1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about Taylor Swift. 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: He might seem like an unlikely subject for Stuff I'm 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: Never Told You, So to begin, Caroline, I first wanted 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: to pick your brain as to why t Swizzle. Yeah, well, 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: my boyfriend. Actually not to sound like I'm just talking 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: about my boyfriend, right, you can talk about him. Well, 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: it's real cute. No, My my boyfriend works in the 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: music industry and had made a couple of comments to 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: me recently about liking Taylor Swift, appreciating her or even 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: admiring the way she does business and the way she 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: interacts with her fans. And I sort of shrugged off 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: the comments because he's not the type two. He doesn't 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: actually listen into Taylor Swift. I'll just put it that way. Um, 16 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: he you know, has other musical preferences. So I just 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: thought it was interesting, like, Okay, what is to like 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: about this girl? Because I have never listened to Taylor 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: Swift's music in any sort of regular, devoted way, and 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: so I just had this impression of her as like, uh, 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: you know pop princess or a little country princess who's 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: more celebrity than musician, because you know, she's in all 23 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: the magazines, on all the blogs. You know, everybody's tracking 24 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: her whole dating life and everything like that. And I 25 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: just sort of had this stereotype of of like, well, 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: how how could she be a serious businesswoman or serious 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: musician or artist of any kind. But the more that 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: I started talking to my boyfriend about it, especially in 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: the wake of her decision to yank all of her 30 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: stuff off of Spotify, Uh, the more I came to realize, like, 31 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: there's definitely something there to talk about because she kind 32 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: of I don't know if she's breaking any molds in 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: the music industry, but she's certainly making her own. And 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: also considering the fact that she's still so young. She's 35 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: twenty five and has put out now five studio albums, 36 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: so she's been doing this for a long time and 37 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: she's so clearly good at it, and I think it's 38 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: also worth talking about, not just in the sense of 39 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: this young music mogul, but also to her cultural influence, 40 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: particularly to her younger fans, because she has made lots 41 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: of headlines regarding her personal stance on feminism and the 42 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: whole celebrity feminism thing can be tiresome and sometimes I 43 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: think distract us away from more arguably more important things 44 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: to talk about. But as we'll get into, I mean, 45 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: it's the same kind of thing when we were talking 46 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: about Beyonce. It you can't just did to guard or 47 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: marginalized the impact of her influence on so many girls, 48 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: in particular, well the Swifties in particular, Swifties are die 49 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: hard fans, So why don't we kick off with better 50 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: understanding who Taylor Swift is outside of tabloid headlines and 51 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: music videos. Yeah, she definitely has an interesting backstory. And 52 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: I just say interesting because she her family definitely had 53 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: the resources to help her get into the music industry 54 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: to the degree that she is now. Uh So, she 55 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen eighty nine, and I say that 56 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 1: because her latest album is called nineteen eighty nine in Pennsylvania, 57 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: and it's reported everywhere that she grew up on a 58 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: Christmas tree farm. But her family they're not farmers. Her father, 59 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: who is a stockbroker, actually purchased the farm from one 60 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: of his clients. Um, but yeah, both of her parents 61 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: work in finance and are super involved in supportive of 62 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: her career, and back in the day, they actually agreed 63 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: to move to Nashville from Pennsylvania so that Taylor could 64 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: pursue her music career and now they're part owners of 65 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: her label. Yeah, so it definitely isn't one of those 66 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: like up from the via your own bootstraps kinds of stories. 67 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: But I don't think that that should mitigate her talent 68 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: because she was scouted early and was one of the youngest, 69 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: if not the youngest, person to get a songwriting development 70 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: deal when she was still in her teens with a 71 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: big label, the specific one I'm forgetting at the moment um. 72 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: So clearly she was very good at what she did 73 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: and had a knack early on. And she talked about 74 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: how in middle school especially, she was super awkward, but 75 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: she really found a lot of refuge in songwriting and 76 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: it was like the thing that she looked forward to 77 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: every day. Well, right, and the whole thing about her 78 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: awkwardness in middle school, I mean, who's not awkward in 79 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 1: middle school, to be honest, But she talked about how 80 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: back home in Pennsylvania it was sort of a mean 81 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: girls situation and that everybody was like, Oh, you think 82 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: you're hot stuff because you sing the national anthem at 83 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: a game or something. Whereas when she moved to Nashville, 84 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, she's sort of in that culture 85 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: where it's probably not too hard to encounter either singers 86 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: or the children of singers, and so people that are 87 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: new school were like, oh, you're staying at school. Do 88 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: you want to be in the talent show? Yeah? And 89 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: I think it's too she like Parlay's that awkward phase 90 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: obviously into her music videos in particular, and probably it's 91 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: part of her appeal to younger girls going through that 92 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: awkward phase too. But I don't want to get ahead 93 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: of myself because next up we just need to highlight 94 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: just how mind blowing lye successful she's been. I mean, 95 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned that your boyfriend appreciates her role in the 96 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: music industry, because I mean, it's clear that she has 97 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: been instrumental in keeping it alive in a lot of ways. Yeah, 98 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: she basically saved it back in twenty way back in 99 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: a couple of days ago. Um So, her latest album, 100 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 1: which is nine, like we said, was really its signaled 101 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: a major departure from her past as being this this 102 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: Country darling Um. I mean, she'd always been pretty poppy, uh, 103 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: but this was her concerted effort to go pop. And 104 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: the album was the first to go platinum in It's 105 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: sold nearly one point three million copies in its first 106 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: week of US release, making up of all US album 107 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: sales at the time it's it was the most successful 108 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: record debut since Eminem's two thousand two release of The 109 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: eminem Show. So thank god Taylor Swift came along and 110 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: uh showed up eminem Um. But and also just to 111 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: highlight how much fans were anticipating this album, because of 112 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: course there was a whole pr lead up to it too, 113 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: stoke fans desires to get the first pop album by 114 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift in Canada on iTunes. By accident there was. 115 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: It was something like eight seconds of static, not actual 116 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: music that was released and it's still hit number one, 117 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: just because they were like, this is a Taylor Swift 118 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: something or other, Taylor Swift static, and so they bought 119 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: it and oops, it's just static, but it's still raced 120 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: up the charts. All right. If you can even sell static, yeah, yeah, 121 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: that's awesome. And if we look more at why and 122 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: how Taylor Swift essentially blew up the music industry in 123 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: According to Nielsen, more than half of the sales of 124 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: nine nine were physical copies versus digital. And this is 125 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: according to the Seattle Times. And that's that's a big 126 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: deal because how many people yourself included, Like, how many 127 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: people do you know buying tons of albums anymore? People? 128 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: A lot of it is just either a digital download 129 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: that's legit because you're buying it off of something like iTunes, 130 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: or you're streaming it on Spotify, or maybe you're just 131 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: playing steeling it off of you know, some websites somewhere. Well, 132 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: and especially for younger fans, like I would be quicker 133 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: to buy a CD for my dad than for my niece, 134 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: So you would be like, what is this? How do 135 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: I do that shiny thing? You're giving me? A Kristen right? Well, 136 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: so if we look at the numbers. According to the 137 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: Recording Industry Association of America, they reported that the sales 138 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: of CDs for the first half ofeen were down nineteen 139 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: percent from the year before to fifty six million. If 140 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: you compare that to two thousand two, total album sales 141 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: in the US were at six hundred and eighty one million, 142 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll definitely get into more of the whole 143 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: issue around hard copy versus digital downloads as it applies 144 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: to Taylor Swift specifically in just a minute. Yeah, in 145 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: nine performed so well, obviously. Uh. It debuted at number 146 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: one on the Billboard two hundred, making t Swizzle the 147 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: first and only act to have three albums some more 148 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: than one million copies in a week. Not bad, not 149 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: bad for certainly not And I mean this is definitely 150 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: building off of previous success because before that, before came out, 151 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: she was the only female artist and the fourth artist 152 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: ever to twice have an album sell a million copies 153 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: in its first week. And that's twelves read and speak 154 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: now and for a few more accolades. She's won seven 155 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: Grammys as of this recording. She's also the youngest person 156 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: to ever win Album of the Year, which she won 157 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine for Fearless, which was notably the 158 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: first album that she wrote solo. And in terms of 159 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 1: overall sales, she sold more than twenty six million albums 160 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: and seventy five million song downloads worldwide. She's a global brand. 161 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: And I remember there was a I think this was 162 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: mentioned in a two thousand and eleven New Yorker profile 163 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: of her how at the time they were her record label, 164 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: Big Machine, was preparing for like they were thinking the 165 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: next step would be Australia because she had done really 166 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: well in Asian They're like, okay, well, we've got the 167 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: Asian market. Next up is Australia, which was apparently a 168 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: big deal. And of course she nailed it. And she 169 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: was the first female artist since Madonna to successfully tour 170 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: and sell out stadiums there, yeah and back back, I 171 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: think I was yeah back in tent and that New 172 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: Yorker piece. They cited Forbes as ranking her as the 173 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: year's seventh biggest earning celebrity, with an annual income of 174 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, just a paltry forty five million dollars, which 175 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: includes not only her music stuff, but also all of 176 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: her product endorsements. And what is so and I say 177 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: this genuinely, so please don't get mad at me, but 178 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: what is so adorable about Taylor Swift's product endorsements is 179 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: that she's very clear about how like, she will not 180 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: endorse something if she herself does not like it and 181 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: or grew up wanting to be in an advert like 182 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: cover girl who sponsored her I think most recent tour, 183 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: um she is a cover girl and told the interviewerre like, no, 184 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: no, no no, I've always been excited about this, like this 185 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: is awesome. And so that is part of the t 186 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: Swift brand, about being not only awkward and a little 187 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: gawky or whatever, but being adorably genuine. Yeah. And whether 188 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: or not that is partially artifice to me, it doesn't 189 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: really matter, because it's all part of how savvy of 190 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: a businesswoman she is at this point. I mean the 191 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: fact that this five ten model lesque five year old 192 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: can still be described adoring. Lee is a little bit 193 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: awkward and gawky, which is like nod, she have seen her. 194 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: She's awkward at all. She's just done such a such 195 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: an incredible job building and maintaining her brand in the 196 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: same one in a similar vein as Beyonce. Yeah, yeah exactly, 197 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: or a similar way as as Sminty. Yes. Yes, we 198 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: do like to think of ourselves as the Taylor Swift 199 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: of the podcast world. Perfect um. But yeah. So the 200 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: whole thing about her recent success with nineteen eighty nine 201 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: UM is that it has been super reaffirming for her. 202 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: This is coming from an article in Time magazine which 203 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: I think was titled The Power of Taylor swift Um. 204 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: She was talking about how every single element of the 205 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: album was called into question and she had to say, no, 206 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: this is how we're doing it. I mean, I love 207 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: that coming from not only a woman, but a very 208 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: young woman putting her foot down to all of these 209 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: record label execs. And she says, the fact that we 210 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: came out and did the kind of numbers we did 211 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: in the first week, you have no idea how relieved 212 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: I was, because it was all on me if this 213 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: didn't work. And to give you an idea of the 214 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: things that she was pushing back against, I mean, exacts 215 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: were concerned about the title, do you really want to 216 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: call it nineteen eighty nine? The cover image? Do you 217 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: really want to feature a picture of yourself when it's 218 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: not your full face, it's just like half of you. 219 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 1: And she definitely had to fight back against a lot 220 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: of people her label head in particular regarding her departure 221 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: from country music. They were like, all right, well, if 222 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna go pop, can you at least get three 223 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: country songs on the record, And she's like, no, this 224 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: is my this is my thing. I'm doing this well. 225 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: And notable too that not only did she decided to 226 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: do this as a full on pop record, but she 227 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: also moved out of Nashville. I mean, she still has 228 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: her place in Nashville, but she also bought an apartment 229 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: in New York City. Um, but one thing that jumped 230 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: out to me in the Time magazine interview was her 231 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: bristling a little bit when the interviewer brought up Spotify 232 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: and her decision and Big Machines decision to pull all 233 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: of her music from the streaming service, because she was 234 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: basically like, why are you asking me about this? I 235 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: wrote an op ed in the Wall Street Journal, and 236 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: this isn't news anymore. This is my decision. How Ever, 237 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: her decision to pull her music from Spotify, it's certainly 238 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: still having ripple effects in terms of the music industry, 239 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: which obviously is evolving more and more towards digital right. 240 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: And so for perspective, she's honestly just one of a 241 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: few musicians who have taken their music off of Spotify 242 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: and streaming services like that. But you know, we talked 243 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: a little bit about album sales in the music industry earlier, 244 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: but let's give you a little more perspective around this issue. 245 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: So as sales of physical, actual concrete hard copy albums 246 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: and digital downloads decline, revenue from streaming services like Pandora, 247 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: like Spotify rose twenty in the first half of this 248 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: is great, right, well, except for the fact that artists 249 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: end up getting paid just a fraction of a penny 250 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: each time a song is streamed. Granted, if you're somebody 251 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: incredible like a Taylor Swift, like a Beyonce, You're still 252 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: going to make a ton of money. It's the little 253 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: guys who really suffer. So for a little more Taylor 254 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: Swift specific perspective, the Seattle Times talked to industry analyst 255 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: Alice Enders, who said that for a digital download, not 256 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: streaming on Spotify, but like literally purchasing it from iTunes 257 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: for digital digital download, Taylor will probably take home fift 258 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: of retail that's fifty or sixty cents, which is a 259 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: lot compared to Spotify's fraction of a penny. And there 260 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: was some news recently giving some more detail about the 261 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: whole Spotify deal, and the CEO of Spotify was none 262 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: to please. Not only that Taylor Swift withdrew her music 263 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: from his service, but that she's been so public about 264 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: it as to write that. Wall Street Journal op ed 265 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: and he was basically saying that, hey, Taylor was on 266 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: track to make more than six million dollars this year, 267 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: which was countered by the head of Swift label, Scott Barchetta, 268 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: who says, well, it's actually more like five hundred thousand, 269 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: which is kind of a big deal. But so when 270 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: you look at album sales in general, sales are down 271 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: so much that before Taylor Swift's nine Came Along was 272 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: set to be the first year in decades, decades when 273 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: no album was going to be certified platinum. And so 274 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: the fact that she's been able to do this after 275 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: having taken her stuff off streaming, I think is a 276 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: pretty incredible achievement, and I think it says a lot 277 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: about her fans too, Yeah, I mean, and the motivation 278 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: for pulling this stuff off Spotify obviously they're economic reasons, 279 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: but her whole thing too was this valid argument that 280 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: my music has value, It should have inherent value, and 281 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable putting it out there and sort of 282 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: devaluing it by just going ahead and agreeing to leave 283 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: it on Spotify. And so she talked all about this 284 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: in the op ed she wrote in July for The 285 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, which of course went viral because everyone's like, 286 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Taylor Swift was the Wall Street Journal, 287 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: How kookie um. But she talked about how, quote, the 288 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: music industry is not dying, it's just coming alive. And 289 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: it was a very hyper optimistic portrayal of the music industry, 290 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: basically saying like art should be respected and valued and 291 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: if you you know, it's all about you have to 292 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: understand how to wield social media and cultivate your fan following. 293 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: At the same time, like we can't just give our 294 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: music away for free. And there great arguments sort of 295 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: in a vacuum that she makes, But at the same time, 296 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: it's an easy argument for Taylor Swift to make. You know, 297 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: it's a very sunny assessment of things are just coming alive. 298 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: Of course, you're you're twenty five, and you are like 299 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: selling as many records as the Beatles did. This is crazy. 300 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: But one thing the Beatles did not do was directly 301 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: communicate with their legions of beatlemaniac fans, and Taylor definitely 302 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: makes it a point to and not only talk about 303 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: how she's on social media, but to really genuinely be 304 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: you there and tweet back to her fans, talk to 305 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: them on tumbler, laugh at herself when people post memes 306 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: about her and things like that, and she's always done it. 307 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: In one interview, she talked about how back in two 308 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: thousand five, she told the folks at her record label 309 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: that she was commuting communicating with fans on my Space 310 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: and it just blew their minds, and partially because she 311 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: had the advantage of growing up on the internet. Yeah, 312 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, she's a little bit younger than we did, 313 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: so she I mean, obviously we were both on my Space, 314 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: but for her, you know, my Space was an even 315 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: more integral part of her life, and she was savvy. 316 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: It's spotting the business opportunity of that. I mean, she 317 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: even talked about this in the Wall Street Journal about 318 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: how today you almost develop your online following and then 319 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: the product will follow that your online following has as much, 320 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: if not more currency than your actual art, as she 321 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: refers to her music. Yeah, and it's it's you know there. 322 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: There is a question about a lot of celebrities about 323 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: whether they are how invested they are in connecting with 324 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,719 Speaker 1: their fans and is it really them behind the curtain? 325 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: And I think Taylor has really set herself apart by 326 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: making it clear that, yeah, this is me, and I 327 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: think it's really cool that you send me pictures and 328 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and and and Vulture wrote about this too, 329 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: as far as her everything from her Internet presence to 330 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: her liner notes and her albums are a way to 331 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: reach out to her fans, and they said that it's 332 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: all one very savvy project to encourage devotion and relatability. 333 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: And another part of that is the fact that on 334 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: all of our social media she is posting some really 335 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: incredible pictures of some really incredible real life friends too. Yeah, 336 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: it's well known that she has just a bevy of attractive, 337 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: super famous gal pals. For lack of a better word, 338 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: I hate that I just said gal pals in the podcast, 339 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: so apologies to the listeners. But you know, people like 340 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: model Carly Class, Lena Dunham, who famously introduced her by 341 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: example to feminism and also feminists musician Lord, who initially 342 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: said some not so nice things about Taylor Swift in 343 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: the media, sort of labeling her as, you know, sort 344 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: of a vapid boy, crazy pop princess who has since 345 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: come around and now they're friends, and they you know, 346 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: always tweet to each other and take selfies together and 347 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: you know, make their instagrams just so jealousy provoking. Um. 348 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: But there was this great quote about this in Vulture, saying, quote, 349 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: performative female friendship is as old as a high school yearbook, 350 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: and celebrities have always been friends with with each other, 351 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: but social media learns an easy way to perform that 352 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: practical BFF requirement, the shout out. And it's just interesting 353 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: to see how she in particular, far beyond like a 354 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: lot of other celebrities at her level have used social 355 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: media for that. Yeah, because I don't doubt that she 356 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: has friends with these women, and that regardless of you know, 357 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: whether she's famous, she would be posting pictures of herself 358 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: and her friends. It just so happens that she's incredibly famous, 359 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: her friends are incredibly famous, They're very photogenic, and taking 360 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: these pictures, posting these pictures and things like that allows 361 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: people access into her life in a way that they 362 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: don't get if they're just reading tabloids, are just reading 363 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: gossip blogs. That's more of like a hey, I'm posting 364 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: pictures of my friends, and it's almost like you're my friends. 365 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: To looking at these pictures, well at least gives them 366 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: the sense that they're on the inside. And that's definitely 367 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: part of crafting a very specific image. And we're going 368 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: to talk more about that image when we come right 369 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: back from a quick break and now back to the show. 370 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: So in the first half of the podcast, we really 371 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: talked about Taylor Swift the businesswoman, kind of to establish 372 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: that she's a lot more than just a pop princess, 373 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: as a lot of people just think that she is. No, 374 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: she has a lot of ownership over her career and 375 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: over her image, and I want to talk a lot 376 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: about her image because has I think this This also 377 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: gets at why we wanted to talk about her on 378 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: the podcast, because yes, clearly an example of a savvy, smart, 379 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: successful young woman in the music business, but it's her 380 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: image that gets people talking so much, right exactly, And 381 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: so when she was interviewed by Time magazine, she talked 382 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: a lot about sort of the motivation behind why she 383 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: does things. She's often called the anti Lohan because she's 384 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: not one of those young child stars who has either 385 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: made the turn into like sexy music like Britney Spears. 386 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: And I only say that because I know that sounds ridiculous. 387 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: But she did have a quote about like, I don't 388 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: feel like I need to go dark like Britney Spears 389 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: did to prove that now I'm a grown up um. 390 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: She definitely maintains this image of being the prim statuesque 391 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: young woman who wears a lot of anthropology and other 392 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: vintage clothes and things like that, but she's got a 393 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: goofy side that she definitely has a goofy side, and 394 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: so she was telling Time magazine that she would rather 395 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: live her life based on what her grandkids will say 396 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: one day, rather than necessarily worrying about what the media 397 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: says about her or what social critics say about her. 398 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 1: She says, I think more about the people in my 399 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: life that would be disappointed, my mom, my dad, my 400 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: kids if I ever have them. And she says, and 401 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: that's why it's not as much pressure as thinking about 402 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: the millions of little minds that you must be shaping. 403 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: Because everybody also calls Taylor Swift a role model, because 404 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: she isn't the one being photographed out at the club, 405 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: falling out of a limo, being wasted all that stuff 406 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: and Lindsey so sad for Lindsay Lowen, Lindsay Lohan and Brittany. Um. 407 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: But again, I mean, you know, she she accepts that 408 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: role model mantle that people put on her, as opposed 409 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: to I feel like a lot of celebrities out there 410 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: who when people shake their finger at them and say, 411 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be acting like this because you're a role 412 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: model to young girls. A lot of young women who 413 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: are celebrities stay, well, I don't want it, I never 414 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: wanted it. I'm just living my life. And well, that's true. 415 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: Everyone should have a right to live their own life 416 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: and get drunk in a limo if they want. I mean, 417 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: who hasn't wanted to get drunk in a limo? Um. 418 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: There is something very interesting about this, the fact that 419 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift is so super conscious of being a role model, 420 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: wanting to be a role model, and definitely making an 421 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 1: effort to play the part. Well, because it's an interesting 422 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: dichotomy too, because clearly a lot of what fuels her 423 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: music and her fandom is her dating life, even though 424 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: right now she's kind of sworn off guys, hence all 425 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: the selfies with all of her lady BFFs. But you know, 426 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: there's that whole angle that leaves fans, you know, digging 427 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: through her liner notes trying to find clues as to 428 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: whether that is about John Mayer or whether that is 429 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: about Harry Styles, who she's actually singing about. But at 430 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: the same time, she's very conscious, like outwardly of like 431 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: she has no interest in being overtly sexy, right, And 432 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: if you watch her videos, it's so clear. I mean, 433 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: she's gorgeous, and she's very well dressed, and she has 434 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: I think I've already described her once in this podcast 435 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: a statuesque, and she is, but it's not. I mean, 436 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: it just stands so much in contrast, for instance, to 437 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: Katie Perry or Nicki Minaj, although I feel like Nicki 438 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: Minaj and Taylor Swift that just gets into apples and oranges, 439 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: And I mean, the whole crafting of the image using 440 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: social media. Vanity Fair called it actually a rather brilliant 441 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: marketing move. They say that it doesn't mean it was conscious. 442 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: She is, after all, the product of this Internet era, 443 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: but it is a very conscious decision to craft her 444 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: own image in whatever way she can, and social media 445 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: is a big part of that. I mean, you know, 446 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: that's why people warn you, like, don't put anything on 447 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: the internet you don't want people to see, because it's 448 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: all part of what you project to the outside world. 449 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: And Taylor is super conscious of that. Yeah, there was 450 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: I believe it was in a Rolling Stone uh profile 451 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: of her which talked about her paranoia. She was just 452 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: like I whenever she goes into a dressing room for 453 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: the first time she has I'm sure someone else check 454 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: for cameras because you know, it's something like things that 455 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: we would take for granted that just absolutely cannot happen, 456 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: right Well, I mean also the whole thing about like 457 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: she also checks for Mike's She's worried about people being 458 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: bugged and wired and and taping any sort of performance 459 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: or or video shoot or anything like that. And she 460 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: even had one interviewer listened to a preview of her 461 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: album on earbuds, like she wouldn't play it for her 462 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: out in the open. Yeah, but speaking of listening to 463 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: a new song, being a songwriter is also front and 464 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: center as part of that image. For instance, in two 465 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: thousand and ten, it was a huge deal that she 466 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: wrote all the songs to her album Speak Now by herself. 467 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: I mean, people were saying this is unheard of for 468 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: an artist to do that, and they're also skeptics who 469 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: say she's not writing this by herself, there's no way, 470 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: But I mean, she stands by that, and a lot 471 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: of people who she writes with stand by it as well, 472 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: Like we might. I might come in and sort of bounce, 473 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: she might bounce ideas off of me, But she's writing 474 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: everything's or her songs. Yeah. Well, and and she's a 475 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: songwriter to the point where in October uh Nashville, the 476 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: Nashville Songwriters Association International honored her for a record sixth 477 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: time as Songwriter Artist of the Year, surpassing veterans like 478 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: Vince Gill and Alan Jackson. And though now though that 479 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: she's made this pop transformation, she is working with more 480 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: pop leaning songwriting partners like the very big deal Max Martin. 481 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: He works with a ton of artists. But Liz Rose, 482 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: who's also a big deal songwriter in Nashville and is 483 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: a former collaborator with Swift, says basically what Kristen just said, 484 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: that it's it's not the Taylor's not writing just because 485 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: she's collaborating with people, which, by the way, I mean 486 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: You'd be hard pressed to find any musician who doesn't 487 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: collaborate in some way with someone on songwriting or arrangement. 488 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, Liz Rose said that my strength with Taylor 489 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: isn't writing lyrics. It's whittling things down and pulling out 490 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 1: the important pieces. She says, the writers that did try 491 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: to mess with her lyrics, she didn't write with them 492 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: a second time. Yeah, I wouldn't want to cross Taylor's swift. 493 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: Girl knows what she wants. Yeah, And her attitude toward 494 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: writing song lyrics is I mean, it's it's really basic 495 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: in a way. She just she told Time Magazine, for instance, 496 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: I've been able to write songs and feel better. They 497 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: clarify and simplify the emotions that you're feeling. And it's 498 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: the that emotive quality to her songs and the fact 499 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: that a lot of the subject matter does deal in dating, 500 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: in romance and crushes and all of that that her 501 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: critics try to write her off. But Tommy Givenson, who 502 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: is the brainchild genius behind Rookie Magazine and other incredible things, 503 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: wrote about this in Believer Magazine, basically saying no, no, no, no, 504 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: that is exactly why she's so good. She said essentially 505 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: that she has a gift for taking what might seem 506 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: like a mundane kind of thing, like having a crush 507 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: on a boy, and actually pulling out and writing those 508 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: emotions to make it sound as big as it felt. 509 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: Even though we might want to disregard those kinds of instances, 510 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: it's still, I mean, it's still a gift to be 511 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 1: able to capture that and clearly capture it in a 512 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: way that resonates with so many younger girls in particular. Yeah, 513 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: And I mean that's why I like what she said 514 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: to Vanity Fair. And and I think this is part 515 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: of seeing her coming of age. Not to sound like 516 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: I'm this crotchety old woman who's like, look at this 517 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: young girl coming of age. But that's what I like 518 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: so much about Taylor Swift's quote in Vanity Fair about 519 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: songwriting and writing lyrics and having people judge you so 520 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: harshly for being female and writing about your emotions. She 521 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: says that for people who portray women like her as 522 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: clingy or insane or desperate because of the way she 523 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: writes about relationships and love and things like that, she said, 524 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: I think that's taking something that potentially should be celebrated 525 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: a woman writing about her feelings in a confessional way 526 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: and turning it and twisting it into something that is 527 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: frankly a little sexist. And in the same vein, she 528 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: also calls out people who criticize her and claim that 529 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: she doesn't write all of her songs, or that she 530 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: has a ghost writer, or she has a whole team 531 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: of people pulling the strings behind her. She actually said, 532 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: we all know that this is a feminist issue, and 533 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: of course, when I read that is the first sense 534 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: of that paragraph, I was like, what do we tailor 535 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: what do you mean? Well, don't worry if she continued. 536 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: She talked about how nobody questions her male singer songwriter 537 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: friends about whether they write everything, and she said, you know, 538 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: in the beginning, I thought we were all on the 539 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: same playing field, and then it became pretty obvious to 540 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: me that when you have people sort of questioning the 541 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: validity of a female songwriter and making it seem like 542 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: it's somehow unacceptable to write songs about your real emotions, 543 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: that it somehow makes you irrational and over emotional. Seeing 544 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: that over the years changed my view. And she talks 545 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: about how she takes up the cause for Nicki Minaj 546 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: and Iggy Azalea, saying that why do they have to 547 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: prove that they write their own lyrics when men in 548 00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: the same type of genre don't necessarily have to justify that. Yeah, 549 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: and along similar lines in terms of people wanting to 550 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,959 Speaker 1: dismiss her music as oh, well, it's just you know, 551 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: dribble about boys and heartache, she's talking to the guardians saying, 552 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: I really resent the idea that if a woman writes 553 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: about her feelings, she has too many feelings. And I 554 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: really resent the be careful buddy, she's going to write 555 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: a song about you angle because it trivializes what I do, 556 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: which kind of echoes her Spotify decision. She said, quote 557 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: it makes it seem like creating art is something you 558 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: do as a cheap weapon rather than an artistic process. 559 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: And yes it does. Her artistic process often involve writing 560 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: highly autobiographical songs about either past crushes or relationships, or 561 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: just people who have done her wrong. Yes, but she 562 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: clearly does it very well and she's been very successful 563 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: at it. Is there room for critiquing some of her lyrics, 564 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: particularly in earlier albums, Yes, there have been times when 565 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: I gonna botch the actual lyric. But there have been 566 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: have there been times when she has perhaps thrown shade 567 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: at characters in her songs, whether they are real or fictional, 568 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: for perhaps having pre marital sex, or maybe making riskier 569 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: and quotes decisions than her character in the song would make. Yeah, 570 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: she has, But it seems like she has evolved from 571 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: that in the same way that her public stance on 572 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: feminism has evolved to the point that, you know, like 573 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: she was talking to Time, we all know this is 574 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: a feminist issue. Being that direct about it. Yeah, I 575 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: mean she admits she wasn't so sure about the feminism 576 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: thing at first, which everybody remembers because that is also 577 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: why when my boyfriend was like, hey, you know, Taylor 578 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: Swift is pretty savvy, I was like, yeah, whatever. She 579 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: won't even admit to being feminist, doesn't even know what 580 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: feminism is, she doesn't define it correctly, which I mean 581 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: full disclosure. I posted her quote that launched a thousand 582 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: blogs about feminism on the Stuff I've Never Told You 583 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,719 Speaker 1: facebook page with probably snarky comment of oh, here we 584 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: go again, because she said back in the day and 585 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: back in the day. By the way, folks, is only 586 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: like three years, but still a lifetime for this woman's 587 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: career because so much has happened. She said, quote, I 588 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: don't really think about things as guys versus girls. I 589 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: never have. I was raised by parents who brought me 590 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: up to think if you work as hard as guys, 591 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: you can go far in life. And that was in 592 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: response to someone asking whether she was a feminist and 593 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: everybody was like, no, but you are, and now, of course, largely, 594 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: she said due to Lena Dunham's influence. She's like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, 595 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: I totally am a feminist. I just didn't get it. Yeah, 596 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: she says that kind of watching the way that Lena 597 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: Dunham operates and lives her life made her realize that 598 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: she's been taking a feminist stance this whole time without 599 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: actually saying so. And I mean that's what was so 600 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: fascinating about that slightly dated now New Yorker piece that 601 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: followed her around, because this writer is watching her operate 602 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: like a boss, I mean, telling people exactly what she 603 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: wants and how she wants it, but going about it 604 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: in a very very like adorable Taylor Swift fashion, even 605 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 1: to the point where she talks about how she was 606 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: so disillusioned by the typical format of the artist fan 607 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: meet and greet of like, Okay, you've seen the show, 608 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: and now you all stand in line and you get 609 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: a v I P bracelet because you paid a million 610 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: dollars to see me, and you come backstage and we 611 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: take pictures and you go home. Instead, she had her 612 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: mom and some of the other members of her team 613 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: help pick out individual members of the audience who looked 614 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: like these are the girls who were absolutely going crazy 615 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: for Taylor Swift and love her. We're gonna hand pick 616 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: them to come backstage. And then they like set up 617 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: in this like this super decorated tent and she hangs 618 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: out and she looks at their posters, and it's more 619 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: just like with the rest of the Taylor Swift brand 620 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: image thing, it's very much more like a hey, we're buddies, 621 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: we're hanging out, Welcome to my life, when really, you know, 622 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: they're not in her life. They're in a tent backstage, 623 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: hanging out on some really crushy pillows. But she has 624 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: definitely crafted this whole process in such a way that 625 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: allows these young girls to feel like I can really 626 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: connect with her. She writes about boys. I like boys. 627 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: I feel sad too sometimes and they really feel like 628 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: because she might tweet back at them, or she might 629 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: retweet a picture of them holding up the polaroids that 630 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: came with the hard copy of that they have a 631 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: connection to this superstar. Well, what do we take away 632 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: though from the superstar? Because you could also, and I'm 633 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: gonna play like crotchety feminists in the corner for a 634 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: minute and say, but you could argue that she is 635 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: ultimately promoting heteronormative culture. And she's, you know, traditionally like 636 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 1: beautiful girl. She's quite thin. Girls want to look like her. 637 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: Perhaps they judge their body is because of her. So 638 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: are we really should we really? Just you know, do 639 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: we love this so much? Whereas someone like Lord is 640 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,439 Speaker 1: a bit more subversive. Yes, she's still white, but she 641 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: is a little bit darker and a little boy. I mean, 642 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: she's just a little more goth in general. But you 643 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: know what I mean, So what do we how do 644 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: we reconcile that kind of stuff? I mean, it's the 645 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: same kind of question that we circled around too at 646 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: the end of our episode on Beyonce of Well, how 647 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: do we reconcile like her sexy, the sexiness of her image, 648 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: and the her personal feminist believes well, I think I 649 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: think Taylor Swift and Beyonce both have a certain power, 650 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: and I mean, I obviously think that they exercise that 651 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: power differently, and they obviously look different. Um, but I 652 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: think what we're seeing with both of these pop stars 653 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: is that they are two young women who have really 654 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: really taken control of their careers and their image, and 655 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: who who are speaking up for their art and sometimes 656 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: for other women. And so if you can get uh, 657 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: an eleven year old girl to hear that message, I 658 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: think that's great. Do we need more diversity in our 659 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: feminist spokespeople, Absolutely, I would never turn that down. However, 660 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: working within the framework that we have, I think it's 661 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: pretty neat that you have someone like a Beyonce, or 662 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: like a Taylor Swift in this case, speaking up for 663 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: taking charge of your career, taking charge of your life, 664 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: being very vocal about the fact that hey, all these 665 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: naysayers who were like, don't do this way, you know, 666 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: they ended up being wrong and I ended up being right. 667 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: I think that's a great message for anyone to hear. 668 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: And the fact that we sort of got to watch 669 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: her grow up. We literally got to watch her grow up. 670 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: But the fact that we got to watch her sort 671 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: of quote unquote come of age into the idea of 672 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: feminism is actually really neat because I think that, you know, 673 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: to the Swift herself talked about how scary the idea 674 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: and the word feminism was to her as a younger woman, 675 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: and I think that there are a lot of plenty 676 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: of people out there, not just young girls, who can 677 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: identify with that idea that feminism is scary and it's 678 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: dirty and we don't like it and it means that 679 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: you hate men or you hate whatever. Um. They define 680 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: it in a negative way instead of a positive way. 681 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: And so the fact that we can watch her go 682 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: through this and come to this realization means that maybe, 683 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: just maybe some of her fans will come along on 684 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: that same train with her. I completely agree. And I 685 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: also think too that where we are pop culturally is 686 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: as much reflective in her fans as it is in 687 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: her naysayers, because this is something that Tommy Givinson was 688 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: talking to Flavor Wire about. She was the question was, 689 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: why do you think some people dislike Swift so much? 690 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: Because it's clear why so many girls in particular love her. 691 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: That's easy to understand. But Gevinson said, some of it 692 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: is just a standard, inevitable famous pop star part she 693 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: has an enviable life, But I think more of it 694 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: comes from people who really hate that it could be 695 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: more complicated than that, that they can't just dismiss it 696 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: as stupid teeny bopper music. Because critics mak her seriously, 697 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: and she's proven herself to be so much more than 698 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: a passing fat that's when they try to invalidate the 699 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: parts of her which are impressive or even somewhat subversive. 700 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: Her songs and feelings are based on lies because she's 701 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: a crazy, manipulative serial data. The unique amount of control 702 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: she has over her brand is exploitative of her loyal fans. 703 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: And she goes on to say, I've seen articles that 704 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: you Swift as the focal point for discussions on everything 705 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: from classism to gender. Can you think of another current 706 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: pop star that stirs up so much debate and discussion, 707 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: and I mean probably Beyonce. Well, and she mentions Beyonce. 708 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: She was like, yeah, there's Beyonce, but really, you know, 709 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: Swift and Beyonce are probably tied for first in that regard, 710 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: and this is going to lead us into our next episode, 711 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: in which we're going to shift our focus more to 712 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: the swiftiest end of things and talk about how probably 713 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: a lot of and it's not gonna be focused on 714 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, but probably a lot of her criticism stems 715 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: from her fan base and the fact that it is 716 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: teenage girls, tween age and teenage girls who adore her 717 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: the most, and a lot of times. If that's the case, 718 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: you are dismissed. So with that, shall we ask for 719 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: people's thoughts totally? What do you think about Taylor Swift. 720 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are Tea Swizzle fans and t 721 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: Swizzle haters listening, so we want to hear your thoughts. 722 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: Let us know what you think about her and if 723 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: she is important, particularly in terms of her influence on 724 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: younger girls, and do you think that that's a good 725 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: thing or a bad thing. Mom's staffth House stuffworks dot 726 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 1: Com is our email address. You can also tweet us 727 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff Podcast. We'd love to hear your thoughts, 728 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of letters to share with 729 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: you when we come right back from a quick break 730 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:14,400 Speaker 1: and now back to the show. Well, speaking of Taylor Swift, 731 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: we heard from a lot of women in music in 732 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: response to our episode a little while back on women 733 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: in indie rock, and Emma wrote to say, I really 734 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: loved your interview with Sarah Martin from Belle and Sebastian. 735 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: I've loved Belle and Sebastian for years and was really 736 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: excited to hear Sarah talked about being a woman in indie. 737 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: I just wanted to share my comparatively limited experience. I'm 738 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: sixteen and for the past year have been in a 739 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 1: fairly serious giggling band under the name of Spastic Fits 740 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: Love the name Emma. We recently recorded our first EP. Counterintuitively, 741 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: I found that being a woman in a male dominated 742 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: field of rock music has actually been an advantage. The 743 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: sheer fact that it seems to be unusual to see 744 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: a girl in a serious band, or in our case too, 745 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: we have a rad female basis as well, which is 746 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,240 Speaker 1: even more uncommon, seems to peak people's interests in garner 747 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: respect for being able to make it in a place 748 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: women usually can't. Just thought i'd share. Thank you so 749 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: much for the wonderful podcast, and thank you Emma and 750 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: good luck with his fastic fits. All right, Well, I've 751 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: got to let her here. From Alicia, she says, I 752 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: can totally relate to the only girl in the band episode, 753 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: as I am indeed the only girl in my band. 754 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: We're called the Wag and we've been together for over 755 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: sixteen years. Here's a part where being the only girl 756 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: comes into it. Whenever we open for a big act, 757 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: we like to take a photo with them, usually the 758 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: press or they're also taking photos of us in the 759 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: national act. Sometimes the newspaper will only print a portion 760 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: of the photo. My bandmates have learned over the years, 761 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: if you want to be in the photo, make sure 762 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 1: you stand next to Alicia, because they will always print 763 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: the portion of the photo that has the girl in it. 764 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: For the first thirteen years and we were playing full 765 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: electric gigs all over the place. The band dynamics were 766 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: such that it was truly a democracy, with each person 767 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: getting an equal vote. Everyone was expected to carry their 768 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 1: own weight and be each other's roadies. Yes, even me, 769 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: the small, skinny girl, and I did it with pride. 770 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: No man was going to carry more than I did. 771 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: Being the only girl in the band can draw attention 772 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: when we're playing a bar with three other bands and 773 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,959 Speaker 1: we're the only band with a girl. It's advantageous because 774 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: for some reason, people just don't expect girls to be 775 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: great rock and roll musicians, so I like to shock them. 776 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,760 Speaker 1: Usually people will ask me, oh, are you the singer, 777 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: to which I reply yes, as are the bassist and 778 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: the guitarist. When one of us is singing lead, the 779 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: other two are singing harmonies and backup. Most bands don't 780 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 1: have either. As well as being one of the singers, 781 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: I'm also the keyboardist and percussionist, and on some songs 782 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: I play guitar or flute. They always assume that I'm 783 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: quote unquote just a singer because I'm female. I then 784 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: have the pleasure of telling them I'm the only one 785 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: in my band with a degree in music. Anyway, We're 786 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 1: not on the same level as Bell and Sebastian, but 787 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: having been doing this for over sixteen years, I can 788 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,319 Speaker 1: completely relate to the episode and thoroughly enjoy it. So 789 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: thank you, Alicia, and good luck with your music, and 790 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: thanks to everybody who's written into us. Mom step at 791 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: house stuffworks dot Com is a email address and for 792 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: links to all of our social media, as well as 793 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,399 Speaker 1: all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including this one 794 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: with all of our sources. In case you want to 795 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: learn more about Taylor's swift, head on over to our 796 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: website It's Stuff Bomb Never Told You dot com for 797 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it 798 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com