1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,880
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

3
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,520
Speaker 1: Norri with you. Nick Pope worked for the United Kingdom's

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,440
Speaker 1: Ministry of Defense for twenty one years, and for much

5
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,520
Speaker 1: of that early point nineties he was posted to a

6
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,239
Speaker 1: division where his duties included with searching and investigating the

7
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 1: UFO phenomenon to assess whether there was evidence of any

8
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: threat to the defense of the United Kingdom. Dick took

9
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,120
Speaker 1: early retirement and in two thousand and six. He now

10
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,040
Speaker 1: lives in the US where he works as a broadcaster

11
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,559
Speaker 1: journalists specializing in stories on UFOs the unexplained conspiracy theories.

12
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 1: He's well sought after in live events as well. Nick Pope,

13
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,239
Speaker 1: back on Coast to Coast. Mister Pope, how are you.

14
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,839
Speaker 1: I'm very well, Thank you, George. Great to be back on.

15
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,879
Speaker 1: I'm miss seeing you at these events. We got to

16
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 1: get them going again. Oh absolutely, Now the world has restarted.

17
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 1: I think it's time to get back count there. Yeah. Absolutely,

18
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 1: We've got this picture of the Calvine photo. I want

19
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 1: you to tell us about the emerging new one here.

20
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,839
Speaker 1: Is it the same one as the original. Well, now

21
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a little bit of a tease

22
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: on this one, and I don't generally like to do this,

23
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 1: but on that question, I had to go back to

24
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,680
Speaker 1: my old bosses at the Ministry of Defense and take

25
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 1: some instructions. And I know this will probably fuel the

26
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,560
Speaker 1: Nick Pope still secretly working for the government rumors. But

27
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 1: the Ministry of Defense is very clear at the moment,

28
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 1: they're holding the line that they're not going to confirm

29
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 1: or deny that that is the original picture, or rather

30
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,320
Speaker 1: one of them, because of the we're six. So I'm

31
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,200
Speaker 1: going to have to follow that line, I'm afraid, and

32
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: really not not comment on that specific question, although we

33
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: can talk about other aspects of the case, but it's

34
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 1: it's an intriguing one. The Ministry of Defense just isn't

35
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 1: commenting on this. So you've got a bunch of uthologists

36
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 1: sort of saying we found the picture. We found the

37
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:12,080
Speaker 1: picture after after you know, decades, We followed the bread

38
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 1: crumbs that Nicope Spring called and we followed the trail

39
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,680
Speaker 1: and we've we've tracked it down and we've found it,

40
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 1: and the Ministry Defense have said no comment. I assume

41
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 1: the picture we've posted at Coast to Coast dot com

42
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 1: is the newer one. I don't know which one you've posted, actually,

43
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: so I'm going to have to I'm gonna have to check.

44
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,920
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is part of the issue

45
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,639
Speaker 1: with this. There's so much confusion because, in fact, the

46
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,920
Speaker 1: only image that the Ministry of Defense has confirmed is

47
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 1: genuine is a really poor quality black and white photocopy

48
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,639
Speaker 1: taken from one of the originals, which is in one

49
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,160
Speaker 1: of the declassified files that I worked on. Everything else

50
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 1: is either a recreation which I was involved with, or

51
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:10,519
Speaker 1: is just something that that civilian UFO researchers have acquired

52
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 1: courtesy of a retired The guy who's at the center

53
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,080
Speaker 1: of this is a retired Royal Air Force press officer

54
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 1: called Craig Lindsay, who claims that he had this image.

55
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,680
Speaker 1: You know that he obviously acquired at work, took it home,

56
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 1: which would not be authorized procedure obviously, and you know,

57
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 1: thirty years later whatever we are, gave it to some uthologists. Well,

58
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of controversy about this. There are psy

59
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:49,120
Speaker 1: ops that go on sometimes people get pranked, so so

60
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 1: there's there's information, misinformation and disinformation here. It's a tangled

61
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 1: web for sure. The picture we are posting there, I'll

62
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 1: describe it to you on the Coast website it under

63
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,320
Speaker 1: your name is a color photo which shows a jet

64
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 1: plane in the foreground and this triangular shape ufol really

65
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: close to the camera. Yeah. I mean, it's the problem

66
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 1: with all of that is that is exactly that's the

67
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 1: recreation that that or it sounds like the recreation I did.

68
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 1: But the problem is that the newly emerged picture is

69
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,440
Speaker 1: almost identical to that. So I'm I'm in a little

70
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 1: bit of a funny position here, George, because the irony

71
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: is that for years some skeptics didn't even believe this story.

72
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,000
Speaker 1: They were saying, you know, oh, Nick, Nick had this

73
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,040
Speaker 1: picture on his office wall. How do we know althose

74
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 1: same people are now saying, wow, Nick must have an

75
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,400
Speaker 1: amazing photographic memory, because because the picture that's just emerged

76
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,919
Speaker 1: in the last few weeks is almost identical to the recreation,

77
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 1: which is something that I did with a TV company

78
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 1: for a show a few years by. All right, we'll

79
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,200
Speaker 1: tell us about the Calvine story itself, Nick, well as

80
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 1: as as I think I heard in the intro. I mean,

81
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 1: it was it was basically two people out in Scotland

82
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 1: in Calvine near Petlockery on fourth of August fourth, nineteen

83
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:27,480
Speaker 1: ninety And that's a very significant and interesting date because

84
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,720
Speaker 1: it's just two days after Sadam Hussein invaded Kuwait. So

85
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,560
Speaker 1: obviously that's a big part of the story because obviously

86
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 1: one of the big theory is here, is that these

87
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 1: people stumbled across some secret prototype spy plane or some

88
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,240
Speaker 1: other military platform. And of course the timing, I mean,

89
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,839
Speaker 1: you know, we're always taught in the Ministry Defense not

90
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 1: to believe in coincidences, and here we are two days

91
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,840
Speaker 1: after the invasion of Kwait and this happens. But they

92
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:06,200
Speaker 1: saw this thing, huge diamond shaped craft. It was either

93
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 1: silent or there was a low sound, sort of low

94
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,320
Speaker 1: frequency humming sound that you often hear associated with some

95
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:22,040
Speaker 1: of the flying triangle sightings, and this thing. There were

96
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,800
Speaker 1: a couple of military jets in the area, one close,

97
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 1: one much further away, and they said that it was

98
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,800
Speaker 1: like doing low level passes, as if they weren't quite

99
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,039
Speaker 1: sure whether it was trying to intercept this object or

100
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,680
Speaker 1: whether in some sense it was escorting this object. Again,

101
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 1: that's an important part of determining what we're dealing with here.

102
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 1: Suddenly this thing just disappears vertically straight up, it's gone,

103
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 1: and they're like wow, And they contacted the local newspaper,

104
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 1: the Scottish Daily Record. There were six photos that they'd

105
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,720
Speaker 1: shot off. We acquired them at the Ministry of the

106
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 1: Fair and it's a very complex story. But for some

107
00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:11,080
Speaker 1: reason the newspaper never ran the story and the photos disappeared.

108
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: Now did you know or do you know the former

109
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 1: British journalist David Clark who apparently has re emerged these photos, Well,

110
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,360
Speaker 1: he's one of the he's one of the uthologists. He

111
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 1: used to be in the British UFO Research Association. And

112
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 1: I think there's the six or nine of them in

113
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 1: this group called UAP Media who claim to have acquired

114
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 1: this from Craig Lindsey. But as I say, it's all

115
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,200
Speaker 1: at the moment until the Ministry of Defense actually comment,

116
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of people are pressurizing them to do so.

117
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 1: But until they do, we really we don't really know

118
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,640
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with here. Is this a controversial story, Nick, oh, hugely,

119
00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:01,679
Speaker 1: hugely controversial. This caused a diplomatic row between the US

120
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:07,120
Speaker 1: and the UK because it took place against the background

121
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,560
Speaker 1: of allegations that there was a secret U US spy

122
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:16,840
Speaker 1: plane codeenamed Aurora being test flown in the UK, and

123
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,000
Speaker 1: this whole if you got tangled up with the UFOs.

124
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 1: We asked the US intelligence community, are you flying something

125
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 1: like this in our space? They said, no, we're not.

126
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,280
Speaker 1: They asked us, do you have some sort of secret

127
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:40,080
Speaker 1: prototype triangular craft? And that was interesting because it showed

128
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 1: that the US was actively investigating this at a time

129
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,120
Speaker 1: they said they weren't, but then we didn't or some

130
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 1: of US questioned the US denials about this, and the

131
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: Secretary of the Air Force at the time, Donald Rice,

132
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 1: was absolutely furious because he took this as the British

133
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,440
Speaker 1: implying that he had misled Congress. So here we were

134
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:08,520
Speaker 1: at the Ministry of Defense inadvertently sabotaging the special relationship.

135
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,560
Speaker 1: Was this one of your big cases that you saw

136
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,680
Speaker 1: at the Ministry of Defense? Yes, it was. Now, In fact,

137
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,959
Speaker 1: it was my predecessor because my time on the UFO

138
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,959
Speaker 1: program was ninety one to ninety four, So this this

139
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: incident took place one year before I took up my post,

140
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 1: so I didn't do the investigation at the time, but

141
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 1: my goodness, I inherited the political fallout. I bet it

142
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 1: was a big case. And the mystery. You know, I

143
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,600
Speaker 1: sprinkled a few breadcrumbs in my first book in nineteen

144
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,719
Speaker 1: ninety six, and people are still following the trail. Now.

145
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,840
Speaker 1: You mentioned you had a picture on the wall of

146
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: this What did it look like? Oh, it's it. It

147
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,200
Speaker 1: looked like the the what I just described. Absolutely yes,

148
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:03,079
Speaker 1: and it was posticized image. And my head of division

149
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: convinced himself, because he was a skeptic on UFOs, he

150
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 1: convinced himself that this must be the secret US aircraft,

151
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,760
Speaker 1: you know, the Aurora or whatever child name one wants

152
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 1: to use. And so this thing had been on our

153
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,160
Speaker 1: wall for about two or three years, and then one

154
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,000
Speaker 1: day I came back from leave and it was gone.

155
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 1: And I said, hey, where's where's our picture gone? And

156
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,800
Speaker 1: one of my colleagues said, well, go and see Go

157
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 1: and see the head of division, and I'm like, boss,

158
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 1: and he's like, I've locked it in my safe along

159
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 1: with all the top secret documents, because I don't think

160
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 1: even in a secure building that people not read into

161
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,520
Speaker 1: the program should even be seeing this. And it disappeared

162
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 1: into his safe. He retired, the Ministry Defense declassified and

163
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 1: released a lot of my old files. I thought, well,

164
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,079
Speaker 1: maybe the pictures are going to resurface, and they never did. Nick.

165
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: Are you bound by some nondisclosure agreement or some secrecy agreement? Oh?

166
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely yes, still yes, I don't know what you know.

167
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 1: The situation seems to vary from nation to nation. But

168
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,319
Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom, and even though I live in

169
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: the US and have done for ten years, it's the

170
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,440
Speaker 1: UK law that binds me on this. We have something

171
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 1: called the Official Secrets Act and it is draconian. It

172
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 1: binds you for life. You can't I mean, the joke is,

173
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,760
Speaker 1: you can't even tell someone what color the wall is

174
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,480
Speaker 1: painted in the Ministry of Defense canteen. They probably wouldn't

175
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 1: prosecute you for that, but the way the legislation is written,

176
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,680
Speaker 1: they could. I've known you for sixteen years, Nick, and

177
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 1: this is the first time that I felt that you've

178
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,959
Speaker 1: held back something. Well, you know, I try and be open,

179
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 1: but every now and then I hit something. There's been

180
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 1: a couple of other things, like on Randelsham for example,

181
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 1: where I've had to circle back with my old bosses

182
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 1: and say, hey, can we talk about this now or

183
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 1: is it still? And you know I've gotten gotten instructions,

184
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 1: so you know, I part of it is the law,

185
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 1: the Official Secrets Act. What would they do any loyalty?

186
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 1: What would they do to you? In terms of law?

187
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,240
Speaker 1: Would they come and arrest you? I think it's unlikely.

188
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, in reality, there would be two tests of

189
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 1: that that they would have to apply. The first is

190
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,320
Speaker 1: would it be in the public interest? And generally the

191
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 1: answer is no, because you just draw attention to the

192
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 1: thing that you're trying to hide. The other thing is

193
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 1: is there a realistic chance of securing a prosecution? And

194
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 1: the answer is almost certainly no. But but you know,

195
00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 1: it's it's not just the law, it's my loyalty. When

196
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 1: I signed that Official Secrets Act, I gave an oath

197
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 1: you know, for queen and country now for king and country,

198
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 1: of course, and that means a lot to me. But

199
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,160
Speaker 1: that means a lot to me, And so I don't,

200
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, even if I thought I could get away

201
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,920
Speaker 1: with a few things, I don't. I take my oath

202
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,719
Speaker 1: of loyalty to my country. Seriously. Is it true that

203
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,920
Speaker 1: the two witnesses, the hikers, their names will not be

204
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 1: revealed until twenty seventy six. That's true. Yeah, oh my god, Nick,

205
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: that's fifty four years from now. I know, I know, well,

206
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, I'll be over a hundred doing this show.

207
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,800
Speaker 1: I promise you. I promise you. I'll come back on

208
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll discuss it from from whatever, you know,

209
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 1: aged care facility. Yeah, it'll be like this. I want

210
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 1: to bring up with Nick Pope, with our special guest. Nick,

211
00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,520
Speaker 1: come on and then I tell you what I'll say.

212
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 1: You know, George, I forget even working for the Ministry

213
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,600
Speaker 1: of Defends, so I can't of help. That's funny. Are

214
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,080
Speaker 1: you allowed to give your opinion on what you think

215
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,960
Speaker 1: this is? Yeah? I guess I can give an opinion.

216
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there's not much middle ground with something like this.

217
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean there are I think three or four popular

218
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 1: theories doing the rounds. The first is that it was

219
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 1: it's a clever hoax of some sort that The second

220
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 1: is that it is something conventional, like like a blimpoor

221
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: toe target, but just seen from a photographed from a

222
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 1: very unusual angle. The third is that it's some sort

223
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 1: of secret prototype aircraft or drone, and the fourth is

224
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,080
Speaker 1: that it's it's something else, maybe even something extraterrestrial. And

225
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm I'm you know, somewhere. So, I mean,

226
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 1: I go back to the point about the timing two

227
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 1: days after the invasion of Hugh Wade, and I think

228
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 1: that kind of inclines me more towards the secret prototype

229
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 1: aircraft theory. But we at the Ministry Defense, we looked

230
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 1: at this very carefully. Our intelligence community imagery analysts looked

231
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 1: at it, both in the Defense Intelligence Staff and in

232
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,960
Speaker 1: the Joint Air Reconnaissance and Intelligence Center, and they said this,

233
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a real image. It's whatever this

234
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 1: thing is. It's about seventy five feet across. You know.

235
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 1: They were impressed, and we did not rule out the

236
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial hypothesis. Excellent. Are you aware of Abbylobe from Harvard physicist? Yes,

237
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's one of the great thought

238
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,880
Speaker 1: leaders at the moment on this. He's bridging the gap

239
00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 1: between I think science and you he research. I mean,

240
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 1: he was already of course internationally famous physicist astrophysicist from

241
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 1: his work at Harvard, but I think he became a

242
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 1: household name when Umuamua and the controversy about that funny

243
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 1: shaped from three thousand foot space rock, which he says

244
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 1: is not a rock. Yeah, he said that both in

245
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 1: terms of its its shape, its movement, it's trajectory, it's

246
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 1: acceleration a number of I think he named seven different

247
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 1: parameters which he said he suggested a sort of degree

248
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: of artificiality here. Maybe this thing is a light sale,

249
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 1: Maybe this thing is some sort of derelict ship from

250
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 1: from somewhere else. And you know, if this was anyone

251
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 1: else saying that, maybe people would laugh. But when a

252
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 1: respected Harvard astrophysicist it comes out with this, and you know,

253
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,560
Speaker 1: publishes peer reviewed papers and things. I'm actually he started

254
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,400
Speaker 1: up this organization called the Galileo Project, which is looking

255
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 1: for similar interstellar objects but also taking a look at

256
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: UFO data. And I'm actually, along with lu Alsondo and

257
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,600
Speaker 1: Chris Mellan some others, I am one of the research affiliates.

258
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 1: So we're not scientists people people like Chris Mellan, Lue Alexando,

259
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 1: and myself. But but we're in ave lobed organization in

260
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 1: a sort of advisory capacity, and if we can add

261
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 1: any value through our government backgrounds, then we'll do so.

262
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,920
Speaker 1: And I think what avy Lobe is doing is amazing

263
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you saw. Last year he

264
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 1: was involved in a talk at the Washington National Cathedral

265
00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 1: with the head of NASA, with the Director of National Intelligance,

266
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:07,159
Speaker 1: Avril Haynes, with David Wilkinson, ath theologian, with Jeff Bezos.

267
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: So Av is really blazing a trail here. Listen to

268
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am

269
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

270
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: for more