WEBVTT - From the Vault: The Sunken Lands, Part 4

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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<v Speaker 1>name is Joe McCormick. Today we're going to finish out

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<v Speaker 1>the Vault series that we've been running this week. This

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<v Speaker 1>is part four of our series called The Sunken Lands.

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<v Speaker 1>This originally published on December seventh, twenty twenty three. Hope

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<v Speaker 1>you enjoy.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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<v Speaker 3>name is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 1>And I am Joe McCormick. And we are back with

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<v Speaker 1>the fourth and final part in our series called the

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<v Speaker 1>Sunken Lands, about places on Earth that relatively recently used

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<v Speaker 1>to be dry land but are now covered by water now.

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<v Speaker 1>In previous parts of the series we talked about, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>legendary lands of this sort Atlantis and other fictional or

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<v Speaker 1>mythical sunken civilizations. And sorry to be a bummer to

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<v Speaker 1>the many Atlantis hunters out there, but yes, it does

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<v Speaker 1>seem like the experts on the original sources that this

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<v Speaker 1>story comes from, namely a couple of dialogues of Plato,

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<v Speaker 1>think that it probably is a fictional invention and not

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<v Speaker 1>a reference to a real place that existed but that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean that there are not lands that have been

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<v Speaker 1>within the history of the human species submerged by water.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, we know of some examples of places that

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<v Speaker 1>were both inhabited by humans and sunk under the water,

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<v Speaker 1>not really anything like was described in the Atlantis story,

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<v Speaker 1>but there are examples of the sunken land masses of

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<v Speaker 1>Beringia and dogger Land, which during and briefly after the

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<v Speaker 1>Last Ice Age formed land bridges between North America and Asia,

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<v Speaker 1>and Great Britain and continental Europe perspectively. We also talked

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<v Speaker 1>about vanished islands in the Pacific. Some of these supposedly

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<v Speaker 1>vanished islands are probably a result of errors in their

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<v Speaker 1>original reporting, but others are places that probably actually did

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<v Speaker 1>vanish or sink beneath the water due to cataclysmic seismic activity.

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<v Speaker 1>We also talked about atolls, how they're formed, and where

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<v Speaker 1>their central islands went. There was a hypothesis that Darwin

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<v Speaker 1>had about this going all the way back to his

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<v Speaker 1>voyage on the Beagle. There are new ideas related to

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<v Speaker 1>karcification and the dissolution of carbonate rock or limestone when

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<v Speaker 1>it's exposed over the surface of the sea. Dissolution by

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<v Speaker 1>rain water. And then also finally, in the last episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about places that have been flooded by damming,

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<v Speaker 1>the damming of freshwater resources, damming rivers and streams to

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<v Speaker 1>end up submerging areas that used to be exposed land

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<v Speaker 1>now under lakes.

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<v Speaker 3>Now. A quick note on just the idea of sunken

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<v Speaker 3>islands and sunken lands. We had a listener ask about

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<v Speaker 3>this and discord, so I want to just briefly point

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<v Speaker 3>out that, especially in our discussion of atolls in the

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<v Speaker 3>last episode, the terms sunk in or to sink may

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<v Speaker 3>ultimately be too simplistic for these discussions because they're all

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<v Speaker 3>very based on the human perspective of what's going on.

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<v Speaker 3>And in any case, we're talking about situations that may

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<v Speaker 3>entail both rising and lowering sea levels, as well as

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<v Speaker 3>land that is pushed up and or created by volcanic, organic,

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<v Speaker 3>or seismic forces, and land that lowers sometimes beneath water

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<v Speaker 3>level due to erosion, seismic forces, etc. So just in

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<v Speaker 3>all cases, just keep in mind that, yeah, sunk in

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<v Speaker 3>sinking maybe doesn't fully capture the picture of what's going on.

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<v Speaker 1>Well. Actually, as luck would have it, I do want

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<v Speaker 1>to get to one example of actual sinking of lands

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<v Speaker 1>in just a bit here. So in the background of

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<v Speaker 1>discussing these historical cases of landscapes covered by rising seas,

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<v Speaker 1>there is the knowledge that most of us have now

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<v Speaker 1>that relatively rapid increases in sea level are happening right

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<v Speaker 1>now and will continue in the coming decades due to

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<v Speaker 1>climate change, due to the warming of the seas, the

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<v Speaker 1>melting of glaciers. Sea level changes have happened on Earth before.

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<v Speaker 1>But one thing that's different now is how much of

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<v Speaker 1>the physical infrastructure and culture of modern human civilization was

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<v Speaker 1>designed on the assumption of current sea levels staying where

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<v Speaker 1>they are. Whole cities, whole countries even are threatened by

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<v Speaker 1>rising waters because they have been built without those rising

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<v Speaker 1>waters in mind.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, some of the very places we've discussed, at least

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<v Speaker 3>in passing in these episodes, like the Maldives, are greatly

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<v Speaker 3>threatened by these rising sea waters.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, absolutely, But of course this applies to coastal settlements

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<v Speaker 1>all over the world, on every continent on Earth, though

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<v Speaker 1>though in different ways. Not every coastal settlement will be

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<v Speaker 1>affected the same, And I want to get to some

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<v Speaker 1>of that variance in just a bit here. But as

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<v Speaker 1>a baseline, I thought we should look at how much

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<v Speaker 1>are sea levels expected to rise in the next century

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<v Speaker 1>or so. That depends on a number of variables, but

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<v Speaker 1>I was looking at the most recent IPCC report, which

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<v Speaker 1>had put together a series of estimates. First of all,

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<v Speaker 1>they look at the question of what is happening to

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<v Speaker 1>global mean sea level right now, what has already happened

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<v Speaker 1>in the traceable recent past, whatever happens in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing we know for certain is that the sea

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<v Speaker 1>level is already rising and has already risen, and the

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<v Speaker 1>rate at which it rises will very likely accelerate in

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<v Speaker 1>the future. Based on our best measurements averaged over different

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<v Speaker 1>time periods, we can see that sea levels have risen

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<v Speaker 1>over the past century, and basically the more recent the

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<v Speaker 1>chunk of time you look at is the faster they're rising.

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<v Speaker 1>So the IPCC report points out that sea levels rose

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<v Speaker 1>about one point four millimeters per year if you look

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<v Speaker 1>at the time period nineteen oh one to nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 1>If you shift more recently and look at nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 1>to twenty five fifteen, it's two point one millimeters per year.

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<v Speaker 1>If you just look at nineteen ninety three, to twenty fifteen,

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<v Speaker 1>it's three point two millimeters per year. If you just

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<v Speaker 1>look at two thousand and six to twenty fifteen, it's

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<v Speaker 1>three point six millimeters per year. So the later the

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<v Speaker 1>period of the last century you look at, the more

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<v Speaker 1>it is rising per year. Now you might reasonably wonder,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you actually measure sea level down to the millimeter?

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<v Speaker 1>Like the top of the water is always moving, So

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<v Speaker 1>that's a reasonable question. What methods do you have to

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<v Speaker 1>know that the average level of the sea is rising.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a couple of major metrics here cited, and

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't fully know how these worked beforehand, so I

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<v Speaker 1>thought this was interesting. One method used is tide gauges.

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<v Speaker 1>These systems have been used in some form to record

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<v Speaker 1>sea levels for hundreds of years, or at least going

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<v Speaker 1>back I think to the early eighteen hundreds, though now

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<v Speaker 1>they've changed form to incorporate different types of sensors and

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<v Speaker 1>computers other modern components, but they still have some things

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<v Speaker 1>in common. So the old method here was that they

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<v Speaker 1>would use a device called a stilling well, and this

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<v Speaker 1>was basically a pipe about a foot wide that would

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<v Speaker 1>be plunged down into the water from a place called

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<v Speaker 1>a tide station essentially a house built out on a dock,

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<v Speaker 1>and this pipe would still the water around a floating device.

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<v Speaker 1>The float would be suspended down into the well by

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<v Speaker 1>a wire, and then that wire would be attached at

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<v Speaker 1>the other end to a recording device, which might be

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<v Speaker 1>something like a pin that would mark the water level

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<v Speaker 1>automatically on a paper strip. So the float floats on

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<v Speaker 1>the top of the water. As the water rises, the

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<v Speaker 1>pin moves and marks that level on the paper strip.

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<v Speaker 1>As the water goes down, the pin moves again, and

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<v Speaker 1>then these marks were analyzed and averaged together to form

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<v Speaker 1>a picture of the tidal variance and the average sea

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<v Speaker 1>level over time. This method changed so that the data

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<v Speaker 1>could be fed directly into computers, and these tide stations

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<v Speaker 1>also they had measuring staffs as well. You've probably seen

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<v Speaker 1>things like this somewhere around the coast before, where it's

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<v Speaker 1>just like a stick poking out of the water. Is

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<v Speaker 1>basically a ruler, you know, it's got height markings on them,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the operators could visually observe the staff and

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<v Speaker 1>compare that to the mechanical readings from the float device. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>tide gauges still exist, and they still make readings, but

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<v Speaker 1>they've got new systems, new types of sensors today to

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<v Speaker 1>get their readings from. Modern tide gauges tend to use

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<v Speaker 1>acoustic sounding tubes instead of a float and distilling well.

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<v Speaker 1>So the acoustic sounding tube will admit, will emit a

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<v Speaker 1>sound wave from a fixed height and then wait for

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<v Speaker 1>it to bounce off of the water's surface and come back.

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<v Speaker 1>And the time to return of the signal allows you

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<v Speaker 1>to calculate the height of the water across the tidal variants.

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<v Speaker 1>So you can put in place these tide gauges in

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<v Speaker 1>coastal environments all around the world and average them out

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<v Speaker 1>to try to get some information about what the global

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<v Speaker 1>sea levels are doing all around the world. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at that information, it shows yes, indeed the

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<v Speaker 1>sea levels have been rising. They've been rising over the

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<v Speaker 1>last century along the lines of the measurements I mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>a minute ago. But if you're able, you'd also want

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<v Speaker 1>to compare that data to other sources of information to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure you're getting the most accurate possible average. So

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<v Speaker 1>there is another method that is used, and that is altimetry.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the use of satellite based tools called radar

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<v Speaker 1>altimeters to measure the height of the sea. Basically, you

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<v Speaker 1>can know the altitude of a satellite with a high

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<v Speaker 1>degree of precision. You can track that with instruments like

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<v Speaker 1>laser range rangefinders, like you bounce a laser off the satellite,

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<v Speaker 1>so you can tell pretty much exactly how high it is.

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<v Speaker 1>And then with that information in mind, you can use

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<v Speaker 1>a satellite to send out a microwave pulse toward the Earth.

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<v Speaker 1>That pulse bounces off of the surface of the ocean

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<v Speaker 1>and then ounces back to the satellite and hits a

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<v Speaker 1>return sensor, and then the satellite measures the time of

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<v Speaker 1>the round trip between the emitter and the surface of

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<v Speaker 1>the ocean to get a very precise measurement of the

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<v Speaker 1>distance between the satellite and the water, which, again in

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<v Speaker 1>combination with the precisely known altitude of the satellite, can

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<v Speaker 1>be used to measure the level of the sea. And

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<v Speaker 1>of course radar altimetry can be used to measure average

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<v Speaker 1>sea level changes over time and get global averages and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>But it can be also used. I thought this was

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<v Speaker 1>interesting to measure variations in the height of the water

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<v Speaker 1>around the world at the same time, so a kind

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<v Speaker 1>of crazy thing about the ocean is that it is

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<v Speaker 1>not at the same height everywhere on Earth all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>That seems counterintuitive because you think of water in a

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<v Speaker 1>container like a bowl or something eventually finding you know,

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<v Speaker 1>finding its own level. It kind of levels out. But

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<v Speaker 1>across the world's oceans, there are peaks and valleys that

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<v Speaker 1>arise in certain places at certain times, and so one

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<v Speaker 1>example we're all familiar with is the tide. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>the tide is caused mainly by gravity, by the gravitational

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<v Speaker 1>influence of the Moon, but also the Sun, but there

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<v Speaker 1>are other factors that can cause local and sometimes temporary

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<v Speaker 1>high and low altitudes of seawater as well. I was

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<v Speaker 1>reading a report from NASA Earth Observatory about this and

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<v Speaker 1>it mentioned friction caused by wind on the surface of

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<v Speaker 1>the water. So like wind sort of dragging the water

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<v Speaker 1>around and piling it up in certain places. I guess

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<v Speaker 1>that's a crude way of describing it, but that is

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<v Speaker 1>sort of what happens. There are also Coriolis effects and

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<v Speaker 1>ocean currents, and there are also effects of variations in

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<v Speaker 1>atmospheric pressure, so you know, the atmosphere pushing the surface

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<v Speaker 1>of the water down in regions where the pressure is

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<v Speaker 1>high and so forth, and we can measure these altitude

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<v Speaker 1>variations across the ocean with the help of satellite based

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<v Speaker 1>radar altimetry. As just one example of the variance in

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<v Speaker 1>the high of the oceans around the world. According to NASA,

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<v Speaker 1>the sea level in the Pacific Ocean is generally higher

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<v Speaker 1>than the Atlantic Ocean, roughly twenty centimeters or about eight

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<v Speaker 1>inches higher. How is that possible, Well, the volume of

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<v Speaker 1>seawater is not static. Changes in the temperature and salinity

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<v Speaker 1>of seawater affect its density, so warmer water generally is

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<v Speaker 1>less dense it takes up more space per unit of mass.

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<v Speaker 1>The Pacific is on average warmer, so its volume is greater,

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<v Speaker 1>and thus Pacific sea levels are higher and other factors

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<v Speaker 1>contribute like this as well. This kind of variation is

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<v Speaker 1>actually acknowledged in the IPCC report where they say quote

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<v Speaker 1>sea level rise is not globally uniform and varies regionally.

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<v Speaker 1>Thermal expansion, ocean dynamics, and land ice loss contributions will

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<v Speaker 1>generate regional departures of about plus or minus thirty percent

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<v Speaker 1>around the global means sea level rise, and those regional

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<v Speaker 1>variations in changes in sea level I want to come

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<v Speaker 1>back to that in a minute. Now, of course, we

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<v Speaker 1>all know the main cause of the current warming that

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<v Speaker 1>is driving sea level rise is of course what the

0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:20.440
<v Speaker 1>IPCC report calls anthropogenic forcing. This means results of human activity,

0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.600
<v Speaker 1>primarily the changing of the composition of the atmosphere causing

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.720
<v Speaker 1>it to trap more heat. This is the famous greenhouse effect.

0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:32.640
<v Speaker 1>Putting more things like carbon methane into the atmosphere increases

0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.600
<v Speaker 1>the heat trapping potency of the atmosphere. It traps more

0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 1>heat the earth worms. So we know sea levels have

0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.959
<v Speaker 1>been rising and they will continue to rise, but how

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 1>much and how fast they rise is highly variable from

0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 1>our current point of view. So there are some estimates

0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:06.479
<v Speaker 1>based on current data. According to the IPCC predictions relative

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.520
<v Speaker 1>to the mean sea level in the period from nineteen

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.160
<v Speaker 1>eighty six to two thousand and five, they predict that

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 1>the global mean sea level will rise probably somewhere between

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.920
<v Speaker 1>zero point four to three meters or about one point

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 1>four feet to zero point eight four meters, which is

0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.680
<v Speaker 1>about two point eight feet, by the year twenty one hundred,

0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and then due to a cascade of factors, sea levels

0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 1>will continue to rise for centuries after that, and will

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:35.600
<v Speaker 1>probably stay higher for thousands of years. Now. I wouldn't

0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 1>hang on those exact numbers too much because those are estimates.

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 1>They are also averages of estimates, and I've seen other

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 1>reports with different estimates, especially at the high end of

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 1>like how bad could it possibly get if we just

0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.480
<v Speaker 1>keep increasing more and more greenhouse gas emissions? But the

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.040
<v Speaker 1>important thing to note is that the high and low

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 1>end projections here are dependent on the variable of human activity.

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.040
<v Speaker 1>If we continue increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases in

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 1>the atmosphere, we're somewhat closer to the top end of

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 1>that range, and the low end is feasible if we

0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 1>drastically reduce greenhouse gas output and factor in some kind

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 1>of negative emissions as well, such as massive natural or

0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 1>artificial carbon sequestration. And natural carbon sequestration would be I think,

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, trapping carbon in things like plants and forests.

0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so as is I've heard a lot of experts

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:33.000
<v Speaker 3>say it's not that there isn't room for optimism in

0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 3>all of this, but the optimism does not come without action, right,

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 3>there are definite steps that need to be taken. We

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 3>can't just be like, ah, it might be, it might

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 3>be okay, maybe it's just gonna be the lower We'll

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 3>just we'll roll the dice and see, like, that's not

0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 3>how it's going to work out.

0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's exactly right. The lower end of the prediction

0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 1>range there is based on an assumption of action if

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 1>humanity does something to massively reduce the contribution to global

0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 1>warming through greenhouse gases. So in that case, yes, we

0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.360
<v Speaker 1>could limit it to the lower levels of sea level rise.

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 1>But to be clear, some amount of sea level rise

0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>at this point has already happened and is basically locked in.

0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 1>The question is how much worse will it get, and

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.560
<v Speaker 1>that outcome is clearly dependent to a large extent on

0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 1>what we do, But in most plausible scenarios we can

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 1>expect somewhere between something like one and three feet of

0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.280
<v Speaker 1>global sea level rise by the end of this century.

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Now I mentioned there are other estimates I've come across.

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Some of these are specifically focused on like certain countries

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.560
<v Speaker 1>or regions, or might be drawing on some emphasizing different

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 1>data sources or something. But another estimate I came across

0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 1>was a twenty twenty two joint report by NASA, the NOAA,

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.320
<v Speaker 1>and several other federal agencies of the US government called

0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Global and Regional Sea Level Rise Scenarios for the United States.

0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.360
<v Speaker 1>This was an update to a previous report from twenty seventeen,

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and this report quote concludes that sea level along US

0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.080
<v Speaker 1>coast lines will rise ten to twelve inches or twenty

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.880
<v Speaker 1>five to thirty centimeters on average above today's levels by

0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifty. So that's predicting, you know, roughly a foot

0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.480
<v Speaker 1>of increase by the middle of the century. Also on

0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.719
<v Speaker 1>the more dire end, this one was predicting much higher

0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.639
<v Speaker 1>levels of sea level rise at the you know, basically

0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.480
<v Speaker 1>at the letter rip scenario. It's just like do nothing

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.280
<v Speaker 1>scenario by the end of this century. If you want

0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.840
<v Speaker 1>to experiment with the findings of this report, it actually

0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 1>has an online mapping tool you can look up you

0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 1>and mess around with yourself, called the Interagency Sea Level

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.399
<v Speaker 1>Rise Scenario Tool. You can google that and mess with

0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.440
<v Speaker 1>it yourself if you want. Now, there are a couple

0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.200
<v Speaker 1>of major contributors to the actual physical causes of sea

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.760
<v Speaker 1>level rise due to a warming climate. One of them

0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:00.480
<v Speaker 1>is melting ice melting glaciers and ice sheets. Already talked

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 1>about the roll of melting ice in the sea level

0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.120
<v Speaker 1>increases at the end of the Pleistocene, which were responsible

0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 1>for inundating Doggerland and Boringia. But there's still a lot

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 1>of ice on Earth left to melt. Another important cause

0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.280
<v Speaker 1>of sea level rise is the thermal expansion of water.

0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.359
<v Speaker 1>Remember what I was talking about a minute ago with

0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 1>the difference in the height of the Pacific Ocean versus

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.200
<v Speaker 1>the Atlantic Ocean. One factor there being that the Pacific

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Ocean waters on average are warmer. This stacks on top

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.840
<v Speaker 1>of the melting, but as water heats up, it becomes

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.280
<v Speaker 1>less dense and takes up more space. Warmer water takes

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.640
<v Speaker 1>up more space pre unit of mass, so warmer oceans

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 1>will be taller. And the thermal expansion of water plays

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:47.000
<v Speaker 1>a role already in a number of different phenomena that

0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.760
<v Speaker 1>happened within the ocean, for example in the in the

0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.440
<v Speaker 1>creation of ocean currents and in stratification of water levels

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.439
<v Speaker 1>within the ocean. Like warmer water floats on top of

0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:01.240
<v Speaker 1>colder water, but anyway, as the earth worms, the water

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.720
<v Speaker 1>thermally expands also, so that contributes to the sea level

0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 1>being higher. Now, what does this actually mean for the

0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.920
<v Speaker 1>everyday life of people living in low lying coastal areas

0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.080
<v Speaker 1>of planet Earth. I think one thing people sometimes like,

0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.040
<v Speaker 1>if you haven't read much about this, you might have

0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:22.200
<v Speaker 1>trouble imagining the form exactly this will take. Like you're

0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.480
<v Speaker 1>just imagining the sea rising in a kind of static way,

0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Like you know, it's either dry land or it's underwater,

0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>what's in between. There actually is something in between, which

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:37.240
<v Speaker 1>is frequent flooding. The way many people will probably experience

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:41.080
<v Speaker 1>sea level rise at first is an increase in the

0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:45.480
<v Speaker 1>frequency and destructiveness of extreme weather events that are dependent

0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.159
<v Speaker 1>on sea level for the amount of damage they cause.

0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 1>So a person who lives in a low lying coastal

0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 1>city will start dealing with storm related floods on a

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 1>more and more frequent basis. What used to be a

0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.639
<v Speaker 1>once in a century flood will become a regular occurrence,

0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>until at some point the flooding becomes so common that

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.879
<v Speaker 1>people may start to simply consider a place uninhabitable. And

0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 1>this happens before that place is more or less permanently underwater,

0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.159
<v Speaker 1>But that eventually happens too. Of course, this kind of

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:20.119
<v Speaker 1>flooding and water encroachment, it comes with all kinds of

0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 1>consequences of massive economic damage, destruction of property, destruction, of livelihoods,

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.520
<v Speaker 1>displacement of people, and all of the downstream effects of that.

0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.680
<v Speaker 1>But another factor people might not think about are the

0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:37.520
<v Speaker 1>effects of the ingress of salt water into places with

0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:41.359
<v Speaker 1>freshwater resources, like into river deltas and so forth. Of course,

0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 1>this kind have negative effects on habitats and wildlife, but

0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.480
<v Speaker 1>also on agriculture and groundwater and all that. You don't

0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.080
<v Speaker 1>want to salt your earth. But to come back to

0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:54.639
<v Speaker 1>an issue I raised earlier, an interesting factor contributing to

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.480
<v Speaker 1>the coming inundation of coastal areas and especially coastal cities

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.800
<v Speaker 1>is that not only are sea levels definitely rising around

0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 1>the globe and differently in different places, in some places

0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.879
<v Speaker 1>the ground is literally sinking. The lands are not just

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.080
<v Speaker 1>metaphorically sunken because the water covers them, they are quite

0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 1>literally directly sunken. The land is going down. So you

0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 1>might have a coastal city that is experiencing more and

0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.240
<v Speaker 1>more frequent flooding during storm surges as the sea grows taller,

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.679
<v Speaker 1>but also the ground level of the city is several

0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.680
<v Speaker 1>millimeters lower every year, which makes the relative sea level

0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:36.239
<v Speaker 1>rise even worse. Now, how is that possible? Well, there

0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.800
<v Speaker 1>are multiple causes but I was reading about this in

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.919
<v Speaker 1>a major One of the causes seems to be the

0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:48.119
<v Speaker 1>extraction of ground water from underlying aquifers, especially you're extracting

0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:51.679
<v Speaker 1>it faster than those aquifers are replenished, and as the

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:56.879
<v Speaker 1>water is extracted, it creates these voids underground. These voids grow,

0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.280
<v Speaker 1>the soil gets compressed, especially if you're putting a bunch

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.800
<v Speaker 1>of heavy stuff on the soil, such as a city

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 1>like building on top of it, and then that compressing

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.400
<v Speaker 1>of the ground and the compressing into the voids below

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:14.040
<v Speaker 1>essentially means the city literally starts to sink. And this

0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:16.040
<v Speaker 1>is happening to cities all around the world. I was

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>reading a really interesting article that addresses this issue. It's

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.520
<v Speaker 1>in Wired by Matt Simon called sea level rise will

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:29.560
<v Speaker 1>be catastrophic and unequal. So this article is emphasizing again

0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:32.880
<v Speaker 1>that the global means sea level rise estimates are averages.

0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 1>In specific places, the problem could be not as bad

0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:42.240
<v Speaker 1>or much much worse. Simon writes, quote, Galveston, Texas, where

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.399
<v Speaker 1>the land is slumping, could see almost two feet of

0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:49.440
<v Speaker 1>rise by the year twenty fifty. Meanwhile, Anchorage, Alaska could

0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.719
<v Speaker 1>see eight inches of sea level drop thanks to the

0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:56.600
<v Speaker 1>fact that its land is actually rising following the departure

0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:01.920
<v Speaker 1>of long gone glaciers. So why is Galveston, Texas sinking

0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.800
<v Speaker 1>relative to the sea level? He says, mainly there are

0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.320
<v Speaker 1>two causes here, and they're both related to the extraction

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.080
<v Speaker 1>of liquids from underground reservoirs. One is the extraction of

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 1>water and the other is oil extraction of oil. And

0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 1>this is true in many places as a result of

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:23.360
<v Speaker 1>the combination of global sea level rise and land subsidence.

0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Some of the areas of the world that are going

0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 1>to be the hardest hit by the greatest relative local

0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.679
<v Speaker 1>sea level rise are on the Gulf Coast of the

0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 1>United States, the Gulf Coast, because they're suffering both of

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:36.680
<v Speaker 1>these at the same time. The land is going down

0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 1>and the sea is coming up. Simon in this article

0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:42.600
<v Speaker 1>quotes a guy named Bob Stokes who is president of

0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:47.439
<v Speaker 1>the conservation nonprofit called the Galveston Bay Foundation, and he

0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.480
<v Speaker 1>tells a story that I thought was wild. So this

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 1>is Stokes talking in the article. He says, quote, the

0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 1>numbers I'm going to give you are are going to

0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:57.719
<v Speaker 1>be hard to believe. But there is an area in

0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:01.439
<v Speaker 1>Baytown where there is a big ex On mobile industrial

0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.439
<v Speaker 1>plant that sank about eleven feet in a period of

0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 1>fifty or sixty years because they were unsustainably pulling water

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.200
<v Speaker 1>out of there. There was a nice and upper middle

0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:15.000
<v Speaker 1>class subdivision where all the Exxon executives lived that ultimately

0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:17.879
<v Speaker 1>had to be condemned because water was lapping up the

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.480
<v Speaker 1>foundations of these houses. So there water and oil being

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.720
<v Speaker 1>extracted from below. The land is sinking and the sea

0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 1>is coming up. Meanwhile, with the example of Anchorage, Alaska,

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:32.560
<v Speaker 1>this is typical of many areas on the southern coast

0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:36.360
<v Speaker 1>of Alaska where the ground is rising due to glacial retreat.

0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:41.240
<v Speaker 1>This is called glacial isostatic adjustment, and Simon uses the

0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:44.200
<v Speaker 1>analogy of when you get up off of a memory

0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.640
<v Speaker 1>foam mattress and that mattress gradually fills in the dent

0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.359
<v Speaker 1>he left with your body. That's kind of what the

0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 1>land does when a glacier retreats. When a glacier melts away,

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:57.600
<v Speaker 1>it sort of bounces back up. So areas where the

0:24:57.680 --> 0:25:00.680
<v Speaker 1>land is rising relative to the sea are going to

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:04.480
<v Speaker 1>be on average hit less by global mean sea level increases,

0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:07.960
<v Speaker 1>and areas where the land is literally sinking such as

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.600
<v Speaker 1>in many cities on the Gulf Coast they're going to

0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:13.240
<v Speaker 1>be hit harder than average, and there are a lot

0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 1>of sinking cities, not just on the Gulf Coast, but

0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:19.880
<v Speaker 1>according to the map included all along the US East coast. Now,

0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.639
<v Speaker 1>this article goes on to talk about other factors contributing

0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:25.640
<v Speaker 1>to the regional variation in the effects of sea level

0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:29.840
<v Speaker 1>rise as well, such as local characteristics of water. You know,

0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:33.359
<v Speaker 1>warmer waters, as we said earlier, usually mean higher sea levels,

0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:37.760
<v Speaker 1>but also more storm surge and things like that. But

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 1>important thing to remember at the end of this projections

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:44.320
<v Speaker 1>are variable. At this point, some amount of sea level

0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.680
<v Speaker 1>rise is locked in, but humanity has power over how

0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:51.040
<v Speaker 1>much worse the problem gets, and the recipe for minimizing

0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:55.080
<v Speaker 1>damage to world civilization is reducing greenhouse gases in the

0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:58.639
<v Speaker 1>atmosphere as much as possible, stop adding them, and to

0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the extent possible, take them out.

0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, basically, the natural environment is maluable, as we've discussed,

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:10.400
<v Speaker 3>and humanity has tremendous power and tremendous will. We see

0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 3>that in the in the in the degree to which

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:17.760
<v Speaker 3>we have and are changing things. But that power and

0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:21.479
<v Speaker 3>will can also be applied to changing the ways that

0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:25.200
<v Speaker 3>we're interacting with the natural world for the better. But again,

0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:29.160
<v Speaker 3>it does require action. It doesn't require just setting back

0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:31.639
<v Speaker 3>and hoping that it will be better or pretending that

0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:32.920
<v Speaker 3>the problem does not exist.

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:42.440
<v Speaker 1>Correct.

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:46.960
<v Speaker 3>All right, So this is the fourth part of our series,

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:50.320
<v Speaker 3>and we could, we could honestly easily keep going, but

0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:52.040
<v Speaker 3>we can't because I've got some Christma stuff to do

0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:55.720
<v Speaker 3>next week. So in this last section, I'd like to

0:26:55.760 --> 0:27:00.879
<v Speaker 3>refer to the ancient Hindu Hindu epic the Ramayana, which

0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:02.959
<v Speaker 3>I do want to add a note. I've brought this up

0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 3>in the show, but I've brought the topic up on

0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 3>the show before, but I don't know that I've been

0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:08.880
<v Speaker 3>using the proper pronunciation. I may have said it wrong

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:12.919
<v Speaker 3>in the past, in which case my apologies. But the Ramayana,

0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:17.840
<v Speaker 3>which chronicles the life of King Rama or Ram, an

0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:21.359
<v Speaker 3>incarnation of Vishnu. If you're not familiar with the story,

0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.040
<v Speaker 3>there are lots of ins and outs. It's essentially the

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.040
<v Speaker 3>story of of this mythical king, this divine king's life.

0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:31.240
<v Speaker 3>But there's perhaps the most famous plot line in there

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:33.800
<v Speaker 3>is that his wife Sita is kidnapped by the ten

0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:36.840
<v Speaker 3>headed demon king of Ravana, who takes her away to

0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:41.480
<v Speaker 3>the land of Lanka, provoking a great war to reclaim her. So,

0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:44.679
<v Speaker 3>of course Rama has to assemble the troops. He has

0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:48.880
<v Speaker 3>to gather his forces, and this includes various figures and factions,

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:54.399
<v Speaker 3>including a people known as the Vanara. In short, the

0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:57.639
<v Speaker 3>Vanara are the monkeys. If you've seen illustrations of the

0:27:57.720 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 3>Ramayana before, you know some of the related traditions. You

0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:06.240
<v Speaker 3>you've probably seen images of these various monkey troops aiding Rama.

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:09.239
<v Speaker 3>And of course you may be familiar with Haniman, the

0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:12.080
<v Speaker 3>most famous of the Vannara. This is, you know, the

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.640
<v Speaker 3>tireless friend to Rama and his you know, his key

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 3>champion and a very powerful entity that is I believe

0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:22.800
<v Speaker 3>the son of a wind deity in some traditions. So

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.920
<v Speaker 3>but I was looking into the Venera a bit more.

0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:30.640
<v Speaker 3>And according to the author Nanditha Krishna in the book

0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:33.399
<v Speaker 3>Sacred Animals of India, which I've referred to in the past,

0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 3>the Sanskrit word for primate is actually copy but the

0:28:37.640 --> 0:28:43.040
<v Speaker 3>word used in the Ramayana Vanara essentially translates to people

0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 3>of the forest, with Vana being forest and Nara being men.

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:52.600
<v Speaker 3>Interesting yeah, the author writes that this term probably never

0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:59.200
<v Speaker 3>actually meant monkey. In fact, in Jainism, the Vanara are

0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:03.000
<v Speaker 3>described as a forest dwelling tribe of people, and elsewhere

0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 3>in the Hindu epic the Mahabarata, they are also discussed

0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:10.640
<v Speaker 3>as such, contributing to this kind of mythic transformation from perhaps,

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, some sort of forest dwelling people, too intelligent

0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:18.840
<v Speaker 3>humanoid primates. It might have been that these people, to

0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:22.440
<v Speaker 3>whatever extent you know, they were real. They may have

0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 3>been worshippers of a primate themed deity, or they might

0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:28.920
<v Speaker 3>have used a some sort of primate themed totem of

0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:31.320
<v Speaker 3>some sort, or some sort of totem system. But the

0:29:31.320 --> 0:29:33.760
<v Speaker 3>author's stresses that it could also be neither of these.

0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:37.880
<v Speaker 3>We just don't know, And so the Bnara include several

0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:42.280
<v Speaker 3>important individuals that pop up in the epic. There's Mighty Hanaman,

0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:45.600
<v Speaker 3>as we already noted, most famous of them all. There's

0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 3>King Sogriva, and there's also a pair of twins known

0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:52.920
<v Speaker 3>as Nala and Nila. And the twins ate is especially

0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.560
<v Speaker 3>important because Rama must deliver his army across the waters

0:29:56.600 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 3>to the island fortress of Lanka in order to reclaim

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:04.239
<v Speaker 3>his bride, and so, as the epic describes, they have

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 3>to create a bridge. And this is where Nala and

0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:11.840
<v Speaker 3>sometimes Nila depending on the version, becomes essential. This is

0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:15.640
<v Speaker 3>a quote from the Ramayana in translation of course, quote

0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 3>a bridge was thrown by Nala or the narrow sea

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.040
<v Speaker 3>from shore to shore. They crossed to Lanka's golden town,

0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:25.080
<v Speaker 3>where Rama's hands smote Ravana down.

0:30:25.640 --> 0:30:29.360
<v Speaker 1>A bridge was thrown. Wow, how do you throw a bridge?

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Well, this is where this sort of things get get interesting,

0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:37.400
<v Speaker 3>dissecting all of this because the accounts apparently vary. In

0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:41.840
<v Speaker 3>some cases, the resulting bridge that gets thrown or constructed

0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:46.880
<v Speaker 3>is in fact a great bridge that it's you know,

0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:50.080
<v Speaker 3>something built. It's constructed. It's perhaps made. It would at

0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:54.240
<v Speaker 3>the base and then become stone further up. You know,

0:30:54.320 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 3>it is like a huge megawork that connects one land

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:01.400
<v Speaker 3>to the next so that the army can march over it.

0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:06.320
<v Speaker 3>Other times it's described more as I mean, it's still

0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:09.240
<v Speaker 3>something that's constructed, but with a lot more magic involved.

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:13.440
<v Speaker 3>Like there are stories about the Varna using floating stones

0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 3>to build this bridge, throwing the stones in the water,

0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:19.320
<v Speaker 3>and in some cases these are stones that kind of

0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:21.440
<v Speaker 3>float on their own already. But then there are other

0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:24.320
<v Speaker 3>accounts where like there's a certain amount of monkey trickiness

0:31:24.400 --> 0:31:27.200
<v Speaker 3>that's involved, like they do something like I think the

0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 3>account that I was reading, one of the accounts is

0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:31.520
<v Speaker 3>that they were like throwing holy items into the water,

0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:34.280
<v Speaker 3>and the gods said, okay, that's that nothing. The monkey's

0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 3>throwing the water can sink. Everything has to float. We

0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:38.320
<v Speaker 3>can't have the stuff sinking to the bottom. And then

0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:40.960
<v Speaker 3>they starts throwing the stones in and they kind of

0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:43.240
<v Speaker 3>find a loophole to build the bridge.

0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Brilliant leve a loophole.

0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:49.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but at any rate, there's no like one way.

0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Apparently there are different accounts, different stories, but we end

0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 3>up with the idea of a bridge one way or another.

0:31:56.960 --> 0:31:59.840
<v Speaker 3>This is Rama's bridge or the Rama sit to now,

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 3>especially since this has already come up in this series

0:32:02.720 --> 0:32:04.720
<v Speaker 3>we're doing, I know some of you are thinking about

0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:09.520
<v Speaker 3>those floating pumice rocks and wondering if observations of this

0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 3>phenomenon might have influenced the myth making or if this

0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:16.680
<v Speaker 3>has anything to do with it, And apparently this has

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:20.560
<v Speaker 3>been discussed those the number of criticisms emerge concerning like

0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:24.960
<v Speaker 3>the lack of such stones in areas that are discussed

0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:28.360
<v Speaker 3>as possibly linking up with the area where this great

0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:30.920
<v Speaker 3>bridge could have been or its supposed to have been.

0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 3>More on that in a second, And then of course

0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:35.880
<v Speaker 3>you get into some other situations too, Like it's one

0:32:35.920 --> 0:32:37.680
<v Speaker 3>thing for you could I guess you could say, like

0:32:37.720 --> 0:32:41.480
<v Speaker 3>the idea could be passed on and then could spill

0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:44.000
<v Speaker 3>over into some myth making. But could you actually build

0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:47.720
<v Speaker 3>a bridge using pummice stones? I think there's significantly less

0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 3>evidence for that.

0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, would they support your weight? I mean I would

0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:52.640
<v Speaker 1>think it'd be more like the you know, the ball pit,

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:54.440
<v Speaker 1>you kind of fall in between them.

0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. And I think they're also just more convincing ideas

0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:02.360
<v Speaker 3>regarding all of this. So, of course, the big questions

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:05.040
<v Speaker 3>here would be, Okay, first of all, did something even

0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:10.080
<v Speaker 3>remotely like the events of this Hindu epic ever take place?

0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:13.440
<v Speaker 3>And if so, where did it take place? Where would

0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:16.280
<v Speaker 3>this bridge have been, and what land masses would it

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:19.840
<v Speaker 3>have been linking So versions of question one, to be clear,

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 3>turn up in all religions, and they're often asked with

0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:27.160
<v Speaker 3>different objectives in mind. Very broadly speaking, some researchers seek

0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:32.440
<v Speaker 3>to prove religious accounts correct by finding corroborating evidence in archaeology, history,

0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:36.080
<v Speaker 3>and geology, while others seek to employ religious text to

0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:40.320
<v Speaker 3>it to better understand human and geologic history. Again very

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:42.480
<v Speaker 3>broadly speaking, because you can wind up with a little

0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:44.720
<v Speaker 3>bit of column A and column b and vice versa,

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:49.480
<v Speaker 3>and human motivations are ultimately complicated, But it also means

0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 3>that these sorts of discussions can generate strong emotions as well.

0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:55.680
<v Speaker 3>So I would suppose we should stress something that we

0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:59.120
<v Speaker 3>often touch on, that mythology is not fiction, even if

0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 3>it is not objective of reality. Not to say that

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:06.040
<v Speaker 3>it is necessarily completely removed from objective reality, but it's

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:09.160
<v Speaker 3>kind of this third category between the two that can

0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:12.240
<v Speaker 3>still empower us on multiple levels and give life meaning

0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:17.759
<v Speaker 3>without being like one to one with the objective world.

0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, I've often spoken this opinion with reference to

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:24.279
<v Speaker 1>things like the creation story told in Genesis or something

0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 1>that are you sure that the people who first wrote

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:31.080
<v Speaker 1>this story even necessarily meant it to be taken as

0:34:31.080 --> 0:34:32.720
<v Speaker 1>a literal, factual account.

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And you know, it kind of comes back to

0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:36.600
<v Speaker 3>some of the things we're discussing just concerning some of

0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:39.960
<v Speaker 3>these ideas of different lost islands and so forth. It's

0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:42.400
<v Speaker 3>like we always want to find that one reason, that

0:34:42.440 --> 0:34:45.920
<v Speaker 3>one explanation, and you know, oftentimes, especially when we're dealing

0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:49.920
<v Speaker 3>with things like this, that are concepts that exist not

0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:53.200
<v Speaker 3>only in one human imagination, but in multiple human imaginations

0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:57.440
<v Speaker 3>spread out across different communities and cultures over long stretches

0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:00.000
<v Speaker 3>of time. There's a lot of room for various influence

0:35:00.239 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 3>is to shape the final form of the thing. So, anyway,

0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.719
<v Speaker 3>coming to this idea of a bridge, where would you

0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.880
<v Speaker 3>possibly look for evidence of this? So a lot of

0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.520
<v Speaker 3>it comes down to the possible location of the island

0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:18.440
<v Speaker 3>of Lanka. And there's a great deal of scholarship on

0:35:18.480 --> 0:35:21.600
<v Speaker 3>this question alone, with the prime candidate seeming to be

0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:25.680
<v Speaker 3>the island of Sri Lanka. The Maldives, Sumatra, and even

0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:30.560
<v Speaker 3>Madagascar have also been discussed, and of course, conspiracy minded

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:35.719
<v Speaker 3>folks are not above suggesting Atlantis. It was Atlantis, but

0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:39.759
<v Speaker 3>it was Yeah, it was not Atlantis. So for our

0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:42.480
<v Speaker 3>purposes here, we're going to focus mostly on Sri Lanka

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:46.480
<v Speaker 3>as that's where there's some really interesting evidence to discuss,

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:48.680
<v Speaker 3>and that seems where to be where a lot of

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:52.320
<v Speaker 3>the energy seems to be going. Sri Lanka is easily

0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:56.399
<v Speaker 3>spotted on any map, separated from the Indian Peninsula by

0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:00.000
<v Speaker 3>the Gulf of Manar and the palk Straight. It is

0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:03.680
<v Speaker 3>been inhabited by humans since prehistoric times, and so it's

0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:06.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's been presented, and there's additional evidence to

0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:08.839
<v Speaker 3>support this idea as well that we don't have time

0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:10.400
<v Speaker 3>to get into. But a lot of people make the

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:15.920
<v Speaker 3>case that Sri Lanka was Lanka. And so, yeah, how

0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:19.600
<v Speaker 3>would you get an army, an ancient army, supernatural otherwise

0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:22.040
<v Speaker 3>from point A to point B. Well, this is of

0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:24.319
<v Speaker 3>course where the bridge comes in. And of course, in

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:26.840
<v Speaker 3>the context of a mythic story, you know, the bridge

0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:30.000
<v Speaker 3>doesn't have to be anything that corresponds with actual geology

0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:35.280
<v Speaker 3>or time specific technology. I mean, people can imagine bridges

0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.920
<v Speaker 3>spanning impossible distances, that sort of thing. I think all

0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:41.480
<v Speaker 3>that goes without saying. And there's plenty of things that

0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:45.560
<v Speaker 3>happen in the Hindu epics that are inherently supernatural, but

0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:48.480
<v Speaker 3>attempts to nail down a possible actual bridge to Sri

0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:53.319
<v Speaker 3>Lanka would constitute either a manufactured bridge and or a

0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:57.799
<v Speaker 3>naturally occurring bridge. It's the idea of at least some

0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:00.759
<v Speaker 3>level of naturally occurring bridge. This is where it gets

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:04.880
<v Speaker 3>really interesting, because there is a chain of limestone shoals

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:08.760
<v Speaker 3>between Minar Island off the northwest coast of Sri Lanka

0:37:09.239 --> 0:37:15.080
<v Speaker 3>and Ramaswaram Island off the southeast coast of India, interconnected

0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:18.080
<v Speaker 3>with sandbanks. It all forms a thirty mile or forty

0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:22.000
<v Speaker 3>eight kilometer long quote unquote bridge and it is shallow

0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:24.640
<v Speaker 3>enough to pose a navigational hazard to ships.

0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, So it's almost like, if you know, if

0:37:27.480 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 1>the water levels were a little bit lower or something

0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:32.759
<v Speaker 1>were piled up here, you can imagine something like a

0:37:32.800 --> 0:37:33.600
<v Speaker 1>bridge emerging.

0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, And so this and this is something that

0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:42.879
<v Speaker 3>has captivated the human imagination for a while and cause

0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:46.480
<v Speaker 3>people to, you know, logically, wonder could this be what

0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:50.440
<v Speaker 3>the epics are talking about? So this is also commonly

0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:54.360
<v Speaker 3>known as Adams Bridge. The name linked to an Islamic

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:56.680
<v Speaker 3>tradition and I think sometimes a Christian tradition as well

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.759
<v Speaker 3>that holds that Adam's Peak on Sri Lanka is where

0:38:01.600 --> 0:38:06.279
<v Speaker 3>the first human in Abrahamic traditions fell to earth, and

0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:12.240
<v Speaker 3>the mountain in question here is also sacred in Hinduism. Anyway,

0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:14.800
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of evidence to suggest that these shoals

0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:20.600
<v Speaker 3>and sandbars constitute a former land bridge, though estimated dates vary.

0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:25.040
<v Speaker 3>Cartographical records suggests that it may have been whole and

0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:29.680
<v Speaker 3>even traversible until the year fourteen eighty, and the beginning

0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:31.759
<v Speaker 3>in fourteen eighty you might have had a series of

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:37.520
<v Speaker 3>storms that ended up washing sections of it away, storm

0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:41.160
<v Speaker 3>breaches that end up making taking away this portion of it,

0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:43.200
<v Speaker 3>then another portion, until you're left with something that is

0:38:43.239 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 3>no longer traversible. Ah.

0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:48.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, so that is much more recent than any of

0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 1>the than the land bridges we've been talking about in

0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:52.959
<v Speaker 1>the other episodes of like the or the so called

0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:57.160
<v Speaker 1>land bridges, the former areas of dogger Land and Beringia,

0:38:57.280 --> 0:39:00.480
<v Speaker 1>which are that are now underwater and have been for

0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:02.800
<v Speaker 1>many thousands of years. This is just a question of

0:39:02.840 --> 0:39:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a few centuries comparatively very recent, if true.

0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, though of course there are all sorts of

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:11.000
<v Speaker 3>questions that arise in this, like is it too recent,

0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:13.520
<v Speaker 3>is it something that would be something that might have

0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:19.160
<v Speaker 3>emerged and then resemble something from pre existing mythology, or

0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:23.239
<v Speaker 3>as indeed, as many people believe, is it evidence of

0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:28.200
<v Speaker 3>something that is described in the Hindu epics, So it's

0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:32.480
<v Speaker 3>fascinating to think about those things, and also thinking about

0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:36.520
<v Speaker 3>like reports of it being traversible from centuries past, like

0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:38.480
<v Speaker 3>to what extent can we trust those We've already talked

0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:42.440
<v Speaker 3>about whole islands that have been cataloged due to various

0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:47.200
<v Speaker 3>errors or sort of deciding to err on the side

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:50.839
<v Speaker 3>of caution when identifying things that could be a navigational

0:39:50.840 --> 0:39:54.640
<v Speaker 3>hazard to ships and so forth. But at any right,

0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:57.840
<v Speaker 3>there is evidence of something here, and there are various

0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:01.880
<v Speaker 3>theories about its natural formation. They ranged from tectonic forces

0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:05.719
<v Speaker 3>to coral sand trapping, water, current movements of sand, and

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.239
<v Speaker 3>so forth. So there is this idea that it could

0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:11.640
<v Speaker 3>have been certainly a naturally occurring opportunity that could have

0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:15.399
<v Speaker 3>been augmented then by human beings to some degree, which

0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:17.960
<v Speaker 3>I don't think is all that outrageous, at least if

0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:20.960
<v Speaker 3>you consider like small scale efforts to shore up or

0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:25.279
<v Speaker 3>repair individual segments in a chain like this, and then

0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:27.400
<v Speaker 3>on top of that, I mean, ancient peoples were certainly

0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:31.360
<v Speaker 3>capable of larger scale engineering projects as well, though based

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:33.279
<v Speaker 3>on the sources I was looking at, I don't think

0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:36.960
<v Speaker 3>there's any strong scientific evidence for the idea that it

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:41.480
<v Speaker 3>was largely constructed or that it was constructed entirely. But

0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:46.280
<v Speaker 3>again this is an area of controversy. So setting aside

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:49.400
<v Speaker 3>how it came to be, we can be reasonably sure

0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:53.200
<v Speaker 3>that remnants that the remnants we see here do constitute

0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:56.200
<v Speaker 3>a one time land bridge that in its current form

0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:59.640
<v Speaker 3>is no longer traversible, likely due to changes in sea

0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:03.120
<v Speaker 3>level and storm activity some combination of the two. And

0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 3>there have been proposals to dredge more of it out

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:12.399
<v Speaker 3>in order to improve navigation by boat. But this is controversial,

0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:16.920
<v Speaker 3>both due to environmental reasons but also to religious objections.

0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:21.480
<v Speaker 3>And you also see proposals to rebuild the bridge quote unquote,

0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 3>and this would be a project that would have tremendous

0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:27.080
<v Speaker 3>religious significance as well as of course just being like

0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:30.960
<v Speaker 3>a major avenue of transportation between nations. By the way,

0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:32.600
<v Speaker 3>we won't really have we don't have time to go

0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:34.480
<v Speaker 3>into this one. But I also wanted to acknowledge that

0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:39.319
<v Speaker 3>there is a mythical continent named Kumari condom linked in

0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:43.960
<v Speaker 3>some traditions to ideas like Limuria, that it have been

0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:47.520
<v Speaker 3>that would have been situated in the Indian Ocean. It

0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:51.239
<v Speaker 3>would have allegedly hosted an ancient Tamil civilization, and I

0:41:51.239 --> 0:41:54.000
<v Speaker 3>think it's generally described as a Tamilized take on the

0:41:54.040 --> 0:41:59.040
<v Speaker 3>concept of Limuria, So, you know, a fairly recent idea

0:41:59.520 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 3>in the grand scheme of things, But then in the

0:42:01.520 --> 0:42:04.759
<v Speaker 3>twentieth century the idea ends up being taken up by

0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:09.560
<v Speaker 3>Tamil revivalist so it has remained since that point a

0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 3>culturally charged idea as well, which kind of takes us

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:14.520
<v Speaker 3>back to a lot of what we were talking about

0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:19.120
<v Speaker 3>just in general, about the idea of sunken lands, whether

0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:25.399
<v Speaker 3>real or mythological, even fictional, and how the classifications may

0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:29.279
<v Speaker 3>shift over time, and how they can become important, they

0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:32.000
<v Speaker 3>can become vitally important, they can be things that are

0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:33.880
<v Speaker 3>sought after not only as a way to sort of

0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:37.880
<v Speaker 3>understand mysteries about the natural world, such as how similar

0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:40.880
<v Speaker 3>species can be found on two sides of a vast ocean,

0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:45.319
<v Speaker 3>but also in trying to make connections that aid in

0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:48.200
<v Speaker 3>the conceptualization of one's worldview that sort of thing.

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think maybe that spells the end of our

0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:54.400
<v Speaker 1>exploration of sunken lands, but this has been a really

0:42:54.400 --> 0:42:55.880
<v Speaker 1>interesting journey to go on with you.

0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:57.799
<v Speaker 3>Rob, Yeah, this has been This has been a lot

0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:00.480
<v Speaker 3>of fun. I learned a lot, and I would love

0:43:00.520 --> 0:43:02.279
<v Speaker 3>to learn some more from listeners out there. If you

0:43:02.320 --> 0:43:06.560
<v Speaker 3>have some additional examples of anything we've discussed any of

0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:09.040
<v Speaker 3>the categories we've discussed in these episodes, If you have

0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:12.439
<v Speaker 3>some first hand knowledge or observations you'd like to share

0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:15.279
<v Speaker 3>about the various places we've discussed, all of that is

0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:16.960
<v Speaker 3>fair game and we would love to hear from you.

0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow your Mind is

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:23.319
<v Speaker 3>primarily a science podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:26.320
<v Speaker 3>On Mondays we do listener mail. On Wednesdays there tends

0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:28.879
<v Speaker 3>to be a short form artifact or monster fact episode,

0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:31.799
<v Speaker 3>and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:34.879
<v Speaker 3>just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema.

0:43:35.000 --> 0:43:36.839
<v Speaker 3>I should point out I do not think we've done

0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:39.560
<v Speaker 3>an Atlantis movie on Weird House. I know we've had

0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:42.080
<v Speaker 3>some flooding occur in some of the shows we've watched,

0:43:42.120 --> 0:43:45.120
<v Speaker 3>but I don't recall Atlantis popping up. I could be wrong.

0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:48.359
<v Speaker 3>There's a submerged city or two. I think a few

0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:49.320
<v Speaker 3>submerged lands.

0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:52.200
<v Speaker 1>I watched a movie a few years back. That's about

0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:55.480
<v Speaker 1>just like there's like a hurricane and a flood, and

0:43:55.480 --> 0:43:58.160
<v Speaker 1>it's just about a bunch of gators getting in somebody's house.

0:43:58.760 --> 0:43:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I forget what it's called.

0:44:00.360 --> 0:44:02.960
<v Speaker 3>It was pretty funny, like they're coming up the stairs,

0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:03.720
<v Speaker 3>that sort of thing.

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Swimming up the stairs, you know.

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh nice.

0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to look it up. It's not Gator from

0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:11.640
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy six, so that has Burt Reynolds in it.

0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Now I kind of kind of need to see it.

0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:16.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh it might. It might not be about alligators. It

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:18.480
<v Speaker 1>might be about a guy called Gator.

0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:22.839
<v Speaker 3>All right, Well, this is this is also fair game

0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:24.880
<v Speaker 3>as well for anyone who wants to write in. If

0:44:24.920 --> 0:44:29.560
<v Speaker 3>you have suggestions for Atlantis based movies, sunken world movies

0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:32.000
<v Speaker 3>that we can discuss in Weird House Cinema, well we'd

0:44:32.040 --> 0:44:33.839
<v Speaker 3>love to get those as well. Oh.

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:36.880
<v Speaker 1>I found what it was. It's called crawl. It starts

0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:38.799
<v Speaker 1>in a crawl space and then the house is full

0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:40.120
<v Speaker 1>of gators as it floods.

0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:42.720
<v Speaker 3>That's what it is, all right, that sounds great.

0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:47.920
<v Speaker 1>It's great, Okay, anyway, huge thanks as always to our

0:44:47.960 --> 0:44:51.239
<v Speaker 1>excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If you would like to

0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:53.560
<v Speaker 1>get in touch with us with feedback on this episode

0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:55.800
<v Speaker 1>or any other, to suggest a topic for the future,

0:44:56.000 --> 0:44:58.080
<v Speaker 1>or just to say hello, you can email us at

0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:07.960
<v Speaker 1>contact that Stuff to Blow Your Mind dot com.

0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:45:11.120 --> 0:45:13.879
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0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:31.040
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