WEBVTT - S2:Ep 5 - The Prince

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<v Speaker 1>Just a heads up. This episode includes descriptions of an

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<v Speaker 1>alleged sexual assault. I mean, I knew, we all knew

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<v Speaker 1>that once he was gone, things we're gonna change. There

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<v Speaker 1>was a feeling in the air in Wilmina. Frankfurt visited

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<v Speaker 1>Balancing in the hospital. She was on edge about the future.

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<v Speaker 1>I felt protected by Balancing. He would just always take

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<v Speaker 1>care of me. I knew that, and I knew that

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<v Speaker 1>when he was gone, that that was not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be the case. Balancing Lee, weak and confused in a

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<v Speaker 1>hospital bed, that he hadn't left for weeks and that

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<v Speaker 1>he would never leave. At seventy nine, he was dying

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<v Speaker 1>of a rare neurological disease. He would have to hand

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<v Speaker 1>over the company to a success user, but the topic

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<v Speaker 1>of succession didn't seem to interest Balancing. He'd say, after

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<v Speaker 1>he died, he wouldn't be there, so they wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>his ballets. He had no expectation that the New York

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<v Speaker 1>City Ballet would survive his death. He seems to absolve

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<v Speaker 1>himself from the decision except for one point. Whoever his

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<v Speaker 1>successor would be, he said, it could only be a

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<v Speaker 1>man who loves women. Peter had become the acting director,

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<v Speaker 1>and you could feel the shift coming. Peter Martin's was

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<v Speaker 1>a principal dancer in the company, Originally from Denmark. Peter

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<v Speaker 1>was striking, with full blonde hair and wide set blue eyes,

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<v Speaker 1>six two inches of muscle. He was known for his technique.

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<v Speaker 1>His movements were steady and precise. His body cut through

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<v Speaker 1>the stage at elegant and crisp angles. His dancing could

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<v Speaker 1>be emotionless, his expression never changing. The whole package suited

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<v Speaker 1>Balancing and his plotless abstract ballets. You know, I had

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<v Speaker 1>lots of good times with Peter. I had lots and

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<v Speaker 1>lots of fun with him, and I loved his dancing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a little boring, but it's what a beautiful technician

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<v Speaker 1>and balance she made incredible parts for him. Peter had

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<v Speaker 1>already been involved in day to day operations. He was

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<v Speaker 1>casting parts now and running rehearsals. Maybe he would be

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<v Speaker 1>in charge after Balancing died. Whoever Peter loved, they were

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<v Speaker 1>starting to dance more. But Wilhelmina says, if he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>like you, you might be shut out. I was on

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<v Speaker 1>that list for a number of reasons. People Peter didn't like. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not that he didn't like me. It's just that

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<v Speaker 1>that I knew too much from my heart podcasts and

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<v Speaker 1>Rococo Punch. This is the turning. I'm Erica Lance, Part five,

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<v Speaker 1>The Prince. I don't know that you can have a

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<v Speaker 1>ballet company without a certain kind of hierarchy, the same

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<v Speaker 1>way orchestras usually have conductors and movies have directors. A

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<v Speaker 1>complex piece of art involving a lot of people and

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<v Speaker 1>moving parts needs a north star, and that's what Balancine

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<v Speaker 1>was to his dancers. He controlled the artistic vision and

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<v Speaker 1>a cadre of dancers who are willing to give everything

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<v Speaker 1>to be part of it. I think a lot was

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<v Speaker 1>codified when Balancing created his school, then company, aspects that

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<v Speaker 1>have been institutionalized around dancers, work ethic, and body aesthetics.

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<v Speaker 1>Whoever a successor would be, they wouldn't only inherit the company,

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<v Speaker 1>but also the culture, a culture that sucks you in

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<v Speaker 1>from the moment you enter Balancing School of American Ballet.

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<v Speaker 1>But I lived without my family. I moved out from

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<v Speaker 1>my family, so my grow up school was fast and furious.

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<v Speaker 1>That's where Wilhelmina first encountered Peter Martin's It was nine

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<v Speaker 1>she was thirteen years old. In the boarding house for

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<v Speaker 1>the School of American Ballet. There were sixteen of us,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like little Maiden saw in a row. Right away,

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<v Speaker 1>Wilhelmina admired one of the older girls who was sixteen,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was a very big influence on me because

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<v Speaker 1>she was California girl, like really California dream and hip you.

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<v Speaker 1>She had lots of clothes, she was a really good dancer,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was awe struck. Someone else was interested in

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<v Speaker 1>Wilhelmina's friend too, Peter Martin's the tall blonde star in

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<v Speaker 1>the New York City Ballet. He wasn't a student, he

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<v Speaker 1>was a professional dancer already in the company. Peter had

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<v Speaker 1>trained and danced at the Royal Danish Ballet, but in

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<v Speaker 1>nine he started to perform as a guest artist at

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<v Speaker 1>New York City Ballet. His first role was Apollo. He

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<v Speaker 1>played the role of the young god to his three Muses.

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<v Speaker 1>Soon after, Balancine invited Peter to join the company as

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<v Speaker 1>a principal, the highest rank a dancer can reach. Peter

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<v Speaker 1>asked Wilhelmina's friend out on a date. He was twenty

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<v Speaker 1>three and she was sixteen, which is you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>little I know, but but oh well she was allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to go. So we all fifteen of us helped her

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<v Speaker 1>get dressed and we were all excited little ballerines. And

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<v Speaker 1>he came and he wasn't allowed about the second floor

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<v Speaker 1>and we all looked out the window, and off she

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<v Speaker 1>went with him, and he was already, you know, big

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<v Speaker 1>global star. So it's like she landed the big star

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<v Speaker 1>at a young age. It felt exciting. Yeah, yeah, very

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<v Speaker 1>soon Peter and Wilhelmine's roommate became a couple. We used

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<v Speaker 1>to go over to Peters and play poker and hang out.

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<v Speaker 1>It was fun. We were like very young couples, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I was like fifteen sixteen. It felt special to be

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<v Speaker 1>a dancer in New York. At that moment. The dance boom,

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<v Speaker 1>great dance of all kinds swirled around them. They could

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<v Speaker 1>catch the performance any night and they were a part

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<v Speaker 1>of it. What was that time, like, did you kind

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<v Speaker 1>of feel like unsupervised teens or what was that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of period like, Um, I didn't feel like unsupervised teens.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we felt like we were grown ups. It

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<v Speaker 1>was like sort of glamorous in a way, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>even though we had like crummy apartments and not really

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<v Speaker 1>any money or anything. It was fun. And how much

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<v Speaker 1>time did you spend with your fellow dancers, Like in

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<v Speaker 1>and out of the classroom all the time, all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't have any other friends. It was just you

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<v Speaker 1>go from class to lunch to the apartments you shared.

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<v Speaker 1>You were always just with dancers. Your experience with them

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<v Speaker 1>is so deep, and your children together, and so it

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<v Speaker 1>carries through for the rest of your life. You're not

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<v Speaker 1>really call workers your family. Did it ever, do you

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<v Speaker 1>ever feel like it led to like warped relationships where

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<v Speaker 1>you know, lines get blurry, or was there ever a

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<v Speaker 1>flip side where that went too far? Do you feel

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<v Speaker 1>like when it comes to the closeness or just how

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<v Speaker 1>you're like constantly in each other's lives. Well, I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>conscious of that, so I don't know. I don't really

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<v Speaker 1>know anything else to wil Amina. It just all felt normal.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't an until later that I knew there was

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<v Speaker 1>a dark side. I was always a little afraid of him,

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<v Speaker 1>even before I witnessed anything, and I think that dates

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<v Speaker 1>back to my own instinct with my own father. And

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<v Speaker 1>my dad was an alcoholic and so there was just

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<v Speaker 1>that avier, and that's a specific behavior. There's an anger

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<v Speaker 1>that occurs that's different from other anger. Wilhelmina says they

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<v Speaker 1>all drank a lot and could lose control, herself included,

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<v Speaker 1>but there is an edge to Peter that made her nervous.

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<v Speaker 1>Even if there's not a violence that occurs, it's violent.

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<v Speaker 1>It crosses a line. First I started seeing Uh. While

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<v Speaker 1>I can talk about the public arguments, it's been publicly

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<v Speaker 1>documented that Peter and Wilhelmina's friend had a turbulent relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>They've both used the word tempestuous to describe it in

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<v Speaker 1>the past. Neither of them wanted to comment for this series.

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<v Speaker 1>The l A Times quoted her saying Peter and I

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<v Speaker 1>did not have a physically vie relationship, But after a

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<v Speaker 1>long silence, she adds, that is not to say that

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<v Speaker 1>I have not pummeled him in the arm more than once.

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<v Speaker 1>And if I pushed Peter hard enough, if I shrieked

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<v Speaker 1>and yelled and cried and screamed and caused a scene

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<v Speaker 1>and he couldn't take it anymore, he would restrain me.

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<v Speaker 1>In those days, there was like a lot. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what it is now, but there was a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of drinking that went down a lot, a lot and

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of messy stuff because of it. And then

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<v Speaker 1>Wilhelmina says there were times she'd pick up her friend

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<v Speaker 1>and she'd see marks on her body or a black eye.

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<v Speaker 1>For people who are are kids, what do you do?

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<v Speaker 1>When Wilhelmina was in her late teens, her father came

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<v Speaker 1>to visit New York, My very angry father. He was

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<v Speaker 1>in town, and I was having a birthday party. Willomina

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<v Speaker 1>threw a birthday party for her boyfriend. It was at

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<v Speaker 1>Peter's house, a mix of dancers from the comp then

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<v Speaker 1>he attended. One of the guests was the renowned ballerina

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<v Speaker 1>Gelsie Kirkland. Years later, Gelsie would famously write about this

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<v Speaker 1>party in a memoir, It's a true story. It is

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<v Speaker 1>a true story. There were all kinds of people there.

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<v Speaker 1>Gelcie was having an affair with Peter, my boyfriend was

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<v Speaker 1>seeing somebody else, and everybody was like kids and screwing around,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like college, right very college. Wilhelmina was downstairs

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<v Speaker 1>in this duplex when suddenly her dad came in. My

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<v Speaker 1>dad comes and grabs me and says, you have to

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<v Speaker 1>leave now, and I said, well wait, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>threw me in the cab. Wilhelmina's friend, Peter's girlfriend was

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<v Speaker 1>in the cab. Peter was on the ground. My dad

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<v Speaker 1>knocked Peter out, knocked him out, apparently. Wilhelmina says her

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<v Speaker 1>dad had come outside for a smoke and he'd found

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<v Speaker 1>Peter there in a rage hitting his girlfriend. My dad,

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<v Speaker 1>who was also physically abusive to my mother all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>drunk there. He was seeing himself right, and that was bad.

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<v Speaker 1>We reached out to Peter Martin's multiple times for comments

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<v Speaker 1>on this and the other details on this episode, but

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<v Speaker 1>we received no response. When I hear Willelmina tell this story,

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<v Speaker 1>it just strikes me how messy all this was. According

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<v Speaker 1>to her in Gelsie Kirkland, there was a far more

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<v Speaker 1>senior dancer in the company dating a woman much younger,

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<v Speaker 1>and here he was allegedly getting violent outside a party

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<v Speaker 1>full of people they worked with. And then there's will

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<v Speaker 1>Almina in the middle of it all. Her dad, who

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<v Speaker 1>himself has a history of being abusive, gets aggressive. It's

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<v Speaker 1>strange to think how it must have felt for everyone involved,

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<v Speaker 1>But It's also strange that it took someone from the outside,

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<v Speaker 1>someone not in the company, someone not linked to its hierarchy,

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<v Speaker 1>to intervene in that moment. At seventeen, Wilhelmina was a

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<v Speaker 1>member of the Quarterballe. Her ambition at this point was

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<v Speaker 1>to gain strength as a dancer move ahead in the

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<v Speaker 1>company land more roles. She says, you didn't care about

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<v Speaker 1>fame or being well known. She just wanted to dance

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<v Speaker 1>the parts of her idols like Patricia McBride and a

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<v Speaker 1>Leger Kent. Meanwhile, Peter Martin's was still a prince of

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<v Speaker 1>in the company. He had relationships with numerous danswers, but

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<v Speaker 1>Wilhelmina says she didn't feel he was interested in her.

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<v Speaker 1>I never thought he was really attracted to me. I wasn't.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't his body type. He didn't like my dancing,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. It was like I was

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<v Speaker 1>just not his cup of tea. We wound up sitting

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<v Speaker 1>next to each other on the plane he was going

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<v Speaker 1>back to New York, and we were talking and and

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<v Speaker 1>he said to me, I'm intimidated by you. And I

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<v Speaker 1>said why, and he said, because you're just so much

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<v Speaker 1>woman you're so feminine, you're so much of a woman.

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<v Speaker 1>Peter had one specific type, and that was like a

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<v Speaker 1>boyish body, which is not my body at all. But

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<v Speaker 1>Wilhelmina says something changed when she was about twenty. She'd

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<v Speaker 1>been in the company for four years. This one summer,

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<v Speaker 1>I was really anorexic and he started coming after me.

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<v Speaker 1>He kept trying to get with me right now. I

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<v Speaker 1>kept pushing me away and saying, you know, come on,

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<v Speaker 1>you have a girlfriend and she's my friend. He just

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<v Speaker 1>didn't let up. He was trying to corner me, corner me,

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<v Speaker 1>corner me, and I kept saying, no, you know, stop,

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<v Speaker 1>come on stop. It was flattering because he's this big, beautiful,

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<v Speaker 1>handsome star. At the same time, it was just unnerving

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<v Speaker 1>to have to handle it. One day that summer, Wilhelmina

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<v Speaker 1>says she was performing Balancine's Stars and Stripes. It was

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<v Speaker 1>a high energy piece, rash and silly and technically difficult,

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<v Speaker 1>and said to music by John Philip Susa. Valentine directed

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<v Speaker 1>the dancers to prance and jumped in a large moving circle.

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<v Speaker 1>They walk on their toes on point, flirt with each other,

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<v Speaker 1>high kick, and do the splits in mid air. They

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<v Speaker 1>even salute the audience. He called the ballet an applause machine.

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<v Speaker 1>Will Almina wore a tutu and a bodice that looked

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<v Speaker 1>like an American flag. I was on the side of

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<v Speaker 1>the wing watching Wilolmina had a couple of movements to

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<v Speaker 1>wait through before as she went back on stage for

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<v Speaker 1>the finale. Suddenly Peter appeared. He came into the wing

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<v Speaker 1>in his robe and he said, come with me. I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, now, okay. And his dressing room was on

0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>the side of stage, and I went in and he

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 1>opened his rope just like that. He exposed himself, she says.

0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 1>And I mean, I'm in the middle of a vallet.

0:16:54.640 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 1>I know, it's like I was like Peter. Then Wilhelmina

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.720
<v Speaker 1>had to go back on stage. She joined the twenty

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.440
<v Speaker 1>six other women and fourteen men in the grand finale.

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.280
<v Speaker 1>She saluted and kicked, lined and pirouetted and marched. She

0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 1>jumped in formation while a giant American flag the size

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.480
<v Speaker 1>of the entire backdrop unfurled behind her. She lunched for

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the final pose. And I just kept it to myself,

0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, I kept it to myself. I think if

0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 1>you've never experienced that kind of pressure or that kind

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 1>of someone stepping over the lawn, it might be hard

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 1>to understand, you know what I mean. It's embarrassing. And

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:55.400
<v Speaker 1>also I wanted to try to keep the peace, so

0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.320
<v Speaker 1>she didn't tell anyone. She didn't know who she would

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.240
<v Speaker 1>tell anyway, there was no hr, there was nobody to

0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.920
<v Speaker 1>go to, and if you were going to go to somebody,

0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.879
<v Speaker 1>it was going to be somebody that also wanted to

0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 1>keep their own job, and we're loyal to them. Do

0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.399
<v Speaker 1>you feel like that's something you could have gone to

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:18.480
<v Speaker 1>balancing about. No? Uh uh, I think it's that you

0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 1>just I feel like a victim. Act like a victim,

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's like that kind of I'm easy prey

0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.639
<v Speaker 1>that way, and you don't want anybody to know. You

0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 1>always feel like what do what? What have what did

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 1>I do to cause it? That's just where you jumped to.

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.439
<v Speaker 1>Other people may have gone to him about things that

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.920
<v Speaker 1>happened to them and and I don't know who they

0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:49.200
<v Speaker 1>are or what that would have been, but um, yeah

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.480
<v Speaker 1>I didn't. I it was I didn't feel like I

0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 1>could go and bother him with that. Yeah, m hm.

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:05.440
<v Speaker 1>I went to him more with you know, dancing problems,

0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:11.640
<v Speaker 1>life problems, money problems, you know, and stuff like that,

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.520
<v Speaker 1>but not abuse stuff. And I don't think anybody did.

0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:19.920
<v Speaker 1>As years went on, I talked to some people who

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 1>were younger after me, and uh, I was telling that

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 1>story and she laughed. She said, oh yeah, she said,

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.679
<v Speaker 1>that's what he did. You know how many people have

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.200
<v Speaker 1>that story? That's what he did. We spoke with the

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.200
<v Speaker 1>one dancer she's had. Her friend who has since died,

0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.080
<v Speaker 1>told her that Peter exposed himself to her like this.

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.760
<v Speaker 1>At the time, Wilhelmina mostly blamed herself. When someone steps

0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.879
<v Speaker 1>over the line with you, you wonder what you're doing

0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:55.080
<v Speaker 1>to make that happen. You wonder what have I done?

0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.159
<v Speaker 1>You don't look at that person should just not be

0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.040
<v Speaker 1>doing that, I mean, and that's what you do with

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.399
<v Speaker 1>your abuser. Wilhelmina says, Peter Martin's left her alone for

0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years after that Stars and Strikes performance. Meanwhile,

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 1>he gained power in the company Balancing held private coaching

0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.600
<v Speaker 1>sessions with Peter in the seventies. Like most male dancers,

0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Peter didn't know a lot about the mechanics of dancing

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 1>on point balancing, and Peter would took away in an

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:36.160
<v Speaker 1>empty rehearsal room for hours with a female dancer. They're

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 1>balanching showed Peter how to choreograph on a woman. He

0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 1>talked about balance, placement and the female body. By there

0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:49.919
<v Speaker 1>was a lot of speculation about whether Peter would be

0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.000
<v Speaker 1>the one to step into balancing shoes someday. A New

0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.639
<v Speaker 1>York Times magazine article from that year wrote about the

0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:01.000
<v Speaker 1>first piece Peter choreographed. Quote, the boys first entrance expresses

0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.600
<v Speaker 1>all of Martin's frustration and fascination at being a man

0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.920
<v Speaker 1>working at an art made for women. The boy walks

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.399
<v Speaker 1>across the stage with his toes curled under his foot.

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.679
<v Speaker 1>He experiments and steps on the tops of his toes,

0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.439
<v Speaker 1>testing what it feels like trying to climb up on point.

0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.600
<v Speaker 1>The critic wrote of Peter, He's an extremely intelligent and

0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:34.680
<v Speaker 1>promising choreographer, but he's not found himself yet. The headline

0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:40.680
<v Speaker 1>read Peter Martin's Prince of the Dance. That same year,

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.640
<v Speaker 1>Peter Martin's got promoted to ballet master in the company.

0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.159
<v Speaker 1>Three months after the story ran, the company went on

0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:53.359
<v Speaker 1>tour to Fort Worth, Texas, Wilhelmina was. There was a

0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 1>party one night. Wilhelmina says, you know, one of those

0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 1>fancy dinners. And it was in the hotel and I left.

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.600
<v Speaker 1>He got in the elevator with me. He followed me

0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 1>to my room. He was drunk. I had a few

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 1>glasses of wine. I was not drunk, but you know,

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.320
<v Speaker 1>and he stood at the door and then I said

0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.040
<v Speaker 1>to him, do you want to come in? And he

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:20.840
<v Speaker 1>said yes, and so he came in. I said to him,

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:22.720
<v Speaker 1>you want me to get some room service and get

0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.359
<v Speaker 1>some coffee or do you want to talk? What's wrong?

0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Peter said he didn't want coffee. Wilhelmina says, instead, he

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 1>came toward her. He attacked me. I didn't think I

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:40.439
<v Speaker 1>was going to get out of it. First he shoved

0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:42.679
<v Speaker 1>me up against the wall. You know, there was a

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.920
<v Speaker 1>built in desk. He shoved me up against the wall.

0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:51.639
<v Speaker 1>He he pushed his body weight against me. He ripped

0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:55.880
<v Speaker 1>up my dress. I pushed him off and he grabbed

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.000
<v Speaker 1>me again, kind of rough, and he threw me down

0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.560
<v Speaker 1>on the bed. You know, he got on top of

0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:06.040
<v Speaker 1>me and he was out of control. The guy was

0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:10.840
<v Speaker 1>out of control, and I think he probably figured since

0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I asked him in that you know he was gonna

0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:20.640
<v Speaker 1>fuck me. I said, Peter, get off, get off, get off.

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 1>You know, I was just screaming at him like that,

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:28.919
<v Speaker 1>get off. I remember at one point feeling like I

0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:34.240
<v Speaker 1>wanted to bash him head with a telephone. I remember

0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:40.600
<v Speaker 1>thinking that I got it was like I got like

0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 1>an exorcist voice, and I said, get the fuck off me, motherfucker,

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:52.480
<v Speaker 1>the fuck off me. So I fought my way and

0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:55.840
<v Speaker 1>sniggled my way out from underteath it, and then I

0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.720
<v Speaker 1>very firmly said to him, Peter, get out of here,

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:07.359
<v Speaker 1>and he finally pulled himself together. He stood up. He

0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:11.919
<v Speaker 1>looked at me. He said, you mean you're turning me down?

0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.919
<v Speaker 1>And I said, yeah, turning you down one of the

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 1>few I remember. I said that. I said, one of

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:28.600
<v Speaker 1>the few, huh, And then he left. It was horrible.

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Right after I was I was shaking. I don't even

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:35.679
<v Speaker 1>know if it's so much that he wanted to like

0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:39.720
<v Speaker 1>to have, if it was the sex as much as

0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:46.600
<v Speaker 1>the the violence of overpowering me so that I I

0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:54.400
<v Speaker 1>was helpless, physically helpless. That was really nervous about seeing

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:59.400
<v Speaker 1>him in class and in rehearsal and it was so awkward.

0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 1>But I remember the next day just walking into class

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:11.880
<v Speaker 1>and looking at him and thinking, uh, it was it

0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:16.520
<v Speaker 1>was horrible. Will Almina wasn't a daze for a while

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:19.520
<v Speaker 1>after that, like she couldn't make sense of it. Yet.

0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 1>You leave your body, for sure, you get lifted off

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.159
<v Speaker 1>your body in a way, you know, and out of

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:31.080
<v Speaker 1>your head in order to handle it. I think, just

0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:37.640
<v Speaker 1>because you're so wounded and you're trying to recover and

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:40.560
<v Speaker 1>deal with what happened and did that happen? How did

0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:43.399
<v Speaker 1>that happen? Did I really live through that? You know?

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:49.479
<v Speaker 1>I felt like I had to cover it up and

0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:54.480
<v Speaker 1>let it go. Will Almina says she told two friends

0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:57.639
<v Speaker 1>about this incident at the time. We spoke to one

0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:00.760
<v Speaker 1>of them, who says she couldn't remember whether Wilhelmina told

0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:04.159
<v Speaker 1>her about it. She says, you remembers the tour and

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 1>that tours could be wild times with people running up

0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.840
<v Speaker 1>and down the halls drunk. She says it could have happened,

0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:11.920
<v Speaker 1>and she can't think of a reason that will Almina

0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:14.919
<v Speaker 1>would invent the story, But she says it was several

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:18.359
<v Speaker 1>decades ago and she couldn't remember a conversation like that

0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:29.480
<v Speaker 1>with Wilhelmina. Mostly Wilhelmina continued in the company as if

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:35.440
<v Speaker 1>nothing had happened. She kept it to herself. Before this interview.

0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:38.320
<v Speaker 1>She told a reporter at Salon it was something so

0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 1>big she couldn't talk about it. I didn't say anything,

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 1>went the next day into rehearsal, didn't say a word,

0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:54.960
<v Speaker 1>and didn't say a word for thirty years. He didn't

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:57.960
<v Speaker 1>talk to me really for a little while after that.

0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 1>We stayed away from each other after that. That's why

0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:08.520
<v Speaker 1>I knew that when Mr b died, my days were numbered.

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:46.959
<v Speaker 1>After Balancine died in three the board of the New

0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:50.440
<v Speaker 1>York City Ballet made an announcement Peter Martin's and the

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:54.520
<v Speaker 1>choreographer Jerome Robbins would run the company together. They'd be

0:27:54.600 --> 0:27:58.280
<v Speaker 1>co ballet masters in chief. Those are terrible shoes to

0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 1>have to step into, no matter who you are. Even

0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:04.880
<v Speaker 1>though she felt for Peter, she was wary of him too,

0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:08.480
<v Speaker 1>and right away she noticed a difference in his approach

0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:13.680
<v Speaker 1>compared to balancings. Will Amina says Balantine was tough but fair.

0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:19.600
<v Speaker 1>He pushed dancers but never yelled, But Peter was volatile.

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:24.920
<v Speaker 1>It was taking this new direction of lack of respect

0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:31.919
<v Speaker 1>to the dancers. You know, anger, any moment, this rage

0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:38.400
<v Speaker 1>could occur, and that's scary. It is scary. After this

0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:42.880
<v Speaker 1>one performance of a role in Western Symphony, he took

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:46.840
<v Speaker 1>me into the hallway and he was screaming at me,

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.240
<v Speaker 1>screaming at me. He was angry with me about the

0:28:51.280 --> 0:28:53.720
<v Speaker 1>way that I danced. How dare I perform like that?

0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 1>How dare I take advantage of that ballot, this ballot

0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 1>that balancing had coached me in the role, and I

0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:01.120
<v Speaker 1>knew what I was doing for a year. It was

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:02.960
<v Speaker 1>just a way of ripping me out of it. It

0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:05.160
<v Speaker 1>was just a way to get rid of me. I

0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 1>talked back to him when he was screaming at me

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 1>like that, When I stood up for myself, I said,

0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:13.480
<v Speaker 1>what are you gonna do? You're gonna hit me? Because

0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:15.120
<v Speaker 1>he was looking like he was going to hit me,

0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:18.600
<v Speaker 1>and he caught himself and I just ran off crying.

0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Valchan never yelled at us. Never. You knew if he

0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 1>didn't like it, But there was no screaming. As will

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:39.600
<v Speaker 1>Amina sees it, balancing was chivalrous, a gentleman, and balancing

0:29:39.680 --> 0:29:42.200
<v Speaker 1>is definitely known for that. All of the dancers we

0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:44.680
<v Speaker 1>spoke to who trained there balancing spoke of him with

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 1>great affection. We've heard stories of kindness and humor. I

0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:52.840
<v Speaker 1>get the impression that balancing dancers, at least the ones

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:57.880
<v Speaker 1>we've encountered, feel protective over him and his legacy. Wilhelmina included.

0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 1>But what's interesting is that you hear about other sides

0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 1>of balancing too, That he could be cruel, that he

0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 1>sometimes did yell or seemed to purposely humiliate people. One

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:15.560
<v Speaker 1>danswer said, quote, balancing used to scream the same thing

0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:18.440
<v Speaker 1>day after day. I thought you were better. Come on,

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:23.880
<v Speaker 1>come on, what's wrong with you? Are you stupid? In

0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 1>The l A Times reported that when Peter Martin's took over,

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:31.720
<v Speaker 1>company members actually saw Peter as quote less despotic than

0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:36.800
<v Speaker 1>his predecessor balancing, Basically that Peter was a little more relaxed,

0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 1>easier to work with, nicer than balancing. A dancer we

0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:44.600
<v Speaker 1>spoke to talked about how much Peter encouraged her, that

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:50.080
<v Speaker 1>he mentored her to me. It brings home that different

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.240
<v Speaker 1>people can have very different experiences of the same person,

0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:58.479
<v Speaker 1>whether that person is George balancing or Peter Martin's. So

0:30:58.560 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 1>much depends on who you talked to. Wilhelmina says, the

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:10.080
<v Speaker 1>way she saw it at the time, there was no

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.440
<v Speaker 1>chance for her once Mr B was gone and Peter

0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 1>was in charge. I've known him too long and it

0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:17.320
<v Speaker 1>seemed too much and it was very easy for him

0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:19.960
<v Speaker 1>to use that like I've been there too long. He

0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 1>didn't like my dancing. He wanted to see other dancers.

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:24.880
<v Speaker 1>You know. It was his way of forcing me out.

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:29.720
<v Speaker 1>Wilhelmina says she started losing rolls. Her upward trajectory was

0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:33.000
<v Speaker 1>changing direction when he started to take me out of

0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:35.680
<v Speaker 1>everything that I danced, which he did. Mr B was

0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 1>barely cold in the ground. I was very unhappy and

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.080
<v Speaker 1>I was just collecting a paycheck and that's not what

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to do. And my daughter's dad, who was

0:31:44.400 --> 0:31:48.520
<v Speaker 1>with at the time, he said, well, if I don't

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:50.920
<v Speaker 1>like working with somebody, I just leave. And I said, well,

0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.960
<v Speaker 1>it's a little different for you to just leave with

0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.640
<v Speaker 1>what you do than for me to just leave. The

0:31:56.720 --> 0:32:00.280
<v Speaker 1>only place or thing that I've ever known. Ballet was

0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 1>her whole world. But she felt she couldn't stay. I'm

0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 1>in a situation where I'm really unhappy, and it's my

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:17.760
<v Speaker 1>mental health, or it's my mental health, not just or

0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:22.640
<v Speaker 1>it's my mental health. It's the only home I've known,

0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:29.880
<v Speaker 1>if you count from the school for you know, eighteen years.

0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 1>So it is leaving your home, leaving your family, leaving

0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:45.280
<v Speaker 1>your friends, leaving your whole life as you've ever known it,

0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:57.680
<v Speaker 1>and leaving your art form for the unknown. So it's terrifying.

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:05.760
<v Speaker 1>It's absolutely terrifying. Wilhelmina wrote Peter a long letter. She

0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:07.880
<v Speaker 1>says she was too heartbroken to show up and tell

0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:13.239
<v Speaker 1>him in person. I used the excuse of that I

0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 1>was having a baby, you know, God, I got pregnant,

0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:21.560
<v Speaker 1>But it was really that he he made it untenable

0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:25.280
<v Speaker 1>for me to be there, like almost right away, and

0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:28.960
<v Speaker 1>she left. It would take years for Wilhelmina to tell

0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 1>the full story of what happened between her and Peter,

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:35.960
<v Speaker 1>but her account is not the first time we've heard

0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Peter's name associated with alleged violence and sexual misconduct. Back

0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Peter was married and headed the New York City Ballet.

0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:50.440
<v Speaker 1>One night, his wife called the police. She told them

0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Peter physically attacked her at home during an argument that

0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 1>he hit her repeatedly. She said there were cuts and

0:33:56.400 --> 0:34:00.240
<v Speaker 1>bruises across her body. Peter's wife was a big deal

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:03.400
<v Speaker 1>dancer in the company at the time, almost twenty years

0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:06.880
<v Speaker 1>younger than he was. They had started dating when she

0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>was a teenager. After the domestic violence arrest, Peter's wife

0:34:12.280 --> 0:34:15.319
<v Speaker 1>dropped the charges, and the board of the New York

0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:20.080
<v Speaker 1>City Ballet supported him. One member said, quote, it has

0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:22.719
<v Speaker 1>nothing to do with his competency or his support in

0:34:22.719 --> 0:34:32.319
<v Speaker 1>the ballet community. He was still running the company in

0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:36.680
<v Speaker 1>when someone sent the company an anonymous letter. The story

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:40.520
<v Speaker 1>ran in the Washington Post. Peter Martin's was under investigation.

0:34:42.560 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 1>The letter was never made public, but the School of

0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 1>American Ballet announced that it contained quote general nonspecific, allegations

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:52.759
<v Speaker 1>of sexual harassment in the past by Peter Martin's at

0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:57.239
<v Speaker 1>both New York City Ballet and the school. Peter took

0:34:57.280 --> 0:34:59.600
<v Speaker 1>a leave of absence, and the School of American Ballet

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:07.800
<v Speaker 1>hired a lawyer to conduct an internal investigation. One former

0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:10.640
<v Speaker 1>New York City Ballet dancer we spoke to, Shelley Scott,

0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:13.279
<v Speaker 1>recalls a time when she was fourteen or fifteen years

0:35:13.280 --> 0:35:16.359
<v Speaker 1>old and a student at the school before she got

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:19.480
<v Speaker 1>into the company. She says, Peter, who was in his

0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:22.239
<v Speaker 1>early thirties, would follow her and a friend around when

0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:24.719
<v Speaker 1>they were out and about in the city, or hang

0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:27.000
<v Speaker 1>out at the school studios at night and try to

0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:34.000
<v Speaker 1>coax dancers into the men's dressing rooms. Almost immediately after

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:37.359
<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post story, articles started pouring out of major

0:35:37.440 --> 0:35:42.280
<v Speaker 1>newspapers about Peter Martin's history. Dancers came forward to discuss

0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:45.640
<v Speaker 1>violent experiences they said they had with Peter. The New

0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:48.800
<v Speaker 1>York Times ran a story with the headline five dancers

0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:53.920
<v Speaker 1>accused City Ballet's Peter Martin's a physical abuse. One dancer

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:56.719
<v Speaker 1>told reporters that Peter once slammed his fists into the

0:35:56.760 --> 0:36:00.239
<v Speaker 1>wall about an inch from his head. Another said that

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:02.799
<v Speaker 1>Peter grabbed the backs of dancers next to position them

0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:05.600
<v Speaker 1>during rehearsal, and another that he grabbed them by the

0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:09.240
<v Speaker 1>neck to throw them out of his office. A former

0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 1>student said Peter Martin's grabbed him by the neck during

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:13.759
<v Speaker 1>class and yanked him back and forth and what he

0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:16.960
<v Speaker 1>calls a death block. The dancer was twelve years old

0:36:16.960 --> 0:36:19.520
<v Speaker 1>at the time. He'd been horsing around on stage when

0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Peter suddenly grabbed him He said it felt like Peter's

0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:28.920
<v Speaker 1>fingers were piercing his neck muscles. He felt assaulted. Another

0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 1>dancer told The New York Times that when she asked

0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:33.719
<v Speaker 1>Peter about a promotion she wanted, he told her she

0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:36.040
<v Speaker 1>needed to find a way to stand out in his eyes.

0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:41.640
<v Speaker 1>To her, it felt like a sexual proposition. He denied

0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:50.800
<v Speaker 1>these allegations. A few weeks into the investigation, Peter announced

0:36:50.800 --> 0:36:54.880
<v Speaker 1>that he had decided to retire, effective immediately. He wrote

0:36:54.880 --> 0:36:57.480
<v Speaker 1>in a letter, I have denied and continued to deny

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:01.440
<v Speaker 1>that I have engaged in any such misconduct. I cooperated

0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:04.640
<v Speaker 1>fully in the investigation and understand it will be completed shortly.

0:37:05.560 --> 0:37:12.560
<v Speaker 1>I believe its findings would have indicated me in the end.

0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:17.200
<v Speaker 1>The internal investigation into sexual harassment lasted two months, and

0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:21.080
<v Speaker 1>in February it concluded the abuse could not be corroborated.

0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 1>Will Almina watched the news unfold and she didn't like

0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:30.200
<v Speaker 1>what she was seeing. It's documented that his hands on

0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:36.920
<v Speaker 1>actions were too rough at times, just too rough, and

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:43.760
<v Speaker 1>people were afraid to talk about it. He was hurting people.

0:37:45.200 --> 0:37:47.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, when you're teaching Valley, you have to be

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:50.000
<v Speaker 1>very careful. I always asked the students, Is it okay

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:54.640
<v Speaker 1>if I touch you and adjust you here? Because they're kids,

0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:58.600
<v Speaker 1>you know you can't. That wasn't always the case, you know,

0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:02.000
<v Speaker 1>old world dance, they would just grab you and they

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:04.239
<v Speaker 1>do it like this and push you around and pull

0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:07.360
<v Speaker 1>your body this way that way. But you really can't

0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:11.839
<v Speaker 1>do that anymore. And that's a great thing. Even now,

0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 1>her feelings towards Peter are complicated. At times, she feels

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:20.239
<v Speaker 1>bad for him. You know, I applaud him for the

0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:23.960
<v Speaker 1>way that he kept that company going financially. I applaud

0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:28.440
<v Speaker 1>him like nobody could raise money like that guy, and

0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:30.359
<v Speaker 1>the fact that he did it, that he was there

0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:35.160
<v Speaker 1>and he was working and completely devoted to it. And

0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.320
<v Speaker 1>she had always loved Peter's dancing. He was a beautiful

0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:41.799
<v Speaker 1>dancer and he could be like a really fun and

0:38:41.880 --> 0:38:45.719
<v Speaker 1>funny person. But when he was put in charge of

0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:48.680
<v Speaker 1>New York City Valley, there there was nobody saying, hey,

0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:52.360
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, you know, we need to all be

0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:56.720
<v Speaker 1>here and talk about this together. It frustrates wil Almina

0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:59.719
<v Speaker 1>that people don't want to talk about these things, even

0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:03.720
<v Speaker 1>if he understands it. It's a tight, tight, tight world,

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:10.520
<v Speaker 1>and people are scared people are still afraid to talk.

0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:15.360
<v Speaker 1>From the beginning, Balancing asked his dancers to take risks,

0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:19.200
<v Speaker 1>to put everything on the line when they danced. In

0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:22.279
<v Speaker 1>a way, that's what Wilhelmine is doing, because she says

0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:25.399
<v Speaker 1>some people are furious with her for talking publicly like this.

0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:28.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, like my brother said to me, is that

0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:30.839
<v Speaker 1>all you want to be remembered for? And I said, well,

0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:34.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, if that's what happens, if that's all they

0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:42.080
<v Speaker 1>remember before, well yeah, okay, that's okay with me. People

0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:44.799
<v Speaker 1>my age think it's still not appropriate. You don't air

0:39:44.840 --> 0:39:48.480
<v Speaker 1>your garbage, you don't, you know, because they don't see

0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:55.680
<v Speaker 1>the importance of standing up for younger generations. And that's

0:39:55.760 --> 0:39:57.799
<v Speaker 1>really the whole thing. That's the whole thing. I mean.

0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:02.240
<v Speaker 1>I had have a daughter, I have a granddaughter, daughter

0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:08.200
<v Speaker 1>in law, you know, and sons. One of the reasons

0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I was willing to talk about things was so that

0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:22.799
<v Speaker 1>things would change and become safer for young people. Gone unchecked,

0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:27.520
<v Speaker 1>bad things can happen, and and they did. And then

0:40:28.160 --> 0:40:35.319
<v Speaker 1>the tragedy of it was that there was talent that

0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:40.239
<v Speaker 1>got caught up in it, and I didn't get to

0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:45.440
<v Speaker 1>come to its full potential because the trauma of the

0:40:45.560 --> 0:41:00.960
<v Speaker 1>experience was too deep. You're scared when you're young to

0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:04.839
<v Speaker 1>raise your voice. You're afraid to say you know, this

0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:08.920
<v Speaker 1>is happening to me, and even then you face being

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:15.560
<v Speaker 1>shunned like by others. I mean, it's it's it needs

0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:19.239
<v Speaker 1>to be constant, and I think constantly talked about. I

0:41:19.280 --> 0:41:21.640
<v Speaker 1>think so I think it. You know, it can't be

0:41:21.719 --> 0:41:29.600
<v Speaker 1>allowed to go back under Peter Martin's resigned five years ago.

0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Balancine has been dead for forty So what does this

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:36.319
<v Speaker 1>all have to do with Balancine? Listening to this, you

0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:39.560
<v Speaker 1>might think the connection is obvious, or you might be

0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:41.719
<v Speaker 1>angry that I'm bringing these two men together at all

0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.480
<v Speaker 1>or talking about them in this way. I've encountered all

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 1>kinds of reactions to this story. Everyone has an opinion,

0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:54.520
<v Speaker 1>and often they disagree. I've been thinking about just like

0:41:54.719 --> 0:41:58.799
<v Speaker 1>kind of cultural norms, or the creation of culture in

0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:03.440
<v Speaker 1>which things become normalized, and so I just wanted to

0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:05.520
<v Speaker 1>run something by you because I guess I've just been

0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:09.520
<v Speaker 1>thinking about different ways in which balancing is present even now,

0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:15.800
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes I think that it's like he normalized a

0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:21.560
<v Speaker 1>culture that blurs professional and personal life and normalize this

0:42:21.680 --> 0:42:24.439
<v Speaker 1>idea that you can elevate a single man to such

0:42:24.440 --> 0:42:27.600
<v Speaker 1>a place of power that he becomes anipotent in a

0:42:27.640 --> 0:42:32.480
<v Speaker 1>way in this ballet world, and makes it acceptable for

0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Batman to then pursue dancers who work for him and

0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:41.319
<v Speaker 1>to sort of eroticized company life so that sex and

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:46.879
<v Speaker 1>power and art and relationships all get entangled. Hm, I'm

0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:52.320
<v Speaker 1>curious what you make of that. Well, I think it's true,

0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:59.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think it has been true. When that's

0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:02.920
<v Speaker 1>allowed to have been without any oversight, then it becomes

0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:33.360
<v Speaker 1>a norm. We are hoping now that that's going to change.

0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:40.680
<v Speaker 1>The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and I

0:43:40.760 --> 0:43:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Heart Podcasts. It's written and produced by Allen Lance Lesser

0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and Me. Our story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and

0:43:51.920 --> 0:43:56.000
<v Speaker 1>sound designed by James Trout. Jessica Carissa is our assistant producer.

0:43:56.360 --> 0:44:00.239
<v Speaker 1>Andrea Swahey is our digital producer. Fact checking by Drea

0:44:00.320 --> 0:44:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Lopez Crusado. Our executive producers are John Parotti and Jessica

0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.479
<v Speaker 1>Albert at Prococo Punch, I Get Trina Norvelle and Nicki

0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:20.440
<v Speaker 1>e Tour at iHeart Podcasts. For photos and more details

0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 1>on the series, follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch,

0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:27.000
<v Speaker 1>and you can reach out via email The Turning at

0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Rococo punch dot com. I'm Erica Lance. Thanks for listening.