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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines and we have

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Speaker 1: such a great show for you today. Legendary campaign manager

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Speaker 1: Stewart Stevens stops by to talk about how Trump gas

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Speaker 1: lights us into thinking his policies are popular. Then we'll

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Speaker 1: talk to Massachusetts Governor Mora Healley on the real life

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Speaker 1: implications of Trump's careless cuts to the government but.

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Speaker 2: Versus the news SAMII, the woke Supreme Court. You know

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Speaker 2: a lot of people have wondered if they would stand up.

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Speaker 2: Apparently they don't stand up when they want when people

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Speaker 2: want to put poop in our water, but they do

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Speaker 2: deny the Trump administration's request to cancel two billion in

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Speaker 2: foreign eight.

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Speaker 1: You're still in the poop water. I see.

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Speaker 3: I am.

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Speaker 1: Got you very upset. So look, this is the only

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Speaker 1: thing we have standing between us and autocracy, and this

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Speaker 1: is Amy Cony Barrett. The good news is that one

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Speaker 1: of Trump's three justices is not a total lackey. The

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Speaker 1: bad news is she is very ideologically religious. So this

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Speaker 1: is do what you will. Thomas Alito will rubber stamp

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Speaker 1: anything that Donald Trump comes up with Gorsic unless it

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Speaker 1: has to do with Native Americans, and Brett Cavanaugh are

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Speaker 1: basically carbon copies of their older buddies. Amy is actually

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Speaker 1: smart and Roberts has already you know, this is just

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Speaker 1: his ill gotten legacy. So look, here's the story. Can

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Speaker 1: Trump as president cancel legislation passed by Congress? The answer

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Speaker 1: is constitutionally no, but Donald Trump doesn't care. Right, So

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Speaker 1: Elon Mush is doing all of these things. It's an

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Speaker 1: illegal right. Courts have said it's illegal, but now the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court is saying it's illegal. So we have this

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Speaker 1: foreign I think that it will now the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: has said that they have to continue to release it.

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Speaker 1: We'll see what happens. Because JD has already mused about

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Speaker 1: ignoring the courts again, one step closer to the constitutional crisis.

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Speaker 1: All of us see ourselves walking into fun times.

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Speaker 2: So Maria, as we know, one of the worst witnesses

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Speaker 2: against mister Trump, and he hates what people are witness

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Speaker 2: against him. Well is mister Trump himself, because he always

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Speaker 2: says things that are used to gets to a quarter

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Speaker 2: of law, like what you.

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Speaker 4: Missed a g.

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Speaker 2: Carroll for an ex wife of his, and so many

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Speaker 2: other occurrences where do you see it here, Doge.

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Speaker 1: Which you'll remember they had said in court that Elon

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Speaker 1: was not the head of well during this state of

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Speaker 1: the Union, though it's not called the state of a Union,

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Speaker 1: the joint addressed to Congress, Donald Trump said, and you'll

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Speaker 1: be shocked to hear this, I have created the brand

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Speaker 1: new Department of Government Efficiency, Doge. Perhaps you've heard of it, perhaps,

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Speaker 1: which is headed by Elon Musk, who is in the

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Speaker 1: gallery tonight. So there we go. They were saying that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't headed by Elon Musk, but now Trump has

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Speaker 1: said it is headed by Elon Musk, and this means

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Speaker 1: that it is, and that means that he is in charge.

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Speaker 1: And so now a lawyer is submitting new evidence in

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Speaker 1: this case against DOGE using Trump's own words, which is,

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Speaker 1: of course, one of Trump's biggest problems is when he

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Speaker 1: testifies against himself.

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Speaker 2: It's not the first time, that's for sure as well.

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Speaker 2: Though one of those things, you know, he loves his

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Speaker 2: beautiful vets. Yet the Trump administration plans to cut eighty

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Speaker 2: thousand employees from veteran affairs, according to Eternal Memo.

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Speaker 1: You know, here's the thing about all of this, and

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Speaker 1: here's The thing about Trump and veterans. Thirty percent of

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Speaker 1: the federal government is veterans, So if you love vets,

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Speaker 1: you should probably keep them in the federal government. Whole idea,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is like the net net of

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Speaker 1: Trump's address to Congress is that he has a lot

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Speaker 1: of catchphrases He's going to make government more efficient. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of these catchphrases actually mean things that I

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Speaker 1: don't think he nor his voters have thought through. He's

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Speaker 1: going to make government more efficient by firing eighty thousand veterans, right.

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Speaker 1: He's going to make things cheaper by putting in tariffs,

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Speaker 1: which will make things more expensive. These ideas are nonsensical

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Speaker 1: and they do not lead to the objective. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand his voters still seem pretty delighted with him. When

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Speaker 1: you think about last night's speech. There was a ton

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Speaker 1: of like baiting liberals, saying liberals are bad, ton of

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Speaker 1: elevating these very sad stories, but not a lot of

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Speaker 1: like how else solve your problems? Right? Like if you

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Speaker 1: were to say the man had a mandate for anything,

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Speaker 1: it was to make prices lower, what did he spend

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Speaker 1: almost no time talking about making prices lower even like

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Speaker 1: you think about the boy that they had, this DJ

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Speaker 1: who had cancer. So DJ had childhood cancer caused by chemicals?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: They think it was caused by an exposure to chemicals.

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Speaker 1: This Trump administration is gutting the EPA right so that

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Speaker 1: more chemicals can be dumped, so that more children can

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Speaker 1: inhale chemicals. And what else have they done? They've froze

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Speaker 1: NIH funds And do you know where NIH funds go?

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Speaker 1: Childhood cancer? So if you're going to elevate DJ, right,

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Speaker 1: then why would you then elevate him and then muse

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Speaker 1: about how terrible childhood cancer is all the while cutting

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Speaker 1: funding for childhood cancer? And ultimately that is sort of

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Speaker 1: a really good example of what is happening this admin

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Speaker 1: musing about problems while enacting policy that will in fact

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Speaker 1: make the problems worse.

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Speaker 4: It's the Republican way in my opinion.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, speaking of the Republican way, the town halls have

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Speaker 2: gotten very scary for these triggered snowflakes since people are

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Speaker 2: not happy with the Republican congressmen who are attending them,

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Speaker 2: and RCC sent out a memo saying no more town

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Speaker 2: halls and governor walls who is just a guest on

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Speaker 2: our YouTube channel has a very good solution.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Governor Walls, your a friend of mine. Go to

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Speaker 1: our YouTube is very very good with the best.

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Speaker 4: We have some great stuff coming up this week. I

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Speaker 4: might have great.

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Speaker 1: Stuff on the YouTube. Go to YouTube Molly John Fast

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics. So this is actually really smart and this

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Speaker 1: is what when we talk about flooding the zone with facts,

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Speaker 1: this is what we're talking about. Tim Walls offers to

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Speaker 1: meet with voters whose GOP reps refuse to hold town halls.

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Speaker 1: Canceling town halls to avoid voter backlashes the thing you

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Speaker 1: do right before you lose the majority, said one Democratic strategy.

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Speaker 1: Let's not be over confident your team. But Dems are

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Speaker 1: actually and is right. But this is a really good point.

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Speaker 1: Flood the zone with facts. Flood the zone with facts.

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Speaker 1: The only way to counter flooding the zone with the

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Speaker 1: bs is flooding the zone with facts. And doing this

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Speaker 1: when it comes to these town halls is really good.

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Speaker 1: Like Democrats can be where Republicans won't be, and that's

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Speaker 1: the only way they're going to get their message though,

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Speaker 1: because remember the problem is not what the democratic messages,

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Speaker 1: or maybe it is, but Really, the problem is that

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Speaker 1: Democrats message is not getting through because what is getting

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Speaker 1: through is the lies and obfuscation from the Republican side.

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Speaker 1: Stuart Stevens is a legendary campaign manager and the author

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Speaker 1: of the Conspiracy to End America Five Ways My old

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Speaker 1: Party is driving our democracy to autocracy. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: fast politics. Stuart Stevens, right, smally anything going on? No, nothing.

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Speaker 1: There was so many times during the day I'm like,

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Speaker 1: how the fuck do we have vacuate?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think we had with Trump a collapse

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Speaker 3: of a center right party in America. So you don't

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Speaker 3: have a center right party in America. They're saying the

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Speaker 3: country is at least half center right. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 3: completely upsets the balance. I think Trump's election has been

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Speaker 3: greatly misunderstood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh good, I would like to understand.

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Speaker 3: An election day, the COUMBA president had a forty percent

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Speaker 3: approval rating. In modern politics, no one has ever gotten

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Speaker 3: over two points higher. Incombent party's never gotten more than

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Speaker 3: two points higher than approval rating. The right track was

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Speaker 3: twenty seven percent. No incombent party's ever won with it

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Speaker 3: below forty five. It was a perfect environdent for a challenger,

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Speaker 3: and we know from polls six cent we know anything

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Speaker 3: from polls that another challenger Nikki Haley or lean young

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Speaker 3: Kin would have done better than Trump. Trump won was

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Speaker 3: usually as a challenger. That's not to be confused with

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Speaker 3: an embrace of trump Ism. And you know, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think this is how people end up worst of

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Speaker 3: being volcanos. There's the draft of volcano Belch as it ranged,

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Speaker 3: and the next thing you know, you're throwing virgins into

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Speaker 3: the volcano gud. The two are not related. And I

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Speaker 3: think that they knew that Project twenty twenty five was

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Speaker 3: poisoned from their polling, and now that people were having

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Speaker 3: a drink, it hadn't gotten less toxic. What I find

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Speaker 3: just the most remarkable here is how this party that

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Speaker 3: I was drawn to with Ronald Reagan standing in front

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Speaker 3: of the Berlin Wall. Here on this wall, I'm scorte.

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Speaker 3: The Republican Party is now on the other side of

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Speaker 3: the wall. It is the we should get out of

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Speaker 3: NATO and help rebuild a Warshawa party. And I just

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Speaker 3: don't think anything like this is that I'm or whatever's

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Speaker 3: ever happened in a democracy that the beating heart of

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Speaker 3: the Republican Party was anti Soviet Union, anti communism, staring

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Speaker 3: in Russia, and now it's the beating heart of Putinism

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Speaker 3: and pro Russia.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's funny because it's like I think about

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Speaker 1: the bottle, right, and I think about Alis Slackin. So

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Speaker 1: there is a school of thought which I don't not

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Speaker 1: subscribe to it, but I think it's an oversimplification. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to parse. Right. The biggest problem was, I think,

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Speaker 1: was Joe Biden's complete inability to communicate social media. Mainstream

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Speaker 1: media could not And you know, is that because he's

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Speaker 1: the world's oldest person or is that because he was

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Speaker 1: never a good communicator? Who cares? But that was like

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Speaker 1: the fundamental original sin of how we got where we

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Speaker 1: got in twenty twenty four. But there's a school of

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Speaker 1: thought which thought Harris would be able to connect with

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Speaker 1: the normal, sane Republicans. Right, those are gone. They are

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Speaker 1: Democrats now, right, because the people Trump got to turn out, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just want to revisit, like sort of

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Speaker 1: how to go forward from here? Trump got low propensity voters,

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Speaker 1: he basically told I mean. The great example is the

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Speaker 1: story in the Washington Post last week the woman who

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Speaker 1: voted for him because she thought he would make IVF free.

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Speaker 1: That's like a great example, right, he said lots of

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Speaker 1: different things to lots of different people, promised the world

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Speaker 1: and now they can't get it, which actually happened in

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Speaker 1: Trump one point zero, but because we are the United

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Speaker 1: States of Amnesia, no one remembered. Meanwhile, Harris was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't give you this. I can't do that. That's

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Speaker 1: not how any of this works. Which American voters they

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Speaker 1: don't like that. So here's the question. Democrats decided, we'll

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Speaker 1: embrace Liz Cheneyism. We'll get the sane ones. There are

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Speaker 1: no sane ones. So where do Democrats go from here?

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Speaker 1: Should they be just lying about stuff? Because it worked

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Speaker 1: really well for Trump and the rest of the party

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Speaker 1: seems to be spinning around the drain that way? Where

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Speaker 1: do you go when things have devolved this much?

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Speaker 3: So let's step back. Republican is celebrating because they only

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Speaker 3: lost to eighty six percent of Black voters. Right, they're

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Speaker 3: celebrating because they only lost sixty three percent of Asian Americans,

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Speaker 3: celebrating because they only lost fifty four percent of Hispanics.

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Speaker 3: Usually in politics, we consider losing bad. So the only

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Speaker 3: group with winning are not on college educated white which

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Speaker 3: is the fastest declining group in America two thousand and

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Speaker 3: worked on a boost campaign. You know, we look at polls.

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Speaker 3: It was about sixty percent of the electorate. Now it's

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Speaker 3: thirty eight. It'll be less. So when we finish, I

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Speaker 3: think that there is a lot of confusion. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Trump never won working class voters. You weren't white working

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Speaker 3: class voters. He never won low propensity voters. You weren't

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Speaker 3: white lower propensity voters. And going back to sixteen, I

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Speaker 3: always thought that the voters that he would gain at

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Speaker 3: the lower propensity because of the Muslim stuff, because of

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Speaker 3: Mexico is a bunch of vrapist stuff. All of that

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Speaker 3: that you gained, you would lose in college educated voters,

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Speaker 3: which was happening right up until the Coomi letter. I

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Speaker 3: think it's very instructive in this election to look at say, Virginia,

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Speaker 3: New Jersey, does it I think very legitimate controls in

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Speaker 3: this election. No one was really a campaigning in Virginia

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Speaker 3: or New Jersey. There was no campaign, So where was

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Speaker 3: that trumpet a lot better? And I think that we

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Speaker 3: tend to look at Trump and come to the conclusion

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Speaker 3: that all everything we know about politics is wrong, which

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Speaker 3: to I think is proven to be true. But again,

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Speaker 3: a country that seventy five percent of the people think

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Speaker 3: we're going on the wrong track seventy three percent, that

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Speaker 3: is not a party to embrace a vice president. And look,

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Speaker 3: I think causalities are the hardest thing in politics. But

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Speaker 3: probably in years to come, no one is going to

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Speaker 3: look at this and say, you know, this whole thing

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Speaker 3: of having incombent president resigned in July and going with

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Speaker 3: the vice president, we should keep doing that.

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Speaker 1: No, no, right, And historically that's never worked, you know,

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Speaker 1: like remember the last time that happened where the Democrat

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Speaker 1: resigned and the vice president took over, and it was

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Speaker 1: a fucking disaster too, And it was even there was

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Speaker 1: more time and it was still a disaster. So I

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Speaker 1: think for sure that's absolutely true. I also just wonder,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and then the thing that I feel like

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Speaker 1: we really don't talk about, which we should is this

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Speaker 1: post COVID brain fog, which America really got affected by.

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Speaker 1: But here's my question. So Tuesday, Trump gave a speech

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Speaker 1: and his approval rating was the highest it's ever been

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Speaker 1: for him, which is still low for normal presidents, but

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Speaker 1: high for him. And then right before he went on

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Speaker 1: it sort of ticked down. So now it is again

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Speaker 1: sort of more disapproved than approved, where it's we're in

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Speaker 1: that wrong direction. He's finally almost back to normal. And

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Speaker 1: you know, it took the Ukraine stuff and the tear

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Speaker 1: off stuff and the crashing the Dow stuff to get

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Speaker 1: us here we are six weeks in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know what's really interesting about this is only two

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Speaker 3: presidencies have had a lower favorability for the president one

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Speaker 3: hundred days after his first hundred days versus election day,

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Speaker 3: which makes sense, like I didn't vote for the guy,

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Speaker 3: but I'm going to give him a chance. So at

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Speaker 3: this point Biden had almost fifty percent favorables, Obama had

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Speaker 3: sixty five percent favorables. Even Bush had like I think

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Speaker 3: fifty seven percent favorable with Bush two in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and four. The only two presidency whether this doesn't have

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Speaker 3: was Trump on two pousand and seventeen and Trump today,

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Speaker 3: which I think is actually kind of profound because he's

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Speaker 3: shedding voters. The hardest thing for people in life probably

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Speaker 3: to admit is why I made a mistake, particularly this

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Speaker 3: close to when you made the mistake. You have people

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Speaker 3: who voted for Trump who now are not for Trump,

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Speaker 3: and it usually goes the other way because people like

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Speaker 3: to say that they voted for someone who won. So

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Speaker 3: usually in polling you ask after an election, did you

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Speaker 3: vote for somebody? The person who won is going to

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Speaker 3: do better in that poll than they actually get an

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Speaker 3: election day. That kind of human I want admit I

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Speaker 3: voted for a loser. I think that's a really profound trend.

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Speaker 3: None of this gets away from the fact that the

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party has two problems. It doesn't have a message

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Speaker 3: and it doesn't have a messenger. But I think both

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Speaker 3: of those are pretty easily fixable. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: talent in the party is needed somebody to emerge. We

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Speaker 3: didn't have a process of a primary and which other

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Speaker 3: people could be both. I mean, thinking about it, in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and four, jar and Kerry lost to President

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Speaker 3: cyber Barack Obama won it with the speech, and we

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Speaker 3: didn't have a similar sort of process here. We're a

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Speaker 3: very personality driven country. I mean, there's reason People magazine

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Speaker 3: has more subscribers than Foreign Affairs. And what's really necessarious

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Speaker 3: for a new group of Democrats emerges the face of

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Speaker 3: the party, which I don't know who picks flocking, But

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Speaker 3: that's not a bad start. I'll take the CIA over

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Speaker 3: against the Russian age.

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Speaker 1: But do you think that slocking sort of CIA you

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Speaker 1: mention Republican presidents. Do you think that's the play? Like,

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Speaker 1: do you wonder if there really is sort of like

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Speaker 1: if it's better to try and go for the Democratic base. Like,

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Speaker 1: for example, there's this theory of the case that the

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Speaker 1: original sin was rejecting burning that had the party said,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is what a lot of the voters

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Speaker 1: seem to want, and even though it makes the donors nervous,

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Speaker 1: let's just try it out because this is what they want, right,

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Speaker 1: Like it's such a stark contrast to Trump. Right, this

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Speaker 1: is what the base wants. We don't want it, but

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Speaker 1: it's the base ergo, we're fucked. But Bernie, they were like,

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Speaker 1: shut it down, this is not for us. Makes everyone nervous.

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Speaker 1: No one wants to have free dental care. Right, So

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Speaker 1: do you think the original sin here, and this is

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Speaker 1: a real question and not a set of fake question,

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Speaker 1: is that reject of the populist movement in the party

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Speaker 1: for a Hillary Clinton sort of more manufactured populism that

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Speaker 1: people didn't really want like and again this sucks for me. Right,

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Speaker 1: they weren't feminists. It turns out they were just populous.

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Speaker 1: Bernie had a groundswell of people who decided he was

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Speaker 1: their guy. Hillary was I'm with her, you're with her.

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Speaker 1: You know. It was a little bit different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, there are a lot of different ways than

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Speaker 3: women tolection. I mean, if nothing else, you look at

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Speaker 3: the way Trump ran and one is very different than

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Speaker 3: the way we as Republicans had won before. We would

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Speaker 3: take reasonable big state governors and run them and they

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Speaker 3: would be able to get you know, Bush in two

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Speaker 3: thousand four is able to get a majority. So trum

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Speaker 3: comes along. He's the exact applicant table to the majority. So

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Speaker 3: I think it's very difficult to say if this had happened,

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Speaker 3: it would have been a disaster. We don't know the

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Speaker 3: quality of the candidate. Once you received a nomination, I

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Speaker 3: think you become a different candidate. So what would Burnie

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Speaker 3: have been like after different candidate? You know? I mean

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Speaker 3: I first saw Bernie when I was at Middlebury and

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Speaker 3: I was riding my bike down Church Street in Burlington.

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Speaker 3: Are scholaris limitic out there the only about rint control

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Speaker 3: who's running from mayor, and I was Bernie when he

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Speaker 3: won by eight votes. He won't eight votes. So I've

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Speaker 3: always found in a fascinating character. I think in the

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Speaker 3: long term, though, if you asked me where to put money,

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Speaker 3: I'll put money on the slockin. I think that it

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Speaker 3: is more the fact that she has I think a

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Speaker 3: higher ceiling, the ability to appeal to more people that

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Speaker 3: message fuck and Shapiro. I think that is sort of

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Speaker 3: an old fashioned way to win elections.

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Speaker 1: Here's this seventy percent in the middle, that is what

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Speaker 1: you're saying.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't even know what the middle is anymore.

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Speaker 3: You know, Bernie Standers is to the right of the

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Speaker 3: Republican Party on Russia, right. You know, he was honeymoon

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Speaker 3: in Russia, but he didn't like stay there, right, So

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Speaker 3: I don't know what to do with these numbers. We're

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Speaker 3: the pro tariff party, so the Conservatives and economic theory

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Speaker 3: now or the Democrats, they were like what the fuck.

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Speaker 3: I do think that the Democratic Party has an underappreciation

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Speaker 3: for cultural wars, which is why as a Republican we

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Speaker 3: want a lot of races. We had no business winning,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that the Harris Caanby never responded to

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Speaker 3: this transgender ad. This is a curious fact that we

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Speaker 3: don't talk about it. I know Trump never ran a

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Speaker 3: positive ad.

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Speaker 1: Right, It's so much about responding to everything, communicating as

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Speaker 1: much as possible, and not necessarily what you say. Like

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Speaker 1: one the worries I have when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: leadership in the House is that there's still an obsession

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Speaker 1: with getting the message right. And I don't think that

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Speaker 1: fucking matters. Like I think if we can learn anything

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Speaker 1: from Trump, it's that it's just getting the message out

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Speaker 1: and get the message out in a way that you

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Speaker 1: didn't have to ten years ago. Like you can't just

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Speaker 1: do five interviews, you have to do fifty or one

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Speaker 1: hundred or five hundred.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 3: The road to hell is paved with focus groups in politics,

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Speaker 3: because there's this belief that somehow you can get, as

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Speaker 3: Roger ray Hills used to say, he get thirty amateurs

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Speaker 3: in a room that you're professionals what to do. It's

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Speaker 3: based upon this sort of political alchemist theory, if you

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Speaker 3: just worked this enough out of this you can get

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Speaker 3: some sort of golden message. And there is no golden message.

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Speaker 3: I think ninety percent of message is belief in that message,

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Speaker 3: which is why there is Bernie is so good. Bernie

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Speaker 3: does believe this shit he believed forty years ago, I

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Speaker 3: believe it today. He is a genuine guy. And I

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Speaker 3: think that that passion people read through. And I mean

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Speaker 3: Trump is a passionate hater, not an act. I think

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Speaker 3: the JD Vance it's all kind of more of an

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Speaker 3: act because I think he's such a sort.

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Speaker 1: Of I mean, I don't know what is going on there,

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Speaker 1: but like the fact that he has sort of lucked

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Speaker 1: his way into this insane situation. It does seem like

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Speaker 1: few people are less charming and charismatic than that man.

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Speaker 3: He's a Chauncey Gardner of current politics.

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Speaker 1: Unbelievable. What do you think would happen if he became president?

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Speaker 3: I think he would be president and he would run

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Speaker 3: for re election and he would lose the primary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I think too, because for.

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Speaker 3: Him to be president when Trump had somehow been exited

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Speaker 3: from a scene.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have any of the magic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he doesn't. You would be able to get what

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Speaker 3: you get with Trump with someone else who is sort

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Speaker 3: of not crazy. And when dance is on the ballot.

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Speaker 3: He had four in two thousand, few votes than the

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Speaker 3: Republican governor of Ohio. That's really weird. I mean, he's

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Speaker 3: four hundred thousand people voted. Just think about it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's a really long line you line up for in

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Speaker 3: a thousand people, and they all they would both that

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Speaker 3: they voted for the Republican governor, but not discouch an

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Speaker 3: events that doesn't appen very are And I think the

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Speaker 3: Advance is just a mess. I mean, he's a guy

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Speaker 3: that kind of reinvents himself, but he is the ultimate

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Speaker 3: gi candidate because he used to sort of somewhat faux

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Speaker 3: Appalachian hillbilly background to get a d al and then

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Speaker 3: he becomes you know, goes to Peter Thiel, hangs out,

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Speaker 3: he's a globalist. It's just he's a very quixotic, strange,

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Speaker 3: weirdly formed candidate. Erson he goes and gives the speech

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Speaker 3: in Germany to a party that if his own children

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Speaker 3: were brought to a rally, they would probably be booed

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Speaker 3: or attacked at that party. That's weird. There are moments

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Speaker 3: in politics. You see this a lot in presidential campaigns

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Speaker 3: where the only thing you can do is just show

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Speaker 3: up and win, like you know, you've lost their primary

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Speaker 3: should have won, and you can't talk your way out

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Speaker 3: of it and explain why you did. You just have

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Speaker 3: to say, Okay, what's next, Like you know, Belichick played

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Speaker 3: in the next play. And I think that's where where

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Speaker 3: Democrats are now. I think though, that the fundamentals are

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Speaker 3: in their favor. The economy is getting worse. If you

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Speaker 3: look at Putin's favorability, it is not very high, not

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Speaker 3: being driven hired, and a Putin versus Zelensky popularity cond

433
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: just slency's going to win going away. The greatest thanger, though,

434
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: I think, is the damage that they can do in

435
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 3: the interim, and it's just incredibly troubling, and also the

436
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 3: Republican Party.

437
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: Stuart Stevens, thank you, Thank you.

438
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: Mark.

439
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: Will you please come back?

440
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 3: I absolutely love to more.

441
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: Healy is the governor of Massachusetts.

442
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 5: Welcome, Governor, welcome, good to be with you.

443
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: I listened to that interview you did for the Daily.

444
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: I thought there was a lot of barrier Republican framan

445
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: about some of what she was talking about with the

446
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: Attorney's General. So I am hoping you could first start

447
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: by talking about you were an age you now are

448
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: the governor. This has been the root in which Democrats

449
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: have protected their constituents against this wild federal overreach. So

450
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: talk to me about why that isn't a partisan issue.

451
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 5: The job of attorney general is to really represent the

452
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 5: people of your state. And when I was attorney general

453
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen, Donald Trump did a number of things

454
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 5: that hurt a lot of people in states across this country,

455
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 5: taking away healthcare for example, or attempting to in a

456
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 5: denying coverage for any number of things, taking away federal

457
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 5: funding for programs. I mean, we went to court and

458
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 5: ultimately we suit him well over one hundred times his administration.

459
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 5: We won eighty five percent of those cases, which shows

460
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 5: you just how wrong he was and how often he

461
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 5: was actually violating the law that the courts actually vindicated

462
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 5: the AGS and said yep, you're right, and we won

463
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 5: the vast majority of those cases. And those are cases

464
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 5: that needed to be brought because laws were being violated.

465
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 5: Here we are now in twenty twenty five Trump two,

466
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 5: and you see democratic ags doing the same thing, protecting

467
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 5: their residents, protecting their economies, protecting their states from federal

468
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 5: overreach in some instances, and from violation of the law

469
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 5: by the Trump administration. And so I think it's not

470
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 5: a surprise to me that you see them meeting with success.

471
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 5: They are meeting with success, and they're going to continue

472
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 5: to need to do that. And you know, it really

473
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 5: should not be a partisan thing. I think in this country,

474
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 5: the idea of the constitution is that we're a nation

475
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 5: of laws. The judiciary enforces those laws, the legislative brands

476
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 5: makes those laws, and the executive is supposed to execute

477
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 5: on those laws. And when that's not happening, the recourse

478
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 5: is the courts.

479
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, there has been I think a ground swell of

480
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: anger among constituents. It has felt a lot of the

481
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: time like leadership Democratic leadership. Republican leadership is totally in

482
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: the tank for Trump. They've given up all their article

483
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: too whatever, they're just in it. But it has felt

484
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: to a lot of us the Democratic leadership has been

485
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: slow to fight back. That has not been my take

486
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: on you, And I'm hoping you could explain to us

487
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: a little bit about your thinking and how you got here.

488
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 5: Well, you know, Mollie, it's I have a responsibility to

489
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 5: my state. I said from the outset. I will work

490
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 5: with the Trump administration. I will work with any administration

491
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 5: when it is consistent with the law and it helps

492
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 5: the people of my state, so I said a few

493
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 5: weeks ago the inauguration. I also said I'd be the

494
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 5: first to stand up if a president or federal administration

495
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 5: does something that hurts my state. You know, in terms

496
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 5: of where we are, I think the first week it

497
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 5: was maybe about seeing exactly what he would do. I mean,

498
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 5: so much was laid out in twenty twenty five, but

499
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 5: you know, people were sort of gauging whether this was

500
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 5: just going to be a show for a week or

501
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 5: ten days or two weeks. What I have seen, though,

502
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 5: with each passing week, and which is why I have

503
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 5: been speaking up, is he is doing things that are

504
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 5: totally inconsistent with a true America First agenda, Totally inconsistent

505
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 5: with an American independence when it comes to energy agenda,

506
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 5: Totally inconsistent with what I thought was his winning campaign promise,

507
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 5: which he was going to lower cost because every day

508
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 5: he is doing something to raise costs on goods for

509
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 5: people in our state. And so you know, I tried

510
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 5: to focus as a leader in Massachusetts on how am

511
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 5: I delivering for people. It's why my first two years,

512
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 5: I've worked to get the largest housing bill pass so

513
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 5: we can build more housing and lower costs. It's why

514
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 5: I cut taxes. I'm the first governor in twenty years

515
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 5: in Massachusetts to cut taxes. It's why I've expanded child care,

516
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 5: made community college costs free so more people can get

517
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 5: educated and ready for the workforce. And at the same time,

518
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 5: the Trump administration is doing things that interfere with that progress.

519
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: And that hurt us.

520
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 5: And I continue to encourage leadership in Congress to speak up.

521
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 5: Democratic leadership in Congress and democratic leadership in Congress. Frankly,

522
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 5: everybody should be speaking up. I mean, I don't know

523
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 5: about you, but if somebody comes from my power tries

524
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 5: to usurp my power, I'd be pretty upset about that.

525
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 5: Trump has completely usurped Congress's power. And the Republicans are fine,

526
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 5: They're just like, okay, take it, they're giving it away.

527
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 5: But the Democrats got to stand strong on that. They've

528
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 5: also got to talk to and tell the stories of

529
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 5: what's happening to everyday Americans out there every day. They

530
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 5: should be doing that.

531
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't understand why they're not doing daily

532
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: press conferences. The way Cuomo did during the pandemic, just

533
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: narrating what's happening, because if they don't, what we saw

534
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: from the twenty twenty four cycle is Republicans certainly won't.

535
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I do see people like a Brian Shadza,

536
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 5: Chris Murphy. There are people who've been speaking up. I also,

537
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 5: Molly think it's important. I don't need press conferences necessarily

538
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 5: on the Capitol steps. I don't personally think that's affected

539
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 5: and alongside everyday americans in your district. In fact, let

540
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 5: them tell the story of what it means to be

541
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,239
Speaker 5: the person who was responsible for inspecting our medicines or

542
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 5: our milk or or farms, and what it means to

543
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 5: no longer have them in the job. Right, It's got

544
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 5: to be more of that. And I just see everyday

545
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 5: Americans speaking up, and I try to tell everybody when

546
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 5: you see that, share their social media.

547
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean. One of the I think the great

548
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: crimes of the Biden administration was that they did not

549
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: do any interviews for the first two years, and then

550
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: they were like, why can't we get any coverage? And

551
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: it was like, meanwhile, Donald Trump, that White House is

552
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: always a very leaky White House. The media has him

553
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: in there all the time. It strikes me that already

554
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: we're seeing a number of cases where the federal courts

555
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: are coming in and saying this is illegal. Right, Like,

556
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: practically much of doge is. There's no part of the

557
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: constitution where it's like, if the president has a really

558
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: rich donor, he can bring him in to run stuff.

559
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: So a lot of this is illegal. We haven't yet

560
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: quite seen them ignore the courts, but they're certainly we've

561
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: certainly seen jd. Vance muse about it. I heard Governor

562
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: Mills talk about this a little bit. But what do

563
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: we do when because it feels like it's coming where

564
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: Donald Trump says you can't have that FEMA money because

565
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm not happy with the whatever the way you rake

566
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: your forests, or I mean, what happens when he plays

567
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: chicken with money that you paid in.

568
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 5: We absolutely cannot accept that the whole system crumbles if

569
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 5: he does not comply with the law. And people need

570
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 5: to understand, Okay, yes, he's trying to weaponize federal funding

571
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 5: and he's threatened to do that, and in that case,

572
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 5: people need to be out expressing the outrage. Leaning on

573
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 5: congressional Republicans to buck up and take their power back,

574
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 5: because it may be somebody else's district impacted today, but

575
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 5: it could be yours tomorrow and red state, blue state.

576
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 5: How many people are on medicaid in this country? How

577
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 5: many people rely on food assistants or seniors relying on

578
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 5: help paying heating bills, how many people are in vas

579
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 5: These are not Republican Democrat issues. There are people in

580
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 5: red states and blue states similarly situated who are going

581
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 5: to be similarly devastated. Your comment earlier that we've had

582
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 5: successful rulings to stop some of this bad stuff, illegal

583
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 5: stuff from happening, is true. It's also true though, that

584
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 5: the administration is finding ways to slow things down. Okay,

585
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 5: I still from my office. I'm calling on funds that

586
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 5: should have been released that havn't come through. I'm calling

587
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 5: on NIH funding. They haven't even convened the next panel

588
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 5: to study to approve the next pipeline of NIH funding,

589
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 5: and so that effectively shuts down research. So it's important

590
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 5: to bring those cases and enforce the law. People also

591
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 5: need to know there is real time heard happening. Look

592
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 5: at the Federal workers right, My dad was one. He

593
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 5: was chief of water supply for EPA for many years.

594
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 5: I got a guy out in Springfield, mass He runs

595
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 5: the VA center out there. Four time deployed in Iraq, Afghanistan,

596
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 5: combat veteran fired. A third of federal workforce is fired.

597
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 5: So even though you know rulings are out there saying

598
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 5: they can't be fired and what they did was wrong,

599
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 5: you still have had. What are we up to now,

600
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 5: Seventy eighty thousand people leave the workforce a political career,

601
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 5: folks who we need. So people just need to be

602
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 5: both educated about what's happening right now and then speaking

603
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 5: up because I don't know, well, you know, plenty of

604
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 5: people voted for Trump thinking that he was going to

605
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 5: ower their costs. I don't think they voted for him

606
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 5: thinking that Elon Musk was going to be running around

607
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 5: with a chainsaw and a bunch of nineteen twenty year

608
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 5: old rose looking at all our data, taking all our

609
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 5: bank account information, and figuring out a way that they

610
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 5: could potentially manipulate that to their business advantage.

611
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: Nobody knows right, nobody knows what DOGE is doing right.

612
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: It's a black box. There's no transparency. We saw a website.

613
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: It had some stuff a lot of it wasn't accurate.

614
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: Is there any way to stop dog because, like it

615
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: does strike me as we're hurtling towards inadvertent privacy data

616
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: disaster here totally.

617
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 5: As a former attorney general, we used to go after

618
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 5: companies that engaged in the kind of wholesale data breach

619
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 5: that the Trump administration has essentially allowed. Right, So it's

620
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 5: kind of ironic. The lack of protections or security that

621
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 5: are in place is really really disturbing. I think a

622
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 5: couple things. One, yes, it's got to be gated. These

623
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 5: people are unelected and they are doing things that they

624
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 5: were not given authority by Congress to do. So it's

625
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 5: got to be stopped in the courts. It's also got

626
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 5: to be stopped in the court of public opinion. So

627
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 5: every day when they have to remove another item from

628
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 5: the so called wall of receipts because it's bogus and

629
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 5: made up, there's making up numbers of savings. That's got

630
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 5: to be called out. Alongside that, the continued telling of

631
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 5: the destruction. Look, I'm all for efficiency and government, you know,

632
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 5: I'm all for In fact, I used to prosecute cases

633
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 5: of fraud, waste and abuse. Okay, we all want more efficiency.

634
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 5: Taxpayers deserve to have their dollars, you know, maximized, right,

635
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 5: But you don't destroy it. You don't just just just

636
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 5: take a wrecking ball to it, which is what this

637
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 5: really is. From planes falling out of the sky, to

638
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 5: nobody being home for a little bit at the nuclear stockpile,

639
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 5: to doctors being let go from VA hospitals, like this

640
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 5: is bad. It does not make America stronger. It does

641
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 5: not make us more independent. And like I say, to

642
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 5: go back to the medical research, which, by the way,

643
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 5: the government after World War II decided they were going

644
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 5: to invest in research and science and from that sprang

645
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 5: forth all sorts of entrepreneurship, business, world saving cures and treatments.

646
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 4: Right.

647
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 5: They want to stop all of that, and they want

648
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 5: to give it all away to China. Right now, who's

649
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 5: recruiting to take all of that business back to China.

650
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 5: It doesn't make any sense. I want America to remain

651
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 5: the greatest superpower on Earth and the world depends on that.

652
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 5: So I don't understand that Molly.

653
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: The NIH Fund, just because there was you know, Eline

654
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: cooked up this idea that it was going to cut

655
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: indirect funding to fifteen versent. It wasn't a brilliant I mean,

656
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: this person has never had anyone around him who has

657
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: ever told him the truth Like that was what was

658
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: so clear to make. And you know, the indirect funding,

659
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: the way it works is that some times it's as

660
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: much as sixty five percent, but it goes to the institution.

661
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: You have a lot of those said institutions in your state, Harvard, mit.

662
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: So first of all, it was the court put a

663
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: pause on it said that they could go back, but

664
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: the money has not gone back. Right, They're still himming

665
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: in hawing with the grant money, right.

666
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 5: That's right, and they're not allowing new pots of money

667
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 5: to be you know, discussed in studies and set up

668
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 5: for a future pipeline. Here's why this is really important

669
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 5: and what people have got to understand. We're talking about

670
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 5: three and a half billion dollars for the state of Massasachusetts.

671
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 5: It's going to our teaching hospitals, our research institutions, our

672
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 5: universities to fund postdocs who right now are discovering the

673
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 5: cure for cancer, for Alzheimer's, for Parkinson's, for als. And

674
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 5: what the Trump administration and what NIH has done is

675
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 5: say we're cutting that off, and we're not giving you

676
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 5: that funding. Now, let me tell you about end quote

677
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 5: indirect costs. This is a to me nomenclature and semantics.

678
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 5: At the end of the day, when you support indirect funds,

679
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 5: you were supporting that. That's research. You can't do research

680
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 5: without a lab. You can't run experiments in computing without electricity.

681
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 5: We're talking about eggs lately a lot. Right, If we

682
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 5: want eggs in this country, do businesses just pay for

683
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 5: the hen No, they pay for the feed and the

684
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 5: lighting and the barn and whatever. Right, Like, you need

685
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 5: to invest in the entirety of these things in order

686
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 5: to be able to actually have something from that. And

687
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 5: with NIH funding, so much has happened in science as

688
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 5: a result. And here's the thing, Mollie, do you know

689
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 5: how many red so called red states. And I don't

690
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 5: like the red state blue state naming, but Alabama, for example,

691
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 5: NIH funds to the point where it is the largest

692
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 5: employer in the state of Alabama. Texas has got really

693
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 5: important research happening. This is a big deal. It's bad

694
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 5: for all our states. It's bad for American competitiveness because again,

695
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 5: I want America to be the place of invention. And

696
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 5: where redesign and develop the cures and the treatments. And

697
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 5: you know what kills me the most? And I don't

698
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 5: care Democrat, Republican who you are. You mean to say

699
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 5: right now that it's a good thing that NIH and

700
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 5: the Trump administration have cut funding and research off. They

701
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 5: could cut research off for the cure that God forbid,

702
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 5: your little kid gets cancer, right or your parent gets Alzheimer's.

703
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 5: That makes no sense. I'm hoping that there can be

704
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 5: more alignment around that. I'm hoping that there can be

705
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 5: a greater apprehension about how the system works, how important

706
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 5: it has been, how much industry has sprung from it

707
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 5: in innovation in this country, and what it has contributed

708
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 5: to GDP And to say nothing of the lives saved

709
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 5: and that is happening in all states with NIH funding.

710
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: No, it's just wild. I mean, it just is sort

711
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: of mind blowing. And if you find that the federal

712
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: government plays check in with money, I mean, what are

713
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: you willing to sort of do to really fight back

714
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: on a federal level when it comes to Trump world

715
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: sort of terrorizing states that it feels mad at.

716
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 5: Of course I'll fight back. Of course I'll stand up

717
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 5: I'll stand up for my state. I'll stand up for

718
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 5: my residents. I'll stand up for our businesses. I'll stand

719
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 5: up for our economy. I was trying to have this

720
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 5: conversation with the Trump administration about wind for example. This

721
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 5: is an administration that's been all about haven't we heard

722
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 5: America energy independence? Well, it seems to me if that's

723
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 5: really what you believe, then you shouldn't take solar off

724
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 5: the table. You can have oil and gas, But why

725
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 5: are you taking solar off the table, which is deployed

726
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 5: in the states around including many red states around the country.

727
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 5: Why are you taking away that energy source? Why are

728
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 5: you killing the wind industry which right now is powering

729
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 5: homes off the coast of Massachusetts with its windmills, and

730
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 5: we've got others and deployment. By the way, talk about

731
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 5: an economic impact in Massachusetts alone, Molly, We've got nineteen

732
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 5: hundred contracts in forty one states related to the wind industry.

733
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 5: These are jobs, labor jobs, construction jobs, all of which

734
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 5: goes away if the Trump administration takes away the wind industry.

735
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 5: You know, they're making the steal for our stuff. In Kentucky,

736
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 5: they're making the ships for our stuff in Louisiana, Texas,

737
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 5: like it has such a big effect, and like I

738
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 5: want lower costs, and one way to have lower energy

739
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 5: cost is you're bringing more energy online. So why would

740
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 5: you take away something that can be a huge value

741
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 5: add to energy independence for this country. I'll fight back.

742
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 5: I'm trying to explain impact and consequence and to encourage

743
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 5: people to do that because Congress has got to act.

744
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 5: Congress has got to step up and act, and I

745
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 5: don't think that they're going to do that unless they

746
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 5: hear the pain and the plight of every day America

747
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 5: and saying, hey, this isn't what I signed up for.

748
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 5: It's hurting me.

749
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: Thank you, Governor. Good to be with you. No moment

750
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: set Jesse CANNONBALLI junk fast.

751
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: I think one of the funny things a lot of

752
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: people will always think about is like, will the corporations

753
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: come to our defense? Will the people who are invested

754
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 2: in our economy come to the people's defense?

755
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 4: And we're starting to see it.

756
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: I was shocked, as somebody who reads marketing emails and

757
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: lets some of them get in my path, how many

758
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 2: emails I got this week from big companies saying we're

759
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: not raising our prices yet, but Target CEO Streams said

760
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: you'll pay more because of Trump's tariffs within days.

761
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: So I want to point out here that the billionaire's

762
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: elon Jeff Bezos, that crew was more than happy to

763
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: kiss the rang because they thought it made good business sense.

764
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: But now that these companies realize that this is going

765
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: to be bad for business, they're becoming honest Again. Do

766
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 1: I think that these people are doing this because they

767
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: love us and want to see us healthy. No, they

768
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: don't give a fuck about us. It is more that

769
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: these corporations don't want to be blamed for downsides. They

770
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: want to protect their bottom line. They know, if you're

771
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: the Target CEO, you want to make money for your shareholders.

772
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: You know that making things more expensive for no reason

773
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: is going to decrease value for your shareholders. You're going

774
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: to make less money because things are going to be

775
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: more expensive and people aren't going to spend as much.

776
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: So they are trying to get Trump to change his mind.

777
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: And now we're watching this parade of people trying to

778
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: get Trump to change his mind. The problem is Trump

779
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: is not thoughtful or sensible. He doesn't respond. One of

780
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: the things you saw with Biden administration, even if you

781
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: don't like them, when people wanted them to do something,

782
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 1: they could get them to do it. So a great

783
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: example is like there was this bank that all the

784
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: tech bros were invested in. It crashed. Everybody put pressure

785
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: on them to save this bank. They save the bank.

786
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: Do I think that they should have saved the bank?

787
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: I don't fucking know. But the point was that were

788
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: very responsive to things. So if you said stuff to them,

789
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: they sort of understood, here's Trump. This is a totally

790
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: stupid idea. Everyone in the world thinks it's stupid. I'm

791
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: not sure you could find five people who think tariffs

792
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: are a good idea, but you can find one, and

793
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: that one is called Donald Trump. Now everyone in the

794
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 1: world is going to try to get him to change

795
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: his mind. You know, now already there are carveouts for

796
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: car companies and they're going to be more carve outs.

797
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: But you know, the markets are rallying back, so maybe

798
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: they think that, you know, he delayed the car tariff.

799
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: People are taking whatever little bits they're hoping Trump will

800
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: change his mind. And you know, we heard Howard Lutnix

801
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: say maybe he will, maybe he won't. I mean the

802
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: instability is bad for the market and a whole, but

803
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: they're trying to be very optimistic. What I think is

804
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: so incredibly annoying about this tariff stuff is that this

805
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: market is desperate to give Donald Trump the benefit of

806
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: the damn right, Like they really want him to be

807
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: good for the market. Like if a Democrat did this

808
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, the market would just crater. But they

809
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: just somehow like trickle down. These people so want trickle

810
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: down economics to work.

811
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: I compared it the other night to rooting for your

812
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 2: perpetual drunk driving Fred when he walks up to the

813
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 2: bar that the bartender suddenly drops dead and they can't

814
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 2: serve them.

815
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's where we are.

816
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: That's about the odds are of it going.

817
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, there we go. That's it for this episode

818
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and

819
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense

820
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please

821
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

822
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.