1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever 6 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: have you back for another topic, another episode where we 8 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: break down the psychology of our twenties. Okay, so you 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: have read the title. You know what we're getting into today, 10 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: and if you are a loyal listener of the show, 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: you know that we are doing a very different episode 12 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: to what we usually do. I very rarely talk about 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: pop culture on this podcast, but I've come to realize 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: that this person this topic feels timeless, and I've justified 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: to myself that it is also relevant to our twenties, 16 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: at least to mine. And when I suggested it over 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: on my Instagram, you guys went wild. So you know what, 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: let's do it, and that topic is the psychology of 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift and the reason why so many of us 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: across the globe, not just as individuals, but as an 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: entire collective, have such a deep love and obsession with 22 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: her As an artist. Taylor Swift is probably the most 23 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: famous person in the world right now, and has been 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: a well known celebrity for decades at this point, which 25 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: is really difficult to do, especially as a female musician, 26 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: where there is this constant trend and cycle of momentary 27 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: celebrity and fame that comes in waves, where you know, 28 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: the new best thing, the new shiny thing, is picked 29 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: up and dropped off very quickly, and yet every year 30 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: it feels like she reaches incredible new heights, new fans, 31 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: new milestones in career building moments. Her fame, I honestly think, 32 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: cannot be contained, and that is a bit of a 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: super hour in the modern age of entertainment and celebrity culture. 34 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: We have seen that, especially this year with the Errors Tour, 35 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: which was possibly the hardest concert ever in history to 36 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: get tickets to and also may have saved the literal 37 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: US economy if you believe some sources, It's mania. It's 38 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: Swift mania. And the only way I think that we 39 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: can really understand the impact that one person, Taylor Swift 40 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: has on people is by really examining the psychology behind her, 41 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: not just as a person but as a celebrity, as 42 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: a brand and as a business, but also as someone 43 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: who a lot of us, especially hardcore fans, feel like 44 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: they have a personal relationship with. They feel like they 45 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: know her on some deep social mental level despite never 46 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: having met her. What is it about Taylor Swift that 47 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: causes people to spend thousands of dollars to devote their 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: lives to her, to know everything about her life? And 49 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: as this relates to our twenties as well, I feel 50 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: like for many of us, Taylor Swift and her music 51 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: kind of provides us with somewhat of a guide and 52 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: an emotional outlet for all of the universal experiences that 53 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: we go through in this decade. Her songs are a 54 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: voice to what we are experiencing, even as non celebrities, 55 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: and that is her power, her ability to make something 56 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: relatable like heartbreak deeply personal and poetic. It's also worth 57 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: acknowledging that the majority of her fan base is between 58 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: the ages of twenty to thirty, right during this Foreman period, 59 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: and I think that bears examining as to why her 60 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: music is so powerful for people in this age bracket, 61 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: People who have grown up with Taylor, who maybe started 62 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: listening to her at ten eleven, thirteen fourteen when she 63 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: released Speak Now or Fearless and Now are adults who 64 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: see a lot of their experiences and their stories as 65 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: they transition into this new period of their life reflected 66 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: in her music. And you know, in terms of my twenties, 67 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift and her albums have genuinely booked marked certain 68 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: chapters of my life and milestones that I think are 69 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: very universal and incredibly important. You know, I fell in 70 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: love for the first time when her album Lover came out. 71 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: We all went through lockdown and a global pandemic playing 72 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: her two surprise albums, you know, Folklore and Evermore. I 73 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: moved to a new city as Midnights was released, and 74 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: the songs on those albums have been the soundtrack to 75 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: my life for many, many years. Basically, I'm outing myself 76 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: as a massive Swifty. I can give you all the 77 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: reasons I wanted to do this episode, but mainly it 78 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: was to examine my own psychology when it comes to 79 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: my loyalty and my love for her. I also think 80 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: that if you are a loyal listener of the show, 81 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: that will come as no surprise. I said to my 82 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: friend the other day. I genuinely think about her at 83 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: least five to ten times a day. Ever since my 84 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: dad brought me her first album when I was seven 85 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: years old, she has been part of my life little 86 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: known secret as well. I even have a Taylor Swift tattoo, 87 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: and I'm not embarrassed by that at all. So maybe 88 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: when we talk about the psychological underpinnings behind our obsession 89 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: with Taylor Swift, what I'm really doing is offering myself 90 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: up as a case study. This is me breaking down 91 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: my very own parasocial relationship with her, hoping that at 92 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: least one person out there can relate. So in this episode, 93 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: we are going to break down all the psychology behind 94 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: why we find Taylor Swift so captivating. We're going to 95 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: explore the psychology of obsession, of parasocial relationships, and celebrity 96 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: worship syndrome, the power of escapism, and what certain music 97 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: does to our brains and the pleasure centers in our minds, 98 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: why it is that we have specific music preferences. We're 99 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: going to focus on the underpinnings of relatability and fostering 100 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: relatability through similarity and authenticity, the significance of storytelling, and 101 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: we're also going to look at why certain decisions that 102 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift has made throughout her career have proven so 103 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: successful because of how they have leveraged important aspects of 104 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: our psychology. I'm talking about her use of errors, her 105 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: use of easter eggs, her use of so many other 106 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: parts of her brand that have made her fame become 107 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: and seem genuinely unstoppable. There is so much to cover, 108 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: things that I didn't even imagine when first looking into this. 109 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: I think it just goes to show how everything truly 110 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: is psychology, including the celebrities that we love and music 111 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: and fame all rolled into one. So if you can't tell, 112 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to get into this episode, so excited. 113 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's examine the psychology behind everything 114 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: we love and sometimes dislike about Taylor Swift. So, Taylor 115 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: Allison Swift was born famously on the thirteenth of December 116 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, a year that has since gone on 117 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: to inspire her titular album named after the same year. 118 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: A bit of background and biographical information for people who 119 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: may not be diehard Swifty's because this context is super important. 120 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: Taylor was born in Pennsylvania and she was raised on 121 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: the true Christmas Tree Farm, which is pretty iconic if 122 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: you ask me. And this is really important. This origin 123 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: story is important because Taylor, for her fans, has this 124 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: really relatable, small town, big dreams origin story, one which 125 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: we all can't help but love because it makes us 126 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: feel a very deep and appealing sense of possibility that 127 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: we could also reach her levels of stardom and success, 128 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: coming from a non famous background like she did. But additionally, 129 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: it's a very sentimental story, right that she really wanted 130 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: to pursue music. She moved to Nashville when she was 131 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: like fourteen. She worked really hard, she wrote all these 132 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: beautiful autobiographical songs. It makes us feel a special sense 133 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: of protectiveness, but additionally real familiarity with this small country home, 134 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: this small town vibe, that family feel. It captures our attention. 135 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: That's the thing about Taylor Swift that her biggest fans 136 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: will tell you, despite all of her success and fame, 137 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: she has remained a very authentic and relatable person. She 138 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: has this cozy feeling to her. She is best friends 139 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: with her mum, She has these cats that she loves. 140 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: It's this very small town girl next door feel for 141 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: those of us who attached to her. Of course, nowadays 142 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: she is incredibly famous, and that really started with the 143 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: release of Fearless in two thousand and eight, Speak Now 144 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: Read and then nineteen eighty nine, which really took her 145 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: to new heights, not just as an artist, but as 146 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: a celebrity. If you ask most fans, there is this 147 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: before and after to Taylor Swift's story centering on the 148 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: very infamous Taylor Swift is Over party that happened back 149 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. And I think that that could have 150 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: ended her career, you know, a cancelation of that magnitude 151 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: from some pretty well known celebrities that is a huge deal. 152 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: But instead she used this to transform herself into a 153 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: new version of Taylor, the one that I would say 154 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: is possibly more likable because she wasn't perfect anymore. And 155 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: we're going to talk more about her use of errors 156 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: later on. But following this series of events that I 157 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: think we all know about, she released Reputation, and that 158 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: is where we see this shift from her being this 159 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: young pop star to being a mature adult musician. She 160 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: began swearing. On her song, she talked about alcohol and revenge, 161 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: and a lot more heavy emotions that she had previously 162 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: really steered away from. And I don't think that that 163 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: was a deliberate marketing move, right. I think the thing 164 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: unique to Taylor Swift is that she has grown up 165 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: in the spotlight. We have seen her traverse and survive 166 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: her decade of adulthood as a highly visible person. We 167 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: have witnessed her development not just as an individual, but 168 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: as an artist, and we have seen how the themes of 169 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: her music have matured and developed. And that is highly 170 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: appealing to the everyday listener who is also going through 171 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: those same transitions, just at a different level. Who gets 172 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: to see their same messy, chaotic, deeply feeling imperfect selves 173 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: reflected in Taylor Swift's journey. It feels personally relatable, It 174 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: feels personally relevant. I would say that some people would 175 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: think that Taylor Swift has been defined by her drama, 176 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: her scandals, the men that she has stated, but I 177 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: don't think that as a very nuanced perspective, and I 178 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: think it's also deeply incorrect. Really, her success comes down 179 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: to one thing and one thing only, and that is 180 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: her ability to write songs that we all feel could 181 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: very easily be about us, you and me, living out 182 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: our everyday lives. The relatability behind her lyrics and music, 183 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: it makes it feel like someone has put a voice 184 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: to some of our own very universal feelings, and not 185 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: in this really fantastical, glamorous way or manner one that 186 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: is imbued by fame, but in a way that is 187 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: super simple, indigestible because it is so relatable, and it 188 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: uses these really foundational tools of storytelling. It uses metaphor, 189 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: it uses you know, tropes and stories that we all 190 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: know of Romeo and Juliet, of Julius Caesar, of unrequited love. 191 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: That is really really familiar to us. And she's also 192 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: very well known for those verbal hooks as well. She 193 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,479 Speaker 1: has this impeccable ability to write bridges that are addictive 194 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: and memorable, like an all too well she says, you 195 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: call me up again, just to break me, like a promise, 196 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: so casually cruel in the name of being honest. It rhymes, 197 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: it's poetic, it's succinct, in cruel summer. She has the bridge, 198 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, the very end of her bridge that's like, 199 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: I love you. Isn't that the worst thing that you 200 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: have ever heard? That is memorable? That is powerful. Our 201 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: brains love something that is easy to remember, that is sharp, 202 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: that it is profound, that gives us a message. But 203 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: let's look at this highly relatable nature to her songs 204 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: and the stories within them. The thing that I think 205 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: is really powerful is that a lot of celebrity, is 206 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: a lot of artists in particular, become famous and lose touch. 207 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: But on evermore into them season, you know, Taylor Swift 208 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: talks about what it's like to return back to your 209 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: hometown for the holiday season and reunite with a high 210 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: school lover. She sings about running away with a childhood 211 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: friend in folklore, or getting too drunk at the bar 212 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: and needing to be taken home by your friends, and 213 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: hits different regretting a breakup in to December, and then 214 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, there's the three songs on Folklore that are 215 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: about a love triangle between two, you know, three people 216 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: that takes place in locations that are ubiquitous as parking 217 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: lots and shopping malls and in the back of a 218 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: high school classroom. Those situations, those settings are highly, highly simplistic, relatable, universal. 219 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: We can all see ourselves in those moments she's talking about. 220 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: In those places that she's speaking about, and she was 221 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: writing those songs at a time when she had a 222 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: net worth of over three hundred million dollars. That fame, 223 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: that success has not altered her very intuitive ability to 224 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: take very commonplace human experiences and turn them into music 225 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: and songs that we love. No matter what you're feeling, 226 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift has probably got a song that explains that 227 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: exact moment, meaning that her discography it almost offers a 228 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: dictionary of human emotion, whereby we can search up a 229 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: feeling and return with a song that will capture exactly 230 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: what we're experiencing, and it won't be dressed up in 231 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: fancy clothing or make any reference to her status as 232 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: a celebrity. She does not alienate people in her songwriting. 233 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: So psychology shows us that this relatability that Taylor Swift 234 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: wields is one of the most powerful things that a 235 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: celebrity can possess, and it comes down to these very 236 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: simple principles of similarity and familiarity. There is this theory 237 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: in social psychology known as the similarity attraction effect, which 238 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: refers to the deeply ingrained tendency to like someone more 239 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: when we think that we are alike, or when we 240 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: believe that we have shared similar experiences. This has been 241 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: proven in a number of studies, including one in two 242 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: thousand and seven which measured the degree of likeness between 243 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: friends and how each of the pair rated their mutual 244 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: attraction to the other. So the more that they felt 245 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: like their friend had been through similar struggles to them, 246 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: had similar values, similar experiences, the more likely they were 247 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: to want to be around them to express praise and 248 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: love and admiration for their friend. So take that micro 249 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: into personal example and apply it to the relationship between 250 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift and her fans. When she writes intimately about 251 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: the pain of her first heartbreak, we listen to that 252 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: and we see ourselves reflected in those lyrics. When she 253 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: talks about missing longtime friends, when she talks about not 254 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: knowing the future of your relationship, of feeling scared to 255 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: grow up, of feeling like a fan failure, we feel 256 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 1: ourselves in that music, and so our brain, activating this 257 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: similarity attraction nexus, likes her more. It also comes down 258 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: to this idea of escapism and our use of music 259 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: as a mental escape. So escapism is this idea that 260 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: we use certain activities or forms of entertainment as a 261 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,479 Speaker 1: mental diversion or distraction from the unpleasant things in our 262 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: daily life. So it kind of acts as a coping 263 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: mechanism to protect us from uncomfortable feelings situations where we're 264 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: perhaps not quite ready to face reality by directing our 265 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 1: attention to something that is more safe or enjoyable, like 266 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: particular songs or comfort artists. So researchers have shown that 267 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: music serves as a really important tool in those moments. 268 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: It ises our anxiety, it improves mood, it boosts our confidence, 269 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: and it all also decreases our sense of isolation, especially 270 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: when the songs we are listening to mimic the emotional 271 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: experience we are trying to navigate, or more importantly, when 272 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: the song tells us a story that we can become 273 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: invested in. So Taylor Swift writes those songs that tell 274 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: those stories, that tell stories of revenge, of love, of heartbreak, 275 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: of growing up, and listening to these stories provides us 276 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: with a vicarious sense of release or what is known 277 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: as emotional catharsis, because she is put into words the 278 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 1: things we don't know how to. That is why we 279 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: love her music so much, because it offers us a 280 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: place to kind of hide away from the things that 281 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: are bothering us by escaping into her life and her 282 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: stories and her feelings rather than our own. It also 283 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: comes down to these psychology behind our music preferences. What 284 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: artists and songs and genres we like feel so deeply personal, 285 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: and that's because it is it is highly correlated to 286 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: our personality and our self concept. We've seen studies that 287 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: have shown that we select music based on how we 288 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: see ourselves, based on our identity. And we know that 289 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: identity is something that is self directed, whereby we are 290 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: actively choosing the person we want to be and what 291 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: they look like. So they found in this study conducted 292 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty that based on an examination of over 293 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: eighty thousand people, we prefer music from artists whose personalities 294 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: and identities we see ourselves in so based on things 295 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: like age, like gender, race, interests, and the public personality 296 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: of this person. So we have someone like Taylor Swift 297 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: right who is not only as we've talked about, highly 298 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: highly relatable in her music, but she also has this 299 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: very girl next door feel. We can easily look at 300 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: her and identify the ways in which you know her 301 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: and us are alike. We fantasize about how we could, 302 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: you know, go and grab a drink or a coffee 303 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: with her and chat for hours. And that also comes 304 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: down to the fact that her songs are really alldo 305 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: biographical and personal, so we feel like we already know 306 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: a lot about her because she shares so much about 307 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: her life through her music. We could talk about her 308 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: latest breakup, about how her mum's doing, what her friends 309 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: are up to, her cats, whatever it is. Importantly, all 310 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: of those things are things that we would talk about 311 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: to a good friend because it's all there in what 312 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: she puts in her songs, and so you know, by logic, 313 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: in a sense, she is our friend now. I also 314 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: have a personal theory that this is really elevated by 315 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: her use of easter eggs in her music. So an 316 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: easter egg in pop culture is like a little hidden 317 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: message that an art puts in their songs or their 318 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: music videos or their posts outfits anything, and it acts 319 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: as a clue or some secret message that only their 320 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: fans can interpret. So it also acts as almost like 321 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: a scavenger hunt, right that indicates things that are in 322 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: the works when the next album is coming out what 323 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: they're going through in their life, upcoming announcements, and Taylor 324 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: Swift uses easter eggs, I think like no one else. 325 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: She sometimes plots them, places them months in advance, only 326 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: to suddenly reveal this huge thing like a tour, like 327 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: a movie, like a surprise album that she has, when 328 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: we look at it in hindsight, really been hinting at 329 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: for a while. So when she reveals that kind of 330 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: little game that she's been at, that Easter eggs, those 331 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: Easter eggs she's been leaving, it kind of elevates and 332 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: provides a sense of mystery and anticipation that has her 333 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: face watching her movements even closer, looking for the next 334 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: set of clues that she's currently leaving. So every single 335 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: one of her listeners is now a detective. Now feels 336 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: really intimately involved in finding ways to really deconstruct her 337 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: everyday actions with the bigger hope that they'll stumble upon 338 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: some bigger hidden message that she's leaving them. It makes 339 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: us more attentive, It makes for a more attentive fan base, 340 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: but it also has the secondary consequence of once again 341 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: feeling like she is somehow in personal communication with us. 342 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: Of course, I think it goes without saying that this 343 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: can cause its own problems when we forget that this 344 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: person is ultimately unfortunately, as much as we may want 345 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: her to be not our friend. We may feel really 346 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: close to her due to her autobiographical, relatable music, due 347 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: to her post image, but she is basically a stranger. 348 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: And this is where we get into the idea of 349 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: parasocial relationships. So, in psychology, a parasocial relationship occurs whereby 350 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: one person feels really deeply connected and invested in someone, 351 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: extends a lot of emotional energy, interest, time, money into 352 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: this person, and the other party is completely unaware of 353 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: their existence. So this is really regularly and most commonly 354 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: seen with celebrities, whereby we think that we have this 355 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: kind of reciprocal relationship with them due to repeated exposure 356 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: and consumption of their music, their content, their interviews, But 357 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: by nature it is entirely one sided. And of course 358 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift is a massive target for these kinds of feelings, 359 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: these kinds of quote unquote relationships that we feel that 360 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,120 Speaker 1: we're having with celebrities. You know, I was looking at 361 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: the other day, she has like close to three hundred 362 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: million Instagram followers and one hundred million monthly listeners on Spotify. 363 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: It would be impossible for her to know or have 364 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: even the slightest knowledge of every single one of those people, 365 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: despite how loyal we may be, despite how much we 366 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: might love her, defend her, support her, and the parasocial 367 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: nature of this means she has incredible influence. Where we 368 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: will replicate her behavior, we will copy her style, by 369 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: the drinks she likes, the clothes she wears, all of 370 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: her music, but we have little reward coming from her 371 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: as a person. And the reason that we're able to 372 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: foster this kind of relationship, this connection is because she 373 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: is a celebrity. She is a celebrity. There are constant 374 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: news articles written about her, photos, gossip interviews, red carpet appearances, 375 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: to the point that, especially nowadays that she is more 376 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: public than she was in recent years, we probably know 377 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: more about her daily life than we do of our 378 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: friends or our family members. And when we form that attachment, 379 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: it's a really hard one to break. It's actually called 380 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: a parasocial breakup, and some studies have suggested that the 381 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: emotional distress of feeling like we are becoming detached or 382 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: removed from a celebrity that we love is just as 383 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: intense as a real life breakup or some kind of 384 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: interpersonal conflict or separation. So I think this actually really 385 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: explains something that happened around twenty fifteen sixteen, where we 386 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: saw so many die hard fans of hers become genuinely 387 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: upset and confused and quite lost when she disappeared for 388 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: almost two years before the release of Reputation, when she 389 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: made a conscious decision to shut off access to her 390 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: personal life. There were no photos of her, there were 391 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: no appearances, no social media posts, and she says in 392 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: her documentary, you know, no one physically saw her for 393 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: a year, and that genuinely led to withdrawal from the 394 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: fans of hers who had come to see her as 395 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: more than a celebrity. They came to see her as 396 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: a friend. They felt betrayed, upset, as if they were 397 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: kind of owed some kind of explanation or insight because 398 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: of the nature of this one sided relationship. We forget 399 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: she's famous, we forget that she doesn't know us, but 400 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: we also forget that she is just a person, and 401 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: having millions of people watching your every move, commenting constantly 402 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: on your love life, everything you say online every lyric 403 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: it would be really exhausting, but it's no surprise that 404 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: we're seeing more of these parasocial relationships the more popular 405 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 1: social media becomes, and it can actually result in some 406 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: really strange, really aggressive behaviors, you know, instances of stalking, 407 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: not just with Taylor but with many celebrities, break ins, 408 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: obsessive monitoring. If you've ever watched the movie I think 409 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: it's called The Bodyguard with Whitney Houston and Kevin Kostner 410 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: or something like that, it's an old one, but it's 411 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: a really fantastic depiction of what parasocial relationships can look 412 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: like at the severe end of the spectrum, when it 413 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: gets to the point of what we call celebrity worship syndrome. 414 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: So basically, that is a type of parasocial relationship that 415 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: occurs when our admiration for a celebrity shifts into an 416 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: obsessive fascination and preoccupation. It's been described as a literal 417 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: obsessive addictive disorder, whereby we are compulsively invested in this person, 418 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: in this person's life beyond our control, meaning we know 419 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: we should stop, but we don't know how to. We 420 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: become so mentally intertwined with this person. They are such 421 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: a core part of our identity that we genuinely don't 422 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: know what we would do without them. And obviously this 423 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: is really really rare, But when you are at the 424 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: level of stardom that Taylor Swift is, I would say 425 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,239 Speaker 1: there are probably at least a few people out there 426 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: who have gotten to this point. Actually I know that 427 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: there has been. There was a man who was literally 428 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: arrested in May of this year for stalking her and 429 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: sleeping in her bed, which you know I would be 430 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: moving out after that if someone came into my house 431 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: and slept in my bed. That is terrifying, regardless of 432 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,479 Speaker 1: how famous or how much money you make. So I 433 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: think it's time for a bit of a break here, 434 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: to have a bit of a breather. So go and 435 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: listen to Red Taylor's version or the album of Your Choosing. 436 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: Get yourself a cup of tea before we discuss the 437 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: power of Taylor Swift's marketing, the impact of her errors 438 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: as a way of promoting relational closeness to her fans, 439 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: and the surprising psychological impacts of celebrity gossip columns, and 440 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: the role of ingrim and our groups, So all of 441 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: that and more after this short break. So if you 442 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: are familiar with Taylor Swift, you will know that a 443 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: massive element of her brand and the way she releases 444 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: music is centered on the creation of these so called errors. Essentially, 445 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: with every new album that she releases, Taylor portrays and 446 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: reveals this slightly different version of herself, and she's done 447 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: this increasingly in the past ten years of her career, 448 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: going from a small town country artist with at times 449 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: quite Christian undertones and ideals, to a pop idol with 450 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, moving into rock and pop with Reputation, 451 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: folk and indie music with folklore, and evermore, and then 452 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: returning to that very pop narrative focus where albums like 453 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 1: Midnights it's not just the music that is different, and 454 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: that is important. It is the colors that she uses 455 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: to represent this new chapter. It is the cities that 456 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: she's living in, it is the thematic devices. For example, with Lover, 457 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: everything was centered on this very romantic premise love hearts 458 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: and sequence and tuel and marriage and forever and pastor 459 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: blue Skies. With Reputation it was leather and snakes and 460 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: motorcycles and dark almost emo makeup ideas of karma and revenge, 461 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: and her errors even evolve and represent and how she 462 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: presents herself, what she wears, how she's engaging with her 463 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: fan base, based on the era that she is in, 464 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: you know who she's associated with. Everything about her kind 465 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: of shifts based on where she's at the album she's 466 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: released this chapter in her life as an artist, Taylor 467 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: Swift has made it part of her business model to 468 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: be constantly evolving, to be testing new genres, new personas, 469 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: and the significance of this from a psychological perspective really 470 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: cannot be overlooked because I think, aside from her relatability, 471 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: it is one of the greatest marketing assets that she 472 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: has at her disposal, and you don't really need to 473 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: look that far to see that. It's you know what 474 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: her recent tour was named after. It's not only a 475 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: huge contributor to her longevity and success, but a massive 476 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: thing in swifty culture, where the error that you started 477 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: listening to Taylor almost in parts some kind of social status. 478 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: And there's a really key reason why this attracts so 479 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: many people, not just to her music, but to her 480 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: as a person. Humans crave newness, We crave novelty. We 481 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: get bored relatively quickly because when we not being challenged 482 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: or stimulated, our brain has nothing to take to you 483 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: grow or expand. It has nothing to kind of stimulate it, 484 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: so it will look for something else. And studies have 485 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: shown that novelty triggers the release of dopamine in the 486 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: reward centers of the brain. It keeps our attention sustained, 487 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: It keeps us curious, and when it comes to massive 488 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: musicians like Taylor, it keeps us invested. If Taylor Swift 489 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: had just kept making country albums because she thought that 490 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: was the only thing that her fans wanted from her, 491 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: I really doubt that she would be the kind of 492 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: success that she is now, that she would be selling 493 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: the kind of concert tickets that she is now. But 494 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: she took risks and she allowed herself to develop, meeting 495 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: the demand from her fans not only for just more 496 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: Taylor and more music, but new Taylor and different music. 497 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: Something that's going to keep our attention. It's also worth 498 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: noting that this adaptability, this growth, this constant changing, is 499 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: not something that is expected from male artists. They are 500 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: allowed to find their niche and stay there for their 501 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: entire careers. You know, they do not have to be 502 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: as sensitive to the demands of their fans. They most 503 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: certainly do not have to put on the kind of 504 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: shows and theatrics and outfits and personas that are expected 505 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: from some of our favorite female stars like Beyonce or 506 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: Lady Gaga. And I think that at times has come 507 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: at a personal detriment to Taylor, as she spoke about 508 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: in her documentary Miss Americana and The Heartbreak Prints on Netflix, 509 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: as she says, female artists have to constantly reinvent themselves 510 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: so many times or they're out of a job. So 511 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: many female musicians do not have the career longevity that 512 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: is afforded to their male colleagues. A lot of the time, 513 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: they are kind of discarded by the time they turn thirty, 514 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: when they're not pretty, when they're not the shiny new thing, 515 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: And so they need to be new to us. They 516 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: need to be young to us, but only in the 517 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: way that we want without even knowing it. They need 518 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: to reinvent themselves for the fans, for the audience in 519 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: a way that is both very comforting but also a challenge, 520 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: and really live out a narrative of constantly evolving to 521 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: entertain us. So whilst this is a strategy that I 522 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 1: think has been incredibly beneficial to her career and also 523 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: I think just a natural evolution as she's aged and 524 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: developed as a person, it also goes to show how 525 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: the human desire for novelty and constant entertainment has these 526 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: unexpected consequences for the musicians that we know and love. Now, 527 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: there are two more aspects to Tabor Swift's identity as 528 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: a celebrity, as a persona and her kind of brand 529 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: that I think we need to talk about that we 530 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: haven't really touched on so far, and I was unsure 531 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: as to whether this needed to be included, but I 532 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: think the psychology behind these facets or elements to her 533 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: brand and persona is really too fascinating to leave out 534 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: of this conversation. So firstly is the role of celebrity 535 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: gossip and our seemingly universal obsession with her dating life. 536 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: And secondly, the power of the Swifty fandom, especially what 537 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: the die hard fans can teach us about in group 538 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: and outgroup thinking. It's no secret that as a famous person, 539 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: your private life is something that everyone feels like they 540 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: have access to as misguided as that may be, you 541 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: are no longer an individual but a commodity, a character 542 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: to be consumed, something to really keep the masses entertained. 543 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: And Taylor Swift has been doing just that, probably ever 544 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: since she was sixteen, whether it was Harry Styles or 545 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: Tom Hitelson or Joe Alwen, whoever it may be, we 546 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: have this really obsessive fascination with who she is with, 547 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: and obviously the autobiographical nature of her songwriting means that 548 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: she invites that somewhat, but she's also doing her job 549 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 1: as a songwriter. She will take things from her own life, 550 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: and I think she really proved with folklore and evermore 551 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: that she is still an impeccable musician without needing to 552 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: reference her own life. It's actually really interesting. I think 553 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: this whole idea of the gossip narrative around Taylor Swift, 554 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: because especially in her early twenties, she was kind of 555 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: like a lightning rod for good old fashioned slut shaming. 556 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: You know. The constant narrative was that she was picking 557 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: up and disposing men, that she was a man eater. 558 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: There were comments that she would write a song about 559 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: any guy she was seen with, and then in the 560 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: past few years, it feels like the media has kind 561 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: of clued in that people don't tolerate that as much. 562 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: That kind of narrative. Especially when I was maybe fourteen 563 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: or fifteen, you could not pick up a tabloid without 564 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: seeing some theory about her relationships. And for a while 565 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: that died down. But it's interesting because a few days ago, 566 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: I was at the airport. I was buying my pre 567 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: flight snacks and I look over to the magazine section 568 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: and there is Taylor and a full page cover on 569 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: her and Travis Kelsey, who, by the way, I'm Australian 570 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: and also I don't like sports, but I genuinely watch 571 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: an NFL game. The other day I am getting like 572 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: NFL videos on my Instagram of Travis Kelce because of 573 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 1: his association with Taylor Swift. That goes to show that power. Also, 574 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: like viewership was up, attendance was up, Taylor Swift kind 575 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: of touches something and it turns to gold. So what 576 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: is the obsession, particularly with her love life? Why do 577 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: we love celebrity gossip so much, especially when it's about 578 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: certain deeply vulnerable and personal aspects of their lives. I 579 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: think we can offer up a few explanations. Firstly, in psychology. 580 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: In social psychology, the theory is that gossip is a 581 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: way of communicating or socializing that really allows us to 582 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: feel in the know and therefore we have more to 583 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: talk about with others. It's kind of like a social 584 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: lubricant for lack of a better word. It serves as 585 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: a form of social glue, binding us together through shared 586 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: knowledge and experiences, particularly when it comes to well known 587 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: figures like Taylor Swift like other celebrities. Secondly, consuming this 588 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: kind of content makes you feel or connected with your 589 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 1: idol or your favorite artist, kind of by proxy. By 590 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: consuming articles about who she's dating, where she's dining, what 591 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: she's wearing, what her house looks like, it makes us 592 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: feel like we have a connection with this person, further 593 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: really entrenching our interests and our investment in them. It's 594 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: what one psychologist has called the feeling of being friends 595 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: in law with someone. But it can also serve as 596 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: a form of stress relief as well, because we are 597 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: able to focus on the trials, tribulations details of someone 598 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,800 Speaker 1: else's lives like a form of escapism, rather than our own, 599 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: so it kind of numbs our feelings of boredom or 600 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: even maybe unhappiness. And I think that's especially true when 601 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: we see or sometimes decide to write negative comments or 602 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: hateful things opinions online about famous people. Nine out of 603 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 1: ten times that is a projection of our own insecurities 604 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: or sense of inadequacy, And due to this person's status 605 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: as a celebrity, we feel as if a what we 606 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: say is harmless, and b we have some sense of anonymity, 607 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: and so the shame attached to what would typically be 608 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,399 Speaker 1: quite an antisocial practice is diminished compared to if we 609 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: were doing it about someone that we actually know. Celebrity 610 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: gossip is both a distraction and an outlet. Finally, I 611 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: want to move away from talking about Taylor Swift and 612 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: briefly talk about her fan base. So the psychology behind 613 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 1: the Swifty fan base, of which I'm definitely a part of, 614 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: could honestly be its own episode. But a concept I 615 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: think is really important to cover here is the role 616 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: of in group and out group interactions, especially as it 617 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: relates to kind of the desire of fans to defend 618 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift against all possible insult and they're extreme loyalty. 619 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: Loyalty like that is not easy to cultivate, especially between 620 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,720 Speaker 1: yourself and people that you've never met. And yet Taylor 621 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: Swift is when she's criticized by the media, when nasty 622 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: articles are written about her or tweets, or an ex 623 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: boyfriend like Jake Jillen Hall or Calvin Harris is perceived 624 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,240 Speaker 1: as treating her badly, there are thousands of fans who 625 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: will go to battle for Taylor and we can explain 626 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: this using the theory of social categorization. So when it 627 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: comes to her as an artist, as a celebrity, there 628 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: is an in group people who love her music and 629 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: support her, and an outgroup people who don't enjoy her 630 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,280 Speaker 1: music or who criticize her or reduce her songwriting, basically 631 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: people who are not fans. So, based on what we 632 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: know about so psychology, in groups and our groups are 633 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: very naturally opposed. There is a sense of them and 634 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: a sense of us, and those who are members of 635 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: the in group they feel a really intense sense of 636 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: loyalty to one another or to a certain person because 637 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: they psychologically identify with a set of certain character traits, likes, interests, obsessions, 638 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: characteristic that others in the group also share. And the 639 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: main thing binding Swifties together is their love for Taylor. 640 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: We feel aligned and similar to her, but also to 641 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: each other because you know, not just because of music preferences, 642 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 1: but also certain beliefs and familiarity. There is a strong 643 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: emotional and social bond that people feel with her, but 644 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: also with other fans of her music, and in general, 645 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: when people become real superfans or part of a fandom, 646 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: it's often because there's something about that person that does 647 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: connect back to their identity in some way. And so 648 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: when we observe or talk to people who fall into 649 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: the outgroup of people who don't like Taylor Swift, we 650 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: see them as very different or perhaps as possessing some 651 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: kind of negative perception or misunderstanding. They just don't get 652 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,759 Speaker 1: how amazing her music is. They just don't understand how 653 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: powerful her presence is, everything that we love about her, 654 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: And so when they challenge Taylor Swift's artistry and her work, 655 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,439 Speaker 1: they directly challenge our core beliefs and our adoration of her. 656 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: So it feels like a personal threat, it feels like 657 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 1: a personal insult, and people really react accordingly, and that's 658 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: why we sometimes see such intense emotional behavioral reactions. I 659 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,839 Speaker 1: think at the end of the day, Taylor Swift has 660 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: been able to do something that few other musicians, bands, 661 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: performers have ever done. She has maintained an incredible longevity 662 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: as an artist and as someone who is continuously gaining 663 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: new listeners, who has this sense of notoriety that so 664 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: many people would want, that so many people crave, and 665 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: to summarize it really comes down to four major factors. Firstly, relatability. 666 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: She writes songs that we can connect to. Secondly, familiarity. 667 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: A lot of us have grown up alongside her, so 668 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: her music feels like it is something that has accompanied 669 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: the major moments in our life. She doesn't just feel 670 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: like a famous person, she feels like a friend. Thirdly, 671 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 1: is aspiration. She is a role model and someone that 672 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: we can aspire to, is someone that we want to 673 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: be like, whose behavior we want to replicate. And you know, 674 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: take for example, her re recording her old music. That 675 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: is a freakin' power play. That is amazing, claiming ownership 676 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: over her work that is a huge move. Whatever you 677 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: think about Taylor Swift, whether you like her or not, 678 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 1: you really have to give her credit there. That's pretty amazing. 679 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: And finally, as we discussed. She provides novelty and newness 680 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: to her fans. She is continuously evolving, pushing herself, growing 681 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:33,240 Speaker 1: alongside her audience as they mature, and also she gives 682 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 1: them new stuff, exciting things, and that is so addictive. 683 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: It's why she is so massive. And whether you are 684 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: a huge fan like myself, whether you are a Swiftie 685 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,319 Speaker 1: or not, I think of the lot of you know, 686 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: a lot of the psychology we've explored goes to show 687 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: exactly why she is a unique combination of both certain traits, 688 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: characteristics and also business decisions that have made her so 689 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 1: widely successful. I don't think all of it was strategic, 690 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: but she really captures something about the human spirit and 691 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 1: our need for escapism and relatability and storytelling, and I 692 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: think that is so powerful. So I really hope that 693 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: you have enjoyed this episode. To be honest, I think 694 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 1: I was the person most excited for this. I fucking 695 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: love Taylor Swift. I just made a whole episode on her. 696 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: She is amazing, and it was actually so revealing to 697 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: understand why that obsession is why I am so addicted 698 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 1: to knowing more about her, to listening to her music. 699 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: It's like such a combination of so many insane different 700 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: interactions and psychological theories and concepts. So I hope that 701 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: you got something out of this that you enjoyed this episode. 702 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,399 Speaker 1: As always, if there is someone you know out there 703 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 1: who would like this episode, who would get a kick 704 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,319 Speaker 1: out of it, please feel free to share it with 705 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: a friend, a family member, a colleague, whoever it may be. 706 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,359 Speaker 1: Make sure that you are following us on Instagram that 707 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: psychology podcast I'm at Gemma speG if you want to 708 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: see some more behind the scenes content. Thank you so 709 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: much for listening to today's episode, and we will be 710 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: back next week with another one.