Speaker 1: Charges. That's created by port Lay and Control Media. It's
Speaker 1: produced by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: This time a former Sons player who you might remember
Speaker 1: as t Rex. More video in just a moment, but
Speaker 1: this is Rex Chapman's mug Shawn, and we are learning
Speaker 1: a lot more about the charge up the Charge And
Speaker 1: if I was in a situation today with somebody trying
Speaker 1: to jump on Matt and I had to use my
Speaker 1: gun again, I'll do it again. You know it was
Speaker 1: either gonna be me or you. And whether that man
Speaker 1: basketball fighting hard foul I was trying to eat were
Speaker 1: scrutinizes on TV. We was talking about TV. We was
Speaker 1: shown been arrested on TV and taking the gail TV
Speaker 1: not the fan we were, Stevie, I got a feeling.
Speaker 1: I know what the tears are about, but what are
Speaker 1: they about? Welcome to Charges with me, Rex Chapman. I'm
Speaker 1: very excited to announce that not only will this be
Speaker 1: our first episode with two guests at one time, it
Speaker 1: will also be our first two part episode series. That's
Speaker 1: how engrossing and important my conversation was with my guests
Speaker 1: Steven Jackson and Matt Barnes. There are men who are
Speaker 1: both NBA champions and award winning podcast professionals with their
Speaker 1: show All the Smoke from Showtime, Basketball, Black Effect, and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Before becoming a pillar in sports media
Speaker 1: or podcasting, a former athlete needs to check a lot
Speaker 1: of boxes during and after their career. They must be opinionated, outspoken,
Speaker 1: charismatic while having a pinch of calculated and controlled crazy.
Speaker 1: This is Charges. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman.
Speaker 1: In my day, there really wasn't an outlet for athletes
Speaker 1: who felt they were misunderstood, or had different opinions, or
Speaker 1: even just didn't want to talk through a filter. Everything
Speaker 1: had to be done through a mouthpiece. Off In that
Speaker 1: mouthpiece was a journalist, writer, television personality team or PR rep.
Speaker 1: Someone that was not you yourself. They didn't know your life,
Speaker 1: your experiences, and yet they were tasked with trying to
Speaker 1: take you and your life and turn it into a story. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: in many ways, it's not like that anymore. The way
Speaker 1: we learn about athletes has changed. The filter can come off,
Speaker 1: the fans can get a more intimate experience, and the
Speaker 1: athletes they can be themselves. My guest today, well, they
Speaker 1: made a career out of being themselves on and off
Speaker 1: the court. They're both NBA champions. They're both known as
Speaker 1: great teammates, hard workers, and guys who weren't afraid of
Speaker 1: grinding in their careers. They also have helped pioneer the
Speaker 1: format of athletes talking to athletes in an unscripted and
Speaker 1: authentic way with their podcast All the Smoke. It's my
Speaker 1: pleasure to welcome Stephen Jackson and Matt Barnes to Charges.
Speaker 1: How are you, gentlemen, Welcome to my home court. Charge
Speaker 1: it up? Oh g, I'm glad to be here. You
Speaker 1: know you raised me, so it's only right I'll be here.
Speaker 1: That That was a great opening monologue. Man, that was serious. Right,
Speaker 1: that's probably my best introduction ever. I appreciate that. There
Speaker 1: we go, There we go. It's it's all up here.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about some of the ship, but yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: talking about the good stuff too. You know, Uh, where
Speaker 1: did you both grow up? And did you know that
Speaker 1: basketball was gonna take you places professionally? Matt, let's start
Speaker 1: with you. I grew up moved around a little bit,
Speaker 1: uh you know, Dad, so drugs. We bounced around a
Speaker 1: little bit from the Bay Area, to Sacramento. Um, I
Speaker 1: was actually a football player first. You know, I grew
Speaker 1: up playing football watching my dad played football. He used
Speaker 1: to play tagle football on the street. And as I
Speaker 1: got taller, I started kind of picking up basketball. So
Speaker 1: I didn't really take basketball serious until maybe the end
Speaker 1: of junior high. I mean I was always playing in leagues,
Speaker 1: but just you know, football was always my heart, my passion.
Speaker 1: Um in high school was an All American and in
Speaker 1: football and basketball, and just felt like there was gonna
Speaker 1: be some more longevity in basketball. Um, although my career
Speaker 1: to get started was a grind in a roller coaster
Speaker 1: ship actually, my whole career was was a grind in
Speaker 1: a roller coaster. But you know, once I after that
Speaker 1: two thousand six, uh seven, we believe team I kind
Speaker 1: of became a household name. But um, you know, basketball
Speaker 1: up until college was kind of it was really you know,
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? Football or basketball? So
Speaker 1: again chose basketball, had a fifteen year career and uh man,
Speaker 1: they've been able to pivot out of that into media.
Speaker 1: So it's been a fun grind amazing how how uh
Speaker 1: what position in football? I was a receiver, So yeah, receiver.
Speaker 1: I led the nation in touchdowns my senior year, you know,
Speaker 1: I had like fifty three catches for twelve yards and
Speaker 1: twenty eight touchdowns, so like every other catch with a touchdown.
Speaker 1: So literally football was my first sport, but and was
Speaker 1: recruited by everyone for football too. But like I said,
Speaker 1: looking at the longev at the time, you know, coming
Speaker 1: out of high school, there wasn't any six eight receiver,
Speaker 1: so I didn't really have anything to model myself after.
Speaker 1: I kind of understand if there's gonna be some longevi
Speaker 1: in this space. Although Harold Carmichael, you know, back in
Speaker 1: the eighties with the Philadelphia Eagles. But outside of that,
Speaker 1: there wasn't really guys my size doing what I did,
Speaker 1: So I took the other route withhe there's plenty of
Speaker 1: guys my side is doing it and made a career
Speaker 1: out of it. Jack What about you, jack O? G
Speaker 1: It started for me. I was born and raised in
Speaker 1: Houston and Third War Area arrest of police George Ford. Um,
Speaker 1: but I was raised and put out the Texas about
Speaker 1: an hour and a half away, but mom moved to
Speaker 1: put off the one. I was like four or five
Speaker 1: years old, and um, you know the saying you just
Speaker 1: slang rock. I have a wicked jump shot. UM. I
Speaker 1: grew up in that type of area and UM, I
Speaker 1: didn't know I was chalented until that I had a chance,
Speaker 1: which I was like eight nine, and I played in
Speaker 1: the game at the y m c A and we
Speaker 1: had the final score was forty four to forty two.
Speaker 1: I had forty two our points. Everybody around me knew,
Speaker 1: you know, but this kid has something. And and doing
Speaker 1: my career, you know, doing growing up and put out
Speaker 1: the Texas. I did so many things that could have
Speaker 1: ruined my life, that could have stopped me from making
Speaker 1: it this far. But my city put out the Texas.
Speaker 1: The people in my city took care of me because
Speaker 1: they saw something in me that I didn't as a youngster.
Speaker 1: So I give a lot of problems to my city
Speaker 1: for protecting me and shield to meet from from all
Speaker 1: the trouble and drama that was going on in my city.
Speaker 1: And my family put me in positions to you know,
Speaker 1: go to o Kill. I want to stay championship and
Speaker 1: put out the Texas in my high school and I
Speaker 1: went to oak Kill. UM ended up signing with the
Speaker 1: University of Arizona and not getting in in school because
Speaker 1: I didn't pass my test because I didn't take school serious.
Speaker 1: And they end up winning the national championship my freshman year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I end up missing not on national championship Arizona.
Speaker 1: But the best that it was a blessing. Guard always
Speaker 1: had his um hands over man, always had me covered
Speaker 1: during that year, Mike. Maybe mom didn't want me to
Speaker 1: go back to Port Author because she knew the trouble
Speaker 1: and the and the game banging, all the stuff that
Speaker 1: I was into as a kid, and she told me
Speaker 1: to stay with her. Well, I did not know she
Speaker 1: had a relationship with the Son's organization, and as you know,
Speaker 1: she woke me up one morning and brought me down
Speaker 1: there to play pick up with you guys, which I
Speaker 1: had no idea where I was going. And I ended
Speaker 1: up playing well and I ended up getting drafted with
Speaker 1: the only pick that the Sun has had that year,
Speaker 1: and you were there, so and that's when my career started.
Speaker 1: But I had no idea or no clue that I'll
Speaker 1: make it to the NBA. But when I got the opportunity,
Speaker 1: shout out, Danny Age. When I got the opportunity, I
Speaker 1: never back. Man. I remember like it was yesterday. You
Speaker 1: came down and we had a squad. I mean, this
Speaker 1: was Steve's rookie year, nash rookie year, Jason Kidd kJ
Speaker 1: and what stood out You were the first guy you
Speaker 1: It was and one kind of era, but you were
Speaker 1: the first NBA player. I remember you came in and
Speaker 1: you had this move where it was kind of like
Speaker 1: a crossover but it would hit hit the floor and
Speaker 1: then hit your shin and then hop back up into
Speaker 1: the same hand. And man, we all were dying like
Speaker 1: you made several people fall down, and it was just
Speaker 1: something we had never seen before. But also you were
Speaker 1: wildly athletic. Uh, you could tell that you were gonna
Speaker 1: be a pro, but you just you were so young,
Speaker 1: Steve so young, I had to bounce around. I had
Speaker 1: to bounce around. Uh. They drafted me and guaranteed me
Speaker 1: twift was a blessing because it changed my life and
Speaker 1: I ended up breaking both of my feet. They sent
Speaker 1: me to the c b A and I when they
Speaker 1: sent me to Australia and I broke both of my
Speaker 1: feet and bounced around a couple of years. But I
Speaker 1: think the Suns and I think you all because just
Speaker 1: opening that door for somebody people don't know if you
Speaker 1: just open the door for somebody sometimes that's all they need.
Speaker 1: And the Danny Angel and the Sons, you guys did
Speaker 1: that for men. I'm forever appreciative. Yeah, well, you can't
Speaker 1: just fake six eight and skilled. That's what That's what
Speaker 1: you guys are. That's what you guys are. You're both
Speaker 1: champs NBA Champs, which is amazing, especially since you were
Speaker 1: both second round picks. Well traveled. Uh do you guys
Speaker 1: talk about that amongst yourselves. Not much, We don't talk
Speaker 1: about it. I think, Uh, for the most part, I
Speaker 1: think that's what makes us inseparable. That's what makes the
Speaker 1: respect that we have each other because we both know
Speaker 1: we've been through the grind. You know, we don't need
Speaker 1: applause from the outside audience for us to know what
Speaker 1: we went through to get to where we at. You know,
Speaker 1: we know, we know the ground we've been through, and
Speaker 1: its respected between brothers. You know, I've been with Matthews
Speaker 1: some tough times in his life. He's been around me
Speaker 1: through some tough times in my life. So knowing that
Speaker 1: we both went through the grind, knowing that nothing was given,
Speaker 1: we earned everything. I think that conversation that we don't
Speaker 1: need to have because there's respect for each other is
Speaker 1: already there. Yeah, you know, we don't really sit again
Speaker 1: to kind of piggyback up what he said and kind
Speaker 1: of go down memory lane. Like I said, we knew
Speaker 1: it was a grind, but you know, we've transitioned into
Speaker 1: this space and still kind of being underdogs, but really
Speaker 1: creating our own way, similar to what we did in
Speaker 1: the NBA. You know, neither of us knew we would
Speaker 1: be in this media space and and having the success
Speaker 1: we had. You know, we were both respectively working for
Speaker 1: ESPN and Fox at the time, and you know, just
Speaker 1: getting a lot of really good feedback, and you know,
Speaker 1: someone said, no, you guys need to do something together.
Speaker 1: And we were like, okay, what is that? And you know,
Speaker 1: I hit Jack, I'm like, let's let's do a podcast,
Speaker 1: and he's like, what's the podcast. I'm like, shoot, I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I'm gonna figure it out. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then uh, one of our guys, E who was the
Speaker 1: producer on All the Smoke, he actually filmed um he
Speaker 1: did a DeMarcus Cousins documentary and I spoke on it.
Speaker 1: And after we were just kind of chopping it up,
Speaker 1: and that's what I was doing. And you know, we
Speaker 1: talked about the possible podcasts, like you need to talk
Speaker 1: to Showtime. They have a Showtime Basketball they're about to launch.
Speaker 1: You guys would be perfect. So know, I kind of
Speaker 1: took that ran with it, kind of just dry pitched
Speaker 1: Brian Daily kind of with my vision and who my
Speaker 1: partner was at the time. They didn't understand like where
Speaker 1: Jack would fit, like it's just you. I'm just like, no,
Speaker 1: it's me and Jack. Like so Jack comes on sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, Jack is my co host to this show,
Speaker 1: and this is how it's gonna work. And if it
Speaker 1: Jack's not my co host, I can't do it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So they learned Jack quick fell
Speaker 1: in love with them quick and understood what I saw
Speaker 1: on him. And you know, now, you know a little
Speaker 1: bit over a year year in the Space Man, we
Speaker 1: we've come in and in one Sports Podcast of the
Speaker 1: Year from My Heart last year and nominated for a
Speaker 1: bunch of different awards this year. So, you know, definitely
Speaker 1: humbled by the experience, but just kind of excited because,
Speaker 1: like you said in your opening, it's always been other
Speaker 1: people telling our stories, and now we have the ability
Speaker 1: to tell our own stories and uh, you know, have
Speaker 1: the ability for other players to feel comfortable enough to
Speaker 1: let them walls down because you know, Rex will tell
Speaker 1: you ship we would never tell a reporter and vice versa.
Speaker 1: And that's the kind of comfort ability we want to
Speaker 1: be able to bring to our guests because we feel
Speaker 1: like that's when you get the real of stories. So
Speaker 1: I know that wasn't really the question, and the question
Speaker 1: was that we talked about champ and chips, but I
Speaker 1: kind of just took you on the process of you know,
Speaker 1: we understand that was the first chapter of our life
Speaker 1: and now we're looking forward to moving forward in new
Speaker 1: businesses and new spaces. We have new deals coming to
Speaker 1: us every day, man. So we've definitely been blessed to
Speaker 1: be able to play basketball for a living, which is crazy,
Speaker 1: make good money, and now being this media space and
Speaker 1: be able to talk ship half fun and make good
Speaker 1: money as well. Man. I'm happy for you guys, of course,
Speaker 1: but I'm proud because you know, for your retiring is scary.
Speaker 1: It just is just something you've done since you were
Speaker 1: five years old and been serious about it. If you
Speaker 1: played an NBA uh, for ten fifteen years. You've been
Speaker 1: serious about this from before you even thought you were
Speaker 1: being serious about it. So I'm just proud that you
Speaker 1: guys are showing these younger guys that, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: do right, try to do right, get out, and they're
Speaker 1: still earning potential for you after you're done. Matt Barnes
Speaker 1: and Stephen Jackson both played fourteen seasons in the NBA
Speaker 1: on eight and nine teams were effectively you don't last
Speaker 1: that long on that many teams unless you have skill, passion,
Speaker 1: and undeniable leadership traits. Stephen won his NBA championship in
Speaker 1: two thousand three with the San Antonio Spurs, while Matt
Speaker 1: won his title in with the Golden State Warriors. Both
Speaker 1: were key cogs in the rotation. This dynamic duo captain
Speaker 1: that we believe Golden State Warriors. In the O six
Speaker 1: O seven season, in true underdog fashion, that team became
Speaker 1: the third eight seed to beat a one seed in
Speaker 1: a seven game series. Watching them then and hearing them now,
Speaker 1: you knew that they were destined to lead on and
Speaker 1: off the court. Matt, your your career fascinating me because
Speaker 1: you played everywhere but every fucking team you were on,
Speaker 1: you started on, you wouldn't need to be in the
Speaker 1: league for a second, and all of a sudden they
Speaker 1: had start. You go to someplace and and you're a starter.
Speaker 1: At what point in your NBA career did you feel
Speaker 1: like you had some minted your place in the league? UM,
Speaker 1: I would probably say, I mean the journey, you know,
Speaker 1: being drafted, cut, going to the d League for a year,
Speaker 1: then being played for the Clippers. I came into the
Speaker 1: Clippers situation body my way for ten days and making
Speaker 1: that and I think where I made a mistake, although
Speaker 1: it wasn't a mistake at the time because I was
Speaker 1: so young, was you know, being from Sacramento. That's back
Speaker 1: in the early two thousands when ce Webb and Bibbie.
Speaker 1: At first it was Jason Williams. They had those really
Speaker 1: good Sacramento teams. So I'm going to school a U c.
Speaker 1: L A, like the only one on campus, like all
Speaker 1: the Lakers, my favorite team. I'm rooting for Webb and
Speaker 1: the Kings, you know what I mean. So at that time,
Speaker 1: I'm working out with him every summer, hanging out with
Speaker 1: them and being mentored by him. So instead of resigning
Speaker 1: a two year deal, after my first year with the Clippers,
Speaker 1: I jumped to Sacramento. Come just like Ship, this is
Speaker 1: a good team, my hometown. This team had a chance
Speaker 1: to win a championship. I'm gonna go here. And then
Speaker 1: you know, Web gets traded to Philly, and so begins
Speaker 1: kind of my marathon where I don't play for two
Speaker 1: years there and then finally get a chance in Golden States.
Speaker 1: So I think I kind of got my foot in
Speaker 1: the door in Golden State, but the evil Golden State,
Speaker 1: my dumbass turned down to after Nellie gave me an opportunity.
Speaker 1: I turned down a three year, twelve million dollar offered
Speaker 1: because I came off the playoffs where I'm hearing Kenny
Speaker 1: and Charles, this guy is gonna get you know, twenty
Speaker 1: to thirty million, and I'm hearing all these numbers from
Speaker 1: these experts. I'm like, shot, I'm about to get paid.
Speaker 1: What So when that ego, that's that ego talking to
Speaker 1: you know, especially because you know, bouncing around and not
Speaker 1: even really sure if I'm gonna be playing, then you
Speaker 1: hear twenty thirty million dollars on me, Ship, and then
Speaker 1: Golden State offered me twelve I'm like, nah, So I
Speaker 1: took a one year deal with Golden State for four million,
Speaker 1: which piste off Nellie. Then the next year my mom
Speaker 1: dies and then Nellie stops working with me, So the
Speaker 1: journey began. You know. So I kind of felt like
Speaker 1: I got myself in the door in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: but it was still a few years of one year
Speaker 1: auditions after that until I really got my first multi
Speaker 1: year deal with a little bit of money to it.
Speaker 1: What about you, Jack, I think for me, um, it
Speaker 1: was when I got to San Antonio and I was
Speaker 1: able to start on the championship team. Uh, coming under
Speaker 1: san Antonio. I had made the rookie team in New
Speaker 1: Jersey the year before, but coming back after the rookie game,
Speaker 1: I was leading our rookies and scoring. Byron Scott just
Speaker 1: stopped playing, me stopped starting, So I didn't play the
Speaker 1: rest of the years. So my confidence was down. But
Speaker 1: during that season, I remember I wanted to when we
Speaker 1: played San Antonio in Jersey, Mike Brown snuck over there
Speaker 1: when I was in my street clubs because Byron went playing,
Speaker 1: was like keep you head, we come and get you.
Speaker 1: And you know, I heard that before, but I didn't
Speaker 1: know how serious it was uh that summer. Uh, they
Speaker 1: brought me the summer League. I ended up playing, uh
Speaker 1: get signing with San Antonio. First year I was on
Speaker 1: the ange list, but the second year I played, and
Speaker 1: I played like seventeen games off the bench. We were
Speaker 1: in Seattle and uh getting rid of to play Seattle
Speaker 1: and Tim Duncan, I mean, Pop calls my room telling
Speaker 1: me to come upstairs. That's that principal office call. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're gonna cut me somebody from I'm gonna get cut
Speaker 1: over it. So when I get up there, it's Tim
Speaker 1: Duncan is sitting in the room and Pop is like,
Speaker 1: you avage an eighteen you're having in fifteen sixty and
Speaker 1: something like that. Off the bench. We're gonna start you.
Speaker 1: And that was my moment that I knew, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: here to stay now. Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Gregg Popovich,
Speaker 1: this legacy. I'm a part of this legacy. I have
Speaker 1: a chance to win a championship and I'm a starter.
Speaker 1: H O G. That's exactly when I knew I was
Speaker 1: here to stay, and my life change ever since I
Speaker 1: started on that championship team with the Spurs. Isn't that amazing. Though.
Speaker 1: I have a couple of moments like that in my
Speaker 1: career where I look back and and this person or
Speaker 1: that person who I really respected, and I'm glad you
Speaker 1: said that because you had gone and done your thing
Speaker 1: in Jersey. You're playing for Byron right, Byron Scott at
Speaker 1: the time. But when you went I was skeptical when
Speaker 1: you went to the Spurs because that's Pop and Pop
Speaker 1: has a certain way. But when you showed that you
Speaker 1: could do that and you could play how Pop wanted
Speaker 1: you to treat the game, integrity, character, knowing time and
Speaker 1: score all that stuff. Once I saw you could do that,
Speaker 1: I knew you were on your way. I mean, you
Speaker 1: were gonna be undenied. With Rex. It was tough, though.
Speaker 1: It was tough because you know, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean where I come from. He was like, I
Speaker 1: make woman's think he'll pull me out the game. And
Speaker 1: at times I didn't know how to have other that.
Speaker 1: But I had Steve Kerr, I had Steve Smith, I
Speaker 1: had Kevin Willis, I had I had those guys that
Speaker 1: had my back. Then when I come out the game
Speaker 1: blowing up, if I hadn't had those vetchrooms, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have made it, and I'd be the first to say it,
Speaker 1: because they had experience. They taught me how to be
Speaker 1: a man. They taught me how to be a professional,
Speaker 1: and I needed that at the time, and that's the
Speaker 1: only reason I made it in sand Sex. I think
Speaker 1: that's one thing, not to cut you off, that is
Speaker 1: missing from today's game because the game is so young.
Speaker 1: You know, you look at last year where Steph Curry
Speaker 1: is the oldest player on the Warriors and he's only
Speaker 1: thirty two. You know, when you came in the game,
Speaker 1: when Jack and I came in the game, and Jack
Speaker 1: gave you a perfect example. You need those veterans, even
Speaker 1: if they're not getting consistent minutes. Even if they're not
Speaker 1: this they served their purpose and you know, possibly save
Speaker 1: Jack's career. I know I've had vets in my ear
Speaker 1: like I just mentioned see Web earlier that kind of
Speaker 1: talked me off the the edge of times. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what the game is missing, because you know,
Speaker 1: now the game, the kids are making more money than
Speaker 1: ever and they have no real guidance. They're not listening
Speaker 1: to know when that's off the court because they don't
Speaker 1: know what the fuss is like on the court, So
Speaker 1: you need those vets in the locker room that can
Speaker 1: get through to some of these younger players and help
Speaker 1: them in this trans asition, Like you know, you're going
Speaker 1: from a boy to a man in a man's game
Speaker 1: on and off the court, in life, with money and
Speaker 1: with the game. So I really think, you know, the
Speaker 1: game is missing that veteran leadership. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say, probably Udonis Haslem and if he retires
Speaker 1: this year, you know, he's kind of like the last
Speaker 1: real O g U in the game now because now
Speaker 1: the game is so young, and I really feel like
Speaker 1: you're missing that veteran leadership, even if it doesn't always
Speaker 1: show up on the court with their production, it definitely
Speaker 1: shows up in the locker room and helping these young
Speaker 1: players in this tough league. You know, it makes me
Speaker 1: feel good to hear you say that, you know, see
Speaker 1: Webb talking you down, because I remember the See Webb.
Speaker 1: He was a rookie, he was my little guy, and
Speaker 1: who I talk to see Webb down. You know for years,
Speaker 1: this first couple of years he in Juwan straight out
Speaker 1: of you know, Michigan. So I get that for both
Speaker 1: of you, which teammate or coach. Did you learn the
Speaker 1: most uh from as you transition from a young player? Uh?
Speaker 1: In this season, VET for me the player that meant
Speaker 1: that most mean with Steffon mar Be my first year,
Speaker 1: I remember I've never been out of Texas and I've
Speaker 1: never been on the East Coast like that, and I
Speaker 1: showed up with you know, in Texas we wear a
Speaker 1: lot of heavy starts in our clothes, um, and we
Speaker 1: can take our jeans off and then stand up by themselves. Right.
Speaker 1: So I got off the plane with my starts down
Speaker 1: gees and everybody looking at me like I'm I got
Speaker 1: just got off for UFO and everybody just laughing at me,
Speaker 1: pointing at me. As soon as I got that, step
Speaker 1: was like, uh, we can. I ain't even let them
Speaker 1: do this to you. So look it's not It's not
Speaker 1: too many rookies can say this. Man. Steph took me
Speaker 1: shopping spunk by fifteen thousand, gave me a range Rover,
Speaker 1: then later on gave me an escalade, and his family
Speaker 1: just took me in as family, and I learned how
Speaker 1: to be a professional. And just think I come into
Speaker 1: the league, you make the All Star Game, you lead
Speaker 1: our rookies and scoring. Then you just don't play the
Speaker 1: rest of the second half of season. That's devastating to
Speaker 1: a kid who worked his way to get up there.
Speaker 1: So I was crushed. I was crushed, But having him
Speaker 1: having my back, having Kenyan Martin, there's a rookie bo us.
Speaker 1: Being from Texas, I think Steph really guided me and
Speaker 1: shelter me and didn't let the organization treat me like rap.
Speaker 1: But coach wise, I would have to say nobody believed
Speaker 1: to me more than don Nelson. Don Nelson allowed me
Speaker 1: to be a captain on the team. Don Nelson gave
Speaker 1: me the best compliment that any coach could ever give me.
Speaker 1: That acts don Nelson, what is he like about Stephen
Speaker 1: Jackson and how would he want his team to be?
Speaker 1: He said, if I could have a team full of
Speaker 1: Stephen Jackson's I'll be fine. He's one of the winners
Speaker 1: coaches ever. So for him to give me that compliment,
Speaker 1: for him to allow me to be a captain after
Speaker 1: everything I've been through in my career and believe in me, uh,
Speaker 1: don Nelson is my guy for sure. Um, I would say,
Speaker 1: see Webb, you know I briefly mentioned him earlier but
Speaker 1: he was someone even in the summertime when I was
Speaker 1: in college, I you know, come back and pick up
Speaker 1: with him. He to invite me to his house, just
Speaker 1: kind of big brother and me. Uh fast forward to
Speaker 1: us playing together. He gets traded to Philly. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: throw in and you know this is you know, he
Speaker 1: felt like his window with shut and they threw him
Speaker 1: to Philly to die. So you know, we really and
Speaker 1: we discussed this, uh you know, when we had him
Speaker 1: on the podcast. We really leaned on each other during
Speaker 1: that time. I'm young, I'm twenty three, you know, looking
Speaker 1: up to Webb and seeing how he moves not only
Speaker 1: on the court off the court with business and and
Speaker 1: keeping your mind right and keeping the media out of
Speaker 1: your business and and doing all kinds of things. So
Speaker 1: he really kind of taught me how to be not
Speaker 1: only uh you know, think as a basketball player and
Speaker 1: overcome ship, but really kind of taught me how to
Speaker 1: move off the court as well. How you're supposed to
Speaker 1: carry yourself, you know, watch the potholes to avoid you know,
Speaker 1: get have some business, Ackerman, and understand that this is
Speaker 1: a marathon, this is a journey. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: similar to Jack where I'm you know, I'm I played
Speaker 1: with the Clippers, I play with Sacramento, I go to
Speaker 1: Philly and don't play at all. You know. So this
Speaker 1: is with obviously Ai, a young andre Iguadala, a young
Speaker 1: Kyle Korver rookie, and Lou Williams young Sam Dalla Bear.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like, damn, I should definitely somehow be
Speaker 1: in here getting some rotation minutes. But you know, mo
Speaker 1: Chiese just wasn't working with me. So you know, it
Speaker 1: was really tough for me to just kind of keep
Speaker 1: my head there mentally. Um so much to the pact
Speaker 1: that I started working out for football because again I was,
Speaker 1: you know, a football player, and my agents like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a handful of NFL teams that if
Speaker 1: you feel you're ready to step the basketball, that are
Speaker 1: waiting to give you an NFL trial. So web was
Speaker 1: so was just like, you know, kind of supportive, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, like, man, you know, you got
Speaker 1: what it takes to play in this league. You know,
Speaker 1: just stick with it, keep working and you're gonna get
Speaker 1: your shot. And when you get your shot, be ready.
Speaker 1: Um So where was my o g Vett? I owe
Speaker 1: a lot to him, you know, my big brother. And
Speaker 1: then again same same thing as jack Um, the coach
Speaker 1: that really gave me my first chance and really believed
Speaker 1: in me. Although I played with the Clippers, I played
Speaker 1: with Sacramento, you know, coming two years out of Philly
Speaker 1: there with the phone wasn't ringing. I'm sitting up in Sacramento, like, Dan,
Speaker 1: what's my next move? I get a call from Baron Davis.
Speaker 1: You know, yea, we gotta pick up game in the Bay.
Speaker 1: So that's only about an hour and a half drive out,
Speaker 1: hopping my car, go down there and play, play really well,
Speaker 1: not knowing the whole time. Don Nelson is watching. So
Speaker 1: he comes down after and puts his r A, son,
Speaker 1: you know, where are you going? You look really good today.
Speaker 1: What are you doing? I'm just like ship coach. I
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, I don't really know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: I don't have no teams right now. And he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we got sixteen guarantees and we're inviting three
Speaker 1: guys to camp, but you could be our twentieth guy.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I can't promise you nothing, but if
Speaker 1: you go out there and play like you play today,
Speaker 1: I promise I'll give you a chance, and I'm like, shit, Okay,
Speaker 1: the coaches says, give me a chance, that's all I need.
Speaker 1: So I end up playing my way through the three guys.
Speaker 1: They invited two of the guys on contracts they cut
Speaker 1: and ended up playing so well that they felt like
Speaker 1: they can trade Dune, leaving Troy Murphy. And that's how
Speaker 1: we ended up getting Jack to Golden State. Jack and
Speaker 1: Al came to Golden State because of the way I
Speaker 1: was playing, they felt like, okay, we need to add more. Um,
Speaker 1: let's go get these guys and we can. You know,
Speaker 1: even though we gave these young guys and Murphy and
Speaker 1: then me some money, Matt's playing well enough and playing
Speaker 1: their positions where we can go out and get something else.
Speaker 1: And that's when we went and traded for Jack. So
Speaker 1: Nelly was definitely my guy. But then again, like I said,
Speaker 1: I pissed him off from not taking that three year deal.
Speaker 1: So the next year he kind of sucked me. So
Speaker 1: he was my best and then kind of my worst,
Speaker 1: you know, all with the all with all within a
Speaker 1: two year span. He said, you were ungrateful something for real. Now.
Speaker 1: He then he told me, here you want to take
Speaker 1: this money. One day he told me, he pulled, he
Speaker 1: pulled me to the side. He's like, he told me,
Speaker 1: and I'm telling you, so, I lost my mom at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this next season, so I didn't sign
Speaker 1: a contract. I signed a I think a one year,
Speaker 1: four and a half million dollar contract, so I'm going
Speaker 1: through it. I lose my mom at the end of November.
Speaker 1: You know, the season starts, remember one, and then no,
Speaker 1: remember my mom died. So I'm already fucked up. So
Speaker 1: once it kind of start feeling a little bit better
Speaker 1: mid January and the January early February, motherfucker Delli pulls
Speaker 1: me outside after practice like you know something. He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you didn't sign that long term deal. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, what's this. He's like, cause your time
Speaker 1: here is up. I'm like, damn, what the funk? What
Speaker 1: the fund is going on? And the motherfucker's stepped to
Speaker 1: his word. Bro, I didn't play the rest of the
Speaker 1: rest of the season. So again he was the one
Speaker 1: that gave me a chance. And then he also snatched
Speaker 1: that motherfucker from me too. Are y'all cool? Now? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I have it's the business. And like I said, Rex,
Speaker 1: at the time, I'm thinking, like, yo, why is he
Speaker 1: tripping on me? But then I'm also thinking now that
Speaker 1: I'm older and think back like this man gave me
Speaker 1: a real opportunity to play in this league and then
Speaker 1: offered me my first real money and I said no
Speaker 1: to it. So he's probably thinking, like jack just said,
Speaker 1: the audacity This motherfucker right here. You know what I means.
Speaker 1: So it's water of the bridge. You know. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I always be uh have love for Nellie. But like
Speaker 1: I said, it didn't really end the way I wanted
Speaker 1: it too. But you know, to this day, we're still cool.
Speaker 1: Ripping the reins back, got block white park up, little
Speaker 1: foul any blocker from the hard Shopsy Poker your first
Speaker 1: sun again on the middle blocks very hot as his parts.
Speaker 1: O Stea. Jackson just Lawn's top second topical of the
Speaker 1: game and he's gone eight seconds to play Barns down
Speaker 1: the lane. Check it by the hands, black parks. Don't
Speaker 1: like that? How far I send you to the locker
Speaker 1: room looking for the whole Security is back there, all right, Well, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna change gears for a second. On charges. You know,
Speaker 1: we focused on the best times, obviously, but while also
Speaker 1: reflecting on the most you know, rough patches that made
Speaker 1: us who we are today. You've both had your share
Speaker 1: of run ins with the law. Uh. You both were
Speaker 1: at at times in trouble with and while in the NBA,
Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, you've been known for
Speaker 1: being tough guys who aren't afraid to get after it.
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that perception? You know, Stevie, let's
Speaker 1: start with you. Yeah, I just didn't like the gangster
Speaker 1: title they tried to put on me. I've never been
Speaker 1: a gangster. I've been I'm always been a man, and
Speaker 1: I've always been somebody who had my brother's back and
Speaker 1: and not worry about the consequences. And that's just been me.
Speaker 1: That's how I grew up. My older brother was killed
Speaker 1: when probably four minutes away from me, and that was
Speaker 1: it was nothing I can do about it, So that
Speaker 1: hunted me in my whole life, and I always voused
Speaker 1: to be my brother's keeper. I do anything for my brother. So, um,
Speaker 1: the gangster title was never me. I've done some gangster
Speaker 1: ship in my life. Let's keep it real, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm naming name another NBA player that
Speaker 1: has been in the shootut while he was in the NBA.
Speaker 1: But I'm not that person now. You know, um, everything
Speaker 1: I've been through as far as basketball court, what people
Speaker 1: don't understand, Rex, I've never been in a fight in
Speaker 1: the NBA game with the NBA player in my whole career.
Speaker 1: You know. The only the only instead of has when
Speaker 1: they threw a beer on my teammate. And yeah, they
Speaker 1: were supposed to get their ads will because they shouldn't
Speaker 1: be throwing stuff on players. So and I don't regret
Speaker 1: hitting that fan at all. I regret losing three million
Speaker 1: dollars behind it, But if that happened today, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: have took out money and we wouldn't have got suspended
Speaker 1: with all the stuff that's going on today. But I
Speaker 1: didn't mind it because I played the game with that passion.
Speaker 1: I played the game, uh like I was willing to
Speaker 1: die to get a win. And that's why I had
Speaker 1: a good career. You know, I knew I wasn't as
Speaker 1: talented some guys, but I knew that I cared more
Speaker 1: I knew I was. I was willing to put more
Speaker 1: on the line to win the game for them. And
Speaker 1: that's just the attitude I had and people respected that
Speaker 1: all around the league. And that's basically it. Man. Like
Speaker 1: I said, we all make mistakes, even with being on
Speaker 1: probation and violent and probation, having to do seven days
Speaker 1: in jail I was in the NBA. That always a
Speaker 1: learning lesson for me. Look at me now, I don't smoke,
Speaker 1: I don't drink. I'm a Muslim now, like all those
Speaker 1: things made me be perfected me to be the man
Speaker 1: I am today. And I don't regret any of it. Man,
Speaker 1: I embraced my journey. I embraced who everything I've been through,
Speaker 1: and uh, it wasn't a mistake. It was meant for
Speaker 1: me to go through those things to be able to grow.
Speaker 1: As long as you're evolving, who cares with you? What
Speaker 1: about you? Man? Um? You know, I kind of say
Speaker 1: a reputation is earned, whether good or bad. And I
Speaker 1: think to make the league, there's some ship I just
Speaker 1: had to do. You know. It was they're gonna be
Speaker 1: near you, and whether that meant basketball, fighting hard foul,
Speaker 1: I was trying to eat, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So I think my reputation early on preceding me because
Speaker 1: I was someone who wasn't afraid to get physical, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of at the end of where physicality was really
Speaker 1: allowed the early two thousand, there wasn't you know, it
Speaker 1: was kind of starting to transition more until you can't
Speaker 1: touch no one to do nothing, you know. So I
Speaker 1: was kind of an old school and I would just
Speaker 1: say I was a football player playing basketball, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, And similar to Jack. You know, obviously
Speaker 1: there's people more skill, but I felt like no one
Speaker 1: had more heart to be and I was gonna do
Speaker 1: whatever it took to beyond that court. And as you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you know, rex bouncing around on different teams,
Speaker 1: and no matter what team I went to, even on
Speaker 1: the Warrior team, the championship Warrior team I played on,
Speaker 1: I'm either starting or the sixth man or seventh man,
Speaker 1: the absolute worst, but I'm at least playing eight teen
Speaker 1: to twenty five minutes at my lowest point, you know.
Speaker 1: So my whole thing was a grind in the marathon,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, in my later years, I
Speaker 1: kind of was able to kind of shed the perception
Speaker 1: of me only because of social media, you know, because
Speaker 1: the the NBA needed bad guys, just like they needed
Speaker 1: good guys. I kind of felt like, you know, I
Speaker 1: was kind of had the bad guy narrative and then
Speaker 1: rest in peace to our brother Cobe and that in
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten when I ball faked up, that
Speaker 1: was kind of like, Okay, you're the bad guy. We're
Speaker 1: you're the person we're gonna boo whenever Arena, how dare
Speaker 1: you funk with Kobe? This is? And that. So at
Speaker 1: times it would hurt me because I would be getting
Speaker 1: all this hateful messages and all this kind of ship
Speaker 1: and I'm like, damn, I'm not a bad guy. But
Speaker 1: then at the same time, I kind of flipped the switch,
Speaker 1: like all right, well fuck it. You want me to
Speaker 1: be the bad guy, I'm gonna be a bad motherfucker this.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna be this break guy exactly. I embracing it.
Speaker 1: And it allowed me to play fourteen years in this game,
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen years overall. But you know, if you
Speaker 1: want me to be this person to fit this narrative
Speaker 1: and and it allows me to make a bunch of
Speaker 1: money and play the game of my dreams, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do that. So only through social media, I feel like
Speaker 1: myself and Jack that we're kind of able to show
Speaker 1: the world who we really are. You get to see
Speaker 1: the other side now, and that's why we enjoy what
Speaker 1: we do so much from a podcast standpoint, because I
Speaker 1: think there is narratives that the media may paint now,
Speaker 1: but now more than ever, we can strip those and
Speaker 1: we can help other people strip those by allowing them
Speaker 1: to tell their true stories. Like when me and Jack
Speaker 1: were first coming up, there was no way we could
Speaker 1: have said what I just told you because there was
Speaker 1: not an outlet for it, and there wasn't a writer.
Speaker 1: Unless there was a writer that really fun with you,
Speaker 1: there was gonna give you that platform or their opportunity
Speaker 1: to speak your piece. So now that we have, you know,
Speaker 1: everything we need in front of us, we'd have been
Speaker 1: able to kind of shed those stigmas. And we weren't
Speaker 1: bad people. We just played with a lot of hard
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do whatever it took to help our
Speaker 1: team win. You know, I played every game like it
Speaker 1: was my last, because you know, for my first five
Speaker 1: or six years, I was on one year deal, so
Speaker 1: every game was not only had an audition for my team,
Speaker 1: but it was an audition for the rest of the
Speaker 1: league and like I said, it was either going to
Speaker 1: be me or you, and it wasn't gonna be you.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of the way I looked at it
Speaker 1: and got a reputation from it. But again, people who
Speaker 1: take the time to get to know me and funk
Speaker 1: with me, you know, they do just that. But if
Speaker 1: you don't take the time and you just want to
Speaker 1: throw insults or negative things my way, it doesn't really
Speaker 1: matter to me because you didn't take the time to
Speaker 1: get to know me in the first place. I'm really
Speaker 1: am I'm so happy for you guys, and you guys
Speaker 1: put this stuff into great perspective. I had on Bonds
Speaker 1: E Wells, you know a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I played against Bonds I think for one year.
Speaker 1: But I just wish back and because they called them dudes,
Speaker 1: the jail blazers guys, they called him to jail blazers,
Speaker 1: they called him thugs, they called him to jail blazers,
Speaker 1: and they didn't have anything but a weed charge if that,
Speaker 1: I just wish that at the time Bondsi and Rashid
Speaker 1: could have had a podcast because the whole narrative would
Speaker 1: have changed style Balasty Blaws what a test and this
Speaker 1: has potentially serious and they don't kept the tree Stephen Jackson.
Speaker 1: She wallis trying to be peaspacerbout Jackson, Yellow Jackson stupids
Speaker 1: challenge and Derek callby some of you should just get
Speaker 1: Jackson out of him through this post or Testice in
Speaker 1: the stands. Well, this is awkward. Fans are getta get
Speaker 1: though Stephen Jackson's and the fans, Yes, she Wallace going
Speaker 1: into the stacks security, trying to send out the story
Speaker 1: fans and going Steve, let's focus on you for just
Speaker 1: a second, being involved in that malice of the Palace,
Speaker 1: whatever the hell they call that. I spoke with Ron
Speaker 1: we Meta about it on our second episode. What do
Speaker 1: you remember about that night and the aftermath for you? Well,
Speaker 1: going into that game, I knew that was my first year.
Speaker 1: I just got traded there, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: I just sign my big contract. But I knew it
Speaker 1: was a robbery between the Pistons and the Pacers. I
Speaker 1: knew I was going into a war zone. Um, but
Speaker 1: I knew we was a whole different team. I knew
Speaker 1: what I brought to that team something that they had
Speaker 1: missed and um, coming to that we knew that. You know,
Speaker 1: we were one of the best teams in the league.
Speaker 1: I think we were like fourteen and five at the
Speaker 1: time and something that we had a good record, and
Speaker 1: this was the game to let the NBA know all
Speaker 1: around the world that this is our year to win
Speaker 1: the championship. Jermaine was an All Star, Run was Defensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Year. Run was just dominating on both
Speaker 1: ends of the ball. And I knew I had to
Speaker 1: come in and be a smaller r on our test
Speaker 1: but not as good and uh just been able to
Speaker 1: shoot threes better. And I came in and played my role.
Speaker 1: And at the end of that game, we were up
Speaker 1: fifteen points forty five seconds left, and um, my whole
Speaker 1: attitude was, Okay, we made our point, let's get up
Speaker 1: out of here. Um. It was some issues from the
Speaker 1: previous Eastern Conference finals, like I said, I wasn't there
Speaker 1: and that I didn't know about I didn't know it
Speaker 1: was beef intention. You know, still to the point where
Speaker 1: guys want to still make hard files. Really, when the
Speaker 1: game was over, somebody put a battery in and runs
Speaker 1: back to get a file from last year, to get
Speaker 1: his file. He's like, you can get your file now wrong,
Speaker 1: we don't win the game. And when I heard that,
Speaker 1: I was at the free throw line. So when I
Speaker 1: heard that, I instantly guarded Being running down court. I said, no, wrong,
Speaker 1: go get somebody else. I got Being just so he
Speaker 1: wouldn't file him, so we can get up out of
Speaker 1: there and go home and you know, be the best
Speaker 1: team in the league at the time. Well, as I'm
Speaker 1: guarden Ben the clock you know how to do Rex
Speaker 1: and Matt when when the game is over, when you
Speaker 1: go out with somebody, you don't want the clock to
Speaker 1: run out. You ain't gonna follow him. So I'm toking
Speaker 1: garden Bend and I'm just letting him walk to the
Speaker 1: back skill rect. Just let him walk to the basket,
Speaker 1: so the clock and run out. Ron comps from out
Speaker 1: of nowhere and files being. Now, this one thing I
Speaker 1: knew before I even played with the Pacers. I knew
Speaker 1: what Ben who Ben was. Ben wasn't no punk. He
Speaker 1: was strong. He was a big old country boy that
Speaker 1: you don't want to mess with. I knew that off
Speaker 1: the rip. So when they when he filed him, the
Speaker 1: first thing I did I was like, oh man, here
Speaker 1: we go. And we didn't. Eventually get in the middle
Speaker 1: of it until we've seen them back farthing up apart
Speaker 1: where they couldn't just go to blows. See if you
Speaker 1: look at the tape, we stood there for a minute
Speaker 1: to see if there was gonna lock up first, because
Speaker 1: you know, Ben got the right to get this get
Speaker 1: back and Ron wasn't gonna run. That's one thing about us,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Back Then the five eventually
Speaker 1: happened and guy's lock up. We're gonna let him go
Speaker 1: ahead and get it in right quick, but we're gonna
Speaker 1: break it up where they didn't lock up, so we
Speaker 1: jumped into it and tried to break it up. Rip
Speaker 1: Hamilton is my Class ninety six brother. We've been tight.
Speaker 1: Uh Rashid is my brother. I looked up to Derek Coleman.
Speaker 1: But in that moment, if you see, if the tension
Speaker 1: was so high, we all was getting into it. We
Speaker 1: all are gonna push him back and forth. And after
Speaker 1: things calmed down, you know, even with going in the stands,
Speaker 1: when the punchet started being throwing in the stands, Rashid
Speaker 1: came up there and got meat. He came up there
Speaker 1: to make sure I was straight to get me out
Speaker 1: the stands because it was too much going on and
Speaker 1: it just went bad fast. Man. But I think if
Speaker 1: I can't wait till we all can sit down together
Speaker 1: because everybody has respect for each other and it was
Speaker 1: just the tension from basketball and guys want to be great.
Speaker 1: The love is still there. I just hate it happened
Speaker 1: that way for the world to see, because, like you said,
Speaker 1: we went to jail, we lost money, We got some run.
Speaker 1: Run Run missed out on the championship. That was our
Speaker 1: championship year. They suspended him the whole season Rex because
Speaker 1: somebody threw a bear at him. And and in today's society,
Speaker 1: you throw a bar on somebody, that's the sault. That's
Speaker 1: the sault. So I hate Run missed out on the championship.
Speaker 1: And the biggest thing that I took away from us,
Speaker 1: we messed up Reggie Miller's last year. That was his
Speaker 1: year to win the championship. That was Reggie's last year,
Speaker 1: and Reggie felt like he was confident in us to
Speaker 1: get us that championship. But that one moment ruined our
Speaker 1: whole year. Damn, damn. You know, there's something going on
Speaker 1: with fans in the arena's lately, you know, fans spits
Speaker 1: on Trey Young at Madison Square Garden at which, by
Speaker 1: the way, I'm in the stands right then and there.
Speaker 1: If I see it, I mean, that's not even a debate.
Speaker 1: If I saw somebody, come on, come on, that's not
Speaker 1: even the Yeah, somebody spits on him. Someone then throws
Speaker 1: a water bottle at Kyrie. Uh, it's starting to get
Speaker 1: out of hand. Did we learn from the malice at
Speaker 1: the Palace at all? I mean, how do you think
Speaker 1: about the relationship between the fans and the players in
Speaker 1: the arena right now? Well, we didn't learn from that
Speaker 1: because they only punished us. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: We were screwting Eizes on TV. We was talked about
Speaker 1: on TV. We was Searan being arrested on TV and
Speaker 1: taking the jail on TV. Not the fan we were,
Speaker 1: And that's all the NBA cared about. They didn't care
Speaker 1: about us. They cared about their business and that said
Speaker 1: a lot at the time. The NBA has to do
Speaker 1: something about these fans because Mike Tyson said it best.
Speaker 1: And it's just like on social media people. Social media's
Speaker 1: make people too competent to say things and do things
Speaker 1: without getting punched in the mouth, and that's what we
Speaker 1: have today. I completely agree, completely agree. The malice at
Speaker 1: the Palace called Steven Jackson thirty games in suspension, millions
Speaker 1: in salary and had him pleading no contest to misdemeanor
Speaker 1: assault charges stemming from the melee. Heading into the two
Speaker 1: thousand six two thousand seven season, the Indiana Pacers were
Speaker 1: still trying to repair their image. Some two years after
Speaker 1: the brawl in Auburn Hills. Stephen was twenty eight years old,
Speaker 1: and during a night off after training camp on Friday,
Speaker 1: October six, two thousand six, he went with his Pacers
Speaker 1: teammates to Club Rio in Indianapolis, Indiana. There occurred in
Speaker 1: altercation that altered his career and almost cost him his life.
Speaker 1: Stack tell me about the night of October two thousand six,
Speaker 1: you and some teammates out to the Strip club in Indiana.
Speaker 1: Lad to you firing your registered gun and being hit
Speaker 1: by a car and eventually pleading guilty to a felon
Speaker 1: account of criminal recklessness. You protected Jamal Tinsley outside of
Speaker 1: the club from getting jumped. Right, were you in field
Speaker 1: for your life at that moment? Yeah? Well, one thing
Speaker 1: about it, I was actually me and all Harrison had
Speaker 1: left the club earlier and I was pulling out the
Speaker 1: parking lot. Rex. We were in training camp, uh so
Speaker 1: me and I wasn't drinking or nothing, and now we
Speaker 1: were just going out to bond with the team because
Speaker 1: the whole team was out. Um And as we were
Speaker 1: leaving the club, I see Jamal Tenny running out the
Speaker 1: club and I see three guys following him. Well, by
Speaker 1: that time, you know, I wasn't the type of guy
Speaker 1: with it. Ain't me, I might as well going and
Speaker 1: keep going. Now I saw my backed up hopped out.
Speaker 1: Like you said, my gun was registered. As I'm going
Speaker 1: over there to help him, it's more guys coming out
Speaker 1: the club. So and I've seen a group of thirty
Speaker 1: guys in the club when I was in there, so
Speaker 1: I know it's more guys coming out, and me being
Speaker 1: in that position, I'm not gonna let guys run behind me.
Speaker 1: Knocked me out and I'm getting stumped out in the
Speaker 1: park lot. You know, I was prepared for that, so
Speaker 1: I took my gun off and let off some shots
Speaker 1: make sure they got away from me. Were During that time,
Speaker 1: one of the guys had got in the car and
Speaker 1: I had already had this idea that he was gonna
Speaker 1: try to kill me. Um he z rolled in on
Speaker 1: me and as I was running to my car, rex
Speaker 1: he dashed out the parking spot and then we end
Speaker 1: up parking lot about forty five miles power in the
Speaker 1: old school car. So he was coming so fast where
Speaker 1: I couldn't get out of the way. But the fact
Speaker 1: that I was sober, the fact that I was thinking,
Speaker 1: I was in my right mind. I just turned sideways
Speaker 1: where he couldn't take my legs. Because if I stood
Speaker 1: there he would have took my legs, I'd probably been
Speaker 1: dead or paralyzed for the rest of my life. So
Speaker 1: I jumped with the car. I jumped a little bit
Speaker 1: when my back hit the windshield and then flipped me
Speaker 1: up in the air while I ended up hitting the
Speaker 1: ground from the momentum of the car and ended up
Speaker 1: knocking all my teeth out. While I had to have
Speaker 1: plastic surgery with no anesthesia for two hours. It was
Speaker 1: cutting skin off my lips, digging debris out of my lips,
Speaker 1: all my teeth was going the most pain I ever
Speaker 1: been through in my life. I still my adrenaline made
Speaker 1: me stand right up. The car had to do you
Speaker 1: turn to get out of the parking lot. I take
Speaker 1: my gun out and unload on him. As soon as
Speaker 1: I realized my cliff is empty, I pass out and
Speaker 1: I wake up in the police car. And the only
Speaker 1: reason I woke up, and I remember being a police
Speaker 1: car because they had Marquis Days and cups as well
Speaker 1: at the time. And I'm sitting there. He markets just
Speaker 1: think I'm dying because he see my mouth is shattering
Speaker 1: and ripped open and I'm unconscious, so I'm just bleeding.
Speaker 1: So he's kicking the door. My my teeth. My boy
Speaker 1: died in here, Come get him out of here. He
Speaker 1: think I'm in the car died, and I come out.
Speaker 1: I wake up, and I'm trying to figure out what's
Speaker 1: going on. And I was just out of him man,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what was going on. But I
Speaker 1: don't regret that either, because I was having my teammate.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, my lip stills scarred up from that day.
Speaker 1: But I'm alive, and I think the only reason guard
Speaker 1: protecting me because I wasn't out there wreck just waving
Speaker 1: a gun on some gangster ship like I wasn't a gangster.
Speaker 1: I was protecting my teammate. I had a gun license,
Speaker 1: and I did what I had to do. And if
Speaker 1: I was in a situation today when somebody trying to
Speaker 1: jump on Matt and I had to use my gun again,
Speaker 1: I'll do it again. Your teeth look good, though they do.
Speaker 1: Look at him. Look, yes they do, because I had
Speaker 1: I had a gap at the time. But Rex, I
Speaker 1: mean mean, like I said, all that, what he just said,
Speaker 1: obviously it's crazy, but that's kind of what led him
Speaker 1: to us. You know, Indiana feels like, okay, well ship, Okay,
Speaker 1: this motherfucker's crazy, so we need this. So that's how
Speaker 1: the world works. He ends up getting traded that season
Speaker 1: the Golden State, and that's how, you know, our relationship
Speaker 1: becomes what it is, and we make a historic run
Speaker 1: that same season, and it kind of been kind of
Speaker 1: shedding the stigma since then. But that's when I spoke earlier.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, incidents like the malice and incidents
Speaker 1: like that, the politics of the game. It's kind of
Speaker 1: what kept Jack from acquiring accolades that he definitely deserved,
Speaker 1: whether it be All Stars or First Team All Defense
Speaker 1: or this kind of ship. Because of the trouble he
Speaker 1: got off off the court and It wasn't him on
Speaker 1: no bully waving a gun half fun ship. It was
Speaker 1: always in defense of his brother. So that's why you know,
Speaker 1: I love this guy and respect him and will do
Speaker 1: anything for him. Beautiful me. I spoke with former NBA
Speaker 1: player Stephen Jackson today. He called George Floyd his twin brother.
Speaker 1: The two spend a lot of time here in Houston,
Speaker 1: and Jackson told me he is now making it his
Speaker 1: life's mission to get justice for his twin. Do you
Speaker 1: think as athletes, but also as black men, you have
Speaker 1: the responsibility to use your platform to talk about the
Speaker 1: problems in society that I haven't been getting enough attention
Speaker 1: decade after decade. Or is it a choice that every
Speaker 1: person should make for themselves. Yeah, I think it's mandatory
Speaker 1: because and it's not just as a black man. I
Speaker 1: think it's mandatory for us, but it's mandatory for everybody
Speaker 1: that wants equality. Thank you. You know, if you can
Speaker 1: look at somebody from every race like I can and
Speaker 1: tell him I love him and mean, it's just like
Speaker 1: I can tell you I love you, Rexon, You know
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know it's reciprocated from you. You know,
Speaker 1: then that's how the world supposed to me. That's the
Speaker 1: answer to getting the quality, that's the answer to stop
Speaker 1: all this racism. Doing your part. Everybody has a part
Speaker 1: to play, not just because you're an athlete, not just
Speaker 1: because you have a voice, but everybody has a part
Speaker 1: to play and getting this thing right and getting rid
Speaker 1: of the people who hate, getting rid of racism and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But but we have a voice, We
Speaker 1: have a voice. I didn't ask to be the face
Speaker 1: of the biggest civil right movement. I lost the twin,
Speaker 1: I lost a close friend. It was real pain that
Speaker 1: put me in that position. I didn't ask to be
Speaker 1: in that position. But at the same time, I inherited
Speaker 1: being the voice for other people who don't have a voice.
Speaker 1: When I went down there, it was a woman named
Speaker 1: Miss del Say Cherrell. Her son had been put in
Speaker 1: the sale for eight hours and had a pre existing condition.
Speaker 1: They left me in at a die and she had
Speaker 1: been screaming for help, but nobody heard her until the
Speaker 1: day we went down there and had that press conference
Speaker 1: with my brother. So I inherited being other people's voice.
Speaker 1: But we all have a voice to play. And if
Speaker 1: you're not out here helping people and trying to help
Speaker 1: somebody benefit or pick somebody up, then what are you doing?
Speaker 1: I think really it's to each his own. But we
Speaker 1: feel it a responsibility for us because we have been
Speaker 1: through so much ship and we had lost friends and
Speaker 1: family members and could have took a turn right or
Speaker 1: left that could have made us a statistic on the
Speaker 1: wrong side of defence, you know. So that we've been
Speaker 1: able to make it through, although different journeys for Jack
Speaker 1: and I but similar at the same time, we've been
Speaker 1: able to make it through and again second round picks
Speaker 1: who got cut and had to grind, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: both able to win championships. But then you know our
Speaker 1: second act, you know, we're seeing deals and getting situations
Speaker 1: like we were stars in the league, and like I said,
Speaker 1: we we knew we were role players, important role players,
Speaker 1: but we were never like superstars are all stars, although
Speaker 1: Jack should have probably been an All star, but he
Speaker 1: got in that fight and politics came into it. But
Speaker 1: funck that. But again, I think that because the way
Speaker 1: we move and how real we are, we've been getting
Speaker 1: these doors opened that normally don't happen to guys that
Speaker 1: kind of had our journey or our type of careers.
Speaker 1: You know, so we do feel it's important to not
Speaker 1: only speak on sports, but speak on social issues that
Speaker 1: may not get attention. And now more than ever, it's
Speaker 1: not so much about shut up and dribble. They try
Speaker 1: to pull that ship. It didn't work because we are,
Speaker 1: as Jack is, you know, lad, the biggest marks our
Speaker 1: history has ever seen. We are advocates not only for
Speaker 1: social justice, for social equity. We we know, we're big
Speaker 1: proponents in the cannabis space, where we preach for people
Speaker 1: and in help people get funding in the cannabis space,
Speaker 1: where in the social justice space, where fathers, where business owners, Uh,
Speaker 1: we do philanthropy. Maybe there's so many facets to us
Speaker 1: that you know, we feel like that. Obviously getting in
Speaker 1: this space, we were gonna have to talk about sports,
Speaker 1: but we really do want to talk about life because
Speaker 1: we're all affected by life. And uh, I think we've
Speaker 1: done a good job of doing that. I'm with you.
Speaker 1: Goodness said it better last year or two, last four
Speaker 1: or five been really tough. You know, I say it
Speaker 1: all the time. You know, I'm fortunate that I just
Speaker 1: get to learn about racism. You guys wake up black
Speaker 1: every day, I wake up white every day, and it's
Speaker 1: on all of us. If you've got a platform and
Speaker 1: you're not trying to use it to help advance the agenda,
Speaker 1: then you're doing it wrong. That's my opinion. I love
Speaker 1: you guys for doing what you're doing for reals. Uh. Jack,
Speaker 1: you've been known to talk about your relationship with gangs,
Speaker 1: and based on where you're from and and the world
Speaker 1: you knew. Uh, you're somebody that young men around the
Speaker 1: world look up to with your candor and your connection
Speaker 1: with a higher power. Uh. What is that change in
Speaker 1: your life like for you and the world around you? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm a real one, um. I didn't expect to wake
Speaker 1: up one morning and see some the only person on
Speaker 1: earth that look exactly like me getting murdered for the
Speaker 1: world to see. My life changed that day. One thing
Speaker 1: people don't know was that incident didn't cataput me into
Speaker 1: giving back. I had been giving back to twenty sixteen Rashid,
Speaker 1: going to going to plan and giving water back. So
Speaker 1: I had already started that. But being that my brother
Speaker 1: was murdered and there was so many other murders by
Speaker 1: police that has been looked over and been swept under
Speaker 1: the rug, and the first thing they tried to do.
Speaker 1: It's belittle the character of the person who's been murdered
Speaker 1: to make so they can validate what they did to him.
Speaker 1: And I wasn't gonna let that happen to my twin.
Speaker 1: I was so hurt that I didn't know what to do. Rex.
Speaker 1: I just lad with my heart. Something told me to
Speaker 1: go down there and stand for him, because one thing
Speaker 1: I did know the all the people that had been
Speaker 1: murdered by police, none of them had one of the
Speaker 1: biggest podcasts in the world, none of them had an
Speaker 1: NBA champion as a twin, and none of them at
Speaker 1: a voice like I had. So it was mandatory that
Speaker 1: I stand up for him. And it cataported like I
Speaker 1: didn't ask to be the face of the biggest civil
Speaker 1: rights moves ever. People. I was put in that position
Speaker 1: by losing a friend, and to be honest, rest I
Speaker 1: have to say this, it's a lot of activists that
Speaker 1: hate that I'm in the face of that because this
Speaker 1: is what they do, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: so I'm getting death best from people that don't want equality,
Speaker 1: I'm getting hate from my own kind because if they
Speaker 1: wish it was them, you know, it was so much
Speaker 1: going on, like I was calling Matt like it was
Speaker 1: times when I was frustrating. The first two weeks have
Speaker 1: been in Minnesota, Rex, I didn't eat because I was
Speaker 1: up all day marching, speaking, doing interviews, just trying to
Speaker 1: bring attention to this because I knew my brother had
Speaker 1: a past like we all do, and I knew they
Speaker 1: was gonna try to bring that up to try to
Speaker 1: demean his character. So I knew he had a daughter,
Speaker 1: and I was friends with his daughter's mother, and I
Speaker 1: knew that I had to get down there and speak
Speaker 1: for them and be there for them. And I'm just
Speaker 1: happy that we were able to get justice. I'm happy
Speaker 1: that his death wasn't in vaining my work then going vain.
Speaker 1: But I had to grow as a person because I
Speaker 1: don't want to be a hypocrite, Rex. I wanted to
Speaker 1: lead by example, you know, And that's why I had
Speaker 1: to make these changes in my life, you know, for
Speaker 1: me to grow. Like Matt said earlier, we're getting deals
Speaker 1: and we get stuff. We got stuff going on that
Speaker 1: only star players in the NBA get. So in order
Speaker 1: for me to show God that I appreciate and I'm
Speaker 1: humble about everything, He's blessing us with. I got to
Speaker 1: continue to grow and be a better person. And I
Speaker 1: know that I'm not. I'm no different than nobody else. Rex,
Speaker 1: I'm no different than no other human being on this earth.
Speaker 1: But the blessings I have, I appreciate it. So the
Speaker 1: only wayson I gonna show them I'm thank was. But
Speaker 1: I can tell you and to grow, and that's what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. Yes, you are. Remember, guys, when they're attacking you,
Speaker 1: you're winning. You're winning. When they're attacking you, You're winning. Matt,
Speaker 1: let's change gets for a second. Talk about you for
Speaker 1: a second. Math How did summer change your life and
Speaker 1: thinking about society? The NBA stepped up while in the
Speaker 1: bubble in Orlando. Would you like to see more being
Speaker 1: done by the league in society at large? I think, so,
Speaker 1: you know, this this social activism space, in justice space,
Speaker 1: I've kind of been in, but kind of been in
Speaker 1: under the radar um because to me, it wasn't about
Speaker 1: getting recognition for what I'm doing. It was just about
Speaker 1: doing the work. You know, So I'm doing you know,
Speaker 1: I did the march for Stefan Clark, who was shot
Speaker 1: eighteen times by police, and Sacramento you know, paid for
Speaker 1: you know, me and me and DeMarcus Cousins paid for
Speaker 1: the funeral, paid for a lot of different stuff. But
Speaker 1: it was never really about being recognized. We did it
Speaker 1: because we wanted to make a difference and and we
Speaker 1: felt obligated to help our people. So, you know, when hit,
Speaker 1: it kind of just put everything under the magnifying glass.
Speaker 1: So when Jack was out there marching every day I
Speaker 1: could see him. I'm calling him, I'm checking on him,
Speaker 1: telling him to eat, tell him to take a day off,
Speaker 1: telling them to take a deep breath, tell him to
Speaker 1: take relax. I'm proud of him. I love him. There
Speaker 1: was even points where he was pissed at me. It
Speaker 1: wouldn't respond to me because I was on him so much,
Speaker 1: but I knew he needed to hear it. Even if
Speaker 1: he didn't respond, I knew he hear that. So when
Speaker 1: Jack is out there marching, I'm up in Sacramento at
Speaker 1: the Capitol, you know, working on policies, trying to change bills,
Speaker 1: getting bills passed, police procedure bills. UM helped get a
Speaker 1: B three ninety two, which is a police for seizure
Speaker 1: bill that UM was put into law out here in California.
Speaker 1: So I was doing kind of the behind the scenes
Speaker 1: work and realizing that everyone has a place in this game.
Speaker 1: You know, Doc Rivers says, you know, be a star
Speaker 1: in your role, and that doesn't only mean on the court,
Speaker 1: that means in life, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: Jack was out there marching. I'm trying to get policies passed.
Speaker 1: I'm going to fly and meet with Joe Biden before
Speaker 1: the election talking he wants the black vote. What are
Speaker 1: you gonna do for the black vote? You know, you
Speaker 1: helped this build. It has incarcerated more black people than anyone.
Speaker 1: So I'm out here asking hard questions and doing things
Speaker 1: because again I was trying to do my part. So yes,
Speaker 1: happy that the NBA stepped up. It did something. And
Speaker 1: this is something that Jack and I actually disagreed on
Speaker 1: and talked about because he didn't feel like the players
Speaker 1: should play and he felt like, obviously similar to Kyrie,
Speaker 1: where there's more important things to basketball, and I completely
Speaker 1: a thousand percent agree with that. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: Rex I felt like, um, individually, we have some big
Speaker 1: voices in Lebron and Chris, and you're gonna hear those
Speaker 1: guys whether they're playing or not, but I felt like
Speaker 1: collectively for our message to really get around the world,
Speaker 1: we needed that NBA logo behind it. So I was
Speaker 1: glad that the NBA and the players chose to play.
Speaker 1: I'm glad they took every single interview and opportunity to
Speaker 1: whether it's even just putting black lives matter on the court,
Speaker 1: people might not think that does something, but the fact
Speaker 1: that a multibillion dollar corporation, sporting corporation is doing that,
Speaker 1: it's a big deal. And the fact that the players
Speaker 1: continue to push and say people's names and get things done,
Speaker 1: understanding the power we have now. So I think that
Speaker 1: experience united us and understood that. You know, and it's
Speaker 1: not only when I say us, it's not blacks. To me,
Speaker 1: it's us versus hate. So hate comes in every shape,
Speaker 1: form and color. So we understand that our allies may
Speaker 1: not be the same color to us, and our family
Speaker 1: or friends may be on the opposite side because they
Speaker 1: have hated them. So to me, it's everybody versus hate.
Speaker 1: But I love the people that came together for one thing,
Speaker 1: which was love, inequality and continuing to push the message.
Speaker 1: So you know, Jack with his marching me doing what
Speaker 1: I was doing, the NBA doing what we're doing. We're
Speaker 1: all continuing to push this message, and I feel like
Speaker 1: for the first time, after four years of unequal footing,
Speaker 1: that they're starting to listen. So, now, what what is
Speaker 1: our strategy moving forward? You know, we understand that the
Speaker 1: power in our numbers. They call us minorities, and when
Speaker 1: I say minorities is everybody pretty much but white people.
Speaker 1: The only reason why they cast minorities is to keep
Speaker 1: us in our place. If we come together, were actually
Speaker 1: the majority, where actually there's more of us than there
Speaker 1: is of them, and I kind of think that's what
Speaker 1: they fear. So I think we we learned that when
Speaker 1: we come together, we can flip states, We can do
Speaker 1: things that we never thought was possible. We have people
Speaker 1: thinking that the election was rigged because so many people
Speaker 1: the color of us came out and actually voted for
Speaker 1: the first time. So there's power in numbers. I hope
Speaker 1: we continue to grow off that and learn from it.
Speaker 1: And again, it's not white versus black, black versus Asian
Speaker 1: white verse. It's not it's love versus hate, because again,
Speaker 1: hate comes in all shapes, forms and colors, and we
Speaker 1: have to eradicate that we have to continue to call
Speaker 1: people on their bullshit. Some people may need to be slapped,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, some people feel comfortable saying crazy
Speaker 1: stuff in your face. And it's not the days where
Speaker 1: we just have to take anymore. So I'm not obviously
Speaker 1: condoning us, but sometimes violence it happens in the process.
Speaker 1: But again, the world is listening, and what is gonna
Speaker 1: be our message moving forward? What is going to be
Speaker 1: our strategy moving forward? Because we fought, we've rioted, we've
Speaker 1: burned things down, and that's got a little bit of attention.
Speaker 1: But now that they're actually listening, what are we gonna
Speaker 1: do with our minds to help better not only us,
Speaker 1: but better our kids futures. Stevie, I'm I got a feeling.
Speaker 1: I know what the tears are about, but what are
Speaker 1: they about? Yeah, it just you know, hearing Matt talk,
Speaker 1: it just took me back to that place, man, Like
Speaker 1: it was so many people Rex that was on my
Speaker 1: phone calling, you know, when the cameras was around, when
Speaker 1: the story was hot, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: that's why I say, on my brother's keeping, that's why
Speaker 1: I love Matth so much, because those people nowhere around now,
Speaker 1: I'm still doing the work. My tears are still here
Speaker 1: and uh and uh to know how he was there,
Speaker 1: for me to know where I was going through at
Speaker 1: that moment um, for everybody that was around with the
Speaker 1: hammers and and and and for him to still be
Speaker 1: here on my side, like I appreciate that. It just
Speaker 1: took me back to that spot, man. Um just thinking
Speaker 1: about you know, everything I was going through at that moment. Man.
Speaker 1: But I just appreciate my brother so much. Man, And
Speaker 1: like the tears will never go away because I really
Speaker 1: lost the friend. My mama tell you you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, if she even thought that was a Sunday
Speaker 1: times when she saw him, that's how much we're looking
Speaker 1: like And uh, it just took me back to that
Speaker 1: place for us. Second, man, well, you know these tears
Speaker 1: are not fake, they really so when they when I
Speaker 1: feel it, they come out good. Good let him out.
Speaker 1: The horrifying murder of George Floyd happened and was broadcast
Speaker 1: on MA in Minneapolis, Minnesota, after then police officer Derek S.
Speaker 1: Chauvin handcuffed put face down in the street, and put
Speaker 1: his knee on the neck of George Floyd for nine
Speaker 1: minutes and twenty nine seconds, killing him while onlookers filmed,
Speaker 1: but we're not allowed to intervene. This all occurred because
Speaker 1: George Floyd was suspected by a grocery store employee of
Speaker 1: using a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. On June, Derek Chauvin
Speaker 1: was sentenced to twenty two years and six months after
Speaker 1: being convicted by a jury in April. May George Floyd
Speaker 1: rest in peace. Maybe we all use our voices for
Speaker 1: justice and equality for all. I want to thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to part one of our part two series
Speaker 1: with Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson. Part two will air
Speaker 1: next Tuesday at nine am six am Pacific. For those
Speaker 1: who are subscribed on your favorite podcast platform. This is Charges.
Speaker 1: Charges is created by Portlay and Control Media. It's produced
Speaker 1: by DV Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit i Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.