1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Still in 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: our favorite month of the year, October, Yes, Halloween season, 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: and so we have an episode that I know a 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 1: lot of people have requested that the only person I 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: wrote down was Betty, So thank you Betty and everyone 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: that I forgot to write down in addition to Betty. 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: It is a topic that was written about in the 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: twelfth and thirteen centuries as a factual thing that really happened, 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: but some people today classify at more as folklore. And 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: it is the green children of Woolpit who made a 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: really eerie appearance in Suffolk, England in the twelfth century. 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: We accidentally have a little theme of like odd happenings 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: in England at the beginning of this season. We're kicking 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: off with weird English stuff apparently, and by today's standards. 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 1: The village of Wolpit is quite small, with a population 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: of only about two thousand people traveling by car. It's 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 1: a couple of hours northeast of London. That's about thirty 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: six miles or fifty eight kilometers east of Cambridge, and 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: in the twelfth century the area was not exactly bustling, 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: but it was more densely populated than much of rural England, 23 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: and it was a thriving agricultural center. So, according to 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: the story, one day in Woolpit, two children, a boy 25 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: and a girl, emerged from a series of pits that 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: were used for trapping wolves. These these wolf pits, and 27 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: not the fabric of wool are where Wolpit gets its name, 28 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: is named after wolf pits. There are two chronicles of 29 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: this event and what happened after these two children appeared. 30 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: One is by Ralph Abbot of Cogschal, who wrote his 31 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: explanation of what happened as part of the Chronicon Anglicanum, 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: and the other is by William of Newburgh and the 33 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: Historia Rerum Anglicarum, or the History of English Affairs, and 34 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: both men wrote these accounts in Latin. A translation of 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: William's version by Joseph Stevenson is part of a truly 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: colossal set of volumes called The Church Historians of England, 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: which was published in eighteen fifty three and is available 38 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: online archive dot org if you want to check it out. 39 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: Stevenson translated Ralph's version two, but we couldn't find that 40 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: part of the Chronicon anglican Um in English online. So 41 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: instead of subjecting everyone to Ralph's Latin, shoved through Google Translate, 42 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: which is a hilarious activity if you ever want to 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: want to get some comedy in your life. We're going 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: to read Stevenson's translation of William's version. I did, indeed 45 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: of Ralph's Latin version through Google Translate, and that was 46 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: my amusement for a good chunk of afternoon. Before we 47 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: get to William's version of this story, though, I want 48 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: to have a brief digression about Joseph Stevenson because he 49 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: is character. He was the son of a surgeon, but 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: he also helped his uncle out in his job as 51 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: a smuggler. In his youth, he was not particularly a 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: good student either. While he was enrolled at a grammar 53 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: school that was attached to Durham Cathedral, for some reason, 54 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: he was keeping a loaded pistol among his possessions, which 55 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: went off while being handled by a servant, and according 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, that that had 57 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: quote dramatic, although not grave, consequences I feel like a 58 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: tea set must have been destroyed and other things as well. 59 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: It gave no detail, but it makes it sound like 60 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: Fortunately no one was harmed in this accidental discharge of 61 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: a firearm, but there was some dramatic incident. And in 62 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: spite of this checkered background, Stevenson wound up working at 63 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: the British Museum. He married and he had two children, 64 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: and then he changed courses to join the clergy after 65 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: he was traumatized by the death of his brother. He 66 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: became a pre east after the death of his wife. 67 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: So where we come around to these monumental volumes of 68 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: translated works of history. He turned out to really have 69 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: a knack for translating and editing historical documents. He did 70 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: a lot of work for the Historical Manuscript's Commission. He 71 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: put together a bunch of different gigantic collections of historical 72 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: documents for various different clubs and historical societies. These ranged 73 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: from four to eight volumes in length. Some of them 74 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: were these gargantia wine editions of old religious and secular histories. 75 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: And this was just his thing. Apparently he was also 76 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: extremely personable and generous as well. So this is the 77 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: guy that did the translation of the thing that we're 78 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: about to read. Yeah. Worthy of a little mini biography 79 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: there for sure. Uh And back to the story. In 80 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: Stevenson's translation, William begins his account by saying that it 81 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: doesn't seem right to skip over the story of the 82 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: Green Children, but at the same time he had some 83 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: doubts about the matter. It seemed both ridiculous and serious. 84 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: But at the same time he had heard about it 85 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: from so many people, all of them very respectable and competent, 86 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: that he was quote compelled to believe. I feel like 87 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: this is a twelfth century version of the X Files poster. 88 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: I know, well, it's also a great that couching that 89 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: happens for spooky stories. And like, I know, this is ridiculous, 90 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: but there are enough reasonable people to believe it that 91 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: there must be truth in it. Yes, So we are 92 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: going to read his whole account because I love it 93 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: and I want to share it with all of you. 94 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: And it's a bit long, So we are going to 95 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: take turns, as we recently did when we talked about 96 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: the Devil's hoof prints. We took turns on a rather 97 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: lengthy passage. That's so what we're going to do again today. 98 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: So he he got into the story, saying, in East Anglia, 99 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: there's a village distant, as it is said, four or 100 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: five miles from the noble monastery of the Blessed King 101 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: and Martyr Edmund. Near this place are seen some very 102 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: ancient cavities called wolf pits, that in English pits for wolves, 103 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: and which give their name to the adjacent village. During harvest, 104 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: while the reapers were employed in gathering the produce of 105 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: the fields, two children, a boy and a girl, completely 106 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: green in their persons and clad in garments of a 107 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: strange color and unknown materials, emerged from these excavations while 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: wandering through the fields in astonishment. They were seized by 109 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: the reapers and conducted to the village, and many persons 110 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: coming to see so novel a sight. They were kept 111 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: some days without food, But when they were nearly exhausted 112 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: with hunger and yet could relish no species of support 113 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: which was offered to them, it happened that some beans 114 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: were brought in from the field, which they immediately seized 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: with avidity and examined the stock for the pulse, but 116 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: not finding it in the hollow of the stock, they 117 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: wept bitterly. Upon this, one of the bystandards, taking the 118 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: beans from the pods, offered them to the children, who 119 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: seized them directly and ate them with pleasure. This next 120 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: sentence is my favorite sentence, and the entire thing by 121 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: this food. They were supported for many months until they 122 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: learned the use of bread. At length by degrees, they 123 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: changed their original color through the natural effect of our food, 124 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: and became like ourselves, and also learned our language. It 125 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: seemed fitting to certain discreet persons that they should receive 126 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: the sacrament of baptism, which was administered accordingly. The boy, 127 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: who appeared to be the younger, surviving his baptism but 128 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: a little time, died prematurely. His sister, however, continued in 129 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: good health and differed not in the least from the 130 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: women of our own country. Afterwards, as it is reported, 131 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: she was married at Lynne, and was living a few 132 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: years since, at least, so they say. Moreover, after they 133 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: had acquired our language, on being asked who and whence 134 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: they were, they are said to have replied, we are 135 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: inhabitants of the land of St. Martin, who was regarded 136 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: with peculiar veneration in the country which gave us birth. 137 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: Being further asked where that land was and how they 138 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: came thence hither they answered, we are ignorant of both 139 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: these circumstances, and we only remember this that on a 140 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: certain day, when we were feeding our father's flocks in 141 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: the fields, we heard a great sound, such as we 142 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: are now accustomed to hear at St. Edmund's when the 143 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: bells are charming. And whilst listening to the sound and admiration, 144 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: we became, on a sudden, as it were entranced, and 145 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: found ourselves among you in the fields where you were reaping. 146 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: Being questioned whether in that land they believed in Christ 147 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: or whether the sun arose, they replied that the country 148 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: was Christian and possessed churches. But said, they quote, the 149 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: sun does not rise upon our countrymen. Our land is 150 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: little cheered by its beams. We are contented with that 151 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: twilight which among you precedes the sunrise or follows the sunset. Moreover, 152 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: a certain luminous country is seeing not far distant from ours, 153 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: and divided from it by a very considerable river. These 154 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: and many other matters too numerous to particularize. They are 155 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: said to have recounted to curious inquirers, let everyone say 156 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: as he pleases and reason on such matters according to 157 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: his abilities. I feel no regret at having recorded an 158 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: event so prodigious and miraculous. So that's the story. I know. 159 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: Obviously they were asked a whole lot of other questions, 160 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: but it tickles me that the ones that he was 161 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: compelled to write down here were do you believe in Christ? 162 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: And also does the sun exist there? Uh? Yeah, maybe 163 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: they thought they were from another planet the realm that's 164 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 1: gonna come up. Yeah, they're from Saturn. Clearly. Obviously we're 165 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break before we get into some 166 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: of the historical elements that really eight to this story. Overall, 167 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: Williams and Ralph's versions of what happened with these Green 168 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: children are consistent with each other, although Williams is a 169 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 1: little bit longer and it has a few more details. 170 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: Both agreed that the children were taken to the home 171 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: of Lord Richard de Cown, who lived in Whites, which 172 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: is about six miles to the north of a little pit. 173 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: Williams mentioned of this isn't a footnote, which we didn't read, 174 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: which is why it probably does not ring a bell. 175 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: They both talk about the children having green skin and 176 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: only eating beans, and eventually assimilating with the rest of 177 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,599 Speaker 1: the community, with the brother dying sometime after being baptized, 178 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: and unlike in the version we read, though, Ralph makes 179 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: it sound as though only the sister lived long enough 180 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: to tell their story. He doesn't mention a particular name 181 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: for where they came from, and there's no certain luminous 182 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: country that they could see from their home. There's also 183 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: a slight difference in the two accounts concerning how the 184 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: children claimed that they came to be in Wolpit. We 185 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: read in William's version that they had been tending the 186 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: flocks before hearing a loud noise, quotes such as we 187 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: are now accustomed to hear at St. Edmunds when the 188 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: bells are chiming, but they didn't otherwise know how they 189 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: had wound up in Wolpit. Ralph, on the other hand, 190 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: said the children reported that they had become disoriented while 191 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: tending cattle, and they got lost, and then they followed 192 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: the sound of chiming bells through a long series of 193 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: underground passages before emerge emerging from a cave near Wolpit. 194 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: So bells are involved in both of them in a 195 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: slightly different way. One is sort of like they're hoping 196 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: to get home theoretically right, and the other is just 197 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: that they the bells put them in some odd mental state, 198 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: that they went into a fugue state and traveled to Wolpit. Yes, okay. 199 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: The two accounts do diverge in what happened to the 200 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: surviving sister of the pair as well. So we read 201 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: in William's account that she married a man living in Lynn, 202 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: but Ralph says that she became a servant in Lord 203 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: Richard de Cown's house and of there for many years, 204 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily happily, though he calls her quote very wanton 205 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: and impudent. Regardless, William indicates that she was still living 206 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: when he wrote his chronicle down, and there's been some 207 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: discussion about exactly when in the twelfth century this event 208 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: might have happened. William of Newburgh lived from roughly eleven 209 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: thirty six to eleven His version was probably written down 210 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: towards the end of his life. Ralph's version made it 211 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: into print after William's death sometime around twelve twenty, so 212 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: a lot of times we think, okay, the later account 213 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: is probably not quite as accurate, but even though Ralph's 214 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: version was written down later, he actually lived a lot 215 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: closer to Woolpit than William did, and he said he 216 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: had learned the story directly from Lord Richard to count 217 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: himself um, whereas William was hearing it all at least 218 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: second hand. And William notes that it was at harvest 219 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: time during the reign of King Stephen, which was from 220 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: five to eleven fifty four. Ralph, on the other hand, 221 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: says that it took place during the reign of his successor, 222 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: Henry the Second, which was from eleven fifty four to 223 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: eleven eighty nine. Author and archaeologist Brian Haughton points out 224 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: that there's no mention of the children in the Anglo 225 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: Saxon Chronicle, which documents English history up until Stephen's death 226 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: and includes a number of other odd and wondrous stories. 227 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: It's certainly possible that the Green Children aren't in the 228 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: Anglo Saxon Chronicle because its authors didn't know about it 229 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: or just didn't think it needed to be included. But 230 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: if it's not included because it hadn't happened yet, that 231 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: would put the time frame into Henry the Second's reign 232 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: rather than Stevens, and regarding William's notation of it being 233 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: harvest time, the beans that they were eating would have 234 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: been broad beans, which are more commonly known as s 235 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: fava beans in the United States. Those were picked around 236 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: July in August, so that's the approximate time of year, 237 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: and there is a lot to suggest that something really 238 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: did happen. The two accounts seemed who have been written 239 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: completely independently of one another, and although William does a 240 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: bit of protesting about how he knows that this story 241 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: sounds unbelievable, both men wrote as though they were documenting 242 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: a real event that actually happened. At the same time, 243 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: when both men were writing purportedly mystical, supernatural and miraculous 244 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: events were a lot more likely to be accepted at 245 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: face value than they might be today. It was pretty 246 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: much normal to write down something as odd as two 247 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: green children crawling out of a wolf pit and just 248 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: accepting the idea that something supernatural was at work without 249 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: really having to examine it further. The story of the 250 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: Green Children of Wolpit definitely stuck around into the thirteenth century, 251 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: and from there it became a little more obscure outside 252 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: the immediate area until the late fifteen hundreds, when the 253 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: first printed edition of Williams Historia Rim and Glacaram came out. 254 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: A new edition that came out in sixteen ten also 255 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: included Ralph's version to the story as a compliments to Williams. 256 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: With that it started making more appearances in written works 257 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: by other authors, who sometimes got understandably confused about which 258 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: version was Ralph's and which which version was Williams. I 259 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: in fact, got few confused about that repeatedly when working 260 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: on this podcast. It's easy to do retellings of the 261 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: story from the fifteenth century and beyond. Also, we're not 262 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: usually quite as credulous as Ralph and William had been. 263 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: William Camden writing in his work Britannia in six is 264 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: one example. Here's his description, and I wish I could 265 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: share all of the delightful spelling in his description with everyone. 266 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: It's pretty great. It's pretty awesome. Wolp. It is a 267 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: market town which meant merchant and soundeth as much as 268 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: the wolves Pit. And if we may believe new Brigensis, 269 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: who had told as pretty and formal a tale of 270 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: the place as is that fable called the True Narration 271 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: of Lucian, namely how two little boys for suits of 272 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: green color hand of satyrs kind after they had made 273 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: a long journey by passages underground, from out of another world, 274 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: from the antipoties in St. Martin's land, came up here 275 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: of whom you would know more repair to the author himself, 276 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: where you will find such a matter as will make 277 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: you laugh, your phil if you have a laughing spleen. 278 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: I feel like I definitely have a laughing spleen. I 279 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: think so yet that we have um made that prognosis. 280 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: That's official. I will call my family doctor uh. Newbrigensis 281 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: was a name for William of Newburgh. The quote True 282 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: Narration of Lucian is a second century satire by Lucian 283 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: of sam Asada which details a trip to the moon 284 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: that would rival our great Moon Hoax episode. There's a 285 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: whole bit about men with dogs heads that fight from 286 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: winged acorns, and flees as big as twelve elephants. Oh, 287 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: that's terrifying, and warriors armed with radishes flung from slings. 288 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: I love all of this. This work is obviously not 289 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: meant to be taken as fact, and Camden obviously does 290 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: not take the green children seriously at all. From there 291 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: the story of the Green Children started to influence other 292 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: more fanciful works. Francis Godwin, The Man in the Moon, 293 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: or a Discourse of a Voyage thither, which he called 294 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: a quote essay of fancy, talks about a novel disciplinary 295 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: method employed by parents on the moon where they would 296 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: send their unruly children down to Earth and brings them 297 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: earthly children back in their place. And in this whole 298 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: story he made reference to quote certain stories he had 299 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: heard confirming this idea it was true. And those certain 300 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: stories were Williams, Historia, Retram and Lucaram. I want to 301 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: know what happened to the earthly kids that lived on 302 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: the moon. Did they eventually get fed beans and turned green? 303 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: There's so many questions, he might say, I didn't read 304 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing. The Green Children have continued to make 305 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: appearances in fiction into the twentieth century and beyond. Herbert 306 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: Reid's novel The Green Child came out in nineteen thirty four. 307 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: The Green Children of Bagnios, set in Spain in eighteen 308 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: eighty seven, was part of John Macklin's nineteen sixty five 309 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: book Strange Destinies. The Spanish setting is echoed in the 310 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: nineteen seven ten thousand Maniacs on Green Children, which starts 311 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: in August Day in the Hills of Spain, a pair 312 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: of children emerged from a cave. And of course there 313 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: are lots of other stories and books and TV episodes 314 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 1: and the like that all draw from this as well. 315 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,239 Speaker 1: And it's not totally clear whether the Green Children are 316 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: the inspiration for the basic idea of Martians as little 317 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: green men, but they were definitely described as green, and 318 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: people were also speculating that maybe they were aliens. Early 319 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: and as the sixteenth century and outside of the world 320 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: of fiction, the Green Children also started being written about 321 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: as folklore in the nineteenth century. In eighteen fifty, Thomas 322 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: Kitelee included bits of both Williams and Ralph's accounts in 323 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: his work Fairy Mythology. This was the first time the 324 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: story was available to people who did not read Latin, 325 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: and since it was in a book by a folklorist 326 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: called Fairy Mythology, a lot of people from this point 327 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: assumed that story was inherently folkloric. Sometimes they're specifically fairies, 328 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: such as in Catherine Briggs Dictionary of Fairies, which came 329 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: out in nineteen seventy six. And there are also people 330 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: who interpret them as forest spirits or personifications of nature. 331 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: I feel like the whole like fairy myth right up through. 332 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: Tinkerbell was very informed by all of this. About the 333 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: same time as Kitele was documenting the story as folklore, 334 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: the Green Children were also becoming more widely known to 335 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: the general public. In eighteen seventy five, a guide book 336 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: to East Anglia referenced the Green Children, and then other 337 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: mentions and other travel guides followed, as you know, interesting 338 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: points of interests and interesting tidbits about the place that 339 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: you're visit it ng A sign at will Pit honoring 340 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: the story was erected in nineteen seventy seven as part 341 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: of Queen Elizabeth Silver Jubilee, and today the story is 342 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: like they're on the Village of Wilpit's web page. And 343 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: of course there are also a lot of rational or 344 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: not so rational explanations for what was really going on here, 345 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: and we're going to dive into those possibilities after we 346 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: first paused for a little sponsor break. So unsurprisingly, there 347 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: are lots of hypotheses about who the Green Children were 348 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: and where they came from. One connects them to the 349 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: Babes in the Wood, which was first written down as 350 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: a ballad in and The basic story of the Babes 351 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: in the Wood is that a very greedy uncle was 352 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: guardian to two young children and he was hoping to 353 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: steal their fortunes, so he hired some men to take 354 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: them into the woods and murder them. As so often 355 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: happens in these kinds of stories, the men he hired 356 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: didn't have the heart to do it and abandoned them instead, 357 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: so in the story, they eventually starved. This folk tale 358 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: is typically set in Whyland Wood, which is about thirty 359 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: miles or forty eight kilometers away from Woolpit, so people 360 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: suggesting that the Green Children were really the Babes in 361 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: the Wood just move the location closer by. And also 362 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: about four hundred years earlier than the ballads first written appearance. 363 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: That definitely doesn't mean the ballad didn't exist earlier, but 364 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: like four years of a long time for a ballad 365 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: to go without being written down, or story to go 366 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: without being written down, at least by this point in history. 367 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: So compounding the kind of far fetchedness of this explanation 368 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: is they go to rationale for why they were green, 369 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: which is chlorosis, otherwise known as green sickness. Now, while 370 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: there are rare forms of anemia that can cause a 371 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: person to have a kind of greenish pallor, along with 372 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: the idea that people who are really nauseated are described 373 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: as looking sometimes green sickness is not that. Green sickness 374 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: was described in medical literature from the sixteenth to late 375 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: nineteenth century. It was diagnosed almost exclusively in young women, 376 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: and it was also called the virgin's disease. The symptoms 377 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: included things like restlessness, irritability, fatigue, too little appetite, too 378 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: much appetite, indigestion, headache, and an absence of menstrual periods. 379 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: Treatments included blood letting, marriage always on a prescription pad, 380 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: and medicines to bring on menstrual flow. To be clear, 381 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: marriage really meant sex in this case, And there are 382 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: some extremely suggestive ballads dating back to the sixteenth and 383 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: seventeen centuries about treatments, and we're using the air quotes 384 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: there for green sickness. There's actually a Sawbones episode about 385 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: green sickness if you want to hear a whole lot 386 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: more about this. It also does not really take a 387 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: lot of Google effort to find these extremely suggestive ballads, 388 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: ballads about how to treat green sickness. So obviously they 389 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: probably didn't have green sickness, because that's not a real thing. Right. 390 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: And also those in in this sort of combination story 391 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: of the green children in the babes in the wood, 392 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: the folks who don't suggest that maybe they had clurosis 393 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: often suggest that maybe the hired men did actually try 394 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: to kill them using arsenic, that they had survived with 395 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: the arsenic had turned their skin green. This is a 396 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: weird conflation of sort of two different historical things. While 397 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: arsenic has definitely been used to make green dies, it 398 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: was typically exposure to those diyes that made a person's 399 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: skin turned green, not surviving an attempt to be poisoned 400 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: with it. Right, Arsenic in itself does not carry that 401 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: pigment right to a person's person. I guess if you 402 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: tried to murder someone with green dye, which you could 403 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: have done, you could have done, then you have green skin. 404 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: You'll be so fashionable and deceased. Yeah, that would be 405 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: a weird way to murder people. I'll make a great 406 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: story for any of our writers out there. You just 407 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: take that one, ather. Uh. The idea that the Green 408 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: children might have been aliens, which I love, goes all 409 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: the way back to William Camden, who suggested that they 410 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: were either Satyrs meaning wild men, or Antipodeans meaning aliens. 411 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: Robert Burton also made a passing reference to the idea 412 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: that they may have come from another planet in Anatomy 413 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: of Melancholy, which was published in sixteen twenty one. So 414 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: the aliens hypothesis has been around for a really long 415 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: time and it has persisted to the present. In article 416 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: in Analog, which is a science fiction magazine, Duncan Lunin 417 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: asserted that they were from a human colony on an 418 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: alien planet, sent here through a malfunctioning transporter, and this 419 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: explanation also involves the Knights Templar in some way. This 420 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: is one of the few things I didn't actually you 421 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: get to read for myself all the way through, some 422 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: relying on someone else's synopsis of it. But uh. Interestingly, 423 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: in a much more down to earth portion of this article, 424 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: he also pieced together a family treat for Richard to 425 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: count and claims that the surviving sister was baptized as 426 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: Agnes and that the man she married was a royal 427 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: official named Richard Barr. So that's a fascinating, possibly totally 428 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: legit historical fact in the context of this overall aliens 429 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: article with the Knights Templar involved, I wonder if that 430 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: means that someone could trace their alien heritage all the 431 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: way back to Agnes and you could know that you 432 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 1: are part from another planet, which you really all are, 433 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: because we're all made to start us to some degree. 434 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: True story, we're all aliens. The most complete practical explanation 435 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: for what might have happened came from Paul Harris in 436 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: and that was published in forty in Studies, which is 437 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: an offshoot of forty Times. I actually used a lot 438 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: of writing from one of the editors there for our 439 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: Devil's Footprints episode. Uh. And that's a magazine that's devoted 440 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: to strange phenomena. And he suggests that all of this 441 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: really happened in eleven seventy three in the Reign of 442 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: Henry the Second. In brief, Harris suggests that these were 443 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: the children of Flemish immigrants and that their parents were 444 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: killed at the Battle of Fornhum in eleven seventy three. 445 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: The St. Martin's Land that the sister referred to was 446 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: Fornhum St Martin, roughly ten miles or sixteen kilometers from Woolpits. 447 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: They're not that far away and also not far from 448 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: the River Lark, so there would have been a river nearby. 449 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: According to this theory, they escaped the battle, and then 450 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: the two children fled into Thetford forest and took refuge 451 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: in flint mines there before following the bells from Barry 452 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: St Edmund's to find their way out and make their 453 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: way to Woolpit. So their unknown tongue and clothing were 454 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: just Flemish and their skin was greenish due to malnutrition 455 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: due to this extended time of being abandoned and wandering 456 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: in flint mines. That all holds up. Uh. It all 457 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: sounds like it fits so very well, But of course 458 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: there are a few problems. One, the Flemish people killed 459 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: at for Hum were mercenaries hired to fight with English 460 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: rebels against Henry the Seconds Forces. Mercenaries generally, as a rule, 461 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: did not bring their children with them into battle. Uh. Two, 462 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: it seems unlikely that no one around Wolpit spoke Flemish 463 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: or some other version of Dutch, at least enough to 464 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: spot it as a known language rather than some unrecognizable tongue. Three, 465 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: the river Lark isn't really that big and even to 466 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: a child's eye, it's probably not quote a very considerable river. 467 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: So that descriptor does not really hold up. And for 468 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: this Fornhum to Thetford to Bury St Edmund's to Woolpit 469 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: trek really goes way out of the way. It's actually 470 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: a total of about thirty miles or fifty two kilometers, 471 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: the first leg of it going in nearly the direct 472 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: opposite direction from Wolpit. Thattford is also way too far 473 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: away from Barry st Edmund's to hear the bells from there. Also, 474 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: want a lot more just immediate non synchronization in the descriptions. 475 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: That battle happened in October. So unless those two kids 476 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: wandered for months and months and months before arriving in Wolpit, like, 477 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: there would not have been any fresh beans harvest and 478 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: that because you'll remember that was what June July, I 479 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: think July August was when they are generally harvested. That's 480 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: nine months including winter, right with two tiny children. Yeah, 481 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: so malnourished, tiny children. So it's a mystery. Maybe they 482 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: made the Devil's footprints. Maybe so sick little side trip 483 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: play a little frank time traveled seven years maybe or 484 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: some other number of years, depending which account you ready. 485 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: So pretty much all of a historical um accounts, and 486 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: then also a lot of the his like farther back 487 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: in the past. Works of fiction that we talked about 488 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: today are all on the internet for free, and they 489 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: will all be linked from our show notes to this episode. 490 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: If you just really want to go read either a 491 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: colossally long history of the Church in England as translated 492 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: UH in the nineteenth century, or if you just want 493 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: to read some weird science fictionesque stories about the moon 494 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: written in the distant past, Like that's all there. Who 495 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: doesn't want to read those? I kind of do the 496 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: whole thing about the flying acorns and the dog faced 497 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: people and the the specifically multiple number of elephants that 498 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: the fleas were as big as it's all, But people 499 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: are pretty much on their own if they want to 500 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: go looking for the dirty ballads? Is that where we 501 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: decided the Dirty Ballads are not linked into one of 502 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: them is definitely not safe for work. Um. But so, 503 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: as I was trying to put together some thoughts about 504 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: green sickness. I found a larger than I would expect 505 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: number of just very incredulous papers published in journals that 506 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: were like, do you think green sickness could have been 507 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: caused by malnutrition? No? I think green sickness probably was 508 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: caused by misogyny. But but one of them like this, 509 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: it started out seeming like they were genuinely asking whether 510 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: there was some kind of organic mechanism at work, and 511 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: then the conclusion was like no, really, like people just 512 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: got really into Hippocrates and started making these Hippocratic diagnoses, 513 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: and that's why it suddenly enters this historical record at 514 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: this time and leaves and this time. But it was 515 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: through that one article that I found this particularly risk 516 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: a ballad which you know, if you're an adult person 517 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: with kind of a skewed sense of humor, it is 518 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: always funny to me and a little a little bit 519 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: of a silly and almost borderline charming way to read 520 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: sort of dirty writing. And I'm again I'm using the 521 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: air quotes from really olden times because their choice of 522 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: words is just very funny to today's year, and that's 523 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: what makes it hilarious. Yeah, So I don't know. If 524 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: you try to search for this yourself and you come 525 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: up with with no responses, just send us an email 526 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: history podcast at how stuff works dot com. I will 527 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: tell you where to find it. Tracy is going to 528 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: peddle the dirty paddles. You have listener mail that is 529 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: not a dirty valid I sure do, and it's not 530 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: dirty yet. All Kyle sent us a note, and Kyle says, Ladies, 531 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: I would like to start off by saying, this is 532 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: my first time writing in, but I love your podcast 533 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: and listen to it all the time at work. I'm 534 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: a huge history buff and I'm always fascinated how the 535 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: actions and events surrounding a single person can affect the 536 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: entire world of billions. Three perfect examples of this were 537 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: in your episode three Nuclear Close Calls. They were very 538 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: intra stories about how people in the Cold War prevented 539 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: armageddon through quick thinking and faith and their fellow humans. 540 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure I won't be the only person to write 541 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: in about this, but news just came in a few 542 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: hours ago confirming the death of Stanislav Petrov, one of 543 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: the three people featured in the podcast. He passed away 544 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: in May, according to multiple sources, but most people are 545 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: just learning of it now. He was the perfect example 546 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: of how the level headed thinking of one individual can 547 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: and did save the world as we know it today. 548 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: I was born after the incident which happened in three 549 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: but I can say with confidence that I and so 550 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: many more would not be alive if not for his actions. 551 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: And then Uh notes that his parents lived in a 552 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: city that, as I probably would have been a target. 553 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: The world owes Mr Petrov and so many others like 554 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: him a tremendous debt, and I am glad that now, 555 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: if delayed, many mainstream media outlets are publishing stories about 556 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: his deeds. Keep up the great work your podcast keep 557 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: me saye during some of my most tedious hours at work. 558 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: So thanks for that. And then he included some links 559 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: to stories about the death of Stanislav Petrov. Thank you 560 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: so much, Kyle. That music came UH to the four. 561 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: It's true. It was like back in May that he 562 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: that he died. Um, but this news started to circulate 563 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: while I was on vacation and Holly was at Salt 564 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: Lake Comic Con, so it was like we were not 565 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: really at our desks to just spread the word on 566 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: our social media or whatever. So I want to take 567 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: the opportunity to note it in the show today. Yeah, 568 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: thanks Kyle, Yeah, thank you very much. Thanks to everyone 569 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: else who's written us awesome notes about things or queries 570 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: about where we have found things on our on our show. 571 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: So if you would like to write to us or 572 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: at history podcasts at how stuff works dot com. We're 573 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: also on Facebook and Pinterest and Tumbler and Instagram, all 574 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: of those at missed in History And if you come 575 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: to our website, which is missed in History dot com, 576 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: there's a searchable archive of all the episodes that have 577 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: ever been on the show. There are show notes for 578 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: all the episodes that Holly and I have ever done. 579 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: There are lots of tags that we have and you 580 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: can click on on our website and that will take 581 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: you to lots of other episodes that are about that 582 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: same subject. So there's a whole lot you can do 583 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: if you come to miss in History dot com. For 584 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how 585 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com.