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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people. Did cool stuff. You're

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Speaker 1: weekly reminder of what happens when bosses drag out a

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Speaker 1: strike so long that it drives people out of their homes.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're gonna talk about today.

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Speaker 2: Not for nothing.

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Speaker 3: I learned this morning that it was Bob Iger's fault

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Speaker 3: that they revealed the murderer of Laura Palmer too soon

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Speaker 3: on Twin Peaks. So if anyone was looking for an

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Speaker 3: additional reason, if you really want to get granular and petty,

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Speaker 3: that was a fun one.

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Speaker 1: That is reason enough.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm willing to I'm willing to take it. To

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Speaker 3: perceive slights, I don't care whatever turns people against this man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Jamie Loftus over there, rabble rousing. Jamie Office

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Speaker 1: is my guest this week. Hy, Jamie. How you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm great.

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Speaker 3: I've been thinking about the Molly McGuire is quite a

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Speaker 3: bit this weekend.

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Speaker 2: Over the weekend because.

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Speaker 3: I saw my irishest family last night, including my cousin

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Speaker 3: who's Molly McGuire. Molly McGuire, and I mentioned this and

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Speaker 3: she responded with huh, So I think that the whole

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Speaker 3: family is going to learn a lot from my family.

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Speaker 1: She's going to think about her name after that.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 3: It is canonically a coincidence because my grandma's maiden name,

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Speaker 3: but I think she'll think it's cool that well, actually

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Speaker 3: I don't know how the story ends, so maybe not it.

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Speaker 1: We'll get there.

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Speaker 3: I'll do like a Titanic situation and be like just

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Speaker 3: listen to just watch VHS one, no need to watch

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Speaker 3: VHS two.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little bit of the whole thing where

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Speaker 1: sometimes I've fish people in Ireland are more radical than

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Speaker 1: Irish people in the US, But I still think that

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Speaker 1: they're They're real interesting and cool. There's just there's more

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Speaker 1: asterisks in this in this episode than the previous episode.

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Speaker 1: I'm prepared, but also with us is Sophie Lichterman, our

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Speaker 1: producer sub so Pi so Phi.

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Speaker 4: I've agreed to record this podcast at nine am on

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Speaker 4: a Monday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Usually we make this like cole elaborate joke where

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Speaker 1: there's like only fifteen minute break between the two episodes

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Speaker 1: when we record, but this time there was actually a

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Speaker 1: longer break between the episodes for us than for you.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that wild?

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: Our audio engineers Ian Hi Ian Hi Ian Hien and

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Speaker 1: our music was written for us by un woman. This

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Speaker 1: is part two of a two parter. You probably figured

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Speaker 1: that out. It's about the Molly Maguires. You also probably

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Speaker 1: figured that out either by looking at the title or

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Speaker 1: by listening to us talk. But in part one we

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Speaker 1: learned about how when you try to enclose the commons

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Speaker 1: in Ireland, a bunch of people put on dresses, questionable

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Speaker 1: makeup and murder you. And so now we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about what happens when some of those people moved

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Speaker 1: to the United States, where spoiler alert, the working conditions

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Speaker 1: are not good for people who have no money.

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Speaker 2: Hold on run that back.

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Speaker 1: The land of opportunity was the land of an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to be exploited.

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Speaker 3: Right, I mean, some of these people, if that was

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Speaker 3: that was that was the dream all along?

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Speaker 1: Was that probably was the dream alone to be wildly exploited. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a kink, I guess that. I mean, almost starving

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Speaker 1: in Appalachia is better than litter released starving in Ireland.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about Appalachia. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about Pennsylvania in particular, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about a Pennsylvania primarily in the eighteen sixties. But you know,

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Speaker 1: being US will jump around a bunch. The US it

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Speaker 1: liked coal in the eighteen sixties. It still does. See

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Speaker 1: the aforementioned We're all going to drown as the water's rise,

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Speaker 1: and the US needed lots of coal. Fortunately it had

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Speaker 1: lots of it, fortunately for the industrialization of the US

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Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century. Not fortunately for US one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty years later. Yeah, they'd never found this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we would have found some other way to

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Speaker 1: fuck everything up. So the best quality coal is called

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Speaker 1: anthracite coal. Northeastern Pennsylvania has a ton of anthracite coal,

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Speaker 1: is the world's biggest deposit of anthracite coal. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of Irish people fleeing starvation and colonization, they

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Speaker 1: show up to be settlers in a different colonized country,

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Speaker 1: the United States. They show up in Pennsylvania, which I

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Speaker 1: hate typing, as I'm mentioned last time, because it's annoying

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Speaker 1: to spell. Specifically, they showed up in Schoukol County, which

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Speaker 1: is not an indigenous name. It's Dutch for hidden stream.

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Speaker 1: This had been Lenape Land until they were forced off

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Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy eight. By the eighteen forties, the area

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Speaker 1: was still very very rural and or wild. This is

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Speaker 1: like one of the kind of Appalachia being like still

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Speaker 1: one of the least populated parts of the United States,

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Speaker 1: even though it's like right in the middle of where

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Speaker 1: colin you know where the United States part is. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like all around Appalachia, right, there's like

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Speaker 1: a ton of people. Right the east mid Atlantic is

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Speaker 1: a very densely populated area, but you go into the

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Speaker 1: mountains and that stops being the case. So where this

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Speaker 1: coal is is very rural. There were two coal fields

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Speaker 1: in the area. There was a northern one, which was

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Speaker 1: geologically blessed with being near surface coal that was easier

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Speaker 1: to mine. This was mined by large corporations. Then there's

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Speaker 1: the southern field where our Irish wound up. And this

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Speaker 1: is smaller scale operations, like more like mom and pop

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Speaker 1: exploiter shops with only a couple hundred employees instead of

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Speaker 1: like these, you know, thousands of employees.

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Speaker 3: A small I mean, I love a small scale exploitation, yeah,

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Speaker 3: Because then there's always the American dream.

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Speaker 2: You can always dream of exploiting at a higher level.

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Speaker 1: What if one day you get to put the boot

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Speaker 1: on someone's neck.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna need a pair of bigger boots.

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Speaker 1: I know, on those boots m m our bootstraps, like

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Speaker 1: the like the little loop on the back of the boot.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: I honestly think of those hideous flat Greek sandals like

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Speaker 3: the cool girls wore in the early two thousands.

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Speaker 2: When I think, if I think.

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Speaker 3: There's sandal straps, I don't even think of boots.

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Speaker 1: Those shoes were evil.

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Speaker 2: That was that was out of my pay grade. Socially.

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Speaker 4: I tryed literally, I'm trying to look up what a

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Speaker 4: bootstrap is. But there's like some company called Bootstrap and

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Speaker 4: their horrible logo, which is just a giant purple bee

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Speaker 4: is the only.

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Speaker 2: Which boots have Which boots have strapped? I associate boots with,

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Speaker 2: you know, laces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like my boots have a

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Speaker 1: little loop on the back that you can use to

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Speaker 1: pull the boot on. That's the best I can think.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's I've interacted with that kind of bootstrap.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it's just I don't want to

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Speaker 4: see the giant purple bee.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what it is.

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Speaker 3: It's yet another way that the American dream. It's it's

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Speaker 3: fake down to the language.

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Speaker 4: They're like, the answer on here is not what we

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Speaker 4: want because you can't actually pull you.

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Speaker 1: I heard somewhere, and this is not in my script,

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Speaker 1: so I can't like a test to this. I heard

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Speaker 1: somewhere that bootstrap the whole, like pick yourself up by

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Speaker 1: the bootstraps was actually like a leftist prays making fun

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Speaker 1: of the American dream. It was like, oh, yeah, just

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Speaker 1: pick yourself up by the bootstraps, that's possible. And then

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Speaker 1: everyone's like, okay.

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Speaker 3: It almost sounds it almost sounds like how much could

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Speaker 3: a banana cost ten dollars?

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: They're like, well, yeah, because rich people aren't wearing wearing

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Speaker 3: them boots.

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Speaker 4: The parts of the I have the definition, nfo, oh

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Speaker 4: it is it is the loop. It is the loop.

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Speaker 4: Like for example, look at this boot. They got two

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Speaker 4: of them on the side.

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Speaker 2: What a useful chart? Yeah, two different arrows pointing at

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Speaker 2: the loop.

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Speaker 4: But if Yeah, the first like seven things on Google

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Speaker 4: were telling me something about a popular CSS framework, and

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Speaker 4: then the next one was telling me that it means

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Speaker 4: advancing oneself or accomplishing something without aid.

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Speaker 1: So I interpretation, Yeah, there should be an instead of Kickstarter,

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Speaker 1: there should be a site called bootstrapper, and it's a

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Speaker 1: site where you sign up and you just don't get

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Speaker 1: any money. Yeah, and you just can't. You actually just

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Speaker 1: can't accomplish anything sport. Okay, So the southern coal fields

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Speaker 1: where you have lots of bootstrappers, they dug deeper with

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Speaker 1: worse equipment and worse pay. People were getting the equivalent

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Speaker 1: in like twenty twenty three money of fifty dollars a

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Speaker 1: day for work that will one hundred percent murder you.

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Speaker 1: Like pretty much everyone who doesn't die in the course

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Speaker 1: of the violence that will be in this episode dies

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Speaker 1: from black lung. The Irish who showed up there. They

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Speaker 1: are some of the roughest and poorest of the Irish immigrants,

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Speaker 1: which is fucking saying something. And unlike most of the

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Speaker 1: rest of the eighteen forties Irish immigrants into the United States,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them don't speak English. You have a

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Speaker 1: larger wave of Irish speaking immigrants in the eighteen eighties

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Speaker 1: or so, But in the eighteen forties, as we talked

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Speaker 1: about last time, a lot of folks who are coming

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Speaker 1: from places where people still spoke Irish were able to

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Speaker 1: hold on in Ireland a little bit more so, it's

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Speaker 1: very unlikely that these people were like card carrying Molly

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Speaker 1: McGuire's when they show up. It's like they weren't like,

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Speaker 1: let's go to America and start a chapter of Molly McGuire's.

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Speaker 1: Probably they weren't even like, oh god, we have to leave,

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Speaker 1: we're starving and were Molly McGuire's, so let's go do

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Speaker 1: that instead. Molly McGuire Ism was as much a sort

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Speaker 1: of spirit of resistance and a tactic as much as

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Speaker 1: it was an actual secret society. It was also what

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Speaker 1: you called every Irish person you don't like.

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Speaker 3: So is that another I mean, I know we were

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Speaker 3: talking about that in the last episode as well. Where

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Speaker 3: because the history like that, Because Molly McGuire could be

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Speaker 3: used as a pejorative, it could be used to reference

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Speaker 3: an organized group, or it could be used just to

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Speaker 3: like explain it kind of just a shorthand for a

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Speaker 3: resistance mentality. Does that kind of muddle up the history

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Speaker 3: of like who is actually associated with what.

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Speaker 2: And how things sort of shake out?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's hundreds of there's like one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty years of historians arguing about whether the Molly Maguires

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Speaker 1: are real. Oh great, Like, it is possible that is

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Speaker 1: entirely just what they were called by their enemies. It

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Speaker 1: is far more likely that they existed, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the they're not real like people compare it to

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Speaker 1: being like when people are like the mafia isn't real, Like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they don't admit that they exist, but they exist, you know, okay,

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Speaker 1: but it's hard to peace out what is? What there was, however,

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Speaker 1: a public society, It was semi secret society, a fraternal organization.

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Speaker 1: The first organization that the Irish form in the New

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Speaker 1: World is called the Ancient Order of the Hiberians. This

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Speaker 1: is not actually an ancient Order, but the cool thing

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Speaker 1: to call your group, Like, yeah, how.

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Speaker 2: A should we talk it? A couple couple of years

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Speaker 2: ago it was.

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Speaker 1: Let's see, I want to say, eighteen thirty six. Nice,

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Speaker 1: but they formed as the Ancient Order. They've been called

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Speaker 1: this since. Actually, no, you're exactly right. They took the

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Speaker 1: name Ancient Order in eighteen thirty eight, when they've been

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Speaker 1: around for two years.

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Speaker 2: That rocks.

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Speaker 3: I think that fans of like K pop groups should

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Speaker 3: start doing that. Yeah, yeah, just start calling themselves an

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Speaker 3: Ancient Order. At random. Where's the harm? It sounds fucking cool.

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Speaker 1: If your group isn't a league, a lodge or an

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Speaker 1: ancient order, what are you doing? That's why we're pleased

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Speaker 1: to announce Cool Zone, the ancient Order of.

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Speaker 3: Pool Zone, the ancient Order of Cloth on media cool down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah cool, we should just have a place called cool Lodge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm verge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah all right, Sophi's approved it.

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Speaker 4: It's all great ideas. And as the head of the

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Speaker 4: Ancient Order of the Cool Zone, let me just grabbed my.

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Speaker 1: Giant staff that I loot. Yeah, yet you got a sword,

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Speaker 1: I think definitely.

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Speaker 4: Like one of those like Gandalf sword slash staff situations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, with your sword in one hand, staff and the other.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're wearing a very complicated hat right now is

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Speaker 3: how I would describe it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: With the complicated hat has studio headphones built into it, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's a podcasting order, Yeah obviously.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's a mic at the top of the

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Speaker 3: staff too. It's actually a very functional unlike a lot

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Speaker 3: of yeah functional, it's very women's fashion is historically not functional,

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Speaker 3: and I think that you're really you're really changing the

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Speaker 3: narrat thank you yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this particular fraternal organization they're still around and they suck.

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Speaker 1: Now sick. They they tried to ban gay Irish American

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Speaker 1: groups from the Saint Patrick's today, Saint Patrick's Day Parade

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Speaker 1: and York City. They've probably sucked for a really long time.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they sucked back in the eighteen

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Speaker 1: thirties when we first started talking about them, but going

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Speaker 1: back to nineteen hundred, they were the right wing side

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Speaker 1: of Irish Republicanism. The Irish Republican Brotherhood, which is the

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Speaker 1: precursor to the IRA, actually always hated them for being

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Speaker 1: right wing nationalists. And the Ancient Order showed their true

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Speaker 1: colors in the Irish Civil War when they backed the

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Speaker 1: Treaty with England and the division of Ireland, and then

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Speaker 1: in the Spanish Civil War where they went and fought

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Speaker 1: for Franco the fascist. Ooh, I think that the Ancient

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Speaker 1: Order of Iberians is honestly like what annoying right Wingish Americans,

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Speaker 1: you know, like right wing Irish Americans think that the

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Speaker 1: IRA is like right wing because as a rored Republican

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Speaker 1: in it.

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Speaker 3: Oh right, yeah, this Americans are not Americans also not

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Speaker 3: immune to.

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Speaker 1: This yeah, if you want. If if you're listening to

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Speaker 1: this and you're a right wing Irish person, don't are

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Speaker 1: Irish American. The ira is not your, guys, but the

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Speaker 1: ancient order of the Hiberians is. So they might have

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Speaker 1: been a right for the first few decades. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: They formed in eighteen thirty six in New York City

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Speaker 1: and Schoogle County, and they took the name in eighteen

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Speaker 1: thirty eight. And they basically existed at first to protect

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Speaker 1: Catholic churches, and Catholic folks were facing a lot of

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Speaker 1: like anti papist, anti Catholic sentiment, right, and so they

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Speaker 1: formed to protect those institutions. In most places, it was

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Speaker 1: a very peaceful, sort of boring place. In the coal fields,

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Speaker 1: they had really significant overlap with the molly maguires, okay.

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Speaker 1: And and the miners, especially the Irish miners, who actually

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Speaker 1: will get into this. They weren't miners, they were mine laborers, okay.

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Speaker 2: And then what was the distinction there?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love that you actually have a functional memory.

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Speaker 5: This.

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Speaker 1: That is why it's better if I record the two

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Speaker 1: things in a row. We did talk about this last time.

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Speaker 1: I think it had.

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Speaker 3: To do with being outside of the mines, but still

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Speaker 3: working for the mines.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 1: No? That no, that's what kids had to do.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, sorry, I'm thinking of the miners again. Okay, yeah, really.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you have three groups. You have the miners with

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Speaker 1: an E, the mine laborers, and then the miners with

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Speaker 1: an o oh my god. The miners with an E.

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Speaker 1: They go in and they're the skilled labor and they

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Speaker 1: go in and like pick where to mine, right, and

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Speaker 1: then they like sometimes do the actual sort of mining.

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Speaker 1: But then they just like leave the coal on the ground.

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Speaker 1: As best as I can tell, it'll be like a

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Speaker 1: little different in different minds because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different physical methods of mining, and the mine laborers are

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Speaker 1: also hanging out down there, and then they have to

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Speaker 1: gather the coal and put it in the carts and

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Speaker 1: carry it out and all this shit, okay, and they

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Speaker 1: have the most dangerous jobs in the mine, okay. So

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Speaker 1: they live off of like fifty dollars a day and

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Speaker 1: modern money. Extended households lived under one roof, usually a

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Speaker 1: married couple. There are kids, some relatives, and some borders right,

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Speaker 1: if not an entire second family. Many households were run

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Speaker 1: by widows because a lot of men kept dying in

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Speaker 1: industrial accidents. Kids, of course, worked, both boys and girls.

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Speaker 1: Girls didn't work in the minds, but as domestics and

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Speaker 1: doing sewing or whatever, basically anything to bring in money

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Speaker 1: because you all are fucking starving.

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Speaker 3: So I'm I feel like, I'm this is I know

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Speaker 3: the answer to this question already, But how do you

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Speaker 3: know how young they were starting?

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Speaker 2: And I'm assuming there's like.

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Speaker 3: No form of like any organized education happening at this time,

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Speaker 3: or was there.

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Speaker 1: I'm under the impression that there's not a formalized education

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Speaker 1: at this time, Okay, But I actually don't know the

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Speaker 1: answer to that. I know a lot of the kids

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Speaker 1: were starting at like seven, but overall it was more

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Speaker 1: like preteens, gotcha, okay. And so at first, the mining

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Speaker 1: in the area was like surface shafts and you would

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Speaker 1: just go down to hit the water level and then

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Speaker 1: you stop right because it's the fucking middle of the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century. You don't got a way to get water

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Speaker 1: out of a hole. By the eighteen seventies, they moved

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Speaker 1: more to tunnel mining, and they also started working below

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Speaker 1: the water level by pumping water out. They also use

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Speaker 1: something called room and pillar mining, which is where you

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Speaker 1: mine a bunch of coal but leave some pillars made

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Speaker 1: out of coal in the room of coal. Right, you

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Speaker 1: can hold up the hold up the roof, but then

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Speaker 1: someone has to go in and remove the pillars because

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Speaker 1: that's coal too. You can't just leave that in the

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Speaker 1: ground and then the room collapses. This is dangerous. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there are all kinds of other dangers. They had

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Speaker 1: funny names for all the different smells of gases that

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Speaker 1: would kill them.

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Speaker 2: Ooh, hit me.

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Speaker 1: The stink damp, the fire damp, the black damp, and

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Speaker 1: the white damp.

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Speaker 3: They should be poopery variantow and so you have ahead

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Speaker 3: and those are all different like shorthands for a distinct Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I forgot to write though, like it's like not carbon

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Speaker 1: monoxidecause that doesn't smell, but it's like carbon dioxide or yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't write them down. There's a lot of different

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Speaker 1: things that will kill you. But you know what true

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Speaker 1: isn't trying to kill you until it gets all of

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Speaker 1: your money.

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Speaker 3: Could it, by any chance be the amazing products and

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Speaker 3: services that are sponsoring this fine program.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and we recommend almost all of your money

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Speaker 1: on these products. And services, but holding onto a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So there's still a reason that capitalism wants you alive.

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Speaker 1: Here's some ads. Okay, we're back. And so I was saying,

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Speaker 1: there's the difference between the miners the skilled work. The

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Speaker 1: skilled miners they had apprenticeships. They actually had some independence

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Speaker 1: in the earlier part of the nineteenth century. By the

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Speaker 1: end of the nineteenth century they don't once the big

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Speaker 1: companies come in, and then you have mine laborers who

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Speaker 1: are usually paid by the miners, and they get paid

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Speaker 1: about a third of what a miner did.

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Speaker 2: Wow, the Welshian needs it's been much as it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the Welsh and the English got

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Speaker 1: to be miners and the Irish got to be laborers.

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Speaker 1: To an overwhelming degree. There was very consistent discrimination against

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Speaker 1: the Irish in terms of employment opportunities and housing opportunities

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of things. There was, specifically in this

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Speaker 1: time and place, an ethnic hierarchy that went American, British, Welsh, German,

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Speaker 1: Irish Jesus. Okay, yeah, people get really wanting to before

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Speaker 1: they figured out, like I mean, okay, they already had racism, right,

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Speaker 1: but you know, before they Yeah, people really want to

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Speaker 1: find reasons to hate other people over weird ethnic bullshit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's like and the fact that Irish, I mean,

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Speaker 3: the Irish are at the bottom of that totem pole

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Speaker 3: and just leaving other people out entirely don't even make

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Speaker 3: the totem pole right.

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Speaker 1: Well, and it's like, and actually that's going to come up.

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Speaker 1: This particular area didn't have any the other way lower

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Speaker 1: than any white worker. And people always say that Irish weren' white,

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Speaker 1: and I don't remember I talked with this last time,

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Speaker 1: but it's like they were white, they were just ethnically

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Speaker 1: they faced ethnic oppression, but they were far above Chinese

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Speaker 1: and black workers, which there largely weren't any in this

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Speaker 1: time and place. At least according to everything I read,

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Speaker 1: they would have been higher than certainly black workers and

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Speaker 1: Chinese workers. Yeah, okay, only about eleven percent of Schoogle

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Speaker 1: County was Irish. They were slightly less than half the

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Speaker 1: foreign born population there, but in the mining towns they

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Speaker 1: had a clear majority. The other big group was the Welsh,

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Speaker 1: and the two groups fought a lot. They had kind

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Speaker 1: of a gang warfare going on that was ethnic because

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Speaker 1: the Welsh, who were seen basically as British were given

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Speaker 1: the choice jobs and so facing all this different oppression

401
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: being mistreated, they formed themselves some Molly McGuire's once again,

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Speaker 1: they left basically no evidence of their own and for

403
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Speaker 1: decades in the area. There's two competing ideas about how

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Speaker 1: to handle exploitation. Right, there's the British way, which is

405
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: trade unionism. This was developed during the Industrial Revolution in Britain.

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Speaker 1: I think it comes from Chartism, but I didn't like

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Speaker 1: fall far enough down that rabbit hole to like speak

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Speaker 1: more about chartism.

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Speaker 3: Ok.

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Speaker 1: And this is using strikes and overall it is an

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Speaker 1: attempt at a non violent approach. Obviously strikes, particularly in

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, did end up very violent, but the

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Speaker 1: like the larger picture strategy of trade unionism was about

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Speaker 1: strikes and non violence. Okay, then there's go ahead.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 3: I just was curious of how much Molly mcguiresm in

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Speaker 3: Irish people who immigrated to the US, how much it

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Speaker 3: resembled what we were seeing or what we were talking

419
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Speaker 3: about of what was happening in Ireland. Is it more

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Speaker 3: of a continuity of thought and resistance or are there

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Speaker 3: like visual or like organizing hallmarks to to the Molly mcguires.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about it a bit more, but overall, in

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Speaker 1: the US, the Molly McGuire's kept well they kept the

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Speaker 1: bad makeup, and they didn't.

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Speaker 2: I was like, did they did they keep?

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Speaker 3: So they kept the makeup, they did dropped the dress

427
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Speaker 3: the cross. Well, that's honestly disappointing. I would prefer exactly

428
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Speaker 3: the reverse.

429
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Speaker 2: Yeah, what are you gonna do? All right?

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got this English method of dealing with

431
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: exploitation that is like polite. Then there's the Irish way,

432
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Speaker 1: which is direct and violent action against the people who

433
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Speaker 1: exploit you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

435
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Speaker 1: I'm not going to make an argument about which one

436
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Speaker 1: worked better, because neither one worked in this story. Frankly,

437
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: this is not a story with a happy ending, Okay,

438
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Speaker 1: but I will say how much I love the industrial

439
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: workers of the world.

440
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 4: A story with a happy ending.

441
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: No, See, that's the thing about cool people, the cool stuff.

442
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: It's a happy middle.

443
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 4: Thanks.

444
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: The real treasure was the violence we enacted all along.

445
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 3: Wow, it really was about the violent and exploitation chated.

446
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 1: But okay, much like the Irish were being cheated in

447
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: so eventually unionism and direct action of other sorts actually

448
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: start kind of becoming a little bit better friends at

449
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: different points. Eighteen forty two, the US is five years

450
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: into a depression. Miners start getting paid in goods instead

451
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: of money. This wasn't company store times because it's the

452
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: small operators. This is like before mining gets really bad, right,

453
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: but it's still really bad. It's amazing that it could

454
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: get worse from where it was so July seventh, eighteen

455
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: forty two, some workers protested and they marched from a

456
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: small town to the county seat of Pottsville. And they're

457
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: armed with clubs. They're shutting down the mines as they pass.

458
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: This is not this is all ethnicities. Soon fifteen hundred

459
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: folks are marching and they try to form a union,

460
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: and the operators refuse to accept it, and the strike fails.

461
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: In eighteen forty nine, they successfully form a union. It's

462
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: called the Bates Union. It's run by a guy named

463
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: Bait Baits. The main argument that they have is that

464
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: they want to get paid in cash for the work

465
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: they do instead of like promises of goods, right m hm.

466
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: This union tried hard to push the idea that workers

467
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: and bosses had the same interests, such as keeping the

468
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: cost of coal high. And this was like a thing

469
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: during a lot of this trade unionism is basically trade

470
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: unionism didn't start off trying to be like we hate you, bosses.

471
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: It tried to be like, hey, what if we work together?

472
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: You know. Unfortunately the guy Bates it was named after,

473
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: probably he took all the union money and ran off.

474
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: No, well see that's it's a red flag to name

475
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: the union after yourself.

476
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: It almost is like he unionized with himself.

477
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. He's like, everyone giving me money, I'll put

478
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: it where it needs to go.

479
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: That's a good Yeah.

480
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: No one should be naming a union after themselves and

481
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 3: not the collective that is it.

482
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 2: That's a major red flag, all right.

483
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: Well, not not to victim blame, but yeah, you know,

484
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 3: maybe maybe there was chad of yeah, why did we

485
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 3: name it after a guy?

486
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't do that again, at least in eighteen

487
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: fifty eight. They do the union thing again. In eighteen

488
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: fifty eight, the miners went on strike for higher wages,

489
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: and during this time you get some coffin notices posted around,

490
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: basically with drawings of pistols and coffins that are like, hey,

491
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: you'd better not scab. Only you ever heard the word

492
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: black leg for a scab. No, I hadn't either. Black

493
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: leg is an old timey word for it's distinct from

494
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: a scab. A scab, at least in nineteenth century, is

495
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: a hired worker from somewhere else who breaks a strike.

496
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,959
Speaker 1: A black leg is someone who works there already who

497
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: doesn't join the strike. Okay, And so most of their

498
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: stuff they're using the terminology black leg, not scab.

499
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 3: Okay, And interesting, Okay, I've been hearing I mean, just

500
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 3: for no reason, all that I've been looking into, you know,

501
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 3: like granular terms, because it's I think that there's maybe

502
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 3: people that are getting extremely confused by how many different

503
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 3: terms there are for uh, for I think what is

504
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 3: now colloquially just but imagine I said it, right, yeah,

505
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: just called scabbing. But now you're like, oh no, there's

506
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 3: this there's this whole fun vernacular that we get to use.

507
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, yeah, Okay. So they set up, they start

508
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: go on strike. They're spreading out the coffin notices, which

509
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: is clearly there's some like Molly mcguiresm within the union. Right.

510
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: So the sheriff shows up with two companies of infantry,

511
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: one company of cavalry and one company of artillery to

512
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: put down the strike. Okay, it works. The US sure

513
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: hates organized labor. No one was killed, but three men

514
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: were sentenced to sixty days in prison for organizing the strike,

515
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: and the coffin notices were signed the children of Molly McGuire.

516
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: And so for the first time in the US, is

517
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: that so lit? I just love how dramatic that is.

518
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: It is.

519
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 2: I just like, bless, bless, bless.

520
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, Irish for just being just being extreme drama queens.

521
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 2: I love it.

522
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: The ancient order, the children of Molly McGuire, It's just

523
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: all so damn good.

524
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: I love our people. They're great, you know.

525
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: And so the the first probable this is the first

526
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: time that mcguiresm shows up in the US is eighteen

527
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: fifty eight. The first probable killing by the mcguires was

528
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: probably retributive. It's a Welshman shot and killed an Irishman

529
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: and then was found not guilty. So then that Welshman

530
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: was killed by a pit with a pickaxe by a

531
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: man who had quote blackened his face with powder.

532
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: Okay, kind of sounds like an open shutcase.

533
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, an irishman probably the guilty party was hanged

534
00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: for this, okay, and most of McGuire. McGuire is was

535
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: not personal vendettas. It was class and labor focused, and

536
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: the rest of their killings were class and labor focused.

537
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: But it wasn't their main method. Mcguireism wasn't even the

538
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: main method of these Irish immigrants. Strikes and militant labor

539
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: unionism was the start until that became impossible because because

540
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: of the Civil War.

541
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: Ah that.

542
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, okay, tell me about this Civil war.

543
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: I was taught about it all wrong at school.

544
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. God, today's heroes are not Civil war heroes. Uh,

545
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: really kind of sketchy on race overall, with their choice

546
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: and their makeup?

547
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: Am I on today?

548
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: I know? I know?

549
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: Is it just nine am on a Monday?

550
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: Or are you fucking with me? Macbat It's not both.

551
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: It's not as bad. I'll leave it to you all that. Okay.

552
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: So I don't know.

553
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 4: You wrote a sentence that says really kind of sketchy

554
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 4: on race overall, what with.

555
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: Their choice and makeup and their militant anti draft protests.

556
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: The sentence after the Civil War?

557
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: Okay, wait, yeah, tell me more expand on that, please?

558
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: So when the Irish in the US overall, especially here

559
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: in Scuogle County, when they would vote, they would vote Democrat.

560
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: Nineteenth Century politics in the US are a fucking mess.

561
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: The Democrats are less anti immigrant and less anti Catholic

562
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: than the Republicans. They're also the pro slavery Party and

563
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: the anti war party right anti the Union War effort

564
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: against the Confederacy. But until the Republican Party came around

565
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty four, all parties were the pro Slavery Party,

566
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: and the main opponent to the Democrats before them was

567
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: the Whigs, who briefly spun out into the No Nothing Party,

568
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: who are Protestant Zealots who hated Catholics and drinking and immigrants.

569
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: We talk about some of their like militant anti German

570
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: immigrant actions that they took in Chicago on I think

571
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: the very first episode of Cool People, Cool Stuff. The

572
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: No Nothings. They're not great. So the Irish have been Democrats, right,

573
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: that is their tradition because the other side fucking hates them.

574
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: But they are also Democrats because Democrats are kind of

575
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: the working class party, because the working class are sometimes

576
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: real fucking dense, and they bought into the line if

577
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: you free the slaves, they'll take your jobs. I have

578
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: no quotes from many Molly Maguire's one way or the

579
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: other about any of this, but they did vote Democrat,

580
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: and that is the overall picture of immigrant labor being

581
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: racist in the US. Okay, so the war starts and

582
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: two big things come as a real of this. First,

583
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: all labor actions are basically accused of being pro Confederate.

584
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: It is now treason to interrupt the flow of coal

585
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: to the federal government. Second, there's a draft. I would

586
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: argue that drafting people is immoral, but in this case,

587
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: the draft was specifically targeting to crush both the labor

588
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: movement and Maguireism in Schouogle County.

589
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: Oh so it's like turbo moral. Yeah, they're like, yeah.

590
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: Wait a second, Why is everyone who's being drafted an

591
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: Irish immigrant who specifically was fighting for the union?

592
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: Wow?

593
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, wait, you're going to want to draft everyone who's

594
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: ever advocated for themselves in their entire life. That's putting

595
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: immorality on a skateboard and giving it a hat, and

596
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: yeah all this other shit. Okay, Okay, so the labor

597
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 3: movement is okay, this is so I'm thinking meatpacking again

598
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: of just like being impacted by you know, I guess

599
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: function executive orders that it's like, we will, underno circumstances

600
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: shut down this industry where you are constantly put in

601
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 3: peril and are just trying to unionize, and we will,

602
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: you know. And it's unpatriotic of you too to not

603
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 3: want to play ball exactly as mandated.

604
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, So people start resisting the draft. In eighteen

605
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 1: sixty two, a mine foreman docks the Irish workers pay

606
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: and then yelled at some Irish workers for spitting on

607
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: the American flag, which they probably weren't doing for a

608
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: cool reason. The so the Irish workers killed the guy

609
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: the gou just docked their pay and yelled at them. Also,

610
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty two, miners go on strike, so the

611
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: sheriff brings the militia in a battalion of two hundred

612
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: men to keep order and keep people working. When the

613
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 1: draft comes, censuses go around to determine who to draft,

614
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: and these were met with resistance from women and kids.

615
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: The grown men had to hide, right, and so a

616
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: bunch of women went out and threw hot water sticks

617
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 1: and stones and hee haw, okay cool, yeah back yeah.

618
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: The person who oversaw the draft was this guy named Bannon,

619
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: who specifically hated the Irish Catholics and the Molly mcguires.

620
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 2: Something very name one good Bannon.

621
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 4: You know.

622
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: When the list of conscripts gets announced anyway, on October sixteenth,

623
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, it included a greatly disproportioned number of

624
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: Irish workers, especially those suspected of Anyone suspected of being

625
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: a Molly McGuire was drafted. So a thousand armed people blockade.

626
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Sorry, I get, but it's because the definition

627
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 3: of like, quote unquote being a Molly McGuire is so

628
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 3: viscous and vague it almost Yeah, it's like almost like

629
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 3: a McCarthyism kind of thing where they're like, we don't

630
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: like you.

631
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: Okay, No, it's absolutely a McCarthyism thing. And it's kind

632
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: of like with McCarthyism, everyone started being like, I'm not

633
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: a communist, what the fuck you're talking about? But some

634
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: people were like, I am a communist, fuck you. Yeah,

635
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: And that's kind of how Mally maguiresm is is. It's like,

636
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a Mally McGuire, and some people

637
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: are like, well I am, fuck you yeah, and you're.

638
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 3: Like, well, no matter what, everyone's getting mistreated, and like yeah.

639
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.

640
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 1: So when these people are drafted, a thousand armed people

641
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: blockaded the train that was leading away the draftees. I

642
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: believe this led to them getting the draftees out of

643
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: the train. More troops came in and put that down,

644
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: But in the end, the miners actually this first draft

645
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: the miners win. Lincoln himself was like, oh shit, if

646
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: we stationed more troops in Schoogle County and draft more

647
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: people there, we're gonna have a full on insurrection. So

648
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: they forged aff A David's saying that the volunteers had

649
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: filled the necessary spots. So they still got to be like,

650
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, we got everyone we need from Schoogle County.

651
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: It's cool, and so they drove off the draft. Okay,

652
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: most of the Molly McGuire attention during this wasn't about

653
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: the draft. It was about it stayed class focused, and

654
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: they had no other tool left besides direct action because labor.

655
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: You can't do a labor union during this, right, right,

656
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: So a couple months later, two hundred armed mcguires raided

657
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: a mine and beat their bosses and then the guys

658
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 1: who'd been mistreating them at the mine, then they took

659
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: over the mine and shut it down. Crowds attacked and

660
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: beat several other mine operators in the coming months, basically

661
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: anyone who was like mistreating them. In eighteen sixty three,

662
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: the draft expanse and it becomes federally controlled. This time,

663
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: they suspend habeas corpus due process of law for anyone

664
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: suspected of draft resistance. And now even the Republicans in

665
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: the Union are mad about the draft, right, okay, because

666
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: it's clearly immoral. Yeah, which is so hard in this

667
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: like larger context. Is like overall, I'm like very fucking

668
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: happy that the Union beat the Confederacy, right, like, of course,

669
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: but this new draft law, it lets rich people off

670
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: the hook very even more directly. You could pay three

671
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: hundred dollars, which is more than a year's worth of

672
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: work for a minor, right, or you can go ahead.

673
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 3: So it's just so it's it's shifting to just I mean,

674
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 3: it was directly targeting the poor anyways, but this just seals.

675
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: It, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's formalized now. Yeah, and so

676
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: for the North as well as the South. Like in

677
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: one of the first episodes we did on the show,

678
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: the Civil Civil War, war the Civil War within the

679
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: Civil War and the Confederacy, we talk about how Confederates

680
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: nose plead for listening to you see. We talked about

681
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: how the Confederates were drafting everyone and how this led

682
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: to a civil war within the Confederacy, and how Confederate

683
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: soldiers viewed it as a rich man's fight and a

684
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: poor man's sorry, a rich man's war and a poor

685
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: man's fight. And this is true for the Union too,

686
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: And this doesn't surprise me, but this is the first

687
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: time I've read about it personally, you know.

688
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

689
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: Also, during this whole thing, you're not supposed to draft

690
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: anyone who's not American, right, because that's the whole thing,

691
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: And so you're only supposed to draft American citizens or

692
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: people who have stated their intention to become American citizens,

693
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: like foreigners who are working on becoming American citizens. This

694
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: was completely ignored, and you know, poor migrants were drafted

695
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: left and right.

696
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's you can be an American when it's

697
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 3: convenient to be an American, and when it's not, then

698
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: fuck you you're not.

699
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which has no comparison to anything that happens now.

700
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: No, everything's fixed.

701
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Some people try to like read this kind of

702
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: story to be like, oh, the spirit of the Irish

703
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: or something, right, and I'm like, this is a story.

704
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, it's about some Irish people, but it's

705
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: a story about immigration into the US, right, And so

706
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: like the modern version of this, if you're looking for

707
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: modern people who are fighting in similar ways, it's not

708
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: the fucking Irish anymore, right, it's the people who buy

709
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: stuff from our sponsors. Eho eh No, on that one

710
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: actually felt immral uh so im.

711
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 2: Moral that it that it went back to being kind

712
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 2: of funny.

713
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and once again wondering what podcast I'm on.

714
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: I have. I had a stress dream last night about

715
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: starting researching someone who someone told me was cool, and

716
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: I committed to doing an episode about it, and then

717
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: about halfway through I found out how incredibly uncool the

718
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: man was, and then I was like, I'm stuck doing

719
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: the episode.

720
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: What did we say?

721
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 4: Did we say the magpie after we found out about

722
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 4: that guy that was a bad husband? We read the

723
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 4: end first when it comes to.

724
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: This, So don't worry. You're safe, just like you're safe

725
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: from missing out on the ease deal deals deals deals, Wow, wowow,

726
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: and we're back. So in Scuocle County someone stole all

727
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: the draft records, which is cool. An officer leading search

728
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: for draft dodgers found himself murdered. A lot of this

729
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: was probably German immigrants, not Maguire's, because the German immigrants

730
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: were just as mad about it because they had all

731
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: the same reasons to be mad about it. Census takers

732
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: were driven off by gunfire, and this started becoming like

733
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: really organized resistance. There were meetings held twice a week

734
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: in all the townships about how all the immigrants could

735
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: resist the draft. Any mind owner who turned over their

736
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: list of employees would have their equipment trashed by their workers.

737
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: And three thousand resistors started drilling militarily, and they're led

738
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: by returning soldiers. So this rocks.

739
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

740
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: So like people who've either been in for nine months

741
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: or three years at this point, they show back up

742
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: and they're like, all right, we're going to train you

743
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: all to fight so they can fight against the people

744
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: trying to draft you. They managed to get light artillery.

745
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: This was probably smuggled down from Canada and they were

746
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: called Maguire's and they were called buckshots. That was just

747
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: the other word for them at this point.

748
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 3: So sorry, is this still kind of exclusively Irish organizing

749
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: or is it becoming more of like a multicultural group.

750
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: I am not entirely certain. I believe that the three

751
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: thousand people drilling were Irish, okay, But I know that

752
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the other direct action was happening more broadly,

753
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: and so I actually don't have any particular reason to

754
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: believe one way or the other about there's a lot

755
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: of multi ethnic organizing and there's a lot of intra

756
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: ethnic fighting happening during all of this time, and it's

757
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: kind of hard to piece some of it out. But

758
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: Federal troops show up and enlist them at gunpoint. It

759
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: never comes to a large battle, And the whole time,

760
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: the Federal troops are being like, oh, it's a Confederate

761
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: conspiracy to invade the North, but it absolutely was no

762
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: such thing. They were not loyal to Confederacy. No evidence

763
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: of them ever having anything to do with the Confederacy

764
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: ever came out, No actions were ever taken against the

765
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: Union by the mcguires. It was all resistance to being

766
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: drafted troops stayed in the area for the rest of

767
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: the war. A bunch of mine operators became officers in

768
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: the military. The officer in the area was given permission

769
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: to draft anyone he wanted and arrest anyone who resisted

770
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: the draft. So this means that he can just throw

771
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: anyone he wants in jail with no habeas corpus, and

772
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: he uses it immediately to fight the union movement. Anyone

773
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: he wants arrested is arrested. This doesn't make people like

774
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: the war effort anymore. It's also probably why I know,

775
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 1: I know. It's also probably why the union movement tends

776
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: towards mcguiresm instead of labor organizing at this point, because

777
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: open actions will get you drafted or arrested. One mine

778
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: owner was mistreating everyone, so workers sat down and considered

779
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: considered a strike. He told them that it was during war.

780
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: A strike was treason and they would be treated as treasonous.

781
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: So a bunch of people showed up on Guy Faux

782
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: Night November fifth, nine, eighteen sixty three, which is generally

783
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: an anti Catholic celebration, so it was probably intentional that

784
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: these Catholics show up on that day. They break into

785
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: his house, they kill him and they leave his body

786
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: in the crossroads. One of the mcguires was killed during

787
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 1: this action in crossfire. Okay, two generals wound up stationed

788
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: in the area, and even more troops come in. The

789
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: Catholic Church threatens to excommunicate anyone belonging to a secret society.

790
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 1: The Catholic Church is like, fuck the McGuire's right.

791
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, but it's also I mean whatever, yeah, one

792
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: of the Catholic Church is one to talk, I know,

793
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 3: I know.

794
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing is, they're like, be in our

795
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: secret society's yeah.

796
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got more infrastructure we could do, and we're

797
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 3: doing some bad shit.

798
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: Get out of here, yeah exactly. And so the Catholic

799
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: Church threatens to excommunicate anyone belonging to a secret society. Okay,

800
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 1: But and then the anti McGuire newspapers they're like, oh,

801
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: most people don't support it. It's just a few bad agitators.

802
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: There's just a few evil mcguires in there making all

803
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: the good Irish people act bad. This is not true.

804
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: It is a broad movement made from general discontentment, right,

805
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: and and in the end, like to take a larger

806
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 1: picture of the Irish in the Union during the war,

807
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: three times as many Irish fought for the Union as

808
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 1: for the Confederacy, and this did include a ton of volunteers.

809
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: There was the sixty ninth Irish Brigade, whose green flag

810
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: had the slogan in Irish we will never run from

811
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: the clashing of the blades. And those who volunteered in

812
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: the Union, they also a lot of them had I mean,

813
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: some of it was probably like we like our new country,

814
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: but like overall, I think it was well, they wanted

815
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: to learn how to fight and shoot guns so they

816
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: could go back to Ireland and kick the English out

817
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: of their country.

818
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: It seems reasonable.

819
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I might as well do a like perfectly ethical

820
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: war over here so that you can go back and

821
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: to another perfectly ethical war.

822
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just kind of like a warm up situation.

823
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: I get it. You don't want to go.

824
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 3: It's it's Mario rules. You don't just go for the

825
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: big boss, you know. Yeah, Yeah, it's incremental.

826
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. After the war, things cooled off in Schougle sort of.

827
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: The mcguires killed several more mine superintendents, they settled some

828
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 1: old scores, and the railroad formed a private police force

829
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: basically the railroad at this point starts buying up all

830
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: the mine operators in the southern coalfield. So Reading Railroad

831
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: is now the big new bad, big new bad in

832
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: the area.

833
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 2: Reading Railroad. Wow.

834
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so so close to LeVar burton territory.

835
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: And yet so far because that man will never do

836
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: anything wrong.

837
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 3: Nope, he directed Smart House? What did he possibly do?

838
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 3: That's famous? Credit smart House?

839
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: Wait, I've never heard of smart House.

840
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: Magfie. I feel like you'd enjoy a smart House.

841
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 3: It's a classic Disney Channel original movie that predicts a

842
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 3: lot top.

843
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 4: Three Disney Channel original movie.

844
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 2: And I think it ages pretty well.

845
00:47:54,160 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 3: It's about the kid that wins a like robot house

846
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 3: that's controlled by this AI mom uh, and it's about

847
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 3: it's an AI cautionary tale before Blacknology existed.

848
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: It's It's Black Mirror Junior.

849
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: It's so good and they play a smash Mouth song

850
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 3: say it's a class Oh yeah, okay. LeVar Burton has

851
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 3: never missed his entire life.

852
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 4: So anyways, Reading Railroad, I was saying it and it

853
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 4: starts Katie siicall, so it does I totally know who

854
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 4: is I know?

855
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: I knew LeVar Burton is. He was very important in

856
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: my childhood as I grew up watching Reading Rainbow and

857
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: Star Trek as like the two things.

858
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: Oh he's the best.

859
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like both of those things prepared him

860
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: for his greatest work, Disney Channel's Smart House.

861
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: Obviously. So the Railroad shows up Reading Railroad, Uh, not

862
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: run by LeVar Burton, and they deputize a bunch of

863
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: paid mercenaries, And so you now have private police instead

864
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: of public police, which which is like even worse than

865
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: public police, which is impressive because public police are clearly

866
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: not doing a very good I have negative opinions about

867
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: the establishment. Soon Reading Railroad becomes everyone's landlord and boss

868
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: workers no longer own their own homes, and the Railroad

869
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: brings on Pinkertons as detectives to be part of this

870
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: classic villain of the pod, the Pinkertons.

871
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like there's certain I feel like across podcasting

872
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 3: in general, you're like, the Pinkertons are gonna come up.

873
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 3: JEdgar Hoover's gonna come out. One of these motherfuckers like

874
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 3: just worms their way into every damn story of Yeah.

875
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: Actually, most of what we know about the maguire's is

876
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: a Pinkerton detective.

877
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so useful primary resource.

878
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: I mean, but it's also part of why, like a

879
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: lot of the things that make them look bad. I'm like,

880
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: I don't know how true it is.

881
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: It could be true, but never trust a Pinkerton.

882
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. So there's no longer a draft in occupying soldiers,

883
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: and so workers are less mad overall, and with the

884
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: occupation of their area gone, an actual labor movement is

885
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: able to start up. And so this what stopped the

886
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: kind of agrarian violence mode of class struggle. The mcguireism

887
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: was the labor union, the fact that there were methods

888
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: by which to seek address for your grievances or whatever.

889
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: And because mcguiresm is a backs against the wall clause

890
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: out approach, which is only necessary when your backs against

891
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: the wall, they form the working Men's Benevolent Association, which

892
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: is good because it doesn't have a man's name in

893
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: the title.

894
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 3: That's yeah, it means that it at least stands a

895
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 3: stronger chance of being equitable.

896
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has some problems, but it forms an eighteen

897
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:54,720
Speaker 1: sixty eight United Minor and Laborer English and Irish, Welsh

898
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: and German. It favored strikes and negotiation rather than midnight murder.

899
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: The leaders mostly British or opposed to the McGuire's, or

900
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: rather McGuire Ism. The rank and file had a ton

901
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: of McGuire's. The main founder was actually was actually Irish

902
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 1: born himself, but he was a He was Anglo English,

903
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: not in that his parents were from England, but he

904
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 1: was a guy named John Signey and he had worked

905
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: most of his life in England and spoke English as

906
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: his first or maybe only language. And there's this enormous

907
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: cultural gap between the Irish speaking Irish and the more

908
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: Anglo Irish types. This guy goes on to die on

909
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: from old miner's friend Black Lung, but before he does that,

910
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: they fight for the eight hour workday. They're able to

911
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: unite thirty to sorry thirty thousand of the thirty five

912
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: thousand workers in the region.

913
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, that's incredible.

914
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: And it's particularly noteworthy because the skilled miners were paid

915
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: for what they produced, not by the hour, so for

916
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: them it was throwing in their lot with the unskilled

917
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: laborers kind of like how actually the ups strike that

918
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: like the ups drivers who are full time get paid

919
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,959
Speaker 1: all right, but their part time employees get paid like shit,

920
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: and so the full time employees are willing to go

921
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 1: on strike for their part time employees.

922
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 2: You know, I see, Okay, I do love.

923
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 3: I'd say, I know it's a very tired meme, but

924
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: I just love when leftists get pissed off and invent

925
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 3: the weekend.

926
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's total ailling. Yeah. And they also supported what

927
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: I think is the best thing that labor unions can do,

928
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: which is they supported the idea of forming worker cooperatives.

929
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: And they go around, they start setting up cooperative stores,

930
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: and they start trying to cooperativize different minds. The railroad

931
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: won't let them, but they start doing a lot. So

932
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 1: they're cool in a lot of ways. They have two

933
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: major problems. One, they try hard to cozy up to

934
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: the owners. They're like, we abhor all violence and believe

935
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: that the owners and the workers have mutually aligned interests.

936
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: And the owners are like, yeah, I mean, we'll fuck

937
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: you up, and they use violence all the time and

938
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: do not you know.

939
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice. Try.

940
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: Then the other big problem, and you guess what the

941
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: big problem is of a labor organization in nineteenth century America.

942
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 2: Mm Oh, there's so many no, okay. Yeah. I was like,

943
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: is it racism or is it in fighting or is

944
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: it both?

945
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I guess you know. Okay, So this labor

946
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: union brings together men and only men of different white ethnicities.

947
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 1: There weren't any Chinese families for them to be directly

948
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: racist against. But like all the reformist non revolutionary unions

949
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: in the US at the time, they were explicitly racist

950
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: against Chinese and black workers. It is likely that the

951
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: mcguires weren't any better. But I don't know. I don't

952
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: have any like statements from the mcguires one way or

953
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: the other.

954
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 3: But I'm and so. So they're unionizing in areas where

955
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 3: there are few, to know, non white families, essentially. But

956
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 3: is it just because this is happening during the Civil

957
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 3: War era that we have insight into what their racial

958
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: views are. I mean, it's like, I'm definitely safe to infer,

959
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 3: but I didn't know where that comes in.

960
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: So a lot of labor unions in the late nineteenth

961
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: century in the US specifically complained about Chinese people taking

962
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: the jobs they would go out of their way to do,

963
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,959
Speaker 1: all the exact same thing that was happening to white

964
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: immigrants as soon as they could, they turned around into

965
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: the non white immigrants.

966
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 2: Those fucking girl bosses.

967
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and this is like again part of why.

968
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: And there's some other unions that explicitly did work. Also

969
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: there's black unions, but there's also some unions that were

970
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: explicitly multiracial. But it's why, once again, I keep pointing

971
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: to the industrial workers the world is the people who

972
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: came on the scene, and one of their founders was

973
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 1: a black anarchist woman named Lucy Parsons. And they just

974
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: like came on the scene and immediately like they were

975
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 1: mostly out wet, well actually they were all over the place,

976
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: but out west they like specifically worked with like like

977
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: worked with Japanese folks who were also being by that period,

978
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: Japanese folks were the the immigrant people who are being mistreated, right, Okay,

979
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: So but that's not that's nice. This is this is

980
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 1: five years earlier. Yeah, okay, So this is a.

981
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: Majority, if not I guess all men like white men

982
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 3: who are poor and from a number of Okay, yep,

983
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 3: well not surprising, I yeah, but it sucks, it certainly does. Yeah.

984
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, so the union fights for the workers in

985
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: September eighteen sixty nine, a fire burn down the timbers

986
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: that hold open a mine and one hundred and ten

987
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: Menners asphyxiated, and so the union throws a rally to

988
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: try and be like, hey, we need some fucking safety here.

989
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: Some people in the crowd claim that the Irish started

990
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 1: the fire as like revenge against the Welsh for wanting

991
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: to have ended an earlier strike or whatever the fuck right,

992
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: and this is nonsense. It helped the bosses by getting

993
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: the workers to blame each other. But even the fucking

994
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: governor of Pennsylvania was like, this wasn't caused by bad

995
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: luck or the Irish. This was caused by the fucking

996
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: operators and a lack of safety, okay, And so the

997
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 1: workers fight. They get the Safety Act passed in eighteen seventy.

998
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: But this has actually some positive effects. Still, American minds

999
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: are three times more deadly than British mines at the

1000
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: same time. In just this coal field, between eighteen seventy

1001
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: and eighteen seventy five, five hundred and fifty six workers died.

1002
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: This is after the Mine Safety Act passes. And the

1003
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: other thing that sucks about the Mind Safety Act it's

1004
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 1: always the double edged sword of trying to seek anything

1005
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:07,240
Speaker 1: with reform is it. It created more discipline in the mines,

1006
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: and it actually centralized authority more into reading railroads hands

1007
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 1: I see.

1008
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 2: Okay.

1009
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: But the WBA, the worker in Men's Benevolent Association, they

1010
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: get pay raises, they get a minimum wage plus sliding

1011
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: scale based on the level of production and the value

1012
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: of coal. But all of their nonviolence and ass kissing

1013
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: the bosses didn't save them. They were painted as violent

1014
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: terrorists every time they did anything, and the government and

1015
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: owners started chipping away surely but steadily, against all their gains.

1016
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: By eighteen seventy three, conditions for miners worsen, so some

1017
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: of them wires get up to their old tricks because

1018
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: the union isn't working and they're literally again starving, so

1019
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: they start setting fire at mines. They're overturning coal cars,

1020
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: they're beating up mines supervisors. So the owners turn to

1021
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: the detectives they have on higher the Pinkertons. The Pinkertons

1022
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: refer to the McGuire's as a quote noxious weed of

1023
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: foreign birth. And check out this quote from them. Wherever

1024
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: in the United States iron is wrought from Maine to

1025
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: Georgia ocean to ocean wherever coal is used for fuel. There,

1026
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: the molly McGuire leaves his slimy trail and wields with

1027
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: deadly force his two powerful levers secrecy combination. I have

1028
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: no idea what combination means in this sense.

1029
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 3: This is this is the and these are the drama

1030
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 3: queens we can't stand. Yeah, this is this is drama

1031
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 3: queen tendencies being weaponized for evil. Yeah, exactly, God losers.

1032
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 3: All right, well, I guess that is very Pinkerton behavior.

1033
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, So they send an undercover, an Irish Catholic

1034
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: immigrant named James mcparlan. He joins the Ancient Order of Hiberians,

1035
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: and since he's literate, he finds his way into becoming

1036
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: their secretary. And basically all of the molly McGuire's were

1037
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: in the Ancient Order of Hiberians. Later, there's this whole

1038
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: conspiracy case that trying to claim the Ancient Order of

1039
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: Iberians is the molly McGuire's, but it's almost certain that

1040
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: it's just that all the molly mcguires are in the

1041
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: Ancient Order of Tiberians because elsewhere around the country ancient

1042
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: Order of Iberian people ain't doing any of this shit, okay,

1043
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,439
Speaker 1: and so he becomes their secretary, which, by the way,

1044
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: is how Karl Marx took control the First International. While

1045
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm talking shit, he became their secretary and then started

1046
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: writing everything. Okay. So mcparlin he stayed undercover for two years,

1047
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: then he disappeared, only to reappear later at trial. The

1048
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: other infiltrator from the Pnkersons infiltrated the union, but his

1049
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: reports were like, oh, actually this isn't Molly mcguiresh at all.

1050
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: They're all really tame. The union's actually just doing what

1051
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: it says it is, okay, but that wouldn't work for

1052
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: the union. For the railroad, Sorry, it wouldn't work for

1053
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: the railroad. They wanted to destroy the union, so they

1054
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: just lied, even though they had an infiltrator saying hey,

1055
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: it's actually all peaceful here, and they were like, they're

1056
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: all terrorists and Irish bastards, ye, So they destroyed the union.

1057
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: The long strike lasted from January to June nineteenth, eighteen

1058
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: seventy five. This was during a really nasty recession. The

1059
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: bosses got ready for this. They formed a union of

1060
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: their own, which happens all the fucking time. All the

1061
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: minor operators get together to figure out how to fuck

1062
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: over their workers collectively. And before they told everyone about

1063
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: some wage cuts, they stockpiled enough coal for the long strike.

1064
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: So during the strike, the boss is stoked anti Irish

1065
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: sentiment and got the Welsh to attack the Irish. This

1066
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: had been going on for decades, right, the gang warfare eventually? Okay,

1067
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: so you ever seen like one of the I don't

1068
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: know if gangs in New York has this or not.

1069
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: There's this whole thing in nineteenth century New York City

1070
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: where you have like firefighter gangs who get into fist

1071
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: fights over who puts out a fire.

1072
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 2: No, that sounds like a sexy dream, my mom would have.

1073
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:17,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that sexy dream is alive in Scugle County.

1074
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: Nice, that's all let her know.

1075
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my pitch for a Netflix show. And there's

1076
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: firefighter warfare happening. The Brits have a fire company, I

1077
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: think the Brits and Welsh, they like, live on one

1078
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: side of town and the Irish have a fire company

1079
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: on their own side of town. But when fires in

1080
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,479
Speaker 1: the middle breakout, there's fierce fighting. Often this turns into

1081
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: gun battles and people are probably I don't know from

1082
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: which side, probably both people are setting fires in the middle,

1083
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: just so that they have an excuse to fight.

1084
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 2: Wow.

1085
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, that's crazy.

1086
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 2: Okay.

1087
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: So during the strike, the industry kept saying that union

1088
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: was all Molly McGuire's. The Molly mcguires are a tiny

1089
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: percentage of the union. Irish people are a reasonably high percentage.

1090
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: But again, I mean overall the union is the like

1091
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: not McGuire method. But by the end of the strike,

1092
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: as the strike is clearly not working, various folks start

1093
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 1: dropping out and starting to work right, starting to blackleg

1094
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: and more and more union workers of every ethnicity gave

1095
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: up on strict nonviolence and non sabotage. So loaded coal

1096
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,919
Speaker 1: cars were getting dumped. Mindes started getting burned, gangs beat

1097
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: up black legs. Coffin notices popped up with phrases like quote,

1098
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: notice is here given to you men, the first and

1099
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: last notice that you will get for no man will

1100
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: go down this slope, like go into the mine after tonight.

1101
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: If you do, you can bring your coffin along with you.

1102
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: By the internal christ internal not they mean eternal whatever,

1103
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: but they wrote internal bring your coffin along with you

1104
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: by the internal christ mean what this notice says?

1105
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: I believe them?

1106
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, they meant I believe that. Yeah. In the end,

1107
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: the railroad company won, the union was destroyed. The last

1108
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: holdouts were mostly the Irish speaking Irish from the strongholds

1109
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: of the Molly mcguires, but hundreds of British miners were

1110
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 1: still with them too, and a thousand workers marched from

1111
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: mind to mind trying to shut down work, but heavily

1112
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: armed police stopped them, at one point firing into the crowd.

1113
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: The workers went back to work. Some were so weak

1114
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: from starvation that emergency rations had to be provided by

1115
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: bosses to get them back on their feet, which is

1116
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 1: just an example of how capitalism wants to feed you.

1117
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: It literally just wants to feed you enough so that

1118
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: you can go work in the mines.

1119
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, enough so that you won't I mean yeah, like

1120
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 3: you're saying before, hawking feels too harsh because you were

1121
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 3: effectively selling, yeah, all those amazing products and services.

1122
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 2: Just enough so that you won't die, so you retain

1123
01:03:59,400 --> 01:03:59,959
Speaker 2: labor value.

1124
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1125
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Within two years, wages dropped less than fifty percent.

1126
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: Before eighteen sixty nine, levels okay, workers had strict discipline

1127
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 1: now like they're treated how factory workers were being treated

1128
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: in the city, which is also not how people should

1129
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: be treated. Private police broke up all public demonstrations with violence,

1130
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: so the Maguires were like, all right, fuck it. We

1131
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: tried doing it the nice way. If you want violence,

1132
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 1: we were born into violence by hundreds of years of

1133
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: resisting colonization. Over the course of three months, they killed

1134
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: six people. One Molly wrote a letter to the paper

1135
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: and said, quote, I am against shooting as much as

1136
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: you are, but the union has broke up and we

1137
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: have got nothing to defend ourselves with but our revolvers.

1138
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: If we don't use them, then we shall have to

1139
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 1: work for fifty cents a day, and went on to

1140
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 1: say that the other nationalities would do so but for

1141
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: cowardice and quote I have told you the mind of

1142
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,919
Speaker 1: the children of miss us Molly Maguire. All we want

1143
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: is a fair day's wages for a fair day's work,

1144
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: and that's what we can't get now by a long shot.

1145
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: He closed by saying they would make it quote hot

1146
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: as hell for the employers that they needed to. This

1147
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 1: is the only statement we have from the McGuire's.

1148
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 3: Wow, okay, it's I mean, it's I don't know, I

1149
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 3: know everyone's mileage varies, but six casualties as opposed to

1150
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 3: the number of casualties that you know you stand to

1151
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 3: lose by not advocating for yourself, Like, yeah, I feel

1152
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 3: like those stories are not by you, mac Bibe. But

1153
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 3: it's just like you hear those stories so often, even

1154
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 3: on like podcasts I listened to. Sometimes they're like, well,

1155
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 3: obviously killing.

1156
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 5: Is wrong, yeah, yeah, yeah, but but even then your

1157
01:05:55,320 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 5: your mileage may very yeah, but yeah, like bring, well

1158
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 5: they killed six people.

1159
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 2: It's like, but what did they stand to lose? Yeah, sure,

1160
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 2: like yeah.

1161
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, no totally. And so that's one hundred and fifteen

1162
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: people just or whatever, or one hundred and ten people

1163
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: just aphixiated in a mine, you know.

1164
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 2: And that's nothing to say of, you know, the losses

1165
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 2: they suffered from the draft being stacked against them intentionally

1166
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 2: and just all this other stuff like, yeah, six people,

1167
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 2: all right, Sorry.

1168
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 1: So Pinkerton's fed information to vigilante gangs. That's the other thing, right,

1169
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: It's like we always talk about the violence that happens

1170
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 1: in like one side of this, you know. So Pinkertons

1171
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 1: fed information to vigilante gangs who went off on a

1172
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: moral crusade to stop the mcguires. The private police turned

1173
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: the other way or joined as they showed up and

1174
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: anyone like at these houses of people who suspected being

1175
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: Molly McGuire's and killed their families and grabbed a bunch

1176
01:06:55,240 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: of irishmen. And in the end fifty people were indicted

1177
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: for the murder of sixteen people over thirteen years. So

1178
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: there are sixteen deaths being blamed on the Maguires. Their

1179
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: mind superintendents and foremen, public officials who are all various

1180
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: types of cops and marshals. They didn't just face the

1181
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: structural violence of poverty and discrimination. They faced private police,

1182
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: Welsh gangs, and federal troops. Right, all of the suspected

1183
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: ring leaders were tavern keepers. And this may or may

1184
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: not have been real. We have no idea, and it

1185
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: might have been part of the Protestant anti drinking crusade

1186
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: because that was this whole thing going on at the

1187
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: time and the trials of farce. They were arrested by

1188
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: private cops. The only evidence was a Pinkerton infiltrator who

1189
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: had probably been working as an agent Provoctur. Later that

1190
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: guy went on explicitly to be an agent Provoctur and

1191
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: other labor struggles. No Irish Catholics are allowed to sit

1192
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: on the jury. The prosecutor was a fucking railroad employee.

1193
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,960
Speaker 1: For fuck's sake, it was. It gets called even by

1194
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: the history books that hate the mcguires, like most history

1195
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: books are not on the McGuire's side. Sure, even by them,

1196
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 1: it's called trial by corporation. Yeah, and some of them

1197
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 1: were probably guilty, some of them were probably innocent. Several

1198
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: turned snitch and became star witnesses. But one of them,

1199
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: this one guy, he turned snitch. He was like, I

1200
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 1: didn't kill a guy. It was it was these other guys.

1201
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: They totally killed that guy. So his wife disavows him.

1202
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: Ooh she hell yeah. She testifies in court that he

1203
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 1: is the murderer and that he is turning on innocent men,

1204
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: and she refuses to support him in prison. This is

1205
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: the most real maguire in the whole fucking story, as

1206
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: far as.

1207
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 2: Sir, where's her fucking bio kick that rocks?

1208
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:58,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, he snitched and he got double stitch. Yeah no, yeah,

1209
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,759
Speaker 3: no job in jail, No, wife.

1210
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sad for him.

1211
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 1: He does, he gets set free. The five many testifies

1212
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: against We're not at least one of the snitches gets

1213
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: a thousand bucks from the prosecution to help them leave

1214
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: the country. So they're literally just being paid by the company.

1215
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,839
Speaker 2: And these sound I mean, they sound like show trials,

1216
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 2: Like were they like heavily covered and all that.

1217
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, the mcguires, I didn't talk about it enough. The

1218
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: mcguires are like big news everywhere about this haven of

1219
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: terrorists in Pennsylvania.

1220
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 2: Basically okay, okay.

1221
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: And and it's basically like all labor organizing is given

1222
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 1: a bad name by being compared to mcguires, which is

1223
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 1: very frustrating because I'm just like, well, I don't know whatever,

1224
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure some of what they did was like

1225
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 1: not the best, but overall, I'm like, Molly McGuire's did

1226
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: nothing wrong.

1227
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 2: But like you're like, but consider the context. Yeah, like

1228
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 2: drop in the bucket.

1229
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: We should aspire to be the kind of people who

1230
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: go claws out when people try to destroy us, Like right,

1231
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: I just genuinely believe that.

1232
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's like with I mean, within this story,

1233
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 2: there's you know, examples of how the how the opposite

1234
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 2: approach was was tried.

1235
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 3: And was not. I mean, I guess that in this

1236
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,879
Speaker 3: case both were not extremely effective.

1237
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: But it's you and I keep thinking about it because

1238
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this the story really even more

1239
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: than often. It impacted me and let me thinking about

1240
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: a lot of things because you have these two approaches

1241
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 1: and neither one is working, and it really depends on

1242
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 1: what we call working, because like, ooh, okay, I think

1243
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: that there is something to be said about just living

1244
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: your life in a way where you don't roll over

1245
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: and die. And sometimes like that's all we can ask

1246
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 1: for is to be part of communities who support us

1247
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 1: as we choose to not roll over and die. And

1248
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: like again and again, they would try to not go

1249
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,679
Speaker 1: claws out, they would try to join unions, they would

1250
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 1: try to do things the other way. I believe that

1251
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: man when he said that we don't like killing any

1252
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 1: more than anyone else, but all we have now is

1253
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: our revolvers.

1254
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 3: You know, well, it's it's and it's like if they

1255
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 3: enjoyed killing, they probably would have killed more than six people.

1256
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: Sixteen but yeah, yeah, sixteen, I mean but over the

1257
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: course of eleven years, Yeah.

1258
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly like these.

1259
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 3: It's not the behavior of a movement that relish isn't killing. Yeah,

1260
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 3: so I mean I completely believe that. And wow, Yeah,

1261
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 3: the molly mcguars did nothing wrong. They were doing except

1262
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 3: their their fucking best except, oh, I mean, except their

1263
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 3: opinions on race, which seemed to be almost universally.

1264
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: Rot from what we do, which we don't know much of,

1265
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: but we can infer twenty men were hanged, at least

1266
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: one of whom has been proven posthumously humor whatever after

1267
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: his death was proven innocent.

1268
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 2: Okay.

1269
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: And this was meant to be this like glorious of

1270
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: restoration of law against mob rule, but it wasn't. One

1271
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: judge later said of it, quote, the Molly maguire trials

1272
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: were a surrender of state sovereignty. A private corporation initiated

1273
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 1: the investigation through a private detective agency. A private police

1274
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 1: force arrested the alleged defenders defendants, and private attorneys for

1275
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: the coal companies prosecuted them. The state provided only the

1276
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: courtroom and the gallows, and so they go down in

1277
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,679
Speaker 1: history as evil terrorists of violent ethnic mafia. It wasn't

1278
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: until about fifty years ago that historians started really looking

1279
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: into their history as part of labor history. I wouldn't

1280
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 1: say they're perfect. I wouldn't say midnight retribution is how

1281
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 1: to get things done. But yeah, better to go down

1282
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: with your call.

1283
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:50,759
Speaker 2: So I mean.

1284
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 3: Agree, heard, agree, And it's so interesting, Like I mean,

1285
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 3: you referenced this earlier in the episode of how this

1286
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 3: see this history, and this like labor history still seems

1287
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:09,440
Speaker 3: inherently tied into stereotypes around Irish Americans.

1288
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, Yeah, I feel like that's where so much

1289
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 1: of that comes from, like the but I mean some

1290
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,600
Speaker 1: of those stereotypes that come back even to like the

1291
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:24,640
Speaker 1: way that I've read a lot of history in the

1292
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,679
Speaker 1: past year and a half working on this show, probably

1293
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: more than I had and the rest of my life

1294
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 1: put together right again, And I think a lot about

1295
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: how like the Irish like myth of like oh, like

1296
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 1: there's this sort of English myth of like the Irish

1297
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 1: as like crazy backwards people or whatever, and then there's

1298
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: the sort of inversion of that myth, the like how

1299
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 1: the Irish safe civilization? You know, all of these sorts

1300
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: of things, And the thing that I keep running across

1301
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: is that it's like, well, actually, in a lot of

1302
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: ways the Irish culture was more interesting and chaotic and

1303
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: pagan and all of these things. And that's part of

1304
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 1: why it's cool. And I think that's part of why

1305
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 1: people get really excited about it. I think the other

1306
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: reason people get excited about it is like white people

1307
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 1: really want to cling to some level of oppression so

1308
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:18,639
Speaker 1: that they can feel like.

1309
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the other thing.

1310
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 3: It's like that the resistance to because I know, I

1311
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 3: mean there's like people my own family that are, you know,

1312
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 3: like definitely guilty of this of like they're there's such

1313
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 3: a there's such a tendency to cling to like no,

1314
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 3: this it was this group of people, this specific group

1315
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 3: of people, and not just like a wider claiming of

1316
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 3: like no.

1317
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 2: It's it's labor.

1318
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 3: It's people that have a vested interest in labor movements

1319
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:53,879
Speaker 3: and who are being actively oppressed. But no, one not

1320
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 3: not not spicy enough branding for for some Yeah, and

1321
01:14:58,200 --> 01:14:59,879
Speaker 3: and and thus evil persists.

1322
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 2: And that's the only reason I think, so I'm pretty sure.

1323
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if people don't want evil to persist, this

1324
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 1: isn't an ad transition.

1325
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 3: This is I was like, Magfie, you're already flying pretty

1326
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 3: close to the senter.

1327
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 1: Let's get more ads in here now, now this is

1328
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:18,839
Speaker 1: a this is a move to plugs.

1329
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 3: Okay, wow, okay, well actually again this this I mean,

1330
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 3: obviously you know better than anyone that so much of

1331
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,600
Speaker 3: this hasn't changed, but so many of so much of

1332
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 3: this reminds me of the of meatpacking plants that I

1333
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 3: researched in the history of unionizing and how in similar ways,

1334
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 3: like we were talking about earlier today, how some meat

1335
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 3: packing unions were interracial and they were very inclusive and

1336
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 3: very effective, and then there were others.

1337
01:15:57,560 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 2: That weren't that way.

1338
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 3: And also in not quite this I mean about thirty

1339
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 3: years after the McGuire's, I guess we're active. But yeah,

1340
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:10,640
Speaker 3: there's just like so many parallels and what we were

1341
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 3: talking about today in like current meatpacking unions. If you

1342
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 3: want to learn more about that, you should read my.

1343
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 2: Book Raw Dog, A Naked History of Hot Dogs. And

1344
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:22,799
Speaker 2: you can get it wherever you get books, which.

1345
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 3: Is hopefully an independent bookstore or you know whatever not

1346
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 3: fucked up way you acquire books. You could steal it,

1347
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 3: whatever you want to do. I just if you want

1348
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 3: to read it, I would love that, and you can,

1349
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 3: you know, bug me online.

1350
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm around except for TikTok too Loud.

1351
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait to leave all of those things,

1352
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 1: but I haven't yet what I want to plug. I

1353
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: work with a publisher called Strangers in the Tangled Wilderness,

1354
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: and we're an anarchist collective publisher, and we're putting out

1355
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: an book that's available for pre order right now. It's

1356
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: called to the Ghosts Who Are Still Living. It's by

1357
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 1: Ami Winetrub, and it's it's not actually entirely dissimilar to

1358
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. Well, it's completely disimilar in a

1359
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: lot of other ways. It's about learning about ones like

1360
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 1: Jewish ancestry in Eastern Europe and kind of as an

1361
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 1: anti Zionist trans anarchist talking about what it means to

1362
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 1: be dispossessed from family history and what it means to

1363
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 1: reconnect to it. And it's a really good book. We

1364
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: only put out books that we're really excited about, and

1365
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 1: this is our third book that we're putting out. It's

1366
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 1: called to the Ghosts We're Still Living by Ami Winetrub,

1367
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: and it's available at Tangled Olderness Dot. A work eventually

1368
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:43,600
Speaker 1: be available at any more books are for sale, but

1369
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 1: right now it's pre order and if you pre order it,

1370
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 1: you get an eleven by seventeen colored poster that's silk screened.

1371
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: That's super cool. That's what I got.

1372
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 3: That.

1373
01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 4: Cool Zone Media Okay bye A Cool People Who Did

1374
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 4: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. For

1375
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,960
Speaker 4: more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1376
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,880
Speaker 4: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1377
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:14,800
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.