WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - April 5th, 2024 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.720 This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.479 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.640 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.840 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.640 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.599 Strong US economic data making investors rethink and take down 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.360 again expectations for FED rate cuts this year, and that 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:34.479 strong economic news included Friday's jobs report this as Federal 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.280 Reserve Chair Jay Powell also reminded us in a speech 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.720 this past week that the Fed has time to wait 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.400 for clearer signs of lower inflation before cutting interest rates. Meantime, 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:45.920 Tim on the company front, Tesla top of mind for 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.280 a couple of days. In fact, we'll explain about that 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:49.040 in just a moment. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.519 Also ahead of read on the consumer thanks to two 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:53.000 views from the c suite. 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:53.480 GJ. 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.920 Hart, CEO of Red Robin Gourmet Bergers on the company's 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.000 turnaround and standing out among a ton of Burger chams, 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.960 and the co founder of the coconut water company, the 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.280 Vita Coco Company, Mike Kurbin, on continuing to go it alone. 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.640 Plus where the real stress is in real estate, with 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.600 Lauren Hackfelder, co CEO real Estate Investing over at Morgan 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.880 Stanley Investment Management, and then Austin Allison, co founder of Picasso, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:21.160 on owning a share of a lux vacation property. FYI, Tim, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.560 don't call it a time share, although it does have 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:25.600 a lot of similar qualities. I was like, this is 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:26.399 a time share? 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.440 All that to come? We begin with Tesla. The carmaker 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.280 reported its first year over year sales decline since twenty 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.200 twenty this past week, signaling more concern for an ev 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.639 industry already struggling to find its footing. 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.479 We cut up with Bloomberg News auto reporter Gabby Coppola 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.480 and co host of Bloomberg Technology on Bloomberg TV and Ludlow. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:45.399 The way that I look at it is it's the 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.280 biggest deliveries miss against Bloomberg consensus at least, which is 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.800 the average we take evanist estimates on record. And then 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:54.240 you start to ask, well, why did we get this 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.480 so wrong? What was it that happened in the quarter 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.920 that led to this strain? Low's liveries number and Tesla 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.920 put in its statement a lot of supply side factors, 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.080 diverting shipments of parts and finished goods because of the 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.799 situation in the Red Sea, a pause of production in 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.480 Berlin because of what they called an arson attack, and 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.360 then a new Model three in Fremont, my home town 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.080 in the Bay Area, impacting production. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.200 This is that ramp up that they referred to, right. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:28.360 But how does that skeptical I'm talking the voice of 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.720 the market is speaking through me. How does that answer 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.200 why the deliveries were so low? Maybe production which also misestimates, 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.480 but what happened here? And I think the answer is 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:39.080 demand well, and that. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.160 Gets to the bigger macro micro story or macro story, 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.760 right in terms of EV's still growing, but not the 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:47.840 eptic we all expect it corrected exactly. 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:49.680 So the correct way to state it is there is 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.919 still growth at EV sales, it's decelerating, so we have 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.800 a lower pace of growth this year than last. I 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.440 think that what you read more consistently today right now 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.240 the reaction TESLA is the impact of higher rates and 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.280 the consumer started to be felt in the first quarter. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.080 Then I look at Gabby Coppler's fantastic reporting. What was 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.239 popular in the first quarter, cheap combustion engine cars. 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.720 Well, all right, Gabby, there's a perfect setup for you, 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.640 so come on in. Your story is great and it 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.480 gets into what you know Americans are up to. They're 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.240 looking for a deal, they're looking for a bargain if 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:21.560 they're out there shopping for a car. 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.320 Yeah, it's you know, it was really striking to me 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.880 because for so long in this on the Speed I 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.280 remember talking about how Americans just seem to have bottomless 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.000 appetite for you know, pickup trucks and pickup trucks that 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.200 were going more upscale with luxury interiors, and the whole 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.960 market was shifting from sedan's to SUVs because everybody wanted 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.280 an suv. And now I think, you know, the interest 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.720 rates are really starting to bite, and but people still 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.080 need transportation, so that's what you're seeing. I mean, I 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.800 was struck by Toyota, you know, had really you know, 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.080 strong sales results. I think their sales were up twenty 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.000 percent quarter on quarter. But what was interesting to me 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.360 is that their sedan sales actually grew just about the 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.480 same as their suv sales. So I mean it shows 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.560 you that people, i mean sidans are often you know, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.920 unless they're like a luxury car they're less expensive than 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:12.720 an suv, they're smaller, more compact models, things like that, 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.240 and that's what people I think the bottom line, like 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.240 the payment, the monthly payment on your car, is what's 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.760 really curbing people's interests. You know, they still need to 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:23.919 buy something, but they just can't afford a lot of 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:24.480 what's out there. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.800 Yes, so okay, so that brings us back to what 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:27.960 the racing car buyer. 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:28.760 Yeah, the recent car. 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.440 Buyer had love and on the Gossip yesterday. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:33.360 Oh did you get it? 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:34.080 I got it? 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.960 Well, I got a Model Hy Sorry, Gabby. I picked 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.640 up a Model Y last Thursday. And I did it 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.120 because my wife and I needed a new car. And 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.040 as you know, I've been driving a tigue around Volkswagen 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.440 suv for the last three years. And the least priced 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.920 three hundred dollars a month for the Tesla Model Why. 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.800 And that reflects the federal tax credit, but also the 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.280 incentives that Tesla took off its own back. You know that, 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.320 the discounting. But Gabby, it's still the same point that 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:07.080 Gabby's making, right, it's economics. And you know the consistent 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.160 thing that the cell side, the auto's analyst, whoever it is, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.279 is saying after Tesla's numbers came out, is we're starting 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.760 to realize that the market for why and three, or 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.680 simply put, smaller cars that are forty to fifty thousand 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.240 US dollars, it's just not there anymore. So when's the 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.320 next Tesla thing coming? Cyberdrugs and niche products, funky but 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.120 niche and the twenty five thousand dollars EV that I 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:31.840 think a lot of people really want is a long 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:33.680 way away. That's the story here. 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.799 I agree that that price and the cost is really 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.560 the story. But I do wonder if when it comes 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.119 to the demand for evs, if we still have things 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.120 like range anxiety or you know, just the lack of 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.160 charging infrastructure that also is holding things back. I mean, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:53.040 I hear that a lot from automakers. I mean, of course, 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.479 everybody wants to give excuses for why their cars aren't 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.599 selling well, but you know, yeah, I mean, I just 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.599 think that that when you look at the EV side 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.840 of things, I don't know if price will cure everything. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.680 I know Tesla has a much better charging network than 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.800 any of its competitors here in the US, but that 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.760 network is also being opened to a lot of other brands. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:11.000 Now. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.080 So you hear stories of Tesla owners kind of grumbling 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.800 that they have to share now. So I'm just going 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:18.200 to say, I don't know if that's you know, there 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:19.880 may be more to it than just the price. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:21.960 It's interesting because I feel like we've talked with Keith 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.400 Nolton right about how hybrids right, Yeah, the hybrid cells 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.360 have gone up. So people are interested in doing kind 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.760 of the right thing for the environment, but they don't 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:32.920 want to be caught such an. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.600 Economic decision as well, because if you're having, you know, 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.359 a car with better gas mileage, then you're not you 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.320 don't have to visit the pump as much. And mileage 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:41.800 has improved a lot in recent years. 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.839 Gabby, Yeah, it has. And you know, I just maybe 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.240 I'm cynical or I've been covering this be too long, 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.320 but I feel like doing what's right for the planet. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.480 For some people, maybe that is like a leading factor 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.040 of why they choose a car, but most people, you know, 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.520 want a car that meets their needs. And you know, 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.680 and like what you were just saying, like about it's 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.960 about it's economics too. You know, gas is still you know, 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.120 it's not that cheap still, and if you can get 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.840 better gas mileage driving in electric mode. And I think, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.080 you know, like Toto will make this point that like 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.600 there are a lot of the hybrids are competitive with 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.760 the price of a combustion engine car. So once you 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.040 get to once you get to parody and you're offering 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.560 people savings on gas, then you know that's that's really appealing. 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:29.960 And then you have a gas you know, tank to 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.400 deal with your ranging anxiety. But to point, I think 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.000 you can get some great deals on EV least at 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.160 least cvs right now if you do want to go 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:38.640 that route. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:40.640 The root of what Gaby and I are reporting on 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.160 is reflected in the sales data and reflected in the 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.840 analyst notes, is the the economic reality for a lot 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.800 of households. Yes, my lease is three hundred dollars a month. 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.000 It's significantly less than the last these I had on 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.520 a big combustion suv to charge in the middle of 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.440 the day at thirty five cents kill of what hour 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.280 this was about midday Pacific time on Friday last week. 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.240 To get from twenty five percent state of charge to 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.040 eighty was about ten dollars To fill up my gas 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.040 car is about eighty dollars at the moment, but there 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.120 is also some fetters. I've only got ten thousand miles 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.160 a year on the lease. Well, what if you commute 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.040 sixty miles every day, You're not going to have enough 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.800 miles in the year to net out and do it. 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.440 And then, you know, we talked about a little bit yesterday, 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.640 I think, but if you then get yourself an EV 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.920 and you want to install a charger at home, you 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.360 have a very significant income cap on the state and 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.880 federal incentives available to help you rebate or pay for 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.280 that charger. It's not straightforward. I sympathize for any consumer 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:38.920 who's like, how do I even get started? 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.720 Yeah, it's difficult. Yeah, I mean this is go ahead, Gabby. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.360 Well, there's just one other point I was going to 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.120 bring up. The ED reminded me the people are also 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.480 experiencing negative equity, meaning that you know, the auto market 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.959 is so weird right now, right like the pandemic created 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.079 all these distortions. There were supply chain s, there were 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.120 severe shortages of car. Dealers were charging over ANSRP. People 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.680 were paying through the nose for a new car. Now 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.360 two years later, production is normalizing, so used car prices 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.280 are coming down and a lot of people are being 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.160 stuck with their car underwater. I talked to a guy 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.760 who actually bought a He's bought a Tesla Model S 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.439 that now has forty thousand dollars worth of negative equity 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:21.960 in that vehicle, and the only way he can trade 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.000 it in is if he pays Telsa forty thousand dolls. 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:25.640 He's like, I want a new car. I love Tesla, 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.640 I love my car, but I have to, you know, 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.880 cough up forty grand if I want to trade this in. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.400 So I don't think that's a I don't think that's 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.120 a huge drag yet, but it's certainly something that I'm watching. 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.720 I think because you know, the dealers who chose to 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.360 do that, they thought, oh, you know, I'm going to 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.400 do what the market will bear I can charge over 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.640 an SRP. Well, now when you want to get that 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.360 person into a new car three years later, good luck, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.319 because now you've got to be able to roll over 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.240 all the debt they have that they took on to 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:51.480 pay that price you charged. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:52.319 So that's like. 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.640 Another factor to kind of, you know, think about as 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.640 we looked at the health of the new car market 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:57.040 this year. 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.240 Okay, so let's end where we began, and that's what 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:04.120 teslave about how the company moves forward from here with 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.440 the outlook that we understand for the EV market, not 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.520 just here in the US but globally have of the challenges 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:10.640 that Gaby just talked about. 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.600 Yeah, what's the company's strategy here? 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.320 I take elon musket face value and that is that 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.280 tests between two waves. So it's the acknowledgment that the 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.920 growth they saw built on Model Y and three mass 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.760 market vehicles, it's kind of been and gone. The next 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.319 wave is the twenty five thousand dollars price point card, 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.320 which many more Americans but also Chinese and Europeans going forward. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.520 But then also acknowledge the big cohort of investors that 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.880 don't give a damn about the deliveries. They're only focused 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.280 on the software story, and you have to give credit 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.920 where credits due, you know, and their financials will show 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:45.960 that software has a role to play for them. 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.559 A sector that just continues to be fascinating. Guys, thank 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.679 you so much, really terrific staff Bloomberg TV's co host 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.040 of Bloomberg Technology at Ludlow here in studio along with 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.000 Bloomberg News Auto reporter Gabby Coppola. 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.040 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week part Catch us 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.319 Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.000 on Apple car Play and Android Auto with a Bloomberg 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:10.679 Business app, or want us Live on YouTube. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.080 Hey Carol, Yes, you know what I love talking about food? 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.040 Love talking about food. 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.560 So do He also loves consuming food. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.600 It's not just conversations, okay, But here's the thing. We 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.120 like talking about it. Yes, not just because we like 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.080 to eat it, but also because talking to the people 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.199 who run restaurants, who operate restaurants, it gives us a 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:33.920 good idea of how the consumer's doing. And of course 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.439 what's going on with wages, with employment, with inflation. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.320 There's a lot of inputs with food costs and things, right. 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.880 I mean, it's really really important. Red Robin Gormet Berger's 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.440 one of those restaurants. In the US and Canada. There 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.479 are more than five hundred Red Robin restaurants, including franchises. 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.960 The company a microcap with a market cap of roughly 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.720 one hundred and seventeen million dollars. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.960 All right, here to talk about the earnings the business, 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.280 what's impacting the menu. A lot going on is GJ. 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:04.120 Hart CEO Red Robin Gourmet Berger is joining us from Denver. GJ. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.640 Nice to have you here with us. First of all, 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.200 how are you doing? How's the business doing well? 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.480 First of all, It's great to be with you guys today. 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.439 I'm doing very well. And you know, we have been 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.720 on a path over the last year and a piece 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.240 to transform this brand on what we call a comeback 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.000 in the north Star Plan, and we are feeling really 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.000 good about where we sit today and excited about what 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:29.480 twenty twenty four will bring for it. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.120 How's the comeback going? Because shares down about forty percent 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.240 so far this year, we're bloomberg. This is the stuff 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:36.880 we look at. This is the data we look at. 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.480 What are investors missing about this turnaround plan right now? 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:41.280 In your opinion? 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.040 You know, when we laid out the north Star Plan, 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.160 we said it was a three to five year plan. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.880 When you do these kind of transformations, you know there's 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.000 there's a time element, and in this particular case, there 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.679 was a tremendous amount to do, of which we accomplished 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.079 a lot in twenty twenty three. And I think in 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.320 some respects it's it's how soon will this happen? 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:03.400 And you can't always predict that. 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:05.840 So when I look at our results in twenty twenty 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.959 three at a one point six percent comp we grew 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.440 our ibadad by thirty three percent. We invested twenty five 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.280 million dollars back into the business. We were able to 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.439 add the kind of people we needed, managers, et cetera. 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.800 We upgraded our kitchens, we upgraded our food. Eighty five 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.280 percent of our menu has been upgraded. You know, I 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.880 look at all that and say, you know, we are 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.920 we are in a good place relative to. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.080 Where we thought we would be. 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.880 And you know, at the end of the day, the 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:36.960 share price goes up and down, and over the long 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:42.080 term it will follow the right trajectory. And at this point, 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.440 we're pleased with where we were in twenty twenty three 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:45.240 and where we are now. 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.480 But is it frustrating or is there any part of 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.000 your message that you feel like is not necessarily getting 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.800 through to investors, because it's not only that it's downstill 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.120 forty percent this year, but you've got twenty percent of 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.199 the float that's being shorted, so investors, there's a negative 0:13:59.240 --> 0:13:59.880 tone to it. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:00.400 You know. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.400 In our north Star Plan, the fifth point of the 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.960 plan was we want to earn respect back of our 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.280 investor base and of our analysts and any any interested 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.200 party on Wall Street. And I think the company's history, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.319 you know, has been not always achieving what they say 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:16.440 they're going to achieve, and. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.080 So we're working really hard on that. We think we've done. 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.080 A nice job communicating where we are and where we stand. 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.320 And so at the end of the day, you. 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.680 Know, is it frustrating, Not really, because we're in this 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.760 for the long haul. You know, we we see a 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.200 tremendous amount of opportunity ahead of us. You know, we've 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.200 put this forth like if you're playing baseball, it's a 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.920 second inning, and that's not meaning second ending in a 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.080 negative way, but in a positive way in terms of 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.720 the runway ahead of us, the opportunity to take an 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.000 iconic brand, a fifty year old brand, and bring it 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.520 back into a great place. And so you know, if 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.840 you believe in that over a period of time, you'll 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:55.440 stick with us. And at the end of the day, 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.320 you know, we we know and believe that we're doing 0:14:59.320 --> 0:14:59.840 the right thing. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.560 Well, you've, of course, i imagine, have done consumer research, and 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.720 I'm just curious about the perception of the Red Robin 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.080 Brand right now where it is, and how it resonates 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.040 with consumers at this point, and how that's different than 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.680 where you want it to resonate when you're done with 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.400 this turnaround, give us the delta there. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.600 Yeah, so you're right, we've had to do a lot 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.080 of things. First things first, as we like to call 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.360 it around here, and it really some of the decisions 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.160 made back five, six, seven years ago for whatever reason, 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.400 you know, we're things that definitely hurt from the consumer 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.320 experience perspective. You know, when you get rid of bussers 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.520 in a restaurant, or you get rid of an expo 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.760 in the kitchen, or you don't have the same management compliment. 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:41.880 There's a lot of those. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.280 Things that you have to fix before you can really 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.040 go out with confidence and say, hey, give us another shot. 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.240 And so we've done a lot of that work in 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.720 twenty twenty three. Our plan as we go into twenty 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.920 twenty four is to bump up our marketing efforts. We 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.600 think we're in a great position to be able to 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.880 do that, and then right after we do that, we'll 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.760 be relaunching our loyalty platform to be much more exciting 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:10.200 and much more rewarding. For our guests, and so you 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.760 know where we are today. You know, with the results 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.000 we achieved in twenty twenty three, we believe we're slowly 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.000 getting people to say, hey, I'm going to give red 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.240 Robin another shot, but we've got a long way to go. 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:24.920 At the same time, when you look at our overall 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.120 consumer sentiment scores and you align that with the work 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.920 that we did in twenty twenty three, we're pleased to 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.280 see nice bumps and all of those levels. So people 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.920 are starting to see it, but I will say that 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.560 the frequency at a red Robin had dipped down, so 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.960 we've got some work to do. So people may not 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.480 necessarily see it because they haven't been in for quite 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.440 a while. So this marketing effort we've got going into 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:54.280 twenty twenty four here and the loyalty platform will really 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.640 address that issue. And at that point, we think that 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.000 with our plan and executing at the restaurant level, that 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:02.880 we'll start to see those guests come back. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.200 Hey, GJ, how do you There are so many burger 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.199 places out there, and you know that there's more that 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.280 seem to be coming out every day, So there's I 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.520 feel like the older guard like your own and I 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.000 understand like you guys are working on, you know, the 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.640 transformation and kind of bringing it out differently if you will, 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:22.800 But how do you how do you stand apart or 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.399 how do you differentiate and who is the customer that 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:26.760 you want? In particular? 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.760 You're right, there's been a heck of a lot more competition. 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.920 So first, let me address every one of our buildings, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.560 says Red Robin, Gourmet Burgers and brutes, and so one 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.679 of the things that we that I really challenged our 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.960 team is we're going to have this promise of gourmet burgers. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.640 We've always done a great job from an innovation, flavor profile, 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.560 what you put with the burger, et cetera. But are 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.960 we really confident that we can compete in the sea 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.760 of burgerland today through all the different players that are 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.440 out there. And the truth of the matter is Red 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.560 Robin had sort of fallen bey and so hence why 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.159 we changed our total cooking platform mid year to a 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.480 flattop of our flattop. 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.560 Grill, which we believe is where you. 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.240 Start with the right kind of burger to develop a 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.080 gourmet burger, and so we made those changes. It's twenty 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.760 percent bigger because it yields better, et cetera, versus having 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.520 it cooked on a conveyor belt type cooking more fast 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.320 food oriented. So we did that and we feel like 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.320 that that really helped us to be able to compete 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.680 in the gourmet burger space, and our guests and our again, 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.480 our satisfaction sports would tell us that that's true. 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:37.639 So I just want to jump in because we only 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.840 have about a minute left here. We talk about ozepic 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.160 and the weight loss drugs all the time on our program. 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.520