WEBVTT - Episode 7 - Testifying Against El Chapo 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:06.640 I'm not a no Mexicans, you know, we're a foreign monster. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:11.840 I'm your own monster, born and raised in Chicago. And 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.880 it's easy to blame people from other countries. I'm here 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:21.120 in American cider. In order for this drug trafficking to exist, 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.200 it takes complicity in all. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.160 Levels, every aspect of life. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:31.640 Immigrants, you know, our own people here, you know, contribute, 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.720 even the agents getting you know. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:38.639 But I think that. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.440 Certain news media and everyone likes to blame the brown people. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.920 It's always someone else, you know, in this country. Is 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.040 just the way it feels. Get to blame people. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:03.080 Hey, it's the. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.160 Descent and I'm Charlie Webster. This is Surviving l Chapo. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:14.760 The Twins who brought down a drug lord Season two. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:25.440 I recorded some hits in my time, but nothing. They 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:26.720 brought down the drug kingpin. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.520 Yet, the recording that Pete Flores made in November fifteen, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.520 two thousand and eight, was the only recording the government 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.480 ever had to could pinned our chapel on drug trafficking 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:37.679 in the US. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.800 Almost exactly ten years later, Pete, known in the prison 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.200 system only as PF two two seven zero one four 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.200 two four, walked into a pat courtroom to testify against 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.720 the man he betrayed, a man he once saw as family. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.240 It took ten years from the Flores twins surrendering to 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.440 the US authorities to get our chapel in. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:01:59.240 Front of a jury. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.360 A week before Christmas twenty eighteen, Pete sat in the 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:08.440 witness stand nervously waiting for Hackeing Guzman Luera El Chappo 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:09.239 to walk in. 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:17.800 Let's see that they're they're learning chap point, and my 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.440 stomach is just like I can see him. He's like, 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.280 you know, he has like a glose so dark soup 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:30.160 kind of a red tie. He comes in and he's 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.880 shaking his he'll turning his hands and everyone and he's 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.519 waving to the sketch artist, you know, like I don't 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:41.880 know why he's comfortable, and he's still not looking at me. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:43.720 He's just like, you know, seeing him. 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.840 Really he looks very pale to me, like I've used 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:48.880 to see him in his content. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:49.600 He looks pale. 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.440 He has harry and he's kind of like we can't 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.520 have the tenth same text airing negat It just doesn't 0:02:55.520 --> 0:03:00.799 come right to the side, you know, I can see 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.200 that he just looks like funny to me, you know, 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.959 like I'm getting glimpses of him and he smiling, saying, 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:13.440 hurt everybody. Then he comes and he turns wrong and 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:19.040 he stares right at me. I looked back at him. 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:23.240 I'm looking at him and he's standing me. He looks 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.720 funny to me. For that moment in my my home vision, 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.840 he looked like like one of those funny digital kind 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.760 of like things like where his face looked blurred to me, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.480 and I kind of like almost pil it. Yeah, like 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.200 look at him again and then he just stands, keeps 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.960 his chest on. He's just he's just staring at him, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.880 and he won. I turned around. I looked away, and 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.400 my nerves were at the worst, like and I'm like, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.280 he's doing that on purpose, now, you know, He's just 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.080 I'm trying to intimidate you. Yeah, what was going through 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.160 your haste? It wasn't really just it was him and 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.200 it was just everything, you know, like this is real. 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.800 I'm here, This is not a bad dream, Like this 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.840 is so real. And I remember I look at him. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.920 He gold and when he looks at me, he he 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.960 hits his fingers like that like with his two fingers, 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.640 he kind of hits the table. You know, he's just 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:30.080 staring at me and look away again he sits dound 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.440 and no matter what when every time I love, he's 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:33.200 still staring at me. 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:36.800 He's just staring at me the whole time. He wouldn't 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:37.680 stop staring. 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:43.160 So then I see the courts filling up and all 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:48.200 the prosecutors are there, and you know it's busy, and 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.400 they bring in like the the legal secretary gets the 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.160 judge's clerk. That's the first time when the judge comes 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.159 in and we all rise, and I remember standing up 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:01.080 and everyone's staying at it, like everyone's just waiting for 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.280 us to look at each other, you know, to kind 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.120 of like see what we do our interaction. He had 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.080 that same serious face on him that he has a 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.920 real black stare. I'll never forget that. 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.000 How did it make you feel? Especially when he went 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:24.120 like like you tell you, like, what do you think? 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:24.400 That? Was? 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.000 Crossed my mind? Like what the hell does that mean? 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.080 Honestly, I got to a point where I started getting 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.960 little fusher the way I felt like, man, you know, 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:37.320 like I'm past this, you know, scary, like I can't 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.920 tell you like scared, like I'm not like I was 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.160 scared of him alone. 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.080 I'm saying, like, but everything he represents, yea, and everything 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:45.960 that party is. 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:46.800 A little bit big. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.760 But really I think that it was internal of what 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.640 I did, you know, what I was a part of 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.880 what I turned my back on and it seems to 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.680 be in my face again and the worst possible way, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:03.960 and thinking like, yeah, man, like you. 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.600 One day night, you probably do some horrific things if 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:11.279 you had to change. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:13.840 Did you feel guilty? 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:15.320 Guilty? 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.600 Mm, get guilty about the fact that you couperate against him. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.159 I didn't feel good being there, But he wasn't gonna 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:29.280 feel sorry for me, you know. If he had the chance, 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:30.800 he would have killed me or like, he would have 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:31.680 done worse things. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.919 That's the truth. That's not justifying. 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.680 I'm just saying, like, but it was so ugly and 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.200 just to be in that court room, be in a situation. 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.400 And if you would have told me that that thing, 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.560 you could do it a year more, an avoided two 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.960 years and more to avoid it. I would have foosen 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.000 to do two more years and avoid that, yeah, or 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.200 maybe longer. Who knows that you would My wife would 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:00.840 have probably killed me. Should have belinked you about it, 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.640 you know, But they just they stays with me like 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:09.040 I'm still like reliving in it being me like ugly feeling. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.120 I remember the courtroom, like starting the judge comes in, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.560 we all stand. Let me take an old lease, state 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.240 your name and spell that. You know, the court I 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.040 felt like I was gonna ps two two seven zero 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.920 one fortune for it. You gotta remember how to spell 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:34.680 your name again. And you know, having my the prosecutor 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.640 beginning his question and kind of introduction. 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:42.840 Of who I had, and I'm answering your questions. 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:45.720 But not taking them all the way in, you know 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:47.640 what I'm saying, Like it's kind of like I'm still 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:52.760 having recovered from the this feeling of them just staring 0:07:52.840 --> 0:08:00.240 at you, just staring at you down stop and part 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.080 comfortable with that, you know, when they admiring he was wanting, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:06.280 but when they're just staring at. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.440 You, judging you, and you're like, is it hard to 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.320 know why to put your own eyes? 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:12.040 Yeah? 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:13.680 Yeah, you look around, I'm looking at I'm trying not 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.520 to stare at you know, nothing you know and everything 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.240 at the same time, you know, but it's hard not to. 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.560 And then looking over Chap he's still staring at you. 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.120 And then he's whispering to the laws, you know, beside him, 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:33.160 and I can see the translators facing him, and I 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.720 can see her talking to him. Everything I'm saying, she's translating, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:42.440 you know, the questioning begins, and I never get completely comfortable, 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:49.040 and I'm nervous because I'm saying, like, you know, I'm 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.920 nervous already, and I'm speaking a kind of to a 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.360 person I've talked with before, and I'm saying the man, 0:08:54.840 --> 0:09:00.920 and who's the man, and like chapel, yeah, because we 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:02.440 were used to call him senor. 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.480 Yeah, so you were saying the man the man to 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:09.360 to people like that. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.800 I mean, my brother, and I wouldn't say that caravel, 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.920 you know then, you know, you know, oh yeah, like 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.400 with respect. You know. A couple of times I'm like, 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.240 I'm messing up a little bit because I'm nervous, and 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.640 a couple of times, I mean kind of the prosecutor 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.320 kind of messes up his question a little bit. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.160 And it's not boutique. Everything we went through was like 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:29.840 out the window. 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.559 So when I talk about things like my crimes and 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.960 me testifying and cooperating gainst you know, so many people, 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:43.920 and that was hard. I was embarrassed because we were 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:47.080 talking about the crimes that committed again in my world. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.240 You know, they praise you for the bad stuff, you know, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.720 but you know eyes of very regular people. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:52.000 It's like. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.319 And you're telling your stories to these people or judging you, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.319 and it's it's a lot of emotions you deal with, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.480 you know. I try to tell my story like as 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:10.520 normal as I could, bet but it's not normal, and 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:17.040 just answer the question and move on the conversations of 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.200 you know, how he started and my dad and all 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.240 that comes up, and the kind of stays with you know, 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.360 thinking of those things while he's staring at me. And 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.920 it was like, I'll comforble, you know, think you know, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.079 the threat to thinking what he's thinking of his mind, 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.679 who knows, you know, but it seemed like he was 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.800 entertained telling a story. And we had a lot of 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.120 like times where everyone just laughs because you're telling the 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.040 story you're confused with the meaning and stuff was you know, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.480 they tell me the keys, where'd you where were the keys? 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:55.880 Like in the back of the land. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.400 That no, that's the king the car keys, Oh those 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:06.439 keyters like you know, laughing, you know, the stuff like that. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.680 You know, it was like at the moment, I'm trying 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:11.640 to describe a situation as best as I could, and 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.760 the whole time he's staying at me. One of the 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.160 weirdest things that I felt while I was out there, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.400 and besides the nervousness and I wanted to throw up 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.319 right there, was that the prosecutor pulled out of evidence 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.920 back and he holds it up with both hands. 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:35.520 Do you see this? And it's much like evidence, and 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:37.560 he's holding it up for the whole courtroom to see. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.719 The prosecutor is holding it up and and he's like 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:46.120 permission to approach the witness he called it. He puts 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.880 the scissors on my right in front of him. He 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.920 grabs the cisor back and he cuts the envelope open 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.679 and I could see it's like a plastic bag and 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:02.120 some cellophane or something wrapped up, and he's going through 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.800 the bag and he goes out. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:10.720 A phone and he's like here. 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.920 He hands it to me, and after all, in years 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.000 or not, I like a phone in my he gives 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:18.520 me a phone Because that little moment, I'm lost, like 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.680 I'm looking at the phone like, wow, I wonder if 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:21.760 I could call Avian on it. 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:28.600 But it's the phone that that chap called me. Then 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:29.480 I had probleb with me. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.520 And it's like I couldn't get over that, like that 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.600 I'm holding this phone again, you know after so long. 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:46.200 That was just like shocking to me. And the things 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:47.880 like that phone signed even. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:54.400 Stright ten years and he's like, can you turn it on? Yeah, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.080 that's so it's not gonna work. It be the end 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.720 of a ten years then. But they have all put 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.559 up on the screen. They have the the call list 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.080 and all that, and I remember I would always put 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.880 me like thore my own number on the phone, just 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:17.280 okase that needed it, and I had stored signor I 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.880 put Sennora as a contact on the number you called me. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.160 And then the call log and they went just randomly 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.400 went through some numbers and the like who's you know, 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:32.640 there's another call, there's a call on this day? Do 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.840 you can you tell me the date? And like, yeah, 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.360 it's the day. And they're like, what's the number three one, two, five, 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.520 eight eight, two three hundred? Can you play to the court, 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.080 like bout that number? Did you recognize them? 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.360 Like yeah, and what is it? I'm like, it's the number, 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.120 it's the number for Empire Carpeting Fiday day two three 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:51.680 hundred Empire. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.600 Yeah, I had to explain that when I would set 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.640 up these phones, like new phone burning phones that would 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.640 just to check the phone make sure they're working like internationally, 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:03.640 that I would call Empire carpeting. 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.319 I don't care what time it was. I just called. 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.200 Empire calls there your knife. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.760 And as soon as I heard the Empire's carpeting whatever, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.640 a little recording and all my numbers would that I 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.360 set up would have this three and two eight two 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.800 three hundred, and they all laughed. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.560 You know, So what did that tell you when you 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:34.200 did that? I told you that the frame works. So 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.840 every time you call that number of different perm Yeah, the. 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.560 Phone, the phone was working properly and I could give 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:46.400 it away to someone. And and that was the phone 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:51.440 that the chapel called me, and I recorded the conversation with. 0:14:59.520 --> 0:14:59.560 H. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.600 I think that that that was like towards the end 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.440 of that of the evening, like it was getting late 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:25.440 and we're going to bring till the next day, and 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.640 I was just like exhausted and tired of being nervous 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:30.640 and sick and everything. 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:36.000 I remember when we get up, I don't even turn 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.280 around just the open door. I just walk up, go 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:39.920 back to the. 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.840 Jerry room, and my prosecutor comes in, like, you're doing great, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:46.600 You're doing great, don't worry about it. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.040 You know tomorrow will continue. 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.400 We should finish up by tomorrow sometime in the afternoon, 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:53.800 but we're gonna start early. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.280 So by the time I get back to the isn't 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:00.680 that evening? 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.320 Like everyone knows that. Just Bro, we see you on TV. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.920 You testified, blah blah blah. Yeah, allow the news and 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.400 don't local news and what was your own reaction. I 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:16.400 didn't want to talk about it. I just want to 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.880 call my family, my kills and check on the meal 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:22.480 and try to get some sleep. 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.240 I remember the next thing, it was just even a 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.600 little more nervous iking thinking that and eventually we're gonna 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:38.400 come to cross examination, you know, yeah, expecting the word 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.960 from me, Like, if it's hard to do it with 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.640 the people that you've gotten comfortable with, can I imagine 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:52.280 doing it with people who are there to attack you. Yeah. 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.400 I remember thinking to my head like, regardless of what 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.600 anyone says, I mean, you could say whatever you want 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:01.920 about me, and I'm not I enjoy I made mistakes 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.240 and the baby A Bentley, the billboard and all those things, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.480 and and I was in trouble while I was in prison, 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:13.359 did no different things. And that's his voice on that recording. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.919 There was a massive amount of the drug season by 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:24.639 the government money. And you can't get away from that. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:32.920 You know. It's hard to like to tell, you know, 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.959 a recording that it's lying. I would be like, they 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.360 don't even need me. They just prescially play on that recording. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:40.879 That's it. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.280 So we go back the next day, same routine, you know, 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:54.480 and same nerves. Nothing got easier. A lot of people 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.240 man just packed. Everyone just in there, you know. And 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.800 those days I went wife was in a quirtum. There's 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:07.480 only turn today. His wife was in a quareum. We 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.359 kind of finish off, like some of my testimony for 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.000 the governmently they placed some tas. 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:21.720 Of course we get to the tips a yeah, so much. 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.639 I mean, because they're telling you, like, what does it 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.960 mean when you said this to him and said that Tom, 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:27.720 and you're explaining. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.240 Tom Pete had to explain to an anonymous Durry exactly 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.680 what the discussion on the tapes meant and how he 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.080 had to lie to El Chapo to keep. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:37.600 Him on the phone. 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.840 The call was the smoking gun, the evidence that demonstrated 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.200 El Chappo's connection to the supply of drugs coming into 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:45.720 the US. 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:48.720 Pete had to lie about the quality of. 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.440 A shipment of heroin he'd received, saying it was a 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.879 bad batch, so that El Chapo wouldn't be suspicious about 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:56.440 why Pete was asking for more. 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.520 So soon imagine if. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:00.800 How you. 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.720 He goes she was a. 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:19.520 Girl thinking, so I had a like, explained to the girl. 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:21.800 I already picked him up, but I wanted to tell 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.119 you that I wanted to renegotiate the practice. It was 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.600 weird because I already had them on mind possession. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:38.360 You know, Okay, just get them, yeah, wins, don't care. 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:42.760 But he was open to it, you know. And I 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:44.439 had a light and explained him that. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.080 I had received very poor quality killed the heroine and 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:54.240 doubt his were super good. In reality, all the heroines 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.040 we picked up was over ninety pure. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:04.119 And he hurted me out. And I remember. 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:09.320 Discussing with him that not only those twenty kilos of 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:14.560 here when I had already picked up but telling him, look, 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.280 if you could send me like forty a month, that 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.280 would work fine. And I need some right now, do 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:20.760 you have something? He's like, Look, I don't have some 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.000 right now, but next week got gimmt it. And me 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.960 having to say, well, I was lying to him. It 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.240 just gave him to talk about it right in front 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:35.120 of his face was not easy. I felt sh like wrong, 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.000 you know what I'm saying I did. I felt like 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:38.200 sh shitty about it. 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:42.840 Was he still staring at you? 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:44.600 Yeah, he was staring at me the whole time. 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.080 I could see him like mo moving his lips around. 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.440 He never stopped staring at me. Her Glass speak to 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.000 his attorneys and the without taking his gaze off of me. 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.160 He didn't win any star contest. And for maybe they've 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.720 bellion cancers and you want you want again, I'm playing 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:15.080 with my kids sometimes. Yeah, And you know that was 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.040 hard going to that whole conversation explaining and then only 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:22.000 that was I was wondering what he was thinking, what 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:22.960 he was feeling about that. 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:30.440 Assistant US Attorney Adam Fels led Pete's questioning, then turned 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.720 him over to the defense to be cross examined. Jay's 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.400 ex attorney, Jeffrey Littman, was not allowed to cross examine 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.000 Pete because of the conflict of interest, so Instead, another 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.000 of El Chapo's three man defense teams stepped up, William Papora. 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.440 Okay, here we go. I'm like, okay, this is the rule. 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:55.040 This is now, we're really getting into this. His defense 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.920 was that I somehow altered and take myself. I remember 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:06.080 feel like you should give Chape the money back. You 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.920 knew this was coming for years, and that's how you 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:09.800 could have said. 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:12.720 You've claimed me. 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:18.200 Back to Rolling Stone interview that Ruins magazine interview with Champagne, Yeah, 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.480 like Metro it if the voice is sounded exactly alike, 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:23.000 I'm mgnon. 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:25.439 I just thought it was a weak argument. 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.320 The focus of El Chapo's defense was that it wasn't 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.920 El Chapo's voice on the recording that Pete made, and 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:39.080 that there was a conspiracy against him. Everyone else was corrupt, 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:45.440 including US drug agents and even two Mexican presidents. His 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:49.320 defense claimed that El Mayo was the actual boss of 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.600 the Cineloa cartel and had overseen operations for the last 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:58.080 two decades, and that actually El Chapo was a nobody 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.840 with a second grade education and for years had just 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:03.480 been used as escapegoats. 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:08.840 The argument that travel was in the real boss, that's 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:13.200 dressing anything. It's Mario Sambala. I'm trying to explain something. 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.840 I believe that they're both the Roal boss and that 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:17.960 they ran the organization with my brother and I did 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.640 that whatever it was they benefited. Both was and whether 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:22.520 you talk to my brother, you talk to me, it 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:27.119 was the same thing. And that's why I view both individuals, 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:32.920 you know, and explain that like my brother and I 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:35.480 were like part of the business part of this, you know, 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:40.280 this car told there's different tiers of different you know, 0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:45.480 positionship people, and not everyone's a soldier and not everyone 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:49.800 was a boss. I'm trying to explain that to the jury. 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.400 The defense was throwing everything they could at Pete, even 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:57.560 questioning him about the deal he got for his cooperation. 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.119 They specifically brought up the fact that it's part of 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:05.960 his cooperation, his wife, Viv received an immunity deal, which 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.960 meant that she couldn't be charged for anything relating to 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:10.879 her husband's criminal activity. 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:16.000 I'm quite it probably my wife and immunity, like your 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:20.760 wife was in charge. No, she wasn't. She was given 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:24.760 immunity because she wasn't charged for a reason. 0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:25.080 You know. 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:26.600 We we have the debate out. 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:30.720 I don't think that anybody would come in to cooperate 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.400 and not protect her own family at. 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:37.800 First, and they brought up one of the three bees, 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:41.520 the baby, and how Viv became pregnant while Pete was 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:42.040 in prison. 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:45.880 When he started trying to bring up the pregnancy things, 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:49.520 everyone laughed like, like you should so, like how long. 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:53.119 I'm like, it wasn't long, I promise you. Everyone's laughing. 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:56.560