1
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,720
Speaker 1: Quody dits, but Joseph's gotten more. I've always had an

2
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:13,120
Speaker 1: affinity for the phrase looking for a needle in a haystack,

3
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 1: and it seems extreme, it really does. You know when

4
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,360
Speaker 1: you when you first hear that that term, you're thinking,

5
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 1: my lord, how you know how granular is this bit

6
00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 1: of information that you're looking for that it is this

7
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,440
Speaker 1: complex in order to kind of, I don't know, tease

8
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,559
Speaker 1: it out of everything else that surrounds it. And I've

9
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: worked cases like that where you walk onto a scene

10
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,199
Speaker 1: I have I have vivid memories and these are the

11
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 1: worst vivid memories of walking into death scenes of people

12
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,159
Speaker 1: that have died in their apartments and they are orders

13
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: and it's a nightmare scenario. It's as bad as you

14
00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 1: might think that it is, because you're trying to understand

15
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: wise person is dead, and it would be very easy

16
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 1: to dismiss them and say, well, they had these issues

17
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,759
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. But still you never know

18
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:12,399
Speaker 1: what is hidden within those canyons of stacked newspapers and

19
00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,959
Speaker 1: old magazines and saved beer cans and all manner of

20
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,479
Speaker 1: things I've seen in these apartments. Today, though, we're going

21
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 1: to talk about a case that's currently in the news,

22
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 1: or what we think might be cases. We don't really

23
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: know yet. But what we do know is that authorities

24
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 1: are now apparently on the hunt, on the search of

25
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:46,120
Speaker 1: their own local haystack, looking for not one, but maybe

26
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,880
Speaker 1: two needles. What I'm talking about is the former Zoro

27
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 1: ranch in New Mexico, not too far away from Santa Fe,

28
00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 1: the two young women were allegedly murdered and buried. Coming

29
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 1: to you from the beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University,

30
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags. I

31
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: thought of you, Dave, when I saw an article drop,

32
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 1: and it was I guess a week ago about this

33
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 1: very topic that authorities were going, and about a week

34
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 1: or two prior to that, they said that they were

35
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 1: on the scent, are thinking about going. And this harkened

36
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,959
Speaker 1: back to an earlier conversation that you and I had had,

37
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,040
Speaker 1: what was it two years ago? I guess where I said,

38
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm no profit, no profit, all right, But what I

39
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 1: said was they got to check that place out, because

40
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 1: if I was looking for a dude that had had

41
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,960
Speaker 1: in their custody allegedly young women who could not be traced,

42
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 1: perhaps from Eastern European countries. Where am I going to

43
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 1: try to get rid of them? A huge body that

44
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 1: couldn't speak English, you know, that couldn't you know, really

45
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 1: take care of themselves in the vastness of America. And

46
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 1: my lord, when I found out about that in ranch,

47
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 1: I was thinking, that's a prime spot, dude.

48
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,920
Speaker 2: Well, for those of you who don't know why, we're

49
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 2: talking about Jeffrey Epstein and his Zoro Ranch in New Mexico.

50
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,400
Speaker 2: In the Treasure Trove dump of documents of Epstein was

51
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:38,120
Speaker 2: an email, an anonymous email that was sent to a broadcaster,

52
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 2: a conservative talk show host named Eddie Aragon in Albuquerque,

53
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,360
Speaker 2: New Mexico. It was sent to him in November of

54
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, three months after the death of Jeffrey Epstein,

55
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 2: and in this email, a person who was on staff

56
00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 2: at Zoro Ranch, Jeffrey Epstein's Zoro Ranch, writes in this

57
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 2: letter that there were two young foreign girls that died

58
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 2: at the ranch during rough fetish sex. They were strangled,

59
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,039
Speaker 2: died a strangulation during rough sex, and their bodies were

60
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 2: buried on part of Zoro Ranch property, specifically an area

61
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 2: of the ranch that is leased by Epstein's company from

62
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 2: the state of New Mexico for cattle grazing. So this

63
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,919
Speaker 2: very specific thing is told in email form to this

64
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 2: talk show host. And by the way, Joe the person

65
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 2: also in this email, offered to share seven videos that

66
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 2: the employee took of people at Zoro Ranch having sex

67
00:04:54,360 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 2: with underage girls. And this individual offered to sell these

68
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,640
Speaker 2: thumb drive of these seven videos and exchanged for one bitcoin.

69
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 2: Now I looked it up November of twenty nineteen, one

70
00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 2: bitcoin cost about eight grand, so eight thousand dollars. Well,

71
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,920
Speaker 2: Eddie Aragon did not pay the money. As a matter

72
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,559
Speaker 2: of fact, he didn't reply to the email. He called

73
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 2: the FBI. He thought that the email was very specific enough,

74
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 2: and so he turned it over to the FBI and

75
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 2: then never heard anything more about it. You wouldn't have

76
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,040
Speaker 2: heard about it now except for the email dump, I

77
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 2: mean the in document dump from Epstein that has come out.

78
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,159
Speaker 2: And that's why right now plans are being made to

79
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,840
Speaker 2: search what used to be called Zoro Ranch owned by

80
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein, and by the way, he owned it from

81
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three until after his death, his company still

82
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,280
Speaker 2: owned it. They finally sold it and it's changed hand

83
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 2: twice since then.

84
00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,719
Speaker 1: But it was roughly within his within his a state

85
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 1: for about twenty years, right, Yes, it was, because I

86
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 1: mean his estate was settled in twenty three. Is that?

87
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,080
Speaker 1: Am I accurate about that? I think it approximates that

88
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,279
Speaker 1: at least. And I think the question is how much

89
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,480
Speaker 1: time did he actually stay there? Because this is what

90
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,839
Speaker 1: I do. I don't know a lot about rich folks,

91
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 1: but this is something I do know, is that there's

92
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 1: the reason they're rich. They have the ability to hold

93
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,839
Speaker 1: on to their money the way other people might not

94
00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 1: think about it. And so they will purchase things, you know,

95
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 1: like ranches, okay, because they can shelter money there. And

96
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I wouldn't know if Jeffrey Epstein

97
00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 1: could tell the difference between a Longhorn or Holstein. I

98
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: have no idea, you know, you know what I'm saying.

99
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,159
Speaker 1: He's not one of these people that strikes me that

100
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, kind of came up through the roots, you know,

101
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,720
Speaker 1: you know, the of the common clay of people out there.

102
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 1: You know that he would understand. But what he does understand,

103
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 1: or apparently understood on some level, is that you have

104
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,680
Speaker 1: shelter money and so it's not surprising, you know, that

105
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 1: you would have a purchase of a place like this.

106
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,840
Speaker 1: And my lord, this thing is massive. I mean I'm

107
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,679
Speaker 1: talking okay, roughly eight thousand acres right.

108
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 2: Well, it depends, Joe, It depends on who you're actually

109
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: talking to. And again now it goes back to, well,

110
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 2: who you're going to believe? Which source do you believe

111
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 2: it's either seven thousand acres or thirteen thousand square acres?

112
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, but it's a lot. It's

113
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,880
Speaker 2: a lot of property. What we do know, though, is

114
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 2: that Epstein acquired the property from the former governor of

115
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 2: New Mexico, Bruce King. Epstein bought it in ninety three,

116
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 2: and then he leased twelve hundred and forty four acres

117
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:56,640
Speaker 2: of grazing cattle land. Grazing land. Rather, he leased this

118
00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 2: land from the State of New Mexico in ninety seven

119
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,040
Speaker 2: and ninety nine. The reason I'm pointing those two things

120
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 2: out to you. Nineteen ninety seven and nineteen ninety nine,

121
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 2: the State of New Mexico leased the property to Jeffrey Epstein. Now,

122
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:17,000
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein was accused by Annie Farmer in nineteen ninety six.

123
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 2: Annie and her sister Maria Farmer were taken in by

124
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 2: Gillenn Maxwell, just like all the other girls were trafficked.

125
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,079
Speaker 2: And Annie Farmer, underage which was fifteen I think at

126
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,839
Speaker 2: the time, ended up in New Mexico. She's an artie painter,

127
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 2: you know, art thing. And anyway, long story, longer, go

128
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 2: look up Annie Farmer and her sister Marie, because Annie

129
00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,360
Speaker 2: Farmer spoke out early and often, and so whenever I

130
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,760
Speaker 2: heard about Virginia Goufrey and people like that, Annie Farmer

131
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 2: was suffering PTSD way before any of those things came along,

132
00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 2: and was standing up saying, hey, you got to put

133
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 2: a stop to this guy. Nobody did, Joe. And as

134
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, even after Andy Farmer made those claims,

135
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 2: the state of New Mexico leased land to Jeffrey Epstein.

136
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 2: It was only in twenty nineteen after his death that

137
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 2: the Attorney general or vice attorney general in New Mexico said, oh,

138
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 2: we got to stop this. This is horrible, and so

139
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,160
Speaker 2: they canceled the lease, the land lease. But the thing

140
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,439
Speaker 2: about the land lease show and the reason it's important

141
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,920
Speaker 2: to know how big it is and where it is

142
00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 2: is because that's where according to the email, received by

143
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 2: the talk show hosting Albu Greek. That's where we would

144
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:42,880
Speaker 2: find the bodies of two young girls, foreigners, foreigner, just

145
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,440
Speaker 2: like you said we would. Joe, just like you said,

146
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,320
Speaker 2: you wondered what they did with him, and I at

147
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 2: the time, I thought, Ah, he's probably right, but I

148
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,440
Speaker 2: don't get it. I didn't see it. I just I

149
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,840
Speaker 2: could not grasp that. Now I do. You were right along?

150
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Lord knows. I don't want to be right

151
00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 1: about any of this stuff. You know, in the perfect world,

152
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 1: I wish none of it was going on because I

153
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 1: don't want to pollute my brain any further with it,

154
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 1: you know, because there's you know, there's evil that just

155
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 1: surrounds this whole thing, and you know, I have my

156
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 1: own thoughts about, you know, the idea that it's rooted

157
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:30,200
Speaker 1: in demonic forces as far as I'm concerned. And the

158
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is that, uh, if you're

159
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 1: if you are involved, and this is Dave, let's face it.

160
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,839
Speaker 1: Let's look at this. Let's look at this from an

161
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 1: investigative standpoint instead of let's try to detach ourselves just

162
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,400
Speaker 1: for a moment from uh, the emotion of it all,

163
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,679
Speaker 1: and look at it from. If you're investigating a case

164
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 1: like this, edits root. This is a criminal enterprise, and

165
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 1: you've got multiple conspirators that are engaged in this behavior,

166
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,439
Speaker 1: whatever it is where they're to trafficking, whether it is solicitation,

167
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 1: whether it was acquisition, and anything else that's peripheral to that.

168
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 1: And that's the way the police have to approach this

169
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 1: because it's really really easy. And understand, don't get me wrong,

170
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,679
Speaker 1: I'm not diminishing the victims. It's really easy to get

171
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 1: caught up in the in the emotion of it. But

172
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: the emotion is not going to get you into court.

173
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 1: And well, it might get you into court, but it's

174
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 1: not going to push you across the finish line when

175
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,320
Speaker 1: it comes to proof, and you're going to have to

176
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 1: have scientific proof. You're going to have to have the

177
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,079
Speaker 1: circumstantial bits and pieces that are going to come together

178
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,080
Speaker 1: that are going to form this mosaic. You know that,

179
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 1: you know that those that are left can be held

180
00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 1: to account, Okay, and so when you my point here

181
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,360
Speaker 1: is that if you're engaging in this behavior, you're acquiring

182
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,200
Speaker 1: these and people all right, regardless of their age, all right,

183
00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: you're requiring you're acquiring people to satisfy this criminal uh,

184
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 1: this criminal behavior. All right, what are you going to

185
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,080
Speaker 1: do with them afterwards? And if you and as we know,

186
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 1: people that are psychopaths like this, and this is pure psychopathy,

187
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,960
Speaker 1: they can dehumanize fellow humans to the point where they

188
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 1: become garbage and they're easy to dispose of. They you know,

189
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 1: they satisfy whatever need that they might have and they're

190
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 1: going to move on to the next. It's not like,

191
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,240
Speaker 1: you know that there's any kind of intimacy or love

192
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,920
Speaker 1: or respect or anything that's involved in this. This comes

193
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 1: down to it always has come down to the victims.

194
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 1: And you know, if you're if you're a grown adult,

195
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,120
Speaker 1: you do what you want to do, you know. But

196
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:52,880
Speaker 1: we're talking about my focus. Here are individuals that are

197
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 1: our kids, you know, and how were they acquired? And

198
00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 1: then how can they protect themselves in the face of

199
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,720
Speaker 1: all this, particularly when you've got very powerful names that

200
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,200
Speaker 1: are involved in all of this. How are you going

201
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 1: to protect yourself? You're some kid from Eastern Europe or

202
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, Western Europe, wherever the hell you're from,

203
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,200
Speaker 1: and you can't speak the language, and you're certainly at

204
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 1: a disadvantage somebody's been waving cash in front of your face.

205
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 1: We're going to take care of you for the rest

206
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,360
Speaker 1: of your life, or we're going to set you up

207
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 1: in something. And the next thing you know, you're out

208
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,880
Speaker 1: in New Mexico and it looks like you've been set

209
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,360
Speaker 1: down on the surface of Mars, and surrounding you, as

210
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 1: far as the eye can see, is nothing but tumbleweed

211
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:43,440
Speaker 1: and calleche and a vast mansion and a man who

212
00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 1: has designs on what he's going to do with you,

213
00:13:47,200 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 1: and none of it is good. I don't talk a

214
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 1: lot about my son on air, but I gotta I

215
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 1: gotta tell you something real quick, brother. I had a

216
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 1: conversation with my son, who's a geospacial scientist, and I

217
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 1: had to have that conversation with him before we came

218
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 1: to air so that I could understand some things, because

219
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, his his area of expertise is looking at landforms,

220
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 1: all right, and using all kinds of modalities to do that.

221
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 1: And of course, proud Papa, I think that he's absolutely brilliant,

222
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, and he is. And so I had a

223
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: conversation with him, not so much as a father to son,

224
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 1: but as an old you know, forensic scientist to somebody

225
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:56,400
Speaker 1: that deals in in geo analysis, you know, and those

226
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: tools that those people use.

227
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,040
Speaker 2: And I was like, son with analysis is to well, yeah, we're.

228
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,480
Speaker 1: Taking you know, taking taking imagery of landforms and trying

229
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 1: to understand them, you know, from from a bird's of view,

230
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 1: if you will. And that's kind of the narrow way

231
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 1: or very broad broadway, not narrow way broadway of explaining

232
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 1: it to somebody that doesn't.

233
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 2: You know.

234
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll have dinner with him and Dave, He'll start

235
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 1: speaking to me and it's like, what are you speaking in,

236
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 1: you know, in ancient Greek? I have no idea what

237
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 1: you're saying, but it's fascinating because he's he's certainly got

238
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,520
Speaker 1: a lens on the world that no one else has.

239
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,400
Speaker 1: And you know he you know, when you're talking about

240
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, geo information systems and all these sorts of

241
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 1: things that and you know, reading satellite imagery and light

242
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 1: art and all these things that drone stuff, you know,

243
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: it's it's mind blowing. And the technology, you know, we

244
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 1: talk a lot about technology that we have, you know,

245
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,840
Speaker 1: in in forensics now, but you begin to think about,

246
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that they can do with satellite

247
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 1: imagery and uh, photo imagery and all that stuff, and

248
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,600
Speaker 1: that's the world that he you know, that he inhabits.

249
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,560
Speaker 1: So I pose this to him. I was like, I

250
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: was like, son, let's say you had to tackle a

251
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:13,560
Speaker 1: problem and you were trying to gather information about a

252
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 1: large parcel of land, and that you were doing this,

253
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 1: I don't know for whatever reason, intelligence gathering or maybe

254
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 1: you're going to do an assessment of land for say

255
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 1: somebody's going to purchase land, which is something that they do.

256
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 1: They do all these things. What's the best way to

257
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 1: tackle this? I said, are you going to use satellite imagery?

258
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: And he's like, okay, Dad, here's that works. He said.

259
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 1: What you're going to do is you're going to go

260
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 1: back and you're going to gather what kind of satellite

261
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 1: imagery existed of the Zoro ranch prior to him purchasing it,

262
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 1: if there is anything that predates you know that nineteen

263
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 1: ninety three, and then you work forward from that, any

264
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 1: kind of imagery where there's been passovers where you can

265
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,840
Speaker 1: kind of see the change in the topography, you know,

266
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 1: the way the landforms, you know, like building structure, How

267
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 1: did that impact you know, the local land. Also, if

268
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 1: you've got animals out there, are they impacting the environment?

269
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 1: All this stuff is hydrology, you know he talks about,

270
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 1: and you know, just all this stuff that is just

271
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,639
Speaker 1: so far beyond my pay grade. But it made me, really,

272
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 1: you know, have have a moment of clarity about it,

273
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 1: because I kind of sense that this was the case.

274
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,439
Speaker 1: But he was talking about how if you're going to

275
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: try to validate something, if you're going to send in

276
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: military terms information down range, you know, to to pass

277
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 1: it on to people that are in the intel world,

278
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 1: you have to know from where you're coming from before

279
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,280
Speaker 1: you know where you're going really and to assess that

280
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 1: land and like if anything has changed. And you know,

281
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: he took me through the steps of this. It's like,

282
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 1: would you use like satellite imagery? He said, yeah, in

283
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,280
Speaker 1: the beginning you would. But he said, what's really critical

284
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,399
Speaker 1: about a land form like this is that is going

285
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 1: to be multi spectral analysis cameras on either planes or

286
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 1: drones flying over where they're kind of going back and

287
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 1: forth and back and forth, and that gets you an

288
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,400
Speaker 1: idea of what you're looking like looking at in the present,

289
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 1: and you go back and you compare that to satellite

290
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 1: imagery that may or may not exist. I don't know

291
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,119
Speaker 1: if it does or not. And then you see how

292
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,280
Speaker 1: the land changes, because when people introduce themselves into a space,

293
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 1: they're going to begin clearing space, all right, And the

294
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 1: land out there I mentioned in our Clothes in the

295
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,520
Speaker 1: first segment, I talked about Collichi Colichi and you had

296
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 1: an experience with this, Dave. I know, having lived in

297
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 1: New Mexico for a while, is this hard clay? And

298
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 1: it is. It's I would say that it's like a

299
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,880
Speaker 1: naturally occurring to asphalt. Almost. If you were to try

300
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 1: to put a shovel to it, good luck, because it

301
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,879
Speaker 1: doesn't give. It doesn't There's not a lot to give

302
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 1: with it. So if you're going to try to do

303
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 1: anything with the composition of the soil out there, you

304
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,479
Speaker 1: better break out the heavy equipment. And this brings us

305
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: back to this place being a ranch, right, you don't

306
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 1: have you're not going to have as much change there,

307
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: for instance, as say if you went to the beach,

308
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 1: if you went to the Gulf coast, all right, and

309
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 1: you've got shifting sand, you've got rain pouring torrential rain

310
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: that changes, you know, the hydrology around there. Will change

311
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 1: everything in a second. All you got to do is

312
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: look at people that have beach houses that are no

313
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: longer beach houses or waterhouses, you know, because things change

314
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: like that not so much here things stay in place.

315
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: And so from an investigative standpoint, if I'm looking for bodies, Dave,

316
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, this is a true opportunity because you

317
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:06,679
Speaker 1: might be looking at a real entumbement here. Okay, where

318
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: because the nature of the soil that you're talking about

319
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: breaking up and digging, because what we've heard is that

320
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 1: these bodies are buried, right. We haven't heard burned, we had,

321
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 1: you know, thrown away. We've heard buried in the cattle

322
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: grazing land. In the cattle grazing land. Yeah, and I

323
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: don't know if that, if that, And again I'm no geologist, okay,

324
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: which I think they need to have one on the team,

325
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 1: by the way, just FYI hear if that changes from

326
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: say some ridgeline, where the geology will change, you know,

327
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: because it'll rise up out of an area and you

328
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 1: don't know what kind of stone is underlying all that

329
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 1: and all that stuff that geologists get into. But just

330
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,199
Speaker 1: digging a hole out there and putting a body or

331
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: bodies into these into these these holes that I still contend.

332
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: In order to big a dig, a big enough one,

333
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: you're going to have to have heavy equipment. You're going

334
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: to have at least a bobcat probably in order to

335
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 1: facilitate this. And again going back to the fact that

336
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: this is a ranch. If you have a ranch, you

337
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: have to have heavy equipment. All right, And what was

338
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: it you said, You said something interesting about the ranch

339
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 1: that they actually had that people might be interested to find.

340
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, this place is so big. Just so you know,

341
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 2: the house that was built on this property by Epstein

342
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 2: is twenty six thousand square feet. That's the house they built.

343
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 2: Joe his living room in this big house as supposedly

344
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 2: as big as my home. That's how big of a house.

345
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 2: But this property is so large, with such a large house,

346
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 2: there's a helipad, there's a private landing strip where you

347
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: can land a jet beyond that shit they have, don't Yeah,

348
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 2: you know you've got the smaller jets. I'm not talking

349
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: about a seven thirty seven.

350
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: But you know, no, no, I know what you're saying.

351
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: But that's differ sent a cub pint crop.

352
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a piper cub it's not one of

353
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 2: those prop planes, but all of that Joe, and they

354
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: have their own fire not their own fire department. You've

355
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 2: got a fire house. That means there's a fire truck

356
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: and there's the means for putting out fires, which, by

357
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 2: the way, when you're out in an area like that,

358
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: you do have occasional wildfires that come up.

359
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 1: You know.

360
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 2: There's a movie that came out several years ago called

361
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: Hell or High Water. Yeah, and Jeff Bridges, he places

362
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 2: Texas Ranger and he's driving. They're trying to catch his brothers,

363
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 2: who are Robin Banks and Ben Foster and Chris Oh.

364
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 2: It's a great movie. Yeah, the guy that did well.

365
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: I'm not going down that path right now, but there's

366
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 2: a scene in it where they're headed towards a bank

367
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: and they come upon these guys driving cattle on horseback

368
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: and there's a fire. There's a fire on the planes

369
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: and they're driving the cattle down towards the river and

370
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: the cowboy tells the sheriff. He goes, no wonder, my

371
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 2: kids won't get into this. Twenty twenty and I'm on

372
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: a I'm on a horse driving cattle down to the

373
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 2: river to get away from a fire. Well, yeah, and

374
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 2: Jeff Bridges' partner says, show we call it in and

375
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 2: he looks and he goes, who these boys are on

376
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 2: their own? And that's why Jeffrey Epstein had his own

377
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 2: fire department out there with a truck and the means

378
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 2: to put out fires because if they get started, they

379
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: will go for a long while before they just run

380
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,719
Speaker 2: out of fuel. So that's how big this area was

381
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: that he had his own fire Yeah, his own firehouse.

382
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. And look, if you if you're looking to do

383
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: away or get rid of something, you know, how many

384
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: cases have we cover, brother where you know, we're talking

385
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 1: about this member of remains where people are putting them

386
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: in trash bags and are alongside of the road, and

387
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: you could you could just in for somebody out there

388
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: and nobody's going to come along. No one's going to

389
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: find it, you know, it's it's out there. But the

390
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: fact that they went to the trouble of doing roughly

391
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: and entombment here, which is bizarre to me in this environment,

392
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: why would you choose to do if that's if that

393
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: is in fact you securely Yeah, yeah, Well all right, Joe,

394
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: let me ask you something because you know, you and

395
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: I have talked about as bodies.

396
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: As they degrade, Yeah, animals feast, yeah. And if you

397
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: don't bury a body, there are wild animals that will

398
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 2: take the remains and scatter them. Now, even if you've

399
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: got a lot of acreage, even if you've got a

400
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: lot of area, you are leaving something to chance if

401
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 2: you just leave it, leave the remains on top, so

402
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: other than chopping it up and burning, which not everybody

403
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 2: has the stomach for. And most of the stories we

404
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: do about those people that get caught. So if we

405
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: go to down to this and think, okay, we've got

406
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: two young girls foreign two young foreign girls have died

407
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 2: strangled during rough secks, and Epstein needs to get rid

408
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: of the bodies. And by the way, it was at

409
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: the behest of Gilain Maxwell Madame g is how she

410
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: was referred to, that the bodies were disposed of, buried

411
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: in that grassy area that was supposed to be for cattle,

412
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: which they didn't have any cattle to graze, by the way.

413
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: So I'm wondering if the land that has the grass

414
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: would be different than the grass over here by the

415
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 2: arroyo with the tumbleweeds, and the lizards, and you know,

416
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: I'm guessing it would be I mean it.

417
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: Would yeah, I would think that it would be. Geologically,

418
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: some of it's going to shift. And and that's why

419
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: whatever team that they're putting together, and this is started

420
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: in the office of the State Attorney General, all right,

421
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: the whole impetus behind this, and whatever their rationale is,

422
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I'm just glad somebody's moving on it.

423
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: But I can tell you this from an investigative standpoint,

424
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: this is not to be taken lightly. And listen, if

425
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: you've got individuals that have been missing all these years,

426
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: they're not going anywhere. Take your time, plan, put your

427
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: teams together, and think. Think before you ever stick a

428
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: shovel in dirt, because something, something might be out there

429
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: and you don't want to run the risk of being

430
00:26:45,160 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: a bull in the proverbial china shop. Okay, So they're

431
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: going to set about this task allegedly, you know, first off,

432
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: I want to see the teams. I want to see

433
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: what the teams consist of.

434
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: If you were putting a team together, who would you have,

435
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 2: What type of people would you have?

436
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: Joe, The first people I'm going after to begin with

437
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: are not going to be crime scene people. They're going

438
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: to I'm going to backfill with them. The person I'm

439
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: going to find, and it's not just going to be

440
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: one team, It's going to be multiple teams. The person

441
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to find is going to be the best

442
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: forensic anthropologist I can find out there, even if it

443
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: means going to the Smithsonian, even if it means going

444
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: to the body Farm at ut wherever, I have to

445
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: go to Maple Center in Florida, there's a number of

446
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: them that are out there. I don't know what capabilities

447
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: that both the universities in the bigger universities in New

448
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: Mexico have the University of New Mexico in New Mexico

449
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: State have no idea. But I'm going after the best

450
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: forensic anthropologist. I'm not talking about somebody that just kind

451
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: of toys with it and dabbles around with it and

452
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I'll do this when I'm not, you know,

453
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: working on cultural anthropology. That's not who I'm looking for.

454
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: I want a true forensic osteologist, Somebody that understands bone,

455
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: somebody that also understands the nature of the land. I'm

456
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: really going to want a content area expert that understands

457
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: the topography out there and the geology. That's another person

458
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: that's going to be on the team. I would want

459
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: to have somebody that is a true geologist that actually

460
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: and there are people, David, I don't know if you

461
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: know that there are people out there that that work

462
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: or that have experience as forensic geologists, so they will

463
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: communicate with like forensic anthropologists when they're going to do

464
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: a dig. You're looking for certain certain elements that you're

465
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, that make up and compose that environment. I'm

466
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: going to want at least a consult on this, and

467
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: then I'm going to backfill with top end, top end

468
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: crime scene people that can go out and document everything

469
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: along the way. And it has to be done, you

470
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: have to. You're going to take a real broad area

471
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: here and listen this person whoever this person, this anonymous

472
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: person that's not really anonymous because I think their name

473
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: was redacted out of wonder where there is a name.

474
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: First off, you're going to have investigators going to be

475
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: pressing them for information if they're still you know, upright

476
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: in a vertical position at this point, and I'm going

477
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: to press them for every bit of info that they

478
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: have specific to this area. Now, tell us precisely where

479
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: you know that this occurred, and or where you were

480
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: told that it occurred, and wherever I was told that

481
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: it occurred, and they're sending me out there, I'm going

482
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: to double that space because most of the time, most

483
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: of the time, you're going to come up with buck bupkus. Initially,

484
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,239
Speaker 1: and particularly now since time has kind of gone by,

485
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: I think that we're looking I think that you proposed

486
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: a year. I don't want to put this all on you,

487
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: but the year twenty thirteen fourteen was kind of mentioned.

488
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: Perhaps you got to give yourself some wiggle room in there,

489
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: but hey, that's better than nineteen ninety three. You know,

490
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: when you purchased this place, that's what.

491
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: I thought we were going to be looking at. I

492
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: thought we were going to be back into any But

493
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: when I saw the reply that it was they meant

494
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: the term mentioned was six years ago, and this is

495
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, so give or take a year on either side,

496
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: but even then that was scar.

497
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: Here's the beauty of this, well, here's the beauty of

498
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: this dependent upon how bodies are treated. I don't know.

499
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: First off, I don't know that there are bodies. But secondly,

500
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: let's just go down this road. If there are bodies,

501
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: we don't know how they were treated in the post

502
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: mortem state in order to get rid of them. Where

503
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: they stripped of all clothing. Okay, Well, don't know that.

504
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: Maybe they wanted to bury the clothing or anything any

505
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: Maybe they may have buried any kind of personal items

506
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: they came in on a plane with them. Here, they're

507
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: just going to dump them all in the hole, okay.

508
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: And because of the nature of the soil out there,

509
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: and I would assume that probably once they backfilled a hole,

510
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,239
Speaker 1: if they used a bit of heavy equipment, guess what

511
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: they will have done with this dave that you would

512
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: not say if somebody's disposing somebody, you know, down in

513
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: the swamp or something, they will take this equipment and

514
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: they'll run back and forth over the top of this thing,

515
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: and so they'll compress it. You know. We you know,

516
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: one of the things we look for in clandestine burials

517
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: is we look for depressed areas in the soil. We

518
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: also look for mounded areas. You know, you think about

519
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: the classic grave site where you got this kind of

520
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: mound of dirt. If you're talking about now, since twenty

521
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen. If they went in there and they

522
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: ran back and forth over this area with a piece

523
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: of heavy equipment, they could have compacted this significantly. And

524
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: it's had time that with the naked eye the unaided eye,

525
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: you're not going to be able to pick up on

526
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: the nuanced area. That's why we go back to, you know,

527
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: the imagery that I was talking about, like a multi

528
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: spectrum camera where you're use an infrared and they can

529
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: do these flyovers. Well, they'll see that land that has

530
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: not been that has never been touched by man. And

531
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking about turned earth. The earth has never been turned,

532
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, people that read this stuff

533
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: can see where areas have been turned, and it may

534
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: have been turned in the distant past, you know, maybe

535
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: a decade before, maybe two decades before. The say this

536
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: does not look like this. This is going to be

537
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: a target area. And you circle that area and you

538
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: begin to search that as best you can. But what

539
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: lies been neath there is going to be critical because

540
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: first off, all they said were two girls and that

541
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: they were foreign, Well they might be preserved so well,

542
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: Dave that you're going to be able to pull bony

543
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: structures still they might be preserved to that point. There's

544
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: not going to be soft tissue or anything like that. However,

545
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: you can have teeth, You can have enough of a

546
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: skeleton where you can begin to decide, well, which guy

547
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, first off, is it animal or is it human?

548
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: And secondly male female? You know, what's the status of

549
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: the skeleton. Can we age the skeleton? You know, can

550
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: we bracket the skeleton by ten years? Maybe five years?

551
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: Ten years? They said, young? So are we talking are

552
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: we talking before the EPI facile plate plates are you know,

553
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: kind of sealed off and the growth plates and all

554
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. Is that sealed off or is

555
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: this before they're sealed off? Do we have all the

556
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: teeth that have erupted? You know girls talking about girls

557
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: have twelve year molars erupt. I don't put anything past

558
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: these people, you know, as far as age ranges go.

559
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: You know some of the stuff that we've heard, so

560
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: that's going to be critical here. You might find a

561
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: body out there. I don't know, but is the body

562
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: or bodies that are connected back to this event and

563
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: you want that kind of explanation and once you're able

564
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: to get them out, if you find bodies, which is

565
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: again going to be very difficult. They're going to be

566
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: using ground penetrating radar if they target in on spot.

567
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: You can't just take ground penetrating radar and run over,

568
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, thousands of yards of earth. That's not the

569
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: way this works at all. But if you can target

570
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: in on an area and you begin to move this

571
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: thing back and forth, you can pick up on disruptions

572
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: in the substrata here, you know, where you can see

573
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: something that's kind of mounded up there, or some cases

574
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: you can actually see that a lot of bones, which

575
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: is kind of cool. It might be too late to

576
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: use what we call methane probes, where you probe down

577
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: into the earth to see if there's any kind of

578
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: decomposing organic matter down there.

579
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: Would you have dogs out there with you when you

580
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: did that.

581
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: I suppose that you could. Again, I don't know about

582
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: in this kind of environment. I don't know what kind

583
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: of success you would have. But the canons are amazing.

584
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: I mean, they truly are some things they can pick

585
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: up on that we otherwise might not be able to.

586
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: But what this all comes down to is that this

587
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: thing has to be organized to the point where there's

588
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: not going to be any stone left in turn, no

589
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: pun intended, where you're going to be able to focus

590
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: in on the job at hand. You're going to have

591
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: somebody that's leading the team that has no political interest

592
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: in this whatsoever. They're pure scientists. They just want to

593
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: know what the facts are. They just want to try

594
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: to find it, to discover are their bodies there, and

595
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: if they are there, how do we go about recovering

596
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: them in the most effective way possible where we get

597
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: everything out of the ground, and then who's going to

598
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: analyze it? You know, downrange from there. The upside with

599
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: New Mexico in particular, something I really dig about that

600
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: state is that they don't have corners. It was one

601
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: of the first states that has a statewide medical Examiner's office. Okay,

602
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: and they're really good. They're based out of they're based

603
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: out of Albuquerque. I've had several friends that have worked

604
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: there as they're called medical investigators out there, But yeah,

605
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: I've had several friends. I was actually on a national

606
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: national task force with one of them, probably one of

607
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: the sharpest people I've ever met. He's retired now, but

608
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: yet they've got a long history of having a highly

609
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: effective medical legal death investigation resources. And they've even got

610
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: a forensic forensic pathology training program at their medical school there,

611
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: which is a real upside. I've known two or three

612
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: people that have gone through that program. So couple that

613
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: with really good forensic anthropology, and you know, I don't know,

614
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: I don't know what they'll find.

615
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: I was curious if the area in the Southwest, and

616
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: in particular in this place in New Mexico, lack of

617
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: humidity is a real thing. It's a I mean, we're

618
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: the polar opposite where Joe and I happen to live.

619
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: And by the way, we're not burden Earnie. We do

620
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: not live together. We just happen to be geographically very close.

621
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: But we live in one hundred percent humidity. If it's

622
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: ninety seven percent humidity, we're like, oh break today. Wow,

623
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: we don't even have you know what halftime, We don't

624
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: know if our water works or not. We just go

625
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: outside and take a bath, Just take a bar soap.

626
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: You're done. But when you go to this part of

627
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: New Mexico, I remember one time three percent humidity really

628
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 2: three percent? So does that have an impact on the reservation.

629
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course it does. In the short term in particular,

630
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: it does. But you know you'll see like for instance,

631
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: in southwest one of the particularly with shallow surface burials,

632
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: and also remains that are on the surface that have

633
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: not been touched by scavengers, which are it's kind of

634
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: a hard thing. What you will see that occurs out

635
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: there are naturally occurring mummies, or you'll get you'll get

636
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: some mumpflicational remains, so things. You know, because the skin,

637
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: the soft tissue becomes desiccated, essentially, it dries out. Just

638
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: think beef jerky here, okay, And so it becomes desiccated,

639
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: and so you're retaining retaining soft tissue, you know, in

640
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: a short period of time. Now, you know, with a

641
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: burial we're talking you know, decade down range. Now, if

642
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: we're thinking about the twenty three, twenty four, a decade

643
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: plus now, I doubt very seriously you'd have any any

644
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: soft tissue left behind, but you might have hair, you know,

645
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 1: you're going to have these other in only the bony

646
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: artifacts are going to be there, which is still for me.

647
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's like we've always talked about Dave. Every

648
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: every death investigation literally begins with identification because if you

649
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: cannot get somebody identified, then you're closed off from the

650
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: rest of this world that's going to provide information for you.

651
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: And that's the key to all of it. It's the

652
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: key also to whoever it is that is the group

653
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: of predators that have been involved in this case for

654
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: so long, and that's where the big mystery is.

655
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 2: Right.

656
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about who's on this list, who's

657
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: on that list, But the one thing that's always left

658
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: in the dust, the one thing that we never have

659
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: life breathed into. For many of these cases, we don't

660
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: know who they are. We find out who they are.

661
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,959
Speaker 1: If we find a body and we find out who

662
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: they are, that is the beginning of the true investigation

663
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: because it's with that person that you can go back

664
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: and you can kind of get a picture of their life,

665
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: maybe way back when. How would somebody that's under age

666
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: make it to the US. How is it that they

667
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: made it into the US, How perhaps did they make

668
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: it to some isolated location in the middle of the

669
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: high desert in New Mexico. That is the big question,

670
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: and what became of them afterwards. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

671
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: and this is Bodybags