WEBVTT - Broken Systems 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.720 This episode is sponsored by FX's Fleischman Is in Trouble, 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:09.399 starring Jesse Eisenberg, Claire Danes, Lizzie Kaplan, and Adam Brodie. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.639 The strama tells the story of recently divorced Toby Fleischmann, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.320 who dies into the world of app based dating with 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:17.360 the kind of success he never had in his youth. 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:21.280 Then his ex wife disappears, leaving him with their two 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.880 children and no hint of her return effectus. Fleischman Is 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:43.040 in Trouble, streaming November seventeenth only on Hulu. Good morning, peeps, 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.520 and welcome to wikate FP Daily with Meet your Girl 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:51.400 Danielle Moody recording Not So Live from La Folks. I 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.400 want to give a round up of the bullshit that 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.440 has transpired this week. You know, I spoke about this 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.920 yesterday and I said that they are a myriad of 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:07.480 people who want us to be satisfied with incremental change, 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:12.240 who are making pronouncements about what in fact is inside 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.920 of the Build Back Better Plan and the fact that 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:22.280 it was dramatically cut in half because of two senators 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:28.760 who are so in the pocket of corporations and the 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:34.600 wealthy that they don't see the needs of three hundred 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.520 and thirty some odd million Americans that they don't care 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.680 about the needs of three hundred and thirty some one 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.960 million Americans. I think that one of the greatest tragedies 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:50.080 of the last I don't know, eighteen nineteen months at 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:54.880 this point of COVID is not just the deaths. That 0:01:55.080 --> 0:02:01.640 obviously is a major tragedy. Over seven hundred thousand Americans 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:07.400 have perished. The other greatest tragedy that I see unfolding 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:14.040 right now is our government's inability to use what we 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:24.600 learned about broken systems, broken agencies and use this chance, 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:31.639 this opportunity under the Biden administration to create massive progressive 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.080 overhaul of our country. If there was nothing else that 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:42.760 we learned during this global health pandemic, it's that our 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.040 schools don't have the right infrastructure, That there are some 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:52.560 schools that have had hvacts from decades ago. Right, that 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:57.920 our children across this country we're breathing in polluted air 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:04.320 before COVID, Right that there were no air purifiers. That's 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:10.560 just the basics. That there were children across the country 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:17.840 who we knew didn't have access to broadband, right making 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.040 it narrowly impossible to be able to keep up with 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:28.320 their counterparts who may be better off economically. We knew 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:36.160 that that childcare costs in this country are out of control, 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:41.480 forcing parents and caregivers to have to make critical decisions 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:43.720 between whether or not they're going to be able to 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.480 pay for a mortgage or their rent and also pay 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.720 for childcare, which in some states like the one that 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.280 I live in in New York and the one that 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.960 I'm currently in right now in California, have some of 0:03:55.960 --> 0:04:00.240 the highest childcare costs in the country, where you are 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:05.680 looking at maybe three four five thousand dollars a month 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:12.040 right if you have more than one child that requires care. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.880 That we've had no real investment in universal pre K 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:25.480 and all of these things that the pandemic illuminated for us. 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.719 What are some of the other things that we've seen, 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:37.919 The historic amount of storms, the intensity of those storms, fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.919 and how they cost billions upon billions of dollars in repair. 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:54.880 And so to not look at these really critical times 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.000 that we are living in and not look at where 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:03.479 the opportunity lies for us to improve upon broken systems, 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.679 and instead decide that either we're just going to continue 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:11.000 to kick the can down the road or be happy 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.920 with the crumbs that we are given. You know, I 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.000 was never one of those people that believed that government 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.800 was broken, right, obviously, because I've spent my entire professional 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:28.760 career working in and around the federal government, right, whether 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.120 I was working on Capitol Hill or as a lobbyist, 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:39.360 or as a advisor on policy, or working in media 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:45.440 speaking on the issues that are plaguing our country. But 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.880 I always felt like, well, well, given more information, with 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:56.080 more people galvanized, right, more citizens paying attention and demanding better, 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:00.200 that we would get better. Right. So that was the 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.800 whole premise behind starting woke AF in the first place. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.440 It was like, well, if more people had been conscious 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.560 right to the bullshit in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.599 then maybe we wouldn't have gotten a Donald Trump. Maybe 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.840 trumps m wouldn't have been able to take hold and 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.279 spread like a cancer across this country in the way 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.600 that it has. But the reality is is that when 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:30.240 I sit back and I look around now, and I 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.960 think about how it has been ten months since the 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:43.760 Biden administration entered into power, and I keep asking everyone 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.680 that I come into contact with from various walks of life. 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:53.200 Do you feel better? There is not a person that 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:56.800 I am coming across that says yes, I do. So 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:02.640 what does that mean about people thoughts and feelings about 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:08.359 how our federal government is working for us. It means 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:18.400 that more people are feeling let down, disappointed, angry with 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.280 the ways in which they're seeing this political theater play 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.760 out around this legislation and others. I mean, it was 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.480 just over the summer when Corey Booker was holding a 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:36.080 microphone saying, well, after eight months of quote unquote good 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:41.200 faith negotiations with Republican Tim Scott, we're not getting any 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:46.160 police reform, regardless of the fact that as a country 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:51.880 and as the world watch George Floyd have his last breath, 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.800 hath his life squeezed out of his body by a 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:01.920 police officer. And before George Floyd, and after George Floyd, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.520 too many black and brown people have been killed by police. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:12.520 But over the summer, our political leaders walked in front 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:19.440 of cameras and threw up their hands. Then it has 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.920 been the same situation with voting rights, which in my opinion, 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.320 should have been the first thing outside of the rollout 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:33.160 for vaccines, should have been the first thing big initiative 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.840 that this administration was taking on following the death of 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:43.560 fucking John Lewis. It is not enough to put people's 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:48.040 names on legislation that you have no fucking intention or 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:54.800 strategy to pass. Oh, the George Floyd Policing Act, Yeah, 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.840 and it's as dead as George Floyd is. The John 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:04.360 Lewis Voting Rights Act, wonderful marker, but that's dead in 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:10.280 the water too. But at the same time that two 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:17.800 are these important pieces of legislation that would begin to 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:22.040 reshape and reimagine broken systems. Then they want to turn 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.240 around and pass Juneteenth legislation and then at the same 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:31.400 time make Juneteenth a federal holiday. But guess what, you 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.800 can't teach it and damn near half of the schools 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:38.920 in this country because they now have bands on actual, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:46.400 real and inclusive and comprehensive American history otherwise known as 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:53.439 critical race theory. So when I look around right now 0:09:55.440 --> 0:10:00.320 and I'm sitting back and I'm thinking to myself, is 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:06.720 government broken? Like? Are we just done? Because we realize 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:11.360 just how ineffective our political leaders are because they are 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:16.440 so bought and sold by the people who fill their 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:23.400 political coffers. If citizens United had never happened, Right if 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:30.360 that bullshit Supreme Court didn't decide that we could just 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.560 have an influx of money into our political system. Do 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.840 you think that Kirsten's cinema would have found herself across 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:42.800 the pond when major negotiations would happen because her constituents 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.959 eyes would have been on her and what she was doing. 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.880 But she's not beholden to them, so she could care less. 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.920 Minnie saw her presiding over the Senate in a denim jacket, 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.120 flipping her hair like she's some teenage girl trying to 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.959 get the attention of some boy or girl in their class. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:10.440 That's how serious she looked. So without deep accountability, and 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:15.640 dare I say actual fear of what your constituents will do, 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:22.959 namely voting you out, then what are you actually doing? 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.880 Where is the where is your get up and go? 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:31.480 You have none? I told you yesterday there's not one 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:37.400 billionaire in West Virginia. But right now Joe Mansion doesn't 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:43.080 want a billionaire tax because it's the billionaires that feed 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:49.920 his energy company that are his shareholders. Forty years, this 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:55.600 man has been representing a very destitute state in this 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:02.880 country for forty years which tells you a couple of things. Either, 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.000 the people are so desperate and so unable to put 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.000 food on their table to go and pick up and 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.440 fill prescription drug medications because they don't have enough money. 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:18.080 They're so busy and underwater with their day to day 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:23.240 that they don't have the attention to wonder what is 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.640 my senator actually fucking doing for me? And I think 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.679 on both Democrats and Republican sides, that that's the way 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:36.720 they fucking want it. Keep people in despair, keep them 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.800 in dysfunction, so that then they're not paying enough attention 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:47.920 to know that you are literally picking their pockets, that 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:52.840 you are literally doing nothing that you took an oath 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.000 to do. I said yesterday it is time, I believe, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.440 for us to move away from our focus on the 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.000 presidency and on Congress, not to not vote. That's not 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.960 what I'm saying, but I'm saying the fact is is 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:15.920 that the federal level ain't where things are at. It 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:17.720 is at the state and local level. And you know 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:22.880 who knows that fucking Republicans who are running for everything 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.520 from dog catcher to school board to city council to 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:32.960 state representatives because they know that they have no policies 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:34.839 that anybody gives a shit about, and as a matter 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.840 of fact, they know they don't need them, because when 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.400 you're the party of no, no one is looking to 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.920 you to offer a damn thing. They're just looking for 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.600 you to roll back the clock so that you can 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:50.360 feel better about your racism, so that you can feel 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.280 accepted in taking off your hood and letting people know 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:57.520 how you really feel. But the question that I continue 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.440 to ask is, if we know that to be true, 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.079 those of us who have the ability to be tapped in, 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:11.240 then why aren't we messaging that. How is it that 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.720 our government can be so ineffectual and these people hold 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:23.520 jobs for fucking decades and do absolutely nothing. It's why 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.480 I ask myself at the end of every week and 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.880 midweek and at the beginning of every week, what am 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.040 I doing? Because I want to actually be of service? 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:37.840 Because unlike our representatives right now, federal representatives, I want 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.600 to be of service. I want to help people be better, 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:47.800 do better, think clearer, understand their power and wield it 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.960 in a strategic manner. I try and inform as many 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.840 people as possible. This is one of the reasons why 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.520 we're going to be doing full video of the show, 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.680 but then offering the audio for free because I said, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.360 I need to reach more people. I need to do 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.520 what I can do in my little corner of the universe, 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.520 because our democracy is slipping away, and it's not even slipping, 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:20.480 it's being pushed over a cliff. And the people that 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.120 we call on to represent us and be our voices 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.080 are the ones that are silent right now, with their 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:31.560 hands in their pockets, looking everywhere but at us. And 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.120 it's time that we start looking at each other and 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:39.320 ourselves and saying what is next? If this is broken 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:47.160 and we can't reimagine where we go with this current system, 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:52.560 then what do we do with it? Coming up next, friends, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:58.040 is my conversation with a brilliant, brilliant Nigerian British artist, DeCicco. 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:03.080 We have a deep conversation about his understanding of blackness 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.600 and how he uses his understanding and his depth of 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.840 knowledge and his Nigerian roots to create some of the 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.760 most beautiful pieces I've ever seen. And if you are 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:17.760 on Instagram, look up a Sicco asi Ko and look 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.880 at his work. As we get into this conversation about art, 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:28.480 about beauty, about blackness, and about purpose, folks, I am 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.880 really excited to welcome to woke f for the very 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:38.800 first time, an artist that I came upon on Instagram 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.400 when I decided that I was no longer interested in 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.920 just following politicos and no longer interested in misery and 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.960 wanted to fill my feed with beauty. A Sicco is 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:56.080 an incredible artist that encapsulates the beauty of blackness and 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.920 the ordination and the spirituality and the royalty. That's what 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.439 those are all of the words, uh that come to 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.639 my mind when I see your work. And so I 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.520 just want to start off with one appreciating you because 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.159 in a time when still regardless of what part of 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.520 the Black diaspora you come from, you still are not 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.560 inundated with black beauty. You still are not inundated with 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:29.359 black success um and and excellence and innovation um in 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.119 a way that we should be in the in the 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.880 twenty first century. So I want to first ask you, 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.160 you know, about being about the label artist and what 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.960 that what that means to you and why you've chosen 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:49.360 um the subjects that you have. Okay, thank you so much, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.800 Daniel for allowing to talk. It's always good to talk 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.439 about the work and always a share ideas. So for 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:06.720 me things, so my stories are strange. One. I so 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.000 I didn't start out as an artist, and that's an 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.560 interesting word artist. I think I'm a human being navigating 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.080 is the life and navigating who he is and how 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:23.359 he fits in the world. And then art is my 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:27.040 form of expression, my way to talk to the world, 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.520 my way to talk about the things that inspire me, 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.000 but also talk about the things that kissed me off 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:39.320 and talk about the things that I love, but then 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.080 the things that I want to shout about. And so 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.639 artists kind of my way to express and to talk 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.840 about those things. So the word artist has kind of 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:57.880 come with that whole. With that whole, I guess paradise. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.159 But I didn't start up as an artist. That I 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.520 started out. You know, I've got a Nigerian parents, So 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:09.520 I started out as a I have a master's degree 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:15.040 in biotraumatics and I'm a chemist, um, you know, trained 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:19.400 in university and I worked in the pharmacy pop industry 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.920 for you know, quite a couple of years and then. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.879 But I was always interested in art and it was 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.720 something that fed my soul. You know. My dad was 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.760 a collector and he had worked all around, and I 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.280 was also interested in European arts. So a lot of 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.360 these things kind of fed me. And then I think 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.840 when it was time and when my work had developed, 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.760 I took that progression to become I guess the word 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:49.119 is full time artist. So it's been an interesting journey, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.480 but I find for me it's a way to talk 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.840 about the things that I want to talk about. It 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.960 it's my journey understanding blackness. You know, I didn't just 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.600 all the world blackness till I moved to the UK. 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:07.600 It was in the UK that I found out I 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.680 was black. In Nigeria, where I lived till I was 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.560 about sixteen seventeen, I didn't think I was black. I 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.600 just thought I was I was just a guy. And 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.240 then I came to kind of found out was black. 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.480 And then so when I grew older, those other things 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.920 I started to talk about through my work to celebrate 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:33.119 my blackness, but also to um talk about the things 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:41.080 that was there in your journey, which is so interesting, right, 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.919 I think that we all enter into I'm a child 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.159 of immigrants to the United States myself. My family is 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:54.320 from Jamaica, and you know, there is always this idea 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:58.240 that there's only certain track that you can go into, right, 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.480 because your family wants you to have great success, and 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:07.600 great success means finance, financial stability. Right. What was the 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.600 tipping point moment or was there a tipping point moment 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.240 for you when you are you have your masters and 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:19.119 you're working in pharmaceuticals and a chemist and you're just like, so, 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.080 I don't want to do this anymore, or this is 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:27.199 not allowing me to really express my full self. I 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.040 still feel like I'm shelving a part of myself. Was 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.320 there a moment or a series of moments that led 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.000 to you saying this is what this is who I 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.920 want to be or how I want to express myself 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:45.720 full time? So that's an interesting question. There was no 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:50.720 definitive moment. There wasn't some sort of Eureka explosion about 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.959 this is the time. And I think, you know, as 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:59.320 as we get older, we have to be smart about 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:04.320 the about the sort of steps we take. And for me, 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:06.679 it was actually a gradual thing. And I was in 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.720 no rush because I actually did it once where I 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.760 did quit everything and I said, you know, I'm going 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:14.720 to be a full time market to quit my job, 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:19.520 and you know, I'd saved some money, and it didn't. 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.760 But I know why I didn't work because I wasn't 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:27.040 the artist that I am now. I wasn't fully leaned 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.199 into who I'm supposed to be as a person. I 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:34.560 don't fully activated that part of myself. And it was 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:37.480 when I started, when I went through a self discovery 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.200 journey of knowing that actually I just shouldn't be making 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.240 the work for other people. I should be making work 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.600 about my journey. And then and in some ways that 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.960 was a transition from being a photographer to being an 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:56.480 artist where the work has more meaning and it has 0:22:56.560 --> 0:23:00.880 more debt to it. So there wasn't that definitive moments, 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.840 and for some people there is, but I didn't have 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:09.040 the luxury of that. You know, I'm married, and you 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.879 know I can't just there are two people involved in 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:16.360 that equation, so I can't just jump everything and just say, hey, 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:18.800 you know what, We're going to go and live on 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:23.520 somebody's couch right now and be a what what's the word, uh, 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:30.719 struggling artist And the Nigerian narrative. Nigerians don't do struggling, 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:34.800 you know, um not have any money in their profits 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.520 kind of art that it doesn't work in our narratives, 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:39.200 and those are some of the things I picked from 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:42.800 my parents, as much as it was challenging to express 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.520 to them, this is what I do. I've learned a 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.560 lot of things about how to take the family, of 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:52.879 how to be responsible, of how to build a life. 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.240 And I learned that those bits from them. So I'm 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:01.040 a balance between both of those worlds and I've learned 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.080 to navigate them well over the past couple of years. 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.960 What was it about moving to the UK that had 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:15.280 you really begin to understand your blackness in the perspective 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:19.480 of other people's view of you? Right? Because you understood 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:23.840 yourself in one context living in Nigeria being around people 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.840 who who look like you, right, who are in all 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:31.399 sorts of positions of power, right from prime ministers and 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:35.240 presidents and you know, nurses and doctors and all of 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:40.320 these different things. How did you understand then your black 0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:43.200 or begin to understand your blackness through what I'm assuming 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.440 is the white gaze, right is through white people's is 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:50.000 through white people's eyes as a post through your own. 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:56.400 How did that come about? So this is so late. 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:04.320 So first, living in Nigeria, there's a lot of imports 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:09.320 of Western culture. So from TVs to film, so you 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:12.240 in some way do you start to see a reflection 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:17.560 of what other people feel black people are. Um, you know, 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:23.840 so the narrative is a gang banger or or or 0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:27.760 drug dealer or or or he's he's the person that's 0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:31.920 always going to get killed before you know, the film 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.920 gets anyway, before we get halfway through the film, you 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:38.840 get killed, which is interesting because black people have this 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:43.080 amazing self preservation. So if there was a real life situation, 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:46.000 the black people are definitely not going to get killed first. 0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:48.720 So I don't understand how the how it goes like 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:54.359 that film. Um, but so I started to see through 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:58.480 this influx or Western culture, you start to get an 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.760 idea of how you're going to be view But it 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:03.919 didn't prepare me for when I actually moved to be 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.719 kid because I moved at about sixteen seventeen. But also 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:13.080 in some subconscious way, I don't think I appreciate it 0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:16.640 being black. I just kind of went, you know, I'm 0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:20.399 just a human being, just I'm kids, I'm living my life. 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:24.680 But it was because of the stuff I'd been fed. 0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:27.960 So I moved to the UK, and then there was 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:32.159 this whole thing of how people approached me, how people 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:35.480 pronounced my name, how they thought that. You know, we 0:26:35.680 --> 0:26:39.800 swung from tree in Africa and we didn't have any technology. 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:44.000 And this is always the interesting one. We speak a 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:49.120 really good influition for a Nigerian, for an African. Oh, 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.879 I've heard that one like a thousand and many times. 0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:55.840 It's not even a thing. It's actually not a thing. 0:26:56.840 --> 0:27:01.240 And sometimes I will cheekily reply, um, we speak better 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:04.560 English than you. You know how to use consonance, verbs 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:08.239 and proverbs well in a sentence. I'll respond like that 0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:12.639 in a sort of cheeky way. Um. So you start 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:17.119 to get an idea that you are different because of 0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:23.040 the color of the skin. And I didn't fully appreciate 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:25.520 that until I started to get as I started to 0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:27.840 get older. So I lived in Brixton when I first 0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:33.120 lived to the UK. Brixton is likened to Brooklyn. It's 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:36.800 an area that we redeveloped. A lot of black people, 0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:40.520 you know from the Caribbean, lived in Brixton, but it's 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:45.160 gone through a gentification and now that's not casting. Um. 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:48.920 So I lived it, and I was surrounded by a few, 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.320 quite a few black people. But once you step out 0:27:52.320 --> 0:27:56.199 of Brixton. We start to see how people view you 0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:59.960 and how they how they you know, Bucher your name 0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:03.840 and not in a I don't understand how to pronouncing him, 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:07.320 but in a sort of derogatory way, right, I don't. 0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:11.280 I'm not even gonna trouble myself to and extend myself 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:16.600 because you're not deserving of even the proper pronunciation. Oh yes, exactly. 0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:20.879 And and you see these sorts of things are there's 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:24.760 a certain sort of superiority. Um, you know, I've come 0:28:24.840 --> 0:28:27.640 to live in your country, I come to school here. 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:29.920 I'm a British citident. You know I was born here 0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:32.320 when I was a kid. But I've come to school 0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:35.400 here and you know i'd got back. Um, but there's 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:39.560 a certain level of superiority to how people view you, 0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:42.960 and that comes across in the way they speak. So 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:45.240 all of these things were things that I kind of 0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:49.360 took in and absorbed. And um, there's a certain level 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:53.320 of being a Nigerian where I'll push back and say no, 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.560 you can't talk to me like that, or you can't 0:28:56.720 --> 0:29:00.440 you can't behave like behave like that to me. But 0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:05.920 the challenges there is still a taken on with human 0:29:05.960 --> 0:29:10.480 beings and they will still be There's levels of build 0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:14.640 up and in some ways can cause trauma. And those 0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:17.400 are the sorts of things that affect you know, me 0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:19.800 as a person and affect a lot of you know, 0:29:19.960 --> 0:29:24.280 Nigerians or Black people or Black British people who live here. Um, 0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:29.880 so that that whole thing had kind of been simmering 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:33.400 under the surface. So for me, when I started to create, 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:37.120 I found an avenue to speak about black people in 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:44.040 positive life. More so women. M I my narrative has 0:29:44.160 --> 0:29:47.880 been you know, my mother was quite a strong, powerful 0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:53.800