Speaker 1: You don't know what it is, but it's there, like
Speaker 1: a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is
Speaker 1: this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2: He's talking about spoilers. Warning this podcast could tase a
Speaker 2: multiverse of spoilers about the shows What If on Disney
Speaker 2: Plus FX, is Why the Last Man, and just general
Speaker 2: geek outs over the new Matrix resurrections and Hawkeye trailers.
Speaker 2: I think I randomly spoil some stuff from the Hawkeye
Speaker 2: comic by Matt Fraction and David Daya. Just be warned
Speaker 2: there are spoilers inside here. Hello and welcome to episode
Speaker 2: three of x ray Vision and the Crooked Podcast, where
Speaker 2: we delve into the nooks and crannies or your favorite shows,
Speaker 2: favorite movies, comics, and pop culture. On today's episode, so
Speaker 2: much news has broken in the last week, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna cover it all, from the recently released Matrix resurrections
Speaker 2: and Hawkeye trailers to the premiere of Why the Last
Speaker 2: Man on FX. Then on x ray Vision Multiverse, we
Speaker 2: post our own alternate timeline and discussion of the first
Speaker 2: five episodes of the Disney Plus show What If and
Speaker 2: it's comic origins, and finally, special treat for y'all. X
Speaker 2: Ray Vision is pleased to offer an interview with Shang
Speaker 2: Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings star Simu Liu.
Speaker 2: But first let me introduce this week's co host. You
Speaker 2: can find her scholarly writings on matters large and small
Speaker 2: in the worlds of film and comics and entertainment of
Speaker 2: places like IGN, Nerdist and Esquire. Please welcome back, Rosie night, Rosie.
Speaker 2: How are you.
Speaker 3: I'm so good. I'm so happy to be here. How
Speaker 3: are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing good. It's been a crazy it's been a
Speaker 2: crazy week, yeah, all around, but a crazy week for
Speaker 2: comic news. I can't man, I can't wait to talk
Speaker 2: about it. We were already laughing about it. Let's just
Speaker 2: get let's just get to the news quickly. First, the
Speaker 2: Matrix Resurrections trailer has dropped. At first, they were initially
Speaker 2: these little video offerings on the Matrix website that were
Speaker 2: you could access through a bunch of hoops that you
Speaker 2: could jump through. But now the trailer has dropped. The film,
Speaker 2: director by Lanowichowski, hits theaters December twenty second, twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: It will be streaming for a month on HBO Max.
Speaker 2: The trailer brings back your second or third favorite chosen one,
Speaker 2: depending on the franchise you get. Neo Trinity is back,
Speaker 2: yeah yah. Abdul Matin takes over as Morpheus for Laurence Fishburne,
Speaker 2: who just doesn't want to do it anymore, and Neil
Speaker 2: Patrick Harris plays a therapist with some very questionable motives.
Speaker 2: I'm excited for this. I loved the first two Matrix movies,
Speaker 2: the second, the third one was like fine, but let
Speaker 2: me so, did you what was your Did you have
Speaker 2: any connection to the Matrix movies?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I love the Matrix. When I was growing up,
Speaker 3: I was actually really into like Kung Fu and Hong
Speaker 3: Kong cinemar and stuff. So when I saw The Matrix
Speaker 3: I thought I was really cool because I understood what work.
Speaker 3: I was a kid when it came out. I watched
Speaker 3: it on VHS at my dad's house in Hackney, and
Speaker 3: I just remember thinking it was so cool and scary.
Speaker 3: I love the techno thriller of it all. Like as
Speaker 3: I've grown up, I really love knowing like Jeff Darrow,
Speaker 3: who's this rad cartoonist. He was really involved with doing
Speaker 3: the character designs like that it meilds a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff that I love, like anime influences, Kung Fu, John Woo,
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I was very
Speaker 3: very I thought the Trainer was really cool. I really
Speaker 3: like how they kind of embraced the things that Keanu
Speaker 3: does now, like it feels more John Wiki, it's a
Speaker 3: little bit less Snowy. It's it's this guy who's stuck
Speaker 3: in this world that he kind of doesn't really fit into,
Speaker 3: and he's gonna go on this mission to the past.
Speaker 3: So I like those echoes fit. And I thought that
Speaker 3: the action that they teased looked really good, so I
Speaker 3: thought it was cool.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: I thought that Trinity was dead, but like that's I'm
Speaker 2: excited to see how we bring her back. So the
Speaker 2: original Maje I had. I missed it in the theaters
Speaker 2: because people forget this now, but I think at the
Speaker 2: time it had one of the more confusing like promo
Speaker 2: marketing pushes that I've ever Like I couldn't figure out
Speaker 2: what the movie was about from the commercial, but then
Speaker 2: everybody was like, oh my god, the Matrix, it's Star Wars,
Speaker 2: It's Star Wars for this generation. I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: I got it. So I skateboarded to Blockbuster and I
Speaker 2: rented the movie and I rented a VHS player because
Speaker 2: I didn't have anything to play on, so I had
Speaker 2: to rent. You could rent VCRs from Blockbuster at the time.
Speaker 2: It came in like this huge, like carrying case, and
Speaker 2: I rode with all that stuff back on my on
Speaker 2: my skateboard and then I watched the movie. I was like,
Speaker 2: this is dope. It's funny that you mentioned that Hong
Speaker 2: Kong influences. I had my nerd friend at that time,
Speaker 2: this guy Keith that was my comic book Hong Kong
Speaker 2: movie'es nerd stuff friend, and he was like, ah, man,
Speaker 2: it's not it's not authentic enough, like you and woping
Speaker 2: it's He did obviously like if you have him choreographing,
Speaker 2: it's awesome, but like, I'm not sold on on Kia
Speaker 2: like he was his It's this was like the nerd
Speaker 2: conversation that I would have with him was like, it's
Speaker 2: not it's not Hong Kong authentic enough, which was really funny. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I'm excited for this. I think it makes sense to
Speaker 2: bring back the Matrix and I again, like I think
Speaker 2: you're right, like the aesthetics, the vibe. It's almost like
Speaker 2: a lot of people on social media were like getting
Speaker 2: at me, like have they merged? Like are the john
Speaker 2: Wick Matrix universes? Like are they overlapping?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like, I mean the truth is, if
Speaker 3: john Wick hadn't have been such a massive success, you
Speaker 3: probably wouldn't be getting this movie. So it is like
Speaker 3: at least not in this version with Keanu. So I
Speaker 3: feel like that makes sense to kind of embrace those things.
Speaker 3: Where does it fit in the time? Who knows?
Speaker 2: Like, who knows.
Speaker 3: I know. It was so funny when people were like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, because Lawrence Fishbrown said like he wasn't invited
Speaker 3: to be in the movie. And then you have Yaya,
Speaker 3: who I do love and any movie that puts Ya
Speaker 3: in the suit. I love that. I love black Mans.
Speaker 3: I loved him in Acman. I just say a candy man.
Speaker 3: He's great. But also like, I don't know if he's
Speaker 3: gonna be Morpheus because like here's some fun, ridiculous thing
Speaker 3: that's definitely not Cannon. But when they launched the Matrix
Speaker 3: online game.
Speaker 2: Right, he died, He died he dies, he killed They
Speaker 2: kill him with some nanoparticle bullet too, that like one hundred,
Speaker 2: like he is dead, dead deck And it was meant to.
Speaker 3: Be like this huge event, but then you know, the
Speaker 3: game folded or whatever. But I I was when when
Speaker 3: I saw this younger iteration and this kind of idea.
Speaker 3: I guess you could have multiple versions of the character
Speaker 3: because of the way the matrix works, But I did
Speaker 3: think that would be really funny if they bought in
Speaker 3: this canon that like that version of Morpheus.
Speaker 2: Had died, right, Yeah, they just like have like a
Speaker 2: cash yeah, version of the younger Morpheus or something. Lanawakowski
Speaker 2: said at the Berlin International Literature Festival of Keanu's reaction
Speaker 2: to the film. Quote, casual brilliance just kind of rolls
Speaker 2: off piano and he was just sitting there and he goes,
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, you told a story in which you
Speaker 2: described the coming twenty years and the problems of the
Speaker 2: nature of digital virtual life and how it is going
Speaker 2: to impact this and how we think about it, and
Speaker 2: gave us a frame to be able to think about
Speaker 2: it and talk about it. And you took the same
Speaker 2: character of the same stories and the same stuff and
Speaker 2: somehow you made it about the next twenty years, so
Speaker 2: that's exciting, I will say, you know, like I hope
Speaker 2: it explores the central paradox of the Matrix to me,
Speaker 2: which is that the heroes of this story want to
Speaker 2: destroy it necessarily want to destroy the Matrix and free humanity.
Speaker 2: But what makes the story cool is the Matrix. Like,
Speaker 2: like what made the second and mostly the third film
Speaker 2: is really not that cool, was like all this shit
Speaker 2: happening in the real world, Like, I want the Matrix,
Speaker 2: so that will be interesting. I'm excited.
Speaker 3: Next lots of like the big Marvel DC video game
Speaker 3: news for nerds and for people like us, basically because
Speaker 3: we had Spider Man two, which people didn't know was coming,
Speaker 3: and after Mars Morales I think is probably the most
Speaker 3: anticipated game now. It was absolutely Miles Morales somehow managed
Speaker 3: to step up that first Spider Man game, which playing
Speaker 3: that was like a revelation to me. I could never
Speaker 3: naturally that you would be able to actually swing through
Speaker 3: this guys. And then I love the adaptations they made
Speaker 3: for Miles, moving it away from the police and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, making it moving.
Speaker 2: It away for the police was great, Moving it away
Speaker 2: for the great.
Speaker 3: And like that's gonna be PS five only, which is
Speaker 3: bad for me because I have a PS five. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna have to get it because there's more than one
Speaker 3: game I want now. Venom, that's the other big thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Venom in the game, super super exciting. Insomniac the
Speaker 2: developer is like hard carrying PlayStation exclusive right now, so
Speaker 2: that is super exciting. I hope somehow they make Venom playable,
Speaker 2: be that as it may, as the big bad as
Speaker 2: the big boss of that game should be really fun.
Speaker 2: I'm really excited, and I think.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be like Peter Miles teaming up. And they
Speaker 3: did say they're only gonna have it's not gonna have
Speaker 3: like a co op mode, which I think a lot
Speaker 3: of people want it. But yeah, you know, I understand
Speaker 3: that because the quality of the gameplay that they're getting
Speaker 3: as a single play is like so unreal that I
Speaker 3: understand why they can't necessarily compromise that. Also, they came
Speaker 3: out really strong because they were like, by the way,
Speaker 3: we've got this surprise Spider Man two game like sequel
Speaker 3: to probably the most famous Superher game of all time,
Speaker 3: but also Wolverine, and every nineties kid was like, oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is the game that I've been
Speaker 2: waiting for since ye no question, since, like you know,
Speaker 2: the X Men Arcade game. I played it all the time.
Speaker 2: Super fun. You know, this is Insomniac doing. This is
Speaker 2: everything I've ever wanted. I have some questions about, like
Speaker 2: I guess it's gonna be like a lot of robots
Speaker 2: or something because I can't see like decapitations being being
Speaker 2: in a you know, rated whatever for everyone game for everyone.
Speaker 2: But uh, I'm excited. Nonetheless, this is gonna be super fun.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is literally what I've been waiting for, and
Speaker 2: it's my entire life.
Speaker 3: It's got a really cool team, like Evan Narcis is
Speaker 3: going to be a writer on it, Mars Morales and
Speaker 3: I think one of the other main writers from Mars
Speaker 3: Morles is on it. And I thought they did. The
Speaker 3: tease was so good, Like if you haven't seen it,
Speaker 3: it's basically just Wolverine in a bar. The graphics look unreal.
Speaker 3: You're getting real uncanny badly vibes. You've got to see
Speaker 3: his arm hairs and everything, and then he just somebody
Speaker 3: tries to start a fight and his little clause come out.
Speaker 3: Huts every time. Yeah, he's ready. I want to. I'm
Speaker 3: so excited about the fighting, like fighting mechanisms on games,
Speaker 3: like really starting for me with Arkham Asylum, but going
Speaker 3: to Spider Man and Males Morles. Yeah, so intuitive, and
Speaker 3: that's going to be so good with Wolverine, like all
Speaker 3: the moves. But like you said, who's he going to
Speaker 3: be killing? Because I can't imagine that they're going to
Speaker 3: make this a gtaesque like blood and Gore killing people
Speaker 3: kind of game.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Arkham, that mechanic, the kind of very simple but
Speaker 2: very addictive attack counter dodge mechanic that made it a
Speaker 2: kind of like a beat matching game in a certain way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the Shadows and ward Or games also use this
Speaker 2: kind of mechanic. It just is so addictive and it's
Speaker 2: the same in the Miles Morales Spider Man and the
Speaker 2: Spider Man games, like it's a very similar kind of mechanic.
Speaker 2: So if they can figure out the right kind of
Speaker 2: fighting mechanic for Wolverine, yeah, that will be amazing. Like
Speaker 2: I literally can't wait. I used to I would play
Speaker 2: hours of Arkham Asylum, just like the Beat Him Up
Speaker 2: where you fight fifty guys like modes because it's just
Speaker 2: super super I'm really also, like.
Speaker 3: I know, I don't want to, there's so much more
Speaker 3: stuff to cover. But like when you think about the
Speaker 3: Spider Man games, right, both of them, the amount of
Speaker 3: characters they managed to include in those games is so cool.
Speaker 3: So when you think about Wolverine and you just think
Speaker 3: about who you might see in it and the different
Speaker 3: characters you might get to players or play against, that
Speaker 3: is just I'm sure it's gonna be Logan esque stripped down,
Speaker 3: like not too many, but they are gonna put some
Speaker 3: deep cut X Men characters in there, definitely.
Speaker 2: I mean, we have to see we have to see
Speaker 2: Solar Samurai and has to be in there. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it will be weird if Sabertooth is not in there,
Speaker 2: and in some yeah, in some way, I feel like.
Speaker 3: He has to be in there because like it's they're
Speaker 3: going for that whole Western kind of vibe, so the
Speaker 3: brotherly drama it always fits in, you know. And I
Speaker 3: also think whatever is going on with the MCU now,
Speaker 3: Marvel and everyone is very aware that for a lot
Speaker 3: of people, those X Men movies are the formative versions
Speaker 3: of the X Men, Like especially if you weren't really
Speaker 3: around for the ninety four cartoon, you know, the X
Speaker 3: Men Night two stuff, so like, yeah, it's it's very interesting.
Speaker 3: I cannot wait for it. And then it's like basically
Speaker 3: anyone our age was getting blessed because then they were
Speaker 3: also like, yeah, where Star Wars dot Com was like, oh,
Speaker 3: we're gonna make a Night of Republic remake the game
Speaker 3: that everyone had been asking for for like a million years.
Speaker 2: So the only not the only reason, but the primary
Speaker 2: reason that I have an Xbox is to play the
Speaker 2: Kotor backwards compatible, which I was in the midst of
Speaker 2: doing when this news came out. And good, finally, like
Speaker 2: I like, that's all I have to say is finally,
Speaker 2: I can't wait, Like just reskin the game and leave
Speaker 2: it as is. It's perfect, Like the only thing that's
Speaker 2: missing is updated graphics, and if they do that, like
Speaker 2: I can't I cannot wait. Yeah, I mean the statement
Speaker 2: on Star Wars dot Com reads announced the PlayStation showcase
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one Star Wars Nights of the Old Republic remake.
Speaker 2: We'll see the classic RPG return as a play station
Speaker 2: five console exclusive. Sorry Xbox I launched in four PC
Speaker 2: Asper the Texas based studio that has collaborated with Lucasfilm
Speaker 2: in various projects for over a decade, including a recent
Speaker 2: spate of well received re releases from Lucas Arts. Era
Speaker 2: is handling development rebuilding the game from the ground up.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it seemed like it seemed like this was
Speaker 3: coming ever since they started doing like Jenna Knights stuff
Speaker 3: like that. So yeah, but when will they remake Masters
Speaker 3: of Tarakazi. That's the real question. That's what the reals dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but Warner Bros. Obviously they want to be like, you know,
Speaker 3: left out. I was hoping to see something from Gotham
Speaker 3: Knights because I loved the looks of that game. Didn't
Speaker 3: get that. But one of their biggest releases in comics
Speaker 3: and video games, I mean it started as video game Injustice.
Speaker 3: They were giving like they released the first trailer for
Speaker 3: the movie, which is based on the comics also which
Speaker 3: came out of the video game. And so this is
Speaker 3: what the announcement said, which was on screen. Rap was
Speaker 3: based on Tom Taylor's graphic novel in Justice. God's among
Speaker 3: last year one itself based on nether Realm Studios twenty
Speaker 3: thirteen game in Justice God's among us. The film depicts
Speaker 3: Superman going on a rampage off death of Lewis Lane
Speaker 3: and the Umble Child and hands of the Joker that
Speaker 3: I have to say, I actually think Tom Taylor's the
Speaker 3: comic book writer he I think his biggest secret skill
Speaker 3: is taking something like this like deceased that should be
Speaker 3: a tie in forgettable thing, and making it some deep story.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I was like, this can't be good. Mm hmm, one
Speaker 2: hundred percent, like, oh, they're doing a comic version of Injustice.
Speaker 2: It can't be good. No, uh, it's good.
Speaker 3: It's good, and not just that it became like a
Speaker 3: huge smash it. I personally will say, I do not believe.
Speaker 3: This is one of my deepest beliefs and my problem
Speaker 3: with I actually love Injustice because I love mortal combat,
Speaker 3: and I love like mortal combat but with superheroes. But
Speaker 3: I do not believe on a base level that Superman
Speaker 3: would go on a rampage if Lewis and his kid died.
Speaker 3: Superman is about love, He's about forgiveness, He's about hope.
Speaker 3: I don't buy it. I don't buy it here. I
Speaker 3: don't buy Injustice, Like, but the movie does it really good?
Speaker 3: And the cost is stab act and I think people
Speaker 3: are probably gonna love it because DC Animation is really rad.
Speaker 2: Yes, is really rad and has been hard carrying Warner
Speaker 2: Brothers DC content honestly for a long time. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: agree with you. You know, read All Star Superman like
Speaker 2: it's I don't Superman is and is a hero is
Speaker 2: the hero like there is just and DC in its
Speaker 2: video properties has kind of not been able to find
Speaker 2: that tone of Superman. But I'm still excited for this.
Speaker 2: I'm still excited.
Speaker 3: Yah, it's gonna be cool and bass and that that's
Speaker 3: the stuff that they've been doing that's more adult, the
Speaker 3: more combat movies. They've been doing a super fun, super
Speaker 3: violent super out there, So I think that they'll bring
Speaker 3: that to Injustice and I think it will be really cool.
Speaker 2: Next, so Marvel was releasing this one shot called Timeless
Speaker 2: that was going to introduce a It's basically going to
Speaker 2: introduce an audience to Kang as they're setting up Kang
Speaker 2: is a big bad for Phase four in the MCU,
Speaker 2: A good idea. The artist on this was Joe Bennett,
Speaker 2: whose work on with valuing on the Immortal Hulk has
Speaker 2: been some of the most exciting, weird and like body
Speaker 2: horror creative art currently available at Big two Comics look
Speaker 2: super super great. Unfortunately, Joe Bennett has been removed from
Speaker 2: that from Timeless because we have learned now that Joe
Speaker 2: Bennett is a fascist. Joe Bennett, Joe Bennett. Why why
Speaker 2: Joe Bennett. So, Joe Bennett had slipped a anti Semitic reference
Speaker 2: into Immortal Hulk in the pass Andy you kind of
Speaker 2: like explained it off.
Speaker 3: It was pretty explicit, though, it.
Speaker 2: Was pretty explosive. So so the images is a banner
Speaker 2: at a at a jewelry store and in the background
Speaker 2: there is a glass window and there's writing on the
Speaker 2: glass window and it says instead of jewelry, jewelry.
Speaker 3: And I think that was even a star of David maybe.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it was. And then later Joe, more recently,
Speaker 2: Joe released some pro Bolsonnaro, the president of Brazil, the
Speaker 2: fascist president of Brazil, released some pro Bolsonaro art on
Speaker 2: social media that showed Bolscenaro killing people with a sword and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the people he was killing were like anti
Speaker 3: Semitic caricatures.
Speaker 2: It was, Yes, it was a lot of big noses
Speaker 2: the whole thing.
Speaker 3: And I think the worst thing about this, which is
Speaker 3: isn't this the way with the internet. It was actually
Speaker 3: from like twenty seventeen, but it was like we only
Speaker 3: found out about it now because somebody shared it, and
Speaker 3: so I think at this point people were just like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, this is not because obviously he explained away,
Speaker 3: Oh it was a misspelling. Did it this? You can't
Speaker 3: really explain it away. You are putting you can't You're
Speaker 3: putting your propaganda art on the side of fascism, and
Speaker 3: the art is fascistic.
Speaker 2: It's really really bad. Aluing took to Twitter on September
Speaker 2: second to basically apologize. He said, Immortal Hulk has done
Speaker 2: but I won't be working with Joe again. If people
Speaker 2: choose not to pick up my work with other artists
Speaker 2: in the future on the basis of my handling of this,
Speaker 2: I understand and except that if I've lost your trust,
Speaker 2: that's on me. Basically, Amya Kalpa for not standing up
Speaker 2: to this sooner and more authoritatively. But I think al,
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody blames al for this. That said,
Speaker 2: it sucks in the sense that Immortal Hulk really is amazing,
Speaker 2: Like I don't it's a hard the tagline for Mortal Hulk,
Speaker 2: which is Hulk is now help can't be killed. He
Speaker 2: has reverted back to his original mode of turning into
Speaker 2: the Hulk, which is it happens at night. It's existential
Speaker 2: and gary, and it explodes.
Speaker 3: Like every aspect of Hulk and what it means to
Speaker 3: be Hulk.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, the multiple personalities, the origins of the of
Speaker 2: the gamma radiation, how the gamma ration radiation affected Bruce,
Speaker 2: Bruce's own psyche in a way that builds on the
Speaker 2: kind of like earlier work, uh, the kind of like
Speaker 2: earlier developments of Hulk and Banner as like these multiple
Speaker 2: versions of of Banner. It's really really cool. But yeah,
Speaker 2: Joe Bennett has done now the replacement four times is
Speaker 2: one Greg Land. So Greg Land is he's he has
Speaker 2: has done a lot. He worked on X Men, He's
Speaker 2: worked on a lot of comics, particularly from Marvel over
Speaker 2: the years. Greg Land is divisive, not divisive in a
Speaker 2: in a kind of like problematic, certainly not in the
Speaker 2: sense of Joe Bennett, but divisive in the sense that
Speaker 2: so he got this gig because they need clearly Marvel
Speaker 2: needs to hit a deadline. This this comic has been announced,
Speaker 2: it needs to come out, it needs to set up king,
Speaker 2: and it needs to happen on time. And one, he's
Speaker 2: very reliable. And and the reason that Greg Land is
Speaker 2: very reliable, and the reason that he's divisive is that
Speaker 2: he is known and he's kind of infamous for using
Speaker 2: basically for for using guideline images that he then bases
Speaker 2: his comic panels on, uh I E. Tracing and listen,
Speaker 2: every artist does this to some express, Every artist working does.
Speaker 3: Different ways. People. No one's saying that like Simonson and
Speaker 3: Adams in the all days on a bit of paper.
Speaker 3: Let's be real, where does where does Greg Lamb trace from? Jason?
Speaker 2: Greg Land very often traces from erotic adult slash pornographic images.
Speaker 2: Is he has been he has been caught doing this
Speaker 2: numerous times. He's toned it down. Let's be clear about this.
Speaker 2: He has toned it down. But he's kind of infamous
Speaker 2: for this, and and as such he has gained a
Speaker 2: reputation much like Robley Field for being this kind of
Speaker 2: like we hate him, but also we get it, Like
Speaker 2: it's just very funny to replace.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really funny, funny, and it's like it's so
Speaker 3: marvel right now that I was just like, yeah, of course, like,
Speaker 3: of course that's what's gonna happen. But it is funny though,
Speaker 3: especially because like I'm a fan, Like I love a
Speaker 3: lot of like sexy comics. I have cheesecakess I like
Speaker 3: I have I have like actual like legitimate like X
Speaker 3: rated comics. I like I love Gilbert Hernandez. I love
Speaker 3: all different kinds of stuff. But but like it is
Speaker 3: really funny to see like an you know, it's Jean Gray,
Speaker 3: but she's like traced from like a sexy porn star
Speaker 3: and she and You're just like, what's going on? What
Speaker 3: is going on? Yeah, Now, like the tracing issue has
Speaker 3: become as the Internet has moved forward as well, Like
Speaker 3: the tracing issue has definitely become like more prominent, like
Speaker 3: people because it's easier to catch.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's way easier to catch and and again,
Speaker 2: every artist does this, but Greg's influences and the way
Speaker 2: he uses these images is just kind of like a
Speaker 2: degree more blatant than the way other artists use it.
Speaker 2: Like it's artists, critics and other artists over the years
Speaker 2: have quite easily found the original art that Greg is
Speaker 2: basing his stuff off of He's been accused of plagiarizing
Speaker 2: in the past by other artists like and that's.
Speaker 3: The bigger issue is like, you know what, if you
Speaker 3: want to poorn, trace and move, was gonna pay you,
Speaker 3: like eight hundred dollars or whatever, like good for you,
Speaker 3: like good for you whatever, likes other artists. I wish
Speaker 3: they would have put on this book by so many
Speaker 3: incredible arys that I wish would get a regular Marvel
Speaker 3: book or a one show Marvel book. But you know what,
Speaker 3: But the issue is, like you said, if if you
Speaker 3: were plagiarizing like another artists work and then getting paid
Speaker 3: for it, that is fucked up like that, And that's
Speaker 3: that's why the issue looks.
Speaker 2: That's why he was called out. He was called out
Speaker 2: by Tristan Jones in twenty twenty for basically ripping off
Speaker 2: art from the Aliens Omnibus. So this is around, this
Speaker 2: is like this has been around at Marvel is not dumb.
Speaker 2: They understand what Greg is doing. But again, like one
Speaker 2: of the things that derailed Marvel in the nineties and
Speaker 2: was a big problem for basically its entire lifespan from
Speaker 2: the seventies up to the nineties was blown deadlines like
Speaker 2: this was this was a company that was consistently like
Speaker 2: late on delivering comics to printers and you know this
Speaker 2: is later but famously like Ultimate Wolverine Versus Hulk was
Speaker 2: delayed like five hundred years or something. It was like
Speaker 2: a six it was a six issue limited series that
Speaker 2: like stretched out over four years something like that, And
Speaker 2: it's like.
Speaker 3: It's the problem is like it's a bigger It's like
Speaker 3: it is you do have to find these artists who
Speaker 3: can get you the stuff fast, right, which but it's
Speaker 3: also a bigger problem of like that exploit of industry
Speaker 3: where people don't have protections, they don't have real deadline,
Speaker 3: so you can a letter is getting the book two
Speaker 3: days before it's meant to go to print because the
Speaker 3: writer didn't know, and then the artist is So it's
Speaker 3: like a comics is like a fake business. That's what
Speaker 3: me and my friends always say, Like loads of us
Speaker 3: make comics, and we always say it's like it's a
Speaker 3: fake business, Like you wouldn't believe that this stuff could happen,
Speaker 3: but it does. Like I'm sure there's people sitting here
Speaker 3: right now who are like this guy does not trace
Speaker 3: for important you know what he does.
Speaker 2: I mean, like you just go go Greg Land trace
Speaker 2: on Google and you'll find any number of our you'll find.
Speaker 3: It's it's funny because Marvel actually has like a long
Speaker 3: tradition of a famous older artists or like I guess
Speaker 3: not old, but like male artists of a certain age
Speaker 3: who loved to trace. I I always remember that Invincible.
Speaker 3: I think it was like an invincible Iron Man book
Speaker 3: where doctor Doom and the whole book is just it's
Speaker 3: just mincing Cassel. And then that's I think, there's yeah,
Speaker 3: and then there's like and I can't remember who there
Speaker 3: are character is, but one of them is Tommy Lee Jones,
Speaker 3: and you're just like, my guy, I don't think you
Speaker 3: can do this, you know. And I think the only
Speaker 3: person who actually ever properly leveraged that was Sam Jackson,
Speaker 3: because these people just called Marvel straight away as soon
Speaker 3: as that oh that's Nick Fiory book came.
Speaker 2: Out and they were like, hey, yeah, Brian Hitch, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think Mark Millery, please do it.
Speaker 3: Please do so. Yeah. It's it's an interesting jump, but
Speaker 3: it's not all bad news in the world of Marvel.
Speaker 3: It's not all weird sad Tracing. There's a new book
Speaker 3: coming out. We think when we were talking, we think
Speaker 3: it's going to be a pretty big deal and is
Speaker 3: seeding big stuff. So it's Jason Aaron and Aaron Couter
Speaker 3: doing Aveng just forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jason Aaron is kind of like the writer right
Speaker 2: now at Marvel. Yeah, and Aaron Couter is We were
Speaker 2: discussing this in the pre pro. I love his style.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like he's like it's he's like a
Speaker 2: child of Art Adams, who is my favorite. Like when
Speaker 2: I first got into comics. There's something like cartoonys but
Speaker 2: also very very detailed about it. Super super fun and
Speaker 2: like the cover art, go go google it now is
Speaker 2: so fun and exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like where's Waldo? For people who love Marvel,
Speaker 3: like you can just and it doesn't matter. What I
Speaker 3: love the most about this cover is literally if you
Speaker 3: did not care about Marvel at all, but you just
Speaker 3: watched What If and for some reason that was what
Speaker 3: drew you in. You love animation, you can look at
Speaker 3: that cover and there is Captain Carter And if you
Speaker 3: just love one division, you can look at it and
Speaker 3: there's Monica Rambo. But there's also, you know there's Tony
Speaker 3: Stuff a man. There's there's a who did you see
Speaker 3: on the speedball? There's beasts. You know, there's all different
Speaker 3: kinds of just bonkers characters. You've got wonder, You've got
Speaker 3: your main but it is unreal. Aaron Kuda's art is
Speaker 3: like this beautiful like you said, it's like this intricate
Speaker 3: cartooning that it has so much personality, that every character
Speaker 3: has a different facial expression, and there's so many characters
Speaker 3: and so Marvel dot Com like if you're interested in it.
Speaker 3: Basically it sounds very multiversally relevant right now. And it
Speaker 3: begins with a quest for cosmic vengeance. Ghost Rider, I
Speaker 3: believe it's Robby Rays. Ghostwrider finds himself roaring through the
Speaker 3: wasteland on a ruined Earth where the Great Age of
Speaker 3: Heroes never came to be, where hope is a four
Speaker 3: letter word and wears only ally in the coming battle
Speaker 3: against the greatest villains any universe has ever seen. Is
Speaker 3: the world's most wanted archaeologist, Tony Stark, the Invincible a man.
Speaker 3: I love Tony Stark as a man. It makes so
Speaker 3: much sense.
Speaker 2: It makes so much sense, and against anytime I see Speedball.
Speaker 2: The New Universe for those who remember, the New Universe
Speaker 2: was an attempt. It was basically like an attempt to
Speaker 2: do Ultimate Marvel before Ultimate Marvel launched. This kind of
Speaker 2: like new generation of Heroes and this and Speedball was
Speaker 2: kind of like the flagship hero. He bounces around like
Speaker 2: a speedball, and anytime I see him in something, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm glad they're keeping up with this guy. I'm glad
Speaker 2: that he's still around. It's gonna be super super fun.
Speaker 2: And it's a titled Avengers Forever, which is a direct
Speaker 2: reference to the very well regarded Kurt bussiek Roger Stern
Speaker 2: late nineties twelve issue limited series that is, you know
Speaker 2: a lot of the Kang stuff if you want to
Speaker 2: understand Loki and the introduction of Kang, Avengers Forever is
Speaker 2: a great place to do it because I think it's
Speaker 2: like issue eleven or maybe twelve. Kang basically is like, Okay,
Speaker 2: here's the deal with me, and he lays the whole
Speaker 2: thing out. So it's like, if you want to understand Kang,
Speaker 2: check out the late nineties Avengers Forever. I'm trying to think,
Speaker 2: but like, maybe the best thing going at Marvel during
Speaker 2: that late nineties like collapse era.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of the it's really interesting to look
Speaker 3: back in that era and the stuff where we know,
Speaker 3: like when the boys went to you know, Found Image
Speaker 3: and everything and kind of the way the boom and
Speaker 3: the bust was happening. Yeah, it's really interesting the cool
Speaker 3: stuff that snuck through, the cool weird ideas that and
Speaker 3: a lot of these creators they say that, you know,
Speaker 3: the eighties the nineties, they didn't know these were going
Speaker 3: to become multi billion dollar properties. Like you were just
Speaker 3: making an idea that would make someone want to pick
Speaker 3: up the next issue, and in that way, some of
Speaker 3: this stuff becomes really really cool and unexpected.
Speaker 2: I agree like that. The kind of like post bankruptcy
Speaker 2: era Marvel, I think is some of the most creative
Speaker 2: stuff happened there, whether it's Black Panther and Marvel Knights
Speaker 2: or or Avengers Forever or like Exstatics X Force Ecstatics,
Speaker 2: Like there's just a lot of fun stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Joke Asarda like had this space where it was
Speaker 3: kind of like you could bringing in like these really
Speaker 3: cool cartoonists that he knew and making work that maybe
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been able to be made in the Robliefeld
Speaker 3: like era, you know, and you got really weird stuff
Speaker 3: out at Frankincastle, you know, punish your guy. I love
Speaker 3: Marvel Knights. Obviously, Marvel Knight's so bloody cool, and I
Speaker 3: think that stuff's going to become like really really intrinsic
Speaker 3: to what's.
Speaker 2: Going I think the Yeah, the moon I would expect that.
Speaker 2: Obviously there's been various incarnations of Moonlight, but I would
Speaker 2: expect that what we see from Moonnight is adapted from
Speaker 2: the Marvel Knights stuff. That's my expecting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that. I think it's going to be
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be the major source point.
Speaker 3: And I also think they're going to have to do
Speaker 3: not necessarily like a Watchman level reconsideration, but they're definitely
Speaker 3: going to have to be very thoughtful about the things
Speaker 3: that they're doing and the way that they're taking on
Speaker 3: the character, because there's so much there that can can
Speaker 3: kind of go wrong.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure talk the mental Yeah, the mental health
Speaker 2: aspect of you we'll table that for now, but the
Speaker 2: mental health aspect of Moonnight needs to be handled in
Speaker 2: the right way. And I'm excited to see how they do.
Speaker 3: I think off to one division and the exploration of
Speaker 3: trauma and different kinds and still centering all different kinds
Speaker 3: of stories within that. I think I've got hope that
Speaker 3: they could do a cool version.
Speaker 2: In recent news, we're recording this on a Tuesday. Yesterday,
Speaker 2: the trailer for Hawkeye limited series on Disney Plus, which
Speaker 2: launches on November twenty fourth, dropped on the internet, and man,
Speaker 2: it is a lot of fun, clearly adapted from the
Speaker 2: Matt Fraction and David Daya solo title that really like
Speaker 2: redefined Clint Barton as a character in the Marvel universe.
Speaker 2: If you want to pick up a great, great comic
Speaker 2: that you don't need to know a lot about other
Speaker 2: things that are happening in Marvel Comics, even at the
Speaker 2: time or that came before, pick up Matt Frat and
Speaker 2: David Daya's Hawkeye. It is great and like everything about
Speaker 2: it is fresh and fantastic. It's like there are themes
Speaker 2: of like gentrification and like working class strife, and it
Speaker 2: is incredible. There's a great there's a great dog in it.
Speaker 2: And David's art. I think no one does No one
Speaker 2: does layouts like no one from the art, from the
Speaker 2: way he does his panels, from the cadence of the pages.
Speaker 2: There's an early page in issue to where Clint is
Speaker 2: hanging out with Kate Bishop and their training. They're just
Speaker 2: firing arrows into a dummy and Kate is asking him
Speaker 2: a question, and as Clint is drawing and firing, the
Speaker 2: thing she is asking him gets spread out like letter
Speaker 2: by letters, so that you understand how quick Clint's reactions are,
Speaker 2: how fast he is with the bow. It's so cool,
Speaker 2: And there's a million things like that. I'm really and
Speaker 2: and from the trailer, it seems like a lot of
Speaker 2: that is in there. There's a ton of it.
Speaker 3: It's the only way you can do a Hawkeye show. Look,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. I was kind of mad at
Speaker 3: how good this trailer is because I don't want to
Speaker 3: care about Hawkeye. I'm ready for that. I'm ready for
Speaker 3: that Hawkeye, that man Hawkeye, that Jeremy and Hawkeye. He
Speaker 3: can be gone. I don't. So when I saw this, like,
Speaker 3: I was felt personally attacked because one that comic is amazing.
Speaker 3: Two like it's a Christmas show and I fucking love
Speaker 3: Christmas movies shows whatever, Like I love that shit, it's
Speaker 3: got big die hard energy, but.
Speaker 2: Also like, yes, it's I think the.
Speaker 3: Only way you can legitimately make this show is to
Speaker 3: take from that series, because there is stuff, like you
Speaker 3: just said, right, this is gonna be We get to
Speaker 3: see a lot of cool stuff in these Marvel shows,
Speaker 3: the One Division show, for example, I talk about it
Speaker 3: a lot. I could not believe how much they took
Speaker 3: directly from these real, those really amazing mini series in
Speaker 3: the eighties. Yeah, but this is a I think that
Speaker 3: they're very smart to look at this book and know
Speaker 3: that there is stuff that they are going to basically
Speaker 3: take straight from that. Because let's be real, so straight
Speaker 3: from you got issue eleven, right, which is the Lucky
Speaker 3: the Pizza Dog issue, or the from Lucky's perspective, that
Speaker 3: is going to be an episode, and if it's not
Speaker 3: a whole episode, it will be at least half of
Speaker 3: an episode or a recurring thing. It's an iconic issue.
Speaker 2: You can't not do the iconic Lucky the Pizza Dog again.
Speaker 2: Like pick up this comic, pick up the trades, Go
Speaker 2: to your local comic book shop and pick up the trades.
Speaker 2: It's worth it. The Lucky the Pizza Dog Bottle issue
Speaker 2: is one of the greatest single issues in comics history,
Speaker 2: like ever, ever, ever, ever. It's from the perspective of
Speaker 2: the dog, and that's all I'll say. But the storytelling
Speaker 2: and the way Dovey cracks the code on how to
Speaker 2: tell this story through the perspective of the dog, it's
Speaker 2: unbelievable and it's so good and I agree with you.
Speaker 2: It's just got a yeah, it's gonna be that.
Speaker 3: And Lucky is in the show. We know that they
Speaker 3: released a poster with Lucky on it, like he.
Speaker 2: Had to be in the show. He's not in the
Speaker 2: show that I'm a nobody and something that.
Speaker 3: I think is like really amazing about that book. Right,
Speaker 3: So the book deals with Hawky and deafness, which is
Speaker 3: throughout his that's throughout his storyline, but it's on and
Speaker 3: off again, it depends, and that's never been in the MCU.
Speaker 3: But we know it is going to be in this
Speaker 3: show because we saw him wearing hearing aids. And also
Speaker 3: they cast an actual deaf indigenous actress called a lack
Speaker 3: of Cox to play Echo, who's a deaf Indigenous hero
Speaker 3: and I'm so stoked about that. That's just and the
Speaker 3: thing that I think another thing that I think is
Speaker 3: really cool about this is like, so when the Lucky
Speaker 3: the Pizza Dog episode came out, every issue came out,
Speaker 3: everyone was like, this is really cool, and I think
Speaker 3: there was like a little bit of thing around deaf
Speaker 3: people being like, well, this is the only episode, this
Speaker 3: is the only issue that's like seems to want to
Speaker 3: represent that lack of communication, but it's from the perspective
Speaker 3: of a dog lo and behold. Eight issues later they
Speaker 3: do an issue that is a sign language issue, and
Speaker 3: I just think like, and that issue as well, Issue
Speaker 3: nineteen unbelievable, like one of the coolest issues and one
Speaker 3: of the coolest ways of showcasing like visual storytelling and
Speaker 3: how you can change the communication in that way. So
Speaker 3: I feel like one also, I love I think Hayley
Speaker 3: is like perfect casting as Kate Bishop.
Speaker 2: So really I'm really excited.
Speaker 3: I just think there's a lot of potential for this
Speaker 3: to be like not only really cool, fun die Hard
Speaker 3: esque like Holiday Magic, but also like a kind of
Speaker 3: step towards a death representation that we've never really seen
Speaker 3: in any like rarely any TV shows, let alone Supero.
Speaker 2: Yes, which is just so cool. That is really exciting
Speaker 2: one small aside, So apparently Kate is introduced in this show.
Speaker 2: She comes to Clint's attention because she is wearing the
Speaker 2: rone in costume and she's out there doing stuff. It's
Speaker 2: just so hilarious to me because, like I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: I love Clint and he's been through a love he
Speaker 2: became he became a fucking serial killer. Can we just
Speaker 2: get this sonata?
Speaker 3: He didn't just killed Ton down being in joem Wick three.
Speaker 3: He turned down being in Joe Wick three, playing the
Speaker 3: pole the monde caskis pop to be in the man
Speaker 3: game and to get killed by serial killer. Hold on,
Speaker 3: I will never forgive it. I will never forget. I hate.
Speaker 2: Clint went country to country to country killing, murdering specifically,
Speaker 2: look at what the fuck Clint?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: And then he's just like yeah, like again, it's this
Speaker 2: show is gonna be really fun and it's but it is.
Speaker 2: It is really funny to me how we just like
Speaker 2: moved past Clint's time as a legitimate serial killer with.
Speaker 3: The masma like a Ted Bundy level. This is like
Speaker 3: hundreds of people that he's killing, and like I I
Speaker 3: will never forgive that. I will never forget seeing her
Speaker 3: Yuki Sonata, who's like maybe my favoritectory all time, but
Speaker 3: definitely like up there on the Crton red carpet for
Speaker 3: that movie. And they're like, what did you feel like
Speaker 3: when they asked you said, who says no to a
Speaker 3: Marvel movie? Like it's a Marvel movie. And they killed
Speaker 3: him in like five minutes.
Speaker 2: I'll you saw this at all?
Speaker 3: Clint Clint as if sorry, that's never gonna happen festival
Speaker 3: and like, I, yeah, this is my dream for this show.
Speaker 3: I just want him to just like die in the
Speaker 3: first episode. And then it's just like Kate Bishop and
Speaker 3: a Lacqua Cox.
Speaker 2: I't Bishop, I'm too old for that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't need to see my hope is
Speaker 3: the one thing I thought was at least a bit good.
Speaker 3: If you're not going to deal with that, which they
Speaker 3: are not.
Speaker 2: They're we're never gonna deal with it.
Speaker 3: If you're not gonna do it.
Speaker 2: But Clint killed like five hundred people, but whatever, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a blurb.
Speaker 3: It's fine, But you know what, I kind of like
Speaker 3: that they're making him a ship dad. I'm like, if
Speaker 3: that's all he's going, I don't want to have to
Speaker 3: see him have some redemption whatever. It's like if he's
Speaker 3: just letting down his family and then we don't have
Speaker 3: to see him again after this and it can just
Speaker 3: be Kate in the Young Avengers and a lacquise Echo
Speaker 3: like cool, but I will never forget. I will never
Speaker 3: forget what he did. And then when they bought the
Speaker 3: roan In costume, because I think the rumor was that
Speaker 3: like Echo would at some point take that one. The Kate.
Speaker 2: I was like why.
Speaker 3: I was like, Kate Bishop has iconic costumes contemporary Marvel history,
Speaker 3: Like nobody needs to see that Ronan costume and remember
Speaker 3: what he did? Like is she a serial killer fan girl?
Speaker 4: Like when she said to him, She's like, I'm so
Speaker 4: oh my god, you're climbot.
Speaker 3: And like I remember when they released the description and
Speaker 3: it was like Kate Bishop is like obsessed with Hawkwy,
Speaker 3: I'm out of every Avenger like Pase.
Speaker 2: You know that's never gonna happen. And one more, you know,
Speaker 2: like I don't want to speak ill of the dead
Speaker 2: and criticize the dead, but uh, Natasha did really just
Speaker 2: stand there and not do anything? Nope, Well, Clint murdered
Speaker 2: half a dozen guys.
Speaker 3: Those two they were always off their bad vibes. Now
Speaker 3: she's got fuck he did the wrong thing anyway, Like
Speaker 3: in what world? In what? I don't even rate black widow.
Speaker 3: I don't like him MC, I don't like that. Whole
Speaker 3: thing is just not for me. But I was even
Speaker 3: mad when she sacrificed herself. I was like, for this
Speaker 3: serial killer, you're gonna let you would be better off
Speaker 3: if you care about his family. Let him go off
Speaker 3: the edge, and then he's not gonna kill his family
Speaker 3: because honestly, you don't know that that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 3: Like this guy just killed so many What if his
Speaker 3: daughter smokes some weed one time? Is he gonna kill
Speaker 3: her because she's a criminal like this guy.
Speaker 2: Florence Pugh is confirmed in this, not in the trailer,
Speaker 2: but we're gonna see this. We're gonna see her as Yelena.
Speaker 2: So for those of you who are like, Yelene is
Speaker 2: the better and less murderous Natasha, although we don't know
Speaker 2: the murders that she's carried out, but she's under mind controlling. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's cool, you will be uh. One thing that absolutely
Speaker 2: delighted me was Rogers the musical. Like I tweeted a
Speaker 2: bunch of song names. Let me just quickly pull them
Speaker 2: up from my version of Rogers the Musical. I think
Speaker 2: we opened with just a kid from Brooklyn obviously. Then
Speaker 2: we go the flagpole g Captain Phillips, my shot, Steve's
Speaker 2: not thrown away his shot of super Soldier Serum, star
Speaker 2: Spangled Man with a Plan. We get the reprise of
Speaker 2: Star Spangled Man with a Plan, which is kind of
Speaker 2: like the part where Steve's like, oh, is this all
Speaker 2: there is to this? Heidi, Heidi ho Hydra till the
Speaker 2: end of the line and our dance after all this time,
Speaker 2: the sacrifice play, and then finally you're getting sleepy. I
Speaker 2: could do this all day, and then we get a
Speaker 2: uh till the end of the line reprise at the end.
Speaker 2: That's my That's what I think.
Speaker 3: That up writing on a Marvel TV show, And I
Speaker 3: will forever just be sitting hell of about stuff because
Speaker 3: literally I came up with I was like, that's America's ass.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's the America's ass. America's ass feels
Speaker 2: like so you know how in Greece the Broadway. So
Speaker 2: the end song in Grease the movie I Got You
Speaker 2: that was written, that was written for the movie and
Speaker 2: as a kind of band slash drama kid nerd. I
Speaker 2: played in the bands that backed the plays at school.
Speaker 2: We were all really pissed because you couldn't play the
Speaker 2: song because they didn't include it with the because they
Speaker 2: read it. They wrote it directly for the for the movie.
Speaker 2: So the rights, there's a whole rights issue, and basically
Speaker 2: you can only play the music from the Broadway play.
Speaker 2: I think that that's what happens with Rogers the Musical.
Speaker 2: I think when they adapt Rogers the Musical for the
Speaker 2: film version in the MCU, they will have America's ass
Speaker 2: Like as the end song, the big Like number, but
Speaker 2: it won't be part of of Rogers the music.
Speaker 3: It's a serious, light Broadway musical. Of course, there's emotions
Speaker 3: to be had there.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the next up. The first three episodes of
Speaker 2: Why the Last Man have dropped on the internet. You
Speaker 2: can watch them on Hulu through FX and These are
Speaker 2: adapted from the well regarded and critically acclaimed comics from Vertigo,
Speaker 2: written by Brian Kavon with art by Piagara. I have
Speaker 2: watched the first three episodes. I've watched the first six episodes.
Speaker 2: What do you think Rosie.
Speaker 3: It did not answer my biggest question about this show sure,
Speaker 3: which is should you have made this show? Does this
Speaker 3: show need to exist in twenty twenty one. I don't
Speaker 3: feel like that is what I saw that that would
Speaker 3: be my ye. I feel like it's a very well
Speaker 3: made show.
Speaker 2: But it looks great.
Speaker 3: It looks great, but you know what the truth is
Speaker 3: when I think about Why the Last Man, which obviously
Speaker 3: was like such an iconic book for people like our age,
Speaker 3: people a bit older than us, people a bit younger
Speaker 3: than us, that was like the Vertigo book, that is
Speaker 3: like the When I think about that, even the esthetically
Speaker 3: like I think of like Peers R. And I think
Speaker 3: of like the Colors, and it has that comic book
Speaker 3: feel to me. The biggest immediate issue of Disconnected is
Speaker 3: it just feels like The Walking Dead And I understand
Speaker 3: why you do that because The Walking Dead is so popular,
Speaker 3: but that gritty dark even the setup, the way they
Speaker 3: changed it kind of gives it more of that vibe.
Speaker 3: It's not a show that excited me in the way
Speaker 3: that I hoped it would. But again, I do feel
Speaker 3: like for this show to work now, it has to
Speaker 3: be an almost like Watchmen level reconsideration of what it means,
Speaker 3: what you're really dealing with, rather than just like another
Speaker 3: apocalyptic show. And that, for me is is kind of
Speaker 3: what I got.
Speaker 2: I think that's really well said, because my end shoal
Speaker 2: reaction is this is too much of what is actually
Speaker 2: going on, right, you know, it's about a plague that
Speaker 2: kills every holder of the Y chromosome. All men die,
Speaker 2: all male animals die, like wiped out, and the only
Speaker 2: survivor from the men is this character York and his
Speaker 2: monkey Ampersand and what happens now? What happens to the world,
Speaker 2: How does America carry on? How does the world carry out?
Speaker 2: It was a little and what are the political ramifications
Speaker 2: of that? It felt so present that it felt like, Man,
Speaker 2: if I want to catch this fibe, I'll just watch
Speaker 2: the news. Also, I think one of the things that
Speaker 2: like kind of bumped me in the comics, there's a
Speaker 2: level of emotional sustain that makes sense for that medium.
Speaker 2: What I mean by that is Yorick is confronted with
Speaker 2: this massive death, incredible loss. He might see someone's brain's
Speaker 2: blown out right in front of him, someone dies in
Speaker 2: his arms two panels later, a page later, If that
Speaker 2: if he if that energy seems to have faded away,
Speaker 2: we don't think about that because it's a comic. Uh,
Speaker 2: it makes sense that the characters would have moved on
Speaker 2: in the context of this show. It's hard to escape
Speaker 2: that Yorick is just an asshole.
Speaker 3: Oh, like this sucks.
Speaker 2: He's absolute west it And it's really every time he's
Speaker 2: on the screen, I'm like, this fucking guy. It's like, listen,
Speaker 2: everybody has died and you're like, I need to find
Speaker 2: my girlfriend, and like I'm complaining about shit. It's like, dude,
Speaker 2: you have no responsibilities. Your mom's trying to run the country,
Speaker 2: Like what are you and you're sitting here complaining about
Speaker 2: like like your life and stuff like this is so
Speaker 2: out of touch. And in the comics that kind of
Speaker 2: made sense, and there was like a quippiness and a
Speaker 2: and a breeziness to the horror that to the horror
Speaker 2: of the cond of what was going on in the
Speaker 2: in the world that felt right for a comic book
Speaker 2: and made it and created the kind of tone that
Speaker 2: made it a critically acclaimed book. Taking that directly to
Speaker 2: live action, it's really hard man, And again, this guy
Speaker 2: is uric, just fucking sucks.
Speaker 3: He sucks, And I think that the other thing is, like,
Speaker 3: so something really important to point out right, is like,
Speaker 3: so every like cis man dies, right, but that also
Speaker 3: means that a bunch of trans women die, and there's
Speaker 3: all these different The way that we talk about gender
Speaker 3: and explore gender has changed so much, and in the
Speaker 3: original comics that's like one of its biggest flaws when
Speaker 3: you read it back, is it has it's very sensationalist
Speaker 3: and like tropy around ideas of different gender, different ideas
Speaker 3: of gender and the way that people would be affected
Speaker 3: by this y chromosome. So it's very bio essentialist whatever bullshit.
Speaker 3: But like, I don't feel like there's still something about
Speaker 3: the original version of Euorp that feels kind of like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe it was the era of the time,
Speaker 3: but him being a jerk it kind of fits. You're like,
Speaker 3: he's this unlikable, like he sucks, he's just this average guy.
Speaker 3: But twenty years later, when those guys are like ruling
Speaker 3: the country and every story is still about them, it
Speaker 3: doesn't feel that way. It's like, I don't I understand
Speaker 3: now why they were thinking of casting Barry keone who
Speaker 3: from because he's a creepy, good, weird actor.
Speaker 4: And when I saw that, I was like, Oh, I
Speaker 4: was like, if you're gonna do yorick, but you know,
Speaker 4: Yorick sucks, and like we are left in this position
Speaker 4: where the last CIS guy on earth?
Speaker 3: Is this just the worst dude who's so ungrateful for
Speaker 3: it and you are knowledgeable about it. I was like,
Speaker 3: that's interesting. But instead they cast they recast hunky Yorick,
Speaker 3: and you're meant to care about him, and he sucks.
Speaker 3: He's not even a good escape artist, which doesn't make
Speaker 3: any sense because he's him being an escape artist is
Speaker 3: important to the story going on.
Speaker 2: I agree that would have been really to your earlier
Speaker 2: point about like taking it to a Watchman level where
Speaker 2: you're making a different kind of commentary on the world.
Speaker 2: Now m m, that would have been really interesting, and
Speaker 2: maybe that happens like a kind of subversive take on
Speaker 2: this regular Cis white guy. He's the last one left,
Speaker 2: and he's not up to it. He's not up to
Speaker 2: any of the challenges of the world. He's not up
Speaker 2: to the responsibility. He's trying to shirk it and doesn't
Speaker 2: this suck? Yeah, this is him and this is an
Speaker 2: average guy like this is this is We're surrounded by
Speaker 2: these guys in our current life, and I think that
Speaker 2: that would have been cool and subversive. It's but I
Speaker 2: agree with you, they're not. That's not what they're doing.
Speaker 3: They do or and he they want him to be
Speaker 3: the next Rick Grimes or whatever, and he's just some
Speaker 3: guy like and I will say, the one thing I
Speaker 3: think is really good about the show by a mile
Speaker 3: is Ashley Romans as three five the agent.
Speaker 2: He is great. She needs to be the.
Speaker 3: Protagonist, Like she's the best character in the comics. She's
Speaker 3: the best character in the show. I really didn't like
Speaker 3: what they did with hero who in the comics is
Speaker 3: that's your sister. She is this complex, she's an EMT.
Speaker 3: She struggles with addictions, trying to get her life together.
Speaker 3: In this they randomly made it where she like murdered
Speaker 3: her lover before everyone died, and then they were like,
Speaker 3: and now she's gonna have to live with the guilt,
Speaker 3: And I was like, why, Like one, if she murdered him,
Speaker 3: then what about we just get to see her being
Speaker 3: so stoked that she got away with it because nobody cares.
Speaker 3: I would be interested to see that and two why
Speaker 3: did she have to murder him at all? Like, I
Speaker 3: don't get it. I didn't get it.
Speaker 2: I guess that's the uh setup for her eventually joining
Speaker 2: the Amazons. But like listen, just as a structural thing,
Speaker 2: they released the first three episodes, which to me is
Speaker 2: like a red flag because it says, hey, this should
Speaker 2: really be one episode. What what a single episode of
Speaker 2: the show should do, which is launch you forward into
Speaker 2: the story and want and leave you wanting more and
Speaker 2: wanting to know what happens. It's actually three episodes that
Speaker 2: does that do that, And you know, the first few
Speaker 2: episodes it feels like kind of nothing happens for a
Speaker 2: long time. It's just like introduction, introduction and the introduction
Speaker 2: of hero in much the same way. It's like, so
Speaker 2: we go to that, we have her commit the murder,
Speaker 2: and then we just that just goes away, like we know,
Speaker 2: we don't come back to that. I guess we're gonna
Speaker 2: meet her eventually when she has fallen in with the Amazons.
Speaker 2: But like, it just feels like, what happens in episode
Speaker 2: three that should be episode one, Like that should that's
Speaker 2: how the story should start. It just is a lot
Speaker 2: of set up and I'll say this, and this is
Speaker 2: a spoiler. So for those of you who have not
Speaker 2: read the comics and are going to do it, maybe
Speaker 2: pause or something. But if they pull off a three
Speaker 2: five five uric romance in this show, it is going
Speaker 2: to be one of the greatest accomploicies in storytelling history.
Speaker 2: Because York is such a piece of shit that I
Speaker 2: just can't see it being believable. Yes, he is the
Speaker 2: last literally the last guy on earth, but like every
Speaker 2: time he opens his mouth, you're like, dude, shut up
Speaker 2: and please put a fucking leash on your monkey. Like
Speaker 2: that's the That's the other thing on my read. Is
Speaker 2: it really hit at the time? Like that comic again
Speaker 2: in the post nine to eleven era, it was like
Speaker 2: it was white like why the Last Man? Uh, Scott
Speaker 2: Pilgrim and the Walking Dead were like the critically acclaimed
Speaker 2: comic series that like you just had to read, but
Speaker 2: like looking back on it after the third or fourth
Speaker 2: ampersand Escape, put a fucking leash on the monkey, tie
Speaker 2: a rope around the monkey. Why are you constantly letting
Speaker 2: this monkey escape? Anyway?
Speaker 3: Yorick sucks And like I don't know. I I was
Speaker 3: like hope for the show. It's not for me basically,
Speaker 3: and maybe there's someone out there who's going to be
Speaker 3: like really interested in this deep like political kind of
Speaker 3: plot lines they put in. But it's very American centric,
Speaker 3: which I understand on a budget level, but it's also
Speaker 3: very different from the comic. And yeah, I just I'll
Speaker 3: be interested. Hopefully they'll maybe do some really subversive stuff.
Speaker 3: I think they really wanted to plan for it to
Speaker 3: be five seasons, so there's a lot of time to
Speaker 3: explore that. But yuric sucks and like you said, there's
Speaker 3: a real plague, So no, thank you.
Speaker 2: It's very rude. But listen, uh, I didn't love The
Speaker 2: Walking Dad either. It wasn't for me that but it
Speaker 2: wasn't for me, but like, who knows, maybe it finds
Speaker 2: an audience in the same way that The walk found
Speaker 2: a massive eyes I do.
Speaker 3: I do have a Walking Dead dream though, which is like,
Speaker 3: so okay, so I don't. I don't really like the
Speaker 3: Walking Dead show. It's not for me. But when Robert
Speaker 3: how Robert Kirkman got The Walking Dead picked up by Image,
Speaker 3: he was like driving one of the founders around and
Speaker 3: he was pitching them this comic and it was a
Speaker 3: zombie comic, and they were like, no, we don't want
Speaker 3: a zombie comic. So he told them the twist was
Speaker 3: it was actually an alien invasion comic and that the
Speaker 3: aliens were the ones who put the zombies there. And
Speaker 3: then like he puts out the book and the book
Speaker 3: starts coming out and they're like, where are the Aliens?
Speaker 3: And he's like, it's coming. And then the book gets
Speaker 3: so successful they just forgot about it and it was
Speaker 3: just a straight up lie. But now it's the final
Speaker 3: season of The Walking Dead. I'm like, if you actually
Speaker 3: want to make me a fan, just say it was aliens.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, I mean to your point about this
Speaker 2: being like The Walking Dead, you know, one of the
Speaker 2: kind of central mysteries of Why the Last Man is
Speaker 2: like why did this play start? Much like that? And
Speaker 2: much like The Walking Dead, we never really get there,
Speaker 2: like it's it's not about that, it's about journey the
Speaker 2: world after this happened. So is that satisfying to people
Speaker 2: in the same way that like we never find out
Speaker 2: like what what caused the zon Bobbie plague? And in
Speaker 2: The Walking Dead? I don't know, but I wish everyone
Speaker 2: in the best of luck because it does. It looks great,
Speaker 2: the performances are very good. It just thus far was
Speaker 2: not for me. When we come back, Rosie and I,
Speaker 2: we'd be diving into Marvel's what If. Okay, welcome to
Speaker 2: the airlock. Today we are going to talk about we're
Speaker 2: going to look forward to what If. This is kind
Speaker 2: of going to come out on a Wednesday, so we're
Speaker 2: going to miss, unfortunately, the what if kill Monger save
Speaker 2: Tony Stark episode, which which is what we expect to
Speaker 2: be that episode. But let's talk about what if. Let's
Speaker 2: talk about the previous episodes, some of the comics stuff,
Speaker 2: and then let's take a look forward into what appears
Speaker 2: to be based off the trailer that recently dropped, what
Speaker 2: appears to be a team up close to this season.
Speaker 2: Super super fun, super exciting. Of course, let's quickly run
Speaker 2: through the episodes. Episodes one, what if Captain Carter were
Speaker 2: the first Avenger? We introduced Shuma Gorerath into XCU continuity,
Speaker 2: What if the Challah became star Lord? Episode two? Super
Speaker 2: fun episode, Yeah, maybe my favorite of the early run.
Speaker 2: Episode three, what If the World Lost its Mightiest Heroes?
Speaker 2: In which Hank him always an asshole in the MCU
Speaker 2: and obviously a troubled figure in Marvel Comics canon. He
Speaker 2: just kind of goes ronan serial killer and decides to
Speaker 2: kill all the heroes before they can join up as
Speaker 2: the Avengers. Episode four, what if Doctor Strange lost his
Speaker 2: heart instead of his hands, we get an evil Doctor Strange,
Speaker 2: corrupted Doctor Strange in the in the vernacular of the MCU.
Speaker 2: Episode five, What if Zombies, which I was waiting for,
Speaker 2: super fun. Okay, let's pause here for a second. I
Speaker 2: really like this. I really liked this episode. Hope's sacrifice
Speaker 2: hit me. That was really cool. I don't think Stark's
Speaker 2: armor responds to zombie Stark, Like, I don't think it
Speaker 2: would work.
Speaker 3: I think that's this is my biggest This is my
Speaker 3: biggest problem with the episode. Right, I feel like, rather
Speaker 3: than and it's thirty minute episode, I get it, but
Speaker 3: I feel like, rather than doing a zombie story that
Speaker 3: fits into what we love about zombie stories, which is sacrifice,
Speaker 3: emotional loss. Somebody was like, but what if a zombie
Speaker 3: had Tony Starks armor and like Hulk's powers or whatever,
Speaker 3: Like it's a cool idea to have superhero zombies. But
Speaker 3: I don't think that the suit would do that, and
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily like it's a cool action piece. And
Speaker 3: I kind of in that way, I kind of really
Speaker 3: respect the vibe of like just doing like thirty minutes
Speaker 3: of just pure horror action. There's just choices that I
Speaker 3: do not believe that Bucky could just like kill Steve
Speaker 3: and it wouldn't be a thing like that. I know.
Speaker 3: That was very unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable that was that was very like we're in the
Speaker 2: animated world, and therefore we're going to modulate down like
Speaker 2: the emotional exactly, because he definitely was like I should
Speaker 2: what does he say something like I should feel something?
Speaker 3: Yeah? But and Cap and he's like peace, like cool uh,
Speaker 3: And like I don't. I don't love like I feel
Speaker 3: like I get that you want to have stuff from
Speaker 3: the comics, but like I didn't need to see to'challa
Speaker 3: be the one getting zombie munched one again, like we've
Speaker 3: seen that happen to him in the comics. They could
Speaker 3: have changed it. It wasn't. I didn't love it. But you
Speaker 3: know what, wondering vision they deserve each other that we've
Speaker 3: learned now from this episode. Wonderful those two are.
Speaker 2: I will say, so this is an important thing. I
Speaker 2: think that does set up Multiverse of Madness and Phase
Speaker 2: four in general, which is as we saw from Wandavis.
Speaker 2: It certainly seems as if we are pivoting towards a
Speaker 2: Wanda who is either a flat out villain or is
Speaker 2: the Shades of Gray character much like in the comics,
Speaker 2: whose power level makes her either a villain or a
Speaker 2: hero depending on circumstances. And that is, on the one
Speaker 2: hand's super interesting and also, like, I guess they're just
Speaker 2: turning her into Jean Gray in a weird way. But like,
Speaker 2: I know that is how it is.
Speaker 3: You know that that is what? Yeah, I mean, even
Speaker 3: the power set the way that it's represented here, I mean, yeah, that.
Speaker 2: Is an interesting thing to note as we go forward,
Speaker 2: is Yeah, Listen, in the comics, the relationship between Vision
Speaker 2: and Wanda, their love for each other causes no end
Speaker 2: of problems, up to and including Wanda wishing a way
Speaker 2: basically all the mutants. Nearly this is on the heels
Speaker 2: of creating a world in which the mutants had basically won.
Speaker 3: So yeah, with the manipulation of like her brother and
Speaker 3: her dad, well her sometimes brother and dad magneto and quick.
Speaker 2: So this is gonna this is gonna be, This is
Speaker 2: gonna be. This is a thing to note going forward,
Speaker 2: because it certainly seems as if we're setting up one
Speaker 2: ye'ld be some sort of villain.
Speaker 3: Definitely, and they're establishing that Vision will do whatever he
Speaker 3: needs to do, even in Wonder Vision, like he forgives her,
Speaker 3: you know, like it's it's okay, whatever she's done. And
Speaker 3: in this version we get to see him doing these
Speaker 3: horrific things, you know, torturing people, killing people to feed
Speaker 3: his zombie wife. You know. So these two like they
Speaker 3: don't cause some trouble, and they they got some problems,
Speaker 3: they got some marital issues.
Speaker 2: Do we ever get do you think we ever get
Speaker 2: Power Man?
Speaker 3: I do believe that there is a version where we see,
Speaker 3: like Simon Williams Wonder Man like version of Vision, like
Speaker 3: real vision. I think that that could happen. I was
Speaker 3: sure it was going to happen in I thought it
Speaker 3: would in Wonder Vision. I was just sure because it
Speaker 3: makes so much sense, because so in the comics, Vision's
Speaker 3: mind is based on the imprint of Wonder Man's mind,
Speaker 3: and then later on when he turns into White Vision,
Speaker 3: wonderfuls and love Simon Williams, and then it's all very dramatic,
Speaker 3: and obviously that's not how it was in the MCU
Speaker 3: because you have the Tony starkth or Ultron situation. But
Speaker 3: I do I think that that is likely another character
Speaker 3: who was on the Avengers Forever cover. So I I
Speaker 3: think it is a likely turn of events. And I
Speaker 3: wouldn't even be surprised if we get some hints towards
Speaker 3: the end of What If after all these episodes that
Speaker 3: have seemed slightly disparate apart from Schumerg the recurring Champion,
Speaker 3: But like I wouldn't be I think we're seeing some
Speaker 3: things that are going to be seen into that may and.
Speaker 2: MC let's talk about the mid season sneak peak trailer,
Speaker 2: which is super fun. Unfortunately, so if you don't IMDb
Speaker 2: appears to have spoiled what the find the finale is about,
Speaker 2: So if you don't want to hear this, turnaway now,
Speaker 2: but well, I'll just say that the appears that the
Speaker 2: Big Bad of what looks like a team up of
Speaker 2: the various heroes introduced through the over the course of
Speaker 2: the series, who then join together under the Moniker the
Speaker 2: Guardians of the Multiverse will be fighting Infinite Ultron, which
Speaker 2: is kind of like a merging of Ultron with the Vision,
Speaker 2: a seeming nod to both the Age the Comics Age
Speaker 2: of Ultron limited series crossover event and also like Annihilation
Speaker 2: Conquest in which Ultron sends himself out out into space
Speaker 2: and becomes like an army of Ultrons and then just
Speaker 2: starts like knocking off planets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's even like there's like what if issues
Speaker 3: that play on that too, like what if Vision defeated
Speaker 3: the Avengers. So this it kind of plays on what
Speaker 3: you were already hinting, which is this idea of Vision
Speaker 3: and Wanda potentially being these gray area antagonist characters that
Speaker 3: kind of live outside of that safe bubble of the Avengers.
Speaker 2: So the the mid season sneak Peak trailer is super
Speaker 2: super fun, and we have four episodes left. Of course,
Speaker 2: again this is coming out on the day and episode drops,
Speaker 2: So I would assume that we get Thor we have
Speaker 2: we'd have to get Thor. Thor appears in this sneak
Speaker 2: Peak episode. He is dead in the in the Cannon
Speaker 2: that we have now killed by Hank Pim. But so
Speaker 2: I would assume we get Thor probably in the in
Speaker 2: the what if Killmongers save Tony Stark episode, we still
Speaker 2: need to get we would need to get Tony Stark
Speaker 2: probably from there. That's where we get kill Munger from
Speaker 2: Kill Munger is early in this episode. Let's see Hawkeye
Speaker 2: has been introduced, Spider Man has been introduced. Oh here's
Speaker 2: a fun idea. So we see Gomorra in Thanos armor,
Speaker 2: and we also see Coorg in what appears to be Siicar,
Speaker 2: and we also see the Grand Master dj if hypothesis,
Speaker 2: if this is somehow based on Annihilation Conquest or something
Speaker 2: like that Age of Old, maybe I'm gonna say that
Speaker 2: we're probably getting like a two part finale in which
Speaker 2: the penultimate episode is like the setup. We need to
Speaker 2: here comes the threat, we need to figure out how
Speaker 2: to face the threat, and then they defeat the threat.
Speaker 2: So I think it's some version of It's possibly some
Speaker 2: version of like, let's get the Infinity Gauntlet from Zombie
Speaker 2: Thanos so we can beat this guy. And when Ultron
Speaker 2: is you know, zooming towards Earth, maybe he takes out
Speaker 2: Scar and that is how we see Corgan the Grandmaster.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm gonna throw in something very funny, The
Speaker 3: Joys of Capitalism. Yeah, and so I was in Target
Speaker 3: and I saw a what if lego set. Now there
Speaker 3: are two what if Lego sets that have been released.
Speaker 3: One is what If Hydra Stomper the Cool Captain Carr
Speaker 3: Steve Rodgers Stomper and the other one was that one
Speaker 3: very core. I love it. It's a rad design, so
Speaker 3: that shows that they are making things there in the show.
Speaker 3: The other one was Tony Stark's Sakarian Armor and it
Speaker 3: was basically Tony in like a circar mec. So I
Speaker 3: do wonder if you're a scent I think you might
Speaker 3: be on the right track. I just think that maybe
Speaker 3: something to do with Killmonger saving Tony is going to
Speaker 3: end up with them on that space, which is also
Speaker 3: where we could potentially see thought yes and something along
Speaker 3: those lines. But I definitely, I definitely think that the
Speaker 3: two part finale makes sense. I think you're going to
Speaker 3: get the assembling of the team, yeah, and then you're
Speaker 3: going to get that we gotta fight kind of thing.
Speaker 3: The big question is do you think Uatu like the
Speaker 3: Watcher is going to join them, because I think that
Speaker 3: will be the thing. I think that might be the
Speaker 3: secret kind of Guardians of the Multiverse helper.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they've been hinting at it now. Listen,
Speaker 2: o Watu famously does not interfere in the comics, he
Speaker 2: does not interfere what a lie what he has. Of course,
Speaker 2: when in any story, when when a character who is
Speaker 2: recurring says, I won't do this, the only way the
Speaker 2: story works is if you is, if the creators create
Speaker 2: the context for that person then breaking that rule and
Speaker 2: doing it so I feel like he has to get
Speaker 2: involved somehow, right, Like it has to happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if you think about, like just aesthetically, the
Speaker 3: way the show looks, the animation they use. One of
Speaker 3: the coolest things about it has been how they bring
Speaker 3: him to life with like the stars and the different representations.
Speaker 3: So if you're gonna have this huge Guardians of the
Speaker 3: Multiverse team with all these different rad characters, it would
Speaker 3: be very It would be a cool visual storytelling thing
Speaker 3: to have him there alongside them. And like in the comics,
Speaker 3: I think in the Eternals two thousand and eight series,
Speaker 3: the Dreaming Celestial says he's broken it like four hundred times,
Speaker 3: like he's his thing not to interfit and then like
Speaker 3: one of my favorite ones is in this Fantastic Four
Speaker 3: comic in the eighties ages like in nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 3: the Oatu is like Read Richard's Lawyer because Read Richards
Speaker 3: like saves Galactus or something. But I feel like, especially
Speaker 3: after the emotional kind of drive behind the Doctor Strange
Speaker 3: episode where you really saw are to make that choice
Speaker 3: to not help because it was all about strangers arrogance,
Speaker 3: I think that was like setting here's the line he
Speaker 3: won't cross, but maybe we're going to get see the
Speaker 3: one he will court.
Speaker 2: I think we'll see something like that. You know, the
Speaker 2: multiverse is so threatened that you know, what does it matter?
Speaker 2: What does it mean to be a watcher if there's
Speaker 2: nothing to watch exactly? And I think that's when Uwatu,
Speaker 2: and again it's not actually confirmed that he is Uatu,
Speaker 2: but we'll just call him a Watu for now, the
Speaker 2: watch the Watcher. I think that is when Uwatu decides, fine,
Speaker 2: I will help you by either providing information about the
Speaker 2: things that he's seen. He knows about these other multiverses.
Speaker 2: How are they gonna get together? Right? He's gonna say,
Speaker 2: I know someone who can help. I know a hero
Speaker 2: from this other multiple.
Speaker 3: And like a multiverse or Nick Fury.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that is how they will all get together
Speaker 2: because they don't know about each other right now. So
Speaker 2: I think Owatu will come to a point where he
Speaker 2: sees the multiverse under existential threat, and he and one
Speaker 2: of these heroes will appeal to him how you can't really, like,
Speaker 2: I can't do this alone, and then Oatu will say, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: I know other people who can help, and then it
Speaker 2: will probably be up to that hero to figure out
Speaker 2: how to get to those timelines to bring the people in.
Speaker 2: But I think that's how it happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're definitely right, because when you even
Speaker 3: think about the name of the team, the Guardians of
Speaker 3: the Multiverse, that very specific. They are protecting everything. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like you are too. Wouldn't save Doctor Strange or
Speaker 3: the Watch, wouldn't save Doctor Strange's one universe that he
Speaker 3: messed up with his own selfish things. But if it's
Speaker 3: every universe, then surely you have to step in because
Speaker 3: otherwise do you even exist?
Speaker 2: Like you know, for if people want to get some
Speaker 2: Uatu comics knowledge, where would you where would you point
Speaker 2: them to?
Speaker 3: I think that I do like, I like the weird
Speaker 3: old stuff, so like the Fantastic four stuff like the
Speaker 3: eighties and it basically any weird like comic you could
Speaker 3: pick up in a you know, a quarter bin is
Speaker 3: really my favorite stuff. But there is like speaking of
Speaker 3: Jason Aaron again with actually Might the Other to the
Speaker 3: Invincible Iron Man Artist. Yeah, there was an Original Sin
Speaker 3: Original Sin series. I think people really really like dig
Speaker 3: on that one.
Speaker 2: That was a fun like Marvel does. Yeah, Marvel doesn't
Speaker 2: do Who Done It very often and so like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like I dug the who Done It ness of it.
Speaker 2: I would I would argue that the that the reveal
Speaker 2: is not super satisfying, but like the journey is is
Speaker 2: pretty fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that. I think that. I think
Speaker 3: that also just looking for any comics that are cosmic,
Speaker 3: you'll usually find the watches popping up. Yeah, I'm a
Speaker 3: big fan of any kind of like Infinity Want the
Speaker 3: Infinity War, that kind of stuff, Like they're always popping
Speaker 3: up doing some nonsense, the Dreaming, the Eternals, the two
Speaker 3: thousand and eight, which I think is volume three series
Speaker 3: that has quite a lot of a war Tu centric
Speaker 3: stuff because like a war two doesn't want to walk
Speaker 3: when the Dreaming Celestial is worn and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So like, I feel like that. I feel like the
Speaker 3: fact that we've got this what if series, and my
Speaker 3: brain does always make connections that are not always true
Speaker 3: because I just have too much information in there and
Speaker 3: trying to make sense of it. But the I was
Speaker 3: thinking about that Eternal stuff a lot, and I was
Speaker 3: feeling like what if right now introducing the concept of
Speaker 3: the Watcher and then having this emergence in the Eternals
Speaker 3: movie and stuff, I feel like there's this is again
Speaker 3: something that could very easily cross over.
Speaker 2: I agree with you. And then certainly, you know, as
Speaker 2: we saw from the announcement for Avengance Forever, this stuff
Speaker 2: is is it's starting to cross over now like once,
Speaker 2: we haven't seen anything jump obviously it's too soon, right,
Speaker 2: but we but it's yet to be seen if stuff
Speaker 2: will jump directly from animated to live action, but certainly
Speaker 2: jumping from live action animated to comics is yeah, the
Speaker 2: next step is live action. Yeah, yeah, I'm I gotta say,
Speaker 2: like if what if? Really, I think they'll I think
Speaker 2: they will nail listen that animated is I love animated
Speaker 2: series and then this is like, again something that I've
Speaker 2: been waiting for for a long time. I think that
Speaker 2: if they nail this team up, it opens the door
Speaker 2: to a lot of really really fun things. Brad winder Bomb,
Speaker 2: the head of Streaming TV and animation at Marvel, said quote,
Speaker 2: all Marvel projects are in some way connected. There's always
Speaker 2: the potential with regards to animation going to live action. Again,
Speaker 2: I would imagine it seems to me more plausible that
Speaker 2: it would go animation to Comics two.
Speaker 3: Because becomes canon then yeah, the correct but yeah, it's
Speaker 3: super super funny. Yeah. I also think that, like you're
Speaker 3: so right about that. I think that if this lands
Speaker 3: in the way that they want it to, I just
Speaker 3: think there's so much space for a mark a solid
Speaker 3: Marvel animation because like, yeah, we will have amazing memories
Speaker 3: of the X Men ninety show and stuff. But like
Speaker 3: if you've like one wasn't made by Marvel two, Like
Speaker 3: the animation is very nineties, that's the nice place the
Speaker 3: quality of it, you know, and in a world where
Speaker 3: DC is putting out multiple incredible, like cinema level, iconic
Speaker 3: like animated movies, obviously you have a space now because
Speaker 3: of streaming services. People are getting to watch not just
Speaker 3: classic anime series and stuff, but also like brand new
Speaker 3: anime at all times, Like there's always new stuff coming
Speaker 3: out that's inspiring people. This is a space where Marvel,
Speaker 3: I think not just can grow, but kind of needs
Speaker 3: to grow.
Speaker 2: Well, where DC really took the lead. I think one
Speaker 2: of the great things that DC has done is they
Speaker 2: made animated versions of some of their great arcs, great stories.
Speaker 2: That's the next step if Marvel wants to and it
Speaker 2: wants to get into the space, it's like, what what
Speaker 2: do we have in the vaults that And I don't
Speaker 2: think it's I don't think U the story already being
Speaker 2: adapted for live actions, say the Ultimates or something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a problem because the live actions
Speaker 2: are so different, it's different. What do you think is
Speaker 2: like the arcs to pick if they're gonna do that?
Speaker 3: This is what I think is the most obvious thing, right,
Speaker 3: And I really liked What If, But I would hope
Speaker 3: that this I think, like the Doctor Strange episode, specifically,
Speaker 3: some of the face animation wasn't really like one hundred
Speaker 3: percent there, Like I would love to see a lot
Speaker 3: of money thrown at a real Infinity Saga, like a
Speaker 3: real like from the comics. Imagine that sprawling you. It
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. People have seen the MCU, they've read the comics,
Speaker 3: they know who Fanos is. You can do Adam Warlock,
Speaker 3: the just imagine the cosmos like the Unbelievable Adventure, getting
Speaker 3: to see the duality of all those characters. And then
Speaker 3: if you want, you can even call it like Infinity
Speaker 3: Saga legacy or whatever, and it's a way to once
Speaker 3: again reintroduce characters. The thing. Now, there's a million other
Speaker 3: stories that I would love to see as well, like
Speaker 3: why not make a fensetastic four movie based on like
Speaker 3: that introduction of Galactus. You know you could, you could
Speaker 3: really do that that that little short arc. Marvel has
Speaker 3: so many famous like three four issue. Yes, but I
Speaker 3: do think that post MCU, post what they call the
Speaker 3: Infinity Saga, if you're going to make an animated movie
Speaker 3: or a series of animated movies, that is a place
Speaker 3: where you could do something really spectacular that would really
Speaker 3: make you stand out, that is also already accessible to
Speaker 3: people who love the MCU. Do you have any that
Speaker 3: you would love to see?
Speaker 2: I would love to see a bunch of X Men stuff.
Speaker 2: Like take any of the of the great arcs of
Speaker 2: the Claremont era and just directly translate them as Guardian Wars,
Speaker 2: which is the X Men and the New Mutants getting
Speaker 2: wrapped up in a bunch of skullduggery and Asgard would
Speaker 2: be an absolutely like incredible animated series. Avengers under Siege,
Speaker 2: the famous Roger Stern arc in which the Masters of
Speaker 2: Evil break into the Avengers mansion and basically lay waste
Speaker 2: to it, and it's up to Wasp and Black Knight
Speaker 2: and Captain America basically to like take it back. Hercules
Speaker 2: gets his fucking ass dump, you know, Like you know,
Speaker 2: Ultimate Spider Man is kind of like a no brainer,
Speaker 2: Like like the early Ultimate Ultimate spider Man arcs are
Speaker 2: like if you made a two hour Ultimate Spider Man
Speaker 2: like movie that's based like right off of the first
Speaker 2: like twenty four issues of that comic, I think that's
Speaker 2: that would absolutely hit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that there's like a really into when
Speaker 3: you brought Roger Sterne as well. Like I was just
Speaker 3: thinking of some comics that like so something that I
Speaker 3: think a lot of people really especially like people our
Speaker 3: age people a bit older. The Bob Late and Iron
Speaker 3: Man stuff where Tony's like struggling with addiction. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: not really gonna they touch on it, ay the tiniest
Speaker 3: knots in the MCU because they know people care about it.
Speaker 3: But imagine if you made an animated movie that was
Speaker 3: actually just about like Tony at his lowest but kind
Speaker 3: of coming through it. Like DC has broached that R
Speaker 3: rated boundary. You know, they've done the Dark Night Returns,
Speaker 3: They've done like these different things. You could use this
Speaker 3: as a space. I do think the most likely first
Speaker 3: version of it is seeding stuff. Whether you are going
Speaker 3: to do something, they'll be really cool like that Jason
Speaker 3: Aarron Like, uh see Wakanda and Die the Secret Invasion Wakanda,
Speaker 3: Like that's a great art that's really visually interesting that
Speaker 3: you could really use to set up the Secret Invasion show. Right,
Speaker 3: that's gonna happen. So I think seeding stuff is really
Speaker 3: what they're going to be doing. But just now talking
Speaker 3: to you, I just realized that something that's really cool
Speaker 3: is it could be a space for stories from the
Speaker 3: comics that we're probably never going to see in live action,
Speaker 3: a little bit more deep cut, a little bit darker.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying born again again, you know, it's a
Speaker 2: great exactly.
Speaker 3: But then again I realized I just jinxed myself because
Speaker 3: my worst nightmare would be like a trouble animated series
Speaker 3: about like sexy slight, aren't they And I'm like, that's.
Speaker 1: Like, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think they'll ever. For instance, in live action,
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, Craven's Last Hunt, Cravens Last Hunt,
Speaker 2: like that is such a dark comic. Like rereading it,
Speaker 2: I was shocked.
Speaker 3: How but it would be an amazing animated.
Speaker 2: But as an animated it would be really really really cool.
Speaker 2: And also like because you know, listen, we'll probably never
Speaker 2: well who knows, but like a very very clean and
Speaker 2: easy way to do like why not do the classic
Speaker 2: saga of the of the Alien Suit? Like do that
Speaker 2: do that? You know Peter comes back from Secret Wars
Speaker 2: and then the whole thing like that was such an
Speaker 2: iconic run.
Speaker 3: I do think that one of the things that people
Speaker 3: don't really I talk like, I'm always thinking about this,
Speaker 3: and I do think one of the things. The reason
Speaker 3: why that X Men cartoon, the ninety Spider Man cartoon,
Speaker 3: I think the reason that those really spoke to people
Speaker 3: even when they were just kids, right, is because they
Speaker 3: did these really really really really really really really simplified
Speaker 3: versions of these iconic arcs, whether it's you know, the Phoenix,
Speaker 3: whether it's the Black Suit. Like, they're not great, but
Speaker 3: you're taking from these stories that have so much depth.
Speaker 3: So to be able to actually do like a Phoenix saga,
Speaker 3: a true Phoenix saga, or a true you know, black
Speaker 3: Suit Spider Man, but maybe the kind of I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously we know it was Sony, but like into the
Speaker 3: Spider Verse just opened up the idea of what animation
Speaker 3: can be in these stories. And I feel like there's
Speaker 3: so many lessons there for everyone to learn. And I
Speaker 3: think that I definitely thought what if it was? I
Speaker 3: had quite a low expectations because for a long time,
Speaker 3: my understanding of Marvel animation was those terrible motion comics
Speaker 3: they would make out of arcs, which were like really
Speaker 3: upsetting to me. I have like a real aversion to
Speaker 3: a motion comic. I think it's because they used to
Speaker 3: sell that Watchmen motion comic in every comic shop for
Speaker 3: like twenty pounds.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's just like just make the animated
Speaker 2: series or don't don't ease, but don't do this. But
Speaker 2: but to be honest with you, I think that that was.
Speaker 3: What it blew me away. Yea, yeah, because that was
Speaker 3: like that was it was like a step they I
Speaker 3: wasn't expecting the animation to be so good. I feel
Speaker 3: like they found this really dynamic, unique way of telling
Speaker 3: these stories that represents the characters in a way that
Speaker 3: you know them, but that has a lot of fun
Speaker 3: out there stuff that you need from what if. So
Speaker 3: I'm really excited to see what that next step is
Speaker 3: and how they could bring like I don't want them
Speaker 3: to get stuck in one animation style. I think the
Speaker 3: idea of having multiple animation styles potentially inspired by some
Speaker 3: of these great artists that we love, or just doing
Speaker 3: something totally different than fits the story. I think that's
Speaker 3: just a really exciting next step and maybe even a world.
Speaker 3: You know, Disney is known for releasing animated movies, Disney
Speaker 3: picks up, maybe there's a world where we could one
Speaker 3: day see like an X Men animated movie in a
Speaker 3: theater Like that just warms my heart. That idea, that's
Speaker 3: something I could.
Speaker 2: See up next. In the Hive Mind, I chat with
Speaker 2: Shang Chi and the Legend and the ten Ring star Simouliu. Hey, guys, Hello,
Speaker 2: how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm really good man, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing great. The movie is fantastic. It was an
Speaker 2: extremely emotional experience as a long time a comic book
Speaker 2: fan to watch it and congratulations on not only getting
Speaker 2: the role, but becoming a funko pop and an action figure.
Speaker 2: When did it become real for you? Like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: we're doing this? Was it the chemistry read was it
Speaker 2: the call from from Marvel? Was it the costume fitting?
Speaker 1: I think it was Comic Con.
Speaker 5: I think it was just been you know, cast four
Speaker 5: days and I was asked to fly down to San
Speaker 5: Diego and meet everybody. And I mean everybody. I mean
Speaker 5: we're talking like you know post Endgame. Wow, the like
Speaker 5: the comic Con that happened. You know, Endgame had literally
Speaker 5: just come out two months prior. Everyone was like, what
Speaker 5: is face for? There's all these question marks. Nobody knew
Speaker 5: what was happening. People speculated, but you know that that
Speaker 5: was the landscape that I fel So it was a
Speaker 5: very very exciting year. People from every single upcoming movie,
Speaker 5: Disney plus project, they all flew in and all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, I found myself on stage with Angelina.
Speaker 1: Jolie, with Chris Hemsworth.
Speaker 5: With you know, Sebastian Stan Anthony Mackie, like just some
Speaker 5: of the most famous people on earth and me in
Speaker 5: in my skinny jeans from.
Speaker 2: Zara Great I mean a great a great outlet.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, no, no, knock on Zara.
Speaker 1: But I mean some of these some of these people
Speaker 1: were just I.
Speaker 5: Mean they looked like the visage of beauty and then
Speaker 5: I looked I just like some schmuck that had just
Speaker 5: shown up out of the blue, like off the street
Speaker 5: or just stepped on stage randomly. But yeah, just just
Speaker 5: being there among among everybody really really just hit that
Speaker 5: home for me.
Speaker 2: It's I mean, it's been so meaningful for me as
Speaker 2: a you know, Asian American to to to watch this happen.
Speaker 2: Are you, like, how much are you of allowing yourself
Speaker 2: to feel that, to feel like, what an amazing moment,
Speaker 2: especially after a tough year it's been for for Asians
Speaker 2: in the West, like for to be that representative figure.
Speaker 1: I am a I.
Speaker 5: Think of myself as a representative figure, and I think
Speaker 5: it it is a wonderful moment for our community. Because
Speaker 5: we finally, you know, get to have a lead superhero.
Speaker 5: We get to watch a movie where that you know,
Speaker 5: the title is an Asian is an Asian name, and
Speaker 5: I think that's so incredible. But but further than that,
Speaker 5: I think there's also you know, many other Asian characters
Speaker 5: in our story that you know, are are you know,
Speaker 5: equally bad ass, have have amazing arcs and their own
Speaker 5: dimensionality and nuance, which which is incredible. But uh yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean I've never I've never kind of shied away
Speaker 5: from from being one of you know, some somebody who's
Speaker 5: who's outspoken about that.
Speaker 1: I think, Uh, I owe a lot of my career too,
Speaker 1: to you know.
Speaker 5: The gates opening and Asian creatives being allowed to tell
Speaker 5: their stories, from Kim's Convenience to you know, Nora from
Speaker 5: Queen's Fresh off the Boat. I mean, without the community,
Speaker 5: there literally is none of none of those things. So
Speaker 5: I'm very happy to be one of their, one of
Speaker 5: the many representatives and to and to speak out about
Speaker 5: about issues that I think affect us.
Speaker 1: Our communities come out in a in a massive way
Speaker 1: for us.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a massive.
Speaker 1: Anecdotally just what I see on the street, it's what
Speaker 1: I it's what I see all my friends blowing up
Speaker 1: my phone and saying, hey, I'm going to watch it
Speaker 1: again and again and again. I think people really are
Speaker 1: rooting for the success of this movie, and it's and
Speaker 1: it's just absolutely so touching to see the community all galvanized.
Speaker 2: It's an absolutely terrible day for for your enemies and
Speaker 2: for the enemies of anybody who doubted this film. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's it's crushing right now. It must it must feel
Speaker 2: me that you're doing it. The movie is as a hit.
Speaker 5: I mean, it feels it feels great. It feels great
Speaker 5: to share it with the world and and to see
Speaker 5: them to feel their response to it because we've been
Speaker 5: sitting on this thing for for so long. We filmed it,
Speaker 5: you know, a year ago in Sydney, and I mean
Speaker 5: we we we knew that we.
Speaker 1: Had something special.
Speaker 5: I knew right off the bat that Destin was a
Speaker 5: it was a very special filmmaker. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 5: I mean, I couldn't have imagined the way that, you know,
Speaker 5: the series of events that that would have played out
Speaker 5: to lead us here. It's been tough, you know, for
Speaker 5: the whole world, and for for a number of reasons.
Speaker 5: So I'm really not the only one who's going through it.
Speaker 5: But uh yeah, it's it's, it's it's it's a happy
Speaker 5: ending to a movie that almost almost didn't get made.
Speaker 2: Have you allowed yourself to like eat a carb yet? Uh,
Speaker 2: you're training for this. Uh you've talked about it. But
Speaker 2: must have been incredible, very arduous physicality throughout these the
Speaker 2: various scenes in this movie. What was that like doing
Speaker 2: the real hardcore action fight scenes.
Speaker 1: It was it was really cool.
Speaker 5: It was you know, it was it was like preparing
Speaker 5: for a season of professional athletics. It was like training
Speaker 5: five six hours every day, you know, with the stunt
Speaker 5: team and working everything from like the range of motion,
Speaker 5: the flexibility to explosiveness, fight choreography, martial arts.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it was.
Speaker 5: It was as much of a of a martial arts
Speaker 5: boot camp as you could get.
Speaker 1: And I often just kind of come home and collapse.
Speaker 5: On the bed and like literally sleep at like eight
Speaker 5: pm because I was so tired. I literally had no
Speaker 5: energy to even like eat dinner. I mean, that's the
Speaker 5: that's I think, what it what it takes, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 5: we had so many action sequences and we had a
Speaker 5: very very high bar for what those sequences we're gonna
Speaker 5: be and what they're going to do for our movies.
Speaker 1: So you know, I wanted to do as much as
Speaker 1: I possibly could.
Speaker 5: I knew that that would benefit the movie if we
Speaker 5: didn't constantly cut away to stunt people.
Speaker 1: So wherever I could, I asked to do the shots.
Speaker 5: I asked to put in the work because you know,
Speaker 5: you don't get an opportunity like this every day, and
Speaker 5: I just I just wanted to embrace it as much
Speaker 5: as I could.
Speaker 2: There's so many fun set pieces in the film, whether
Speaker 2: it's the bus fight and fighting the outside of the building.
Speaker 2: Do you have a personal favorite it, you know, whether
Speaker 2: it's a fight scene, an action scene, or just a
Speaker 2: quieter moment that that you just find yourself thinking about
Speaker 2: and returning to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I personally actually really love the fight between Shang
Speaker 5: Chi and his dad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, just that whole journey.
Speaker 5: And it's not the most intricately choreograph like, it doesn't
Speaker 5: take place on the side of a building or a
Speaker 5: bus us, but it is so emotionally raw and I
Speaker 5: and I remember, you know, being there with with Tony
Speaker 5: Lung and in that moment and and going through that
Speaker 5: scene and feeling just the very real emotions that were
Speaker 5: that I think we were both feeling.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: I think when I watch it back, I still get
Speaker 5: chills because it is so much more than than a fight,
Speaker 5: you know, and sure by the numbers as a fight,
Speaker 5: it's it's relatively straightforward.
Speaker 1: One guy's got a stick, one guy's got two rings.
Speaker 5: But but there's just you know, there's just a world
Speaker 5: of like trauma and grief and anger and just being
Speaker 5: hurled at each other. This father and son that are
Speaker 5: just so desperate to connect and and so desperate to
Speaker 5: love again. It's it's really you know, I think I
Speaker 5: find it really sad and heartbreaking but up but also
Speaker 5: just like so human and and so watchable.
Speaker 2: Spoiler Shong is now in possession of the ten Rings
Speaker 2: at the end of the film, Can you tell us
Speaker 2: a little bit about like what they do or where
Speaker 2: they come from? And if you can't, do you know,
Speaker 2: do you know like the origins of these mysterious and
Speaker 2: powerful items?
Speaker 3: No, what.
Speaker 1: My journey.
Speaker 5: My journey is exactly the same as my characters, which is, oh,
Speaker 5: there are those giant ass rings that my dad's been
Speaker 5: wielding around for the last however long.
Speaker 1: Oh shoot, now they're on my arm. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I guess I'll just I guess I'll just carry these
Speaker 5: around until someone tells me what they're doing or what
Speaker 5: they're what they were. You know, I honestly have no idea,
Speaker 5: But I do know that that you know, Kevin and
Speaker 5: the rest of the folks at Marble do, and they will,
Speaker 5: they will craft a very very incredible story around it
Speaker 5: when the when the time is right, which may or
Speaker 5: may not involve me.
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 2: What's it like to see yourself now as a Funko
Speaker 2: pop as an action figure? I also have your action
Speaker 2: figure on it on the shelf behind me. What is it?
Speaker 2: That must be surreal? What is it like?
Speaker 1: Surreal? You described it?
Speaker 5: It definitely throws me for a loop every time I
Speaker 5: see it. I mean, I was a big action figure
Speaker 5: guy when I was when I was little, except we
Speaker 5: couldn't afford to buy any action figures full price, so
Speaker 5: my parents just bought whatever was that yard sales, you know,
Speaker 5: all over the place. So I had this like mismatched
Speaker 5: group of random action figures from random universes. None of
Speaker 5: them were ever Asian, not a single one, So it's
Speaker 5: it's pretty cool that we have we.
Speaker 1: Have some now not just one, but yeah, many characters.
Speaker 5: And I just think that represents represents a lot for
Speaker 5: a kid to be able to be able to see
Speaker 5: themselves and that the heroes that they play with and
Speaker 5: that they, you know, use their imagination for, and I
Speaker 5: think in a way shows them that anything is possible.
Speaker 2: You mentioned just the outpouring of of fan reviews and
Speaker 2: feedback and stuff. Is there and has been anything that
Speaker 2: that particularly touched you in terms of people saying, it's
Speaker 2: incredible to see this see myself represented on any number
Speaker 2: of the characters, by any number of the characters that
Speaker 2: I see on screen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, I mean that's that's definitely very special for
Speaker 5: me to hear. And I've and I've heard it a
Speaker 5: couple of times, you know, I've I've read it in reviews,
Speaker 5: I've I've had people texted to me, and that's always
Speaker 5: incredibly touching. What I like, too, is that a lot
Speaker 5: of people will say, I didn't you know, people, people
Speaker 5: maybe outside of the Asian community, will say, I didn't
Speaker 5: go in expecting to like this movie, but I came
Speaker 5: out of it with a whole you know, I came
Speaker 5: out loving it. It was one of my favorites, you know,
Speaker 5: movies in the MCU, and I came out of it
Speaker 5: with a whole new understanding. And it means that it
Speaker 5: means that this movie is more than just about being
Speaker 5: made for Asian people by Asian people, that this movie
Speaker 5: can also be a bridge.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: It's a bridge between cultures, it's a bridge between languages.
Speaker 5: It's you know, it really is an invitation to everybody
Speaker 5: to come and share in our joys and our sorrows
Speaker 5: and everything in between, you know, and our culture and
Speaker 5: our language and all of the things that make us proud.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I certainly hope that it continues to do that.
Speaker 2: Uh, if you could just imagine something, I know you
Speaker 2: can't tell us specifically, but where would you what kind
Speaker 2: of like adventures would you like to see Schunk show
Speaker 2: up on next? Like are we going to see him
Speaker 2: punching a variant Fanos in the face with the ten rings?
Speaker 2: Like what would be a fun will be a fun
Speaker 2: adventure for Stung to go on?
Speaker 5: I kind of hope, I kind of hope that he
Speaker 5: does more you know, grounded stuff, you know, Like I
Speaker 5: think the way that the rings of such a massive
Speaker 5: power set and I and I just hope that it
Speaker 5: doesn't come at the cost of really really cool action
Speaker 5: sequences because because you know, one of the things that
Speaker 5: really worked with our movie is that, you know, Sean,
Speaker 5: Sean doesn't really have superpowers.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's got to fly. He can't just fly
Speaker 1: through the scaffolding.
Speaker 5: He's got to like climb, and same thing with the bus,
Speaker 5: Like he can't just blow the bus in half and
Speaker 5: you know, or lift the entire but like he's got
Speaker 5: to really work within the constraints of the physical universe.
Speaker 1: So I would you know, I hope that that happens
Speaker 1: at least, you know a little bit more.
Speaker 2: He's got to go back to being a valet. He's
Speaker 2: just you know, it's got to apologize for taking time
Speaker 2: off and and go back to parking the cars.
Speaker 1: Exactly like San Francisco.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking the time seeming really
Speaker 2: appreciate it, and congratulations on the success of the film.
Speaker 2: It's been amazing to watch.
Speaker 1: Thanks man, really appreciate it. It's great talking.
Speaker 2: When we're back, Rosie and I will enter the End Game.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Endgame, where me and Rosie get to
Speaker 2: play a game, sometimes with a guest, this time just
Speaker 2: with each other. And the game today is Top fives,
Speaker 2: in which we list our top five apocalypses in pop
Speaker 2: culture across the board. We have decided, because we make
Speaker 2: the rules that dystopian fiction is also allowed, we can
Speaker 2: do dystopius. Yes, it's so, Rosie, would you like to
Speaker 2: go first?
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, So I have very specific reasons for it.
Speaker 2: So yeah.
Speaker 3: My first one is Night of the Comet, which is
Speaker 3: a one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I call the chill apocalypse because it's
Speaker 3: like that one you can just be like in the
Speaker 3: mall or like watching a movie and you just like
Speaker 3: occasionally kill like a slow zombie. I used to work
Speaker 3: in a cinema and I used to definitely like think
Speaker 3: that I was the main character from that movie. I'll
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, I'll just come out of the middle
Speaker 3: of the night. If there's an apocalypse, I'll be cool.
Speaker 3: Next is a Kira, just because I mean I just
Speaker 3: want to be cool and live in neo Tokyo. So
Speaker 3: obviously post destruction of Tokyo, very dramatic. People are getting
Speaker 3: mutant powers. There's cool gangs everywhere. Everyone's riding a sick motorcycle.
Speaker 3: I love Akira, so that would definitely be high up
Speaker 3: on my list.
Speaker 2: Tank Girl, oh a tank Girl movies or the comic.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with the movie just because it fits
Speaker 3: better because it's like post a Comet. There's like a
Speaker 3: drought and a water sore. It's so tech again, just
Speaker 3: be cool driving around the tank looking cool, having a
Speaker 3: cool lesbian friend, like living life. Next up is my
Speaker 3: comics one, which is Age of Apocalypse. I don't think
Speaker 3: it would be like particularly enjoyable to be there, but
Speaker 3: like it's very epic. Yeah, it's a lot of like Shenanigans. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there are a lot of so like legions killed Charles
Speaker 3: Xavier instead of Magneto, and that means Apocalypse comes earlier
Speaker 3: and things are going bad, mutants are running right. Hopefully
Speaker 3: I would be a mutant in that world, I guess
Speaker 3: if I get to pick, because otherwise humans are getting killed.
Speaker 3: But just like cool, I mune Uprising stuff and my
Speaker 3: last one, which is definitely more dystopian, but we agree
Speaker 3: that works. Escape from New York that's the Yeah, maybe
Speaker 3: Escape from LAF. I want to do like some surfing,
Speaker 3: but I'm bad at surfing.
Speaker 2: So dope, that's my Donald hung out with Kurt.
Speaker 3: Russell, have the sunglasses.
Speaker 2: Here's here's Donald pleasance in Halloween. Now now, okay, those
Speaker 2: are all great, So I'm gonna say my number first
Speaker 2: one is Twenty eight Days Later, the movie which kind
Speaker 2: of revitalized the zombie genre, you know, along with Max
Speaker 2: Brooks's uh it was the name of the books, along
Speaker 2: with Max Brooks's World war Z, and introduced as zombies
Speaker 2: into the pop cultural cannon. That movie, so it was produced,
Speaker 2: It was filmed before nine to eleven, but came out,
Speaker 2: like I want to say, a month later, right around there,
Speaker 2: and it seemed so of a time of that time.
Speaker 2: And I remember seeing in the theater and just being
Speaker 2: like horrified and blown away and also just like ge
Speaker 2: chanted by, like the low fineness of it, like the
Speaker 2: kind of gorilla filmmaking London, completely like abandoned. They filmed
Speaker 2: it at like six am on Sundays when there was
Speaker 2: the least amount of people that could be around, and
Speaker 2: it just looks incredible. Next, I'm Gonna go Time runs
Speaker 2: out of the Jonathan Hickman storyline that ran in New
Speaker 2: Avengers and Avengers and is about a version of which
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll see in the MCU, which is about
Speaker 2: various multiversal realities crashing into the main Earth reality and
Speaker 2: the kind of moral lines the heroes have to cross
Speaker 2: in order to deal with this threat. Next, Children of Men,
Speaker 2: which is like a prophetic movie, like if you watching
Speaker 2: it at the time, it's one of those very rare feelings,
Speaker 2: you know. It was a Christmas movie. Weirdly enough, I
Speaker 2: remember seeing it and thinking, this feels like the world
Speaker 2: in ten, fifteen and or twenty years, and lo and
Speaker 2: behold it happened. Days of Future passed the comic arc.
Speaker 2: It's crazy you mentioned earlier in the podcast, like these
Speaker 2: little two and three mini arcs, that was like the
Speaker 2: norm back then when it was harder to keep track
Speaker 2: of comics, and it was it was just harder for
Speaker 2: people to like keep up with them and know what
Speaker 2: was going on, so you couldn't really stretch a story
Speaker 2: out over ten twelve issues, you know, not until like
Speaker 2: Secret Wars and stuff. But the two so it's X
Speaker 2: Men one forty one and one forty two, and it's
Speaker 2: just is the cover of one, which is like old
Speaker 2: Wolverine and Kitty Pride Kate Pride standing in front of
Speaker 2: a wanted poster of all the X Men, and it
Speaker 2: just says like slain over there over their faces is
Speaker 2: just It's one of the most referenced and iconic covers
Speaker 2: in comics history. I love it. And then finally Armageddon,
Speaker 2: which I think is the most entertaining right wing movie
Speaker 2: ever made. It is about, for those of you don't know,
Speaker 2: is about a massive comment that's gonna hit Earth and
Speaker 2: the conceit is. Yes we have NASA, Yes we have
Speaker 2: like astronauts, Yes we have like our massive military machine.
Speaker 2: But the only people who can deal with this are
Speaker 2: the oil workers, oil company workers. And what do they
Speaker 2: want in order to deal with this? They want to
Speaker 2: never pay taxes again, that's what they want, So that
Speaker 2: is the movie. Also, it opens with iconic scene of
Speaker 2: like Bruce Willis like hitting golf balls at a green
Speaker 2: peace boat. Again, the politics of this movie are horrific,
Speaker 2: but I enjoy watching it. What are your top five
Speaker 2: apocalypse movies about dystopian fiction. I almost did Mad Max,
Speaker 2: but it seemed like that apocalypse was too far in
Speaker 2: the past, like that was it had already happened, maybe
Speaker 2: one hundred years ago or something.
Speaker 1: Like that.
Speaker 2: So I these are our top fives? What are your
Speaker 2: top fives? Get at us, tweeted us, post at us,
Speaker 2: let us know what your top five apocalypses are. Well,
Speaker 2: that's it for our show today on behalf of Rosie
Speaker 2: and myself. Thank you for listening. Please tune in again
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcast. X ray Vision is a
Speaker 2: Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord
Speaker 2: and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by me
Speaker 2: and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Reston and Carlton Gillespie are are
Speaker 2: consulting producers, and our editing and sound design is by
Speaker 2: David Grinbaum foks. At chapter four, thank you to Brian
Speaker 2: Vasquez for our theme music. See you next time.