WEBVTT - Pica: Dirt for Dinner 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:06.720 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:13.800 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.160 My name is Robert Lamp and I'm Julie Techlass. Julie, 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.279 When you were a kid, did you ever make mud pies? Yeah? 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.400 Do you remember any of your recipes? Um? I just 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:26.680 remember an ordinate amount of them because it was rural Michigan, right, 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.000 so there wasn't a lot to do um at that time, 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.040 and so I just remember making them by the side 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.800 of the house and I used my hands mostly to 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.839 shape them though. Cool. Yeah, yeah, we we did as well, 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.240 me and my sister's we there was a faucet behind 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.680 the house. There's like a concrete slab back there for 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.080 some reason, and then just dirt, so we would, uh, 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.200 you know, we'd add some water to the to the dirt, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:54.120 create mud, pack that mud into pie tins and also 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.000 many pie tins, and then you you leave them out 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.640 there on the slab, they bake, they dry, they become 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.440 delicious pies, and that's when you cut a slice and 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.560 you eat it, right, you know. I don't know if 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.880 I ever did, but I was the older of the kids, 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:12.280 and it's entirely possible that the my younger siblings ate 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.440 some of the mud pies. And you know what, that's 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.600 not probably a surprise to any parent, because all parents 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:19.080 know that at some point their kid is going to 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.679 be chomping on something, some sort of non food item 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:26.400 that they shouldn't be. But it turns out that dirt eating, 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.560 which is called pikea, which is actually a lot more 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.640 than dirt eating, is so much more common than anybody 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.840 has ever really realized, also known as geophagy. If you 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:41.800 want to get fancier, that's pretty fancy. So we've talked 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.240 about the benefits of premastication and regurgitation and other podcasts, 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.080 so we thought, we know what, why not talk about 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.120 dirt eating because it's kind of fascinating stuff. Yeah, Now, 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.200 from a very broad viewpoint, there's nothing really that weird 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.720 about it. I mean, there are organisms that eat minerals. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.800 The mineral crunching bacteria for instance, um exists. And then 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:03.440 just in any diet, I mean, what do you think 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.800 you're doing when you put salt on something. You're adding 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.040 a little mineral to your diet. It's it's not crazy. Um. Likewise, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.120 the various medications that we take have some sort of 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.240 mineral component too, So there's nothing just off the wall 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:22.280 nuts about eating dirt, eating minerals, eating essentially rocks. Yeah, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.960 and you've probably even witnessed your dog or cat eating 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.160 something that's a non food item, especially dogs, especially dogs. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.239 In fact, you might have even witness phyto chopping down 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.800 on a chunk of poo before, right, Yeah, especially cat, 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:40.000 this happens. It's called corpor fagia, and it actually means 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.640 that your dog could have a vitamin deficiency or even 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.720 a touch of O C D. And this is something 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.720 we're going to talk about more in humans later. Um, 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.120 But before we really kind of get into the meat 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.400 of this or the dirt of it, let's talk a 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:57.840 bit about what it is. UM. How it's characterized picka 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.280 is actually comes from the Latin word for magpie, since 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:05.399 the magpie bird will eat just about anything, and it's 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:10.720 been thought of as a physiological eating disorder. And as 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.160 you have noted, it's also called geo foggia or earth eating. 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.920 And in humans it's mainly pregnant women and pre adolescent 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:23.000 children who exhibit pica eating behavior. And again, when we 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.640 talk about pica, it's most associated with dirt, but it 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.040 can be a lot of different things. It can be clay, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.440 it can be starch. Yeah, I mean I was looking 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.040 at some some reports. We're talking about ice. Uh, pregnant 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:38.280 women that experiencing pica, and half of them are eating ice, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.200 which is pago foggia, which is different. I mean eating 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.920 a bunch of ices. You're just drinking a lot of water, 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.080 except with more crunch, right. Yeah. And some people say 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:49.760 that it's a texture thing and it can be a 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.120 stress thing when it comes time soothing on the tongue 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.160 and all that. Now with with children, obviously, children, very 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.280 young children will try and eat just about anything. That's 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.640 why you don't give them micro machine to play with. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.120 That's why you you limit things in their environment. They 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.800 can go down their mouth throughout their nose, because it's 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.520 just part of the testing out their environment. What can 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.480 I eat, what can I not? What goes fits up 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.400 my nose, what doesn't quite fit up my nose? Yeah. 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.200 But then there's this other little section um that kind 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.880 of veers off into other territory, and it's more about 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.440 compulsive eating, and that's where you see very unusual non 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:28.400 food items. So we're talking about cigarette ashes, toothpicks, athletic socks, 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.039 dust balloons, paint chips, hair, and burnt matches. Oh yeah, 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.640 the heroines big you do see that. Yeah, And depending 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.159 on the item that's being eaten pick it could lead 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.800 to health problems like lead poisoning from the paint chips 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.040 or constipation from starch or clay in take because everything 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.200 in moderation. Don't go out and eat just a whole 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.400 lot of pizza, don't go out and drink in a 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.400 xominant amount of water. And if you're going to eat 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.040 gym socks, keep it down there like one or two 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.120 pairs tops. All right, let's see that's the problem, right, 0:04:58.120 --> 0:04:59.960 If you're eating gym socks is probably because you have 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.320 compulsion to do so something. Yeah, there's it's a psychological 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.680 disorder at that point. Yeah. So this podcast is really 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:07.560 going to talk about two different aspects of pick A. 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.080 One is more sort of the cultural aspects and the 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.240 nutritive aspects, and the other is going to be more 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.200 of the psychological and sort of the compulsion aspect of it. 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.040 But I did want to mention that pica has been 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.680 around for a long time. The first written account of 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.960 human geophagey comes from Hippocrates more than two thousand years ago, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.440 so we've been eating dirt for quite some time. And 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.479 I've also read accounts, um, and I don't know to 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.560 what degree they were accurate now that I think about them, 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.840 but you at least find stories in which individuals are 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:44.359 so hungry that to set to satisfy their hunger on 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.839 some level, they will eat non food items. And certainly 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:48.800 there have been plenty of times where food items have 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.560 been panned out, like during the Second World War, there 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.919 were times when they would add uh, say wood shavings, um, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.800 sawdust to uh to say flower or something, you know, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.440 and it's not really food item, but you can sort 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.960 of try and make your food stretched a little a 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.160 little farther. By doing that, you're right in filling up 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.279 your belly. Right, So if you eat a bunch of clay, 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.880 then maybe that can stem off your your hunger for 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.160 a little while. Um. So let's talk about the cultural 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.359 aspect of this, because in some cultures, both inside and 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.000 outside the United States, it really is not uncommon for say, 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.360 women to consume clay or dirt during pregnancy, and that's 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.039 where we most associate pica. And it's interesting, I didn't 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.480 find any sources that really went into this. But by 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.919 the mere fact that you see pregnant women engaging in it, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.320 I feel like there's a huge amount of sexism in 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:41.719 our cultural history with pica because women are the ones 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.680 that are are eating it, and they're doing so on 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.560 they're pregnant, and so in many cultures, I mean, you 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.200 you can easily imagine it being explained away as oh, 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.599 it's crazy pregnant ladies. Of course they're going to do 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:59.160 crazy things. Um, Whereas as as we're discussing, there are 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.520 a number of other possibilities at work here beyond just 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:07.440 mere madness. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it is an aspect 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:11.520 of cultural bonding that that women, pregnant women will eat 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.160 clay or some other substance because it's what's done in 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.440 that community, and there's this idea that it could save 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.840 off symptoms of pregnancy like nausea. And then sometimes it 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.920 has to do with vitamin deficiencies, which we'll talk about 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.280 a little bit more. Uh. Yeah, but certainly you have 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.520 a culture aspect. It's just one huge part there. If 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.040 you're if you're in an environment in a culture where 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.400 it is accepted that the consuming clay or some sort 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.520 of mineral during this time is beneficial and okay, then 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.440 obviously you're gonna go for it, whereas in other areas 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.920 it's going to be basically a taboo. It's just gonna 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.640 be you know, it's who eats dirt? Yeah, it's kind 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.760 of like, what what is that cultural norm there? Right? So, 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.600 if you're in ken, you are you gonda? Dirt eating 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.160 is not going to be so weird because it could 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.480 be used in ceremonial or religious practices. But then half 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.480 a world away, somebody else is bringing their own cultural 0:07:58.480 --> 0:07:59.960 bias to it and they're saying, whoa, look at these 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.520 backwards people in this backwards country eating dirt like moron. 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.560 But they're just because they have their cultural blinders on, 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.920 they don't realize that it is essentially a normal act. Yeah, 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.200 let me share this historical tidbit with you because I 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.520 think it's really interesting. Um. In Psychology Today's Brain Sense column, 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.480 it's pointed out that clay eating and soil eating were 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.560 common in the eight hundreds, especially among slaves in the 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.680 American South, and then in the fifties and sixties, the 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.880 practice was so popular that clay filled lunch bags were 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.920 sold at Alabama bus stops for snacks as travelers and 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.280 Southerners would male bags of hometown clay to their friends 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.520 and relatives who moved north, and in some reports estimate 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.160 that clay eating is a daily practice in over two 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:47.520 hundred cultures worldwide. Well, you know, there's something perhaps in 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.559 a psychological and almost magical thinking level, where like the 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.520 the earth that you were from, you would want to 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.360 engage with it like it I mean also reminds me 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:02.960 of a Dracula. When Dracula moved um to London from Transylvania, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.360 he had his native dirt shipped with him because he 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.760 needed that dirt to really to be I mean, that 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:11.520 was his home. He had to bring a chunk of 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:13.600 his home with And of course we all do that 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.640 when we travel. We want to bring a piece not 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.000 the dirt necessarily the grave dirt, but we bring a 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.400 piece of the place we were with us, you know. 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.520 Well yeah, and and depending on the area that you're in, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.960 you're going to have a different content in terms of 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:30.079 minerals and other things that could potentially be helpful to someone. 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.719 We'll talk more about that later. Oh yeah, it kind 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.280 of comes right back around into some of the discussions 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.040 you hear involving, say, the consumption of local honey to 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:44.000 deal with local pathoges. You know, the the idea that 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:45.960 that you were essentially a local being and the more 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.840 you consume locally, the more in tune within with the 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.280 local ecosystem you're going to be. So this is a 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:56.040 story really about how widespread and common it is. In fact, um, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.280 you know, the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.640 decided that pica couldn't be considered abnormal because it was 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.520 so widespread and because it was associated with cultural practice 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.520 practices as opposed to uh, you know, some sort of 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.720 O C D behavior. Now the question becomes, well, what's 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:20.839 the deal with eating things that are non nutritive or 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.800 outside of the cultural norm that don't have anything to 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.920 do with cultural practices or religious practices? For instance, like 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.960 what's the deal with eating something like toilet paper? Um? 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.160 Where does where does that all fit into this? Because 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.040 this is under the heading of pica, right, and that 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.160 the Japanese diet, the Jinnameroni was on. She could eat 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.440 all these she could eat all the the tissue paper 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.280 or just paper I think she wanted. But you can 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.880 only eat paper. That's right, that's right. Um. So other 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:52.280 than in pregnant women, chronic pica or this kind of um, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.120 you know, outside of again the cultural norm, pica is 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.719 most common in people with developmental disabilities, including including autism. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.400 This in children, UM and typically the children are between 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.560 the ages of two and three when this begins to surface. 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.000 Pica also may surface in children who have had a 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.360 brain injury affecting their development. And according to Kids Health, 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.160 between ten and thirty percent of kids ages one to 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.400 six years have the eating disorder of pica. And again, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:26.200 this is characterized by persistent and compulsive cravings that last 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.600 for one month or longer to eat these non food items. 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.000 So naturally, if you have this compulsion to eat things 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.240 that are not food, it can reak havoc on your 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.760 digestive system. And there's there's actually been an uptick in this, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.719 Yeah's a huge one that's studied by the Agency for 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.680 Healthcare Research and Quality found that hospitalizations for pica in 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.320 a ten year span jumped n That is huge. So 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.680 what happens that people are hospitalized for a laundry list 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.280 of problems, including obstruction of the bowel or airways from 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.200 consuming or choking on stuff like hair, high blood pressure, 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.800 high levels of sodium salts in the blood, and abnormal 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:08.080 liver functions because of consuming huge quantities of something like 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:12.480 baking powder. So again, the list of Pika items is. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:14.840 You know, you'll get some lists than their twenty items 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.680 long thirty items long, and they range anywhere from like 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.319 you know, chalk again, hair, you know, chumping, chomping on 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.120 match sticks or yeah, or people trying to get into 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.520 the Guinness Book. There. You have a certain subset of 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.920 people who are always trying to do things like can 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.839 I pass an entire toy train through my digestive system 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.480 piece by piece? So they'll take something big, take it up. 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.400 I think people have done this with cars before, their ideas. 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.720 Can I consume a car piece by piece and pass 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.959 it through my body? Does it come out altogether on 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.240 the other end, Yeah, it just naturally comes out whole. 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.520 I don't know how they do it, but I mean 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.520 maybe it's sort of a sense of power in that. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.800 It's like, like you're not so tough, Folkswagen. I can 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.280 eat you in small pieces, but I can still eat you. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.520 I don't know. When I hear at things like that. 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.560 I always think that that's one of those things where 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.240 you feel like you have a measure of control over 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.079 your life, right, So everything else could be spiling, spiraling 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:09.920 out of control, and then you begin to obsess on 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.439 this one thing that you can control. So it's sort 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.560 of interesting and that if you look at um pica 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.320 and you look at it in the O C D spectrum, 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.760 very well maybe related to that, especially because they've taken 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.840 studies of people with pica and they've given them they've 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.839 given them the S s R eyes the serotonin uptake inhibitors, right, 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.480 that helps you balance out the serotonin in your brain. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.560 These are largely a class of antidepressants, and they have 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.160 found that that is really effective for people with pica, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.240 helps to curb their behaviors or their compulsions to do this. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.520 So there's this idea that it is existing on that 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.520 that spectrum. All right, we're gonna take a quick break 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.640 and when we come back, we're going to press on 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.920 with with dirt eating, with mineral eating and uh and 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.440 some of the the the vitamin deficiency elements of this. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:08.719 All right, we're back, and uh, you know, as we 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:14.079 mentioned earlier, eating dirt eating things that are essentially the earth. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.800 Are not that crazy when you think about the fact 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.440 that we put salt in our food. We use various 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.800 minerals in our cooking and in our medication, So we're 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.760 doing it. Everyone is doing some of this anyway, perhaps 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:29.000 just in a more elegant fashion. Well, I think about 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.120 stomach upset, right. Are you familiar with kaopect tape? Yes? Okay, Well, 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.160 that has something called kalin in it, and kalin is 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.640 really helpful. It's in clay and it can combat diarrhea 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.280 because it forms a protective coating in the lining of 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.400 the intestine and binds bacteria there. So in some parts 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.880 of Nigeria you see people eating this kaleon night as 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.080 kind of clay. Yeah, the idea that you're eating this 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.120 to ramp up the protection in your gut against something 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.440 that you just state. You see various animals that do 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:01.040 this after they have consumed um a toxic plant or 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.800 a semi toxic plant, something that if they just ate 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.640 it by itself, it would just become an increasingly more 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.240 of a problem with cause diarrhea, etcetera. And uh, I've 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.640 read some explanations of this where they essentially say that 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.680 it's it's us refusing to be bossed around by plants, 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.720 because plants are ultimately have it figured out. I mean, 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.480 there are plants that have that grow everywhere now because 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.320 they have and I hate to personify evolution too much, 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.720 but or personify plants, but they've essentially figured it out. It's, 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.000 you know, they know people need potatoes, they know people 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.200 need uh um, you know, illicit substances that they produce, 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.720 and it's they kind of they gained the system to 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.880 their advantage. So vegetation that has a fruit that is 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.760 toxic or slightly toxic, toxic uh, they're telling us where 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:49.440 we can eat them, when we can eat them, how 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.440 much we can eat them, and who can eat them. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:56.000 And so the the ability to consume clay um or 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.520 some other substance uh is essentially our way of saying, actually, 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.560 I'm going to decide when I'm going to eat you 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.160 and how much of you I am going to eat, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:05.800 right because I figured out a way you're gaming me, 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:07.840 and I've figured out a way to game you so 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.360 that I can still get some sort of food resource. Yeah, 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:15.080 that's the whole, the whole evolutionary battle in essence. Now, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.040 um Pica is thought to be associated with low levels 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.520 of iron in some people, um calcium, zinc, and vitamin C, 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.040 and pica may appear in as many as half of 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.440 those with iron deficiency and has been reported in about 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:33.360 twenty of pregnant women, and a study in France found 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:39.080 that among seventy nine patients with iron deficiency anema excuse 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:45.000 me anemia reported the regular ingestion of non food items, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:49.000 while only nine percent of the non amnemic subjects in 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.840 the control report of this behavior. So already you're seeing 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.680 here that there's there's a pretty good amount of data 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.320 that is saying that people are sometimes seeking it out 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.520 and sometimes not even uh you know, unbenounced themselves right now, 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.440 because the body is saying we need this, right, we 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.199 need an intake of this substance or this substance. We 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.360 need more iron, Go find it and instinctively we know 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.920 where iron occurs. Right, And that's when when you think 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.640 about pica, you tend to think again back to pregnant 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.160 women or children who there there are cities that show 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.200 that they do have a low level of these vitamins 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.480 are and are perhaps seeking it out. Yeah, children are growing, 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.560 they need some they need more vitamins to to grow. 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.439 You see that in the animal kingdom as well. For instance, 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.159 dear during antler growth period, there's a lot of tissue 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.680 growth going on pretty rapidly, so you'll see them eat 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.720 calcium and magnesium rich soils during that time. Yeah. And 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.000 if you think that that the pregnant women and the 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.879 children are just sort of, you know, an anomaly or 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.520 went off, this is really interesting. There's a study that 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.760 was published in the Quarterly Review for Biology, and again 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.320 it looked at pica and pregnant women in pre adolescent 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.919 children and it found that they are also the most 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:08.600 sensitive to parasites and pathogens. So Cornell University researcher Sarah Young, 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.240 who is also the studies lead author, she put together 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.920 a database of more than four hundred and eighty cultural 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.760 accounts of geofagi and the database includes as many details 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.720 as possible about the circumstance, circumstances under which the dirt 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:27.560 was consumed and by whom. And then they found again 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.040 that not only was it pregnant women and kids who 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.200 engaged in the dirt eating, it was far more prevalent 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.400 in tropical climates because this is where you have many 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.840 more food born microbes that are that are very abundant 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.840 and uh, and they find that these two groups of 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:47.760 people tended to eat the dirt during a gastro intestinal distress. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.640 So the story that's painted here is that this dirt 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.320 eating is helping to keep those pathogens and those parasites 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.480 at bay in those different cultures and protecting against these 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.960 two groups that are so sensitive to them. And I 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.399 thought this was interesting young who said in her study, 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.280 we hope readers agree that it's time to stop regarding 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:13.919 Geoflagi as a bizarre, non adaptive gustatory mistake. So in 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.760 this realm, you see it not as you know, something 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.399 that's a compulsion or perhaps part of the O C 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.639 D spectrum, but more again lining up with what the 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.760 body is needing or trying to guard it stuff against, 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.159 or as you say, gaming what's around you, right, gaming 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.040 those parasites or pathogens. And as we discussed before, I 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.800 mean it also comes back to understanding the mind body connection, 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.840 realizing that our that there's more going on in our bodies, 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.200 that our bodies not just a magic throne that our 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.840 brain rides in, but it is part and partial to 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.240 who we are, and the more we understand about its 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.000 cravings and its needs and its desires, uh, in terms 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.719 of in this case in terms of minerals um and 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.520 and Clay's and whatnot. The more we understand how we work, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.159 and then we know that that this kind of behavior 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.040 is not something that stands outside of ourselves, but it 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.639 is a part of the experience. Yeah, and I like 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:04.680 this topic too, because you do start to look at 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.040 it in these very different ways, the cultural aspect way 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.480 the body and just what it can do in game 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.680 for itself and how nature can game you as well. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.119 And then of course the psychological element to it um 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.280 where you see it with kids in autism and so 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.600 on and so forth. Yeah, now we'd be remiss if 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.399 we did not mention um some of the dirt aficionados 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.680 out there, is, particularly in the wine tasting world, that's right. Yes, 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.480 Now this is a French term, and your French is 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:33.400 better than than mine. It is. Actually, I always think 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.679 I'm not sure if I know that the t E 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.480 R R O I R, which of course means earth. Yeah, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.680 and this is the idea that someone who really knows 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.600 their wine, they get a sense of the earth in 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.240 which the grapes were grown. So it's kind of that 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:51.440 Dracula thing. Again, this the earth that the grapes came 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.399 from that were transformed into this this elegant wine. And 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.679 there's a sense of that and and certainly, I mean 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:01.160 it makes sense to a large point because the the 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:05.240 actual components of earth vary from one from one location 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.240 to the next. Anyone who's ever engaged in some serious 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.679 planting of trees, like we're my wife and I are 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.240 currently having a few fruit trees put in our backyard. 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.439 Um did a trade with somebody and uh, and when 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.280 you know, we're learning that, you know, there are certain 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.959 trees that grow in Georgian soil. And then you have 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.119 to also think about you know, city levels and whatnot. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:28.679 I mean, there's a lot that goes into dirt. Not 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.399 all dirt is just dirt. There are many different types. 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:36.840 So so it makes sense. I've also heard merroir mentioned 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.720