Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories done dun.
Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I am Lisa Hello, and I am Kara Hello.
Speaker 1: And every week on this podcast, we pick an episode
Speaker 1: of SVU that we just like, We run through it
Speaker 1: for you, and then we do the true crime that
Speaker 1: it was based on, and we chat with one of
Speaker 1: the very talented actors from the show.
Speaker 3: But first we catch up.
Speaker 2: We gab and today it's more needed than ever. Kara
Speaker 2: is in New York. I'm here in La and my
Speaker 2: apartment where the air conditioner is still broken. It is
Speaker 2: ninety degrees. Neither here nor there, Kara, what's up? Has
Speaker 2: Rosie even talked about me? She's really excited in New York.
Speaker 2: She's loving all the children she's meeting.
Speaker 1: I've been taking her to a lot of friends apartments
Speaker 1: that have kids because it's hot as hell here so
Speaker 1: I can't really like bring her anywhere besides air conditioned
Speaker 1: apartments where there are toys. So she's loving it. She's
Speaker 1: a cosmopolitan girl. As she liking the busy streets. Is
Speaker 1: there a park, is there.
Speaker 3: A baby a place?
Speaker 1: She's pointing things out, she's loving seeing birds. She is
Speaker 1: pointing out a lot of garbage. She keeps going, there's
Speaker 1: garbage on the ground. I'm like, yeah, that's New York.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of garbage on the ground. But it's great.
Speaker 1: I took Rosie and Oscar today down to my old
Speaker 1: apartment and I got a little picture of them. I'm
Speaker 1: probably gonna put it on Instagram. I got a little
Speaker 1: picture of them in front of my old apartment. It
Speaker 1: was really cute.
Speaker 3: And it's cool.
Speaker 1: New York is wild, Like there's just so many All
Speaker 1: the restaurants have like little outdoor huts now of like
Speaker 1: where you can eat outside, and it's sort of amazing.
Speaker 1: I know it was caused by a pandemic that ravaged
Speaker 1: the city, but it's a lovely little silver lining.
Speaker 2: I guess, like, no, you feel like you're in a
Speaker 2: different country. Everyone's just drinking wine and martinis out in the.
Speaker 1: Streets, and there's like places that like, honestly their winter
Speaker 1: their storefront doesn't look that great.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I would never eat there. But now
Speaker 3: that they have like an outside.
Speaker 1: Thing, I'm like, yeah, i'd eat there, you know, like
Speaker 1: i'd sit and have a glass of wine.
Speaker 3: But it's been really fun.
Speaker 1: I saw some of our mutual friends yesterday for dinner,
Speaker 1: and I saw some of my college.
Speaker 3: Friends, and we've been having a blast.
Speaker 2: And how's your family? The Connecticut house.
Speaker 3: Was a hit.
Speaker 1: The Connecticut house is a hit. Rosie is obsessed with it.
Speaker 1: She wakes up every morning and goes, where are all
Speaker 1: my friends? Meaning all my all my siblings and like
Speaker 1: her aunts and uncles.
Speaker 3: Well, you haven't seen your sister in like two years? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was wild. So now we've been hanging out
Speaker 1: a lot, which is good. And we're going to West
Speaker 1: Virginia tomorrow. Baby yeh no, sorry, West Virginia.
Speaker 3: I'm sure Shelby Chill. I'm sure it's just as fun
Speaker 3: as New York City. It is. It is just as fun.
Speaker 2: And you're driving the whole time. Yeah, better or worse?
Speaker 2: Will it be than the plane?
Speaker 3: You think?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 3: How is the plane?
Speaker 2: Was it?
Speaker 3: The plane name of a nightmare? Nightmare? The plane was
Speaker 3: a nightmare?
Speaker 1: Delta? What happened with COVID? Like they don't they can't
Speaker 1: afford any movies anymore. They had two kids movies and
Speaker 1: then the entire system did not work at all. I
Speaker 1: would have been fine with her just watching Finding Nemo
Speaker 1: over and over again, because that was basically all they had,
Speaker 1: but the full system shut down. Rosie was just wiggleworming
Speaker 1: in her seat for six full hours and Oscar Turbo
Speaker 1: barfed all over me.
Speaker 3: But I was prepared for it because he does that.
Speaker 1: Once in a while, and so I brought extra clothes
Speaker 1: for like everybody and including myself, and I was the
Speaker 1: one he barfed on. So it worked out, but it
Speaker 1: was harrowing. I really like feel. You know, our friend
Speaker 1: Cole Byer constantly is like tweeting keep children off of planes.
Speaker 1: I kind of agree, but I also have a person
Speaker 1: with two children and I need to fly, so you know,
Speaker 1: I try to keep them as quiet as I can.
Speaker 1: I think the people you've got to get mad at
Speaker 1: are the parents that just sit there, like looking at
Speaker 1: the I Potter their phone while their kid is having
Speaker 1: a full nightmare attack like and they don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that happens on a plane, though,
Speaker 2: because I think all parents have to be on alert
Speaker 2: that they are the number one enemy. Like they know
Speaker 2: that people are I don't you know. I like to
Speaker 2: smile at a baby, but they have to know. No,
Speaker 2: people are terrible, Honestly.
Speaker 3: People know now.
Speaker 1: I I'm so lucky with Rosie. The first time I
Speaker 1: flew with Rosie alone. Famously, I flew to Chicago for
Speaker 1: Megan Gay's bachelorette party with a five month old and
Speaker 1: I took two flights there because I wanted to get status.
Speaker 3: Did I end up losing my status? I sure did so.
Speaker 1: I flew two fucking flights with a baby, and I
Speaker 1: luckily got seated. Its to like really nice grandmas both ways,
Speaker 1: and they would like hold her for me while I
Speaker 1: like once it like went to get things out of
Speaker 1: the overhead. You know, It's just like I got lucky.
Speaker 3: But I'm sure Nicole like me.
Speaker 2: Anytime I see the struggle, I just feel blessed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a reminder. It's like you should have
Speaker 3: seen us.
Speaker 1: I mean we literally looked like a cartoon from like
Speaker 1: a Christmas vacation movie or something like we. I like,
Speaker 1: we both were like loaded down with bags like car
Speaker 1: seats to gatecheck the little stroller I had for Oscar's
Speaker 1: car seat lost a wheel. The wheel kept popping off
Speaker 1: everywhere we went like a pilot had to help me
Speaker 1: stop and help me put the wheelback on.
Speaker 3: Like it was harrowing. But we got there and we've
Speaker 3: been having a good time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, on pre check, I just I kind
Speaker 2: of arrive, I fall asleep immediately, and I love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, we're pre checked too, so that's the one blessing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually we should cut that because I don't need
Speaker 2: anyone else getting pre checked.
Speaker 3: I like my zoom in and out. That's the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's such an amazing service. It's people that
Speaker 2: don't use it. You're so dumb. But also I don't
Speaker 2: want you to use it. And how do so many
Speaker 2: people not purchase it? I know people that don't, like
Speaker 2: like my in laws.
Speaker 1: I told them to get it and they were like,
Speaker 1: we just barely fly and I'm like, even if you
Speaker 1: fly once a year, it's worth it.
Speaker 3: But again, cut all this.
Speaker 1: We don't want people using our Yeah, but you're gonna
Speaker 1: make me do clear, I'm gonna have to like go
Speaker 1: up to the next level where they're scanning my eyeball.
Speaker 2: No, by the way, so I got a new phone
Speaker 2: finally after years of bullying, and I have a lavender
Speaker 2: iPhone twelve. I think yeah, clear glitter case. Benjamin at
Speaker 2: the T Mobile and Highland Park fantastic service. I cannot
Speaker 2: tell you enough what an incredible employee he was. But
Speaker 2: the face lock, what the fuck? What the fuck is
Speaker 2: up with this face scanning. I'm wearing sunglasses, you can
Speaker 2: don't recognize me. I'm wearing a mask. You don't recognize me.
Speaker 2: It's like bullshit. I know the dumst invention. Give me
Speaker 2: a home buy. This is so stupid. I have to
Speaker 2: constantly move my sunglasses up. Maybe I'm addicted to my
Speaker 2: phone and I should just be able to walk without
Speaker 2: having to pick up sunglasses. But I'm like, what a
Speaker 2: stupid invention to happen? We need your full face showing
Speaker 2: at all times. Yeah, yeah, I thought it worked with sunglasses,
Speaker 2: but I know it doesn't work with masks.
Speaker 3: No, not sunglasses either. Damn.
Speaker 2: I'm not in New York, I don't. I did brag
Speaker 2: about being able to fall asleep and stuff. I was
Speaker 2: in Arizona. I was in Scottsdale. They pretend it's Phoenix.
Speaker 2: What's with comedy clubs, lying like I'm going to rally
Speaker 2: and it's actually in.
Speaker 3: Carrie, Like my brother lives in Carrie.
Speaker 2: He's got to come. Wait when is it this week?
Speaker 2: I mean people are gonna listen to it was last weekend.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm gonna tell him to go. He's got
Speaker 2: al komp him of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all
Speaker 2: his burgers are on me. I cannot believe it. I
Speaker 2: am so excited. But yeah, because our friend, I was like,
Speaker 2: how's Kara's sister. I've never met her. She said, not
Speaker 2: as chatty as you. A little quieter.
Speaker 1: Well, when you can't get a real burden, yeah, you
Speaker 1: grow up a little less chatty.
Speaker 2: So I can't wait to meet a bro. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: yeah Carrie, last time. I's whatever. The hotel is across
Speaker 2: the street from a Starbucks, and let's be honest, that's
Speaker 2: all I need. I just need little egg bites and
Speaker 2: I'm good to go.
Speaker 1: I mean, if it was across the street of Starbucks
Speaker 1: and a Jimmy John's, it would be like you're moving
Speaker 1: there in Arizona.
Speaker 2: I did have Jimmy Johnes three times and then I
Speaker 2: was sick of it. So hopefully I'll never have it again.
Speaker 2: But I was so happy to have it since I'm
Speaker 2: starting a health kick again.
Speaker 3: Some kind of just like having quarter pounders.
Speaker 2: Okay, anyways, but yeah, I'm sick of comedy club's lying,
Speaker 2: like the Chicago improv is actually in Schomberg.
Speaker 3: It's like, stop it.
Speaker 2: I'm having plans of rally, you know, I know a
Speaker 2: tattoo artist there, and suddenly.
Speaker 3: I'm in Carrie. I don't know.
Speaker 2: But anyways, I was in Arizona. I met some listeners.
Speaker 2: One was very nervous, like I felt like I was
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson and I was like, you need to stop
Speaker 2: doing this. She was just like she was a legit
Speaker 2: shaking a little bit, and I was like, what's up?
Speaker 2: And her fiance they just got engaged. He was like
Speaker 2: she's a little quiet, and I was like, yeah, she's
Speaker 2: so anxious.
Speaker 1: But if I was a quiet person, you would be
Speaker 1: scary for me to talk to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's just like I know who I
Speaker 2: am and like I'm looking at like I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just but once you know who you are and that,
Speaker 2: it is weird when someone is nervous to talk to you, right,
Speaker 2: like right, what do you talking? I hat, Jimmy John's
Speaker 2: in bed and sat at a pool alone for five hours,
Speaker 2: like I.
Speaker 3: Don't know why.
Speaker 2: But I also had problems the plaza they put you
Speaker 2: in at the pool closes at ten pm.
Speaker 3: Bullshit, Like a person came to kick me out.
Speaker 2: Oh, we're adults, You're gonna look at your own risk.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Fuck. Old people suck and Republicans suck.
Speaker 2: They love rules, they love fucking rules and interrupting. Oh.
Speaker 2: There was also a family at the show. One podcast listener.
Speaker 2: It was her eighteenth birthday. What's up with her sister,
Speaker 2: her parents, her grandma who's eighty four, a therapist still working,
Speaker 2: wear a mappard and she thought I was great. And
Speaker 2: I was like, if this eighty four year old therapist
Speaker 2: likes me, I'm doing something right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Amazing? I love that.
Speaker 2: And what a fun family. I wouldn't see me with
Speaker 2: a family. I think that's the number one mistake you
Speaker 2: can make. Also, I don't even know if I should
Speaker 2: bring it up up, but a QAnon kind of lunatic
Speaker 2: made a video against me. Someone tagged me in it,
Speaker 2: and at first I was a little nervous. This person
Speaker 2: was like crying and going nuts, and I go, what
Speaker 2: could I have said?
Speaker 3: What could I have said? That was so?
Speaker 2: And then I started searching her stuff. It's all Jesus stuff,
Speaker 2: it's all blue lives mad. It's like, okay, so what's
Speaker 2: going on here? She was mad that I talked about pornhub.
Speaker 2: She's one of those people that thinks they care about
Speaker 2: human trafficking but actually just want to shut down any
Speaker 2: service for any sex worker.
Speaker 3: And they think sex work.
Speaker 2: Is wrong and they say, you know, it's like pre
Speaker 2: serve raping kids all the time.
Speaker 3: Get off my back.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was actually a person who just doesn't
Speaker 2: believe in porn.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but they made like a ten minute video.
Speaker 2: Please send it to me. It's tears, ten minute video
Speaker 2: with tears. And she goes, she will, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to let this go, and I'm like, okay, you didn't
Speaker 2: even tag me. Also, she goes, and I kept thinking
Speaker 2: she would go back and say that she was just kidding,
Speaker 2: but she wasn't. She meant it, And I go, clearly,
Speaker 2: it's a joke. The whole hour is a joke. You
Speaker 2: want me after every joke to go, I'm kidding. I
Speaker 2: actually don't want to kill my father like, what are
Speaker 2: you talking about?
Speaker 3: Wait? Where did she see to you? Is this based
Speaker 3: off of? This was in Arizona? This was a she
Speaker 3: left the show.
Speaker 2: She made a video after seeing you live. She left
Speaker 2: the show go after my porn hub joke. She said
Speaker 2: she waited ten more minutes. She was crying in the video,
Speaker 2: how distraught she was because I love child abuse images.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's the most crazy. It's it was because
Speaker 2: at first, you know, I'm an empathetic person. I was like,
Speaker 2: I wonder what I could have said. But then it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you just want attention, Because if you were really bothered
Speaker 2: and you really care about an issue, you would wait
Speaker 2: and you would talk.
Speaker 3: To me after the show. Yeah, at the very least
Speaker 3: tag you in this video. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, someone else tagged me and they were like, I
Speaker 2: see her all the time.
Speaker 3: Hopefully she'll learn from this. I go, clearly it was
Speaker 3: a joke. Why would everything be a joke for an hour?
Speaker 2: And then this one thing is not a joke because
Speaker 2: you seem like, like, why didn't she say she was kidding?
Speaker 3: She wasn't kidding, of course I was kidding.
Speaker 1: Imagine a comedian that just said just kidding after a repunchline.
Speaker 3: That's what you pay for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it was a silly thing. But I can't
Speaker 1: wait to meet your brother amazing. Yeah, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: him to come. I mean, he does have two kids,
Speaker 1: so hopefully we'll figure something out.
Speaker 3: His mother in lave Stills down there. I'm sending him.
Speaker 3: He's going.
Speaker 1: But let's let's get going into this episode because it's
Speaker 1: a good one and we got lots of.
Speaker 3: No one else to talk shit about. I haven't talked
Speaker 3: to you in like a week and a half. I
Speaker 3: know we do. We need to just get on FaceTime.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's all well.
Speaker 2: I've been leaving you alone a little bit because you know,
Speaker 2: we are with two kids in New York City.
Speaker 1: No, I'll definitely FaceTime you from West Virginia. I'll be
Speaker 1: very bored and have time.
Speaker 2: How close is West Virginia and North Carolina? Should I
Speaker 2: meet up? I rent a car. That's what happened. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I've mentioned this before. I went to
Speaker 2: Australia for a comedy festival. My friend was living in
Speaker 2: Dubai at the time, and I was like, hop on
Speaker 2: over girl, and then she came and I was and
Speaker 2: she was tired, and I go, what's the problem. She goes,
Speaker 2: it was an eleven hour flight. I go, oh, I
Speaker 2: thought it was so close. She goes, what do you
Speaker 2: not know what a map is? But I sit and
Speaker 2: I was like romantically involved with something when she got there.
Speaker 3: I had a crush on someone already. So then I
Speaker 3: ignored her for a while.
Speaker 2: And she's like, I flew from Dubai and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I thought it was a quick trip.
Speaker 3: My bad.
Speaker 1: Anyhow, all right, let's get going into today's EPP. All right,
Speaker 1: all right, we are talking today about Dissonant Voices, season fifteen,
Speaker 1: Episode seven exciting.
Speaker 3: I love this episode, and let's get going.
Speaker 1: We open on Jackie Walker, the amazing Billy Porter. I
Speaker 1: love this man so much. I follow him on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I watch him in Pose. I I honestly think this
Speaker 1: was my first exposure to him. When I saw him
Speaker 1: in Pose, I was like, oh, from that episode of
Speaker 1: SVU like that, this is how I he came into
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 2: I saw him at a was it Virgin? I think
Speaker 2: I flew Virgin to Austria. I saw him in the
Speaker 2: lounge ooh, and it was thrilling. I left him alone.
Speaker 2: But it took a lot of strength and not to
Speaker 2: ruin his day.
Speaker 3: It took a lot out of me.
Speaker 2: And I do want to say, I mean, I'm sure
Speaker 2: other people, but I give him full credit and exploding
Speaker 2: men's fashion with that Christian Siriano velvet tuxedo dress like
Speaker 2: that to me really, after that it felt like even
Speaker 2: straight to we're wearing harnesses and different colors and Paisley
Speaker 2: print undershirts, like I really feel like him and Christian
Speaker 2: Seriano really did something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he brings it on the red carpet every time,
Speaker 1: and he is like the only one of the only
Speaker 1: men doing anything interesting. So I think that's great, And
Speaker 1: I mean, now more are like you said, but yeah.
Speaker 3: So he is Jackie Walker.
Speaker 1: He's backstage at some kind of production encouraging a young
Speaker 1: girl named Grace to go out on stage, like get
Speaker 1: out there and kill it. She looks nervous as hell.
Speaker 1: She looks on the precipice of barf And then we
Speaker 1: break into a graphics package for American Diva, which is
Speaker 1: clearly an American Idol ripoff, and it.
Speaker 3: Is week one.
Speaker 1: Grace steps out on the stage. The judges are American
Speaker 1: Idol alums Clay Aiken and Taylor Hicks and the incomparable Ashanti.
Speaker 1: She was a huge part of my college life. Love
Speaker 1: a shanty?
Speaker 2: No, my notes say, is that a shanty? I couldn't
Speaker 2: believe it completely. She's this girl. Grace is like so
Speaker 2: so nervous. She stutters her name in her hometown. We
Speaker 2: see a package of her with her mom and dad,
Speaker 2: and then Grace like doing a confessional where she talks
Speaker 2: about her mom's cancer diagnoses. Very classic American idol to have,
Speaker 2: you know, get your background package and then spill your hardship.
Speaker 2: We cut to Fit and Rollins, who are just BFFs
Speaker 2: eating Chinese food and watching American Diva in the squad room.
Speaker 3: I love this.
Speaker 2: I love when they're watching the thing that's about to happen, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I enjoy that.
Speaker 3: Also, Ice is he's drinking.
Speaker 2: A Snapple, and I know that's everywhere, but I do
Speaker 2: feel like I drink more Snapple when I lived in
Speaker 2: New York. It feels like a more New York thing
Speaker 2: than any well.
Speaker 1: I also I drink a Snapple, probably five snapples a
Speaker 1: week when I lived in New York, Like raspberry iced
Speaker 1: tea Snapple was my like, that was my drink of choice,
Speaker 1: and I cannot find one in California. They've either discontinued
Speaker 1: the flavor or they're just not sending it to the
Speaker 1: West Coast.
Speaker 3: I got.
Speaker 1: I'm going back to New York in a month, and
Speaker 1: I can't wait to find out where my snapp was.
Speaker 2: I'm mom, I'm a diet lemon or peach iced tea girl,
Speaker 2: but as I was peach iced tea, yeah, Kiwi strawberry,
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I loved it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I love Snapple.
Speaker 2: I hate that they went from glass to plastic but
Speaker 2: what I made, But I love that he was drinking it.
Speaker 2: And I'm glad you also think it's a New York thing.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure people will write to us going, how
Speaker 2: dare you we have Snapple here too?
Speaker 3: But no, we have Snapple in my grocery store.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's always just regular iced tea, peach
Speaker 1: maybe and like half in half.
Speaker 3: I don't know. There's just not my raspberry iced tea
Speaker 3: that I want anyway.
Speaker 5: Kara, one thing you might not realize is the girl
Speaker 5: that plays Grace was the second runner up season two
Speaker 5: of the X Factor. So she's saying for Simon Callan
Speaker 5: was on one of these shows herself.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I didn't even know that she was amazing.
Speaker 5: She's saying feeling good and she was like twelve and
Speaker 5: crushed it and then was on Broadway after, so she
Speaker 5: experienced this in real life.
Speaker 3: Kind of hilarious.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, thank god you're doing this extra research
Speaker 1: because I just like, I didn't recognize it.
Speaker 3: Now I watched the season, I didn't recognize her.
Speaker 1: And I was just like I don't care. You know,
Speaker 1: like if I recognize an actor, I obviously look up
Speaker 1: their whole IMDb. But this girl, I was just like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is just like a young girl.
Speaker 3: Wow. So an X Factor alum is playing Grace.
Speaker 1: So we're cutting back and forth in and out of
Speaker 1: this package like rollins and f or eating the Chinese
Speaker 1: and watching the show. And then we get back into
Speaker 1: the package and Grace is there with Jackie and Jackie's
Speaker 1: her vocal coach, and he like they do a close
Speaker 1: up of him, like touching her mid section. So it's
Speaker 1: sbu so you know, like you know what's coming, and uh,
Speaker 1: Grace is like, this is all thanks to my mom and.
Speaker 3: Dad, God and my coach.
Speaker 1: Jackie Walker, and I'm like, okay, I mean I don't
Speaker 1: think God did anything, but whatever. I always like go
Speaker 1: crazy when like gymnasts are like I got to give
Speaker 1: it all up to God, and I'm like, no, give
Speaker 1: it up for yourself. You were the one driving to
Speaker 1: the gym at four am. Like you are the one
Speaker 1: that like didn't doesn't get a period anymore. Like God
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with this, but a noop dog
Speaker 1: has thanked himself. I forgot if he has when he
Speaker 1: got the star or something else. But he's like, I
Speaker 1: want to thank myself, yeah, because I work hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I get I know God helps you work hard.
Speaker 3: So okay.
Speaker 1: So now we're back to the audition and she says
Speaker 1: she's going to sing for Once in My Life by
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder and Klaike and is like, okay, bitch, how
Speaker 1: old are you? And she's like fourteen And he's like okay,
Speaker 1: let's see it. Like he's like, there's no way you're
Speaker 1: gonna nail this, like amazing song.
Speaker 3: She starts singing.
Speaker 1: She's so quiet, she sounds like she's bombing, and then
Speaker 1: like suddenly there's a turn and she has like the
Speaker 1: most soulful voice. She's killing it. She's the audience is
Speaker 1: going nuts and she's amazing. Now we cut to all
Speaker 1: the different cast members and people in the outside world
Speaker 1: watching this girl, like Sleigh on this audition.
Speaker 3: We see a live on.
Speaker 1: The phone talking to Cassidy. She wants to throw a
Speaker 1: housewarming party. We see amorrow with Zara, his daughter, at
Speaker 1: a diner.
Speaker 3: She's like, Daddy, I want to be on American Diva.
Speaker 3: How do I do that?
Speaker 1: And he's like, practice and I'm like, well, also, you
Speaker 1: have to have vocal talent, Like you just can't practice
Speaker 1: your way into being.
Speaker 3: Good at it. I know.
Speaker 2: But then the kid goes, you're silly, daddy. I'm like,
Speaker 2: nothing is silly about practice. Yeah, how we're talking about
Speaker 2: keep eating your pancakes, Zara, right, But it truly just
Speaker 2: set a statement like nothing is silly about it.
Speaker 3: Then they cut back into Finn and Rollins.
Speaker 1: At the precincton Rollins is like singing along and I
Speaker 1: don't really she super moved by the song or does
Speaker 1: Kelly Giddish want to have a moment where she can sing.
Speaker 1: I don't really know what's going on here. And then
Speaker 1: we cut to this family where this little kid, Cooper
Speaker 1: is like sitting too close to the TV. His teen
Speaker 1: sister and him are watching the show. And then another family,
Speaker 1: a blonde family, where the blonde teenager is like, where's Jonah.
Speaker 1: He's missing the best part, and Grace is like smashing
Speaker 1: this audition. She brings Jackie on stage, which would never happen.
Speaker 3: I don't think ever.
Speaker 2: They would be like my vocal coach is coming out
Speaker 2: on stage. I would do that with my acting coach. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I would stay here right now toward Ted's coming
Speaker 2: with him.
Speaker 1: He's coming out on stage, and I got to give
Speaker 1: it up for my podcasting partner carry get out here,
Speaker 1: like that's what I want. I want that at your
Speaker 1: at your OSCAR acceptance speech, Wow, Oscar, I was totally thinking,
Speaker 1: like a people's choice, thank you for believing in me. Yeah, daytime, Emmy.
Speaker 3: Maybe okay.
Speaker 1: So then the in the blonde family, this little boy
Speaker 1: comes out Jonah, and the mom's.
Speaker 3: Like, who's really cute? He's really cute. Yeah, he's super
Speaker 3: super cute.
Speaker 1: And the mom's like, that's your music teacher, mister Jackie, Like,
Speaker 1: isn't that exciting? He's on TV? And Jonah's like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't like mister Jackie. He makes me play doctor
Speaker 1: and I don't like him, and he runs away and
Speaker 1: that's that's the end of the cold open. So we're
Speaker 1: obviously getting into a episode about accusations here. So now
Speaker 1: in the beginning of Act one, Olivia is interviewing Jonah.
Speaker 1: He's four years old, and he says, mister Jackie's a
Speaker 1: bad man. He followed me into the bathroom, and Pipa, well,
Speaker 1: this is a big Pippa Cocks episode. Pippa Rollins and
Speaker 1: Amarro are watching from behind the glass. We find out
Speaker 1: that Jackie is a pre K music teacher. He kept
Speaker 1: his day job even though he's sort of getting some
Speaker 1: notoriety as like an American diva voice coach, and he
Speaker 1: kept his job at the Margaret Fuller School, which is
Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollars a year prep school off of
Speaker 1: Park Avenue.
Speaker 3: Jonah's mom and dad recently split. This is relevant.
Speaker 1: Later in the hallway, fin and Tomorrow are talking to
Speaker 1: Jonah's mom, who says, well, one weird thing is that
Speaker 1: Jonah wet the bed at his dad's house.
Speaker 3: What she hasn't done forever.
Speaker 1: And then Jonah's dad like blows in, screaming like hot
Speaker 1: comes in so hot, Like they just are screaming at
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 3: Like she's lying. She only cares about the money. She
Speaker 3: already made a false report to me about.
Speaker 1: The UH to the IRS, which is like, that's so shady,
Speaker 1: like calling in a fake like you don't want to
Speaker 1: fuck with people's finances like that. I mean, no, you
Speaker 1: can't call in any false reports. The IRS is the
Speaker 1: best false report you can call in. You're gonna fuck
Speaker 1: with your husband, call the IRS. Don't accuse him of
Speaker 1: some kind of like crime he didn't commit. Very Blue Jasmine, Yes,
Speaker 1: I love that movie. Rollins talks to the sister Brooke
Speaker 1: Allen played by Hannah Hayes, and she says her brother
Speaker 1: confided in her about being touched by mister Jackie a
Speaker 1: couple weeks earlier, but she thought he was making it
Speaker 1: up and she should have said something. So Jonah is
Speaker 1: now drawing with live and showing her where on the
Speaker 1: body he was touched, like with a drawing. He also
Speaker 1: draws a magic egg and says this is something that
Speaker 1: mister Jackie tickles him with. And this doctor game happens
Speaker 1: in a special bathroom where there are bluebirds and flowers.
Speaker 1: PIPA's like, wow, he's a consistent, incredible witness, and Rollins
Speaker 1: is kind of like, yeah, Jackie has no record at all,
Speaker 1: Like this is kind of like, you know, out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Benson shows them the pick of the egg and says
Speaker 1: where it is with the musical instruments. So Rollins is like,
Speaker 1: do we have to make like a huge thing about this,
Speaker 1: Like he's an openly gay male teacher and a celebrity.
Speaker 1: Like if he gets accused of pedophilia, the stain will
Speaker 1: never go away, she says, So Rollins is kind of
Speaker 1: like something smells off.
Speaker 2: No, I'm loving Rollins and I love her got instinct
Speaker 2: and following it. But it's it is funny like when
Speaker 2: they choose because usually she's the dumbest bitch of all,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So I'm always so curious,
Speaker 2: like what about each case makes her not be the
Speaker 2: worst or any of them?
Speaker 3: When they like are like, wait.
Speaker 2: I have a hunch, cause it's like, well usually you're
Speaker 2: just like not hunching around.
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, And it's like somebody not having a
Speaker 1: record doesn't really mean anything.
Speaker 3: Somebody not you know.
Speaker 1: Like everybody has to have the first blemesh on their
Speaker 1: record at some point. So at the school, Rollinson Finn
Speaker 1: find a bathroom that has bluebirds and flowers painted in it.
Speaker 3: It's like a single stall bathroom.
Speaker 1: In the music room, Jackie is talking to Cooper's mom
Speaker 1: from the first scene, and she's like very delusional, and
Speaker 1: she's like, I saw a YouTube video of a girl
Speaker 1: who was three singing opera and it's like you can
Speaker 1: just tell she's like this stage mom who thinks her
Speaker 1: children are more talented than they are. Jackie's like, excuse me,
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? Like this is rude, I'm
Speaker 1: with a parent. And then they take a look in
Speaker 1: his musical instruments, specifically his clap and playbox, and they
Speaker 1: find what is clearly a vibrator, and and the mom,
Speaker 1: who has just been asked to leave, is like watching
Speaker 1: the whole thing through the window and like getting on
Speaker 1: the phone. So you can already like feel the hysteria building.
Speaker 2: And also like if you were using vibrators on children,
Speaker 2: you would hide it a little, right, You're not just
Speaker 2: throwing it in the clap and place exactly exactly for
Speaker 2: like a kid to find in the middle of the day.
Speaker 2: It's very weird, and Jackie thinks he's being punked by
Speaker 2: one of his producers, and like in the next scene
Speaker 2: he's an interrogation. He's completely like flabbergasted, like he's denying everything.
Speaker 1: He's stuttering like what the hell, Like none of this
Speaker 1: is this, that's not my tool, Like I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is.
Speaker 3: I never you know.
Speaker 1: And Olivia is like, you're famous and you're still teaching
Speaker 1: preschool kids like what? And Jackie's like, I care about
Speaker 1: what I do. Music is so important for kids and
Speaker 1: the early years are the most important. And then like
Speaker 1: he's just like, not, they're not believing anything he says,
Speaker 1: so he lawyers up.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: I love his line during this where he's just like
Speaker 2: you are not listening to me. Yeah, like you are
Speaker 2: not seeing me, you are not you are not taking
Speaker 2: me seriously at all.
Speaker 3: I need a lawyer.
Speaker 2: And I just love the way he set up his
Speaker 2: boundaries and it was like it wasn't like, oh I'm scared,
Speaker 2: this is too much.
Speaker 3: I'm getting a lawyer.
Speaker 2: It's just like, you guys are fucking up. I just
Speaker 2: love the way he worded everything. He's an amazing actor. No,
Speaker 2: he is really great.
Speaker 1: You really get the you really get this sort of
Speaker 1: like hysteric, like how upsetting it must be to just
Speaker 1: have everybody coming at you being like, yes, you did
Speaker 1: you did this, you did this, you did this, and
Speaker 1: you you didn't do it.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure there's an added like distrust of the
Speaker 2: criminal justice system and everything being a black gay man
Speaker 2: and like these rich ass white spaces like it already.
Speaker 3: It's just so many added layers and layers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly the listeners can see what's whose side we're on.
Speaker 3: We're not hiding it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sort of giving away a little bit of
Speaker 1: the end, but this is like the point of the episode.
Speaker 1: Rollins is like, Wow, you guys were like going out
Speaker 1: him pretty hard, and Benson's like, you're the one that
Speaker 1: found the eggs exactly where Jonah said they'd be, And
Speaker 1: I mean she's just kind of still like he's worked
Speaker 1: at the school for twelve years. There's been no complaints.
Speaker 1: He's always been extremely popular, and ice t goes everyone
Speaker 1: loved Elmo too, And I think this is a reference
Speaker 1: to the Elmo scandal, which you can read about.
Speaker 3: We can put a link to that in our thing too,
Speaker 3: But Elmo is still kicking. Yeah, Almo's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1: This was like one guy that voiced Elmo and was
Speaker 1: his puppeteer had a scandal and it's like, yeah, Almo
Speaker 1: is here to stay. So they think Jackie has been
Speaker 1: grooming Jonah, and Rollins is kind of like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: He's four years old, like he might not know what's
Speaker 1: going on. Pippa says Jonah won't be swearable, even though
Speaker 1: she before said he was consistent and credible.
Speaker 3: I guess because of age. He's too young.
Speaker 1: So they're like, there's got to be other accusers. She said,
Speaker 1: I'll call the Principles see if there's other accusers, and
Speaker 1: I'll put some fear in them, is what she says.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm just picturing Rosie as like an expert witness
Speaker 2: on the stand.
Speaker 3: I bet she could do it. They'd be like, who
Speaker 3: did you see do this?
Speaker 2: She'll go Leza under jack Aranda.
Speaker 3: She does love talking about jack Aranda's.
Speaker 2: Well, anyone that I tell about that, They're like, what's
Speaker 2: a jack Aranda?
Speaker 3: I go, yeah, exactly. So now in the next scene,
Speaker 3: Rollins is talking to Cooper, who.
Speaker 1: Is clearly another boy who's come forward, and he is
Speaker 1: the boy who his mom was talking about the opera
Speaker 1: singer and we were watching this boy and his sister
Speaker 1: watch American Diva at the beginning of the episode. So
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, Cooper, we heard you didn't want to
Speaker 1: go to music class the other day, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go because mister Jackie does bad things.
Speaker 3: He came into the bathroom with me. There was a window.
Speaker 1: Above the tub with pink flowers and she's like a
Speaker 1: tub and he's like, I meant sync. So he talks
Speaker 1: about the game and the extra special purple magic eggs
Speaker 1: and then he gets tickled with it. So it's a
Speaker 1: very similar story to Jonah's and apparently nobody things they
Speaker 1: sound coached. In the hallway. Cooper's mom is like a
Speaker 1: complete nut and she's like pacing the halls, fielding phone calls,
Speaker 1: like getting multiple calls like hold on, I'm on the
Speaker 1: other line with Ellen, like everything. She just seems like
Speaker 1: she's getting very wrapped up in the whole thing and
Speaker 1: obviously spreading the word to many other moms around the school.
Speaker 1: And yeah, she's Cooper's mom, Missus Burne. She says, oh
Speaker 1: my god. A month ago Cooper came home without his underwear.
Speaker 1: So at the precinct, we've now got two victims. But
Speaker 1: Rollins points out that the descriptions of the bathrooms are different,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, that's not They're all kind of
Speaker 1: just like writing Rollin's off here. Then they have tested
Speaker 1: the magic egg and it is positive for Jonah's saliva
Speaker 1: and fecal bacteria. And then there's a second sample on it,
Speaker 1: so they need to get that tested also, and they're
Speaker 1: just like, well, you wanted more evidence, Pepa, what else
Speaker 1: are you waiting for? In the next scene, we found
Speaker 1: out that it's both Jonah and Cooper's DNA are on
Speaker 1: the sex toy.
Speaker 3: Jackie is still denying. I have to admit. This does
Speaker 3: look bad.
Speaker 1: Does look bad for him, and he's denying, but every
Speaker 1: pedophile would deny, you know, Like so who knows. A
Speaker 1: bunch of kids say they saw him go into the
Speaker 1: bathroom with Cooper. So Jackie breaks down and says, okay,
Speaker 1: I did go into the bathroom with Cooper because the
Speaker 1: poor kid fell into the toilet. He was embarrassed, he
Speaker 1: was crying. I was trying to help him and save
Speaker 1: him from shame. I should have told his mother. She
Speaker 1: wasn't at pick up that day. I had to go
Speaker 1: to American Diva. I didn't do anything to these kids.
Speaker 1: He's still maintaining his innocence now, and Olivia is like,
Speaker 1: sort of not normal Olivia. She's really not believing and
Speaker 1: she's really like, oh, which one of your excuses should.
Speaker 3: We go with?
Speaker 1: Punk Like she's really kind of coming off a little
Speaker 1: bit more cynical than Olivia usually does. And now it's
Speaker 1: like the full scandal of this has launched right like
Speaker 1: it's on TV Grace from American Divas being hounded by
Speaker 1: the paparazzi and she's like, I thought I knew him.
Speaker 3: I guess I didn't, you know.
Speaker 1: Taylor Hicks makes a statement on behalf of American Diva
Speaker 1: saying that Jackie's taking a leave of absence. Iced Tea
Speaker 1: is like a little bit with Rollin's like, are we
Speaker 1: sure this is like this happened? And Rollins is like,
Speaker 1: I know Live is working through some things because famously
Speaker 1: this is seven episodes after the William Lewis Nightmare, so
Speaker 1: they think her judgment might be off and she's pushing
Speaker 1: this one too hard, and Amara's like, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: with my partner on this one, and Rollins' is like,
Speaker 1: of course you are so little tension between those two.
Speaker 1: At arraignment, Jackie pleads not guilty, but they argue that
Speaker 1: he has all this access and like all this money,
Speaker 1: even though I mean there's really no proof yet he's
Speaker 1: just gotten on TV two days earlier or something. As
Speaker 1: a vocal coach like, I don't think there's any proof
Speaker 1: that he has all these resources. And they set his
Speaker 1: bail at a million dollars and he's like, I don't
Speaker 1: have that money, and his lawyer is like, can you
Speaker 1: call someone? He's like, my brother won't return my phone calls.
Speaker 1: I have no family, I have no resources. Like this is,
Speaker 1: you know, and like, let's not forget that. Like when
Speaker 1: you cannot pay bail because of the bail system in
Speaker 1: our country, you just stay in jail until your trial,
Speaker 1: which could be years.
Speaker 3: In this show, it seems like it's two weeks, but
Speaker 3: it's years.
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, and you know, that's why
Speaker 1: we sort of need to change the whole bail system.
Speaker 1: But also, yeah, this is a semi famous, openly black
Speaker 1: gay man going to jail with the stink of pedophile
Speaker 1: on him. So he's not having a great time in jail.
Speaker 2: And this is kind of like the Pipa Cox Tank
Speaker 2: Abraham episode in terms of like them telling Hank like, yeah,
Speaker 2: everyone's going to turn their back on you if they
Speaker 2: already haven't, right, Like you really need some great fucking
Speaker 2: friends to stand with you during a pedophile trial. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Like we might be best friends, but will you be my
Speaker 2: friend when I'm on.
Speaker 3: Trial for pedophilia? Who knows?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: In the next scene, Olivia's with her therapist, so they
Speaker 1: talk about the case. Olivia feels like she's playing whack
Speaker 1: a mole, like, which I'm sure it is what it's
Speaker 1: like when you work in sex crimes in New York City,
Speaker 1: Like it's never there's never like a slow period where
Speaker 1: people are not being hurt. So he's like, do you
Speaker 1: think of yourself as a savior, And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Olivia Benson is one hundred percent of savior.
Speaker 3: Lisa has the candle to prove it.
Speaker 1: He's like, you've spent so much of your life taking
Speaker 1: care of others. You've never mentioned your parents, and I
Speaker 1: couldn't help but wonder very Sex in the City.
Speaker 3: Dialogue, if when you were a little girl did someone
Speaker 3: take care of you?
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're getting a little personal moment with Olivia
Speaker 1: where you get the feeling that she completely raised herself
Speaker 1: because obviously her father wasn't in her life and her
Speaker 1: mother was this alcoholic and so you don't get the
Speaker 1: feeling that she was taken care of and so maybe
Speaker 1: this speaks to her need to want to take care
Speaker 1: of people.
Speaker 3: All the time.
Speaker 1: So now in the next scene, the floodgates are open.
Speaker 1: All these kids are now saying mister Jackie's a bad
Speaker 1: man that touched them. But this next round of stories
Speaker 1: do not sound credible to me really as much or
Speaker 1: at all. So like one of the kids is like,
Speaker 1: mister Jackie is a bad man, and then she says
Speaker 1: it was uncomfortable. And now Finn is hearing from a
Speaker 1: little boy and says, mister Jackie played the game with me.
Speaker 3: It was inappropriate. Like that's not words four year olds
Speaker 3: are using.
Speaker 1: I mean, my daughter repeats everything I say, but she's
Speaker 1: not like in conversation saying inappropriate. And I know she's
Speaker 1: only two, but I don't really think that you can
Speaker 1: just tell that these are coached words, I think. And
Speaker 1: tomorrow is like hearing from a little girl who straight
Speaker 1: up goes, mister Jackie's a bad man to my mom
Speaker 1: says he is, so he is like you know, so
Speaker 1: that's like you're just fully hearing how these kids are
Speaker 1: being influenced by their parents. And now we're up to
Speaker 1: nine allegations boys and girls, which I don't think is
Speaker 1: as common.
Speaker 3: And they're all preschoolers at this.
Speaker 1: School and they all said Jackie Walker tickled them. And
Speaker 1: all the kids are too young to be swearable, like
Speaker 1: they're all four around four. So now they're like, let's
Speaker 1: go to brook, Jonah's older sister, because she's been studying
Speaker 1: with him for ten years, even though she's like fourteen
Speaker 1: or fifteen now, she's studied with him when she was four.
Speaker 1: So Brooke says, Jackie didn't touch me. He just touches
Speaker 1: little kids. And they're like, yeah, but you were a
Speaker 1: little kid. She breaks down and says, if I had
Speaker 1: just told my mom, then it wouldn't have happened to Jonah.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, probably, but you can't I guess,
Speaker 1: don't blame yourself. But she says it started out as
Speaker 1: tickling and then he had these egg toys and he
Speaker 1: had her put one inside of her and he would.
Speaker 3: Watch and touch himself.
Speaker 1: Now I'm watching this episode with my mother at this time,
Speaker 1: who is a pediatrician, and my mom goes, oh, come on,
Speaker 1: you could not put one of those toys inside of
Speaker 1: a four year old child without causing serious damage. And
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so that's coming from a pediatrician
Speaker 1: that you could not put a full vibrator egg into
Speaker 1: a small child or it would cause bleeding, which a
Speaker 1: parent would notice.
Speaker 2: You know what, this season, maybe a Neil Bear's a
Speaker 2: medical expertise on staff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean, because she would have
Speaker 3: known you can't put an egg in a baby.
Speaker 1: And you know what, Rosemary Clink is available and she
Speaker 1: can be paid in wine. If you pay her in
Speaker 1: rose she will absolutely be your pediatric consult I did.
Speaker 2: Love watching your mom drink wine.
Speaker 3: You did wait long. She was truly going through bottle
Speaker 3: after bottle. She was on vacation. If you're a patient
Speaker 3: of her, she was on vacation.
Speaker 1: So now they go talk to Rachel Cooper's older sister.
Speaker 1: And I love this actress because her name is Kara
Speaker 1: with a K, and she is also the main girl
Speaker 1: from Moonrise Kingdom which was a movie I loved, and
Speaker 1: I actually tried to have a Moonlight Rice Kingdom themed
Speaker 1: backdrop for my photo booth at my wedding, but it
Speaker 1: was too hard to do. But I did call several
Speaker 1: Alamo draft houses asking if I could get their backdrop
Speaker 1: of Moonrise Kingdom and they did not have them. Rollins
Speaker 1: goes to help Cooper brush his teeth and she notices
Speaker 1: that in Cooper's bathroom. This is like, so Olivia can
Speaker 1: go speak to the sister. Rollins' is like, oh, Cooper
Speaker 1: finishes toothbrushing, and then she notices that in his bathroom
Speaker 1: there's bluebirds and pink flowers over the tub in the
Speaker 1: bathroom and she's like, has mister Jackie ever been to
Speaker 1: your house? And he's like no, never Meanwhile, we cut
Speaker 1: back to Rachel talking Olivia and she's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: mister Jackie, use the vibrators on me. And Rollins comes
Speaker 1: in and is like live, can I talk to you?
Speaker 1: And Lives like not a great time, Rollins and she's
Speaker 1: like and nevertheless, can I talk to you? And they
Speaker 1: have this like tense moment, but then she does pull
Speaker 1: Olivia out and show her the bathroom and then they
Speaker 1: talked to Cooper again and now he's kind of like
Speaker 1: reciting the story. Now you're getting it sounds a little
Speaker 1: bit more coached, a little bit more wrote. And they
Speaker 1: ask him, is it hard for you to remember the
Speaker 1: story the way it was told to you? And he's
Speaker 1: like yeah, And she's like, who told you the story?
Speaker 1: And he says it was Brooke Twists heading into act
Speaker 1: for huge twists. Now Benson and Rawlings are talking to
Speaker 1: Pip and Barbara about how Cooper is reciting his story
Speaker 1: given to him and like PIPA's like, well, what about
Speaker 1: the other eight complainants? And Barbara goes Extraordinary Popular Delusions
Speaker 1: and the Madness of Crowds, which is I looked that
Speaker 1: up because I was like, that's not just Barbara. Barbara's
Speaker 1: so smart. He's obviously always referencing something. And that is
Speaker 1: an early study of crowd psychology by Scottish journalists Charles
Speaker 1: McKay that was published in eighteen forty one called Extraordinary
Speaker 1: Popular Delusions in the Madness of Crowds. So, I think
Speaker 1: if you are familiar with like the McMartin trial or
Speaker 1: other trials that have happened in the past where it's
Speaker 1: like a wave of hysteria that goes from person to
Speaker 1: person and people like make up these experiences that they've had,
Speaker 1: And that's essentially what they're suggesting might be happening with
Speaker 1: these other kids that have all come forward. So why
Speaker 1: did Brooke and Rachel set up Jackie? Like because he
Speaker 1: molested them when they were four? Is this like payback?
Speaker 1: So let's go ask Jackie what happened. They go visit
Speaker 1: Jackie at jail and he is like, I dropped Brooke
Speaker 1: and Rachel when I decided to coach Grace for American Diva,
Speaker 1: Like they you have to be really really special to
Speaker 1: make it as far as someone like Grace and Grace is,
Speaker 1: and these girls weren't. And I saved them from ten
Speaker 1: years of waiting for a big break that was never
Speaker 1: going to come. And then they were like that must
Speaker 1: have made them pretty pissed, huh, And he like, this
Speaker 1: is such a great acting moment with him as he
Speaker 1: realizes why these he's been set up and that it
Speaker 1: was by like two of his former students just out
Speaker 1: of pure spite and hatred.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he did spend ten years with them, probably
Speaker 2: multiple times a week.
Speaker 3: That is fucked. But then it is like, you're right.
Speaker 2: The acting is so good because it's vindication, it's relief,
Speaker 2: like you will get out, but then it's a heartbreak
Speaker 2: and then it's also my life will never be the same,
Speaker 2: these two dumb bitches. It is so many emotions that
Speaker 2: he's able to capture for sure.
Speaker 1: So he starts crying and like tearing up when he realizes,
Speaker 1: like how like what has gone down? And they're like, wow,
Speaker 1: setting up your music teacher who dropped you for being
Speaker 1: a pedophile as hardball, like even for teens, and Rollins
Speaker 1: is like yeah, But Brooks sees the way her mom
Speaker 1: plays hardball in this divorce, and I mean admittedly like
Speaker 1: calling the irs, making up a story, like she sees
Speaker 1: like this is how you get back at people that
Speaker 1: make you mad.
Speaker 2: But also is she is sociopath because it's like I
Speaker 2: don't care how mad I was at someone, I would
Speaker 2: not like frame.
Speaker 3: Them for pedophile rape, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, no, that has such Do you really think he
Speaker 2: should serve forty years in jail? Like it's fucked up? Yeah,
Speaker 2: these girls better get fucking locked up.
Speaker 1: Well, I think we find out that they don't because
Speaker 1: it's like for sure, it's about privilege, Like they don't
Speaker 1: really see it as a thing of this is what's
Speaker 1: going to happen to this man's life. They're just like, no,
Speaker 1: he isn't going to make us be stars, so we're
Speaker 1: doing this, or he's not gonna help us be stars.
Speaker 3: I guess Okay.
Speaker 1: So we're cutting back and forth between the interviews with
Speaker 1: Rachel and Brooke, and they're asking Rachel like, so he
Speaker 1: had like a power over you, but like then you
Speaker 1: just quit working with him or did he drop you?
Speaker 1: And she's like, don't let them talk to me like
Speaker 1: this to her mom, which is a little bit you
Speaker 1: get like a little tinge of her being a little
Speaker 1: bit too entitled.
Speaker 3: And then they corner Rachel.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, you bought the magic eggs online with
Speaker 1: your parents credit card.
Speaker 3: Like that to me is like a smoking gun, like.
Speaker 1: You got the eggs like that could have been checked
Speaker 1: to me before the press. Goot word, Let's look and
Speaker 1: see if anybody in like has bought these eggs or whatever.
Speaker 3: Also, Amorrow is like yelling at her and I liked it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Amaro gets real pissed at Rachel, and then she breaks
Speaker 1: down and is like this wasn't my idea. This was
Speaker 1: all Brooks ideas. She made the whole thing up. She
Speaker 1: told me what to say, she told Cooper what to say.
Speaker 1: That's it. And then Brooke, in her interrogation, is like,
Speaker 1: I know I'm going to be a star, and Rollins
Speaker 1: is kind of like, really, girl, it's really funny. I
Speaker 1: love Rollin's sparring with a fourteen year old narcissist. And
Speaker 1: she's like, I didn't do this to Jackie. Jackie did
Speaker 1: this to me, and Iced Tea goes to the mom,
Speaker 1: you must be really proud.
Speaker 3: Of your daughter, Shade. I love it, so you know.
Speaker 1: In the next scene, all the charges against Jackie are dismissed.
Speaker 1: The City of New York extends their sincere apologies. I mean,
Speaker 1: he obviously has a civil case on his hands. He
Speaker 1: should get money.
Speaker 3: Benson, Amaro and Rowlins apologize to Jackie, but Jackie does
Speaker 3: not give a fuck. His name is ruined.
Speaker 1: He'll never teach again, and he's like, when did these
Speaker 1: girls get charged? And Barba's like, they got misdemeanor obstruction
Speaker 1: one year probation. They won't testify against each other, and
Speaker 1: the only way to prove it would be to have
Speaker 1: four year old boys take the stand and these boys
Speaker 1: are already damaged as it is, and he's like they're damaged,
Speaker 1: and it's like just a more great billy Porter acting
Speaker 1: and he's just like, get the hell away from me.
Speaker 1: And the cops are remorseful and they're like, wow, they
Speaker 1: didn't sound coached like and Amarro's like, we did our job,
Speaker 1: we got the evidence, and Rollins is like, you guys,
Speaker 1: keep telling yourself whatever you want.
Speaker 3: This didn't have to happen.
Speaker 1: And it is kind of a good Rowlins episode because
Speaker 1: you're like, she had a punch the whole time, that
Speaker 1: this was like not what it seemed.
Speaker 2: And I like that she's calling them out at the
Speaker 2: end too of just like whatever you need, bitches, but
Speaker 2: you're wrong and you did this and you fucked this
Speaker 2: man's life up forever, right.
Speaker 1: And it is a rare occasion, I feel like where
Speaker 1: you see live making a big mistake too, like that,
Speaker 1: Like Olivia, I think that they're suppose they're trying to
Speaker 1: show you how affected she's been by the trauma that's
Speaker 1: happened to her. I think because she normally is a
Speaker 1: little bit more even keeled.
Speaker 3: She hears both sides.
Speaker 1: She like examines though it's in front of her and
Speaker 1: this she was just like, you're guilty, like immediately, so
Speaker 1: it was kind of you know, you don't see that
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 1: I'm excited and I don't again I always say excited,
Speaker 1: but I'm interested to hear the real story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately there is no false accusations here.
Speaker 3: It is it is confirmed.
Speaker 2: It is confirmed, and actually PIPA Cox mentions this case
Speaker 2: in this episode. Yes, so stay tuned everyone.
Speaker 3: Welcome back. Okay.
Speaker 2: I hope the commercials were nice and soothing or you
Speaker 2: skipped through them like we do.
Speaker 3: Okay, and don't do it. Listen to them, guys. We
Speaker 3: need that money.
Speaker 2: So this case is set in the UK in England.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Saville is the purp that we will be discussing.
Speaker 3: And I learned about this case a few years ago.
Speaker 2: I was performing at the Melbourne Comedy Festival and this comedian,
Speaker 2: Rosie Jones.
Speaker 3: And I were hanging out.
Speaker 2: I will never forget this, and there were other comics
Speaker 2: there too, and she just broke down and told me
Speaker 2: this whole story and it shocked my life up. I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe we didn't know about it in the States.
Speaker 2: But also it is truly heinous. It is so layered,
Speaker 2: so many facts over decades.
Speaker 3: It is just a wild case. I know nothing about this.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm like coming in completely virginal to
Speaker 1: this story.
Speaker 3: Oh, you will be shocked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I do want to out out Rosie Jones
Speaker 2: for introducing me to this case.
Speaker 3: She is a weak compan another Rosie.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she's a really funny comic in the UK
Speaker 2: and really talented writer, so check her out. Maybe she
Speaker 2: has a podcast, who knows. But it is really shocking.
Speaker 2: And the way she explained it to me was like
Speaker 2: if mister Rogers had committed all of these crimes against
Speaker 2: children and stuff. But when I googled him, he does
Speaker 2: not look like mister Rogers. He looks wild and it
Speaker 2: is kind of part of his appeal that he looks
Speaker 2: eccentric and so abnormal. So I was like, Okay, maybe
Speaker 2: he's not mister Rogers. You need a new example. Also,
Speaker 2: Netflix is working on a documentary about him right now,
Speaker 2: and it's going to come out towards the end of
Speaker 2: the year, which sucks for me because I actually had
Speaker 2: to read in my research. But you guys will be
Speaker 2: all ahead of the game before the documentary comes out,
Speaker 2: and there is an ITV documentary about him that you
Speaker 2: can watch on YouTube as well. But yeah, so lots
Speaker 2: of stuff coming out about him.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Saville was a DJ television personality, children's television host,
Speaker 2: radio personality, and a dance hall manager and was super
Speaker 2: well known for his fundraising and supporting of charities and hospitals.
Speaker 2: A very very known philanthropist, he was knighted in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety by the Queen. He also got like some other
Speaker 2: special religious nighting from Pope John Paul the Second. He
Speaker 2: was beloved and he used his reputation to commit these crimes.
Speaker 2: He hung out with the Royal family. He spent holidays
Speaker 2: with the Thatchers. He was one of Britain's biggest stars,
Speaker 2: a larger than life character. Some of his TV shows
Speaker 2: that he was known for were called Top of the Pops,
Speaker 2: jim Will Fix It, and various stints on BBC Radio One.
Speaker 2: And like we said, his public persona was very like
Speaker 2: He's eccentric, flamboyant, straightforward and good natured, and he used
Speaker 2: all of that to keep speculation at bay. And like
Speaker 2: when people thought these things about him, he would be
Speaker 2: able to go like I'm just odd.
Speaker 3: I'm just so weirdo, Like that's just me.
Speaker 2: To kind of quiet everything down, and even in like
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two in a documentary, he was quoted saying,
Speaker 2: it's a nice thing that I have nothing to hide
Speaker 2: from people, Like.
Speaker 3: With every moment, you will be more emotion.
Speaker 1: She's always so wild to me when people are just
Speaker 1: like flaunted a little bit, like I'm just an open book.
Speaker 3: Like what it's like you're asking.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like Erica Jane going on TV and
Speaker 1: showing how she spends her money when it's all being stolen, like.
Speaker 2: And it is just so sad and disgusting that how
Speaker 2: far she's doubled down where she's just like, I don't
Speaker 2: have to give my money back, and it's like, you're disgusting.
Speaker 3: I can't. I hope she ends up in jail, which
Speaker 3: is wild.
Speaker 2: You know, we bonded going to her concert, I know,
Speaker 2: her forty five minute concert.
Speaker 3: I was pregnant, brought I brought my rosie and you'd
Speaker 3: wrote to that show.
Speaker 2: And the big thing with this case that makes it
Speaker 2: even more horrific, besides all the crimes, is like I mean,
Speaker 2: the question is did people know or not? The answer
Speaker 2: as they did. How much did they know? Were people
Speaker 2: covering it up? Were they surprised? And we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about all this. But he was able to get
Speaker 2: away with these crimes for decades and it was an
Speaker 2: open secret. Investigators now legit believe he has around five
Speaker 2: hundred victims.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, some as young as two years old.
Speaker 2: Ough at the height of his fame, he sexually abused
Speaker 2: hundreds of children, women, men, everybody. He committed these crimes
Speaker 2: at institutions including the BBC Broadcasting Studio, fourteen hospitals and
Speaker 2: twenty children's hospitals across England.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, getting ahead of the story.
Speaker 2: Though he did die in October twenty eleven at age
Speaker 2: eighty four, and then the story broke, so the story
Speaker 2: was kept hidden until after his death.
Speaker 1: Wow, but that is what they refer to in the
Speaker 1: SVU episode. They refer to Jimmy Saville as like a
Speaker 1: guy that has victims of both genders and like who
Speaker 1: and various ages he is.
Speaker 3: That's a little bit of a break from the norm
Speaker 3: with pedophiles.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, and then this isn't along in
Speaker 2: the story. But a Washington Post article from twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: It started so shady and went Jimmy Saville was never
Speaker 2: a handsome man, and I'm like.
Speaker 3: Okay, which Gay wrote this article.
Speaker 2: So going back in time nineteen fifty five is the
Speaker 2: earliest incident of abuse recorded by the police in Manchester,
Speaker 2: when he managed a dance hall nineteen sixty a ten
Speaker 2: year old boy asked for an autograph and he took
Speaker 2: the boy inside and sexually assaulted him. By nineteen sixty five,
Speaker 2: records show abuse started at the BBC, at Leeds General Infirmary,
Speaker 2: where he was a longtime volunteer, and at Stone Mandeville
Speaker 2: Hospital where he also volunteered. His relationship at Leeds General
Speaker 2: Infirmary lasted five decades. At first it was mostly fundraising
Speaker 2: and then in nineteen sixty eight he had a request
Speaker 2: to become a porter and to bust patients. So he
Speaker 2: asked to bust patients and everyone was like okay. So
Speaker 2: he volunteered countless hours as a hospital aid, busting patients
Speaker 2: to and from.
Speaker 3: He also got his own parking spot.
Speaker 2: He was there a lot and he had limitless range
Speaker 2: of facilities. He would actually park his camper van overnight
Speaker 2: at the hospital and workers would dispatch at eight am
Speaker 2: coffee to his door, so he was just like always
Speaker 2: out and about. Doctor Sue Proctor, who chaired an inquiry
Speaker 2: into his actions at Leeds, said that Savill had an
Speaker 2: unwholesome interest in the dead. If you can catch my drift,
Speaker 2: it is said that he posed for photos and performed
Speaker 2: sex acts on corpses in the hospital at mortuary.
Speaker 3: Jesus.
Speaker 2: This story lots of people claim across many sources, but
Speaker 2: I was not able to confirm this next statement. But
Speaker 2: a bunch of different people said that he would wear
Speaker 2: jewelry and rings that were made from glass eyes of
Speaker 2: dead bodies from the mortuary.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: He had a bedroom at Stoke Mandeville Hospital in Buckinghamshire
Speaker 2: and an office in living quarters at Broadmoor Psychiatric Hospital
Speaker 2: in Berkshire. He yes, he made inappropriate comments when female
Speaker 2: patients had to strip down. He showered naked in front
Speaker 2: of staff. He would watch women shower, molest and rape
Speaker 2: patients and staff. He had free reign and a set
Speaker 2: of keys. He had a set of keys to a
Speaker 2: psychiatric hospital. He went after the most highly vulnerable people
Speaker 2: because people at the psychiatric hospital are people that will
Speaker 2: not be believed. You know, they're not very credible witnesses.
Speaker 2: There's an amazing episode with Natasha Leonovs. You kind of
Speaker 2: dealing with this, like, I say, full access to Leeds
Speaker 2: General Infirmary where he raped and fondled boys, girls, men
Speaker 2: and women in offices and corridors, and there he also
Speaker 2: committed sexual acts on dead bodies.
Speaker 3: Oh my.
Speaker 2: One hospital worker said he sort of basically had the
Speaker 2: run of the place. Some of his victims were attacked
Speaker 2: as they lay on hospital trolleys after operations.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. And I learned about all this while
Speaker 3: we were like at a bar drinking.
Speaker 2: I was just like, wait, what, like what like we
Speaker 2: do a crime show when we talk about Heinus crimes
Speaker 2: and you were like what the fuck? I was like
Speaker 2: having a cocktail with an umbrella and it as these
Speaker 2: Brits were just like yelling, like everyone was just telling me,
Speaker 2: and with every moment it got.
Speaker 3: Like worse and worse and worse. So yeah, at the
Speaker 3: aft Drop.
Speaker 2: Besides hospitals, he also raped and assaulted people in television
Speaker 2: dressing rooms, schools, children's homes, and in his car. And
Speaker 2: that's why he agreed to like bust patients around and
Speaker 2: drive everyone because it was like a great place to
Speaker 2: molest people they're in your car. He also would like
Speaker 2: be their version of make a Wish style, like he
Speaker 2: would be driving people in limos to get their like
Speaker 2: wishes because they were sick, and molest sick kids on
Speaker 2: their way to have their wishes, like complete it. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: he was very good at making pride. But he didn't
Speaker 2: even have to be private.
Speaker 1: I mean it was like on fucking oh because yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure by the time you're getting away with
Speaker 1: it for a couple of decades, you're like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna I'm untouchable now, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and we'll get to more of how he
Speaker 2: had leverage on people as well. In nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 2: year Radio one controller asked the station's press guy, Rodney Collins,
Speaker 2: to check whether any papers were planning to print any
Speaker 2: of these rumors, and all the papers said that they
Speaker 2: heard allegations but were unwilling to print them because, whether
Speaker 2: they were true or not, because of his charity work
Speaker 2: in popularity, they didn't want.
Speaker 3: To fuck with it.
Speaker 2: He would persuade the tabloids not to publish the stories
Speaker 2: because they would be responsible for the end of his
Speaker 2: charity fundraising. So Savill is said to have raised forty
Speaker 2: million pounds for charities and that became his effective form
Speaker 2: of emotional blackmail. So anyone that did want to speak up,
Speaker 2: including nurses, tabloids, coworkers, anyone, he would say, if you
Speaker 2: do this, you're the reason this hospital won't get money.
Speaker 2: So if you tell, then you guys don't get millions
Speaker 2: of dollars.
Speaker 1: As if there's no other way to raise funds except
Speaker 1: for this man, Jimmy Saville, Like yeah.
Speaker 3: But it worked, it worked.
Speaker 2: The fundraising got him into everything and just like very
Speaker 2: powerful places. So like in nineteen eighty eight, he was
Speaker 2: even appointed by the Department of Health as the head
Speaker 2: of a task force overseeing broad more the psychiatric hospital
Speaker 2: he worked with, the Department of Health anointed him the
Speaker 2: head of something.
Speaker 1: You know, that's so weird, like you have no medical training,
Speaker 1: Like that's just weird.
Speaker 2: And even still though some people claim they had no
Speaker 2: clue and you don't know if they're being honest or
Speaker 2: protecting themselves or what's going on. But Roger Ordish was
Speaker 2: the producer of one of his shows, Jim Will Fix it,
Speaker 2: which ran between nineteen seventy five and nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2: Like he that's one of his shows on the air
Speaker 2: for decades, Like we know how hard it is to
Speaker 2: just like sell a show.
Speaker 3: That's never even going to be made.
Speaker 2: To have a show for decades, that's a long time.
Speaker 2: And this Roger guy said he suspected no wrongdoing, but
Speaker 2: oftentimes grown men just do not see the signs, Like
Speaker 2: maybe you know, people that are more vulnerable would Yeah,
Speaker 2: but this producer said that one time Jimmy stayed over
Speaker 2: at their family home and he put jim in the
Speaker 2: bedroom next to their fourteen year old daughter. Like that's
Speaker 2: how not suspicious he was. And that Staman's from October
Speaker 2: twenty twelve. He also he thought that Jimmy was actually
Speaker 2: a sex clumsy and naive and like really didn't see anything.
Speaker 2: In two thousand, Louis threw a journalist and a documentary
Speaker 2: filmmaker made a documentary where like he confronted the allegations
Speaker 2: but didn't dig deep.
Speaker 3: Enough and I think he regrets that now.
Speaker 2: But they just talked about the rumors and Saville denied
Speaker 2: all of them, and through visited him in his home
Speaker 2: in Scarborough where Saville's mother lived, and he had many homes.
Speaker 2: He had like I wouldn't say, but he had like
Speaker 2: a ton of homes, more than a handful of homes
Speaker 2: all over and again more places to.
Speaker 3: Fucking less people.
Speaker 2: But in this home that was like where his mom lived,
Speaker 2: and through said that Saville had a continuing attachment to
Speaker 2: her twenty seven years after her death. He would have
Speaker 2: referred to her as the duchess and kept all of
Speaker 2: her clothing and stuff. So, you know, mother son relationship,
Speaker 2: so is difficult. Good luck out there, Kara. There were
Speaker 2: rumors and whispers and murmurs he was a sexual predator,
Speaker 2: but they never stuck and nobody believed that Jimmy could
Speaker 2: do that. Figures from the music and TV industry said
Speaker 2: they all heard rumors. A former record plugger said at
Speaker 2: the radio station at BBC Radio One said that Savill's
Speaker 2: interest of young girls was an open secret in the sixties.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and eight, he was named in a
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight police investigation into abuse at a
Speaker 2: children's home, but nothing came of it. In two thousand
Speaker 2: and nine, the Crown Prosecution Service looked at four allegations
Speaker 2: dating back to nineteen seventy, but decided not to pursue
Speaker 2: a case because the victims would not support police action.
Speaker 2: So I don't really understand that fully, but obviously I
Speaker 2: want to report everything I say.
Speaker 3: It's like they didn't want to press charges.
Speaker 1: Maybe they were worried about like retaliation in some way,
Speaker 1: or they would be too hard for the kid to testify.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is like a classic like where there's smoke,
Speaker 1: there's fire. You just don't have all these accusations about
Speaker 1: somebody when it's totally not true.
Speaker 3: Well except in that sview episode and.
Speaker 1: Distant voices, yes, but that was like in one isolated
Speaker 1: time period.
Speaker 3: This is like over time and time.
Speaker 1: I think that's why she keeps saying, like it's been
Speaker 1: twelve years he's been at this school and nothing, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: but I hear what you're saying. Yeah, So Saville was
Speaker 1: interviewed under caution. Basically he said the allegations have been
Speaker 1: invented by the people and that they just wanted money.
Speaker 3: He just said everyone is after his money, which is.
Speaker 1: What Michael Jackson always was saying. That was always like
Speaker 1: the Michael Jackson defense too, right.
Speaker 3: I never knew that he even made any statements.
Speaker 1: Everybody, well, I think people would that's like how they
Speaker 1: would discredit the witnesses in general, is just say they
Speaker 1: want money.
Speaker 3: And it's like if they were molested and they want money,
Speaker 3: I'm okay with that. You know.
Speaker 2: He threatened to take legal action against the police, and
Speaker 2: he mentioned that he had sued five papers in the past,
Speaker 2: so he threatened legal action. So nothing ever happens, and
Speaker 2: then the handle breaks after his death, So all these
Speaker 2: people sat on the info and he was laid to
Speaker 2: rest very respectfully October twenty ninth, twenty eleven, I mean
Speaker 2: like a full parade, okay. He had a golden casket,
Speaker 2: he like in honor of him. He was a very
Speaker 2: big hero type of funeral. And then like that was
Speaker 2: October twenty nine, and then November all everything came out.
Speaker 2: So everyone kind of sat on this for decades and
Speaker 2: then posts death and it sucks.
Speaker 3: He was eighty four.
Speaker 2: He was able to kind of live this criminal life
Speaker 2: for so long, had a hero funeral.
Speaker 3: Then the stories came out, infuriating.
Speaker 2: One woman recalled Savile sexually assaulting her when she was
Speaker 2: sixteen and that he told her you won't talk about
Speaker 2: this nobody will believe you.
Speaker 3: I'm Jimmy Saville. I can get you.
Speaker 2: She remembers telling her mother, who didn't believe her, and
Speaker 2: she never talked about it again.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: Another account from a woman who was raped by him
Speaker 2: at age twelve said when she complained to a nurse,
Speaker 2: she was told not to say anything otherwise the nurse
Speaker 2: would get in trouble. Another victim than eleven was systemically
Speaker 2: abused by Savil in the hospital chapel during services. That's
Speaker 2: how arrogant this guy was during services. And Malcolm Gladwell,
Speaker 2: in a New Yorker piece about Sandusky, just kind of
Speaker 2: talked about how the most prolific pedophiles are rarely the
Speaker 2: disheveled old man balding offering candy to preschoolers. Rather, pedophiles
Speaker 2: can be agreeable members of the community, and people don't
Speaker 2: believe it because they're well liked without realizing that these
Speaker 2: people are in the business of being likable. And it
Speaker 2: seems like nobody was more liked in the seventies and
Speaker 2: eighties than Jimmy Savile. And so that's just a little tidbit, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: and Mickey Maud, this porn star that I really like
Speaker 2: and an interview somewhere was saying he's like, you know
Speaker 2: people that Clay im porn stars or pedophiles or criminals
Speaker 2: or sexual abusers. He's like, no, we work in an
Speaker 2: adult only space, Like we work with adults only. You
Speaker 2: should be more worried about people that work.
Speaker 3: With children, you know. And that's kind of this thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, be more worried about the likable person, right,
Speaker 2: not what we're always taught, but the truth. In twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: Scotland Yard reveals two hundred and thirteen criminal offenses across
Speaker 2: twenty eight police forces between nineteen fifty five and two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine. Seventy four percent of his victims were children,
Speaker 2: and the allegations of abuse span fourteen medical establishments. And
Speaker 2: an extra little wild thing about him is despite hosting
Speaker 2: a children's television show, he hated children.
Speaker 3: That was part of his personality.
Speaker 2: But it's like, of course you hate children if you're
Speaker 2: abusing children, Like that makes sense.
Speaker 3: But in that.
Speaker 2: Documentary that through did, and I watched a clip of this,
Speaker 2: he asks him like, well, you know, why do you
Speaker 2: why do you hate kids so much?
Speaker 3: Why do you insist on talking about how you hate children?
Speaker 2: And he is quoted saying we live in a very
Speaker 2: funny world and it's easier for me as a single man,
Speaker 2: I say I don't like children, because that puts a
Speaker 2: lot of salacious, tabloid people off the hunt. What an
Speaker 2: innocent sounding answer, you know, like that is so guilty sounding.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So by twenty fourteen, in June, the BBC Panorama confirms
Speaker 2: at least five hundred reports of abuse. The BBC then
Speaker 2: sets up their own three year independent investigation to scrutinize
Speaker 2: its own behavior and culture during the years that employed him,
Speaker 2: and that was from nineteen sixty four to two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven. Dame Janet Smith, a retired judge, concluded in
Speaker 2: her seven hundred page report that he had raped at
Speaker 2: least eight people during his tenure at BBC, including one
Speaker 2: victim who was eight years old. The judge said BBC
Speaker 2: staff members were aware of the complaints against him, but
Speaker 2: the accusations were not conveyed to senior management because of
Speaker 2: a culture of not complaining. Their reverence for the talent
Speaker 2: created conditions that allowed abuse to flourish. She said during
Speaker 2: the process of interviewing people for the reports, they were
Speaker 2: all super scared. Still and there's like an atmosphere of
Speaker 2: fear to speak forward, and people only talked after they
Speaker 2: were guaranteed that their names would not be published in
Speaker 2: the report. Also, people were highly likely not to complain
Speaker 2: because jobs at BBC were highly competitive and a lot
Speaker 2: of employees were freelancers or on short term contracts, which
Speaker 2: adds to their vulnerability. So a lot of people just
Speaker 2: didn't want to speak up because they're easily replaceable and
Speaker 2: they wanted their job. Unrelated to this case, but during
Speaker 2: Dame Janet's reporting and digging in, she issued another report
Speaker 2: against a broadcast guy called Stuart Hall and he abused
Speaker 2: twenty one female victims and that the members of the
Speaker 2: BBC management had known about the behavior. In twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: he was put in prison at eighty six years old,
Speaker 2: but he's already out of prison and the sentence was
Speaker 2: like maybe thirty months. It's so weird. But this is
Speaker 2: why I wanted to add this in. This is how
Speaker 2: confident people are. He cut the pubic hair of one
Speaker 2: of his victims and put the clippings in a picture
Speaker 2: frame on his shelf at BBC premises.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, come on, oh my god, right, pubic
Speaker 1: care trophies on display.
Speaker 2: And this guy's still alive. He's ninety one and out
Speaker 2: of jail and he got out. Yeah that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: He maybe served thirty months, like he.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and he's pissed about is that he had
Speaker 2: to serve time. But back to Savile, The psychologist Oliver
Speaker 2: James wrote that he believed Savile was afflicted with psychopathy, machiavellianism,
Speaker 2: and narcissism, and that he must have had a fantastical
Speaker 2: inner life that like that was super grandiose, wild and
Speaker 2: desperate and then.
Speaker 3: That's the end of that. But then I was watching
Speaker 3: it was a little too much.
Speaker 2: But I was watching the ITV documentary and one of
Speaker 2: the victims of him goes, he fumble around in my
Speaker 2: knickers and I'm like, that's too silly to mean rape,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, it's just.
Speaker 3: Such a fucked up thing.
Speaker 2: But fumble around in my knickers is such a silly sentence.
Speaker 3: But she was describing being assaultant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't let anybody fumble around in your knickers kids.
Speaker 2: No, And can the Brits come up with more serious
Speaker 2: language like this is too silly? But yeah, so that's
Speaker 2: why this case is so fucked and it's stuck with
Speaker 2: me for years, and I was not excited to research it,
Speaker 2: but like to dive a little deeper because it's like, wait,
Speaker 2: so he's a necrophiliac.
Speaker 3: It's like sick children.
Speaker 2: It's all over, it's in the BBC, it's everywhere, and
Speaker 2: for decades, and he does look like a criminal.
Speaker 3: God, that is just so heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: It's just so gross when somebody is allowed to just
Speaker 1: walk around with impunity and then just fucking die without
Speaker 1: ever being punished or really having a day of grief
Speaker 1: in his whole life over his crimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they said, we have a friend like this,
Speaker 2: Hopefully she's not doing fucked up shit. But like he
Speaker 2: liked to keep all his friends separate and all his
Speaker 2: friend groups separate. Oh, and he had all of his
Speaker 2: different houses. Those were all like the friends, and he
Speaker 2: just kept everyone very far apart, so no one got
Speaker 2: to truly know him, and everyone only knew parts of
Speaker 2: him and they couldn't communicate with each other. So he
Speaker 2: was very smart about keeping people separate and not getting
Speaker 2: too close to people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because when your friends com mingle, they start to
Speaker 1: like compare notes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: Wow, well, Lisa, that was terrible, but thank you for
Speaker 1: all your work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's fucked up because it's like, so, now,
Speaker 2: are we supposed to be suspicious of anyone that's charitable?
Speaker 2: I know, anyone that wants to volunteer at a hospital.
Speaker 2: Are we going to raise our eyebrow and follow them around?
Speaker 2: Like where do we draw the line to, Like, are
Speaker 2: you a molester? You just a great person that likes
Speaker 2: to help people?
Speaker 3: You don't know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, more millionaires than millionaires in the hospital helping
Speaker 1: hands on just give checks. You're not allowed to go
Speaker 1: in and be near anybody.
Speaker 3: Sorry.
Speaker 1: Let's check out our interview. I'm excited for who we
Speaker 1: talk to. All Right, I'm so excited for today's guest
Speaker 1: because she played Lizzie Sanderson on a show that I
Speaker 1: famously am obsessed with called The Grinder on Fox. She's
Speaker 1: also been on Criminal Minds, Gray's Anatomy, but you guys
Speaker 1: know her as Brooke Allen from this episode of SBU.
Speaker 3: Check out our little chat ski with Hannah Hayes.
Speaker 2: Hannah, We're so excited you're here.
Speaker 4: It is Hannah, just so you know.
Speaker 3: Oh it's Hannah, thank you, But you.
Speaker 4: Know, what potato potato?
Speaker 3: You know, no as coming to you as a Kara
Speaker 3: who is not a Carra.
Speaker 1: I feel your I feel the struggle, and we will
Speaker 1: absolutely become you understand.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: And I'm a Lisa that's not Eliza, and you only
Speaker 2: have one end.
Speaker 3: It's truly our fault.
Speaker 4: It's from Hannah Maui. That's that's where it.
Speaker 3: Came from, your little Hawaii baby.
Speaker 4: My biological father was born and raised there.
Speaker 6: Oh, I know, I love it. I go almost every birthday.
Speaker 6: I didn't get to go this birthday, but it was.
Speaker 4: It's my favorite. It's one of my favorite places in
Speaker 4: the world.
Speaker 3: What island do you go to?
Speaker 4: Mostly a wahu Okay?
Speaker 6: But and I've never been to hup to Hanna Maui,
Speaker 6: which is just a crime that I haven't been there
Speaker 6: yet because I have been to Hawaii like seventeen times
Speaker 6: in my.
Speaker 4: Life, but I've just never made it to the road
Speaker 4: to Hanna. So that's definitely on the bucket list.
Speaker 3: And were you always theater kid? Acting? When did you
Speaker 3: get into it?
Speaker 6: I didn't come from a family that was very theatrical.
Speaker 6: My grandmother is you know, she's amazing. She should have
Speaker 6: been kind of been a movie star, so I kind
Speaker 6: of got that from her. But it's been fostered from
Speaker 6: a very young age.
Speaker 4: But I was never like in the right environment for it.
Speaker 6: But when I was ten, I kind of entered myself
Speaker 6: in an acting competition out of like they like trained
Speaker 6: in Tucson, Arizona, and then there was a big contest
Speaker 6: I'm sure, I don't know if you've heard of it,
Speaker 6: Like I amta it's like where all the Barbizon kind
Speaker 6: of goes there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is exciting. I did that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did that, and I like.
Speaker 6: Won a couple things, and my mom was like, I mean,
Speaker 6: you know, she had me at forty four. She was like, I.
Speaker 4: Guess I'll retire and we can do your thing out here.
Speaker 4: And I was like, let's.
Speaker 6: Go, girl, And we moved to La when I was ten.
Speaker 6: It was supposed to be for six months and it
Speaker 6: ended up being ten years.
Speaker 3: So wow.
Speaker 2: So the show obviously shoots in New York. Did you
Speaker 2: did your mom go with you? She had to be
Speaker 2: on set. You were young, right, yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: How old were you were? You like thirteen?
Speaker 4: I think I was fifteen?
Speaker 3: Oh fifteen.
Speaker 4: I'm not positive. It's kind of bulblurs.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I taped it in Santa Monica, pait my audition,
Speaker 6: and then.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we flew out to New York and it was great.
Speaker 2: Were you a fan of SVU before you did the
Speaker 2: show or no?
Speaker 6: I mean, of course, like I would sneak and watch
Speaker 6: it at my you know, if my grandma had it
Speaker 6: on or someone had gone.
Speaker 4: I love to watch it.
Speaker 6: And I think Marishka is just amazing in every possible
Speaker 6: conceivable way, and so I knew her more so than
Speaker 6: like you like watch the show, So that's I was
Speaker 6: really excited to work with her.
Speaker 4: That was like my number one thing.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I saw it every you know, in passing,
Speaker 6: and I think it's amazing. But honestly, those procedurals and
Speaker 6: just they give me nightmares. They give me so many nightmares,
Speaker 6: and so I have to.
Speaker 4: Be careful, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we definitely have had issues with going to bed
Speaker 1: right after doing research on these crimes and having some
Speaker 1: wild dreams.
Speaker 3: So I'm sure we feel that.
Speaker 2: Do you ever get nightmares listening to our podcast or
Speaker 2: my favorite murder?
Speaker 6: Well, I have a rule, So my rule is I
Speaker 6: can only listen to them in the morning, because you know,
Speaker 6: as we said, before it gets it gets kind of
Speaker 6: scary later at night. So I've adopted my grandmother's rule
Speaker 6: of like making.
Speaker 4: Sure I laugh before I go to bed.
Speaker 6: So I'll always watch like Seinfeld or listen to like
Speaker 6: a funny podcast before I go to bed, and save
Speaker 6: my murder podcast for it the morning when it's light
Speaker 6: outside and I don't have to worry about what's under
Speaker 6: my bed.
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's talk about your turn on this episode
Speaker 1: Dissonant Voices. You're this like innocent little blondie until you're not.
Speaker 1: You're very diabolical, right, Your character should have focused on acting,
Speaker 1: because just quite a few scenes where she's talking about
Speaker 1: the hard strings, like we think she's been molested. How
Speaker 1: did you get into the headspace to play such a
Speaker 1: like unhinged teenager?
Speaker 4: Gosh, that's a really good question.
Speaker 1: Or were you an unhinged teenager and it wasn't that
Speaker 1: much of a stretch.
Speaker 4: No, I was not an unhinged teenager at all.
Speaker 6: Like I'm a very strict rule follower, you know, I
Speaker 6: like to think I have a very strong moral compass,
Speaker 6: and so that it was far from from my everyday life.
Speaker 4: Thank goodness.
Speaker 6: So I think in scenes like that, in the scene
Speaker 6: where I'm sitting on the bed and Marishka's there and
Speaker 6: I'm talking about mister Jackie and how.
Speaker 4: He may have touched me and or.
Speaker 6: He did, you know, I say he did, I just
Speaker 6: kind of put myself in a place where it's like,
Speaker 6: this is the truth. The character has to believe that
Speaker 6: this is the truth in order for the scene to play,
Speaker 6: in order for the pivot to be so like to
Speaker 6: be so jarring for the audience.
Speaker 4: So Meisner is the main kind of method that I use.
Speaker 6: And so just kind of like having an intention and
Speaker 6: like creating my truth for the scene and then kind
Speaker 6: of playing off of.
Speaker 4: The other actors in the scene.
Speaker 6: So that's that's kind of I created my own little
Speaker 6: reality for each one of those scenes, and it mostly
Speaker 6: was like, this is the truth, this is what happened.
Speaker 6: This girl is having such like a psychological break from
Speaker 6: from not getting on American Diva that she has like
Speaker 6: spun this this truth for herself to kind of help cope.
Speaker 4: And she sometimes you know.
Speaker 6: If you tell yourself something enough, you kind of believe
Speaker 6: it to be true. And so that's kind of the
Speaker 6: stance that I took in the in the beginning and
Speaker 6: then kind of what it starts to unravel, like, you know,
Speaker 6: I dealt with that separately, but that's kind of what
Speaker 6: I did for the majority of the episode.
Speaker 3: And then how was it?
Speaker 2: What was the process for the like final freak out
Speaker 2: scene where you're in interrogation, your mom's there and everything
Speaker 2: like that is so good?
Speaker 3: It was so exciting.
Speaker 4: Thank you. I mean, yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 6: And Kelly Kiddish was so helpful for me in that
Speaker 6: scene because you know what we saw on on you know,
Speaker 6: in the final cut, she was she was angry and
Speaker 6: she was like trying to pick at me, but she
Speaker 6: was pretty composed, right, But when I was on my
Speaker 6: coverage instead of like she really helped me. I'm trying
Speaker 6: to articulate it, but like she was like screaming at me.
Speaker 6: She was screaming at me, saying a whole bunch of
Speaker 6: stuff to help me like understand that like this is
Speaker 6: I'm caught, Like this is over, you know, and this
Speaker 6: reality that I've created is just crumbling around me. And
Speaker 6: that that to be in that headspace for that character,
Speaker 6: it was it was really intense, you know, it was
Speaker 6: really intense because now.
Speaker 4: You know, fifteen year old girl's.
Speaker 6: Worst nightmare should be like in a perfect world, like
Speaker 6: you know, not being able to find the right pair
Speaker 6: of shoes or whatever.
Speaker 4: You know, like, but in this, in this scene.
Speaker 6: This girl has put herself in a position where, you know,
Speaker 6: she could go to jail. The rest of her life
Speaker 6: is ruined. She is ruined a man's career, She has
Speaker 6: ruined de Mand's entire life. And I don't think she
Speaker 6: understands the gravity of her actions until that moment, and
Speaker 6: it's very profound and terrifying, like she, I don't know,
Speaker 6: just breaks and so that's kind of what I did.
Speaker 6: And when I was screaming like I didn't do this
Speaker 6: to mister Jackie, like he did this to me, you know,
Speaker 6: like this isn't my fault. That's like so crazy. It
Speaker 6: just shows how warped her perception of the world is.
Speaker 1: What was it like working with your little brother Jonah,
Speaker 1: He was very cute, he was.
Speaker 4: So cute, he was fabulous. Oh my gosh him and
Speaker 4: his name escapes me right now. With the other little boy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Cooper is the character. I don't know his real name, Cooper.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Cooper and Noah.
Speaker 6: They were both just so precious and I loved like
Speaker 6: when we were on set, we all had to do
Speaker 6: school at that age. You know, it was really nice
Speaker 6: because I don't think they had any idea like the
Speaker 6: gravity of what was going on, you know, the characters
Speaker 6: that they were playing, which I think is so important,
Speaker 6: especially at that age. You know, like they went in
Speaker 6: and they did their stuff, but then afterwards they were like,
Speaker 6: do you want to go play hot wheels? You know,
Speaker 6: and so it was it was great. They were just
Speaker 6: absolutely precious.
Speaker 3: That's so cute. And are you a singer? Do you
Speaker 3: sing at all?
Speaker 4: You know? I dabble.
Speaker 6: I I'm writing an album right now, and my friend
Speaker 6: is yeah, which is like super random. It was something
Speaker 6: that I did kind of like as therapy, Like I
Speaker 6: find writing to be very therapeutic. And one of my
Speaker 6: friends is a super super talented producer in LA and
Speaker 6: so I was like, hey, here's some that I've just
Speaker 6: been playing around with and I can't read music, but
Speaker 6: I like to sing this, and he was like, let's
Speaker 6: do an album.
Speaker 4: Like we should definitely do that. So I'm actually recording
Speaker 4: an album when I go back to LA.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. So you are a singer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 6: Actor first and foremost, but I love all things creative,
Speaker 6: you know, So.
Speaker 2: Any other stories from set that you think that someone
Speaker 2: like you would want to hear Iced Tea?
Speaker 3: What was iced Tea was his viol Oh.
Speaker 6: We haven't even talked about how improv calling Iced tea bitch.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't know who you improvised that.
Speaker 6: That's amazing I did, and it was quite bold of
Speaker 6: me in retrospect, quite bold.
Speaker 4: I was just like, in that moment, I see was fabulous.
Speaker 6: So his wife was amazing, their dogs were incredible, nothing
Speaker 6: but fabulous things to say.
Speaker 4: But it was so funny because.
Speaker 6: In that last take, I don't know what came over me,
Speaker 6: but I was just like he just like he's said
Speaker 6: something like you must be.
Speaker 4: Really proud of your daughter.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then I just did without even I mean
Speaker 6: I think I like blacked out, like I just was like,
Speaker 6: bitch and then just walked out. It made the final
Speaker 6: cut like it and so and I walked on the
Speaker 6: door and he goes, did she just.
Speaker 3: Call me a bitch?
Speaker 6: And I was like, I was.
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, I just called them a bit.
Speaker 6: So that was definitely one for a moment for the
Speaker 6: for the memory books.
Speaker 1: You know, amazing, not that many people get to fucking
Speaker 1: call I see a bitch.
Speaker 3: Congratulations.
Speaker 2: Well, also, we should have talked about this up top,
Speaker 2: but you did send us amazing presents, and I couldn't
Speaker 2: believe it.
Speaker 1: First guest to have sent us presents just to heads
Speaker 1: up to four future guests.
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 6: Well, I'd like that he put somewhere you know, my name,
Speaker 6: like a plaque or something.
Speaker 3: No, I love it. So for yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: We got Alexander Dumas books and they're like classic. I
Speaker 2: feel like, so, I haven't held a book like this
Speaker 2: since so long. So I'm wondering, are you a vintage
Speaker 2: person or you a crime reader?
Speaker 3: Or are you?
Speaker 2: But like, how did you find this? How do you
Speaker 2: know we would love it? What's your vibe?
Speaker 6: Okay, well, I think I thought you would love it
Speaker 6: because obviously I listened to the podcast every week religiously.
Speaker 6: But I love thrifting. It's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 6: Like I most everything I wear is either like a
Speaker 6: family heirloom like my rings or whatever, or thrifted like
Speaker 6: my whole outfit whatever, And so I love to go
Speaker 6: to Savers.
Speaker 4: It's really my happy place. And wherever there's a Savers.
Speaker 6: I've heard there was a Savers here in Rhode Island,
Speaker 6: Like I cannot wait to go. So I was in
Speaker 6: sabers in twoson Arizona, and I was looking through all
Speaker 6: the old books and I saw those and I was like,
Speaker 6: this looks like it would kind of be in their wheelhouse.
Speaker 4: And so I brought them home.
Speaker 6: Dusted a moth, used to a little lisole, and and then.
Speaker 4: I wrapped them with I got.
Speaker 6: I also got this really cool like Life magazine coffee
Speaker 6: table book.
Speaker 4: There, and I think I used some of the pictures
Speaker 4: from that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like we were like we realized later we were
Speaker 1: like the wrapping is on theme too, like it was
Speaker 1: amazing tension to detail.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just wrapped them up in that and I
Speaker 6: just I, you know, I like to show my appreciation
Speaker 6: and anyway, like I just anyway I can so.
Speaker 3: And then Kara loves the grinder. I love the grinder. Grider. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I love the grinder too.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I've talked about it more than once on this podcast,
Speaker 1: but I've definitely said, like, what a crime that people
Speaker 1: did not discover that show, like truly, like it was
Speaker 1: so so funny. I loved it so much. When I
Speaker 1: got canceled, I was devastated. But how was that experience?
Speaker 4: It was absolutely like unreal. I mean it was unreal.
Speaker 6: I met some of my best friends in Los Angeles,
Speaker 6: like Connor who played my little brother, Like he and
Speaker 6: I are still close. I was literally at his house
Speaker 6: the last day I was in LA And his older
Speaker 6: sister is like a close friend of mine. That whole
Speaker 6: family's amazing. So it just gave me so many gifts,
Speaker 6: you know, Like Johnny Lowe and I still talk. I
Speaker 6: think he's incredible. And just to get a little personal
Speaker 6: for a minute, like I just got sober two and
Speaker 6: a half months ago, just because you know, it just wasn't.
Speaker 4: Serving me anymore.
Speaker 6: And and so he's sober and like taught, Like you know,
Speaker 6: he's public about that, so I wouldn't say anything if
Speaker 6: it wasn't public. But like you know, I just I
Speaker 6: have such a great support group from that from that show,
Speaker 6: like Mary Elizabeth who played My Mama, Like we're still intact.
Speaker 6: I'm gonna I just sent with the same day I
Speaker 6: sent you guys your present. I sent her like a present,
Speaker 6: and I sent her the little Son to present and
Speaker 6: and and we're gonna get coffee when I come back.
Speaker 6: Like there's just so many like just amazing, hardworking people
Speaker 6: that made that show possible. And I'm just feel like
Speaker 6: super fortunate honestly, Like I I to be on that
Speaker 6: show at the age that I was gave me a
Speaker 6: level of self confidence that like I was so like
Speaker 6: tiny and.
Speaker 4: Had no idea what was going on, and like so insecure.
Speaker 6: And like the women on that show, like Maya Rudolph
Speaker 6: and Mary Elizabeth and Natalie Morales, like they really were
Speaker 6: so empowering.
Speaker 4: They were so empowering.
Speaker 6: And kind of like helped me see that like I
Speaker 6: belonged there, you know, like I deserved to be there.
Speaker 4: I worked hard to be there. And Natalie Morales, I
Speaker 4: was just I just did her movie plan.
Speaker 3: B Oh amazing. Did you direct that?
Speaker 4: She directed it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Cool. So for me, Grinder was kind of like the
Speaker 6: beginning really the beginning of like all of my closest
Speaker 6: friendships in La.
Speaker 3: Hannah was incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we always we're enjoying talking to these young actors
Speaker 1: who are like good people. It's giving me faith in
Speaker 1: the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like, we edited this out from the interview,
Speaker 2: but she was like in a bed and that was
Speaker 2: kind of exciting. Maybe she didn't want people to know,
Speaker 2: but it felt loungey, it felt cool. She was on
Speaker 2: vacation where Taylor Swift has a home. It just was
Speaker 2: a high class interview all around. And I want to
Speaker 2: watch The Grinder now.
Speaker 3: Yes, love the Grinder so much, and that she improvised
Speaker 3: the bitch line. Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: Yes, this is the kind of behind the scenes gold
Speaker 1: that we're bringing to you on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I forgot to mention this up top,
Speaker 2: but I have huge news. I caught up and I
Speaker 2: finished this last season of SVU.
Speaker 3: I saw the Careesi rollins kiss. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I saw the psychopath boy come back and kill his family.
Speaker 3: So I thought people would.
Speaker 2: What was your thoughts on the kiss? Anti climactic honestly,
Speaker 2: but happy.
Speaker 3: I hope it.
Speaker 2: I hope I hope it continued. I hope I hope
Speaker 2: he gets what he wants. I hope she's able to
Speaker 2: receive the love she deserves and he's able to have
Speaker 2: the family that he's always wanted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if, like in the new season, they're
Speaker 1: going to like disclose to Olivia or like keep it secret,
Speaker 1: or they all.
Speaker 3: Watch them kiss. They all watched it kiss.
Speaker 2: You think Benson, one of the greatest detectives of our time, at.
Speaker 3: Our back turn the whole time while they were making.
Speaker 2: Out, doesn't know that there's chemistry when Careese's like, only
Speaker 2: rollins is good. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely not the thing.
Speaker 3: I also have one other big set of news, but
Speaker 3: I forgot.
Speaker 1: So what did we Let's do our post mortem on
Speaker 1: this episode. What did we learn? What I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess we've learned people in power do abuse their power
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 3: A s F.
Speaker 1: You decided to flip this episode to the point like
Speaker 1: where this is a false activisation, but.
Speaker 3: So flip because that's what's so tough is.
Speaker 2: Black men are falsely accused all the time, and there's
Speaker 2: like you, centuries of history.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there, yes, there are centuries I mean Emmett till
Speaker 1: there's centuries of racism of white women accusing black men
Speaker 1: of doing things that they did not do. And that's
Speaker 1: essentially what happened here. I mean, it was white children,
Speaker 1: but they were it was all being masterminded by a
Speaker 1: white woman, a white teen.
Speaker 2: And also Carrie, you better watch what you do around Rosy.
Speaker 2: So she's not out there false accusing black powerful man.
Speaker 1: I mean, Rosie would never because Rosie's going to be
Speaker 1: on American Diva and she's going to win American Diva
Speaker 1: because I am her tiger mom. No, just kidding, Are
Speaker 1: you kidding? Rosie's playing rugby and you know it. I
Speaker 1: know she's so I can't even tell if she can sing.
Speaker 1: She likes to sing, but I can't tell if she
Speaker 1: can carry a Tuneya, I don't know how soon they
Speaker 1: do that?
Speaker 3: Do you really want her to? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think two is too young to decide if they're
Speaker 2: going to be singers for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 1: Well, the woman on this episode was like, I saw
Speaker 1: a kid on the internet who was three singing opera.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's you know one kid. Yeah that's not your mine. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's not mine, that's not yeah, I can't who knows.
Speaker 2: Maybe Rosie will be an opera singer.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, bust out an aria here and there. I guess
Speaker 1: I learned that. Like if you're having a horrible, drag
Speaker 1: out divorce with your husband, like just keep an eye
Speaker 1: on your kids because they're following a lot of your
Speaker 1: diabolical tactics.
Speaker 3: Like I remember the next thing I was going to
Speaker 3: say that was in my heart and mind.
Speaker 2: Okay, remember the iced tea titty sucking comment from last week?
Speaker 2: Wait what Ice teammate a social media posts being like, oh,
Speaker 2: I said my daughter we both like to suck on
Speaker 2: Coco's titties. And everyone was like Ice, could you just
Speaker 2: what is happening? And then he wrote whatever I guess
Speaker 2: you know about my family. I'm a tit guy.
Speaker 1: It's like and like, yeah, babe, they like they posted
Speaker 1: at they posted a like I'm I love We obviously
Speaker 1: love Chanelle's Instagram. We stand her, but it was a
Speaker 1: little weird to have, like to have her speaking at
Speaker 1: Like the captions are like in her voice, Like I
Speaker 1: have an Instagram for Rosie and I never write anything
Speaker 1: in her voice. I just write like Saturday fun or
Speaker 1: like very generic stuff because like I never assume that
Speaker 1: she's saying something, And like this whole caption is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I breastfeed for my mom and I'm five. It's like
Speaker 1: she might not like that when she's fifteen. Just heads up,
Speaker 1: like that is amazing. Also shout out to the drinks.
Speaker 1: They just had a baby.
Speaker 2: Okay, anyways, Episode dissonant voices.
Speaker 3: What did we learn?
Speaker 2: I guess if you're gonna use a vibrator illegally and
Speaker 2: commit crimes, don't hide it with the rest of the toys.
Speaker 3: I don't you know what I mean, hide your crimes
Speaker 3: or to the police.
Speaker 2: If there's an evidence thing that's so blatant, it's fake,
Speaker 2: it's set.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a setup.
Speaker 2: If there's gone girl evidence that's so over the top,
Speaker 2: you gotta you gotta suspect. Okay, Like if someone's abusing
Speaker 2: kids and has gotten away with it, they're not leaving
Speaker 2: the vibrator.
Speaker 3: With the maraccas. Okay, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Will say something I learned this episode was like a
Speaker 1: little bit more respect. I learned myself a little bit
Speaker 1: more respect for Rollins. I kind of feel like there's
Speaker 1: some episodes that are Rollins heavy that are turning me
Speaker 1: around on Rollins a little bit. She knew from the
Speaker 1: beginning that this didn't pass the smell test. She knew
Speaker 1: at the beginning that this was like seemed a little
Speaker 1: bit weird.
Speaker 3: I never Oh my god, men's health, Carara, where have
Speaker 3: you been.
Speaker 1: Like, God, Liza, this is the most unhinged post mortem
Speaker 1: we have ever done.
Speaker 3: But I'm loving. Well, this is what happens when we're
Speaker 3: not three blocks away.
Speaker 1: I know this is Yes, the Men's Health, Maloney's PR team.
Speaker 3: Give them all the awards.
Speaker 1: I mean they are the summer of Maloney is just
Speaker 1: raging on, like just when you think it's over. Oh,
Speaker 1: his co star who I love this girl his co
Speaker 1: star on OC named Ainsley Seeger I think is her name.
Speaker 1: She's amazing. She I think she listened to our podcast.
Speaker 1: She follows she got the earrings that like the tiny
Speaker 1: made ear rings that are of Maloney and yes, order Peam,
Speaker 1: you got them?
Speaker 3: You got them? Ahlet re order them. They're on the way,
Speaker 3: tiny maid. We're coming.
Speaker 2: Then, thanks for all the listeners tagging us in them,
Speaker 2: because I will have those earrings soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But she wore them two set and took like video
Speaker 1: to see how long it was until he noticed and
Speaker 1: then he like, I think it took like fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: or something for him to notice that she was wearing
Speaker 1: him as ear rings.
Speaker 3: And how did he react?
Speaker 1: They like took Q photos together. She was like detailing
Speaker 1: the whole thing on her Twitter. It was really funny.
Speaker 1: And then like just like so, just as like the
Speaker 1: Mabelene picture is starting to fade, that starts happening. Then
Speaker 1: just as that's fading, Men's Health comes out. It's like this, man,
Speaker 1: we're never gonna get when it's never gonna be over.
Speaker 3: I love the Men's Health one.
Speaker 2: I felt like the interview one was very gay gay oriented, like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm your daddy, you know. Yeah, I'm wearing pink, I'm
Speaker 2: eating pizza, a little crop top, Fuck me, daddy. I
Speaker 2: feel Men's Health is very heteronormative sexual.
Speaker 3: I'm sure the gays are into it.
Speaker 1: And it's also very like, look how good you can
Speaker 1: look at sixty. I think it's like it's like all
Speaker 1: about his age and how he looks so fucking good
Speaker 1: for his age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the split I really was into that. I really
Speaker 2: really liked it. I was actually at the comedy store
Speaker 2: last week with Seratia and a few people and they
Speaker 2: hadn't seen it, but they like SVU, so I brought
Speaker 2: it up and then I liked it in front of
Speaker 2: them and they all thought it was so funny and
Speaker 2: started laughing at me because they're like, wow, you're just
Speaker 2: they thought it was vulnerable to like something in front
Speaker 2: of an audience, like in front of them, And I
Speaker 2: was like, I don't care.
Speaker 3: I like it while you're looking or not looking.
Speaker 1: Like all their likes are surreptitious, like in bed, like
Speaker 1: in the dark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like they started laughing at me for
Speaker 2: like liking it. I was like, I like it. I
Speaker 2: don't know what to say, but yeah, that was like
Speaker 2: sexy as hell.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, that man knows how to take a photograph and
Speaker 1: do a split and lift weights. I mean he does
Speaker 1: a lot of things really well.
Speaker 3: And you're right, six he looks hotter.
Speaker 2: I think he looks hotter and more built now than before,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think this is like new season.
Speaker 1: He's going into oc with like a full like not beer,
Speaker 1: but like full go tea.
Speaker 3: It's like a fold. It's not like a little go t.
Speaker 3: It's a full go tea.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, go go go oh nothing go white lotus. Oh.
Speaker 1: And I was gonna say the Woodstock Documentary, we were
Speaker 1: not allowed to each the part for this long, like
Speaker 1: we just read just circled around and are doing another
Speaker 1: intro right now.
Speaker 2: We'll just in a voice we'll talk about White Lotus
Speaker 2: next week because we have seen the finale.
Speaker 3: And then we can't really get into it perfect. We
Speaker 3: won't doil.
Speaker 2: But if you haven't seen White Lotus, yeah, there is
Speaker 2: a little true crime element hidden, I would say, yeah,
Speaker 2: but scathing, dark satire genius show.
Speaker 3: It's so good.
Speaker 1: It's so fucking good. Like the whole vibe, the acting
Speaker 1: is so good. Uh, you kind of hate everybody on it,
Speaker 1: but you love it. I don't know, I love it.
Speaker 1: It's so good. Let's segue into Let's sister Peglan. Just
Speaker 1: think of one more thing we learned from this episode.
Speaker 3: I guess I didn't realize you have to take voice
Speaker 3: lessons that much. Five voice lessons, you know. I He's like,
Speaker 3: if you really want to, I know.
Speaker 1: It's it's weird because it's like I think we all
Speaker 1: watched Kelly Clarkson win and she was just like a
Speaker 1: Texast girl with a great voice, and now she's like
Speaker 1: a huge recording artist, but she just like wandered on
Speaker 1: to you know, American idol. I think that it used
Speaker 1: to be probably more anybody could walk off on the
Speaker 1: street with like a like a great talent, but now
Speaker 1: it's like, if you're like a teenager and you want
Speaker 1: to like make it and you want to get on one.
Speaker 3: Of these shows, Yeah, you get a vocal coach and
Speaker 3: you fucking.
Speaker 2: Like Edwards dancers are going to be in America's got talent.
Speaker 2: They have been before, I believe, and I know they're
Speaker 2: going to be again. And I watched her full show
Speaker 2: Dancing Queen.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: I've been rewatchingdrag Race NonStop and it is just so
Speaker 2: soothing and so powerful and so good, so good.
Speaker 1: I gotta get going on another season. I finished both
Speaker 1: seasons of UK. I've just finished Australia before I left
Speaker 1: on this trip. Anyway, we got to end. Now, this
Speaker 1: is it. Now we're fully into what we're watching again,
Speaker 1: like we can't stop talking about it.
Speaker 2: I just gasped because I thought maybe it's Thursday and
Speaker 2: there would be more drag Race.
Speaker 1: But okay, oh I'm not caught up on last week's
Speaker 1: All Stars, by the way, So no spoilers.
Speaker 3: I have no idea who got sent home. No spoilers.
Speaker 2: Listen dissonant voices, do your voice listens. Don't false accuse
Speaker 2: black man. You can false accuse a white man here
Speaker 2: and there, just to keep life interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, a great episode. Get vaccinated. But also, I
Speaker 1: mean what we learned from like Jimmy Savile and that
Speaker 1: whole crime was that like don't I don't know, Like
Speaker 1: I hope people can come forward even though like there's
Speaker 1: horrible like listen to power and celebrity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone is a molester. Everyone, Everyone is a sexual
Speaker 2: abuser unless proven otherwise. That's how we have to live life.
Speaker 2: Unless it's Billy Porter, No, nothing makes sense. You're right,
Speaker 2: this is a very unhinged episode. But yeah, I was
Speaker 2: so focused on the episode and everything else we've been watching,
Speaker 2: I forgot that there's an actual crime spanning decades.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we.
Speaker 2: All if you have kids, if you're a teacher, anything
Speaker 2: like you, we have to be more conscious of how
Speaker 2: we talk about Like when the Kavanaugh stuff was happening,
Speaker 2: I remember being so distraught because I was like, there
Speaker 2: are kids that are being abused right now that are
Speaker 2: listening to their parents talk shit about doctor Blassie Ford.
Speaker 3: And you know how Kavanaugh's.
Speaker 2: Great, and like these kids, like kids see what's happening,
Speaker 2: and you are making it tougher for them to come.
Speaker 2: I don't think our listeners, but it's just like fucking
Speaker 2: know how you like act better when someone comes forward
Speaker 2: with some information like that and stop fucking not coming
Speaker 2: forward for jobs or for newspaper articles or chairs like fucking.
Speaker 1: We got to stop protecting celebrities. And no one gets
Speaker 1: a key to a hospital. How about that?
Speaker 2: You, Yeah, how much you donate, you don't get open
Speaker 2: access to a psychiatric hospital.
Speaker 1: In your own room to be your little molesting hotel room.
Speaker 2: And you know what, sometimes you go to judge a
Speaker 2: book by its cover. Okay, if you look like Jimmy Savill,
Speaker 2: maybe I don't get why people just kept it kept
Speaker 2: it moving. It's a scary person.
Speaker 3: So true.
Speaker 1: All right, let's let's really truly move on to what
Speaker 1: would sister peg do.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, Mike White, who wrote White
Speaker 2: Lotus wrote Orange County, one of my favorite movies in
Speaker 2: Skyler Fisk, who's from Taboo SVU is in it.
Speaker 3: So if you need something to do.
Speaker 1: Ties right back to the White Lotus conversation from minutes earlier.
Speaker 3: Okay, what was its third Times of Charm?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we talk to you
Speaker 1: guys about a organization. We give you a book or
Speaker 1: an article or something that can kind of help you
Speaker 1: flesh out the topic that we touched on in this
Speaker 1: week's episode. We've mentioned this organization before, but I think
Speaker 1: they're worth mentioning again. We're going to highlight RAIN, which
Speaker 1: is the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network. It's the
Speaker 1: nation's largest anti sexual violence organization. They have a national
Speaker 1: sexual Assault hotline which is eight hundred and sixty five
Speaker 1: six HOPE, in partnership with more than one thousand local
Speaker 1: sexual assault service providers across the country. They do tons
Speaker 1: of different programs to prevent sexual violence, help survivors, and
Speaker 1: ensure that perpetrators are brought to justice. So we always
Speaker 1: like to support RAIN. And their website is www dot RAIN.
Speaker 1: That's our ai NN dot org.
Speaker 2: It's really inappropriate because this is such a great organization,
Speaker 2: but in my head I just kept going RAIN on me. Okay,
Speaker 2: next week's episode will be Patrimonial Burden.
Speaker 3: That is straight from the request line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been getting a lot of requests for that baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Season seventeen, episode seven, Join us on that journey Hulu
Speaker 2: Peacock and what is it? A VPN stick if you're
Speaker 2: in Germany or England or Yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Have to just go get a VPN.
Speaker 1: If you live in another country and you want to
Speaker 1: get these episodes, basically you pretend you're in America.
Speaker 2: Andy. You keep sending us stuff on Instagram and writing
Speaker 2: to each other and us and filling us in on
Speaker 2: everything that's happening in the sv world and dragging.
Speaker 1: And if you're not following us on Instagram, follow us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at That's Mussed Up Pod because Lisa is
Speaker 1: fucking turning it out with these games and the stories.
Speaker 3: They're so good.
Speaker 1: I felt, they're really fun, I felt, and if you
Speaker 1: miss them when they were twenty four hours, I saved
Speaker 1: them as a highlight so that you can always go through.
Speaker 1: You can't vote anymore, but you can go through and
Speaker 1: see how like the matchups did and it's still fun
Speaker 1: and in your mind you can make your choices.
Speaker 3: But that's We'll see you guys next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank.
Speaker 3: And at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton.
Speaker 1: And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson.
Speaker 2: And to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly
Speaker 2: Jean Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Listen, subscribe, leave us a review.
Speaker 2: On Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: If you're an advertiser interested in advertised thing on our show,
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Speaker 5: Done.
Speaker 3: Done h