in grasping a shadowy hand

1588
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 3: on the other side, Catherine sees what's happening. In a

1589
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 3: moment of clarity, she realizes what's about to take place,

1590
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:13,599
Speaker 3: and she runs and tackles the satan possessed. Kelly tackles

1591
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 3: her into the mirror, so Catherine also disappears into the mirror,

1592
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:22,759
Speaker 3: and then Donald pleasant smashes the mirror with his axe.

1593
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible sequence.

1594
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 3: So this causes sort of it cuts the connection to

1595
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 3: the demonic power. The zombies all collapse. They fall down dead.

1596
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 3: Alice Cooper's crew are no longer possessed. They sort of

1597
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 3: go off mission and then just wander off on their

1598
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 3: own business. Kelly and Catherine have vanished, Brian Walter, Barack,

1599
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 3: and Donald Pleasance have survived, and the next morning we

1600
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:48,519
Speaker 3: see characters sort of being taken to the hospital or

1601
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 3: trying to figure out what this all means, and Donald

1602
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 3: Pleasant says, we stopped it. The future conjured up by

1603
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 3: that vile serpent. It will not happen now, and Barack says,

1604
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 3: we're safe. He's waiting on the other side. She died

1605
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,200
Speaker 3: for us, and so you think it's all over. But

1606
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 3: then somebody starts having the dream again. We go back

1607
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:12,800
Speaker 3: to the dream, and it turns out it's Brian having

1608
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 3: the dream, and the recorded message plays and the dark

1609
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:17,600
Speaker 3: figure begins to come out of the church, and this

1610
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 3: time we see a part of the message we've never

1611
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 3: made it to before. We get later and later, and

1612
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:25,840
Speaker 3: it's revealed that the dark figure coming out of the

1613
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 3: doors of the church is Catherine, and Brian suddenly wakes up.

1614
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 3: He wakes from a horrible nightmare. He like imagines that

1615
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 3: she's lying there, bloodied and mangled in the same way

1616
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 3: that Kelly was as the host of Satan. But he

1617
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:43,479
Speaker 3: wakes up and he's alone in his room, in his bed,

1618
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 3: and then the pulsing music starts again. Something is wrong

1619
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 3: with the world still, and he looks in the mirror

1620
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:53,519
Speaker 3: on his wall and slowly he reaches out to touch it,

1621
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 3: and then cut to credits.

1622
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:58,800
Speaker 2: A yeah, right, as the music is building too, like

1623
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 2: it's it's so perfect ending.

1624
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 3: Love the ending powerful, so good. So yeah, I love

1625
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 3: Prince of Darkness. I think it is such a powerfully moody,

1626
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 3: ominous horror film, just a tremendous menace, and it establishes

1627
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,479
Speaker 3: a tone almost like no other film I can think of.

1628
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, so ambitious too, not only in terms of,

1629
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 2: you know, these themes of quantum mechanics and theology, but

1630
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 2: also just you know, the other choices that Carpenter made

1631
01:29:28,200 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 2: in attempting to make a film that stood out from

1632
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 2: what he perceived as some of the sameness that was

1633
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,679
Speaker 2: present in the horror genre at the time. And honestly,

1634
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 2: as there's almost always some like swell of sameness in

1635
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:43,720
Speaker 2: the horror genre at any given point, So kudos to

1636
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 2: anybody who tries to break through that, to push through that,

1637
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:50,920
Speaker 2: almost as if like pushing through that mirror, right and

1638
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:52,639
Speaker 2: reaching something on the other side.

1639
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 3: Here's something I wonder about. I wonder what you think.

1640
01:29:56,600 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 3: This movie has strong themes of science and technology. Most

1641
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:03,599
Speaker 3: of the major characters are scientists. They're doing scientific tests

1642
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 3: for most of the film, and yet I am not

1643
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 3: at all tempted to think of this as a science

1644
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:14,120
Speaker 3: fiction movie. It is definitely horror. Why does why does

1645
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:17,080
Speaker 3: my brain subconsciously just classify it that way without a

1646
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:17,719
Speaker 3: second thought.

1647
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 2: Hmmm, Yeah, that's a good question, Like is it Is

1648
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 2: it ultimately any less science fiction than the thing? And

1649
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:31,360
Speaker 2: yet you know, I'm far far more likely to classify

1650
01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 2: the thing, John Carpenter, Is the thing as sci fi horror? Yeah?

1651
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:37,760
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know exactly what it is.

1652
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 2: Maybe the degree to which like direct technology is employed.

1653
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:48,759
Speaker 2: Like nobody like builds a technology technology based trap. Nobody

1654
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 2: uses a ray gun or a symbol some sort of

1655
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 2: electroshock device. I don't know.

1656
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:58,040
Speaker 3: You know, there are movies where there are mysterious or

1657
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 3: unexplainable phenomena that are first thought of to be supernatural,

1658
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:04,719
Speaker 3: but then it is discovered that they are like physical

1659
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:07,840
Speaker 3: in nature, they have a scientific explanation. And then there

1660
01:31:07,880 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 3: are movies where there are mysterious phenomena that are first

1661
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:13,680
Speaker 3: thought of to be physical, but they're discovered to have

1662
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:18,599
Speaker 3: a supernatural explanation. In this movie, I can't quite tell

1663
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:22,240
Speaker 3: what they have discovered, Like we sort of get an explanation,

1664
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 3: but I don't know how to classify it is the

1665
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 3: ultimate explanation supernatural or physical? Does that make sense?

1666
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I guess some of it kind of

1667
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,480
Speaker 2: comes down to the idea that everything kind of collapses

1668
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 2: into into what like missing shadow smoking shadows.

1669
01:31:38,160 --> 01:31:41,839
Speaker 3: You know that it is you can't tell the difference

1670
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:47,120
Speaker 3: between between the sufficiently powerful and understandable alien presence and

1671
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:49,360
Speaker 3: like a ghost or a spirit from beyond.

1672
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:52,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, this is a film where science has failed

1673
01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 2: us to a certain extent, and so has religion, and

1674
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 2: these are the consequences of those failures.

1675
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:01,519
Speaker 3: It's beyond science or religion, and you can't even understand

1676
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 3: whether what you're dealing with is natural or supernatural.

1677
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1678
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, that does seem more like horror, I guess.

1679
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I think it is far easier to say

1680
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 2: Friends of Darkness, solid horror film with science elements to it.

1681
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:15,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1682
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 2: All right, Well, there you have it. Happy Halloween. Just

1683
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 2: reminded that stuff to Blow your Mind is primarily a

1684
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:25,320
Speaker 2: science and culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

1685
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 2: but on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to

1686
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:30,599
Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film on Weird House. Cinema.

1687
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:32,759
Speaker 2: You can find a full list of all the movies

1688
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:35,559
Speaker 2: we've covered over the years at letterbox dot com. That's

1689
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 2: L E T T E R B O x D

1690
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 2: dot com. Our user name there is weird House, and

1691
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,600
Speaker 2: that's where you'll find the list. Hey, go to our

1692
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:45,439
Speaker 2: tea public store if you like. We have a couple

1693
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 2: of Halloween shirts up as well as they rub the

1694
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 2: fur shirt if you want to get in on that.

1695
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 2: You know, those are just for fun. But if you

1696
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 2: you know, if you want to stick her a shirt, yeah,

1697
01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:57,280
Speaker 2: check it out. It's well, I guess it's a way

1698
01:32:57,320 --> 01:32:58,679
Speaker 2: to sort of spread the word about the show.

1699
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 3: Huge Things always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway. If

1700
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:04,680
Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with

1701
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a

1702
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you

1703
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 3: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your

1704
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

1705
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1706
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.