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Speaker 1: Bill Cosby sexual assault trial at Charts Today. To call

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Speaker 1: this a highly anticipated trial, maybe a bit of an

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Speaker 1: understatement andreck Constant says that Bill Cosby sexually assaulted her

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Speaker 1: January February two thousand four. Cosby has charged with felony

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Speaker 1: aggravated in decent assault. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Cosby has denied wrongdoing and says their encounter was consensual,

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Speaker 1: praying upon and exploiting my vulnerabilities. He then drugged and

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Speaker 1: raped me. The seventy nine year old has been accused

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Speaker 1: by more than fifty women of drugging and or sexual

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Speaker 1: misconduct anything like this. Bill Cosby will not take the

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Speaker 1: witness stand, judges only allowing one other accuser to take

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Speaker 1: the stand. He pushed a pillow into my face to

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Speaker 1: silence my screams, and because I was incapacitated with the

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Speaker 1: drugs that he had surreptitiously slipped into my sparkling apple cider,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was going to die, funny Man and

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Speaker 1: I am to really saying that with air quotees funny

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Speaker 1: Man and Fallen Star heads back to his hometown of

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia for the beginning of a sex assault trial and

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Speaker 1: the possibility of ten years behind bars and now, which

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Speaker 1: is very unusual. No sign of his wife, who has

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Speaker 1: stood by him from the get go. Of course, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about comedian Bill Cosby. I Meancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us today. Joining

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Speaker 1: us special guest Randy Kessler. Randy Kessler, author of a

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Speaker 1: brand new book, Divorce, Protect Yourself, Your Kids, and Your Future,

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Speaker 1: and law school trial professor at Emory Law School in

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Speaker 1: the Litigation Division. Also with me, The Duke, Alan Duke,

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Speaker 1: and newbie Jackie Howard joining in. Let's talk about Bill

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Speaker 1: Cosby flying his prior of jet. M M. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they have those. In Quantico legendary TV comment. Cosby

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Speaker 1: takes his private jet from Massachusetts Pennsylvania getting ready for

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Speaker 1: his rape there. I said it, m M. I said it.

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Speaker 1: Everybody sugarcoats that rape trial. And if you see the

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Speaker 1: pictures of all the women that claims he raped them,

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Speaker 1: it's overwhelming. His real wife, Camille and his TV wife

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Speaker 1: from the Cosby Show have been by his side from

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Speaker 1: the get go. Camille not seeing this time. I guess,

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Speaker 1: Randy Kessler, He's going to pretend he's blind again, right, Look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not here. Who am I to judge? Do I

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Speaker 1: know if he's blind? You know, if there's any doubt

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Speaker 1: about it, if he'd better be ready to prove it

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Speaker 1: to the jury. Doesn't think he's putting one over on him.

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Speaker 1: But that's a dangerous thing. If you're really pretending, and

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Speaker 1: you really get called out on that, everyone on a

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Speaker 1: jury might know somebody who isn't that that could be

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Speaker 1: the end of the case. Randy, you just gave me

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Speaker 1: a great idea. You said, that's something that would have

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Speaker 1: to be proved to a jury. So if Bill Cosby,

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Speaker 1: in answer to these rape charges, the sex assault charges,

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Speaker 1: gets in front of the jury and pretends to be blind, again,

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Speaker 1: what the prosecution can do, if they're thinking quickly, and

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Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing they've got to prepare

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Speaker 1: ahead of time, is to bring in the examples that

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Speaker 1: I've seen in the media where he acts blind in court,

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Speaker 1: and then when he leaves, he walks up the steps

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Speaker 1: and down the steps of his private plane unaided. He

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Speaker 1: grabs let's go, grabs the railing up and down the steps.

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Speaker 1: He can clearly see what he's doing. He looks around

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Speaker 1: and talks to people. He makes all sorts of gestures

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Speaker 1: and movements indicating he can see. Because Randy en, if

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Speaker 1: this guy couldn't see, if he was really blind, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be I would not be making an issue about it.

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Speaker 1: I agree, you know. And he's probably not going to

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Speaker 1: take the witness stand right, So even if he doesn't,

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Speaker 1: he's still putting on a show. He's walking in with

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Speaker 1: a cane looking as if he can't see. And if

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Speaker 1: they can find a creative way to find to show that,

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Speaker 1: to just get it in front of the jury somehow,

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Speaker 1: some way, the jury is going to pick up on

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Speaker 1: that subtle clue. They pick up on things. And I'd

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Speaker 1: much rather lead a horse to water than dunk there

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Speaker 1: and do it. That's a good sighing. I'm totally stealing it.

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Speaker 1: It's mine now. Okay, better to leave a horse to

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Speaker 1: water than dunk their head in it. Okay, Castle, you

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Speaker 1: give me two awesome ideas this morning, everybody, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the internationally known comedian, movie star TV star Bill Cosby,

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Speaker 1: who is now finally facing the music. As my grandmother

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Speaker 1: used to say, you dance to the music. Now, it's

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Speaker 1: time to pay the fiddler. The way that these assaults

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Speaker 1: were down Alan Duke are that are the accusations are

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Speaker 1: that he would drug his victims after kind of getting

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Speaker 1: to know them. For the most part, it didn't happen

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Speaker 1: the same way every time with a quaalude, and then

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Speaker 1: when they are in a semi conscious state, would rape them.

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Speaker 1: That's and it's not the word of just one woman.

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Speaker 1: One woman would probably lose this legal battle and did

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Speaker 1: lose this legal battle. There had to be many of them,

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Speaker 1: and now I'm talking in the range of forty or

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Speaker 1: fifty of them with essentially the same story. Alan. The

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Speaker 1: first allegation started in the sixties and went all the

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Speaker 1: way up to the two thousands. He's already admitted in

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Speaker 1: a deposition that he used bena drill and kaludes. He

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Speaker 1: or at least gave them to women. The big question

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Speaker 1: here is just one specific case in Pennsylvania. Did he

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Speaker 1: sexually assault this woman? But the cases range I counted

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Speaker 1: at least forty women, several of whom I have personally interviewed.

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Speaker 1: His accuser, Andrew Constant, alleges he drugged her and raped

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Speaker 1: her during an encounter at his home in Philly back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand four. And this is no gold Digger.

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Speaker 1: She was on staff working for the women's basketball team

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Speaker 1: at Temple University at the time this happened. And you

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Speaker 1: know what, I've noticed Randy, Randy Kessler joining us a

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Speaker 1: new author and professor of litigation at EMMA University. Randy,

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Speaker 1: I've noticed that all of his victims, it's not like

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Speaker 1: he approaches them on the street on some back alley

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Speaker 1: and knocks him out and has sex with him or

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Speaker 1: drags them off behind a dumpster like the Stanford rapist.

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Speaker 1: He knows these people. These are people that he has

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Speaker 1: business ties or social ties with, and he uses that

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Speaker 1: relationship to be around them and then rape them. According

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Speaker 1: to the complaint. That makes it for a much harder case, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's the issue. The whole defense is consent

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Speaker 1: and someone knew him, they came to his room. You know,

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Speaker 1: old fashioned people are going to say, well, they knew

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Speaker 1: what they're getting into, and they're gonna victim blame. But

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Speaker 1: it is a more defensible case than someone who goes

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Speaker 1: into a bar find someone they don't know, drugs them

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Speaker 1: with a rupee on the on the bar, and then

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Speaker 1: takes them home unconscious. This is a much different case

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Speaker 1: and it's a much harder case, and candidly, that's why

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Speaker 1: it's a more interesting case in the media because it's

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Speaker 1: not a clear cut, swam dunk victory for the prosecution.

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Speaker 1: Now hold on, because he gave a deposition which had

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Speaker 1: been sealed up until recently and then it got unsealed

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Speaker 1: after a request by the AP and in his deposition

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Speaker 1: under oath, it's so creepy. He describes how he would

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Speaker 1: invite young models or fly attendants, waitresses, actresses to meet

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Speaker 1: him and would ply them with pills and all alcohol

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Speaker 1: and then they would quote have sex. Now the women

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Speaker 1: don't say that's what it was, but he admits, Randy,

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Speaker 1: that he gave them drugs and alcohol and then, as

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Speaker 1: he said, had sex with them. He refers to them

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Speaker 1: as liaisons. Liaisons. Other people would refer to it as

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Speaker 1: a felony. Randy Kessler, I agree, and it's not excusable.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we are not in his world, and

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Speaker 1: you know he may have been normalized to that behavior.

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Speaker 1: That may be the world he lived in where it

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Speaker 1: just happened among his peers, among his friends, and he

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Speaker 1: didn't think he was doing anything wrong. Does that mean

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Speaker 1: he lacked the intent? Probably not. He probably still gets

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Speaker 1: convicted on that, but it's certainly, you know, we are

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Speaker 1: not in his shoes, and we do not know in

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Speaker 1: those times what things really. People that are in his

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Speaker 1: position have things thrown at them, they have money thrown

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Speaker 1: at them, people begging to be around them. So it

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Speaker 1: may have played to his and he may have thought

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Speaker 1: it was okay. That doesn't make it okay, and that

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Speaker 1: may make it harder for him to defend himself fifty times.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, Randy, Yeah, that's what makes it normal.

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Speaker 1: When you do something over and over, you start to

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Speaker 1: forget that. It's here's another issue that should crop up

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Speaker 1: in the trial. Cosby and or his agents offered this woman,

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Speaker 1: as they did other women, money for quote school when

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Speaker 1: her mother called to confront him about the rape in

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Speaker 1: January two thousand and six, and she said, according to Cosby,

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Speaker 1: under oath, your apology is enough. They didn't take any money, okay,

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Speaker 1: he offered money. Also, this mom is expected to testify

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Speaker 1: and describe the changes she saw in her daughter that year,

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Speaker 1: the way that her behavior changed, which, as you know, Randy,

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Speaker 1: you and I both have tried so many rape cases,

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Speaker 1: child molestation cases, battery cases, the victim's behavior often changes. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, we'll see what happened now. So

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Speaker 1: what do you expect in the trial? Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, people don't forget this stuff.

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Speaker 1: People don't just get over. And that's why you hear

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Speaker 1: about other victims that want to be there. They want

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Speaker 1: to stare him down for something that happened in the

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Speaker 1: nine sixties. This is long held, This is hard stuff

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Speaker 1: to overcome. I think that's gonna be a lot of

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Speaker 1: the backstory. Does the jury know who those people in

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Speaker 1: the in the jury and the audience are that may

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Speaker 1: affect it. I think the jury is going to have, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, a hard time being as outraged as we

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Speaker 1: all have been for the last year, because after a while,

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Speaker 1: the news plays down, other things come to the news.

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Speaker 1: There's a problem when you say something over and over

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Speaker 1: and over a K. O. J. Simpson, you know, you

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Speaker 1: start to get normalized to the fact that this happened

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Speaker 1: in the past. I still think it's a conviction. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know, an old man sitting there with a cane,

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Speaker 1: you can't get away from the sympathy factor, in the

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Speaker 1: emotion factor, you know, let him live out the rest

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Speaker 1: of his years and pieces gonna part of the mindset

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Speaker 1: of some of the jurors. It's inescapable. Well, another thing

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Speaker 1: you mentioned O. J. Simpson, there's a so called o

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Speaker 1: J hangover effect. O J hang over effect. People are

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Speaker 1: worried that there will be a media frenzy and that

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Speaker 1: the judge, like Lance Echo did, will allow a lot

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Speaker 1: of show boating, a lot of bs in the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: and the evidence will not be presented fairly. The jury

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Speaker 1: in Cosby's case, seven men five women in Allegheny County

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Speaker 1: are gonna be bust in from Pittsburgh to decide the case.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be in Montgomery County, that's just outside Philly.

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Speaker 1: We do not, as Alan Duke correctly pointed out, expect

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Speaker 1: Causeby to take the stand, which you know, Randy, the

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Speaker 1: judge is going to instruct the jury that the defendant

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Speaker 1: does not have to take the stand. Camp Lee the

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Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, and that they are

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Speaker 1: not to infer or conclude anything as a result of

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Speaker 1: his silence. But and the state cannot comment on silence.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm telling you, if this wasn't true,

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Speaker 1: why not take the stand and tell what really happened

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Speaker 1: that night. Boy, don't you wish you could have said

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Speaker 1: that as a prosecutor a hundred times? Man? Do I don't?

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Speaker 1: I really, you know, but you know there's a lot,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot with what's not said. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: people on the jury gonna wonder that. And even though

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Speaker 1: the defense can say all day long and the judge

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Speaker 1: can instruct them that you can't infer anything from that.

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Speaker 1: You're right, that's just human nature. And that's a jury

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Speaker 1: of humans, not robots, were not a jury of technological computers.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna wonder if it wasn't true, why don't you

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Speaker 1: defend your on or why don't you get up and

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Speaker 1: say it's not true? But you know those defense lawyers,

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Speaker 1: that's what they do morning, noon, tonight. They're very very

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Speaker 1: good at explaining that's the system we live in. You

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Speaker 1: cannot hold it against him, and you know, if they

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Speaker 1: follow the law, they should not hold it against him. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me ask you this, do you think there will

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Speaker 1: be Randy any similar transactions introduced I a third teen

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Speaker 1: other women. Out of this, approximately fifty women have signed

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Speaker 1: on to support Constant in her claim to support her

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Speaker 1: lawsuit saying Bill Cosby also molested raped them. Um, what

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Speaker 1: do you think do you think other similar transactions will

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Speaker 1: come in to prove modus operandi, of course of conduct,

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Speaker 1: frame of mind? What do you think? My understanding is,

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Speaker 1: I thought only one was going to be allowed to testify,

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Speaker 1: But you know it's been in the press so much,

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Speaker 1: and you have to be living under a rock, and

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Speaker 1: you know you've got twelve jurors, So if one of

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Speaker 1: them has heard about it, then they've all heard about it.

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Speaker 1: Because when they deliberate, they're gonna say she's not the

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Speaker 1: only one. If she was the only one, it's a

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Speaker 1: lot harder to believe. I think you're right. I think

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Speaker 1: you're right, Randy. I think that's so far one other

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Speaker 1: accuser is going to be allowed. The d A Kevin

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Speaker 1: Steele will bring in one other woman victim to show

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Speaker 1: this was a quote signature crime pattern. Now, this woman

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Speaker 1: they're bringing in work for Cosby's agent at William Morris

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Speaker 1: and says Cosby drugged her and raped her in at

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Speaker 1: an l A hotel. She's going to be testifying. So

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Speaker 1: that makes the state's case a lot stronger in my mind,

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Speaker 1: Although constant, I don't really think needs any shoring up.

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Speaker 1: I think she can carry the day all on her own. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here you go, go on. I'm sticking my neck out.

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Speaker 1: I say he's going to be convicted. Kestler, boy, I

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Speaker 1: think it depends on these witnesses, you know, and it's

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Speaker 1: sort of castler. No, No, you gotta go one way

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Speaker 1: or the other. Conviction, no conviction, boy, I'm not there.

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a closet. I think it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a hung jury. I think there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: somebody that still loves him enough to think he couldn't

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Speaker 1: do it. Hung jury, all right, hung jury? All right,

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Speaker 1: Duke yeah, hung jury. I I don't see them this man.

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Speaker 1: I just do not see that, all right. And here

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Speaker 1: in the studio with me is Jackie Jackie. Conviction, no conviction, okay.

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Speaker 1: The women are saying conviction. The men aren't whimping out

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Speaker 1: claiming hung jury. Okay. Speaking of whimpy men. I took

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Speaker 1: the children to see Wonder Woman last night. It is awesome.

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Speaker 1: It is awesome. It's awesome. I didn't even want to

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Speaker 1: leave it. And when I left, I last said, like

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Speaker 1: four guys and dragged him through the parking lot in

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Speaker 1: the back of my minivan. It was so great. Now,

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Speaker 1: hold on, and you know another thing I took them

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Speaker 1: to see. I took them to see Pirates of the Caribbean,

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Speaker 1: expecting it to be horrible after reading all the reviews.

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Speaker 1: It was great. It was one of the best Pirates

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Speaker 1: of the Caribbean that there have been. And it's not

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Speaker 1: just me. My two nine year olds agreed. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: they're now. I don't know how I got on to that. Kessler. Kessler,

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Speaker 1: have you seen any of the movies I'm talking about?

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Speaker 1: Have you taken your kids to see that anything? He's

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Speaker 1: just a bad parent. I'm a terrible parent. I wait

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Speaker 1: to a movie a six months old and I watched

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Speaker 1: him on the big screen of my house, or I

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Speaker 1: with the tame flying around to talk with you on

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Speaker 1: the radio? What about your what about your children? You

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Speaker 1: know what? Don't they get a piece of anything? You

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Speaker 1: have more of a loss a fair attitude. After six months,

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Speaker 1: everything's new if you just sort of mindset that you're

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Speaker 1: gonna We've got too much going on. But I will

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Speaker 1: go to Wonder Woman. My daughter will see what a Woman?

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Speaker 1: Based on the anti Grace's recommendation was so good. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was good for my twins. Of course, I took

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Speaker 1: them out a couple of times because I thought there

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Speaker 1: might be some s e X happening. So I went, oh, no, wait,

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Speaker 1: I think somebody is that going to take their clothes off,

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Speaker 1: say a dirty word, or get kill So you gotta

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Speaker 1: get out. So they're used to this, so they ran out.

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Speaker 1: They wait around the corner, and then when I see

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Speaker 1: that's not happening, I said, okay, okay, they didn't. They

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Speaker 1: did not say a dirty word, take their clothes off,

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Speaker 1: or get their head chopped off, so you can come

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Speaker 1: back in. So we we only had to do that

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Speaker 1: a few times last night when I thought s e

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Speaker 1: X might happen. Blue Apron is the number one fresh

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Speaker 1: So don't wait, that's Blue Apron dot com slash Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Blue Apron a better way to cook. Hey, you know what,

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Speaker 1: there is another topic I want to hit really quit.

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Speaker 1: Let's hit it and quit it. Alan Duke, you have

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Speaker 1: come incredibly close to an elder abuse case, a vicious

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Speaker 1: elder abuse case. I saw the pictures, Alan, what happened? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: You and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: and you advised me to talk to the l A

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Speaker 1: p D. And we need to set the record straight

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Speaker 1: and give some information about this. This case involves one

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Speaker 1: of the most beloved figures in entertainment, and that is Stanlee.

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Speaker 1: He is the founder of Marvel Comics, creator co co

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Speaker 1: creator of Spider Man, Incredible Hulk, all of those incredible

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Speaker 1: characters in chiess. I've known Stanley now for I guess seven, eight,

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Speaker 1: nine years. Suddenly in my text messages about two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: some photos appeared and I knew it to be Stan's wife, Joan.

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Speaker 1: She's nine five years old. And I saw them and

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Speaker 1: they were of her sitting looking very sad and bruised.

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Speaker 1: And then I checked into my investigation and found out, wait, wait, White,

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Speaker 1: wait wait, Alan, Alan saying breathed is not really doing

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Speaker 1: it justice. The photo of this little lady. She's very slight.

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Speaker 1: You know my mom who was now eighties something. It's gotten,

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Speaker 1: it's gotten so much worse since my dad passed away, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, almost two years ago. And Alan, you helped

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Speaker 1: me get through that. She's so tiny and so frail.

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Speaker 1: And this little lady you're talking about looks like if

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Speaker 1: a good wind came along, you would pick her up

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Speaker 1: and fly her away. She is totally covered, she's covered

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Speaker 1: her skin. Randy, her skin literally looks purple and black.

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Speaker 1: Her skin she's so bruised on her arms and her

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Speaker 1: legs you can't even see her skin tone. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what skin color she is because she is

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Speaker 1: nothing very white, British. Awful. What happened? Alan They were

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Speaker 1: sent to me and I talked to two people who

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Speaker 1: said that they were witnessed to the event where she

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Speaker 1: was injured. The witnesses, well, my first thing was what

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Speaker 1: do I do with this? I mean, my first instinct,

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Speaker 1: of course, was to talk to you, Nancy, So I

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Speaker 1: sent them to you and let you look at them.

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Speaker 1: And your advice to me was go to the l

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Speaker 1: a p D Immediately, which is what I did, because

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Speaker 1: it's elder alleged allegations of elder abuse. Sometimes if someone

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Speaker 1: that is certainly putting perfume on the pig, You know, Randy,

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Speaker 1: I've seen this so many times in court. Why do

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Speaker 1: we say assault instead of rape? Why do we say

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Speaker 1: elder abuse instead of beat the crap out of nearly

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Speaker 1: killed the I mean, because when you beat an elderly

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Speaker 1: a little bit, the elderly lady like this, that could

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Speaker 1: kill them. You gotta be careful with the terminology too,

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Speaker 1: because you don't want to be the ones saying something

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Speaker 1: that's wrong. We're careful in America. We don't jump to conclusions,

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Speaker 1: and you know, those terms are very special and when

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Speaker 1: you actually have proof of that, then you should use

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Speaker 1: those terms. But you know, I'm not judging until I

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Speaker 1: see the facts, and that's just the way I've been

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Speaker 1: taught and raised in the line. Well, all I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who did it or why they did it,

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Speaker 1: but I know based on those photos that Alan Duke

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Speaker 1: showed me, that this lady was beaten severely. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: what I know. That's all I know right now. The

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Speaker 1: allegation by two witten is that I've spoken with is

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Speaker 1: that she it was actually three years ago April of

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Speaker 1: that it was her daughter, sixty seven year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: who threw her up against a glass door. I don't

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Speaker 1: know this to be true. I'm telling you what witnesses

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Speaker 1: told me, and this I took to the l a

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Speaker 1: p D. And I do know for a fact, in

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Speaker 1: contrary to some reporting in the media, that the l

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Speaker 1: a p D is currently investigating this as an elder

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Speaker 1: abuse case. But what I wanted to do was to

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Speaker 1: talk today to make clear everyone knows that the witnesses

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Speaker 1: did not come forward with this. We did, me and you,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace came forward with this because if you you

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Speaker 1: cannot unsee these photos, you cannot forget about them. Well,

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Speaker 1: the other thing is we've come forward with it two

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Speaker 1: and we did not do a story on it. You

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Speaker 1: got the knowes, you ask questions about it, and you

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Speaker 1: went to the l a p D. We did not

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Speaker 1: put this on crime online, we didn't talk about it

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. Nothing. This was strictly to try and

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Speaker 1: help the woman, as we do with a lot of

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Speaker 1: cases that we never consider putting on the podcast or

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Speaker 1: on the website. I really want to help this lady,

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Speaker 1: That's what I really want to do. And Alan, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if it hadn't been for you, it would never have

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Speaker 1: gone to the police. Ever, when you are wealthy and powerful,

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Speaker 1: sometimes a you get the worst medical care and be

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Speaker 1: sometimes you get the worst worst elder care. We've had

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Speaker 1: these other cases of Mickey Rooney and Casey k Somewhere

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Speaker 1: there have been allegations of elder abuse because people are

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Speaker 1: concerned if they report it they will lose their jobs,

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Speaker 1: or their position, or their opportunity to be close to

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Speaker 1: this celebrity. And I'm not saying that that's the case here,

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Speaker 1: but it is something that I fear is a problem

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Is a lot of stuff doesn't go reported

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Speaker 1: because people don't want to destroy relationships for some reason.

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Speaker 1: The l a p D leaked this to the media

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Speaker 1: and gave them some wrong information. It was us who

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Speaker 1: reported it, not that former business partner of Stanley. I

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Speaker 1: just want to make that clear. Where does this stand.

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Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, I don't give a flying fig who

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Speaker 1: reported it at this juncture, except that I'm proud of

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Speaker 1: you for doing the right thing. And honestly, when you

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Speaker 1: asked me what should I do if you hadn't reported Alan,

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Speaker 1: I didn't tell you then, but I would have thought

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Speaker 1: so much less of you if you had not reported it.

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Speaker 1: And I was just standing by thinking wondering what you

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Speaker 1: were going to do. And then the very next time

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Speaker 1: I talked to you, you told me that you had

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Speaker 1: and I'm just really proud. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people wouldn't do that. The day I went down to

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Speaker 1: the l a p D to report this, I you

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Speaker 1: always gonna lose some friends, and I think I have

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00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: lost some friends in Hollywood by reporting this. But that's

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00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: so be it. But it was the day that we

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00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: talked about Adrian Jones, the day that we talked about

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00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: the quote boy who was fed to the pigs. His

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00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: uncle allegedly saw the abuse over years and didn't report it.

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00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: This boy who was starved and beaten, his step mom

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00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 1: and dad are in prison for a long time. Let's hope. Now.

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00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: Social service workers didn't do their job and the boy

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00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: died despite a lot of red flags. And that was

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00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: very heavy in my mind that I don't want this

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Speaker 1: to be a situation like Adrian Jones. Nine year old

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00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: woman is like a seven year old child as far

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00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: as defenselessness, and we have to protect them. The L A. P. D.

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00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 1: S Age she's the most Yes, she's the most incredible,

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00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: wonderful woman. I've oh to hear her voice, her British

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00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: accent and you know, stand of course is a love

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00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: legend in the entertainment industry. And I could not unsee

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00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: these photos. Okay, wait a minute, whoa whoa wait wait

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00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: wait okay, hold on, Jackie, do you know the answer

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00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: to this? Did the creator of Marvel Comics. It's his wife.

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00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: We're talking about that it was beaten so badly, not

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Speaker 1: by him, by somebody else that Alan reported allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, Okay, allegedly,

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00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: it's all alleged. Nothing's been proven. We saw the photos.

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00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: Alan went to the police. Okay, does that include Wonderwoman?

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00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: Is wonder Woman a Marvel I don't believe so, Brandy,

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00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: what's the other one? You two make me think of

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00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: the nerds that would totally know all this trivia? You

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00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: know what? Never mind, Jackie's looking it up on good

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00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: that's on the same page with Batman. I think Wonder

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00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: Woman and Batman are the same company, but it is

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00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: with Batman, and I think thor Or and iron Man.

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00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: I know this all this because of the trailer. I

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00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: just it's gonna be a new movie Gold. But this guy,

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00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: I mean, you think it only happens this elder abuse,

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00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: domestic abuse, child abuse, blah blah blah. It only happens

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00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: to a certain segment, say, an uneducated segment, or a

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00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: poor segment, or an economically beleaguered segment of our population.

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00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: This is the founder of the Marvel comic series. He

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00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: created this or a massed it and these are the allegations.

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00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: Oh d c comics, She's saying, Jackie sing, this is

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00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: proof that if these allegations are true, and they're just allegations,

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00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: I'll say it for the five millionth time. If they

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00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: are true, it's proof that this type of abuse spans

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00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: every aspect, every echelon of our society. Okay, I Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories, signing off. I want to thank

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Speaker 1: Jackie Allen, our guest and longtime friend. Atlanta lawyer Randy Kessler,

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00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: author of a new book. What's the name of your book? Randy?

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00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: Divorce Protect yourself, your kids, and your future. Oh dear,

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Speaker 1: you know, sadly, there's an alternative to divorce, and it's murder.

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00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: As I tell my husband all the time. But you know,

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00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: all my good ideas about how to kill him I've

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00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: used in my books in my Hallmark movies. So I'd

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Speaker 1: better get thinking people. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off.

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Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,