1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: I do certainly think we're living through a period of 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: elevated risk and that earthquakes don't come all of a sudden. 3 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: There are tremors in the same way that people became 4 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: anxious in August of two thousand and seven. This is 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: a moment when there should be increased anxiety. Hello and 6 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: welcome back to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings you a 7 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: global economy entering choppy waters. Interest rates are going up, 8 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: inflation is not yet really coming down. Households and countries 9 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: that import most of their energy are facing a tough winter, 10 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: and financial markets they're all over the place, though mainly down. 11 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: Isn't this all, as Larry Summers suggested? There possibly a 12 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: warm up exercise for another global financial crisis, or merely 13 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: turbulence on the way to that much hope for soft landing. 14 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: Who the hell knows, but whatever is going on, we 15 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: do know the UK has been right in the crosshairs, 16 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: with a new Conservative Prime Minister, Liz Trust, facing wild 17 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: swings in the value of the pound in the past 18 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: two weeks, and I'm watering increases in borrowing costs that 19 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: will ripple through the UK economy and society for months 20 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: to come. Just to give you a sense of it, 21 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: if you remortgage your home this summer in the UK, 22 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: you might have got alone with an interest rate of 23 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: around two point three percent that would be fixed for 24 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: five years. The rate on the average five year fixed 25 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: today is closer to six and quite a lot of 26 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: that rise has come just since the government unveiled its 27 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: plan to borrow more to pay for tax cuts for 28 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: businesses and high earners under the banner of spurring growth. 29 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: So we're going to take a closer look at the 30 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: UK in this first episode of the series and ask 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: a question whether the dramas that have afflicted Liz Truss 32 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: are a cautionary tale or more a sneak preview of 33 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: what might lie in store for others. JP Morgan's chief 34 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: European economist, Malcolm Barr thinks investors were reacting not so 35 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: much to one bad plan, but a long term systematic 36 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: weakening in Britain's key institutions. I'll talk to him about 37 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: that in a few minutes later on. We'll also have 38 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: a report from Liverpool, where cost of living woes for 39 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: doc workers are getting in the way of any hopes 40 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: that post Brexit that city could once again play a 41 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: major role in global trade. But first, a quick taste 42 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: of what it's been like to be in Birmingham this 43 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: week for the Conservative Party's annual conference. Was supposed to 44 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: be a coming out party for the new prime minister, 45 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: where she about her radical vision for growth and generally 46 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: reveled in getting the top job. But at least one 47 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: part of that radical plan had already been junked in 48 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: the face of overwhelming opposition before the delegates even arrived 49 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: in Birmingham, and many of her own MPs, amid the 50 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: market turmoil, opted not to come at all. Alas Bloomberg, 51 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: UK Government reporter Kitty Donaldson was not so fortunate. She 52 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: was there for every minute. You could call this Conservative 53 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: conference a Roana coaster for Liz Truss, but that implies 54 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: had been high points. Most of the time. It felt 55 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: like she was plunging into free full I spent this 56 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: week talking to Tory MP's cabinet ministers and activists and 57 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: it's not been pretty. They were a cross anyway because 58 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister hadn't united the party after a leadership win. 59 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: One MP said she's been behaving like she won a 60 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: landslide at a general election. Other MP's were also hopping 61 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: mad about last week's market turmoil and the damage abolishing 62 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: the top rate of income tax did to the party's reputation. 63 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: That's because Labor can now present the Tories is out 64 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: of touch and favoring the wealthy. In the end, the 65 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: U turn was the worst of both worlds. Trust. According 66 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: to some MPs, it's now weak and the damage is 67 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: done at the parties and the fringes around the conference. 68 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: Even the Cabinet were angry and spelled out the implications 69 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: of Liz Truss's policy reverse ferret. They said to me, 70 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: she's now so damaged she'll only be able to get 71 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: very little of her agenda through Parliament. That includes stuff 72 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: such as planning reform. Meanwhile, two very big beasts, former 73 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: Cabinet ministers, Michael Gove and Grant Shaps, we're going around 74 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: having secret squirrel conversations and separately drumming rebellion. Liz Trust 75 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: was also in submarine mode, disappearing from public view while 76 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: her aids limited the damage. I actually had a drink 77 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: with Liz Trust on Monday night and she was quite chipper, 78 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: making jokes but also being clear she had a vision 79 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: of economic success that needs to be judged in the 80 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: longer term. The trouble for Trust, she's now isolated. Some 81 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: of her MP's even talked about a cult at the 82 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: center of the party, and it's largely a cult of two. 83 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: That's Liz Trust herself and her chancellor Quasi quoteng h. 84 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: In her speech on Wednesday, which actually went much better 85 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: than many suspected it would, Liz Trust talked about an 86 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: antique growth coalition and we need an economically sound and 87 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: secure United Kingdom and that will mean challenging those who 88 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: tried to stop growth. I will not allow the anti 89 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: growth coalition to hold us back. Now that may sound 90 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: like a band that should be in one of the 91 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: second stages at Glastonbury, but what it actually means is 92 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: anyone who disagrees with Trust and Quarteng's very specific brand 93 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: of tourism, almost like Trust hasn't learned a single lesson 94 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: from this week. In order to get voters on side, 95 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: never mind conservative MPs, political parties need to offer a 96 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: positive vision and not set themselves up with even more 97 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: enemies becoming. Weeks for his Trust are going to be 98 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: fractious at the very best. So Malcolm bart is head 99 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: of European Economics for JP Morgan here in London, and 100 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: as I said at the start of the program, he 101 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: wrote a rather eye catching piece just as all hell 102 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: was breaking loose in the financial markets for the UK 103 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: the other day entitled the Fiscal Event, Brexit and silly Walks. Malcolm, 104 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: thanks very much for joining us. Not in that piece, 105 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: you basically say that the financial markets were not only 106 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: doubtful about this government's promises, but they were sort of 107 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: structurally doubtful about the state of in UK institutions now 108 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: and you know that was that's rooted in policy shifts 109 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: going back many years. So just talk us through it, 110 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: because of course usually a lot of the sort of 111 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: research that comes out of places like JP Morgan is 112 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: quite short term, and you were making a very very 113 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: long term and a rather damning argument. Well, thanks, Stephanie. 114 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: I mean that the basic idea which I've been trying 115 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: to investigating that piece is really that there have been 116 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: a set of changes going on for a while which 117 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: have been tending to create more space ease for policymakers 118 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: to steer off the straight and narrow. Some of the 119 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: guardrails have been being removed over time, and I don't 120 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: think this is a new process. I think it goes 121 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: back beyond Brexit. But Brexit certainly made the process more intense, 122 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: and there's a result. I think that you have to 123 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: have that little bit of history in mind when you 124 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: ask yourself the question, well, hang on, the trust administration 125 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: has said we are going to deal with medium term sustainability, 126 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: but why why were markets not prepared to take them 127 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: on trust? And I think that that is really because, 128 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: as I say, over time, I think a lot of 129 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: things have been changing which really have made an accident 130 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: like this a lot more likely to happen. I mean, 131 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: it's funny because it's the kind of analysis that one 132 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: would usually hear of an emerging market economy when people 133 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: talk about weaknesses and institutions or even the basic rule 134 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: of law. I mean, you list it's quite deaf data. 135 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: You listed the things that were considered to be, as 136 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: you say, the sort of guard rails that helped us 137 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: sort of push policy choices towards the orthodoxy even when 138 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: you had unorthodox politicians. Independent central bank, independent monitoring of 139 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: the fiscal choices are technically proficient, and independent civil service 140 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: functioning parliamentary oversight, a respected judiciary. When you think of Brexit, 141 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: the sort of mayhem in politics of post Brexit years 142 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: under Boris Johnson and others, more or less all of 143 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: those things have been undermined to some extent. I think 144 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: that's right. And it can sound like you're making a 145 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: very sort of party political point sometimes when you're discussing this, 146 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: and I really actually think this is a point which 147 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: isn't about whether you're from the left or from the right, 148 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: or whether you're firmly in the middle. I think it's 149 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: really just about understanding how policy is it. So, I 150 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: mean I was I was asking myself that the question, 151 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: what is it that's different about what's what's been happening 152 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: in the last week or two weeks compared to some 153 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: of the sort of iconic UK debarkles that we all 154 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: think about in the past. You know, the I m 155 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: F loan, the exit from the e r M, the 156 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: financial crisis. You know, what, is this just another one 157 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: of those or is it different? And I would argue 158 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: it is a bit different. And the reason it's a 159 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: bit different is I think if you go back to 160 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: the seventy six I m F, if you look at 161 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: the e r M exit and even that was Sorry, 162 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: just for those who don't remember the finer points of 163 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: exchange rate policy in Europe, that was when we joined 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: the exchange rate system in Europe that came before the 165 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: euro and then had to spectaclic spectacular exit it because 166 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: the markets decided we just couldn't sustain the rate we 167 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: were at. That's right if you've been covering the UK, 168 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: these these events are rather tattooed on the back of 169 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: your eyeballs as the kind of big events where we 170 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: really messed up. But I think there is a difference 171 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: between them and now, and I think that the difference 172 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,599 Speaker 1: is that those failings were worth the failings of institutions 173 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: that were actually trying to do what was quite orthodox 174 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: or of their time. You know, if you look at 175 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: what the Labor government was doing in seventy six, it 176 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: might look a little bit odd now, but by the 177 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: standards of the time, they were doing things that were 178 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: very much seen in other administrations around Europe. You look 179 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: at the e r M, you know, there was a 180 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: sense in which the UK was like a lot of 181 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: other countries, just trying to figure out what policy regime 182 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: you needed to have in place when you moved away 183 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: from monetarism, you know, so, I think again kind of 184 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: orthodox the financial crisis very much the UK was doing 185 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: what other countries were doing. I think what's different this 186 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: time around is that, really what we're seeing is that 187 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: the changes that have been going on for a while 188 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: all have given politicians room for an experimentalism that really 189 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: we wouldn't we we didn't see through any of those episodes. 190 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: It's difficult in my mind to imagine a similar set 191 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: of errors having been made by any incoming administration over 192 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: really the last fifteen to twenty years, in the sense 193 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: of being able to present policy in a way that 194 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: was so roundly condemned in both the political space and 195 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: by the market reaction. More fundamentally, I think the UK 196 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: is in a state where, looking over the coming years, 197 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: I think that we are at more risk of events 198 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: like this occurring unless we begin to repair some of 199 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 1: the institutional changes that you mentioned before, improving parliamentary oversight 200 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: to some extent, making it have a little bit more teeth, 201 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: making sure that politicians are actually respecting and listening to 202 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: independent voices like the Civil Service and the Office for 203 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:14,239 Speaker 1: Budget Responsibility. Everything you say, Malcolm, could be quite reassuring 204 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: to people listening in the rest of the world, because 205 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: it sounds like the market ructions and the really startling 206 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: spike in borrowing costs and they're feeling for a while 207 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: anyway that things were sort of out of control. Is 208 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: a UK problem, it's it's it's something that's that's result 209 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: of UK policy mistakes. The government would make the argument, 210 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: and some others would make the argument that no, the 211 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: UK has perhaps got a few things wrong, or it 212 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: has been the first country to face a more challenging world, 213 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: but it won't be the last because the financial markets 214 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: not wanting to borrow at such cheap rates to governments anymore, 215 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: and inflation being a difficult problem to fix without hurting 216 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: your economy. Well, those two challenges are going to face 217 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: every government in the next few months and maybe years. 218 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: I think there are some lessons to be taken from this. 219 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: We have a very very big energy shock which the 220 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: global economy is trying to digest, and an energy shock 221 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: basically means that those who are energy consumers are going 222 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: to be worse off and the benefits again to the 223 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: energy producers. And that is as central bankers are very 224 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: fond of telling us that is a unavoidable real adjustment, 225 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: and that is out there. I think what the UK 226 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: experience does tell you is that when you try to 227 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: address that, you must make sure that whatever you're doing 228 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: has some clear political consensus that can be sustained behind it. 229 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: In an environment where you have an inner energy shock, 230 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: reducing taxation for those at the top end of the 231 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: income distribution is not just questionable economics, but it's extremely 232 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: bad politics in the sense of maintaining some kind of 233 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: coherent support for the policies you're putting in place. So 234 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: I think I think it's absolutely fair to say that 235 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: there is a common component. But if you look at 236 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: markets around Western Europe, there has been nothing of the 237 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: same sort of sequence of events as we've seen from 238 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: in the UK over the last couple of weeks, and 239 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: so I do think that there is a component of this, 240 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: which is some some chickens which the UK you know, 241 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: has been incubating, coming home to roost. There is one 242 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: fundamental feature of that of that crazy week for the UK, 243 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: which is likely to have some residents in other parts 244 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: of the world, and that's the big rise in long 245 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: term interest rates. The borrowing cast attached to these io 246 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: use that governments have, the bombs have, but also interest 247 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: rates attached to mortgages. Larry Summers has talked about feeling 248 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: a little bit like two thousand and seven that you're 249 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: starting to get many sort of explosions and problems in 250 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: certain areas can Aias in the coal mine of this 251 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: much broader issue of the world having to adjust to 252 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: much higher interest rates potentially for several years if central 253 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: banks can't get inflation under control. Well, I think lingering 254 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: in the background of all of this is a very 255 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: fundamental question, which is is the inflation process stable. If 256 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: we were having this conversation probably three years ago, we 257 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: would have been reflecting on how difficult advanced economies had 258 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: found it to make sure inflation was not too low. 259 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: Wind forward a few years and here we are not 260 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: just looking the issue of an increase in inflation, but 261 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: really are quite profound said of questions around whether central 262 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: banks really are still in control of the inflation process. 263 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: And so I think I think we need to recognize 264 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: that that was all part of the backdrop against which 265 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: the you know, the markets responded in the way that 266 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: they did, um you know, to to the mini budget 267 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: in the UK, and these are uniquely challenging times, and 268 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right to say some of the adjustments in 269 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: markets that we've been seeing have been brutal as that 270 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: has been been occurring. Now, I'll admit here that there 271 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: is a bit of me that says, as much as 272 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: one has to be careful what you wish for, if 273 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: you had said prior to the pandemic, you can have 274 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 1: a choice of an unemployment problem or an inflation problem 275 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: on the other side of this, which one you think 276 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: we'd be We'd rather have a which are we better 277 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: placed to be able to deal with. I think most economists, 278 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: this one included, would have said I'd rather have the 279 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: inflation problem, thank you, because I think that that we 280 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: may have both in Well, yes, you're absolutely right to 281 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: some extent. You might not get to choose you You're 282 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: just getting to choose the balance of both, right, But 283 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: I think if you if at the moment, I think 284 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: it's fair to say, yes, policy may have been too 285 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: easy for too long. Yes, it may be the case 286 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: that what was originally thought of as an energy shock 287 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: was actually something more fundamental than that. But I personally 288 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: think that over time we have a policy making framework 289 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: that can response to that we can do without the 290 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: sorts of messiness that we got in the UK mini 291 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: budget along the way. I would be less confident about 292 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: making that statement if we were coming out of the 293 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: pandemic and economies were extremely weak and we were worrying 294 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: about getting growth back up again and trying to get 295 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: unemployment down, because there I would be wondering exactly what 296 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: we could do to make that happen. So, yes, it's 297 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: a problem. Yes it's not just the UK issue, but 298 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: there is a bit of a sense in my mind 299 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: at least, that this is probably the problem we'd have 300 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: chosen to have faced given the sequence of events that 301 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: we've seen over the last few years. Well, you've taken 302 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: us to a to a welcome, rather positive endpoint, So 303 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: I definitely I don't think we should we should go 304 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: too far further down the road. But those who are 305 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: listening carefully at the beginning may have a nagging question 306 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: in their mind as to what the reference to silly 307 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: walks referred to in the title of your Peace, So 308 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: maybe you should explain it. So for those who those 309 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: of your listeners who've heard of Monty Python, there is 310 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: many people, but well, Monty Python a sort of very 311 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: archetypal seventh c. Slash eighties British common the and one 312 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: of their most iconic creations was the Ministry for Silly Walks, 313 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: wherein the individuals would make their way from A to 314 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: b in all sorts of entertaining ways. That John Clees 315 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: was the archetypal demonstrator of that, and I've always thought 316 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: that there was something uniquely British about that, in the 317 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: sense that you would still get from A to B, 318 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: but there would be some amount of entertainment to be 319 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: had in the quirkiness of the of the roots and 320 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: the manner of the motion, and so you know, I 321 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: think that there was there was always a sense of 322 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: looking at the UK that there was all sorts of 323 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: quirkiness and idiosyncrasy to our politics, to our legal system. 324 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: But international investors always thought, look, this is all very 325 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: interesting and colorful, but the destiny that the route from 326 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: A to B is ultimately a route from where you 327 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: are to a centerport destination. And I think that, you know, 328 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: what I was trying to get get at in in 329 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: the Silly Walks reference was a little bit that international 330 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: investors are just beginning to wonder whether we're silly as 331 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: opposed to whether this is just an entertaining walk. And 332 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: of course the idea of going from A to B 333 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: feels particularly challenging today because it happens to be the 334 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: day of a rail strike in the UK. But let's 335 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: say we do eventually get their Malcolm bar thank you 336 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: very much, my pleasure. With inflation at nearly ten percent 337 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: and many key workers being offered pay increases that are 338 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: a fraction of that, the cost of living is a 339 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: massive issue for households and for businesses across Britain. It's 340 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: also getting in the way of the government's grand vision 341 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: of the country's economic future. Freed from the European Union, 342 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: our supply chains are Brendan Murray found all of those 343 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: tensions and more on a recent trip across the Mercy. 344 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: I've been there knocking round thee of her pity For yes, 345 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: I'm on the London stage. It's hide a boat song, 346 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: Get two people on alf on Lowden, dischargeon you know 347 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: on the just waited the next bolt, and then usually 348 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: each hour. When Liverpool residents claim that their seaside town 349 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: in northern England is where the modern world began, they're 350 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: not exaggerating global trade crossed its wharfs in the late 351 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: nineteenth century. This was the launchpad for the British Empire, 352 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: the home of the shipping line that operated the Titanic, 353 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: and the birthplace of the most popular UK export, the Beatles. 354 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: One constant here has been the docks, seven miles of 355 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: them along the Mersey River towards the Irish Sea. But 356 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: Liverpool's port is in the midst of the worst labor 357 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: unrest in a quarter century, a fight over the future 358 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: of good jobs for generations of families like Ferry Dock 359 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: hand Brian Thompson's So in these thirty five years, what 360 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: have you seen changed for the better for worse here 361 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: the border Liverpool. Well, when the starts of the it 362 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: was like a big bus station. Every bus comes to 363 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: the pier head, every bush at the pier head on 364 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: the front of it. Now there's no bus station here, 365 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, that's all gone. What do put on the 366 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: bus stations about? What you really do you build the 367 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: city in thest fifteen years you know this buildings down 368 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: the next to them as you've found each building that's 369 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: a new building. You've got the Museum of Liverpool just 370 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: strolling on the ice hands side, so it's it's a 371 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: nice welcome the city sucome to, you know. At the 372 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: moment though, the dispute on the city's northern docks involved 373 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: some six d dock workers who have been on strike 374 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: for the past few weeks. The doctors here have had 375 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: a long history of ups and downs with their bosses. 376 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: Here's Katie fox Hotus, a lecturer and employment relations at 377 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: Sheffield University Management School. Liverpool historically was always one of 378 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: the sort of most militant groups of doctor trade union 379 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: this in the UK are really sort of well known story, 380 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: very politically inclined and strongly organized. All of that began 381 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: to change with the ending of the National Dock Labor 382 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: Scheme in the late nineteen eighties and that laid the 383 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: groundwork for this twenty eight month long strike in the 384 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: mid nineteen nineties known as the Doctors Strike from as 385 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: fox Hotas explains, basically, the entire workforce was fired twenty 386 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: five years ago and new workers were hired through non 387 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: union agencies and it was quite a bad employment situations, 388 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: he said. But something happened over the past decade that 389 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: turned the tide back in favor of the unions in Liverpool. 390 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: We've really seen over the past decade really this sort 391 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: of renaissance of union organizing on the docks in Liverpool, 392 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: and it's been a slow, arduous process of really building 393 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: the union up from nothing to the fighting force it 394 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 1: is today that has a most a percent union density. Yeah, 395 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: you can see all that history today hanging on the 396 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: walls of a Liverpool pub called the Casa, which was 397 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: founded by one of the workmen who was fired back in. 398 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: Jackie Richardson manages the place. It's a community center where 399 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: union members gathered for meetings and to get financial help 400 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: in these tough economic times. It's a nonprofit organization. It's 401 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: a social justice center and like a community hop. It's 402 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: known as like a trades union bar. So the majodity 403 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: of the trades unions meet here. It's a strike day 404 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: goes from here and and a lot of the you know, 405 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: the unions of the Philly Phillies to he is about 406 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: the regular meetings each from everyone and then people are 407 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: struggling so much. You know, if someone goes in, it's 408 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, through these doors sort of face all for help. 409 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: If we can't help them, will try and point them inside. 410 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: Erection of someone, or they'll try and find someone that 411 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: can't help them. What Richards hears from the Dockers is 412 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: that they're trying to prevent their livelihoods from going in reverse. 413 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: Their employer, peel Ports, says it's offering a fair pay 414 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: rise of more than eight percent and that the strikers 415 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: are threatening the local economy. That's the challenge across Britain 416 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: for the new UK Prime Minister, Liz Trusts, whose government 417 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: is charged with reviving the UK economy in a way 418 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't unsettle financial markets, hurt the middle class or 419 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: alienate her political base. Around Liverpool, public sympathy has tilted 420 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: toward the Dockers. Here's Brian Thompson again. I think you 421 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: know that the incestrates and the inflation, people's money delusion 422 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: the gold backwards. So do you want to just stay 423 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: level the I don't think they They want to be 424 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: geedy and they don't want any excellent money. It's just 425 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: like to keep level of inflation, which he'll I think 426 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: they've got advice for that. You know. With its connections 427 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: to trade routes west to the Americas, Liverpool is well 428 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: positioned to capitalize on Brexit, which was supposed to untether 429 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: Britain from the European Union so we can thrive under 430 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: new trade deals in the global econom to me, but 431 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: Brexit's promise so far has mainly meant more paperwork for 432 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: local businesses rather than newfound prosperity. Here's Elena and Theso 433 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: of the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce explaining how the city 434 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: leverages its rich maritime history with the need to modernize 435 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: after Brexit. I think it is a little bit of 436 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: a mix of both because obviously you have to move 437 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: on with technology tally say sum paperless trade frictions trade 438 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: and I think we have a really good cluster of 439 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: logistic capabilities in the region. Quite a few phone members 440 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: are well prepared to cope with the changes post Brexit, 441 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: postco with everybody is prepared to accept the mole atility 442 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: for the trade supply chains for example, and I think 443 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: Liverpool has to continue to play this vital role in 444 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: the north of the UK to be seen as as 445 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: a really good platform for trade links with all the 446 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: overseas global networks that you have. For the doctors, they 447 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: just want a fair piece of Liverpool's future and the 448 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: signs of progress are rising among the scrap yards and 449 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: vacant lots along the waterfront. What are you doing here? 450 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: So you tell me? As we walked through the museum 451 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: here why On a recent weekday morning, tourists and school 452 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: kids waited outside the Maritime Museum and bustled in and 453 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: out of the shops in the redeveloped Albert Docks, a 454 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: crown jewel of the Industrial Age when it opened in 455 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century. A five million pounds stadium is 456 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: being built near the banks of the River Mercy to 457 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: be the new home of Everton, Liverpool's second most famous 458 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: team in English Premier League. You got a hell of 459 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: a lot of statist COMMENTI in Liverpool. You know they 460 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: want to take a ferry across the Mercy. Did Yes, 461 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: it's it's one of the book list things you'd you'd 462 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: be surprised, you know already people have just been actual 463 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: before goes on in Liverpool. I'm Brendan Murray for Bloomberg News, 464 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: Torn in every Soul, fairy Cross, the Mersey has this land. 465 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: Well that's it for this rather British episode of Stephanomics. 466 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: I'm escaping to Washington next week. In the meantime, do 467 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: please rate the show if you like it, and check 468 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: out the Bloomberg News website for more economic news and 469 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: views on the global economy. You should also follow at 470 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: economics on Twitter. This episode is produced by Summer Saddi 471 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: and Magnus Hendrickson, with special thanks to Kitty Donaldson, James Woolcock, 472 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: Malcolm Barr, and Brendan Murray. Mike Sasso is the executive 473 00:29:53,640 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: producer of Stephanomics, the