1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: name is Joe McCormick. Today we're going to finish out 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: the Vault series that we've been running this week. This 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: is part four of our series called The Sunken Lands. 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: This originally published on December seventh, twenty twenty three. Hope 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: you enjoy. 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio. 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 3: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 3: name is Robert Lamb. 10 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: And I am Joe McCormick. And we are back with 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: the fourth and final part in our series called the 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: Sunken Lands, about places on Earth that relatively recently used 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: to be dry land but are now covered by water now. 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: In previous parts of the series we talked about, of course, 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: legendary lands of this sort Atlantis and other fictional or 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: mythical sunken civilizations. And sorry to be a bummer to 17 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: the many Atlantis hunters out there, but yes, it does 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: seem like the experts on the original sources that this 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: story comes from, namely a couple of dialogues of Plato, 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: think that it probably is a fictional invention and not 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: a reference to a real place that existed but that 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that there are not lands that have been 23 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: within the history of the human species submerged by water. 24 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: In fact, we know of some examples of places that 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: were both inhabited by humans and sunk under the water, 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 1: not really anything like was described in the Atlantis story, 27 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: but there are examples of the sunken land masses of 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Beringia and dogger Land, which during and briefly after the 29 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: Last Ice Age formed land bridges between North America and Asia, 30 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: and Great Britain and continental Europe perspectively. We also talked 31 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: about vanished islands in the Pacific. Some of these supposedly 32 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: vanished islands are probably a result of errors in their 33 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: original reporting, but others are places that probably actually did 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: vanish or sink beneath the water due to cataclysmic seismic activity. 35 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: We also talked about atolls, how they're formed, and where 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: their central islands went. There was a hypothesis that Darwin 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: had about this going all the way back to his 38 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: voyage on the Beagle. There are new ideas related to 39 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: karcification and the dissolution of carbonate rock or limestone when 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: it's exposed over the surface of the sea. Dissolution by 41 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: rain water. And then also finally, in the last episode, 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: we talked about places that have been flooded by damming, 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: the damming of freshwater resources, damming rivers and streams to 44 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: end up submerging areas that used to be exposed land 45 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: now under lakes. 46 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: Now. A quick note on just the idea of sunken 47 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: islands and sunken lands. We had a listener ask about 48 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 3: this and discord, so I want to just briefly point 49 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 3: out that, especially in our discussion of atolls in the 50 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: last episode, the terms sunk in or to sink may 51 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: ultimately be too simplistic for these discussions because they're all 52 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 3: very based on the human perspective of what's going on. 53 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: And in any case, we're talking about situations that may 54 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: entail both rising and lowering sea levels, as well as 55 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: land that is pushed up and or created by volcanic, organic, 56 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: or seismic forces, and land that lowers sometimes beneath water 57 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: level due to erosion, seismic forces, etc. So just in 58 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: all cases, just keep in mind that, yeah, sunk in 59 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 3: sinking maybe doesn't fully capture the picture of what's going on. 60 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: Well. Actually, as luck would have it, I do want 61 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: to get to one example of actual sinking of lands 62 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: in just a bit here. So in the background of 63 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: discussing these historical cases of landscapes covered by rising seas, 64 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: there is the knowledge that most of us have now 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: that relatively rapid increases in sea level are happening right 66 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: now and will continue in the coming decades due to 67 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: climate change, due to the warming of the seas, the 68 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: melting of glaciers. Sea level changes have happened on Earth before. 69 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: But one thing that's different now is how much of 70 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: the physical infrastructure and culture of modern human civilization was 71 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: designed on the assumption of current sea levels staying where 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: they are. Whole cities, whole countries even are threatened by 73 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: rising waters because they have been built without those rising 74 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: waters in mind. 75 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the very places we've discussed, at least 76 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: in passing in these episodes, like the Maldives, are greatly 77 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 3: threatened by these rising sea waters. 78 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, But of course this applies to coastal settlements 79 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: all over the world, on every continent on Earth, though 80 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: though in different ways. Not every coastal settlement will be 81 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: affected the same, And I want to get to some 82 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: of that variance in just a bit here. But as 83 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: a baseline, I thought we should look at how much 84 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: are sea levels expected to rise in the next century 85 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: or so. That depends on a number of variables, but 86 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: I was looking at the most recent IPCC report, which 87 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: had put together a series of estimates. First of all, 88 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: they look at the question of what is happening to 89 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: global mean sea level right now, what has already happened 90 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: in the traceable recent past, whatever happens in the future. 91 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: One thing we know for certain is that the sea 92 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: level is already rising and has already risen, and the 93 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: rate at which it rises will very likely accelerate in 94 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: the future. Based on our best measurements averaged over different 95 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: time periods, we can see that sea levels have risen 96 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: over the past century, and basically the more recent the 97 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: chunk of time you look at is the faster they're rising. 98 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: So the IPCC report points out that sea levels rose 99 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: about one point four millimeters per year if you look 100 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: at the time period nineteen oh one to nineteen ninety 101 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: If you shift more recently and look at nineteen seventy 102 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: to twenty five fifteen, it's two point one millimeters per year. 103 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: If you just look at nineteen ninety three, to twenty fifteen, 104 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: it's three point two millimeters per year. If you just 105 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: look at two thousand and six to twenty fifteen, it's 106 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: three point six millimeters per year. So the later the 107 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: period of the last century you look at, the more 108 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: it is rising per year. Now you might reasonably wonder, 109 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: how do you actually measure sea level down to the millimeter? 110 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: Like the top of the water is always moving, So 111 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: that's a reasonable question. What methods do you have to 112 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: know that the average level of the sea is rising. 113 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: There are a couple of major metrics here cited, and 114 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: I didn't fully know how these worked beforehand, so I 115 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: thought this was interesting. One method used is tide gauges. 116 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: These systems have been used in some form to record 117 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: sea levels for hundreds of years, or at least going 118 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: back I think to the early eighteen hundreds, though now 119 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: they've changed form to incorporate different types of sensors and 120 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: computers other modern components, but they still have some things 121 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: in common. So the old method here was that they 122 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: would use a device called a stilling well, and this 123 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: was basically a pipe about a foot wide that would 124 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: be plunged down into the water from a place called 125 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: a tide station essentially a house built out on a dock, 126 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: and this pipe would still the water around a floating device. 127 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: The float would be suspended down into the well by 128 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: a wire, and then that wire would be attached at 129 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: the other end to a recording device, which might be 130 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: something like a pin that would mark the water level 131 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: automatically on a paper strip. So the float floats on 132 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: the top of the water. As the water rises, the 133 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: pin moves and marks that level on the paper strip. 134 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: As the water goes down, the pin moves again, and 135 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: then these marks were analyzed and averaged together to form 136 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: a picture of the tidal variance and the average sea 137 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: level over time. This method changed so that the data 138 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: could be fed directly into computers, and these tide stations 139 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: also they had measuring staffs as well. You've probably seen 140 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: things like this somewhere around the coast before, where it's 141 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: just like a stick poking out of the water. Is 142 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: basically a ruler, you know, it's got height markings on them, 143 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: and then the operators could visually observe the staff and 144 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: compare that to the mechanical readings from the float device. Now, 145 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: tide gauges still exist, and they still make readings, but 146 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: they've got new systems, new types of sensors today to 147 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: get their readings from. Modern tide gauges tend to use 148 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: acoustic sounding tubes instead of a float and distilling well. 149 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: So the acoustic sounding tube will admit, will emit a 150 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: sound wave from a fixed height and then wait for 151 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: it to bounce off of the water's surface and come back. 152 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: And the time to return of the signal allows you 153 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: to calculate the height of the water across the tidal variants. 154 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: So you can put in place these tide gauges in 155 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: coastal environments all around the world and average them out 156 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: to try to get some information about what the global 157 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: sea levels are doing all around the world. And if 158 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: you look at that information, it shows yes, indeed the 159 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: sea levels have been rising. They've been rising over the 160 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 1: last century along the lines of the measurements I mentioned 161 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: a minute ago. But if you're able, you'd also want 162 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: to compare that data to other sources of information to 163 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: make sure you're getting the most accurate possible average. So 164 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: there is another method that is used, and that is altimetry. 165 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: This is the use of satellite based tools called radar 166 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: altimeters to measure the height of the sea. Basically, you 167 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: can know the altitude of a satellite with a high 168 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: degree of precision. You can track that with instruments like 169 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: laser range rangefinders, like you bounce a laser off the satellite, 170 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: so you can tell pretty much exactly how high it is. 171 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: And then with that information in mind, you can use 172 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: a satellite to send out a microwave pulse toward the Earth. 173 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: That pulse bounces off of the surface of the ocean 174 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: and then ounces back to the satellite and hits a 175 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: return sensor, and then the satellite measures the time of 176 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: the round trip between the emitter and the surface of 177 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: the ocean to get a very precise measurement of the 178 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: distance between the satellite and the water, which, again in 179 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: combination with the precisely known altitude of the satellite, can 180 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: be used to measure the level of the sea. And 181 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: of course radar altimetry can be used to measure average 182 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: sea level changes over time and get global averages and stuff. 183 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: But it can be also used. I thought this was 184 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: interesting to measure variations in the height of the water 185 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: around the world at the same time, so a kind 186 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: of crazy thing about the ocean is that it is 187 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: not at the same height everywhere on Earth all the time. 188 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: That seems counterintuitive because you think of water in a 189 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: container like a bowl or something eventually finding you know, 190 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: finding its own level. It kind of levels out. But 191 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: across the world's oceans, there are peaks and valleys that 192 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: arise in certain places at certain times, and so one 193 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: example we're all familiar with is the tide. You know, 194 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: the tide is caused mainly by gravity, by the gravitational 195 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: influence of the Moon, but also the Sun, but there 196 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: are other factors that can cause local and sometimes temporary 197 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: high and low altitudes of seawater as well. I was 198 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: reading a report from NASA Earth Observatory about this and 199 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: it mentioned friction caused by wind on the surface of 200 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: the water. So like wind sort of dragging the water 201 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: around and piling it up in certain places. I guess 202 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: that's a crude way of describing it, but that is 203 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: sort of what happens. There are also Coriolis effects and 204 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: ocean currents, and there are also effects of variations in 205 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: atmospheric pressure, so you know, the atmosphere pushing the surface 206 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: of the water down in regions where the pressure is 207 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: high and so forth, and we can measure these altitude 208 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: variations across the ocean with the help of satellite based 209 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: radar altimetry. As just one example of the variance in 210 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: the high of the oceans around the world. According to NASA, 211 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: the sea level in the Pacific Ocean is generally higher 212 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: than the Atlantic Ocean, roughly twenty centimeters or about eight 213 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: inches higher. How is that possible, Well, the volume of 214 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: seawater is not static. Changes in the temperature and salinity 215 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: of seawater affect its density, so warmer water generally is 216 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: less dense it takes up more space per unit of mass. 217 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: The Pacific is on average warmer, so its volume is greater, 218 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: and thus Pacific sea levels are higher and other factors 219 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: contribute like this as well. This kind of variation is 220 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: actually acknowledged in the IPCC report where they say quote 221 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: sea level rise is not globally uniform and varies regionally. 222 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: Thermal expansion, ocean dynamics, and land ice loss contributions will 223 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: generate regional departures of about plus or minus thirty percent 224 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: around the global means sea level rise, and those regional 225 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: variations in changes in sea level I want to come 226 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: back to that in a minute. Now, of course, we 227 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: all know the main cause of the current warming that 228 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: is driving sea level rise is of course what the 229 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: IPCC report calls anthropogenic forcing. This means results of human activity, 230 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: primarily the changing of the composition of the atmosphere causing 231 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: it to trap more heat. This is the famous greenhouse effect. 232 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: Putting more things like carbon methane into the atmosphere increases 233 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: the heat trapping potency of the atmosphere. It traps more 234 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: heat the earth worms. So we know sea levels have 235 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: been rising and they will continue to rise, but how 236 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: much and how fast they rise is highly variable from 237 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: our current point of view. So there are some estimates 238 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,479 Speaker 1: based on current data. According to the IPCC predictions relative 239 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: to the mean sea level in the period from nineteen 240 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: eighty six to two thousand and five, they predict that 241 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: the global mean sea level will rise probably somewhere between 242 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: zero point four to three meters or about one point 243 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: four feet to zero point eight four meters, which is 244 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: about two point eight feet, by the year twenty one hundred, 245 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: and then due to a cascade of factors, sea levels 246 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: will continue to rise for centuries after that, and will 247 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: probably stay higher for thousands of years. Now. I wouldn't 248 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: hang on those exact numbers too much because those are estimates. 249 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: They are also averages of estimates, and I've seen other 250 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: reports with different estimates, especially at the high end of 251 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: like how bad could it possibly get if we just 252 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: keep increasing more and more greenhouse gas emissions? But the 253 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: important thing to note is that the high and low 254 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: end projections here are dependent on the variable of human activity. 255 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: If we continue increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases in 256 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: the atmosphere, we're somewhat closer to the top end of 257 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: that range, and the low end is feasible if we 258 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: drastically reduce greenhouse gas output and factor in some kind 259 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: of negative emissions as well, such as massive natural or 260 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: artificial carbon sequestration. And natural carbon sequestration would be I think, 261 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, trapping carbon in things like plants and forests. 262 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, so as is I've heard a lot of experts 263 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: say it's not that there isn't room for optimism in 264 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 3: all of this, but the optimism does not come without action, right, 265 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 3: there are definite steps that need to be taken. We 266 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: can't just be like, ah, it might be, it might 267 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 3: be okay, maybe it's just gonna be the lower We'll 268 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: just we'll roll the dice and see, like, that's not 269 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 3: how it's going to work out. 270 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. The lower end of the prediction 271 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: range there is based on an assumption of action if 272 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: humanity does something to massively reduce the contribution to global 273 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: warming through greenhouse gases. So in that case, yes, we 274 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: could limit it to the lower levels of sea level rise. 275 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: But to be clear, some amount of sea level rise 276 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: at this point has already happened and is basically locked in. 277 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: The question is how much worse will it get, and 278 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: that outcome is clearly dependent to a large extent on 279 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: what we do, But in most plausible scenarios we can 280 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: expect somewhere between something like one and three feet of 281 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: global sea level rise by the end of this century. 282 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: Now I mentioned there are other estimates I've come across. 283 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: Some of these are specifically focused on like certain countries 284 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: or regions, or might be drawing on some emphasizing different 285 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: data sources or something. But another estimate I came across 286 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: was a twenty twenty two joint report by NASA, the NOAA, 287 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: and several other federal agencies of the US government called 288 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: Global and Regional Sea Level Rise Scenarios for the United States. 289 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: This was an update to a previous report from twenty seventeen, 290 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: and this report quote concludes that sea level along US 291 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: coast lines will rise ten to twelve inches or twenty 292 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: five to thirty centimeters on average above today's levels by 293 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: twenty fifty. So that's predicting, you know, roughly a foot 294 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: of increase by the middle of the century. Also on 295 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: the more dire end, this one was predicting much higher 296 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: levels of sea level rise at the you know, basically 297 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: at the letter rip scenario. It's just like do nothing 298 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: scenario by the end of this century. If you want 299 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: to experiment with the findings of this report, it actually 300 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: has an online mapping tool you can look up you 301 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: and mess around with yourself, called the Interagency Sea Level 302 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: Rise Scenario Tool. You can google that and mess with 303 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: it yourself if you want. Now, there are a couple 304 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: of major contributors to the actual physical causes of sea 305 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: level rise due to a warming climate. One of them 306 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: is melting ice melting glaciers and ice sheets. Already talked 307 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: about the roll of melting ice in the sea level 308 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: increases at the end of the Pleistocene, which were responsible 309 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: for inundating Doggerland and Boringia. But there's still a lot 310 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: of ice on Earth left to melt. Another important cause 311 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: of sea level rise is the thermal expansion of water. 312 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: Remember what I was talking about a minute ago with 313 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: the difference in the height of the Pacific Ocean versus 314 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: the Atlantic Ocean. One factor there being that the Pacific 315 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: Ocean waters on average are warmer. This stacks on top 316 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: of the melting, but as water heats up, it becomes 317 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: less dense and takes up more space. Warmer water takes 318 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: up more space pre unit of mass, so warmer oceans 319 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: will be taller. And the thermal expansion of water plays 320 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: a role already in a number of different phenomena that 321 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: happened within the ocean, for example in the in the 322 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: creation of ocean currents and in stratification of water levels 323 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: within the ocean. Like warmer water floats on top of 324 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: colder water, but anyway, as the earth worms, the water 325 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: thermally expands also, so that contributes to the sea level 326 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: being higher. Now, what does this actually mean for the 327 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: everyday life of people living in low lying coastal areas 328 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: of planet Earth. I think one thing people sometimes like, 329 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: if you haven't read much about this, you might have 330 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: trouble imagining the form exactly this will take. Like you're 331 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: just imagining the sea rising in a kind of static way, 332 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: Like you know, it's either dry land or it's underwater, 333 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: what's in between. There actually is something in between, which 334 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: is frequent flooding. The way many people will probably experience 335 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: sea level rise at first is an increase in the 336 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: frequency and destructiveness of extreme weather events that are dependent 337 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: on sea level for the amount of damage they cause. 338 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: So a person who lives in a low lying coastal 339 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: city will start dealing with storm related floods on a 340 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: more and more frequent basis. What used to be a 341 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: once in a century flood will become a regular occurrence, 342 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: until at some point the flooding becomes so common that 343 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: people may start to simply consider a place uninhabitable. And 344 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: this happens before that place is more or less permanently underwater, 345 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: But that eventually happens too. Of course, this kind of 346 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: flooding and water encroachment, it comes with all kinds of 347 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: consequences of massive economic damage, destruction of property, destruction, of livelihoods, 348 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: displacement of people, and all of the downstream effects of that. 349 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: But another factor people might not think about are the 350 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: effects of the ingress of salt water into places with 351 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: freshwater resources, like into river deltas and so forth. Of course, 352 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: this kind have negative effects on habitats and wildlife, but 353 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: also on agriculture and groundwater and all that. You don't 354 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: want to salt your earth. But to come back to 355 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: an issue I raised earlier, an interesting factor contributing to 356 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: the coming inundation of coastal areas and especially coastal cities 357 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: is that not only are sea levels definitely rising around 358 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: the globe and differently in different places, in some places 359 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: the ground is literally sinking. The lands are not just 360 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: metaphorically sunken because the water covers them, they are quite 361 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: literally directly sunken. The land is going down. So you 362 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: might have a coastal city that is experiencing more and 363 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: more frequent flooding during storm surges as the sea grows taller, 364 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: but also the ground level of the city is several 365 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: millimeters lower every year, which makes the relative sea level 366 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,239 Speaker 1: rise even worse. Now, how is that possible? Well, there 367 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: are multiple causes but I was reading about this in 368 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: a major One of the causes seems to be the 369 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: extraction of ground water from underlying aquifers, especially you're extracting 370 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: it faster than those aquifers are replenished, and as the 371 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: water is extracted, it creates these voids underground. These voids grow, 372 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: the soil gets compressed, especially if you're putting a bunch 373 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: of heavy stuff on the soil, such as a city 374 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: like building on top of it, and then that compressing 375 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: of the ground and the compressing into the voids below 376 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: essentially means the city literally starts to sink. And this 377 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: is happening to cities all around the world. I was 378 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: reading a really interesting article that addresses this issue. It's 379 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: in Wired by Matt Simon called sea level rise will 380 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: be catastrophic and unequal. So this article is emphasizing again 381 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: that the global means sea level rise estimates are averages. 382 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: In specific places, the problem could be not as bad 383 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: or much much worse. Simon writes, quote, Galveston, Texas, where 384 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: the land is slumping, could see almost two feet of 385 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: rise by the year twenty fifty. Meanwhile, Anchorage, Alaska could 386 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 1: see eight inches of sea level drop thanks to the 387 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: fact that its land is actually rising following the departure 388 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: of long gone glaciers. So why is Galveston, Texas sinking 389 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: relative to the sea level? He says, mainly there are 390 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: two causes here, and they're both related to the extraction 391 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: of liquids from underground reservoirs. One is the extraction of 392 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: water and the other is oil extraction of oil. And 393 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: this is true in many places as a result of 394 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: the combination of global sea level rise and land subsidence. 395 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: Some of the areas of the world that are going 396 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: to be the hardest hit by the greatest relative local 397 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: sea level rise are on the Gulf Coast of the 398 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: United States, the Gulf Coast, because they're suffering both of 399 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: these at the same time. The land is going down 400 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: and the sea is coming up. Simon in this article 401 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: quotes a guy named Bob Stokes who is president of 402 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: the conservation nonprofit called the Galveston Bay Foundation, and he 403 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: tells a story that I thought was wild. So this 404 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: is Stokes talking in the article. He says, quote, the 405 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: numbers I'm going to give you are are going to 406 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 1: be hard to believe. But there is an area in 407 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: Baytown where there is a big ex On mobile industrial 408 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: plant that sank about eleven feet in a period of 409 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: fifty or sixty years because they were unsustainably pulling water 410 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: out of there. There was a nice and upper middle 411 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: class subdivision where all the Exxon executives lived that ultimately 412 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: had to be condemned because water was lapping up the 413 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: foundations of these houses. So there water and oil being 414 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: extracted from below. The land is sinking and the sea 415 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: is coming up. Meanwhile, with the example of Anchorage, Alaska, 416 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: this is typical of many areas on the southern coast 417 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: of Alaska where the ground is rising due to glacial retreat. 418 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: This is called glacial isostatic adjustment, and Simon uses the 419 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: analogy of when you get up off of a memory 420 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: foam mattress and that mattress gradually fills in the dent 421 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: he left with your body. That's kind of what the 422 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: land does when a glacier retreats. When a glacier melts away, 423 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: it sort of bounces back up. So areas where the 424 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: land is rising relative to the sea are going to 425 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: be on average hit less by global mean sea level increases, 426 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: and areas where the land is literally sinking such as 427 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: in many cities on the Gulf Coast they're going to 428 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: be hit harder than average, and there are a lot 429 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: of sinking cities, not just on the Gulf Coast, but 430 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: according to the map included all along the US East coast. Now, 431 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: this article goes on to talk about other factors contributing 432 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: to the regional variation in the effects of sea level 433 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: rise as well, such as local characteristics of water. You know, 434 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: warmer waters, as we said earlier, usually mean higher sea levels, 435 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: but also more storm surge and things like that. But 436 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: important thing to remember at the end of this projections 437 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: are variable. At this point, some amount of sea level 438 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: rise is locked in, but humanity has power over how 439 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: much worse the problem gets, and the recipe for minimizing 440 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: damage to world civilization is reducing greenhouse gases in the 441 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: atmosphere as much as possible, stop adding them, and to 442 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: the extent possible, take them out. 443 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, basically, the natural environment is maluable, as we've discussed, 444 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 3: and humanity has tremendous power and tremendous will. We see 445 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 3: that in the in the in the degree to which 446 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: we have and are changing things. But that power and 447 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,479 Speaker 3: will can also be applied to changing the ways that 448 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 3: we're interacting with the natural world for the better. But again, 449 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 3: it does require action. It doesn't require just setting back 450 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 3: and hoping that it will be better or pretending that 451 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 3: the problem does not exist. 452 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: Correct. 453 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 3: All right, So this is the fourth part of our series, 454 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 3: and we could, we could honestly easily keep going, but 455 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 3: we can't because I've got some Christma stuff to do 456 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 3: next week. So in this last section, I'd like to 457 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 3: refer to the ancient Hindu Hindu epic the Ramayana, which 458 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,959 Speaker 3: I do want to add a note. I've brought this up 459 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 3: in the show, but I've brought the topic up on 460 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 3: the show before, but I don't know that I've been 461 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 3: using the proper pronunciation. I may have said it wrong 462 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 3: in the past, in which case my apologies. But the Ramayana, 463 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 3: which chronicles the life of King Rama or Ram, an 464 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 3: incarnation of Vishnu. If you're not familiar with the story, 465 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 3: there are lots of ins and outs. It's essentially the 466 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 3: story of of this mythical king, this divine king's life. 467 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 3: But there's perhaps the most famous plot line in there 468 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 3: is that his wife Sita is kidnapped by the ten 469 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 3: headed demon king of Ravana, who takes her away to 470 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 3: the land of Lanka, provoking a great war to reclaim her. So, 471 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 3: of course Rama has to assemble the troops. He has 472 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 3: to gather his forces, and this includes various figures and factions, 473 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 3: including a people known as the Vanara. In short, the 474 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 3: Vanara are the monkeys. If you've seen illustrations of the 475 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 3: Ramayana before, you know some of the related traditions. You 476 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 3: you've probably seen images of these various monkey troops aiding Rama. 477 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,239 Speaker 3: And of course you may be familiar with Haniman, the 478 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 3: most famous of the Vannara. This is, you know, the 479 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 3: tireless friend to Rama and his you know, his key 480 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 3: champion and a very powerful entity that is I believe 481 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 3: the son of a wind deity in some traditions. So 482 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 3: but I was looking into the Venera a bit more. 483 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 3: And according to the author Nanditha Krishna in the book 484 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 3: Sacred Animals of India, which I've referred to in the past, 485 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 3: the Sanskrit word for primate is actually copy but the 486 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 3: word used in the Ramayana Vanara essentially translates to people 487 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 3: of the forest, with Vana being forest and Nara being men. 488 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 3: Interesting yeah, the author writes that this term probably never 489 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 3: actually meant monkey. In fact, in Jainism, the Vanara are 490 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: described as a forest dwelling tribe of people, and elsewhere 491 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 3: in the Hindu epic the Mahabarata, they are also discussed 492 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 3: as such, contributing to this kind of mythic transformation from perhaps, 493 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 3: you know, some sort of forest dwelling people, too intelligent 494 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 3: humanoid primates. It might have been that these people, to 495 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 3: whatever extent you know, they were real. They may have 496 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 3: been worshippers of a primate themed deity, or they might 497 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 3: have used a some sort of primate themed totem of 498 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 3: some sort, or some sort of totem system. But the 499 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 3: author's stresses that it could also be neither of these. 500 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 3: We just don't know, And so the Bnara include several 501 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: important individuals that pop up in the epic. There's Mighty Hanaman, 502 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 3: as we already noted, most famous of them all. There's 503 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 3: King Sogriva, and there's also a pair of twins known 504 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 3: as Nala and Nila. And the twins ate is especially 505 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 3: important because Rama must deliver his army across the waters 506 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 3: to the island fortress of Lanka in order to reclaim 507 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,239 Speaker 3: his bride, and so, as the epic describes, they have 508 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 3: to create a bridge. And this is where Nala and 509 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 3: sometimes Nila depending on the version, becomes essential. This is 510 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 3: a quote from the Ramayana in translation of course, quote 511 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: a bridge was thrown by Nala or the narrow sea 512 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: from shore to shore. They crossed to Lanka's golden town, 513 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 3: where Rama's hands smote Ravana down. 514 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: A bridge was thrown. Wow, how do you throw a bridge? 515 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 3: Well, this is where this sort of things get get interesting, 516 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 3: dissecting all of this because the accounts apparently vary. In 517 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 3: some cases, the resulting bridge that gets thrown or constructed 518 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 3: is in fact a great bridge that it's you know, 519 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 3: something built. It's constructed. It's perhaps made. It would at 520 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 3: the base and then become stone further up. You know, 521 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 3: it is like a huge megawork that connects one land 522 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: to the next so that the army can march over it. 523 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 3: Other times it's described more as I mean, it's still 524 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 3: something that's constructed, but with a lot more magic involved. 525 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: Like there are stories about the Varna using floating stones 526 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 3: to build this bridge, throwing the stones in the water, 527 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 3: and in some cases these are stones that kind of 528 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 3: float on their own already. But then there are other 529 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 3: accounts where like there's a certain amount of monkey trickiness 530 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 3: that's involved, like they do something like I think the 531 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 3: account that I was reading, one of the accounts is 532 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 3: that they were like throwing holy items into the water, 533 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 3: and the gods said, okay, that's that nothing. The monkey's 534 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 3: throwing the water can sink. Everything has to float. We 535 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 3: can't have the stuff sinking to the bottom. And then 536 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 3: they starts throwing the stones in and they kind of 537 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 3: find a loophole to build the bridge. 538 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: Brilliant leve a loophole. 539 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, but at any rate, there's no like one way. 540 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 3: Apparently there are different accounts, different stories, but we end 541 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 3: up with the idea of a bridge one way or another. 542 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: This is Rama's bridge or the Rama sit to now, 543 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 3: especially since this has already come up in this series 544 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 3: we're doing, I know some of you are thinking about 545 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 3: those floating pumice rocks and wondering if observations of this 546 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 3: phenomenon might have influenced the myth making or if this 547 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 3: has anything to do with it, And apparently this has 548 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 3: been discussed those the number of criticisms emerge concerning like 549 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 3: the lack of such stones in areas that are discussed 550 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 3: as possibly linking up with the area where this great 551 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 3: bridge could have been or its supposed to have been. 552 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 3: More on that in a second, And then of course 553 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 3: you get into some other situations too, Like it's one 554 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 3: thing for you could I guess you could say, like 555 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 3: the idea could be passed on and then could spill 556 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 3: over into some myth making. But could you actually build 557 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 3: a bridge using pummice stones? I think there's significantly less 558 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 3: evidence for that. 559 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, would they support your weight? I mean I would 560 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: think it'd be more like the you know, the ball pit, 561 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: you kind of fall in between them. 562 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think they're also just more convincing ideas 563 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 3: regarding all of this. So, of course, the big questions 564 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 3: here would be, Okay, first of all, did something even 565 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 3: remotely like the events of this Hindu epic ever take place? 566 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 3: And if so, where did it take place? Where would 567 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 3: this bridge have been, and what land masses would it 568 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 3: have been linking So versions of question one, to be clear, 569 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 3: turn up in all religions, and they're often asked with 570 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 3: different objectives in mind. Very broadly speaking, some researchers seek 571 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 3: to prove religious accounts correct by finding corroborating evidence in archaeology, history, 572 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 3: and geology, while others seek to employ religious text to 573 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 3: it to better understand human and geologic history. Again very 574 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 3: broadly speaking, because you can wind up with a little 575 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 3: bit of column A and column b and vice versa, 576 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 3: and human motivations are ultimately complicated, But it also means 577 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 3: that these sorts of discussions can generate strong emotions as well. 578 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 3: So I would suppose we should stress something that we 579 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 3: often touch on, that mythology is not fiction, even if 580 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 3: it is not objective of reality. Not to say that 581 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 3: it is necessarily completely removed from objective reality, but it's 582 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 3: kind of this third category between the two that can 583 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 3: still empower us on multiple levels and give life meaning 584 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 3: without being like one to one with the objective world. 585 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I've often spoken this opinion with reference to 586 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: things like the creation story told in Genesis or something 587 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: that are you sure that the people who first wrote 588 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: this story even necessarily meant it to be taken as 589 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,720 Speaker 1: a literal, factual account. 590 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, it kind of comes back to 591 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 3: some of the things we're discussing just concerning some of 592 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 3: these ideas of different lost islands and so forth. It's 593 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 3: like we always want to find that one reason, that 594 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 3: one explanation, and you know, oftentimes, especially when we're dealing 595 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 3: with things like this, that are concepts that exist not 596 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 3: only in one human imagination, but in multiple human imaginations 597 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 3: spread out across different communities and cultures over long stretches 598 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 3: of time. There's a lot of room for various influence 599 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 3: is to shape the final form of the thing. So, anyway, 600 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 3: coming to this idea of a bridge, where would you 601 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 3: possibly look for evidence of this? So a lot of 602 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 3: it comes down to the possible location of the island 603 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 3: of Lanka. And there's a great deal of scholarship on 604 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 3: this question alone, with the prime candidate seeming to be 605 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 3: the island of Sri Lanka. The Maldives, Sumatra, and even 606 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 3: Madagascar have also been discussed, and of course, conspiracy minded 607 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 3: folks are not above suggesting Atlantis. It was Atlantis, but 608 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 3: it was Yeah, it was not Atlantis. So for our 609 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 3: purposes here, we're going to focus mostly on Sri Lanka 610 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 3: as that's where there's some really interesting evidence to discuss, 611 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 3: and that seems where to be where a lot of 612 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 3: the energy seems to be going. Sri Lanka is easily 613 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 3: spotted on any map, separated from the Indian Peninsula by 614 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: the Gulf of Manar and the palk Straight. It is 615 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 3: been inhabited by humans since prehistoric times, and so it's 616 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 3: you know, it's been presented, and there's additional evidence to 617 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 3: support this idea as well that we don't have time 618 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 3: to get into. But a lot of people make the 619 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 3: case that Sri Lanka was Lanka. And so, yeah, how 620 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 3: would you get an army, an ancient army, supernatural otherwise 621 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 3: from point A to point B. Well, this is of 622 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 3: course where the bridge comes in. And of course, in 623 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 3: the context of a mythic story, you know, the bridge 624 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 3: doesn't have to be anything that corresponds with actual geology 625 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 3: or time specific technology. I mean, people can imagine bridges 626 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 3: spanning impossible distances, that sort of thing. I think all 627 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 3: that goes without saying. And there's plenty of things that 628 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 3: happen in the Hindu epics that are inherently supernatural, but 629 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 3: attempts to nail down a possible actual bridge to Sri 630 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 3: Lanka would constitute either a manufactured bridge and or a 631 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 3: naturally occurring bridge. It's the idea of at least some 632 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 3: level of naturally occurring bridge. This is where it gets 633 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 3: really interesting, because there is a chain of limestone shoals 634 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 3: between Minar Island off the northwest coast of Sri Lanka 635 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 3: and Ramaswaram Island off the southeast coast of India, interconnected 636 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 3: with sandbanks. It all forms a thirty mile or forty 637 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 3: eight kilometer long quote unquote bridge and it is shallow 638 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 3: enough to pose a navigational hazard to ships. 639 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: Oh okay, So it's almost like, if you know, if 640 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: the water levels were a little bit lower or something 641 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: were piled up here, you can imagine something like a 642 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: bridge emerging. 643 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And so this and this is something that 644 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 3: has captivated the human imagination for a while and cause 645 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 3: people to, you know, logically, wonder could this be what 646 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 3: the epics are talking about? So this is also commonly 647 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 3: known as Adams Bridge. The name linked to an Islamic 648 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 3: tradition and I think sometimes a Christian tradition as well 649 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 3: that holds that Adam's Peak on Sri Lanka is where 650 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 3: the first human in Abrahamic traditions fell to earth, and 651 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 3: the mountain in question here is also sacred in Hinduism. Anyway, 652 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 3: there's a lot of evidence to suggest that these shoals 653 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 3: and sandbars constitute a former land bridge, though estimated dates vary. 654 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 3: Cartographical records suggests that it may have been whole and 655 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 3: even traversible until the year fourteen eighty, and the beginning 656 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 3: in fourteen eighty you might have had a series of 657 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 3: storms that ended up washing sections of it away, storm 658 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 3: breaches that end up making taking away this portion of it, 659 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 3: then another portion, until you're left with something that is 660 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 3: no longer traversible. Ah. 661 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: Well, so that is much more recent than any of 662 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: the than the land bridges we've been talking about in 663 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,959 Speaker 1: the other episodes of like the or the so called 664 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: land bridges, the former areas of dogger Land and Beringia, 665 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: which are that are now underwater and have been for 666 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 1: many thousands of years. This is just a question of 667 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: a few centuries comparatively very recent, if true. 668 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, though of course there are all sorts of 669 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 3: questions that arise in this, like is it too recent, 670 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 3: is it something that would be something that might have 671 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 3: emerged and then resemble something from pre existing mythology, or 672 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 3: as indeed, as many people believe, is it evidence of 673 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 3: something that is described in the Hindu epics, So it's 674 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 3: fascinating to think about those things, and also thinking about 675 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 3: like reports of it being traversible from centuries past, like 676 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 3: to what extent can we trust those We've already talked 677 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 3: about whole islands that have been cataloged due to various 678 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 3: errors or sort of deciding to err on the side 679 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,839 Speaker 3: of caution when identifying things that could be a navigational 680 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 3: hazard to ships and so forth. But at any right, 681 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 3: there is evidence of something here, and there are various 682 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 3: theories about its natural formation. They ranged from tectonic forces 683 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 3: to coral sand trapping, water, current movements of sand, and 684 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 3: so forth. So there is this idea that it could 685 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 3: have been certainly a naturally occurring opportunity that could have 686 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,399 Speaker 3: been augmented then by human beings to some degree, which 687 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 3: I don't think is all that outrageous, at least if 688 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 3: you consider like small scale efforts to shore up or 689 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 3: repair individual segments in a chain like this, and then 690 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 3: on top of that, I mean, ancient peoples were certainly 691 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 3: capable of larger scale engineering projects as well, though based 692 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 3: on the sources I was looking at, I don't think 693 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 3: there's any strong scientific evidence for the idea that it 694 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 3: was largely constructed or that it was constructed entirely. But 695 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 3: again this is an area of controversy. So setting aside 696 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 3: how it came to be, we can be reasonably sure 697 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 3: that remnants that the remnants we see here do constitute 698 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 3: a one time land bridge that in its current form 699 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 3: is no longer traversible, likely due to changes in sea 700 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 3: level and storm activity some combination of the two. And 701 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 3: there have been proposals to dredge more of it out 702 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:12,399 Speaker 3: in order to improve navigation by boat. But this is controversial, 703 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 3: both due to environmental reasons but also to religious objections. 704 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 3: And you also see proposals to rebuild the bridge quote unquote, 705 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 3: and this would be a project that would have tremendous 706 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 3: religious significance as well as of course just being like 707 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 3: a major avenue of transportation between nations. By the way, 708 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 3: we won't really have we don't have time to go 709 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 3: into this one. But I also wanted to acknowledge that 710 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 3: there is a mythical continent named Kumari condom linked in 711 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 3: some traditions to ideas like Limuria, that it have been 712 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 3: that would have been situated in the Indian Ocean. It 713 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 3: would have allegedly hosted an ancient Tamil civilization, and I 714 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 3: think it's generally described as a Tamilized take on the 715 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 3: concept of Limuria, So, you know, a fairly recent idea 716 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 3: in the grand scheme of things, But then in the 717 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 3: twentieth century the idea ends up being taken up by 718 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 3: Tamil revivalist so it has remained since that point a 719 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 3: culturally charged idea as well, which kind of takes us 720 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 3: back to a lot of what we were talking about 721 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 3: just in general, about the idea of sunken lands, whether 722 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 3: real or mythological, even fictional, and how the classifications may 723 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 3: shift over time, and how they can become important, they 724 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 3: can become vitally important, they can be things that are 725 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 3: sought after not only as a way to sort of 726 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 3: understand mysteries about the natural world, such as how similar 727 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 3: species can be found on two sides of a vast ocean, 728 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 3: but also in trying to make connections that aid in 729 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 3: the conceptualization of one's worldview that sort of thing. 730 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: Well, I think maybe that spells the end of our 731 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 1: exploration of sunken lands, but this has been a really 732 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: interesting journey to go on with you. 733 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 3: Rob, Yeah, this has been This has been a lot 734 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 3: of fun. I learned a lot, and I would love 735 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 3: to learn some more from listeners out there. If you 736 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 3: have some additional examples of anything we've discussed any of 737 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 3: the categories we've discussed in these episodes, If you have 738 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,439 Speaker 3: some first hand knowledge or observations you'd like to share 739 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 3: about the various places we've discussed, all of that is 740 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 3: fair game and we would love to hear from you. 741 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 3: Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow your Mind is 742 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,319 Speaker 3: primarily a science podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 743 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 3: On Mondays we do listener mail. On Wednesdays there tends 744 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,879 Speaker 3: to be a short form artifact or monster fact episode, 745 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 3: and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to 746 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,879 Speaker 3: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. 747 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,839 Speaker 3: I should point out I do not think we've done 748 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 3: an Atlantis movie on Weird House. I know we've had 749 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 3: some flooding occur in some of the shows we've watched, 750 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 3: but I don't recall Atlantis popping up. I could be wrong. 751 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,359 Speaker 3: There's a submerged city or two. I think a few 752 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:49,320 Speaker 3: submerged lands. 753 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: I watched a movie a few years back. That's about 754 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: just like there's like a hurricane and a flood, and 755 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: it's just about a bunch of gators getting in somebody's house. 756 00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: I forget what it's called. 757 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 3: It was pretty funny, like they're coming up the stairs, 758 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:03,720 Speaker 3: that sort of thing. 759 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: Swimming up the stairs, you know. 760 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 3: Oh nice. 761 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to look it up. It's not Gator from 762 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, so that has Burt Reynolds in it. 763 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: Now I kind of kind of need to see it. 764 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: Oh it might. It might not be about alligators. It 765 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: might be about a guy called Gator. 766 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 2: I don't know. 767 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,839 Speaker 3: All right, Well, this is this is also fair game 768 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 3: as well for anyone who wants to write in. If 769 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 3: you have suggestions for Atlantis based movies, sunken world movies 770 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 3: that we can discuss in Weird House Cinema, well we'd 771 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 3: love to get those as well. Oh. 772 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: I found what it was. It's called crawl. It starts 773 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,799 Speaker 1: in a crawl space and then the house is full 774 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: of gators as it floods. 775 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,720 Speaker 3: That's what it is, all right, that sounds great. 776 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,920 Speaker 1: It's great, Okay, anyway, huge thanks as always to our 777 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If you would like to 778 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode 779 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,800 Speaker 1: or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, 780 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: or just to say hello, you can email us at 781 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: contact that Stuff to Blow Your Mind dot com. 782 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 783 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,879 Speaker 2: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 784 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.