1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Everybody looks forward to Thanksgiving. 2 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: I know we do, and I do the whole nine yards, 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: the turkey, that dressing, the cranberry sauce, the sauteed green beans. 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: I invite everybody over and we have the happiest time. 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: And I want those memories for my children, John, David 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: and Lucy. How can something so wonderful for so many 7 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: Americans go so wrong? How wrong? Well, let's just say 8 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: mom and Dad get murdered and Mommy's head gets severed 9 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: and ends up boiling in a pot on the stove. 10 00:00:50,400 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: How much more wrong can it go? How did it 11 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: all go wrong? Take a listen to our friend at 12 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: crime online dot Com, Dave Mac. Joel Guys Senior and 13 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: Lisa Guy were preparing to enjoy their retirement in just 14 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: two weeks. The pair were planning to move from Knoxville, Tennessee, 15 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: to Joel guys hometown of Sir Gowansville, about seventy seven 16 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: miles northeast of Knoxville. Guy had recently bought the home 17 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: of his deceased mother. The Thanksgiving holiday was just ahead, 18 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: and plans were in the works for a major family 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: gathering for Christmas. But after the Thanksgiving holiday, when Lisa 20 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: Guy didn't show back up at work, her co workers 21 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: were worried. They tried calling, they didn't get her, so 22 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: they asked police to do a welfare check. That's how 23 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: it all started. You were just listening to Dave matt 24 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: our friend from crime online dot com, but with me 25 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: an all star panel, and you know them well. First 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: of all, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags 27 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: and host of a Brandy program Live with Doctor Wendy 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: on k c b Q Radio, is at Wendy Patrick 29 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: PhD dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us 30 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at 31 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com. Stephen Lampley, detective author of 32 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: upcoming book Twelve and Murder on Amazon at Stephen Lampley 33 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: dot com. We often speak to medical examiners for various jurisdictions, 34 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: but how often is there one guy, one doctor in 35 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: charge of an entire state with us. The medical examiner 36 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: for the state of Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher at mathkpathcaremd 37 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: dot com. But first a special guest joining us. It's 38 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: Yvonne Thomas out of WBI R ten News in Knoxville. Yvonne, 39 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: it's so great to have you with us. I wish 40 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: we were meeting under better circumstances. But when I hear 41 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: double murder, I got to know all the facts. Tell me. 42 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: First of all, I'm imagining myself going to a crime scene, 43 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: and I take it all in. At every red light, 44 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: I look around, at every turn, I check it out. 45 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: I see the grocery stores, I see the buildings, I 46 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: see if anybody's running up to me at the corner 47 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: trying to sell me crack cocaine. Tell me about this area, 48 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: because everything I found out that this was what do 49 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: we say, West Knoxville, Jack West Knoxville where all the 50 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: rich people live, which means low crime, probably because they 51 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: have all these private security guards rolling around. But tell 52 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: me about the area, Evan Thomas, Fancy, you're absolutely correct. 53 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: I mean, imagine this a beautiful, nice neighborhood. Golden View 54 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Lane is where the home sat, where the crime did 55 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: take place, but a neighborhood where you could freely walk 56 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: your dogs. You knew your neighbors, and can you imagine 57 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: them coming to this area where crime really just does it? 58 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: Happen very often, and neighbors look outside, they see caution 59 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: tape everywhere, they see police, they see detectives wearing has 60 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: Matt gear going into that home. It was undescribable, unfathomable 61 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: for many of those that were watching this and trying 62 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: to figure out what in the world was going on. 63 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: Evan Thomas, you just got my attention when you said 64 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: has Matt gear. Guys, this is a beautiful area of Knoxville. 65 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: First time I went to Knoxville, Jackie was for the 66 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: World's Fair and it was incredible. I think I was 67 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: in law school at the time and took a weekend 68 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: and went to Knoxville. Beautiful. People go there because the 69 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: leaves change up in the Tennessee Mountains and it's beautiful, scenic, 70 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: and this would be, I guess, the most beautiful area 71 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: of a beautiful area. You don't expect to see crime 72 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: scene tape wrapped around one of the mansions and people 73 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: go going in and out with hazmat suits. But happy Thanksgiving, 74 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: that's what that's all about. Guys. Take a listen to this. 75 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: Guy Junior spent Thanksgiving twenty sixteen with his family. It 76 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: was typical. Guy Junior spent a quote smattering of holidays 77 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: in this very house. This was his home when Lisa 78 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: didn't show up for work after the holiday or co 79 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: workers were worried. You know, it's my understanding to you, 80 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: Yvonne Thomas w B I R. That the son Joel 81 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: Guy Junior, age thirty two, studying to be a plastic surgeon, 82 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: he says, and his two or three sisters all came 83 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: home and this was to be their last Thanksgiving and 84 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,239 Speaker 1: the family home the family mansion because mom and dad, 85 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: Lisa and Joel Guy, we're getting ready to retire. It's 86 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: my understanding. They were both engineers, they had wrote their 87 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: whole lives and they were finally retired ring and they 88 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: had bought Joel Guy's mother's home. She was deceased, so 89 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: they bought out their interest in the home. Everybody's interested, 90 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: and we're moving there and unloading demansion. So this would 91 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: have been the last Thanksgiving, and everybody gathers together at 92 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: the old home place for Thanksgiving. Do I have it 93 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: right so far? Yes? And picture this the last Thanksgiving 94 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: in that home. They took a family photo that day 95 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: to commemorate there where the grandchildren are in the photo. 96 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: Joel Guys Senior, Lisa, Joel Guy Junior were all in 97 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: that last family photo at that home. But yes, they 98 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: were preparing to retire. Joel Guys Senior and his wife 99 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: Lisa had already purchased that home in Sigloingsville, and so 100 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: they were ready to make that move. You know, I'm 101 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: just thinking about that. I've got to see that Van 102 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: Thomas w bi R. You gotta send me that picture. 103 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: I haven't seen that last family photo with every rebody 104 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: in it. And you know, to doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists 105 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, I hope that 106 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: my children, John, David and Lucy go to college locally 107 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: because I want to be with them. I don't want 108 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: them to go away. Of course, if they want to 109 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: go away, fine, I'm not gonna say anything. Yeah, but 110 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: will yeah, Okay, you're right, I've already been saying what 111 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: about this? What about that? You know, just first of all, 112 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: I've got to get them through middle school. That's my 113 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: goal right now. Let me tell you, math and science 114 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: are a challenge. But the only reason I hope you're 115 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: sitting down you may need to lay down for this 116 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: one doctor Angie. The only reason. Correct me if I'm wrong, 117 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,559 Speaker 1: Yvonne Thomas, don't be afraid. The only reason Lisa Guy 118 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: kept working is to support her son, Joel Guy Junior. Now, 119 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: this guy is twenty eight at the time, have been 120 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: going to college at LSU for about a decade. He 121 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: says he's working. He's studying to become a plastic surgeon. 122 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: I've looked him, looked and looked. I don't see that 123 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: he's in med school. I think he's ten years to 124 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: get through his undergrad Not judging, it took my brother. 125 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: I think how many six or seven years. He'd take 126 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: off a quarter and he'd work, then he go back, 127 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: then he go back, blah blah blah blah. He finally finished. 128 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: So not judging, it could be any number of things 129 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: the reasons why, but he was the only reason she 130 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: kept working to support him. For all. From what I 131 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: can tell, he's never held down a job. He's twenty eight, 132 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: almost twenty nine. What human being is okay with that? Nancy, 133 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. When I moved out, I never asked 134 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: my parents for another penny. Oh when I bought my 135 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: first house, I asked them. They offered to give me 136 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: down payment and I paid him back pronto. But twenty 137 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: almost twenty nine years old, never down a job. What 138 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: is that? Well, he certainly was enjoying. I mean, I 139 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: think it's lazy. I think that he doesn't have any 140 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: drive inside of him, and he had become very accustomed 141 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: to us. I wish that I knew some other things 142 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: about about his past and how he lived and how 143 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: he was taken care of. But they are just aiding 144 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: and abetting some very ya hold on about blaming. Thus, 145 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: I blamed the victimhen the dad wasn't supporting him. Crime 146 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the 147 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: deaths of a mom and dad. How the whole thing happened. 148 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: At Thanksgiving, the whole whole family gathers in this beautiful mansion. 149 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: They do the turkey, they do the dressing, the cranberry sauce, 150 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: a whole nine yards, the family photo, and then the 151 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: following Monday morning, Lisa, the mom doesn't show up for work. 152 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: Now correct me if I'm wrong, Yvonne Thomas w bir 153 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: But didn't we just say that inning to retire, sell 154 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: the house and move to the mother in law's house. 155 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: They were retiring. Right, they were finally quitting work. That 156 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: was the plan, right, Yvon, Yes, absolutely, that was the plan, 157 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: so much so that this was Lisa Guy's last week 158 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: of work. She was retiring. Joelkay Senior was already retired, 159 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: but this was the last week of work, and she 160 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: had been hanging in there to support the adult son, 161 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: who had never done a liquor work. Their retirement and 162 00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: their move to a smaller home was not to be remember, 163 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: her boss Jennifer, new something was up when Lisa didn't 164 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: show up for work, and after multiple calls to Lisa's 165 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: home and sail with no answer, she had police go 166 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: do a welfare check, which they did. Take a listen 167 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: to our friend Madison kvat WAT TV. Before he's even 168 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: inside the house, Detective Jeremy McCord is on guard. The 169 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: door was warm. There was some kind of strange odor 170 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: that I observed. I don't I don't know if I 171 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: verbalized it. I know that was more or less just 172 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: a feeling, sensation of feeling very odd or something ominous 173 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: about it. There were vehicles in the driveway. Nobody was 174 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: answering the door, and it was an odd situation. The 175 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: door in the garage opens, they announced themselves, we're here 176 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: with heat, We're here and again with this strange odor. 177 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: There is a pot on the stove, a large pot 178 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: that you can tell that the stove is on the stove, 179 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: talk in the oven or on because of all the 180 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: heat coming from that area, and it's it's it's very odd. 181 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: You're hearing Knox County Sheriff's Detective Jerry Jerry mc chord 182 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: describing coming up to the guy home and it was 183 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: incredibly hot and there was a very odd smell that 184 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: he couldn't identify. To doctor Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner 185 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: for the entire state of Florida. Doctor Gallagher's, it's wonderful 186 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: to talk to you as always, although we somehow always 187 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: end up talking about dead people. Doctor Gallagher, you know, 188 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: I've told people before when you smell a dead human body, 189 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: you never you know what it is instinctively, Well, what 190 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: is that? What makes the human body different in death? Well, 191 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: you know you're correct about that. Nancy's a smell that 192 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: you'll never forget. And as a matter of fact, when 193 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: I did my tours through the high schools, I would 194 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: bring them to the decomposition room and have them smell, 195 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 1: the actual scent of a decomposing body, and it's something 196 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: that stays with them for years and years. You know. 197 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: I remember going to multiple homicide scenes and actually having 198 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: rookie cops I see them start vomiting. I mean, not 199 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: the site, they hadn't even seen the site yet, but 200 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: the smell of decom Now what's interesting here is you've 201 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: got a seasoned detective Jeremy McCord. This is not his 202 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: first time at the rodeo, but he cannot identify the smell. 203 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: And I know a season detective. I mean, when you 204 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: get to detective Stephen Lampley, you're a PI. But long 205 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: story short, you have to be a beat cop and 206 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: then you you work your way up through the ranks 207 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: of police or sheriff before you become a detective. Isn't 208 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: that right, Stephen Nancy. Yes, you have to spend your 209 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: time on the street, which by department varies. In my case, 210 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: it was three years before you could be promoted to 211 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: really anything beyond a street officer at that you know, 212 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, so this guy's already a detective, 213 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure he's seen his share of dead bodies. 214 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: But he says it's an unusual, odd smell that he 215 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: couldn't yet identify. So what is it? What more do 216 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: we know? Take a listen again to our friend Madison 217 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: kiv at wat ETV six, I get in front of 218 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: everybody and start clearing the stairwell to try and get 219 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: an eyeball of what's above us. McCord says, there are 220 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: signs things aren't right. During this time, there's a dog 221 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: that's barking, and the dog will bark and bark and bark, 222 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: and then the dog stops barking. That was odd to me. 223 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: Most dogs, when they bark and you're in their territory, 224 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: they continue barking walking through this house, something he says 225 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: he'll always remember. It's terrifying because you don't know if 226 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: somebody needs some help. I mean, it's just an odd situation. 227 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: There's nothing downstairs that I'm observing that makes sense to me. 228 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author Red Flags and host 229 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: of Live with Doctor Wendy CASEYBQ. You know, Wendy, I've 230 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: heard it a million times and I felt it myself 231 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: on multiple crime scenes and in other places. You get 232 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: a feeling this cop sees his detective sees cars, cars 233 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: part in the driveway, but nobody comes into the door. 234 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: He hears a dog howling and barking plaintively, but then 235 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: stops and starts again. The place is burning up hot, 236 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: the stove is on, the oven is on, the heat 237 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: is on. Something is very wrong, but he doesn't know 238 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: what it is yet. Have you ever gotten that feeling 239 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: on a crime saying, Wendy, you know, isn't that the truth? Nancy? 240 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: Because we sell ourselves short with respect to all the 241 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: different experiences into the scene. You know, we come in 242 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: already trained by virtue of all the cases, we've already done, 243 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: all the things we've already read and heard about, and 244 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: having been a life for as many years as we 245 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: have that we can tell when something's wrong instinctively. Even Nancy, 246 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: if we can't put our finger on exactly why we 247 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: have the feelings we do, we can imagine how much 248 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: more significant that is the number of years a train 249 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: detect was found the police force. So that's absolutely right. 250 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: Somebody comes in and smells and hears and perceives all 251 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: the different types of things that lead them to the 252 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: conclusion that something terrible happened here. Now I got to 253 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: find out what it is. I think of our minds 254 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: like a computer or a giant computer, and we walk 255 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: into a crime scene and we are processing so many 256 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: clues at once that our mind may not embrace what 257 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: all we're processing. Listen, missus. Guy's head was found in 258 00:16:55,080 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: a large pot in liquid in the kitchen. The liquid 259 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: in the pot had a slightly different character to it 260 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: than the liquid in the plastic tubs. It didn't have 261 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: the strong chemical odor. It had a slight odor of decomposition, 262 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: but it did not have the chemical odor like the 263 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: bins upstairs did. And the skin that remained, the skin 264 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: and flesh that remained on her scalt was different. It 265 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: did not have the contact. In other words, the skin 266 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: looked like it had heat artifact or what we call 267 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: thermal artifact, as opposed to a chemical artifact. The hair 268 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: was still there as well, Doctor Tim Gallagher, we need 269 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: you now more than ever, our medical examiner. State of flora, 270 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: thermal artifact versus chemical artifact. I think I know what 271 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: that means, But explain it to me in regular people 272 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: talk place. Well, thermal artifact is a burn. So when 273 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: you're exposed to heat, flame, etc. You know it is 274 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: an actual burn created by heat, whereas a chemical artifact 275 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: is also considered to be a burn, but it's more 276 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: of a dissolving type, softening burn, whereas the heat artifact 277 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: is a leather like or very firm texture to the 278 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: skin that occurs after it's been exposed to radiating heat. 279 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: Tell me that one more time. One is leather like that? Well, 280 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: if you're right, the skin will take on a leather 281 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: like to assistency or will feel like leather if the 282 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: body is exposed to fire or that or a fire 283 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: heat source. So that would be a thermal artifact, and 284 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: then a chemical artifact or a chemical defect would be 285 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: one where the skin is being dissolved, dissolved by the 286 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: chemical whatever. That chemical may be acid or alkali or 287 00:18:53,960 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: something to that effect. Climbed stories with Nancy Grace. This 288 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: mother Lacy Guy's head severed heads in a pot on 289 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: the stove cooking. That's what we're talking about. Let's take 290 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: a listen to doctor Amy Hawes, the medical examiner. Take 291 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: a listen. Like mister Guy, Missus Guy was also dismembered. 292 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: There was some differences in the degree to which she 293 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: was dismembered in the way she was dismembered. Her head 294 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: was completely severed from her body. Her arms were disarticulated 295 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: at the shoulders, and her legs were disarticulated at the knees. 296 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: So in comparison and mister Guy who had his legs 297 00:19:54,760 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: disarticulate the hips, missus guys legs were at the knee, 298 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: so her thighs were still untact. Her thighs were still 299 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: attached onto her body, but her head was completely severed 300 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: and her arms were completely severed, much like mister Guy. 301 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: The skin of her bat was still relatively well preserved 302 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: compared to her front where there was almost no skin left. 303 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: And just thinking about this woman as a personal Lisa Guy. 304 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: She worked her whole life as an engineer, had two 305 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: girls and a boy, raised them, was married to one 306 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: person her whole life, and just as she is set 307 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: to finally stop working and enjoy the rest of her life, well, 308 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: there's no nice way to put it, her head ends 309 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: up in a stew pot on the stove. But what 310 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: about her husband? Listen to doctor Amy Hawes. The first 311 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: thing to note with mister Guy is his remains had 312 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: been dismembered. The arms had been removed at the shoulders, 313 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: The legs had been removed at the hips. His head 314 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: was completely skeletonized, and there was some area of defect 315 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: of the bone of the forehead. The bone in that 316 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: area was in such poor condition that it was impossible 317 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: to tell whether that was from the chemicals in which 318 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: the skull had been or whether it was from blunt trauma. 319 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: There was skin remaining primarily on the back of mister Guy, 320 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: approximately from his lower neck around his buttocks, and the 321 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: remainder of the skin was gone. The remainder of the 322 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: skin had been dissolved by chemicals, and with the skin 323 00:21:54,960 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: being gone, it basically exposed bare muscle. Is it the 324 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: work of a madman? Or is it highly planned someone 325 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: that is in complete control of all their faculties. Listen 326 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: to what else we learn about the body of the 327 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: Dad Joel Guy Senior. On the skin of his back, 328 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: he had what I identified as thirty four sharp force injuries. 329 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: And sharp force injuries are either stabs or cuts. These 330 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: sharp force injuries again extended from up near about the 331 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: area of his shoulder down to his buttocks. They were 332 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: on both sides. The wounds ranged from about one inches 333 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: in length to about seven inches in length. And the 334 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: maximum depth was about six inches. Associated with these stab wounds, 335 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: I identified injuries to the liver, lungs, and kidneys and ribs. Again, 336 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: there likely was more because of the dismemberment process. It 337 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: was some of the cuts. It was difficult to tell 338 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: if it was part of the dismemberment process or actually 339 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: a sharp force injury that occurred while mister Guy was 340 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: still alive. She mentioned thirty four sharp force injuries to 341 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: mister guys back. He had a total of forty two 342 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: stab wounds to his body and his wife suffered thirty 343 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: one stab wounds to her body. The work of a madman, 344 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: someone insane or was it highly planned? First two you 345 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher, Medical Exam LA joining us out of 346 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: the state of Florida. Many of us have seen Dexter 347 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: and other similar shows on television or cable where it 348 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: seems like a piece of k to dismember some one. 349 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: It's not that easy, Gallagher, not at all, explain, Oh, 350 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: certainly not. You know, this is a process that will 351 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: take someone who's uninitiated hours and hours to do, even 352 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: if they know where to cut, even if they know 353 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: where to cut through the joint. Instead of cutting it 354 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: through the bone, especially if you're using handheld instruments, you know, 355 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: as opposed to an electric saw or something like that. 356 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: But this is a process that takes quite a long 357 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: time and expends quite a bit of energy. To Yvonne Thomas, 358 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: w BI R. Ten Knees and knoxful, of course, the 359 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: killer had not finished cleaning up the same because it's 360 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: my understanding when law enforcement goes in they find a 361 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: severed hand in the upstairs exercise room just lying there. 362 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: They absolutely did, And how terrifying can you imagine that? 363 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: Being sea hands not attached to a body in a 364 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: room surrounded by blood, bloods bladder, pull the blood on 365 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: the carpet, just trying to take that in. And of course, 366 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: as law enforcement goes in, they don't know if the 367 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: killer is still in the home. You hear a dog 368 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: barking at in the distance and have no idea what 369 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: you're walking into, and you see a severed hand in 370 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: the exercise room and a head and nick boiling on 371 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: the stove. It's almost incomprehensible to us talking. You know, 372 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: we're looking at it as trained analyzer's effect. That's what 373 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: all of us on the panel do, where lawyers were prosecutors, 374 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: were a medical examiner, a psychiatrist, a detective. But I 375 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: wonder how this strikes a lay person. Now it's been 376 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: argued that whoever did the deed must be insane. But 377 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: what about out a notebook a notebook that is found 378 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: in a backpack in the back bedroom of the home. 379 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: Listen to Leslie Naseos, flush shunks down toilet, not garbage disposal. 380 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: No evidence, ladies and gentlemen, that that he did that. 381 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: But the next line, get plastic sheeting for disposal process. 382 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: There is evidence that there was a plastic sheeting at 383 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: the scene on the bed where Joel and Lisa Guy slipped. 384 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: Get hollow point bullets just in case will be seen 385 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: buying bullets. Just use computer room gun check to make 386 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: sure there are bullets. Last resort, there were no gun 387 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: shot wounds to the victims. He's not alive to claim 388 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: her half of the insurance money all mine five hundred 389 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. What more do we know in that notebook 390 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: full of detailed instructions about how to commit the double martyr. 391 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: Listen again to Leslie Nauseas, bring blender and food grinder, 392 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: grind meat. Well, we will not show you that he 393 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 1: did grind any meat. But we will show you that 394 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: he brought a blender and that in his vehicle that 395 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: was searched after his arrest in Baton Rouge. He did 396 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: have a food processor in the trunk. Get a bleach 397 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: d nature proteins while there was bleach, several tubs of 398 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: bleach in the kitchen. Get plastic ben for d naturation process. 399 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: And I guess that's that means for dissolving your parents. 400 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: Does not matter where they're killed. Just get rid of 401 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: bloody spots to prevent at some time of death, not 402 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: the mattress or couches. Get rid of bodies inside the house. 403 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: There in my DNA already there crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 404 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: we are talking about the death and dismemberment of two 405 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: wonderful people, loving parents, grandparents Lisa Guy and Joel Guy Senior, 406 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: set to retire, leave their jobs, start a new life together. 407 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: There was only one fly in the ointment. Lisa had 408 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: been supporting her grown son, who had spent nine years 409 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: at LSU, never held out a job and still didn't 410 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: have a degree. That was the only reason she had 411 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: kept working. What more, does a notebook reveal that was 412 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: found in a back bedroom in a backpack. Listen, it's 413 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: on a notebook, and in a notebook there was a 414 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: writing and I want to go through it with you 415 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: a little bit because so it's kind of hard to 416 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: see like this, but we'll start from the first line. 417 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: Get a killing knife, quiet multiple get a carving knife 418 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: to make small pieces, get sledgehammer, crush bones, and of 419 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: course there were multiple knives found at the scene. You 420 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: will hear there was a knife in the guest bathroom, 421 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: a knife in the sink in the master bathroom. The 422 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: crime scene horrific. The crime scene text having to wear 423 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: hazmatt outfits back to our friend Yvan Thomas W B 424 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: I R ten n when police come into the mansion 425 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: and they very quickly see two blue tote tubs full 426 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: of chemicals. What else are in the tubs full of chemicals? 427 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: And body parts of Lisa Guy and Joel Guys senior. 428 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: Even a torso was found in one of those bins. 429 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: What can you tell me, Yvonne Thomas W B I 430 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: R about the mother or Lisa Guys cell phone set 431 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: to send a text or a phone call a few 432 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: days later, such as on Sunday or Monday. Yes, the 433 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: phone was set to send a text message, phone call 434 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: or so to her son Joel Guy Junior, who by 435 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: that time was in Baton Rouge. Yes, it's all fitting 436 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: together for me because he is there over Thanksgiving weekend. 437 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: He is about to be cut off financially. The mom 438 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: is finally quitting work. He's gonna have to fend for himself. 439 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: Someone sets mom's phone to text him or call him 440 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: in Baton Rouge, thereby Stephen Lampley, detective and author, setting 441 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: up an alibi for him in Baton Rouge. When he 442 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: picks that phone up right, let's cootinancy. But unfortunately, apparently 443 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: he's not smart enough to know that that can all 444 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: be traced back and figured out. I guess his intent 445 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: was to commit the perfect crime, but he wasn't smart 446 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: enough to do that. If that was him that did this, 447 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: they committed the crime himself. And another note that I 448 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: noticed when they were reading off the notebook that he 449 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: said in his writings it says that my and their 450 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: DNA is already. This perpetrator's DNA be on the scene already, 451 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: So that tells me that this is somebody in the 452 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: family or a friend of the family who has been 453 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: at this home before you know it, tells me to 454 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of red Flags. Timing is everything. 455 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: I believe that the son, Joel Guy Junior, thirty two 456 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: years old, had planned to be in Baton Rouge to 457 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: pick the phone up. Have you a fake conversation with 458 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 1: his mother who's dead. Then go back to the scene. 459 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: See he's in Baton Rouge as seen as in Knoxville. 460 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: Retrieve his notebook, finished cleaning up the scene because in 461 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: the list of things to do it said to take 462 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: his mom's nails and scratch his dad's arm to get 463 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: dad's DNA under her fingernails. So clearly he was setting 464 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: up the scene. What he didn't count on, I think, Wendy, 465 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: is that the security, the welfare check would happen before 466 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: he could get back to get that notebook. That's what 467 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: I think happened, Wendy. His timing was off. Yeah, no, 468 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. You know, in this kind of a community, 469 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: they were very vigilant learning when somebody was missing, Being concerned, 470 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: and a timeline in and of itself sometimes is the 471 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: deciding factor for a jury being able to put everything 472 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: in a line and see somebody's mental processes as they 473 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: go through. And here this homicide journal, as with other cases, 474 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: no book speaks, volumes. These silent pieces of evidence detail 475 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: exactly what somebody's going to do. And in this case 476 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: it was accurate, it was corroborated, and it was consistent. 477 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: And those things together are very important at this particular 478 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: crime scene, you know, to doctor Angie Arnold, Doctor Angie 479 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley pointed out that the notebook said, my DNA's 480 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: already here, but and he's correct, giving away who the 481 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: purp is. But it also says even further identifying who 482 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: else's DNA's there. But who else was going to benefit? 483 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: It says assets, and it lays out the mom's assets 484 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: and the dad's assets. The mom had a five hundred 485 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: thousand dollar life insurance policy. And it says it'll all 486 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: it'll be all mine his words, not mine, it will 487 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: be all mine with dad dead or missing. So who's 488 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: the beneficiary. The son Joel Guy Junior, and he was 489 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: quite the planner too, wasn't me? Yeah? What is that? 490 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 1: I mean? You remember in the Robert Blake case, Blake 491 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,479 Speaker 1: and his henchman had these long, detailed lists. Gotta get lie, 492 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: gotta get tarts, gotta get this hammer, shovel, everything a 493 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: killer needs. Somehow they managed to explain it away to 494 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: a gullible California jury. Sorry Wendy Patrick, but I mean 495 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: there's a certain thing. There's something to be said about 496 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: overplanning when you're making this meticulous list of murder to 497 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: dus Well and also, Nancy, have you thought about that 498 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: it might have even been giving him some sick Oh, 499 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: I see we've got another guest joining us at the 500 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: K nine giving him You know, I don't mind if 501 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: we appeal to the K nine listeners in viewership, Doctor 502 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: Angel Arnold, I think you were about to say making 503 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: the list like when I take the children on, say 504 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: our RV trips or our camping trips. I make exhaustive 505 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: lists because I don't want to be out in the 506 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere and not have what we need. But 507 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: I also enjoy planning it. Well, you know, Nancy, I 508 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: think I mean this, and I don't believe this is 509 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: too far out there. I think this guy could have 510 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: been getting some sort of sick pleasure out of making 511 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 1: the lists and thinking, of thinking and brooding and plotting 512 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: about what it was going to feel like when he 513 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: was doing thus when he was actually following it through 514 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: with everything. I made the very tenuous analogy to planning 515 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: an RV trip, how you enjoy making your list and 516 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: planning what you're going to do. I think you're right, 517 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: doctor Angie. I think he enjoyed making this list because 518 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,800 Speaker 1: I've actually looked at list and it is like single 519 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: spaced pages and pages and pages. Am I right? Yvon Thomas? Absolutely, 520 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: this was not just a frontened back list like you 521 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: make to go to the grocery store. This was details 522 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: of pages on pages of things that someone had to 523 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: do to get those so that this murder could actually happen. 524 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, I know you go through all these 525 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: procedures and you're strictly by the book when you perform 526 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: an autopsy. This guy totally dismembered two bodies, and do 527 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: you know what? Do you know that the Dad's limbs 528 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: were almost skeletonized. He had had the body part soaking 529 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: in chemicals. His evil was actually working. Gallagher, Well, it 530 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: could be true. I mean, depending on what he was 531 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: soaking them in, the bones could have over the course 532 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: of time. And we're talking about a year and a half, 533 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: maybe two years, but totally liquefied, and there would be 534 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: very little evidence left to ascertain whether this was the 535 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: person or not. You could probably use teeth information, but 536 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: apparently that would not be Remember he said he had 537 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: a sledgehammer to destroy what was left in the bones. 538 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: But yeah, but also he had turned the heat up, 539 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: left the oven and the stove on to intensify the 540 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: heat to hasten the decomposition process. But also he had 541 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,280 Speaker 1: gone to extreme measures to get rid of being any 542 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: semblance of identification. You'll be happy to know a jury 543 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 1: found him guilty, no doubt about it. So when is 544 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: this sentencing set to go down, Yvonne Thomas, Well, he 545 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: was sentenced that day that the jury mayfair verdict for 546 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: the first degree murder counts. He will be sentenced on 547 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: November nineteenth for the abuse of a corpse charges. We 548 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off 549 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,