WEBVTT - The Search for Brooke Henson 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:24.196 Pushkin. I don't want to pick a fight with the 0:00:24.236 --> 0:00:27.836 cartel or the biker gangs or drug boards. I'm not 0:00:28.516 --> 0:00:30.916 I'm a small town chief trying to run the department, 0:00:31.116 --> 0:00:32.956 and we have one cold case that we're trying to solve, 0:00:33.036 --> 0:00:36.756 so we just want to find the truth. That's Ben Ford, 0:00:36.956 --> 0:00:39.956 the chief of police in Traveler's Rest. When I was 0:00:39.996 --> 0:00:42.836 reporting for this podcast, I spent a bunch of time 0:00:42.876 --> 0:00:45.796 with Chief Ford, or Ben, that's what he said I 0:00:45.796 --> 0:00:49.276 should call him. He's a very personable guy, and he's 0:00:49.316 --> 0:00:53.356 deeply invested in Brooke Henson's case. In fact, when I 0:00:53.396 --> 0:00:56.836 first started poking around on the story, he actually reached 0:00:56.836 --> 0:00:59.516 out to me. He wanted to share what he knew 0:00:59.916 --> 0:01:02.156 in the hopes that by getting the word out there, 0:01:02.516 --> 0:01:07.516 he might finally solve this case. So when I first 0:01:07.556 --> 0:01:09.836 got into town, we drove around owned for a while, 0:01:10.236 --> 0:01:12.956 gave me a little tour, and we talked about the case, 0:01:13.356 --> 0:01:16.636 about all the competing theories and what happened, and then 0:01:16.756 --> 0:01:20.196 we headed back to his office and talk some more. Honestly, 0:01:20.556 --> 0:01:23.836 it's unusual for law enforcement to be quite this candid, 0:01:24.476 --> 0:01:28.796 So today we're sharing some of that conversation, and one 0:01:28.796 --> 0:01:31.156 of The first things that Ben shared with me was 0:01:31.196 --> 0:01:34.556 that he'd grown up here in Traveler's Rest, and so 0:01:34.756 --> 0:01:38.476 everything that happened here with Brooke Henson it was personal 0:01:38.516 --> 0:01:55.556 for him. I'm Jake Halbern and this is deep cover 0:02:08.876 --> 0:02:20.716 this week or going back to Traveler's Rest. So what 0:02:20.756 --> 0:02:22.316 was it like growing up here? I'll just give me 0:02:22.316 --> 0:02:25.716 a sense for her. Yeah, yeah, So you know, quiet 0:02:25.876 --> 0:02:29.516 small town. You pretty much knew everybody, and you're you 0:02:29.556 --> 0:02:33.996 knew of everybody, so there weren't many things that could 0:02:33.996 --> 0:02:38.956 get kept secret around here. So you know, it was 0:02:38.996 --> 0:02:40.996 a quiet little town, not a whole lot of crime, 0:02:41.156 --> 0:02:43.316 you know, just a great place to grow up. Really, 0:02:44.316 --> 0:02:47.036 Brook Henson must have been about your age, maybe a 0:02:47.076 --> 0:02:49.116 bit younger. She was a little younger than me. Yes, 0:02:49.516 --> 0:02:51.956 did you know her or her family growing up? I 0:02:52.036 --> 0:02:54.476 did not. I didn't know. I was five years I see, 0:02:54.556 --> 0:02:59.636 five years older than her. I believe my brother actually 0:02:59.756 --> 0:03:01.756 is three years younger than me and actually knew her, 0:03:01.916 --> 0:03:05.796 and actually my my wife knew her from school, so 0:03:06.396 --> 0:03:10.116 I have those connections that they knew of her, and 0:03:10.356 --> 0:03:12.956 and Brooke dropped out of school early in high school, 0:03:12.956 --> 0:03:15.236 in tenth grade. I believe it was But but growing 0:03:15.316 --> 0:03:17.316 up through middle school in high school. Yeah, I've got 0:03:17.316 --> 0:03:19.516 family members and my wife that that kind of knew her. 0:03:19.916 --> 0:03:24.436 Does that change things in terms of making them more personal? 0:03:24.516 --> 0:03:29.556 Like this is not just some random person who you're investigating. 0:03:29.596 --> 0:03:32.116 What happeness is someone that you have personal connections to 0:03:32.236 --> 0:03:34.716 in a small town. It does for me. And even 0:03:34.756 --> 0:03:38.076 when I worked to another agency, the Maldon Police Department, 0:03:39.436 --> 0:03:41.476 I knew of this case. I knew of this case 0:03:41.516 --> 0:03:43.716 my entire career. When I worked to other agencies and 0:03:43.756 --> 0:03:45.996 I knew that she was missing and it was unsolved. 0:03:46.716 --> 0:03:49.516 And if there were people that I came across that 0:03:49.596 --> 0:03:52.476 I thought may know something, I would ask And it 0:03:52.516 --> 0:03:54.956 wasn't even my case. Then I worked for other agencies, 0:03:54.996 --> 0:03:57.716 but I would ask and if if they had good information, 0:03:57.756 --> 0:03:59.756 I would refer them up here to travels rest to 0:04:00.396 --> 0:04:02.276 see if they could help help out with the case. 0:04:02.316 --> 0:04:05.116 So it does. It does make it a little more personal. 0:04:06.556 --> 0:04:10.396 I have an investigative background throughout my career. Most of 0:04:10.436 --> 0:04:13.436 my career has been investigations, and it's something that that 0:04:13.476 --> 0:04:16.996 I don't like to give up home. It's just especially 0:04:17.036 --> 0:04:19.996 when when it hits home and it's so close to 0:04:20.436 --> 0:04:24.796 people that I know. So there's so many of different 0:04:24.836 --> 0:04:27.156 accounts in the media, and I know a lot of uh, 0:04:27.436 --> 0:04:29.596 there's a lot of misinformation out there. But let's maybe 0:04:29.636 --> 0:04:31.636 just start like, what do we know about the facts 0:04:31.636 --> 0:04:34.036 of this case? Are what are the things that we 0:04:34.036 --> 0:04:37.636 can say relatively certain, and what don't we know about 0:04:38.236 --> 0:04:42.276 the facts surrounding her disappearance. So interestingly enough, what we 0:04:42.396 --> 0:04:45.236 thought were facts in this case may not have been 0:04:45.436 --> 0:04:47.876 now that we've we found out in the last year. 0:04:48.716 --> 0:04:52.756 So what was reported was that Brooke was last seen 0:04:52.836 --> 0:04:55.436 at her residence at about two thirty in the morning, 0:04:56.076 --> 0:05:00.596 outside of the residence going for a walk. That's reported 0:05:00.596 --> 0:05:03.996 by her mother and a couple of other individuals family 0:05:04.036 --> 0:05:08.996 members there that spoke to her saw her. That's their account. 0:05:10.796 --> 0:05:13.636 We don't actually know if that's true or not. They're 0:05:13.916 --> 0:05:17.636 they're conflicting stories now saying that no, she never walked 0:05:17.676 --> 0:05:20.756 away from the house. She was other places. We have 0:05:20.836 --> 0:05:24.636 several statements now that she was last seen alive up 0:05:24.636 --> 0:05:27.876 in the River Falls community of Greenville County, which is 0:05:27.916 --> 0:05:32.156 about six or eight miles north of Traveler's Rest, and 0:05:32.676 --> 0:05:34.916 we believe that she was last thing alive up there 0:05:35.436 --> 0:05:37.076 on the same night or a different night. It would 0:05:37.076 --> 0:05:39.956 be the same night, the same night she was known 0:05:40.076 --> 0:05:42.676 to leave and maybe walk around the town. She was 0:05:42.756 --> 0:05:44.956 known as a walker around town, and she may walk 0:05:44.996 --> 0:05:48.116 to get some cigarettes or walk up to the to 0:05:48.236 --> 0:05:52.476 the local store, and there was some pool tables there 0:05:52.556 --> 0:05:55.476 and a little hangout. Of course, these places were closed 0:05:55.476 --> 0:05:58.036 this time of night, which makes it even more strange 0:05:58.076 --> 0:06:01.076 on why she would have went for a walk. Then, however, 0:06:02.316 --> 0:06:05.436 we have statements that say that, you know, this person 0:06:05.516 --> 0:06:07.316 picked her up, or this person picked her up, or 0:06:07.756 --> 0:06:10.036 we have so many different statements. Don't know what's true 0:06:10.076 --> 0:06:13.236 and what's not. So what we're finding out is the 0:06:13.356 --> 0:06:18.156 deeper we dig, the more stories we're hearing. I heard 0:06:18.156 --> 0:06:20.836 one the other day and I can't go into detail 0:06:20.836 --> 0:06:24.756 about some of the stories, but allegedly this person killed 0:06:24.756 --> 0:06:26.476 her now and we never heard that person's name in 0:06:26.476 --> 0:06:29.716 twenty three years, and this is how this person did it. 0:06:29.876 --> 0:06:32.396 So you know, we're we're still following up on that obviously, 0:06:32.436 --> 0:06:36.316 but but you know, she was The facts remain in 0:06:36.356 --> 0:06:39.716 the case file that she was last seen at her residence. However, 0:06:39.796 --> 0:06:41.836 we do have statements she was seen in Riverfalls, so 0:06:41.916 --> 0:06:44.756 we believe somebody picked her up what we believe now 0:06:45.036 --> 0:06:48.396 took her to River Falls to some more parties. We've 0:06:48.436 --> 0:06:50.236 been told there were parties up there too that night, 0:06:50.276 --> 0:06:52.436 so we believe that she was last seen alive up there. 0:06:52.756 --> 0:06:55.116 What happened that all of a sudden a year ago, 0:06:55.276 --> 0:06:58.356 this changes. I mean we're almost more than twenty years out, 0:06:58.876 --> 0:07:01.916 so what happens that kind of gets this new information going. 0:07:03.116 --> 0:07:06.076 So when I came in the end of twenty eighteen, 0:07:06.716 --> 0:07:09.716 I started digging into the case myself. I wanted to 0:07:09.756 --> 0:07:14.156 look at it and see after a couple of years 0:07:14.236 --> 0:07:16.356 of doing that off and on, you know, being the 0:07:16.356 --> 0:07:20.236 police chief, I have other responsibilities too. There's a friend 0:07:20.276 --> 0:07:24.156 of mine, this retired law enforcement that he and I 0:07:24.196 --> 0:07:27.916 talked about this case a little bit, and he wants 0:07:27.916 --> 0:07:29.996 to be anonymous, and I'm going to keep him anonymous. 0:07:30.076 --> 0:07:34.236 But he came into the picture and we talked a 0:07:34.236 --> 0:07:36.636 little bit, and I allowed him to look at the 0:07:36.676 --> 0:07:41.316 case file, which is, you know, for bankers box full 0:07:41.556 --> 0:07:44.756 of information. Of course, I scanned it and put it 0:07:44.756 --> 0:07:46.356 on digital format so he could look at it and 0:07:46.356 --> 0:07:48.316 that type of thing. So when he came on the scene, 0:07:49.036 --> 0:07:51.236 he had some it was a fresh set eyes. It 0:07:51.276 --> 0:07:53.036 was a retired law enforce a officer. This is just 0:07:53.116 --> 0:07:55.716 volunteer in his time. So at that point we really 0:07:55.716 --> 0:07:57.876 sort of hitting it hard and talking to more and 0:07:57.956 --> 0:08:01.076 more people. And so about a year. It was April 0:08:01.116 --> 0:08:03.716 of last year, April twenty twenty one when we started that, 0:08:04.156 --> 0:08:07.156 and that kind of jolted us in this investigation to 0:08:07.236 --> 0:08:11.036 spend more time working on it. The main thing that 0:08:11.076 --> 0:08:15.356 we've heard in the last year is that it's not 0:08:15.556 --> 0:08:19.836 necessarily how Route was killed, it's what happened to her afterwards, 0:08:20.996 --> 0:08:24.756 and that it's much bigger than we could ever imagine. 0:08:24.876 --> 0:08:28.356 That's what people are telling us, So we're trying to 0:08:28.596 --> 0:08:31.356 figure out what they mean by that. And and the 0:08:31.396 --> 0:08:34.116 different theories that have come into play is one has 0:08:34.156 --> 0:08:36.476 to do with some type of satanic worship or cult, 0:08:37.116 --> 0:08:40.316 some something's you know that could be a possibility. Um, 0:08:40.356 --> 0:08:46.716 there's been mentions of of maybe biker motorcycle clubs involvement. UM, 0:08:46.756 --> 0:08:48.836 I won't go in specifics because you just don't know 0:08:48.916 --> 0:08:50.956 if it's true. We haven't proved any of that. And 0:08:50.956 --> 0:08:54.356 then there's there's also been mentioned of of cartel of 0:08:54.396 --> 0:08:57.716 Mexican cartel involvement and over drugs and stuff. Is that 0:08:57.836 --> 0:09:00.636 carteller was that cartel active at that time in this area. 0:09:00.756 --> 0:09:04.196 They were, They were not and not the way that 0:09:04.796 --> 0:09:08.356 they are in today's world with the with the methamphetamine 0:09:08.396 --> 0:09:10.516 trade and things like that. But and again I'm not 0:09:10.596 --> 0:09:13.436 gonna accuse any which one of those because I don't 0:09:13.436 --> 0:09:17.236 know yet. Um, but you know, these may be distractions 0:09:17.236 --> 0:09:18.956 as far as we know, we don't. We don't know, 0:09:19.076 --> 0:09:21.396 but there's a lot of things that lead us that 0:09:21.436 --> 0:09:26.036 point to those different possibilities with the Satanic worshiping and 0:09:26.396 --> 0:09:28.996 then the drugs and the money, you know, because when 0:09:29.036 --> 0:09:31.916 when people go missing or or get killed, you know, 0:09:32.116 --> 0:09:34.996 funny and drugs and greed, you know, lust, those are 0:09:35.236 --> 0:09:38.876 big reasons why people die. Among those three theories, is 0:09:38.916 --> 0:09:41.596 there a front runner or is it impossible to say? 0:09:42.076 --> 0:09:45.996 I think it's impossible to say right now. Depends on 0:09:45.996 --> 0:09:47.876 what week it is. And one week we're looking at 0:09:48.316 --> 0:09:52.516 at the theory of the Satanic worshiping and the black magic, 0:09:52.596 --> 0:09:56.556 and then uh, the next week something points us in 0:09:56.556 --> 0:09:58.716 a different direction. So we're just trying to keep an 0:09:58.716 --> 0:10:02.436 open mind to all of it and not get tunnel 0:10:02.476 --> 0:10:04.916 vision on it. The one key thing we're really missing, 0:10:04.996 --> 0:10:07.916 it's the body, and that's the big, big thing we're missing. 0:10:07.916 --> 0:10:11.716 I believe that if we could find the body, then 0:10:11.756 --> 0:10:14.316 this case would move forward faster. We just don't have 0:10:14.356 --> 0:10:17.996 a body. Talked me through how that would be true. 0:10:18.276 --> 0:10:22.476 So when you have a missing person, you can't there's 0:10:22.476 --> 0:10:26.796 no crime. So somebody that's missing, there's no crime. If 0:10:26.796 --> 0:10:29.836 you find a body, and then you can determine if 0:10:29.876 --> 0:10:34.076 the person was murdered normally, or if they died of 0:10:34.196 --> 0:10:36.796 natural causes or whatever the case may be. Brooke could 0:10:36.836 --> 0:10:38.876 be alive in California right now. Do you think that's 0:10:38.876 --> 0:10:42.116 a possibility. I don't know. I don't think that she 0:10:42.116 --> 0:10:45.036 would have left her mom. Her mom and her very close. 0:10:45.716 --> 0:10:48.036 I don't think she would have left her mom or friends. 0:10:48.276 --> 0:10:51.276 And if she had, she would have she would have 0:10:51.276 --> 0:10:53.396 made contact by now. I don't believe that's a possibility. 0:10:54.596 --> 0:10:58.236 So the body you were saying, if you could find, 0:10:58.276 --> 0:11:00.956 if you had the body, then what if we had 0:11:00.996 --> 0:11:05.036 the body, that would confirm one of the many stories 0:11:05.156 --> 0:11:09.996 we have or theories about how she died about maybe, 0:11:10.956 --> 0:11:17.876 for example, if the body is in said grave and 0:11:18.116 --> 0:11:21.036 said wooded area, then we take it and go back 0:11:21.036 --> 0:11:23.076 and look at all the tips that came in and say, okay, 0:11:23.116 --> 0:11:25.956 well these ten tips now may be true because of 0:11:25.996 --> 0:11:27.796 where the body's found. I see. So it's kind of 0:11:27.796 --> 0:11:30.356 like putting the putting the puzzle together, but we don't 0:11:30.356 --> 0:11:33.196 have that that main piece we need. It's almost like 0:11:33.236 --> 0:11:34.756 you know how the story ends, and then you can 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:37.836 work backwards to figure out what happens in between. Correct. Correct. 0:11:37.836 --> 0:11:41.996 We believe that in the case file the answers are 0:11:42.036 --> 0:11:44.716 in there. We just don't know. It's like a multiple 0:11:44.796 --> 0:11:47.956 choice tests. We don't know which one is true. But 0:11:48.076 --> 0:11:50.036 we believe that the answers right there in front of 0:11:50.156 --> 0:11:51.556 so we just don't know which one's true yet. That 0:11:51.596 --> 0:11:55.076 sounds like that could drive you crazy. Absolutely can Absolutely 0:11:55.076 --> 0:11:57.716 it has been driving me crazy for three years. Now. 0:11:59.396 --> 0:12:01.756 Can I ask you why is this so important to you? 0:12:01.956 --> 0:12:04.796 I mean, I get I think I understand it. But 0:12:05.316 --> 0:12:07.756 someone might look and say, hey, this happens so long ago. 0:12:09.196 --> 0:12:13.956 Parents are both deceased, Brook appears to be deceased. Why 0:12:14.276 --> 0:12:16.076 why is this so important to get to the bottom 0:12:16.076 --> 0:12:21.556 of this? Because this is my hometown, and when someone 0:12:21.636 --> 0:12:27.476 goes missing and allegedly something happened to that person, somebody 0:12:27.516 --> 0:12:32.036 needs to fight for justice for her, and if the 0:12:32.116 --> 0:12:36.196 family has passed on, there are friends of hers, and 0:12:36.236 --> 0:12:38.516 there's me, and there's this police department that will fight 0:12:38.556 --> 0:12:43.716 for justice for And I don't plan on giving up, 0:12:44.436 --> 0:12:47.236 even though it gets frustrating, because someone needs to fight 0:12:47.316 --> 0:12:49.836 for her. And if we don't fight for her, then 0:12:49.876 --> 0:12:52.636 who then who's going to fight for the justice for her? 0:12:53.116 --> 0:12:59.436 If this person or those persons killed her. We want 0:12:59.436 --> 0:13:01.236 to get to the bottom of it and hold those 0:13:01.236 --> 0:13:04.516 individuals accountable. So it's justice is what it's about. For me. 0:13:05.116 --> 0:13:07.876 I get that. And I could also see how it 0:13:08.356 --> 0:13:10.596 in some ways to finds this place and sense of like, 0:13:11.076 --> 0:13:13.276 this is not okay to happen in this town, right 0:13:13.356 --> 0:13:16.556 and we're not gonna accept this right exactly, And in 0:13:16.836 --> 0:13:19.956 twenty three years, this is the only cold case we have, 0:13:20.356 --> 0:13:24.076 This is it? We don't We don't have a lot 0:13:24.116 --> 0:13:27.556 of violent crime happen here, well, you know, and I 0:13:27.636 --> 0:13:30.396 pride myself on that, and I love this city because 0:13:30.396 --> 0:13:32.356 of that. And we're four and a half square miles. 0:13:32.356 --> 0:13:36.156 It was small. We're small, seven thousand residents, and we 0:13:36.196 --> 0:13:39.036 have about five violent crimes a year, which I love. 0:13:40.036 --> 0:13:43.716 But this one, you know, if we don't try to 0:13:43.716 --> 0:13:45.916 find out and give it my all. I'm gonna try 0:13:45.956 --> 0:13:47.836 it to the day I retire the best I can 0:13:47.836 --> 0:13:49.996 to try to find out what happened to her. And 0:13:50.116 --> 0:13:52.676 if we don't try, then who John Campbell and I 0:13:52.716 --> 0:13:54.956 and view him today was talking about being involved in 0:13:54.956 --> 0:13:56.596 the early days at this case, and he said a 0:13:56.596 --> 0:13:59.196 few things that were interesting. One he said he took 0:13:59.196 --> 0:14:01.916 over about two years into it, and he said all 0:14:01.956 --> 0:14:03.876 he got were some written notes that were pretty hard 0:14:03.916 --> 0:14:06.116 to make sense of because it was pre computer days. 0:14:06.916 --> 0:14:10.956 And he wished that it had been treated as a 0:14:11.036 --> 0:14:13.956 murder right from the beginning. What's your take on that. Yeah, 0:14:14.036 --> 0:14:16.316 you know, anyone that looks when you put a new 0:14:16.316 --> 0:14:18.556 set of eyes on a case like this, you can 0:14:18.596 --> 0:14:20.596 always say, well, why didn't they do this, why didn't 0:14:20.636 --> 0:14:23.636 they do that? And some of that's been frustrating for 0:14:23.756 --> 0:14:26.436 me too, you know, wondering why they didn't document it better, 0:14:26.516 --> 0:14:30.796 or why they didn't do this or that. Unfortunately, you know, 0:14:30.876 --> 0:14:33.356 after you spend a couple of days worrying about that, 0:14:33.556 --> 0:14:35.156 you kind of have to let it go because it's 0:14:35.156 --> 0:14:37.236 just not there and you kind of move on with 0:14:37.276 --> 0:14:39.676 what you have. But but John's right there there. I 0:14:39.756 --> 0:14:42.796 wish it had been treated differently. But then again, you 0:14:42.836 --> 0:14:45.596 look at you know, hundreds of thousands of people go 0:14:45.676 --> 0:14:49.476 missing every year in this country, and if every one 0:14:49.516 --> 0:14:52.756 of them was treated like a homicide, imagine how many 0:14:52.756 --> 0:14:56.716 officers it would take to, you know, follow those cases 0:14:56.756 --> 0:14:59.116 correctly and work them like a homicide. Sure, we may 0:14:59.156 --> 0:15:01.396 get a missing person called this afternoon and then thirty 0:15:01.396 --> 0:15:05.116 minutes find the person, and that's the happy ending. We 0:15:05.196 --> 0:15:07.556 find the person, they're safe, and you know, then we 0:15:07.636 --> 0:15:10.356 may get one that maybe another twenty three years we 0:15:10.356 --> 0:15:13.476 haven't found. So you never know how it's going to 0:15:13.596 --> 0:15:15.556 end out. So I guess back then they thought it 0:15:15.636 --> 0:15:19.956 was just another runaway and that maybe she just ran away, 0:15:20.036 --> 0:15:21.476 she'll be home in a couple of days. You know, 0:15:21.516 --> 0:15:23.356 it was kind of thought of that way, and you 0:15:23.436 --> 0:15:27.196 never really know. So unfortunately it was handled in a 0:15:27.196 --> 0:15:32.036 way that that turned out to not be just another runaway. 0:15:32.436 --> 0:15:35.156 John made a reference to an area. Didn't tell me where, 0:15:35.756 --> 0:15:37.676 but that there was a place where they thought the 0:15:37.716 --> 0:15:40.596 body might be. What can you tell me about I 0:15:40.676 --> 0:15:43.076 understand that's sensitive, but what can you tell me about 0:15:43.116 --> 0:15:46.596 about that? There's several places mentioned in all of these 0:15:46.636 --> 0:15:49.836 tips that came in where the body may be, and 0:15:50.556 --> 0:15:57.076 some of the places are very difficult to navigate. If 0:15:57.596 --> 0:16:02.036 and I'm going to mention just a pond for example. Okay, 0:16:02.516 --> 0:16:05.796 if you have a pond and over the course of 0:16:05.836 --> 0:16:09.076 twenty plush years, and the pond is in the mound, 0:16:09.596 --> 0:16:13.356 the sediment that rolls that comes down the mountains over 0:16:13.436 --> 0:16:15.756 twenty plush years, gathers in the bottom that pond. So 0:16:15.796 --> 0:16:17.396 the bottom of the pond is not the bottom of 0:16:17.436 --> 0:16:21.556 the pond that it was twenty years ago. Or if 0:16:21.596 --> 0:16:27.996 you have concrete that is sixteen feet deep and a 0:16:28.116 --> 0:16:32.756 body is put in concrete fifteen feet down, how are 0:16:32.796 --> 0:16:34.956 we ever going to get it? How are we going 0:16:35.036 --> 0:16:39.796 to know it's down there? So these things are those hypothetical? 0:16:39.876 --> 0:16:43.036 Are those those are possibilities? Those are actual possible possibilities, 0:16:43.116 --> 0:16:45.556 their possibilities, there's real possibilities. But I don't I don't 0:16:45.596 --> 0:16:49.276 know which one is to me. They're all equally important 0:16:49.316 --> 0:16:51.916 to check out. So what do you do with those 0:16:51.956 --> 0:16:55.836 two possibilities. Well, you hope that technology comes along far 0:16:55.956 --> 0:16:59.316 enough and you get someone that can either volunteer their 0:16:59.316 --> 0:17:03.196 equipment or maybe get the FEDS involved, or maybe Greenville 0:17:03.196 --> 0:17:07.916 County helps out and tries to locate you know, a 0:17:08.036 --> 0:17:11.836 body in in these areas. UM. So a combination of 0:17:11.876 --> 0:17:17.716 all those things. And then UM, you know one you know, 0:17:17.796 --> 0:17:19.876 you think you can drain a pond. You know, ponds 0:17:19.916 --> 0:17:22.836 can be drained, but depends on how big the pond is, 0:17:22.876 --> 0:17:25.196 how deep it is. There's so many factors that come 0:17:25.236 --> 0:17:30.236 into play. UM. Concrete, you know, you can't just tear 0:17:30.276 --> 0:17:33.796 up the concrete unless you have something solid to to show, yes, 0:17:33.876 --> 0:17:35.956 that body is down there. So then you look at 0:17:36.356 --> 0:17:42.956 you know, equipment like UH or penetrating UM, I forget 0:17:42.956 --> 0:17:46.676 what the solar penetrating or you know, the ground penetrating radar, 0:17:46.716 --> 0:17:49.436 that's it ground and you look at that and using that, 0:17:49.596 --> 0:17:51.916 but it's not going to show a three D image 0:17:51.916 --> 0:17:54.756 of a body or bones. It may just show avoid 0:17:55.676 --> 0:17:59.436 you know. So technology, it depends on technology, It depends 0:17:59.436 --> 0:18:00.996 on and and I do believe that if we were 0:18:00.996 --> 0:18:03.516 ever to find a body, UM, then you do you 0:18:03.556 --> 0:18:07.556 have DNA possibilities. You know, Now, if there's anything with 0:18:07.636 --> 0:18:10.836 the body, maybe we find one of these suspects DNA 0:18:10.916 --> 0:18:12.676 in there with it. You know, So that type of thing. 0:18:12.676 --> 0:18:15.636 That's why I mentioned the body's important right now. But um, 0:18:15.916 --> 0:18:18.236 you've got whales. People have said she's been put in 0:18:18.276 --> 0:18:22.436 a whale. Well in the country, there's lots of whales 0:18:23.276 --> 0:18:25.676 and if and to look in whales, we had to 0:18:25.836 --> 0:18:28.196 We've looked in one whale. We had to get a 0:18:28.196 --> 0:18:33.276 camera from a local um a company, drop it down 0:18:33.316 --> 0:18:35.236 about fifty feet and look around in that whale. And 0:18:35.316 --> 0:18:37.836 of course we didn't find anything. But there's a lot 0:18:37.876 --> 0:18:40.516 that goes into trying to use the equipment and check 0:18:40.556 --> 0:18:44.476 out these places. It seems it seems overwhelming very much. 0:18:44.476 --> 0:18:46.836 So it is I go home with this, I think 0:18:46.836 --> 0:18:50.156 about it all the time. I have to try to 0:18:50.196 --> 0:18:52.436 set it aside because I have a family, you know, 0:18:52.476 --> 0:18:53.996 I have to try to set it aside and just 0:18:54.516 --> 0:18:56.916 not think about it all the time. But when you 0:18:57.036 --> 0:19:00.956 open up this Pandora's box of of what happened to Brooke, 0:19:01.716 --> 0:19:06.516 then you know there's fifty people that have my work 0:19:06.556 --> 0:19:10.756 cell phone number and they'll call me weekends nights if 0:19:10.756 --> 0:19:12.836 they have information. They don't mind calling, and I don't 0:19:12.836 --> 0:19:14.316 mind them calling me because I want to try to 0:19:14.316 --> 0:19:16.916 get everybody involved I can to see if we can, 0:19:17.036 --> 0:19:18.796 you know, find out. But it weighs on me a 0:19:18.836 --> 0:19:22.156 little bit. I think I've had hair turned gray and 0:19:22.196 --> 0:19:23.996 turned loose a lot over the past couple of years, 0:19:24.836 --> 0:19:29.996 given me both. I mean, the other thing that seems 0:19:29.996 --> 0:19:32.516 that they would kind of mess with my head is 0:19:32.556 --> 0:19:35.436 that there are folks walking around this town. You said, 0:19:35.516 --> 0:19:37.116 you said, one of the first things you said we 0:19:37.076 --> 0:19:39.116 said this interview is they're not a lot of secrets 0:19:39.516 --> 0:19:42.436 in this town. And yet we're talking about maybe the 0:19:42.476 --> 0:19:45.916 biggest secret right here. Because if what you're saying is right, 0:19:46.076 --> 0:19:49.476 there may be multiple people who know what happened to her. Now. 0:19:49.476 --> 0:19:52.396 I believe that. I believe multiple people know. I believe 0:19:52.836 --> 0:19:55.516 in my mind six eight ten people know what happened 0:19:55.556 --> 0:19:58.076 to her. And I believe there were accomplices and there 0:19:58.076 --> 0:20:03.916 were people that helped help move the body or help 0:20:04.196 --> 0:20:07.596 you know, bear the body. There's I believe a lot 0:20:07.596 --> 0:20:10.036 of people know. However, the people that they're scared of, 0:20:11.636 --> 0:20:14.916 the ones above them that are run that we're running 0:20:14.916 --> 0:20:17.636 the show back then, or that they help control over them, 0:20:18.076 --> 0:20:19.756 that's why they can't tell. And I believe a lot 0:20:19.796 --> 0:20:21.236 of the people that are several of the people that 0:20:21.276 --> 0:20:24.876 know are dead now. Ricky Shawn Shirley, he's dead now, 0:20:24.916 --> 0:20:26.516 and I believe he knew what happened to her. It 0:20:26.516 --> 0:20:30.876 sounds like your investigation would be helped by support from 0:20:30.876 --> 0:20:33.716 the county and maybe even the FEDS. Yeah, And to 0:20:33.756 --> 0:20:35.796 be honest with you, the FEDS have been here, They've 0:20:35.836 --> 0:20:39.076 talked to us, they're assisting us on some things. The 0:20:39.156 --> 0:20:41.996 FBI is they've worked with us a little bit when 0:20:41.996 --> 0:20:46.036 a halftime. The county has helped us on some things 0:20:46.516 --> 0:20:49.716 with some searches of some areas outside of our jurisdiction 0:20:49.756 --> 0:20:52.276 here in the city. We do not believe our bodies 0:20:52.276 --> 0:20:54.156 in this city. We believe it's out in the county. 0:20:55.156 --> 0:20:58.076 All these different locations that that Dopu mentioned as possibilities 0:20:58.076 --> 0:21:02.476 that they're all out in the county. Yeah, talk to 0:21:02.476 --> 0:21:05.316 me about a little bit about the Aster Reid situation. 0:21:05.356 --> 0:21:08.316 Obviously that's first of all, you weren't here in Champa's 0:21:08.356 --> 0:21:12.556 rest and it's kind of peripheral to to brock Hanston's story. 0:21:12.716 --> 0:21:15.556 But do you remember that unfolding at the time, What 0:21:15.636 --> 0:21:19.156 were thoughts about about all that? I do remember that unfolding, 0:21:19.516 --> 0:21:23.796 and when that happened, it really piqued my interest, and 0:21:23.876 --> 0:21:27.036 I actually called John back then and I said, John, 0:21:27.676 --> 0:21:30.916 what's going on? Is this a possibility, and he said, 0:21:31.436 --> 0:21:34.796 I'm checking, I'm checking, let me check, And I said, 0:21:34.836 --> 0:21:37.236 do what you gotta do. You know, I'm just because 0:21:37.236 --> 0:21:41.356 I knew John worked here. Um. I was an investigator 0:21:41.396 --> 0:21:43.996 in another agency at the time, and it really piqued 0:21:44.036 --> 0:21:45.956 my interest that Now, when you say a possibility, do 0:21:45.996 --> 0:21:47.996 you mean that that that this was really Brooke Hanson. 0:21:48.036 --> 0:21:50.116 It was up in New York at Columbia, right right? 0:21:50.116 --> 0:21:52.076 I mean it would it would have been um, it 0:21:52.116 --> 0:21:56.556 would have been very interesting. Um. You know, one tip 0:21:56.676 --> 0:22:00.276 back then in the Brooke Henston case was that that 0:22:00.436 --> 0:22:02.956 she left and went to California, and she just ran 0:22:02.996 --> 0:22:04.636 away to California and wanted to be on her own. 0:22:05.316 --> 0:22:07.876 So it was feasible that she could have possibly went 0:22:07.916 --> 0:22:10.636 to New York, you know, and stayed up there, so 0:22:10.676 --> 0:22:13.156 that it was a possibility. But then it didn't take 0:22:13.436 --> 0:22:17.596 much checking to determine the truth, obviously, But but it 0:22:17.636 --> 0:22:20.156 did pique my interest in the case, and I was 0:22:20.316 --> 0:22:22.796 very curious at the time and talked with John about 0:22:22.836 --> 0:22:25.556 it a little bit back then. What I mean, there 0:22:25.636 --> 0:22:28.116 was for a brief while there was a ton of 0:22:28.156 --> 0:22:32.236