1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show, I'm answering 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: your emails. I asked for your pet pictures and animal questions, 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: and you gave them to me. Thanks. So without further ado, 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: let's talk about how bugs taste, graveyard dogs, juvenile delinquent birds, 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: and existential questions about evolution. Discover the summores, me answer 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: the truly age old questions zebras black with white stripes 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: or white with black stripes and are they related to 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: the band The White Stripes. So here is my first email. 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: Hello Katie and the rest of the Creature Feature team. 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: My name is Ayumi. She knows z Aki, she her, 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: and I love your podcast so much. I've been trying 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: to catch up on the pod, but also keep listening 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: to newer episodes immediately and I'm just endlessly delighted with 16 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: the je episode. Thank you. I am writing this after 17 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: having listened to your delightful Bunny episode with Joel Monique, 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: who was also delightful. I agree Joel is delightful. So first, 19 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: a kind of response Firstly, of course, Pika in terms 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: of the written form, looks similar to Pikachu, but has 21 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: a different pronunciation. Pikachu's name comes from pika, pika and 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: automonopeia for sparkling or shocking all that makes sense, and 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: chow the automonopeia for mice equivalent to squeak, so you 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: could say Pikachu's name means spark squeak or light squeak. 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: I love that. Also, you made comments about rabbits having 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: ears big enough to fly, and it made me think 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: of something interesting about Japanese and rabbits. One of the 28 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: most complicated aspects of the language is that we have 29 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: a million ways to count things. Sure, there's a standard 30 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: way to go one to three, but we have a 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: different word to count balls versus sticks versus chop sticks, 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: and in that regard, we have a different counter for 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: animals and other non humans versus birds. Like you can 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: count birds with the standard epiki niki san biki, but 35 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: why would you. Rabbits are special in that they are 36 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: not birds, but they also have traditionally been counted with 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: the bird counter ichi niua sanba because in the past, 38 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: when there have been bands on eating meat, bird meat 39 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: was not considered part of that legal definition. It's considered 40 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: different the way some people today might not quote eat 41 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: meat but eat fish no problem. So since rabbits have 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: these long ears that could be seen as wings, we 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: counted them legally as birds and ate them up. Oh no, Also, 44 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: I have some questions. First question, A lot of robots 45 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: in sci fi are made to look like humans. But 46 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: what animals do you think, structurally would make a good 47 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: robot inspiration. I know there are robot dogs, but they 48 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: seem to all be cops for some reason. Second question, 49 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: I have a podcast dedicated to the magic called girl genre, 50 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: and one aspect of the genre are mascots, which stem 51 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: from the idea of which is familiars. While the most 52 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: famous is alien cat Luna from Sailor Moon and her Family. 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: Over the years, many magical girls before and since have 54 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: had animal companions, some of whom are distinctly based on 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: specific animals, and others that are vaguely an amalgamation of them. 56 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: Are there any animals you think who would look like 57 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: great companions to magical girls, whether they fight crime or 58 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: simply want to use magic while living more or less 59 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: a mundane existence. I hope you're having a swell day 60 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: full of burbs au me she no Zaki. Thank you 61 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: so much for all those cool linguistic facts and am 62 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: I love that rabbits were kind of classified as birds 63 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: just so you could eat them, poor buddies. But they 64 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: do have those big years, which I guess could be 65 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: mistaken for wings. So in answer to your question the 66 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: first question of which animals would make cool robots, Uh, well, 67 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: I kind of want to look at some of the 68 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: animal inspired robots that actually exist and are very strange. 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: One of my favorite genre of machines are machines based 70 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: on birds, because it's so counterintuitive. We figured out how 71 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: to make machines fly like airplanes, helicopters, and drones, but 72 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: we also insist on making ornithopters or machines designed to 73 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: fly like birds. Instead of using spinning rotors, they actually 74 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: use flapping wings to fly. So the first person to 75 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: try to invent an ornithopter, at least the first recorded 76 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: person with Leonardo da Vinci, who designed one of the 77 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: first ornithopters, but his designs never really got off the ground, 78 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: so to speak. It was designed to hold a human 79 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: and flap large membranous wings with foot pedals, but it 80 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: didn't really work. The first ornithopter to achieve flight was 81 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: built in France in eighteen seventy one. It was the 82 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: size of a small songbird and used a wind up 83 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: rubber band to flap the wings. In nineteen o two, 84 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: an ornithopter large enough to hold a human was built, 85 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: but it was unable to fly, so whoops, didn't really work. 86 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: I think that the most efficient way to get a 87 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: human to fly is actually the gliding method, which we 88 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: found with planes and even with the non motor propelled 89 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: early planes made by the Right brothers. But nevertheless, in 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: nineteen forty two the first successful manned ornithopter was built 91 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: by Adelbert Schmidt, who managed to fly about sixty feet 92 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: or eighteen meters in a small plane with flapping wings 93 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: that used a bicycle chain mechanism. It's much less efficient 94 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: than gliding planes we use. In fact, this is also 95 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: true of birds, so large birds such as condors and 96 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: albatrosses tend to use gliding rather than flapping or most 97 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: of their air time. So for humans, heavy humans are 98 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: a heavy plane, it makes much more sense to use 99 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: gliding motion uh basically lift from air, going over and 100 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: under the wing the ber Neowly effect to achieve lift 101 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: and flight. Rather than flapping big wings. It's just the 102 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: bigger you are flapping starts to make less sense in 103 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: terms of physics of flying. In the nineteen sixties, larger 104 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: ornithopters with a wingspan of eight feet were built by 105 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: Perceval Spencer. They used an internal combustion engine to flap 106 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: the wings and were able to fly successfully. It's just 107 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: kind of wild to me that we already figured out 108 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: how planes work, but we still insist on trying to 109 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: make a big mechanical bird, which I don't know, I 110 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: think that's great. Um. Other weird robots that were making 111 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: that I think is worth mentioning is the octopus robot, 112 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: a sawft bodied robot who can swim and grab things 113 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: with its arms. All include links to us some videos 114 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: of all these guys in the show notes. But it's 115 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: really really weird. The you know, you think of a 116 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: robot is being made out of metal, but when you 117 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: start to make a robot out of like silicon and 118 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: like you see these like undulating floppy arms, very uncanny. Uh. 119 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: There are fish robots who undulate very convincingly like fish 120 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: it's it's again a kind of Uncanny Valley, but with fish, 121 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: Like the Uncanny Valley is full of robot fish. Uh, 122 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: and you know I'm into it. Besto Robotics, which I 123 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: believe is a German company, has made underwater jellyfish robots, 124 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: so basically soft bodied robots that undulate their arms like 125 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: jellyfish would. Um. But they've also made an air jellyfish, 126 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: so like I believe it's a helium inflated balloon and 127 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: then a ring of robotic arms, so it loats like 128 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: a jellyfish, but in the air. It's really cool, really 129 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: really cool. Okay. So part two of the question is 130 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: what would make some good Magical Girls sidekick animals? There 131 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: are so many, so many real life animals that look 132 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: like they'd come from a Magical Girl manga or anime. 133 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: Here are just a few. There's the Japanese war flying squirrels, 134 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: who can glide through the air with skin flaps. Uh, 135 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: and they look more adorable than Pikachu. In my opinion, 136 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: they are absolutely adorable. There are giant purple squirrels found 137 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: in India called Indian giant squirrels. They are enormous squirrels 138 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: with huge tails. Their body length is about a foot 139 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: or thirty centimeters. Tail length is about a foot and 140 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: six inches or forty five centimeters. And their coat colors 141 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: are beautiful. They range from reddish brown to maroon with 142 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: patches of yellowish cream colored fur on their arms, face, tail, 143 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: and belly. Uh, and they're not ture. Fur color kind 144 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: of looks like a rainbow of beautiful colors. And they 145 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: just look so festive and definitely look like they belong 146 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: in um Magical Girl anime. And if your Magical Girl 147 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: isn't squeamish about squay mates like lizards and snakes, there 148 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: are some really cool dudes like the armadilla lizard that 149 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: looks like a tiny dragon in it bites its own 150 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: tail to form a little ball. And there are rainbow 151 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: snakes who scales are iridescent enshine like a rainbow. Definitely 152 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: lots of really cool animals that would be right at 153 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: home in an anime. So, um, we're gonna take a 154 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: quick break, but then I will be back with some 155 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:44,719 Speaker 1: more spooky listener questions. All right, and we're back, and 156 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: here is another listener question. Uh, and I believe this 157 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: was about the episode we just did with bridget about 158 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: the fact that the planet is haunted. Um. All right, 159 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: so here is the email. Dear Katie. When you said 160 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: ghost dogs on the most recent episode, my first thought 161 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: was about the English folk tale of the church grim 162 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: or graveyard grim. I don't know if it ever actually happened, 163 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: but the basic idea is that before a church could 164 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: be built or graveyard established on a new piece of land, 165 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: a dog should be buried there so that its soul 166 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: would be a permanent guardian against evil and shepherd the 167 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: freshly interred to the afterlife. The various versions in details 168 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: of this folk tale can be quite dark, but I 169 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: prefer to think of them as eternal good boys, mostly 170 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: because I grew up next to a cemetery and our 171 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: dogs definitely thought it was their job to guard it. 172 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: As the dogs passed away, we would bury them in 173 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: the backyard. A few years ago, my parents sold the house, 174 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: which was torn down so that the cemetery could expand 175 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: onto the land. When I really start to miss them, 176 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty nice to imagine that they're there to 177 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: comfort the mourners and befriend the dearly departed. Oh that's 178 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: so sweet. On a more lighthearted note, I have knowingly 179 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: eaten bugs, and my review is pretty bland. First there 180 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: were the meal worms. They pretty much taste like whatever 181 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: you cook them in, and the hard bits get stuck 182 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: in your teeth like popcorn colonels grows. Second was the 183 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: chocolate chirp cookie, which you might guess was a chocolate 184 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: chip cookie with feeder crickets baked in on the top. 185 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: They had a mild sort of nutty flavor and a 186 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: papery texture that my uncle said was from the wings 187 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: shrug emoji. Oh God. Overall, I would eat bugs again 188 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: without too much fuss, but only if I really had to. 189 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for making this podcast, sincerely, Gretchen. 190 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Gretchen. Oh and then, just as 191 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: an added email, someone else mentioned the mouth feel of bugs, 192 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: so I thought I would add that in as well. 193 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: Here here's another email. Hi, there, I've eaten lots of bugs. 194 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: I traveled around Southeast Asian the military most of the time. 195 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: The whole cooked bug is just a salty, crunchy treat 196 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: sold as street food. While in Thailand I had delicious 197 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: cook scorpion. Their stinger was removed, but the claus had 198 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: the crunchy, then soft taste you talked about on the podcast. 199 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: Thanks Kendra and Kindred sent me a picture of a 200 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: dog wearing a scarf, which I love. Uh. Yeah, thank 201 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: you both so much for your review of the mouth 202 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: field bugs. Uh. It sounds a little bit like popcorn shrimp, 203 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: which I already like. When I have popcorn shrimp, I 204 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: like get halfway through a plate of it and then 205 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: suddenly get this gross sensation that I'm eating like sea bugs. 206 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: So thank you for reinforcing that. No, I'm kidding, but 207 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: that is Yeah, that's very interesting. I think I think 208 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: a lot of the texture and stuff it's like similar 209 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: to a lot of foods we already eat. It's just 210 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: psychological why we don't like it when it comes to bugs, 211 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: Like you know, a bug might taste the same as 212 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: like a lobster texture or shrimp texture, or like a 213 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: popcorn texture, but then just the idea of it being 214 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: an insect can be can turn people off of it. 215 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: But that's all just cultural. And Gretchen, thank you so 216 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: much for bringing the grim in your stories about your dogs. Um. 217 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: I think we talked about the grim a long time 218 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: ago on the show one of the earlier episodes. I 219 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: think it was called were Wolf there Wolf in February. 220 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: I think I might have mentioned on the show that 221 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: I was wondering if the dogs association with the graveyard 222 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: was similar to crows, where they're attracted to the smells 223 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: of the fresh burial sites because they have such a 224 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: keen sense of smell. And I wonder if dogs would 225 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: sometimes come and like sniff around the graveyard and then 226 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: people would associate them as spirits of the graveyard, protective spirits. 227 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, dogs are so good at smelling um bodies, 228 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: and they have such a keen sense of smell that 229 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: they're actually used to recover bodies human remains detection dogs 230 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: are the best at finding das of any tool that 231 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: we have. Uh. They're trained to detect the chemicals that 232 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: come off of cadavers, and they need to be trained. 233 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: And because they need to be trained, guess what that means. 234 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: They have to be trained by sniffing and playing Hide 235 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:20,359 Speaker 1: and go seek with real dead body parts, which horrifying, 236 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: but weirdly cute but still horrifying. I keep vacillating between 237 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: cute and horrifying. But now let's move along from the 238 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: topic of death to the topic of birth. The birth 239 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: of baby birds. All right, here is an email. Hi Katie, 240 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: my name is Patrick and I like birds. So I 241 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: just listened to your Jurassic Park debunking episode and absolutely 242 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: loved it. In your viewer question, you talked about the 243 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: imprinting of birds to their mother and father, or what 244 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: they see as their mom and dad. Then I'm not 245 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: sure if you touched on this in another podcast, but 246 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: cowbirds do we know how their brains are wired that 247 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: they don't try to mate with the birds that raise them, 248 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: rather than knowing to just lay their eggs in those nests. Basically, 249 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: why don't cowbirds imprint on their adoptive parents? Thank you 250 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: so much for your email, Patrick, This is a brilliant 251 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: question and actually when I hadn't thought about. So, just 252 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: to give some background, cowbirds are a type of brood 253 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: parasite bird similar to cuckoos, who lay their eggs in 254 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: a host bird's nest so they get pregnant. They find 255 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: an unsuspecting host bird's nest, lay their eggs in it, 256 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: and make basically trick other birds into raising their own young. 257 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: So this is actually a case of rude parasitism, but 258 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: it's very cute because they're baby birds um, But of 259 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: course the question is, like birds when they're learning bird calls, 260 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: when they're learning behaviors, they pick it up from their parents, 261 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: so they imprint upon their parents. They learned bird song 262 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: from their parents, and often when you have cases of 263 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: a bird being raised by a different bird families say, 264 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: like in a research setting, they have found that birds 265 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: will actually pick up the song of their adoptive parents. 266 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: So why doesn't this happen with cowbirds is a really 267 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: really good question and one that is of interest to 268 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: researchers because it seems that parasitic brooding birds are resistant 269 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: to imprinting by their host families and still grow up 270 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: to have cowbird songs, cowbird behaviors, or cuckoo songs and 271 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: cuckoo behaviors, which is kind of mind blowing because either 272 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: these birds are an exception in their development or there's 273 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: something sneaky going on, and some recent research seems to 274 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: indicate there's something sneaky going on. So a recent study 275 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: that was published in the Journal of Animal Behavior found 276 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: that juvenile cowbirds leave their host nests at dusk and 277 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: return in the morning. So there are a bunch of 278 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: juvenile delinquent cowbirds who sneak off at night to go 279 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: hang out with other cowbirds I assume probably listen for 280 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: the cause of other cowbirds, and maybe they actually sneakily 281 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: go and learn cowbird behaviors away from their host nest 282 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: and then return to go get fed and everything. So 283 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: this must be when they're fledgling, so capable of limited 284 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: amounts of flight. So yeah, it's really really an interesting 285 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: question when you have basically a parasite that has to 286 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: figure out other ways to have the normal experience of 287 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: a bird growing up because they have managed to bypass 288 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: the whole need to feed their babies, but their babies 289 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: still need to somehow learn um how to be an 290 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: adult cowbird. So really interesting stuff. I'll keep my eyes 291 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: open for more studies about this. But thank you so much, Patrick, 292 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: that is a really really good question. Uh. And with that, 293 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: we're going to take another real quick break, but then 294 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: we will be back with yet another question of kind 295 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: of an existential nature. And we are back, and there 296 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: is a question I really wanted to answer. I think 297 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: I got more than one questions like this, but I 298 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: M really think this is important to address, all right, 299 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: So here is the email. Hi, Katie, I love your podcast. 300 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 1: It's the best. Thank you. As a newer ecology student, 301 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: it seems like in every species and population I learned about, 302 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: the idea for quote winning at evolution in life is 303 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: to stay alive and just reproduce. This is super weird 304 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: to me in human context because I never want children, 305 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: logistics simplified by being gay too, But as a humble 306 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: human organism who wants to win at life, would the 307 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: equivalent for me be donating my eggs when life but 308 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: also wash my hands clean of overpopulation issues. It seems 309 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: completely healthy to ask my favorite evolutionary biology podcast or 310 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: my personal reproductive questions, So tell me what to do. 311 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Kayla, Well, thank you so much for your question. Kayla. 312 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: First of all, I feel very underqualified to answer such 313 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: a philosophical, philosophical and existent, uh existential question. Wow. So 314 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: I can't even say the words, and yet you're asking 315 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: for my advice. But yeah, it is one I wanted 316 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: to address on the show because so when I talk 317 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: about evolution sometimes I use kind of shorthand, like you know, 318 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: if you get this trait, like you win at the 319 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: evolutionary game, like say you you have some kind of 320 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: um adaptation and it's like all right, and then if 321 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: you have this adaptation and then you survive long enough 322 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 1: to reproduce, then it's there. You've wanted. You've wanted this 323 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: game of evolution. But this is all in terms of 324 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: explaining the reasons for why you see these evolutionary patterns. 325 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: It's not really winning or a victory in any kind 326 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: of like human sense or moral sense or anything. So 327 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: the thing is like humans are a unique species and 328 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: that we actually get to question whether it's worth playing 329 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: the game of evolution and if that's the most important 330 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: thing of life. I mean, maybe there are other species 331 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: that have some metacognition. I don't know, maybe elephants and dolphins, 332 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: some other primates have some ability to kind of have 333 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: a metic cognition other than just their instincts. Um, but 334 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, uh, generally speaking, I think humans are the 335 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: most advanced in terms of we are actually able to 336 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: question our own existence. We are able to question our 337 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: own environment and have discussions about it like we're doing 338 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: right now. And what that means is that we get 339 00:20:54,520 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: to not be controlled by like evolution necessarily. So there's 340 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: no sacred meaning to evolution. It's not like it is 341 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: what it is. It's like any kind of biological process. 342 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't dictate morality and it doesn't dictate value for humans. So, 343 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: for example, uh, there are frogs who will eat their 344 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: own babies because it makes a lot of sense in 345 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: terms of evolution. If they have a surplus of young, 346 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: they will eat some of these babies and it increases 347 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: the chance of their own survival to make even more babies. 348 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: But certainly eating babies doesn't mean morality, even if it's 349 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: a successful evolutionary strategy for some animals. We cannot learn 350 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: morality from baby eating frogs. And when you think about like, oh, well, 351 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: this frog is being unethical, Well, cannot frog really be 352 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: ethical or not ethical? I don't know. I don't really 353 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: think so. But humans can. So we are very distinct 354 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: and we have developed a sense of morality and senses 355 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: of value, and I guess just like have experience beyond 356 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: that of something like a frog. So we've also evolved, 357 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: not just on the individual body level, but on a 358 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: societal level. Our our culture, and our society is constantly evolving. 359 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: And what all of this means is that we get 360 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: to break free from some of the chains of natural 361 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: selection and evolution. Like we get to recognize the value 362 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: in a single human lifetime and human experience just existing 363 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: and enjoying life, being conscious, having thoughts, you know, loving people, 364 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: loving things. You know that all I think has intrinsic value. Uh, 365 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: it's not something like, oh, well is this good or 366 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: not for evolution, It doesn't really matter because we just 367 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: just being able to be alive and be exist and 368 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: be aware and you know, have fulfillment and enjoyment is 369 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: to me, because I'm making this decision with my own flaw, 370 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: Sophie is to me a really valuable thing. It's even 371 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: to me valuable for animals. Like if I have a 372 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: pet dog, you know, she's spayed, she's not going to 373 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: have any puppies, but her life is so important to me. 374 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: You know she's and I hope that she's very happy too, 375 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 1: and she has a really happy life, so you know 376 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: she she's Uh, even if that's not you know, good 377 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: quote evolutionarily speaking, it's a good thing for the world 378 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: in terms of um keeping dogs happy and and and 379 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: safe and and it's good for me because she makes 380 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: me happy. So you get to define what is meaningful 381 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: to you, like what is winning at life for you? 382 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: Is that there's no reason that that means producing offspring. 383 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't need to have any intrinsic value to you. 384 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: It could like, if you want to have children, because 385 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: you want to have children, you know that that will 386 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: have meaning to you. And if you don't want to 387 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: have children, that doesn't need to have any meaning to you. 388 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: And there's no there's no objective winning are losing anyways, 389 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 1: it means something different for everyone. Think of one of 390 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: the huge champions of evolutions. So some of the animals 391 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: who are just absolutely winning at evolution are things like mosquitoes. 392 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: There are countless, countless mosquitoes, they do really well and 393 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: there's very little chance of them going extinct, whereas there's 394 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: like you know, pandas, where there are very few of 395 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: them and there's a much higher chance that they're going extinct. 396 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: But would you value a mosquito over a panda? Uh? 397 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: And even though mosquitoes are you know, quote unquote winning 398 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: at evolution, would you want the life of a mosquito 399 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: the experience the short, very blood soaked the life of 400 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: a mosquito, even though they're having hundreds of successful offspring. 401 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: Probably not, because mosquitoes don't really have any much depth 402 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: to their life experience. I apologize mosquitoes if I'm wrong, 403 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: if you if you have a very full and rich life, 404 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: but I don't person mol see it's so uh. In 405 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: my opinion, winning at evolution is meaningless outside of the 406 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: context of just explaining like why you see some kind 407 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: of evolutionary trait, because evolution just has no intrinsic value. 408 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't have any intrinsic meaning. And where in this 409 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: unique position as very highly intelligent animals, humans um to 410 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: be able to decide what meaning we want in life. 411 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: So I think that it's you know, I've said all 412 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: this in a way to like not directly answer your question, 413 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: because I think that it is up to you whether 414 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: you want to donate your eggs, whether that would be 415 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: something that would make you happy or not. Um. I 416 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: think that in terms of uh, some people see children 417 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: having children, like biological children, as a way to kind 418 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: of achieve immortality, maybe like, oh, well, I'm passing on, 419 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: you know, my genes and achieving some immortality. But I 420 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: kind of I'm not sure that's much different from just 421 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: making an impact on the world and giving people memories 422 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: of you, positive memories doing things that that have a 423 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: lasting positive impact on people. That's that kind of cultural 424 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: evolution that if you do something good in the world, 425 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be a big thing, just 426 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: making other people happy. That has that lasts, you know, 427 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: much longer than your lifetime or even the people that 428 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: directly knew you their lifetimes, because it has this domino 429 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: effect of like when you're when you're a good positive person, um, 430 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, you affect the people around you, and then 431 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: they'll affect the people around you. So I think that 432 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: there's really no answer to like, well, you know, should 433 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: I have children or should I have some kind of 434 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: like biological legacy. I just don't think. Uh. I think 435 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: that is, you know, entirely up to you whether you 436 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: want to do that or not, and it's you have 437 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 1: to find that value from within um of of what 438 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: you want. But there's no there's no objective answer to 439 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: that question. There's no universal answer to that question. Um 440 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: you know. So that's uh, that's me getting really philosophical. 441 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: Sorry about that, everyone, I don't know. I am not 442 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: a philosopher, so really kind of punching above my weight there, 443 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: But I hope that is helpful in some way. Um So, now, 444 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: I want to take it down to a much less 445 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: existential question, seemingly very simple question. Alright, so here is 446 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: the email. So this is probably a dumb question, but 447 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: our zebras white with black stripes or black with white stripes? 448 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: Thank you Roberts. So this is actually not a dumb 449 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,239 Speaker 1: question at all. It's a very interesting question. I know 450 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a little bit of a cliche, but it's 451 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: really really interesting because it makes you examine like some 452 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: of our preconceived notions about evolution and and traits and 453 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: animals and how they actually work. So zebras have black 454 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: skin under their fur, and they have white and black 455 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: alternating patches of fur. So in the simplest form, that 456 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: is like what anatomically is going on, So you could 457 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: say an answer to that question, they are black skinned 458 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: with black and white stripes. And in terms of their development, 459 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: embryonic zebras develop stripes in the wombs, so they start 460 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: out striping. So the question of like, well, wait, you 461 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: know what comes first, like the white fur the black fur, 462 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: isn't such an easy question. Um. And in terms of like, 463 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: in terms of animal stripes, we have this idea that 464 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: like they have an underlying fur color and then stripes 465 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: over that fur color. But really that's not how coloration 466 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: and animals work because they it's not like they get 467 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: painted over like they don't Like you don't have like 468 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: a baby zebra or an embryonic zebra and then some 469 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: process that like paints over them with the stripes. Actually 470 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: side note, that is what happens with eggs, So not 471 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: the actual chicks, but the eggs. Like if you've ever 472 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: seen egg shells that have like splotches on them, that's 473 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: because as they come out of the chickens reproductive track, 474 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: there are glands in that that like spray them with color. 475 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: So that's really interesting, but typically that is not how colorations, 476 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: pigment melanin works in like animal skin and fur or scales. Um. So, 477 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: all right, but I'm still going to try to answer 478 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: this question definitively. So if you look into their genetics 479 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: and evolutionary history, uh, like, can you find out if 480 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: they started out as white furd or blackford and add 481 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: added the stripes later? Um? Or like what's going on 482 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: at the genetic level, Uh, you can get closer to 483 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: the answers. So genetic abnormalities and zebras can result in 484 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: nearly all black zebra with small white patches, And this 485 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: seems to indicate that the zebra's default for color is 486 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: black and the white fur results from an inhibition of 487 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: melanin in stripes. So if the inhibition gene isn't working, 488 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: it defaults to black. All right. Well, that's that's an 489 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: interesting part of it, um. But what about the evolutionary 490 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: history of zebras. Uh. The closest living relatives of zebras 491 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: are horses and donkeys, but the quaga was an even 492 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: closer relative before going extinct. The quago was possibly a 493 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: subspecies of the zebra until it was killed off by 494 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: European invaders in South Africa. It diverged from the plains 495 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: zebra species a couple hundred thousand years ago. So quaggas 496 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: had a diverse range of coats, but they typically were 497 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: a primarily dark brown color with thin white stripes and 498 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: a white belly. Sometimes they would be dark brown with 499 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: both white and blackish brown stripes. So to me, us 500 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: is further evidence that the striping is a result of 501 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: a gene shutting off the production of the melanin. So 502 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: you can have a band of brown and white or 503 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: black and white or even brown black and white. But 504 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: the common denominator is how much those genes are turning 505 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: off the melanin production. Uh. So, in my humble, uh 506 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: non zebra expert opinion, they are black with white stripes. 507 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: But if you have a different idea, right into me, 508 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: argue with me. Um, you know, yell at me on Twitter, 509 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: and you can do that by finding me online at 510 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: Creature feature Pod on Instagram, at Creature feet pot on Twitter. 511 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: That's f e a T not f teeth head is 512 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: something very different. You can write to me, uh Creature 513 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: feature Pod at gmail dot com, and you can write 514 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: in your questions and hate. When I do another one 515 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: of these, maybe I'll answered on air. Uh. And thank 516 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: you again to everyone who wrote in with your wonderful questions. 517 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this listening to me answer everything 518 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: from existential questions about existence uh to zebra stripes. Thanks 519 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: to the Space Plastics for their super awesome song ex Alumina. 520 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: Creature features a production of I Heart Radio. For more 521 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: podcasts like the one you just heard, visit the I 522 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app Apple podcast wheor Hey guess what where? 523 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: Have you listen to your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday,