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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stepane

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Speaker 1: Never Told You Protection of I Heart Radio and for

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Speaker 1: today's Monday Mini, we are talking about something that I

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Speaker 1: have heard about a lot lately, seeing a lot about

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Speaker 1: a lot lately, which is people pleasing or the people pleaser,

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Speaker 1: which I do think again over the holidays is something

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Speaker 1: a lot of women feel pressured to do. And we'll

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Speaker 1: get more into what it is in a minute, but

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Speaker 1: I did notice when I went home for Thanksgiving this year,

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Speaker 1: my mom is such She's somebody who's so concerned about

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Speaker 1: taking care of everybody else, making sure everybody has anything,

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Speaker 1: that we had to constantly like her kids had to

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Speaker 1: constantly be like no, we're fine, Like we're fine, it's okay,

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Speaker 1: you can relax, it's fine. You don't have to do this,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to do this. And it was interesting

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Speaker 1: because it's the first time I've seen my brothers do it,

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Speaker 1: which I I was I was happy to see, but

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, it's a shift change, and

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Speaker 1: she she did listen, but I was I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I had never witnessed like the three of us coming

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Speaker 1: together to be like stop, it's okay. Growth I love

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Speaker 1: to see it growth. There was a lot of growth

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Speaker 1: that happened over the holidays. Actually UM for me, For me,

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Speaker 1: my family, people do write into me about people pleasing. Ah.

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Speaker 1: I would say that's one of the things when people

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Speaker 1: write in to me specifically, they'll say, your people pleasing

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Speaker 1: is showing or something about that. My friends bringing up

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Speaker 1: kind of often about me, and it has been showing

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Speaker 1: up as something of a trauma response and my feeds

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Speaker 1: more often. And there's been a lot of research about

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Speaker 1: that recently, so that makes sense and we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that as well. I do, as I said, think this

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Speaker 1: is important for the Hall of Days. I do think

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Speaker 1: this is something that skews towards women and marginalized folks

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Speaker 1: due to social conditioning, trauma rates, and general increased safety concerns.

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Speaker 1: We have so many episodes that expand on that UM

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Speaker 1: and there are some numbers about this, not too many though,

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Speaker 1: because it's kind of a new it's not a new

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Speaker 1: thing that's sort of a new area of research. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: researchers do think it's because of how we socialize women

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Speaker 1: to be caretakers and because of the higher rates of

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Speaker 1: trauma that they are more likely to be a people pleaser.

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Speaker 1: There's also a high documented rate for first generation immigrants

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Speaker 1: in people pleasing, so let's talk about that. But yes,

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Speaker 1: the definition of people pleasing, which is not a formal diagnosis,

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Speaker 1: by the way, it's an informal label for something a

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Speaker 1: lot of experts have observed. Um. It is also different

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Speaker 1: from kindness, which is important. Um, it's it's more about

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Speaker 1: always putting yourself last, trying to make everything about others.

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Speaker 1: But okay, yeah, let's get into some definitions. From Medical

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Speaker 1: News Today, the term people pleaser refers to a person

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Speaker 1: as a strong urge to please others, even at their

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Speaker 1: own expense. They may feel that their own wants and

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Speaker 1: needs do not matter, or alter their personality around others. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and web md says a people pleaser is typically someone

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Speaker 1: everyone considers helpful and kind. When you need help with

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Speaker 1: a project or someone to help you study for an exam,

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Speaker 1: they're more than willing to step up. If you recognize

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Speaker 1: yourself in the above description, you may be a people pleaser,

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Speaker 1: but at some point, constantly making yourself available to others

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Speaker 1: can take an emotional toll. You may find that you

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Speaker 1: neglect your own needs because you fear disappointing others when

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Speaker 1: they ask for your help. Yes, as a person in

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Speaker 1: social work who worked with people in social work constant, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's true. There's also the like work side

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Speaker 1: of this. We're mostly talking about kind of just you know,

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Speaker 1: social aspects in general. Yes, but I also like for

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Speaker 1: social workers goes one and the same, right right, right

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Speaker 1: right um. And signs from these sources of people pleasing

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Speaker 1: include agreeing with whoever is in front of you, apologizing

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Speaker 1: for things that aren't your fault to see our recent

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Speaker 1: happy hour, um. Not being able to say no, changing

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Speaker 1: your personality depending on who is around you, placing your

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Speaker 1: worth on others, finding it hard to say no to request,

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Speaker 1: regularly taking on extra work even if the person in

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Speaker 1: question does not have the time, often over committing in

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Speaker 1: plans to plans, responsibilities, or projects. Avoiding advocating for your

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Speaker 1: own needs, such as by saying you know you're fine

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Speaker 1: when you're not. Avoiding disagreeing with people are voicing honest opinions,

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Speaker 1: going along with things that you're not happy about to

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Speaker 1: avoid creating friction, willingness to put yourself in harm's way

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Speaker 1: for someone who wouldn't do the same for you, feeling

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Speaker 1: responsible for the actions of others, feeling guilty for being angry,

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Speaker 1: dissociating and social situations, constant feelings of guilt, feeling that

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Speaker 1: love has to be earned and if it is easily

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Speaker 1: given as not to be trusted, feeling alternatively too much

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Speaker 1: and not enough. So. Medical News Today goes further that

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Speaker 1: people pleasers may feel quote pressure to be friendly, nice,

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Speaker 1: or cheerful at all times, Anxious about creating an ease

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Speaker 1: or stating up for themselves, Stressed due to the commitments

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Speaker 1: that they have taken on, Frustrated that they never seem

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Speaker 1: to have time for themselves, that their own wants or

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Speaker 1: kneeds do not matter in comparison to others, and that

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Speaker 1: people take advantage of them. Yeah, and this is one

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Speaker 1: of those things where I was reading and I was like, oh, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: And one thing I will say a lot of feminist

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Speaker 1: opinions about this came up, was like, well know, I

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Speaker 1: will like, if there's an opinion I don't agree with,

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Speaker 1: I'll say something, which I will, but it's almost always

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Speaker 1: it's not you you're standing up for I guess right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So just a clarification on that, because a lot of

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Speaker 1: people were like, but I do see never stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my friends often say I never complain, which we've talked

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Speaker 1: about so many times. It's it's viewed as a positive

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Speaker 1: like being selfless, especially for women, is viewed as a

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Speaker 1: positive thing. And that's one of the reasons I want

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Speaker 1: to very much make it clear this is different from

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Speaker 1: being kind, because I love kindness and all about that,

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Speaker 1: but this is like you're always putting someone else first.

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Speaker 1: It's not that you're being kind. It might right kind,

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Speaker 1: but you're not being kind of help the other person,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't help you right exactly. But also that's

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Speaker 1: the bigger conversation on the other side, for those who

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Speaker 1: do complain, they are too they're unrateful. So there's no

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Speaker 1: middle ground to this, to that like your if you

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Speaker 1: do one, you're ungrateful, if you do the other, you're

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Speaker 1: too passive. Or this is seen as a good thing,

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Speaker 1: and they're highlighting your your need to sacrifice yourself, which

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Speaker 1: is yeah, it is too It is too put on

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Speaker 1: a pedestal in this level of society where yeah, running

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Speaker 1: yourself ragged means that you're a kind person, instead of

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Speaker 1: saying that the others to allowing you to do this

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Speaker 1: are probably cruel. Yeah, yeah, well, and that's the thing,

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Speaker 1: Like there's definitely people who will just take advantage of you,

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Speaker 1: But then there's also situations where and we talked about

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Speaker 1: this for me a lot, it's happening right now, I

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Speaker 1: get I just feel like I have to say yes

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Speaker 1: to hey, I have to and they wouldn't care. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: they probably wouldn't care. I could just be like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm busy, I'm tired of X y Z,

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Speaker 1: and they'd be like, okay, next time. But instead I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna move I'm gonna move mountains to make this happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna find a place in my calendar and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna make it work. And you know that's they probably

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Speaker 1: don't even want it, like a tired version of me

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Speaker 1: to show up anyway, Like I don't know. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of levels to it, for sure. Most of these

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Speaker 1: mannerisms of people pleasing do manifest in childhood, and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of reasons why it can be bad.

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Speaker 1: You might lose sight of who you are, your wants,

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Speaker 1: your needs, no time for self care, resentment and ability

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Speaker 1: to enjoy things for yourself, stress, exhaustion and relationship issues

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Speaker 1: more trauma. I've seen it play out with a lot

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Speaker 1: of my friends. I've seen it play out with myself.

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Speaker 1: It's like burnout. It's like a form of burnout. And

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Speaker 1: my mom and I were talking about it, and we

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Speaker 1: have the same experience. When people ask is like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can you do this for me? Will you do this

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Speaker 1: for me? It's yes, like a panic, you say yes.

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Speaker 1: And she said she talked to her therapist about it,

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Speaker 1: and her therapist was like, it's it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: you're having your fight or flight or fright reaction and

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Speaker 1: yours is yes, And so I totally get that. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about that little bit more like the phrase

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Speaker 1: where I just ignore things. That's actually we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about that in a second. It but it actually

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Speaker 1: can be helpful of your people pleasers, as I want

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Speaker 1: you to have an emotional reaction. But yes, um, so,

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Speaker 1: why does people pleasing happen? There are a couple of

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Speaker 1: main reasons. Low self esteem, anxiety or wanting to fit in,

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Speaker 1: conflict avoidance, possibly due to trauma, culture and socialization, inequity

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Speaker 1: like benevolent sexism, um personality disorders and trauma, and Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Studies have found that people with the history of trauma

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Speaker 1: have a higher likelihood of being people pleasers, of course,

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Speaker 1: because they want to be accepted. Um. And this is

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Speaker 1: new and emerging from research that suggests not only is

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Speaker 1: there fight flight or phreeze, but also something called fawning

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Speaker 1: or extreme people pleasing in order to get the people

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Speaker 1: they fear to admire them, basically mirroring imagined expectations and

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Speaker 1: desires of others in order to fill secure Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: it was first coined in the Pete Walker book Complex

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Speaker 1: PTSD from Surviving to Thriving. It involves of like bleeding

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Speaker 1: emotions out of nowhere to people you don't know very well,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of how I met you. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of how we became close, which is why people we've

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Speaker 1: just met can suddenly become as intimate as a best

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Speaker 1: friend in a single conversation. Was a quote from the article.

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it takes too though, because like

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Speaker 1: I am also nosy, and that trauma response for me

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Speaker 1: is to pull things out slash trauma responses. My social

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Speaker 1: work responses also yeah, and here we are, here we are,

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Speaker 1: and here we are. People pleasing is a part of

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Speaker 1: misogyny and rape culture because we see that in our

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Speaker 1: kind of heteronormative scripts and how women are treated in

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Speaker 1: that it also can contribute to unhealthy body image. There

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Speaker 1: have been some links of people pleasing to disorder eating.

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Speaker 1: Basically you're trying to please people with your body based

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Speaker 1: on very unhealthy and unrealistic standards. There's also been a

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Speaker 1: link to abuse for those who have this fawn response

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Speaker 1: that has been shown, and a lot of articles went

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Speaker 1: out of their way to clarify it's not this isn't

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Speaker 1: intended to be manipulative. Um. Like people pleasing is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be manipulative. It is more of an instinctive

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Speaker 1: or reflective presentation of trauma. Not always trauma, but like

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Speaker 1: usually some kind of like safety or socialized thing or trauma. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's about giving up all personal power in the name

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Speaker 1: of safety. So it's not a lot of times people

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Speaker 1: are like, this isn't a thing. You're just manipulating people.

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Speaker 1: That's not what's going on, right. Um, And yeah, with

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Speaker 1: all of that, if you're looking to curb this, here

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Speaker 1: are some things. Yes, So one of the big ones

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Speaker 1: is mindfulness. Take note of when and why you're doing

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Speaker 1: people pleasing things, how it makes you feel, why you're

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Speaker 1: feeling that way. Um, make a note of how many

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Speaker 1: times you say yes when you want to say no?

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Speaker 1: Oh God, and I felt like you couldn't say no.

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Speaker 1: Recognizing limits and placing boundaries and stalling. That's what I do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: give yourself, give yourself time to make a decision. If

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Speaker 1: you're like me and my mom and you're like yes,

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Speaker 1: stall and they have a lot of like here's a

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Speaker 1: phrase you could use, but I've actually done that. I

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Speaker 1: have like a notepad and all like write down like

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Speaker 1: this is why, which is part of being mindful, like

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Speaker 1: knowing that if something comes up right, you'ren feel great

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Speaker 1: about it. I'm gonna pretend like I didn't see it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean you know that ultimately the answer could

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Speaker 1: still be yes. But giving yourself that time to make decision,

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Speaker 1: like do it because a lot of the times when

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Speaker 1: I think I don't want to do it, then I

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Speaker 1: might want to do it later, Or when I think

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Speaker 1: I want to do it, then I might not want

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Speaker 1: to do it later. So I feel like you need

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Speaker 1: to figure that out. Block out time when no new

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Speaker 1: requests can come in. I feel like that's going to

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Speaker 1: be your strategy. Well you're actually like, okay, these times

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Speaker 1: what you've done, You're like, I'm not doing anything. So

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Speaker 1: I've gotten better about that, and I will say one

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Speaker 1: of the rules I have now, I don't always follow it,

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Speaker 1: but I try not to agree to any plans after

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Speaker 1: like seven PM or what I like my mind, because

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Speaker 1: I've told you I plan when I'm anxious. That's a

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Speaker 1: thing that I do so I can look forward to

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Speaker 1: this thing, this thing, this thing, and then the next

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Speaker 1: day I might be like, why did I do that?

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Speaker 1: And I'm not going to cancel, as you said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not the person who's going to cancel. So I try

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Speaker 1: to like block out for me, like if you are

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Speaker 1: stressing out about your calendar or whatever, you can I

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Speaker 1: sometimes I'll even write the text, but I will not

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Speaker 1: send it until the next morning if I feel it still.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's so annoying for people who get the

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Speaker 1: like dots that she's writing something practice saying no, which

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Speaker 1: also sounds silly but has been helpful for me um

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Speaker 1: getting rid of toxic friends that ignore boundaries. I do

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Speaker 1: think it's worth examining toxic friends, but not even maybe

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Speaker 1: you're just you know, not super close, and you don't

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Speaker 1: have to go out of your way to do everything

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Speaker 1: for them, like right, you can have a more casual relationship.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I think there's but you definitely know

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Speaker 1: those maybe not anymore that would like only come around

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Speaker 1: when they need something. Yeah, that would be a toxic friend. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: and it's not worth it because they don't care. They

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do the same for you exactly. Yes. And then

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Speaker 1: therapy if you need it and have access to it,

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Speaker 1: we always recommend. But yeah, yeah, I'm sure there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a lot more about this because as we said,

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Speaker 1: this is a new area of research. People are looking

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Speaker 1: into it right when it comes to trauma and then

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Speaker 1: trying to undo and open up the causes and then

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Speaker 1: the reasons and then trying to get to the route.

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Speaker 1: You're going to see a lot of these uh not

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Speaker 1: necessarily symptoms the result of Yeah, yeah for sure. And

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Speaker 1: like I said, I was reading it, I was like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: we get those sometimes on this show. That's usually mine.

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Speaker 1: They are they are, But I had some friends that

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Speaker 1: were like, I think you should look into this. Listening well, listeners,

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Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts about this, any resources for us.

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Speaker 1: We would love to get them if you can email

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Speaker 1: us a stuffing email stuff at ihart media dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter and mos a podcast

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Speaker 1: or Instagram and stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as

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Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks

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Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff Owner Told You. Protection by

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcast for my heart Radio, you

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Speaker 1: can check out the Heart Radio, a Apple podcast, or

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Speaker 1: ever you listen to favorite ships