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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott So, I'm Evan Nobi Williams, and I'm

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr. And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we we explore the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports today. We begin with something big in

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Speaker 1: the NBA. They now have an official sports book. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Evan and I were the press conference. This is Evan's

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Speaker 1: barely would go far, but yeah, the NBA has, you know,

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Speaker 1: consistently been on the forefront of this. If you remember,

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Speaker 1: Adam Silver was the first commissioner to come out and

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Speaker 1: say that that that he thought sports betting should be legalized.

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Speaker 1: And and no surprise that they're also the first league

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Speaker 1: to sign a gaming partnership. UM and and the big

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Speaker 1: news here. We've talked about the things that the NBA

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Speaker 1: and other leagues wanted to get from state legislators. They're

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Speaker 1: getting that via commercial deals. Now you know, the n

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Speaker 1: MGM is essentially, through this deal, paying for their right

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Speaker 1: to have live betting streams directly from the NBA. And

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Speaker 1: that's a big win for the NBA. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to when they use an example like radio, which it

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Speaker 1: makes sense. The NBA is opening up their own sports

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Speaker 1: book because like in radio, you sometimes want to ship

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Speaker 1: your product out to different affiliates across the nation. They

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Speaker 1: can say yes, they can say no, Well, it's better

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Speaker 1: off if you own the radio station altogether and you

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Speaker 1: can put out your own product. And that's what the

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Speaker 1: NBA is kind of doing. So it's not we're actually

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Speaker 1: we're not. They're not opening their own No, well, they

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Speaker 1: have the official but I'm saying they have their own

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Speaker 1: official sports book they're going to write. They almost are

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Speaker 1: cutting out the middleman. That's what I'm trying to say.

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Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, and you'll see others. You'll see other

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Speaker 1: sports books. I think signs similar partnerships. I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to see exclusivity for MGM on on on

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Speaker 1: NBA games, but what you will see is the NBA logo,

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Speaker 1: you know, And that is something that MGM Jim Murren

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Speaker 1: said it this week, clearly finds to be valuable. He

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Speaker 1: thinks that that setting up an official partnership. And bear

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Speaker 1: in mind MGM has been offering sports gambling Vegas for decades.

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Speaker 1: They've never had a partnership with the NBA like this.

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Speaker 1: They really think that as we move further and further

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Speaker 1: into state by state, a more legalized world nationwide framework.

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Speaker 1: They think this partnership will pay dividends. We were wondering

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Speaker 1: about the value. Well, the two things here. One, what's

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Speaker 1: the value of the official designation, because really they didn't

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Speaker 1: get much else other than the right to use NBA marks.

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Speaker 1: They are designated the official NBA Gaming Partner. Great, doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that you won't be able to bet NBA games elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see the power of that logo, of the

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Speaker 1: Jerry West logo. Let's see what that means to MGM,

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Speaker 1: bigger for the NBA. What they've been saying all along

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Speaker 1: is there's value in our intellectual property. And Jim Murren

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Speaker 1: validated that. He said, we will give you and by

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Speaker 1: the way, barts three years million dollars, so not very long,

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Speaker 1: not at not a lot of money. We're gonna Everybody said,

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Speaker 1: we're at the infancy, we're testing, we're seeing, we don't

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Speaker 1: know where this is gonna be. This is a work

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Speaker 1: in progress. Let's see where it goes. We heard a

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Speaker 1: lot of that, and that's all true. But others will

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Speaker 1: have the right. But the NBA can say that MGM

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Speaker 1: saw the value in the intellectual property, the data and

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Speaker 1: was willing to pay for it. That was paramount of

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Speaker 1: too importance for the NBA. What about the integrity fee?

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Speaker 1: Many leagues have said, hey, we need an integrity fee.

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Speaker 1: What is this? That's in essence the same thing. That's

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Speaker 1: in essence the same thing they're trying to say, that

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Speaker 1: you need to pay us for our intellectual property. That

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Speaker 1: it's it's just different terminology. And MGM at least said,

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Speaker 1: we agree there's value in your I P and we're

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Speaker 1: going to give you money for it. Whether or not

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Speaker 1: the nomenclature remains the same in the other deals, whether

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Speaker 1: or not it's called an integrity fee or some other

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Speaker 1: data fee remains to be seen, but clearly those talks

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Speaker 1: are gonna happen. Yeah. The big difference between kind of

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Speaker 1: this kind of deal and the integrity fee is that

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Speaker 1: under the integrity fee model, the NBA is is directly

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Speaker 1: getting a cut of every dollar wagered on their sport,

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Speaker 1: which gives them a more direct line of incentive to

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Speaker 1: to to get as many people gambling on there's for

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Speaker 1: it as possible. If you do it this way with

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Speaker 1: an upfront fee coming from an operator to the league,

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Speaker 1: there's less of that direct incentive to get as many

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Speaker 1: dollars wagered on the league as possible. And we're saying,

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Speaker 1: by the way, that these guys are not strange. Adam

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Speaker 1: Silver and Jim murny're not strangers. They own a w

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Speaker 1: NBA team in Las Vegas. MGM does, and they're also

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Speaker 1: the sponsor for the NBA Summer League in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 1: So they've done business before. How long does it take

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Speaker 1: before the NFL Major League Baseball NHL when they say, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's do the same thing. I'm sure it's already happening.

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Speaker 1: They're already at the table for sure. We will have

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Speaker 1: as our guests on our podcast later in the week.

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Speaker 1: Ted Leons is owner of the Wizards and the Capitals

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Speaker 1: and also an investor in sport Radar. I'm sure he'll

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Speaker 1: have some very interesting takes on this NBA MGM deal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it will. As we see the money that gets

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Speaker 1: tossed around here, we'll get a sense of kind of

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Speaker 1: where all these leagues stack in the hierarchy. I would

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Speaker 1: imagine that if MGM signed to deal with the NHL,

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Speaker 1: for example, it's probably not gonna be million over three years.

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Speaker 1: It would probably be less, you know, we'll get a

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Speaker 1: sense for kind of how the betting population, and that

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Speaker 1: is fairly representative of the sports fan population as a

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Speaker 1: whole right now in the US, kind of how they

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Speaker 1: view the popularity of a lot of these leagues. And

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Speaker 1: you don't know, I mean, you know how much money

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Speaker 1: is better on each sport. They don't break it down

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Speaker 1: pro and college. So you get a basketball number, you

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Speaker 1: get a football number. The NBA is about of the

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Speaker 1: basketball wagers, but clearly football is the king of the

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Speaker 1: King of the hill. So that you just figure in

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Speaker 1: the NFL sides. Did you like this? The dollars will

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Speaker 1: be higher? And that's what I was talking about earlier,

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Speaker 1: is that you get into like I just want to translate.

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Speaker 1: You speak bar, I translate for the Thank you very much,

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Speaker 1: thank you think. Moving right along, let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: Oakland A season ticket plans. Now, the fans have an

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Speaker 1: option to switch seats during the season. I love this,

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Speaker 1: I do, and I know it's it's a bit of

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Speaker 1: desperation also for the oak is because nobody goes to

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Speaker 1: the Oaklands games and the attendant stinks anyway. But it's

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Speaker 1: sort of pick your plan and then pick where you

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Speaker 1: want to say, you can sort of go anywhere you

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Speaker 1: want in the ballpark. Give people the freedom to do

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Speaker 1: what they want. Why be why watch it? If you

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Speaker 1: watch a game from the third base line every time,

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Speaker 1: and then you go behind home plate and then you

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Speaker 1: go to the first baseline, that's a different experience, or

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Speaker 1: the outfield, those are different experiences, And maybe you don't

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Speaker 1: want to be tied into one seat. Oakland's going to

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Speaker 1: give their friends a chance to move around the ball

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Speaker 1: park a little bit. Yeah, I kind of consider these

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Speaker 1: types of things, and it's it's other teams have done similar,

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Speaker 1: not not identical, but similar things kind of like the

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Speaker 1: reducing the cost of concessions that can it just seems

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Speaker 1: like a nos tied into this as it's it's they're

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Speaker 1: getting a discounting concessions and merchandise, which a number of

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Speaker 1: the Mets I know cell tickets that are like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's just with technology being this easy, there's no reason

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Speaker 1: to have a season ticket that locks you into a

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Speaker 1: single seat unless you really want one. The mix between

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Speaker 1: being down the first baseline or being in general admissions

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Speaker 1: and you'll have the ability to upgrade with the A's

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours before some games, just more flexibility,

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Speaker 1: more choices for fans, the ability to share. What are

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Speaker 1: we here for? Taking the owners and give fans what

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Speaker 1: they want when they wanted, where they wanted, how they wanted,

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Speaker 1: whether that's O T T distribution or now in the ballpark.

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Speaker 1: The message in the same folks want what they want. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me ask a question. This is a bar esque question.

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Speaker 1: Let me get my bar to get the bar sores out.

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Speaker 1: What happens? Okay, I want to switch. I have season

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Speaker 1: tickets and I'm along the third baseline and now I

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Speaker 1: want to go behind home plate. But hey, there's another

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Speaker 1: guy who has those seats that I want, who is

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Speaker 1: also a season ticket holder. I mean, obviously you can't

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Speaker 1: just take the man seats. You gotta wait till it

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Speaker 1: opens up. So what happens? Yeah? There, I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are certainly algorithms that will decide kind of who gets

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Speaker 1: to choose what and and who had priority, etcetera. Um,

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Speaker 1: But the truth is, I mean Oakland A's games are

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Speaker 1: not selling out. You know that they're doing this because

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Speaker 1: they have a lot of empty seats and they're trying

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Speaker 1: to entice more people to come to games. And that's

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Speaker 1: a problem. That's happening across all sports as as it

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Speaker 1: becomes easier and better to watch at home. You know,

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Speaker 1: attending games isn't quite what it used to be. In

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Speaker 1: A large part of that is the experience at home,

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Speaker 1: but another large part of that is the difficulty and

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Speaker 1: the cost of going to games period. And if teams

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Speaker 1: can ease the friction with which you get to the game,

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Speaker 1: the how easy it is to get seats, to have

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Speaker 1: different types of seats, different options, etcetera, maybe that will

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Speaker 1: turn I was at a luncheon earlier this week with

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Speaker 1: the CEO of a sports team and it was an

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Speaker 1: off the records and so don't even want to say who,

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Speaker 1: but they do fan satisfaction surveys and focus groups at

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Speaker 1: the end of the year, and the two things that

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Speaker 1: came back most often fans were upset about two things.

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Speaker 1: One concession prices and two was the ingress, the time

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Speaker 1: it took to get into because of security, get to

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Speaker 1: the seats, just the hassle of getting in the joint.

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Speaker 1: So you have to listen to your fans. These are

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Speaker 1: things that people are trying to address and the Oakland

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Speaker 1: A's seemingly at least on the pricing, and the and

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Speaker 1: and the ease with which people can move around the ballpark.

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Speaker 1: Give them choices. At least they're they're trying. Part of

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Speaker 1: this is an advantage that baseball teams have just by

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Speaker 1: virtue of having games. Yeah, there's you know, your NFL teams,

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Speaker 1: when you have eight home games, aren't going to offer

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Speaker 1: necessarily a lot of different types of packages like this.

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Speaker 1: But if you're an NFL and and a baseball team,

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Speaker 1: and you know you have midday games early in the

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Speaker 1: season and then you know summer night games, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of different options you can offer. And we're seeing

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Speaker 1: a lot of innovation in which team and forgive me,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember one of the teams is selling a

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Speaker 1: package now where you get as certain it's a fixed

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Speaker 1: dollar figure, but the team has to win five games.

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Speaker 1: So if they might have me not give up a

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Speaker 1: hundred and five runs, No, it's I think it's But

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Speaker 1: think about that, so you're actually rooting against your own team.

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Speaker 1: If you want to go to more games, you pay

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Speaker 1: eighty five bucks whatever it is, and you get to

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Speaker 1: go until the team wins five games. So if they're

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Speaker 1: going to five game winning streak, you're done. You gotta

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Speaker 1: buy more. But if they're they don't win five games

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Speaker 1: for fifty games, you can go to a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of ballgames for that one price them. It would fan

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to see their team lose four. Who wouldn't, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I kind of think I'm not lying. I saw it

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. When I saw what was going on, I

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Speaker 1: flicked to Twitter, and I sent some snarky messages to

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Speaker 1: some folks involved with you in the team and elsewhere. Um,

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Speaker 1: But then I flicked it on and I kind of

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Speaker 1: like watching Jose raised pitch. I watched when the shortstop

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Speaker 1: coming in with an eighty five million fastball. He just

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Speaker 1: had some fun side arm off speed stuff. Anecdotally, it

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Speaker 1: certainly feels as that we've seen more position players pitching

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Speaker 1: in baseball this year than ever before. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's because strategically keep playing realizing it makes sense,

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Speaker 1: or or what the deal is, but it is fun

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Speaker 1: to watch. We have we've never talked about, by the way,

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Speaker 1: and we don't have time now, but I love what

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Speaker 1: the Rays are doing where relievers are starting, and I

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Speaker 1: love it. Yea, now that I do like I and

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Speaker 1: every time Joe Madden came with the shift, I don't

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Speaker 1: understand this whole baseball push. I know this wasn't on

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Speaker 1: our agenda all today, but this whole let's do away

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Speaker 1: with the shifts and the you know what, if you

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Speaker 1: want to stack nine guys on their heads like a

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Speaker 1: totem pole on first base, so be it. You know

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Speaker 1: you're a lot of but nine guys out there, and

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Speaker 1: let's I gotta hit the ball in circle the bases.

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Speaker 1: And if you think you've got a better way to

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Speaker 1: stop me, cool. I love when Joe Madden did all

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Speaker 1: that stuff, more and more doing it, but I thought

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Speaker 1: it was great. I think the raise a couple of

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Speaker 1: days ago move their closer to i think third base

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Speaker 1: or shortstop for for a better and brought in a

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Speaker 1: different picture, you know, just so they could play the

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Speaker 1: lefty righty matchup, which help their game at all. That

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Speaker 1: I think they that that game they want. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean that you're there's certainly there's a lot going on

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Speaker 1: in baseball right now that I believe the Astros are

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Speaker 1: are playing with with an extra outfielder in certain occasions. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's always just I mean used to do that latent games.

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Speaker 1: It was should we bring in one outfielder if you

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Speaker 1: need it, and you know you need to stop the

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Speaker 1: ball from going through the infield late in the game.

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Speaker 1: All right. People have always thought of something. Now they

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Speaker 1: want to do away with the shift, and that that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Scott Boris is arguing that the shift is fundamentally unfair

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Speaker 1: to left handed hitters because of you know, the importance

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Speaker 1: of first base, the geometry of the game itself, um,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, he has clients out there, they're

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Speaker 1: looking at a lot of money. Bryce Harper being one

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Speaker 1: of them. Who's Wade Boggs was a left handed hitter.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he had a problem going to left field,

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Speaker 1: so and I know that. All right, Scott Boris, you

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Speaker 1: have my number. You can call me and send me

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Speaker 1: a one hundred page data point book on on what's

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Speaker 1: going on, Yeah, on why it's unfair. Um yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: you know, sorry, Bryce, but things it's about adapting, right, exactly,

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Speaker 1: adapted overcome with ding ding ding bonus, just like they

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Speaker 1: used to say in the old prices, right, the old

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Speaker 1: Bill Cullen prices, right, and then you tell them, bonus,

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Speaker 1: are you ready for this. You're ready for this part.

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Speaker 1: This is gonna be this is gonna blow your mind

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Speaker 1: on the air. My mother used to be one of

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Speaker 1: the prices, right women with Bill Cullen. Get the Sam

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Speaker 1: Hill out of here. Yeah, you wanted that amount of range?

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Speaker 1: Which which one? Which one was? Which one was? What

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Speaker 1: the model? Which one was it? Which is what am

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Speaker 1: I supposed to short? Dark hair? Oh? Thank you? Now

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Speaker 1: you described half of which one? Barbara like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how they wasn't born? Then I don't, but man,

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Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta tell me later future kick queen

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Speaker 1: at University ever month she was on do you see

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Speaker 1: how excited bar is? A old game? That's that's great.

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Speaker 1: That's better than your two nine nine bowling. Well, but

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Speaker 1: that's another story. Here's you're never telling that goes out

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Speaker 1: through a big Greek church split at the last, that's split.

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Speaker 1: But that anyway, what man, that's cool what I'm getting

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Speaker 1: at it. Here's the bonus Fortnite, which just celebrated it's

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Speaker 1: one year anniversary. Now there's a story out that parents

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Speaker 1: are hiring coaches for their kids to play Fortnite and

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Speaker 1: hopefully get into e sports later on. Yeah, the story

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Speaker 1: is it's a Wall Street Journal story. It's funny in

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Speaker 1: that there there there seems to be two threads for

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Speaker 1: parent thought here, one being that my kid might get

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Speaker 1: a scholarship in the future and comparing that to you know,

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Speaker 1: getting your kid a private swimming tutor or a private

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Speaker 1: baseball tutor, etcetera. Um, which is it's all insane, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is crazy. The other being that that Fortnite is

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Speaker 1: so popular that it has become a social cash among

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Speaker 1: young kids, and parents are pained to see their kids

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Speaker 1: not good at it and feel as though their social

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Speaker 1: standing would be improved if they were better at Fortnite,

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Speaker 1: which to me is an amazing justification for doing it.

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Speaker 1: How about if they got off the computer and can

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Speaker 1: actually talk to their friends or these kids I mean,

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Speaker 1: sound like the old man, that's your job here. But

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Speaker 1: the funny thing about that threads are ridiculous. But but people,

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Speaker 1: I mean games like Fortnite, which you know, you play multiplayer,

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Speaker 1: oftentimes you're talking via headset to people in your game.

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Speaker 1: They are much a They're much more social than the

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Speaker 1: games that, like my generation, is face to face interaction. However,

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Speaker 1: in an in an arrow where you know everybody's on

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Speaker 1: the screen at all times. There are parents out there

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Speaker 1: that really like Fortnite because it is helping socialize their

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Speaker 1: kids in a way that like your standard PlayStation back

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Speaker 1: in the day didn't do because it didn't have this

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Speaker 1: connectivity option. I would say it's probably more they're hearing

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Speaker 1: that schools are starting to give out scholarships, but they're

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Speaker 1: not giving out Fortnite scholars I mean, parents don't know this.

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Speaker 1: They're probably kids won't like for this is the problem

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Speaker 1: with that argument. And bar, I know you can answer this,

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Speaker 1: but thirteen months ago, how many people were playing Fortnite?

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Speaker 1: Non zero? Yeah, the problem with you exactly. Games come

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Speaker 1: and go very quickly, and no one had heard of

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Speaker 1: Fortnite a year ago. And there's a chance that you know,

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Speaker 1: three years down the line, when these nine year olds

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Speaker 1: or twelve, there's a new game, everyone's playing that and

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Speaker 1: nobody's playing Fortnite anymore. But but I think it's about

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Speaker 1: developing the hand iron and the thumb muscles and the

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Speaker 1: you know, you're developing yourself for all future. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this isn't like basketball, and that basketball has been around

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Speaker 1: for fifty years and in and in twenty years, your

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Speaker 1: child is going to be able to get a basketball

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Speaker 1: scholarship if he's good enough, Fortnite can can come and go,

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Speaker 1: and multiple iterations can be back by then, and who

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Speaker 1: knows what the sports landscape is gonna look like when

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Speaker 1: these kids are going to call it you know what?

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Speaker 1: As you know, my son's in the competitive hockey world,

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Speaker 1: So I guess it's no different then when I a

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Speaker 1: lot of these parents with the private lessons at age

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Speaker 1: nine and the on the ice five six days a week,

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Speaker 1: and they're pushing, and they're pushing. See, I mean, why

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Speaker 1: should this be any different? I would argue that it

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Speaker 1: is different though, when when your kid is arguing with

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Speaker 1: you college there is going to be a hockey scholarship

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Speaker 1: out there if he's good enough. Under nothing. If you've

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Speaker 1: ever seen the percentage likelihood the pyramid, to think at

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Speaker 1: age nine that your child is going to be the

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Speaker 1: one that gets the Division one scholarship or beyond is

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Speaker 1: as nine because the percentages are overwhelmingly against it. There's

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Speaker 1: a time when your kid is fifteen, if they've shown

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Speaker 1: the aptitude to be so good at something that perhaps

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Speaker 1: that's the goal. And the arbiters who who know these

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Speaker 1: things say he or she has a shot then Okay,

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Speaker 1: not at age eight? Okay, let me ask you a

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Speaker 1: question though, Guys, goes back to an argument I had earlier.

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Speaker 1: Who would, well, everybody who would want to sit down

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Speaker 1: and watch people play cards? And the World Series of

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Speaker 1: Poker on TV was a big deal. That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm getting at, is that people get into

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Speaker 1: this people watch playing So what thing I will say?

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Speaker 1: It faded? Can I interject for a moment. My uncle

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Speaker 1: was exceptional at playing video games and he used to

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Speaker 1: go to the competitions that Nintendo and Sega used to have,

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Speaker 1: like he just had. He was just so amazing. He

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Speaker 1: had a gift. So what I'm saying is I understand

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Speaker 1: that if parents recognize any kind of potential that their

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Speaker 1: child has with something, why not why not invest in

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Speaker 1: that to see where it could take them? No, if

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Speaker 1: you're doing it for some sort of crazy Yes, at

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Speaker 1: age fifteen or so, I think it's insane. Eight or

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Speaker 1: eight or nine, especially when the odds are over welningly

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Speaker 1: stacked against the kid of achieving that go. I mean,

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Speaker 1: data is data, but I feel like nowadays eight or

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Speaker 1: nine it's so different because of social media, because of

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Speaker 1: the video gaming. Back then it was different. Now it's like,

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Speaker 1: if you miss that window, I feel going younger and younger.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's okay, is go younger justin to

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Speaker 1: the detriment of the kids. Well, but if you, if you, well,

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Speaker 1: let me put it this way. If if a child

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Speaker 1: gets into a sport at age eight or nine, well,

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Speaker 1: like your son, he's very good in hockey, but he

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Speaker 1: does not. But I do not allow him to specialize,

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Speaker 1: and I take him off the ice for two plus

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Speaker 1: months in the summer. Unlike many of the parents who

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Speaker 1: only let their kids play hockey, who on on his team,

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Speaker 1: and others who only more hockey, more practice, more practice

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Speaker 1: during the summer, they're putting him no, no, you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna play baseball. You're not playing the cross, You're not no, no,

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Speaker 1: no more hockey lessons, hockey, hockey hose. That that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a parent thing. And you're right. I agree with

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Speaker 1: you that part. Oh wait, that was good. Mom really

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Speaker 1: was on the old prices, right, I got to talk

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Speaker 1: you more. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr, along with Scott Sashnik and Evan Nobi Williams.

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Speaker 1: We are here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Friday

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Speaker 1: exploring the world of money in sports. Join us again

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Speaker 1: at the end of the week when we speak with

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Speaker 1: Washington Capitals and Washington Wizards owner Ted Leonsis. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the

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Speaker 1: world and online as an Apple Podcast all night Tune