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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With

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Speaker 1: tech stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hey kids,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. My name is Chris polettom an

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Speaker 1: editor here and How Stuff Works, and sitting next to

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Speaker 1: me as always is senior writer Jonathan Strickland. Hey there everyone,

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Speaker 1: We were gonna, i don't know, take it down a notch,

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Speaker 1: you do, mill out with a couple of guys from

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Speaker 1: born in Yeah, a couple of guys who you know,

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Speaker 1: they sort of had that typical experience of the growing

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Speaker 1: up during the whole counterculture movement, tried college for a while,

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Speaker 1: decided it wasn't for them. They both are college dropouts,

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Speaker 1: and yet they both managed to have a you know,

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Speaker 1: somewhat significant impact on the tech world. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you use a Microsoft product or an Apple product. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty minor impact. Where talking here about William

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Speaker 1: Billy Gates and uh Stephen Paul Jobs PAULA Yeah that's

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Speaker 1: his name. Yeah, Okay, okay, um, Yeah, both of these guys, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, they've been uh they've been sort of grouped

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Speaker 1: together for a very long time. In fact, there was

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Speaker 1: even a movie starting Noah Wiley and Anthony Michael Hall

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Speaker 1: called Pirates and Silicon Valley made about these two. And

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Speaker 1: you know, really when you look at them together, yes,

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Speaker 1: they were. They were both born in the same year

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Speaker 1: they were they both dropped out of college, and they're

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Speaker 1: both huge people in the tech industry. And they both

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Speaker 1: founded their their own companies in nineteen Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: So both when they were twenty years old, they they

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Speaker 1: founded a company. Dropped out of college to found a company.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty crazy. Yeah, I've just lost them. I've never

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Speaker 1: found them. No, Yeah, I've been very fortunate in finding

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Speaker 1: companies either. So anyway, so we were thinking about starting

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Speaker 1: with Mr Jobs. I was, and, um, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of interesting parallels, but I think the more interesting

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Speaker 1: parts are sort of the places where jobs and gates

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Speaker 1: are are are not alike. Yeah, but you know, I'll

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Speaker 1: start with jobs. Okay, So came from born in California

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Speaker 1: and went to school. You know, it didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be a huge enthusiastic student, I guess you could say, Um,

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Speaker 1: but he did go to some Hewitt Packard electronics lectures

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Speaker 1: that that he really got interested in Um, that's where

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Speaker 1: he met a certain fellow by the name of Stephen Wozniak.

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Speaker 1: The yeah, jobs actually worked at HP for a while.

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Speaker 1: I'm yeah, yeah he did, and they the two of

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Speaker 1: those guys went to uh Atari. Right. Yeah. Between his

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Speaker 1: HP experience and his Stari experience, he did attend one

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Speaker 1: semester of college. Um. Yeah, he went to uh He

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Speaker 1: went to Read College, Oregon, which is famous for its

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Speaker 1: counterculture or semi famous for counterculture. Yes, and we have

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Speaker 1: to mention something. We had a specific request for this podcast. Yes,

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Speaker 1: our our colleague Josh Clark wanted us to point out

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Speaker 1: that one thing that sets jobs apart from Gates is

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Speaker 1: that jobs apparently dropped acid. So this is according to

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Speaker 1: our colleague Josh Clark. You can direct all iro at him. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: from what I understand, he even, um, after he dropped

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Speaker 1: out of college, went to India for a while to

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Speaker 1: explore some spirituality and yes, and so he was really into,

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Speaker 1: you know, learning more about the spiritual side of life. Sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's he's definitely, he's considers himself a Buddhist. He's, Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's very much in touch with that part of his life,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting if you learn a little

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Speaker 1: more about his personality, because it doesn't seem like the

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Speaker 1: typical I don't know, Buddhist sort of approach to life.

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Speaker 1: Say not, but we we're getting ahead of ourselves. We

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Speaker 1: should we should go a little more slowly. I guess. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So so was and Uh and Jobs are over ATITORI

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Speaker 1: and they're designing video games. And after a while, Uh,

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Speaker 1: Jobs gets this crazy idea. He thinks, hey, you know

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Speaker 1: what we should do is build a computer that could

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Speaker 1: be used in the home. Because up to that point,

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Speaker 1: computers were pretty much these enormous devices that really existed

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Speaker 1: only in the realms of the government and large universities. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the people who were interested in ideas like like

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Speaker 1: Jobs and wise were at this point where hobbyists we're

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Speaker 1: talking radio shack boxes of switches and diodes and electronics

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Speaker 1: that you wired together to make a very rudimentary machine.

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Speaker 1: They like the al tear. Yes, so we'll come back

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Speaker 1: to yes. So so Jobs ends up convincing Wozniac that hey,

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Speaker 1: this is a great idea. Let's actually try and do this.

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Speaker 1: Because here's here's the other interesting thing about Jobs is that, um,

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Speaker 1: he's a brilliant man. There's no denying the fact that

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Speaker 1: Jobs is brilliant. I mean, you can't get around it. U.

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Speaker 1: But he is not the engineer. When it comes down

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Speaker 1: to the whole Apple story, that would that would pretty

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Speaker 1: much fall on Wozniak's shoulders, at least in the early years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the two of them were both interested in

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Speaker 1: electronics and engineering, but was is really the I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was the phone freak. He was. He was definitely

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Speaker 1: into the technology and fiddling with electronics end of it.

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Speaker 1: Where I think for for Stephen Jobs, it was more

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Speaker 1: a means to an end. Yeah. Jobs. Jobs recognize the

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Speaker 1: potential of creating a brand new product market uh, and

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Speaker 1: he could saw that it could be very lucrative, and

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Speaker 1: he knew that Wozniak had the ability to to bring

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Speaker 1: this into life as it were, so together, the two

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Speaker 1: of them worked on building some computers, and they got

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Speaker 1: a local UM computer store interested in their products, and

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Speaker 1: the computer store actually ordered uh several It depends on

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Speaker 1: the sources you read. I've read everything from twenty five

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Speaker 1: to fifty five machines UM. And with the money they

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Speaker 1: made from that, that's where they decided to create the company. Apple. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're we're in the realm of the Apple One, which

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Speaker 1: was very much the pictures I've seen of it are

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Speaker 1: pretty rudimentary compared to what you would see on your desktop. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, wooden box and it's got you know, the

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Speaker 1: electronics inside of it, and you'd hook it up to

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Speaker 1: a TV. Um. And of course they chose, being being

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Speaker 1: jobs and wise, they chose a very interesting price point. Yes,

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Speaker 1: six and sixty six dollars. It was the computer of

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Speaker 1: the Beast. Yes, yes, and they actually sold they sold

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Speaker 1: quite a few of these machines. Yeah, this was in

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Speaker 1: so that's a pretty good chunk of change. You know,

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Speaker 1: you think today like a six computer isn't that expensive,

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Speaker 1: but in seventy six dollars it's snows. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a healthy purchase. Yeah yeah. And so um, a year

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Speaker 1: after they introduced the Apple One, they go back, they

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Speaker 1: retool it. They and they introduced the Apple Too, which

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Speaker 1: was a little bit more advanced as you would expect,

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Speaker 1: and uh incorporated some other technologies, including a monitor. And um,

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Speaker 1: this is where my story about computers kind of comes

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Speaker 1: into play, because my first real experience with computers was

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Speaker 1: with an Apple to eat. I see ye see, well

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Speaker 1: lots of uh, I'm willing to bet to lots of

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Speaker 1: the people listening to the podcast at this point had

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Speaker 1: an apple too of some kind, any in our age range, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or at least they know what they are, and they're

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Speaker 1: probably seen one thinking about those giant five and a

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Speaker 1: quarter inch floppy disk drives, right, Yeah, an Oregon trail

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Speaker 1: and lemonade dand trail uh nostalgias so sweet. But this,

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Speaker 1: but the apple too is really where a lot of

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Speaker 1: people first came in contact with computers, and it spurred

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Speaker 1: a lot of people to start pro gramming, start fiddling

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Speaker 1: around with the idea of having computers on desktops for

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Speaker 1: work or you know, for their for their home, for

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Speaker 1: educational purposes. And in fact, that's why we had one.

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Speaker 1: My father is an author, so he purchased the computer

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Speaker 1: as a way so that he could, you know, write

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Speaker 1: books and he should store them on discs. And suddenly,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to worry about a paper

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Speaker 1: copy suddenly being ruined by your five year old sons

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Speaker 1: spilling coffee all over it. Although I should add that

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Speaker 1: his um son, being me, did once turn off his

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Speaker 1: computer before he had saved his chapters and so I

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Speaker 1: am personally responsible for deleting I think it's three chapters

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Speaker 1: of my father's work. Yeah, it was good times so

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Speaker 1: um but yeah, within three years of the Apple two

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Speaker 1: coming out, and it earned almost a hundred forty million dollars.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of money. And uh, and so that's

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Speaker 1: when Jobs and Woznia decided to to go public with

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Speaker 1: the company, So Apples public and UH and the shares

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Speaker 1: where I think at twenty two dollars a share when

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Speaker 1: it first went public and then shot up to twenty

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Speaker 1: nine dollars by the end of the first day. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of people were really excited about

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Speaker 1: this company. And uh. It was right around this time

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Speaker 1: that IBM started to try and make headway into the

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Speaker 1: consumer market. Now IBM had been producing machines for years,

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Speaker 1: but yes, exactly, so these are these machines though were

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Speaker 1: mainly these large machines used in mainframe computers, not like

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Speaker 1: personal computers. UM, but they decided to try and get

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Speaker 1: into the personal computer business. And they were taking a

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Speaker 1: slightly different route than Apple and um using a completely

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Speaker 1: incompatible operating system than Apples at uh. At certain points,

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Speaker 1: so uh, there were a lot of strong decisions that

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Speaker 1: need to be made. Jobs had to decide whether or

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Speaker 1: not to stay the course and continue doing what he

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Speaker 1: was doing, or to try and find a way to

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Speaker 1: merge Apple with IBM, like some sort of operating system

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Speaker 1: that could work on both. And there were some serious

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Speaker 1: attempts at that for many years, it never happened, at

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Speaker 1: least not on any large scale. Right. And and for

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Speaker 1: those of you playing at home who weren't around during

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Speaker 1: this time, we're talking a lot of this stuff is

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Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have mice really for the most

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Speaker 1: part for a lot of these early years. We're talking

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Speaker 1: keyboard commands and the disc operating system that the IBM

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Speaker 1: PC ran on. UM. You know this, it's very clunky

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Speaker 1: for those of you who weren't there to see it. UM.

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Speaker 1: So some of the changes that came up UM were

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Speaker 1: sort of the result of Apple successes because they got

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Speaker 1: so large that they started branching off into different products UM,

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Speaker 1: including some that started using mice. UM. That's Lisa. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: the Apple Lisa, many of which are in landfills now,

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Speaker 1: were extremely expensive machines. Yes, exactly, we're all in ones UM.

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Speaker 1: And they also had controlled they did have mice and uh,

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Speaker 1: there was another product that came out right about the

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Speaker 1: same time as the Lisa that Steve Jobs was working on.

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Speaker 1: The The CEO had put him on the project because

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Speaker 1: he had become one of the uh, one of the

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Speaker 1: directors in the company, but he was no longer directly

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Speaker 1: in charge of Apple at that point. Are you are

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Speaker 1: you thinking of the Macintosh computer? That would be the

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Speaker 1: one because we totally skipped over the Apple three. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I forgot about the Apple Yeah, well most people did. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's right, because the Apple three ended up. Here's the

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Speaker 1: thing about the Apple three. There was a problem early

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Speaker 1: in the production and Apple had to recall around fourteen

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Speaker 1: thousand units, and after that it just couldn't get a

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Speaker 1: grip on the market because no one trusted it. I wonder,

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Speaker 1: can you think of any current products that people have

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Speaker 1: of a growing mistrust about, even though it seems like

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Speaker 1: all the problems have been fixed. Uh, yeah, I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: of I'm thinking of we can talk about that when

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Speaker 1: we get the gates. I guess, because there's there's a

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that right now there's a product that is

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Speaker 1: experiencing the same problem. Early on, it had problems, They

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Speaker 1: fixed the problems, and yet no one wants to use it.

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Speaker 1: Um suppose it depends on your outlook or so. Back

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Speaker 1: to the Macintosh you have now, the Macintosh was really

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Speaker 1: designed to compete directly with the PC. So now we've

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Speaker 1: got we've got our our classic matchup here, the Mac

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Speaker 1: and the PC UM. And the Mac had an advantage

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Speaker 1: because it used a graphical user interface and yes, which

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Speaker 1: was very similar to one that Xerox created, wasn't not Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was almost identical. But that's funny because future versions

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Speaker 1: of a program called Windows, people would accuse accuse Microsoft

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Speaker 1: of creating Windows to essentially recreate the macin toosh experience,

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Speaker 1: and the Macintosh experience was kind of recreating the Xerox experience. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know that shrewd guy over at Microsoft I can't

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Speaker 1: remember his name. Yeah, we'll get to him managed to

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Speaker 1: convince Alpha to let them license the micro the Macintosh

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Speaker 1: the Macintosh was, at the time of its arrival, a

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Speaker 1: superior machine to the PC. It was it had a

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Speaker 1: better memory, had a better processor, UM, but it was

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Speaker 1: also more expensive, which you know what, Hey, some thing's

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Speaker 1: never change. And um also around this time was the

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Speaker 1: infamous Super Bowl add the nineteen four Super Bowl add. Now,

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Speaker 1: that was a Macintosh ad that was very Orwellian in nature.

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Speaker 1: It was this very dreary world where everyone was bald

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Speaker 1: giant screen and it was very dramatic. Well, that was

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Speaker 1: the thing was that in three there weren't graphical user interfaces,

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Speaker 1: at least not on everyone's desktop. So um, that was

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Speaker 1: the point of the ad was that wouldn't be like

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Speaker 1: the book. Um So this was the big introduction for

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Speaker 1: the McIntosh in general. Was the the famous ad, right

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Speaker 1: and and surround this time also that um, Steve Jobs

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Speaker 1: brings in a guy to help run the Apple Company

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Speaker 1: to make it, you know, more successful against the PCs,

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Speaker 1: a guy named John Scully who was from Pepsi. And

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Speaker 1: this turned out to not be such a great decision.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in the end, I guess it was, but

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Speaker 1: not in the short term. Um So Jobs brings in Scully,

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Speaker 1: and Scully by five thinks Jobs is more of a

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Speaker 1: problem than an asset for Apple. Yeah, that that's true. Um,

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Speaker 1: you see jobs is Uh, he's got a bit of

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Speaker 1: a strong personality. Yeah, that's a that's a light way

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Speaker 1: of putting it. Yeah, very Yeah. He's known for um,

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Speaker 1: throwing things and people around. No, he's he's known for

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Speaker 1: throwing tantrums. He's known for he's known for throwing town

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Speaker 1: or maybe that's probably the wrong term for it, but

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Speaker 1: he is known for getting very very angry and making

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Speaker 1: sure people knew about it. Well, it's no secret that

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Speaker 1: in his days at Apple, when he takes someone off,

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Speaker 1: and he has been known to fire people, uh, with

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Speaker 1: a very hair trigger sort of spirit, it's called getting

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Speaker 1: steved um. And that's that's really no surprise. Here's the

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Speaker 1: thing was that Steve got steved so in n he

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Speaker 1: gets steved well sort if he decided they basically it

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Speaker 1: relegated him to second class or maybe even fifth class.

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Speaker 1: They pretty much stripped him of all his power. They

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Speaker 1: put him in a totally different building, which he dubbed Siberia,

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Speaker 1: and they put him on meaningless projects and nothing of

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Speaker 1: important has ever seemed to cross his desk. So eventually

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Speaker 1: he said, you know what, I get the message loud

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Speaker 1: and clear. I've done what I set out to do here,

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Speaker 1: to do. And if I can't do them here, I'll

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Speaker 1: do him somewhere else. So he took a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a break. He resigned from Apple, and then he

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Speaker 1: founded the Next corporation. Yeah. Now, uh, Steve had been

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Speaker 1: working on some different educational projects at Apple, and Next

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Speaker 1: was designed, or at least conceived in in Steve Jobs

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Speaker 1: had to be an educational computer system UM, and it

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Speaker 1: was more advanced. It was supposed to run cross platform

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Speaker 1: on different processors UM, and they actually did. They produced

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Speaker 1: hardware UM, an actual box plus an operating system. Right.

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Speaker 1: The problem though, was again the computer. The physical computers

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Speaker 1: were consider a lot of people consider him to be

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Speaker 1: too expensive, so they never really found a foothold UM

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Speaker 1: in the market. I mean they sold some, but they

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Speaker 1: didn't sell as many as they needed to and have. Ventually,

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Speaker 1: Jobs made the decision to get away from hardware and

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Speaker 1: concentrate mainly on software and operating systems. Although that machine

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Speaker 1: was pretty sexy looking, it was kind of bored cubish. Yeah. Um. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: at Apple things were going downhill and that's putting it

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Speaker 1: very mildly. They had come out with a whole string

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Speaker 1: of products that didn't make any sense. Um model numbers,

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Speaker 1: the quality that the box, the actual computers themselves, they

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Speaker 1: were not always they didn't meet they didn't meet the

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Speaker 1: earlier standards than Jobs hadn't demanded back when he was

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Speaker 1: in charge. And then so a decade goes by and uh,

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Speaker 1: and Apple is on the brink of bankruptcy. They the

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Speaker 1: company purchases uh, the next corporation, which you know now

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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs is now back under the umbrella of Apple,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, Jobs makes a move and essentially rests

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Speaker 1: control back so that he's charge of Apple again. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not so certain that that gil Amelia was very

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Speaker 1: sad about that. He seemed to be, uh, sort of

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Speaker 1: he seemed to be sort of happy with that, because

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Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, where Scully was not exactly

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Speaker 1: thrilled with jobs outlook on the on the computer company.

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Speaker 1: I think that uh, he had convinced Amelia that he

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Speaker 1: could do the you know, and do the work necessary.

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Speaker 1: And I think well a lot of people at the

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Speaker 1: time said that Apple didn't buy Next, they bought Steve

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Speaker 1: Jobs back, So you know, it's not as surprising. It's

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Speaker 1: not as surprising. Um, there was something else, another little

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Speaker 1: project that Steve Jobs worked on in the in the

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Speaker 1: meantime to uh, he bought a little a part of

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Speaker 1: the LucasArts Company, the Computer Animation Studio, for ten million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which would never amounted anything well under its original name,

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Speaker 1: but it changed his name to Pixar. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Pixar of course, being the the movie company that brought

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Speaker 1: us such wonderful things as a toy story, a Bug's Life,

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Speaker 1: um in Incredibles, well come on, even even cars. So

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Speaker 1: but yeah, so they were in charge of that. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's Jobs was very savvy. He purchased that company. No no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: not savvy. He bought it for ten million dollars. And uh,

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Speaker 1: of course in two thousand six, Disney bought it in

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Speaker 1: an all stock purchase for seven point four billion dollars. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's savvy. Yeah yeah. But and of course now Jobs

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Speaker 1: Jobs is on the board for Disney, so there's that

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Speaker 1: as well. He owns part of the Disney So that's uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was a good investment. Yeah, that's the reasonable. Now,

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Speaker 1: granted I don't have ten million to make those kind

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Speaker 1: of investments. Otherwise you would see me totally reeling zealing.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, Jobs gets back into Apple, he fires the

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Speaker 1: board and and hires a new board of six members.

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Speaker 1: Um and the and uh completely revamped all the line,

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Speaker 1: the product line, simplified everything. Um. And that's kind of

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Speaker 1: where you know, that's that's leading us up to present day.

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Speaker 1: His decisions to really streamline things, make things look really

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Speaker 1: really sexy. Uh, control everything from the ground up. That

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Speaker 1: was That's kind of what has defined Apple to this day.

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Speaker 1: It's very much a closed system. Um. And Job's point

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Speaker 1: of view is that that way he can guarantee quality.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, his system is closed and his machines are

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Speaker 1: more expensive, but they also look really nice and they

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Speaker 1: work yep. Um and uh, just a note before we

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Speaker 1: we go to Bill Gates. UM. You know now people

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Speaker 1: are concerned. I'm not sure exactly when this will be posted,

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Speaker 1: but it was announced in December two eight that Steve

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Speaker 1: Jobs would not be leading the keynote at the Macworld

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Speaker 1: Expo in January, which has caused some consternation because he's

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Speaker 1: had some health issues that his death was falsely reported,

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Speaker 1: and people are concerned now that he is so intertwined

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Speaker 1: with Apple and its future that if he if something

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Speaker 1: happens to him, if he steps down, or if he

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Speaker 1: were you know, horror. You know, he's been diagnosed with

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Speaker 1: pancreatic cancer. He had a surgery to remove the tumor

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Speaker 1: um a year after they discovered it, because he resisted

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Speaker 1: the surgery. But uh an Apple actually got some flak

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Speaker 1: for that because they didn't report that to shareholders. And

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Speaker 1: some people say, well, you know, when when your CEO

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Speaker 1: has been diagnosed with a potentially fatal um illness, the

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Speaker 1: shareholders have a right to know because that could completely

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Speaker 1: affect the shares of the company. Uh. The other side

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Speaker 1: of that is that it's a private matter. It's a

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Speaker 1: health matter, um and that's a sticky situation. But at

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Speaker 1: any rate, he seemed to make a pretty good recovery,

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Speaker 1: although people always comment on you know, he looks thin,

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Speaker 1: he's lost way, so people are are concerned. So there's

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Speaker 1: some concern that maybe jobs as health had something to

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Speaker 1: do with him stepping away. I don't think that that's

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Speaker 1: necessarily the case at all. It's just one of those

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Speaker 1: unfortunate coincidences that can lead you to a faulty conclusion.

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Speaker 1: Now that's not to say the conclusion is faulty. I

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Speaker 1: could be totally wrong, but I'm willing to believe them

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Speaker 1: on this one. UM. And I was gonna point out

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Speaker 1: one other thing before we move on to Bill Gates,

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Speaker 1: because it's an interesting counterpoint. Uh So, the Stanford Social

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Speaker 1: Innovation Review founder once referred to Steve Jobs as UM

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Speaker 1: are actually to Apple itself as America's least philanthropic company.

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Speaker 1: Um And in an Apple it h cut a lot

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Speaker 1: of its philanthropic UM programs. Uh and in a way

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Speaker 1: to to try and cut costs and never reinstituted them.

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Speaker 1: And I had no idea we could talk about Steve

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Speaker 1: Jobs that neither got a lot of Well, since we've

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Speaker 1: gone on so long, I'm guessing we should probably divide

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Speaker 1: this up and have a part too. Let's let's visit

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Speaker 1: Mr Gates in another podcast. Yeah, next week we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: tackle Billy Gates before we go. There's one other thing

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Speaker 1: I'd like to share that I think is really cool

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Speaker 1: about Steve Jobs. So, what's this amazing fact? So I

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Speaker 1: got one of these things that I just think is

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Speaker 1: really cool. Um. And it's the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: a showman like Steve Jobs would pull out um back

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Speaker 1: when they were trying to find a way to turn

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Speaker 1: Apple around. Uh, Steve agreed to take a pay cut.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he now makes as as the co founder,

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Speaker 1: chairman and CEO of Apple, he makes one dollar a

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Speaker 1: year in salary and now was so he could keep

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Speaker 1: his medical benefits. Of course he has compensated in other ways.

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Speaker 1: He gets a little stock which yeah, yeah, But it's

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Speaker 1: funny because with all the the automakers talking about ways

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Speaker 1: to do, you know, turn the companies around in Congress

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Speaker 1: giving them a hard time about it, that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things they've talked about doing is taking a pay

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Speaker 1: cut to a dollar a year or so. You know,

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Speaker 1: again an innovator, That sounds good. Well, until then, check

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Speaker 1: out some articles on how stuff works dot com. We've

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Speaker 1: got everything from iPods to Apple cloud computers on there

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Speaker 1: and that should keep you nice and entertainment educated throughout

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Speaker 1: the week before we hit Billy and we'll talk to

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Speaker 1: you again soon for more on this and thousands of

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Speaker 1: other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com? Let

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Speaker 1: us know what you think. Send an email to podcast

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Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Brought to you by

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Speaker 1: the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, Are you