WEBVTT - EP 297: Stacey Abrams on Leveling Up Your Business 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.400 Hey, Hey, hey va fam, It's Vandy back with another 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:07.040 episode of Brown Ambition. Thank you all so much for 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.720 joining me this week. I wish I could say that 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.080 I'm not okay, y'all. I want to be okay. I 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.079 feel like I should be okay, but still here, I 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.919 am sitting here in disbelief that I had the opportunity 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:27.880 to sit across the virtual table from one of my heroes, 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:34.400 one of a living American hero. Oh my god, Stacy Abrams. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:39.639 I oh, it's been over a week and I am 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:44.199 still not okay. I'm still not okay, you guys. But 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.840 do y'all remember and we're gonna get to the interview 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.000 I promised. But do you remember when I had Chris 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.920 Browning from Popcorn Finance on the show a few weeks ago, 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.120 and I was telling Chris. We were just sort of 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.000 both talking about how a lot of the opportunities that 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:01.000 we were receiving once we launched our businesses coming to us, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.000 and people had already been talking about us in rooms 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.480 that we were not in, and people were saying, you know, 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:08.920 we want to reach out to Chris, we want to 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.360 reach out to Mandy. And then those opportunities came to us, 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.800 and we didn't have to do anything to get those 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.720 opportunities other than keep doing the work that we're doing, 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:20.959 because we know that our names, our businesses would be 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.560 on the tips of the tongues of people in those rooms, 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.920 you know, who are making decisions and you know, have 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.600 the power at the table, and just kind of the 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.640 magic and releasing and just like accepting that if we 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.520 keep continuing to do the work, those conversations will be 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.160 happening in rooms that we're not even sitting in. I 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.399 remember having that moment on the show where you know, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.560 we were sitting there and I was like, that's happening 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.520 right now, Chris. You know there's a room somewhere and 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.080 there's an amazing opportunity. And because of the work that 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:52.040 we're doing right now and the work that we've been 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.640 doing for the past year or even years in our cases, 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.560 those opportunities are going to come to us. All we 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.800 got to keep doing is doing the good work that 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.800 we set out to do when we launched our businesses, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.840 right and then lo and beyond, One of those conversations 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:08.840 happened in a room that I was not sitting in, 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.760 and someone at this publishing house called Portfolio said, you 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.280 know where we think would be a great place for 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.240 Stacy Abrams to promote her new business book, Level Up. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.560 I think we should reach out to those fabulous women 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.640 at Brown Ambition Podcast and see if they'll have Stacy on. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.360 And I kid you not through the contact form on 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.679 our website. Hi Nina, I'm just gonna go ahead and 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.000 shout you out. The wonderful Nina who's in publicity at Portfolio. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.320 The publisher reached out to me so casually, did not 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.280 even put Stacy's name in the subject line. Like my 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.440 assistant forwarded me this email and it was so nondescript. 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.120 The subject line was something very general like new guest 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.880 for your show, which is every single email that we 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:55.840 get at Brown Ambition, right, it's someone wanting to be 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.600 on the show, you know, and anyway, And then you 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.520 open the email to find out it's the delightful Nina 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.000 from this publicity firm, and she's wondering, you know, love 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.880 your show, wondering if you'd be interested in having Stacy 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.400 Abrams come on sometime to talk about this new business 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.200 book that she's got coming out in February. When I 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.680 tell you, my jaw dropped like, is this a real question? 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:24.400 Would we would brown? And would Brown Ambition want to 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.520 have the queen of Brown Ambition? If you looked up 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.360 Brown Ambition, if we ever get included in Webster's dictionary, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.880 literally put a picture of Stacy Abrams there and that 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.280 would be all we needed to get our point across, 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:42.280 that is Brown Ambition, Would we would I want to 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:43.840 talk to Stacy Abrams? 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:44.960 Are you kid? 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:46.360 Oh? My god? 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:48.720 And that is basically my reaction. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:49.080 Now. 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:51.880 I kept it together because Nina didn't know me yet, right. 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.080 I wanted to just, you know, make sure that she, 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.800 you know, thought that I was like a reasonable human 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.200 being who had all of her marbles together, right, So 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.880 kept my cool took about a month, but we actually 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.320 got it. On the calendar Stacy Abrams was going to 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:12.560 be joining Brown Ambition, and I guess I just told myself, Uh, 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.360 you know, Stacy's very busy. She's recently announced she's going 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:18.880 to be running for governor of my home state, Georgia 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.080 again in twenty twenty two. Like she's probably gonna like 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.279 Oprah's probably gonna call her up on this Monday afternoon 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.120 and she's probably gonna reschedule or it'll get moved, and 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.840 this happens with extremely famous, influential people. But when I 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.800 tell you on the dot one o'clock PM arrived on 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:42.680 this afternoon last week and on my computer screen across 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:47.200 from me sat the gorgeous, the amazing, the intelligent, the 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.640 incomparable Stacy Abrams, and we had with her business partner 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:56.680 Lara Hodgson, a really wonderful conversation that I immediately felt like 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.520 I blacked out and remembered nothing of it. But my 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.040 producer on the show tell me that it did indeed happen, 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.119 and we have a record of it. Stacy Abrams joined 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.800 Brown Ambition with her business partner Lara Hodgson. And what 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.920 I love about this conversation is it made so much 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.480 sense and what made it actually possible for me to 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.320 keep myself together And I think, talk to Stacy, who 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:24.039 I just admire so much, and I can't even I 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.039 could just go on forever. But what made it possible 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.320 for me was because their book is genuinely meant to 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.640 help business owners, and especially business owners who are women, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.720 who are people from marginalized communities, who don't always have 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.520 all the resources and knowledge to actually launch a business. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.000 And I read their book and I loved it and 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.919 we connected on that level. You know, Stacy Abrams. If 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.320 y'all don't know, this woman is a serial entrepreneur. And 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.080 I'm actually embarrassed as a fan of hers, of a 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.720 fan of her work and politics. Obviously, I didn't know 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.840 that much about Stacy's past as an entrepreneur, her past, present, 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.960 and future as an entrepren newer. But in the early 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:06.039 two thousands, Stacy and her business partner Lara, they launched 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:11.080 a baby water company called Nourish Okay, And prior to that, 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:16.120 they owned a consulting firm together called Insomnia Consulting. And Stacy, 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.719 she writes about this in the book, actually started those 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.920 businesses because she realized going into public office. You know, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.400 she didn't start out being this obviously, this national figure 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.080 with you know, on the cover of magazines and all 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:33.440 of that. She was earning peanuts as a state representative, okay, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:35.960 and the House Minority leader. They don't pay you very much, Okay. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.040 For those of y'all who think the politics is all 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.440 glitz and glamour, it's really not. And so Stacy genuinely 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.960 was like, I need to make money. So she and 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.920 her business partner Laura, They launched a consulting firm together, 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.120 and then together they realized, you know, we want to 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.599 actually create a business that could make money for us passively. 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.760 That isn't just you know, behold, isn't just a business 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.680 that we have to show up and physically be present 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.120 for and have you spend all this time devoting our 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.120 energy to. So they came up with this idea, this 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.080 brilliant idea for a baby water company. Now, parents, if 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.160 you know, you know baby water makes a lot of sense. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:11.280 I'm not going to take a lot of time to 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.120 explain it here. But they launched his business in the 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:18.800 early two thousands, and they actually grew out of business. 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.120 And this was a concept that I hadn't heard before, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.160 but they actually got too big and too successful and 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.200 they couldn't afford They weren't able to actually scale in 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.200 time financially to get to the point where they could 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.200 fulfill these big, huge orders they were getting because they 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.400 were so successful. This crazy crossroads for them where they 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.760 had to basically fold their business. They left the business. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.840 The business went under because they grew out of business. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.280 They were just too big, too soon, and they weren't 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:50.040 financially prepared to handle that, and it's a fascinating story 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:51.880 that they go through in their book. The book is 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.280 called Level up Rise Above the Hidden Forces Holding Your 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.640 Business Back, and they dissect and basically do a post 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.240 mortem on their baby water company, Nourish, and it has 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.240 so many amazing, juicy anecdotes and actually helpful I had 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.120 a couple of Aha moments myself, as a new business 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.120 owner an entrepreneur from reading this book and thinking about, Okay, 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.200 you know the business that I have is structured in 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.920 this way, and what is my big pie in the 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.360 sky goal for mandy money? What do I actually want 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.560 it to be? Is this going to be a business 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.600 that lives and dies with me? Or is it going 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.200 to be a business that I could pass on to 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.320 my family one day or that could actually employ dozens 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.600 of people one day. So I really encourage you guys 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.439 to check out this book again. It's called Level up 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.040 Rise Above the Hidden Forces Holding Your Business Back. Without 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.400 further ado, I'm going to get out of my own 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:47.240 way again and invite you guys to sit back and 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.720 enjoy this conversation with Stacy Abrams. I cannot believe those 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.880 words are leaving my mouth right now. But yes, here's 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.320 my conversation with Stacy and Lara. I had to say 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.680 thank you again so much to me and all the 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.120 team over at Portfolio for making this interview happen. Here 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:08.000 we go, let's level up with Stacy Abrams and Lara Hodgson. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.400 So basically, I just want to jump in and chat 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.760 with you guys. I have to say first and foremost, 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.280 I wasn't expecting this reaction from reading the book, but 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:21.480 it made me miss my podcast business partner Tiffany so much. 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.840 She's been on hiatus. She unfortunately lost her husband in 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:27.840 late fall, so she's been on hiatus and I've been 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.600 flying solo and it's been weird, and you know, I 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.240 feel great in doing that for her, but also your book. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.559 The fact that you guys met in a very similar 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.560 fashion to how Tiffany and I met seven years ago. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:43.480 We met at a professional event. But the difference between 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.240 you two and us two is that she and I 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.240 bonded over both being wild introverts and needing to just 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.080 go plug ourselves in somewhere together. And you guys bonded 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.040 because you both wanted to be the leader of the 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:55.120 free world right. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.559 But I wanted to do it secretly as an it 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.240 That's right, So. 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:04.360 That was your stacy. You said that as an introvert. Yes, yes, 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.000 I feel like you have made introverted people feel really cool, Stacy, 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.880 So I have to thank you for that. First and 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.360 foremost and all serious is now in the book. Obviously, 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.640 you guys are business partners but incredibly different in so 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.320 many ways, and you talk about how in the book 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:23.280 those differences are what made you such good business partners. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.720 And as a newbie business owner myself, I just launched 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.960 my business in the past, I'm just like every other 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.360 a lot of pandemic, you know, related business entrepreneurs, launching 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.960 your business as a means of pivoting and finding a 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.840 new path. But you guys are so different. Talk to 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.480 me about how those differences have helped you and how 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.240 business owners can maybe hinder themselves by maybe surrounding themselves 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.600 with too many people who are just like them. 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.120 So yeah, I think you know, most people would say 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.600 that common knowledge is that having diverse sets of views 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:02.199 ads for a richer conversation, richer discovery. And certainly when 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.040 you're thinking about as an entrepreneur and you're trying to 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:11.160 drive innovation or do things differently. Having different perspectives always 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.600 adds to the possibilities. I think what a lot of 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.880 people realize is when they start to be surrounded by differences, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:23.200 there's some discomfort. Right. Things don't necessarily go on the 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:27.040 surface as easily and as smoothly as you would think, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:28.920 and so they sort of stop. It's kind of like 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.080 you face that initial friction and you say, oh wait, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.199 it's way more comfortable to be surrounded by people that 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:35.640 don't question me. 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.120 But I think Stacy. 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.280 And I both have an innate curiosity and we love learning, 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.360 and so getting yourself to a point where you can 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.160 be comfortable with some of that friction, because the friction 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.680 is the friction's what allows you to unveil the wow. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:53.400 Right. 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.280 Without that friction, you don't get the awesomeness that comes 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.280 after it. So I think Stacy and I were lucky 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.240 to meet in an environment where we were able to 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:08.079 appreciate our differences but also appreciate that what we are 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:13.160 aligned on is character traits and what sort of the 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.760 important things to us were that we would never give on. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.040 I would add that part of the mission is to 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.280 always be adding to what you do. You want to 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:24.840 add to your bottom line. You want to add to 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.520 your product line, you want to add to your deliverables. Well, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.640 in a partnership, you want to add to your store 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.720 of knowledge. And Lara reference the curiosity and the fact 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:35.680 that we like to keep learning. But what is so 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.640 important about our partnership is that we know completely different things. 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:46.480 We come to these projects with vastly different knowledge bases, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.959 and we learned from each other, but we also add 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.640 to one another's understanding of what we think we already know. 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.640 One of our sort of core beliefs is I'd rather 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.760 have fifty percent of something than one hundred percent of nothing, 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.920 And the same is true about having a partner that's different. 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:08.439 I'd rather add to my hundred by getting something else, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.040 as opposed to just doubling what I've already got, Because 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:16.080 doubling what I've got, the actual increase is nominal. But 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.400 if I bring in someone who has different skills, a 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:25.200 different background, a different mindset, it helps me build my 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.000 skills too. But it also gives me someone to rely on. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:29.240 It. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.760 It's a great backup plan. Like that's the other part. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.600 I am really happy to have a backup brain. That 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:37.760 means I don't have to be the one thinking about 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.200 things all the time. And when you have a partner, 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.600 especially a partner who you trust to think differently but 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.920 has your same core values, you can let your brain rest. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.120 I mean you referenced earlier your business partner, Tiffany, I 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.640 know that if something happened. In fact, in our lives, 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:59.439 things always happen. I can feel a little bit of 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.280 guilt for not being present, but I don't feel worry 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.120 for not being the one there. And that's an incredible difference, 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.560 because I may want to be there, but I know 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.840 it's going to get done, and I know it's going 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.360 to get done not the way I would have done it, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.960 but in a way I will respect and trust and 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:17.800 in a way that's going to reveal new things we 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:18.800 may not have imagined. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.040 That trust is so crucial. I love how you guys 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.040 also say that maybe one of your strengths was not 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.440 being besties, and tiff and I have talked about that. 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.200 You know, we are extremely closed in a business sense 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.200 and on a personal level too, but it was always 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.080 that the fact that we weren't best friends, that we 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.320 show up weekly for seven years, and we were making 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.520 no money for a very long time. Okay, when you 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.640 show up weekly and you have a standing appointment with someone, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.560 I feel like, if they're your best friend, you're maybe 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.120 gonna show up late. You know, let's just not do 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.120 it today. But we both had that level of like, Okay, 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.240 I don't know them that well, I can't just flake 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.800 on them. And I think that that has helped as well. 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:58.960 I love the anecdote in your story if we can 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.920 talk about it for a little bit, Stacy, especially when 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.480 you were early so we're going to talk about Nourish, 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.960 which was your baby water company, but before even that, 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:13.000 you guys had a consultancy together, Insomnia Consulting, and I 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.040 think in those early I don't know if it was 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.520 early months, but Stacy, when you and Laura would go 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.840 into boardrooms together, you would find what you perceived and 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.240 you felt that racial bias against you, you know, people 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.520 in the room turning toward Lara or acknowledging Lara before 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.480 you and y'all had to have a frank discussion. And 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.600 I wondered if you could chat a little bit about that, 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:34.440 because that is a test of I think what we're 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.200 talking about here, that trust in one another. And I 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.560 kind of enjoy I loved reading that because I thought 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.480 it was a great example of how to have those 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.400 difficult conversations as partners. 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.800 I spend my life in spaces where I am the 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.200 only one who looks like me, unless I'm in a 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.880 space where the person bringing the coffee, taking the notes, 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.320 or cleaning the office looks like me, and so I 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.080 do not have from that this heightened sense of racial awareness. 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.600 I have a very real sense of my space, in 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.120 part because I don't ever want to miss the opportunity 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.120 to grow, because I think it's something that they see 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.160 versus something that I've done. And I think that's an 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.720 important caveat, because it's easy to dismiss concerns about racial 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.120 or gender bias by assuming people are just being overly sensitive. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.600 I'm a black woman from the Deep South. My sensitivity 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:27.880 has been both honed and dulled, so you know, you 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.560 can you can tell the difference usually. But what happened 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:34.200 in this instance was that we were in the antique 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.680 used in the book, and were we went to meet 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.160 with clients and they were excited about the work we 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.480 could do. We go into the room and then there 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.680 are two pieces. One is that Laura is much more 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.240 extroverted than I am, as we discussed, and she's the CEO, 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.560 and so my natural deference is that she's our principle. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.040 When we go into a space, she's the principle, but 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.520 I know what I bring with me, and so my 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.800 first reaction when we were in the room was simply, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.600 they were talking to the principle until they were talking 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.440 about things that I was the expert on, and when 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.440 I would answer, they would look to her to essentially 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:09.879 validate that I had the right to be speaking. And 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.120 it was a very It was a dynamic that wasn't unfamiliar, 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.120 and I tried not to chafe at it, but as 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.760 it persisted, I realized there was nothing into Amanda, You've 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.160 probably done this. There are these in Laura too. When 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.239 you're in the space where you know there's something going on, 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.480 you'll kind of test it to say maybe I'm overreacting, 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.199 maybe this isn't true. All they failed every test, and 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.520 I tried multiple ones. I did like multivector analysis here, 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.160 and so by the time we were done, when we 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.040 were in the car going back to the airport. For 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.119 most of us, especially in a partnership where you're not 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.360 best friends or in a partnership where money's the bottom line. 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.760 You're going to suck it up, you're going to see, 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.040 you're going to build resentment, or you're going to be 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.520 passive aggressive, and then you're going to get mad for 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.520 someone not seeing what you saw. But part of being 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.000 different is that you can't expect people to have the 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:06.080 same experiences, and the responsibility is on the person who 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.640 sees something to say something. And what is so terrific 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.119 about being partners with Laura was that when she asked 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.120 me the first time, I did the stoicism, No, everything's fine. 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.439 When she asked me the second time, I did the well, 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:18.480 why didn't you see it? 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.520 In my head? But I just kind of glossed over. 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.600 And then I looked at her and I thought, why, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.000 we have all kinds of skills between us, but neither 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.359 of us has telepathy. The absence of telepathy is a problem, 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.919 and so she can't know unless I tell her. And 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.359 so I said, this is what happened. This was the experience, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.080 And to Lara's great credit, there wasn't this instant rejection 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.280 of it. There was an inquiry. Okay, so tell me 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.560 what happened, tell me how you saw it, and we 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:46.760 walked through it, and I didn't have to justify my 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.920 experience to her. And when she heard me describe it, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.639 she immediately validated. She's like, oh, now I see it, 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.919 because she was in there to sell and she did 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.680 a great job at it, and she is so used 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.160 to seeing things she understands the gender side of it. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.000 There was enough commonality between us because of our gendered 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.880 experience that she could understand what I was seeing. All 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:08.800 of which was to say that we had a new 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.200 protocol and one of the protocols, And this is true 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.399 for women and politics, women in business. We have to 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.600 be credentialed. People have to know why we're there, and 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.800 the same thing is true for people of color. And 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.960 if you're a woman of color, the credentials have to 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.199 usually be tattooed on your forehead and so and then 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.040 they're going to be like, there's something on your head. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.360 And then validated by a white person who's read them 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.080 and says, yes, I endorse exactly. 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.800 But because of the grounding that Lara and I have 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.680 and the honesty we share, but also just the sheer 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.600 acknowledgment of the society we're in, we didn't have to 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.920 navigate all of that, Lara said, Okay, here's what we're 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:45.639 going to do. I said, if we can do it 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.600 this way, and we walked through what we were going 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.119 to do going forward, and it worked. There were always 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.159 going to be moments where it happened again, but we 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:53.800 knew how. 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:54.680 To prepare for it. 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.959 But more importantly, I wasn't trying to navigate my partnership 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:00.520 at the same time when I was navigating this other space. 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:01.680 La. I don't know if you want to add anything 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:01.840 to that. 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.160 Yeah, no, I think you know Stacy said it earlier. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.440 We we all come to the to the world into 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:13.359 every situation with a lens that's only informed by our 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:18.639 own experiences, and so I think sometimes when another person 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.760 doesn't see what we see, like Stacy said, your internal 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.480 monologue is immediately to sort of judge, why didn't they 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:25.919 see that? 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:26.480 They? 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.240 You know, they and you make all sorts of assumptions 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:34.320 and conclusions. When Stacy first shared with me what she 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.720 had experienced in the room, you know, my first thought was, 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.680 my gosh, we were in the same room, right, Why 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.439