1 00:00:15,411 --> 00:00:15,891 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:19,610 --> 00:00:22,851 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, before we get into this episode, I wanted 3 00:00:22,851 --> 00:00:24,410 Speaker 2: to let you know that you can listen to the 4 00:00:24,451 --> 00:00:28,011 Speaker 2: full season of The Chinatownstang add free right now. 5 00:00:28,371 --> 00:00:29,970 Speaker 1: By signing up for Pushkin Plus. 6 00:00:30,451 --> 00:00:34,811 Speaker 2: You'll also get bonus episodes, full audiobooks, and other true 7 00:00:34,811 --> 00:00:38,771 Speaker 2: crime binges from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. Find 8 00:00:38,771 --> 00:00:42,891 Speaker 2: Pushkin Plus on the Chinatownstaning Show page on Apple Podcasts. 9 00:00:43,171 --> 00:00:49,651 Speaker 2: We're at pushkin dot fm, slash plus. Previously on The Chinatownsting, 10 00:00:51,851 --> 00:00:52,290 Speaker 2: I was. 11 00:00:52,251 --> 00:00:57,651 Speaker 3: Talking through a customs agent in California who says, hey, well, 12 00:00:57,891 --> 00:01:00,891 Speaker 3: just got three shipments of heroin. Do you guys want 13 00:01:00,891 --> 00:01:01,291 Speaker 3: the case? 14 00:01:01,891 --> 00:01:04,450 Speaker 4: It was like the first time we've ever seen anything 15 00:01:04,571 --> 00:01:04,851 Speaker 4: like that. 16 00:01:04,971 --> 00:01:07,771 Speaker 1: Really, Basically, you're stay at home moms. We're picking up 17 00:01:07,851 --> 00:01:10,291 Speaker 1: these these law chamansa heroin. 18 00:01:11,090 --> 00:01:13,971 Speaker 4: We don't have that kind of money. So to have 19 00:01:14,091 --> 00:01:15,691 Speaker 4: that kind of money, you take a chance. 20 00:01:20,211 --> 00:01:24,211 Speaker 2: Federal authorities arrested Tina Wong on March first, nineteen eighty eight. 21 00:01:24,771 --> 00:01:27,531 Speaker 2: She was accused of receiving packages of heroin in the mail. 22 00:01:28,531 --> 00:01:31,451 Speaker 2: They took Tina to a jail in Long Island, miles 23 00:01:31,491 --> 00:01:34,411 Speaker 2: away from her home outside of Manhattan's Chinatown. 24 00:01:35,771 --> 00:01:37,971 Speaker 1: And at this moment, the gravity must be hitting you. 25 00:01:39,731 --> 00:01:43,171 Speaker 4: Yeah, especially when they tell you twenty five years to life, 26 00:01:43,251 --> 00:01:45,971 Speaker 4: which I didn't think was fair. But I don't make 27 00:01:46,011 --> 00:01:47,011 Speaker 4: the rules. 28 00:01:47,451 --> 00:01:50,811 Speaker 2: Tina was put in a cell. She doesn't remember much else. 29 00:01:51,851 --> 00:01:52,491 Speaker 1: Are you crying? 30 00:01:54,251 --> 00:01:58,771 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was mad, not at yourself, not at 31 00:01:58,811 --> 00:01:59,451 Speaker 2: the rule. 32 00:02:01,051 --> 00:02:02,371 Speaker 1: Well, the whole thing everything. 33 00:02:05,411 --> 00:02:07,651 Speaker 2: The next day, Tina was taken in a van with 34 00:02:07,651 --> 00:02:10,811 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of other prisoners the US Attorney's office 35 00:02:11,011 --> 00:02:14,931 Speaker 2: in Brooklyn. Agents from the Drug Enforcement Agency met her 36 00:02:14,930 --> 00:02:17,611 Speaker 2: out front, put her in handcuffs and took her into 37 00:02:17,611 --> 00:02:21,531 Speaker 2: a small office. They handcuffed her to a chair, and 38 00:02:21,571 --> 00:02:25,011 Speaker 2: she found herself face to face with Beryl Howell, the 39 00:02:25,091 --> 00:02:28,210 Speaker 2: lead prosecutor in the case, the person who could argue 40 00:02:28,331 --> 00:02:31,611 Speaker 2: that Tina should be put away for decades for heroin smuggling. 41 00:02:32,491 --> 00:02:36,531 Speaker 4: She's got this look, you know, like and no expression. 42 00:02:37,651 --> 00:02:39,931 Speaker 4: I thought she didn't like us, but you know, I 43 00:02:40,011 --> 00:02:44,011 Speaker 4: know she had a job to do, so I'm not 44 00:02:44,050 --> 00:02:47,931 Speaker 4: gonna be hating on her for that. But I just 45 00:02:47,971 --> 00:02:51,490 Speaker 4: thought that she really wanted us to go away for 46 00:02:51,531 --> 00:02:52,451 Speaker 4: a long time. 47 00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:57,891 Speaker 2: And at the same time that Tina was sizing up Beryl, 48 00:02:58,411 --> 00:03:00,530 Speaker 2: Beryl was sizing up Tina. 49 00:03:01,131 --> 00:03:04,011 Speaker 5: You know, to find out like, who was she, what 50 00:03:04,131 --> 00:03:06,371 Speaker 5: was her background, what was her how smart was she, 51 00:03:06,571 --> 00:03:10,491 Speaker 5: what was her educational background? How did she get this business? 52 00:03:10,851 --> 00:03:13,411 Speaker 5: And to see how much of her story all hung 53 00:03:13,451 --> 00:03:17,011 Speaker 5: together and made sense on details before we even started 54 00:03:17,050 --> 00:03:20,851 Speaker 5: talking about any evidence she might have about other people. 55 00:03:23,491 --> 00:03:25,090 Speaker 1: They were both about the same age. 56 00:03:25,251 --> 00:03:27,731 Speaker 2: Beryl was thirty one at the time Tina was thirty, 57 00:03:28,251 --> 00:03:32,011 Speaker 2: but the similarities pretty much ended there. Tina grew up 58 00:03:32,011 --> 00:03:34,691 Speaker 2: on the outskirts of Chinatown, the same apartment where she 59 00:03:34,771 --> 00:03:38,931 Speaker 2: still lived. She never finished college, neither did her parents. 60 00:03:39,371 --> 00:03:43,531 Speaker 2: Beryl's mom nearly completed a PhD in biology. Her dad 61 00:03:43,651 --> 00:03:45,851 Speaker 2: had been a colonel in the army, and she had 62 00:03:45,851 --> 00:03:48,691 Speaker 2: grown up all over the US and abroad in Germany 63 00:03:48,891 --> 00:03:52,731 Speaker 2: and the Netherlands. She had a law degree from Columbia University. 64 00:03:53,451 --> 00:03:56,451 Speaker 2: So yes, she and Tina came from very different worlds 65 00:03:56,731 --> 00:04:00,451 Speaker 2: and met under not the best of circumstances, but each 66 00:04:00,571 --> 00:04:05,371 Speaker 2: needed the other person's trust. Recently, I showed up at 67 00:04:05,371 --> 00:04:08,251 Speaker 2: Tina's apartment to get an interview. I told her the 68 00:04:08,251 --> 00:04:11,931 Speaker 2: truth that Barrel Howell is my boyfriend's mom. I was 69 00:04:11,931 --> 00:04:13,891 Speaker 2: worried she'd close the door as soon as I said that. 70 00:04:14,691 --> 00:04:17,171 Speaker 2: But now I think that's actually why she let me in. 71 00:04:18,211 --> 00:04:19,531 Speaker 4: Beryl, have you seen her. 72 00:04:20,171 --> 00:04:24,051 Speaker 2: I hope she retired, because yeah, she's retired from chief 73 00:04:24,171 --> 00:04:25,891 Speaker 2: judge them. But then it's like you just become like 74 00:04:25,931 --> 00:04:32,210 Speaker 2: a regular judge. That Tina sounds lighthearted now, but she's 75 00:04:32,251 --> 00:04:35,091 Speaker 2: still keeping tabs on what Beryl is up to because 76 00:04:35,131 --> 00:04:38,771 Speaker 2: Beryl once held Tina's future in her hands, and in 77 00:04:38,811 --> 00:04:43,211 Speaker 2: a way, Tina held Beryl's future in her hands as well. 78 00:04:45,971 --> 00:04:48,851 Speaker 2: I am Lydia Jean Kott and this is the China 79 00:04:48,891 --> 00:05:04,890 Speaker 2: Townsting Episode two Onion Head. Beryl is now a federal 80 00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:08,611 Speaker 2: judge in Washington, d C. She's overseen a lot of 81 00:05:08,690 --> 00:05:12,731 Speaker 2: high profile cases. When was a defamation case brought against 82 00:05:12,731 --> 00:05:16,131 Speaker 2: former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. The case was 83 00:05:16,171 --> 00:05:18,651 Speaker 2: brought by Georgia election workers, and they won. 84 00:05:19,611 --> 00:05:22,171 Speaker 6: It was a rejection of what Judge Beryl Howell called 85 00:05:22,211 --> 00:05:27,330 Speaker 6: Giuliani's quote significantly tardy request for a bench trial and 86 00:05:27,411 --> 00:05:29,570 Speaker 6: one of his latest art givens to dodge a jury 87 00:05:29,571 --> 00:05:32,171 Speaker 6: that Howell called simply nonsense. 88 00:05:33,091 --> 00:05:36,531 Speaker 2: Also, Beryl's overseeing dozens of cases related to the January 89 00:05:36,571 --> 00:05:37,690 Speaker 2: sixth Capitol riot. 90 00:05:38,171 --> 00:05:41,891 Speaker 7: Following President Trump's sweeping clemency for January sixth, defendants, federal 91 00:05:41,931 --> 00:05:46,211 Speaker 7: judges who presided over cases are letting their discontent be heard. 92 00:05:46,331 --> 00:05:49,731 Speaker 7: US District Judge Beryl Howell rebuke the President's claim of injustice, 93 00:05:49,731 --> 00:05:52,331 Speaker 7: writing quote this quote cannot let stand the revisionist myth 94 00:05:52,531 --> 00:05:54,411 Speaker 7: relate in this presidential pronouncement. 95 00:05:55,611 --> 00:05:58,971 Speaker 2: And she ruled on Donald Trump's revenge on certain law firms. 96 00:05:59,411 --> 00:06:02,731 Speaker 8: The federal judge tonight has just permanently blocked the president's 97 00:06:02,731 --> 00:06:05,891 Speaker 8: executive order that targeted a law firm which represented Hillary 98 00:06:05,891 --> 00:06:09,131 Speaker 8: Clinton in twenty sixteen, and the ruling from Judge Beryl 99 00:06:09,171 --> 00:06:10,251 Speaker 8: Howe is scathing. 100 00:06:11,531 --> 00:06:13,731 Speaker 2: So yes, this is the person that I know on 101 00:06:13,771 --> 00:06:16,611 Speaker 2: a first name basis as Beryl. When I asked her 102 00:06:16,611 --> 00:06:19,371 Speaker 2: if I could do a story about her earliest major case, 103 00:06:19,811 --> 00:06:23,291 Speaker 2: I was pretty confident she would say no. Judges rarely 104 00:06:23,331 --> 00:06:26,291 Speaker 2: give interviews, and Beryl has been under more pressure and 105 00:06:26,331 --> 00:06:30,251 Speaker 2: scrutiny than ever before. Not only did Beryl agree to 106 00:06:30,291 --> 00:06:32,851 Speaker 2: be interviewed, she told me that she'd saved her notes 107 00:06:32,851 --> 00:06:38,291 Speaker 2: from the Chinatown case. What about legoes? 108 00:06:38,331 --> 00:06:39,811 Speaker 5: Oh my god, we have so many legos. 109 00:06:40,211 --> 00:06:43,131 Speaker 2: She my boyfriend and I searched all over her house 110 00:06:43,171 --> 00:06:43,851 Speaker 2: for them. 111 00:06:44,651 --> 00:06:47,851 Speaker 1: The more under meet these things. Oh my god, I 112 00:06:47,891 --> 00:06:48,851 Speaker 1: can't believe we found this. 113 00:06:51,171 --> 00:06:53,851 Speaker 2: Before she let me have the goods, Beryl first went 114 00:06:53,891 --> 00:06:55,690 Speaker 2: through all of the material to make sure it was 115 00:06:55,731 --> 00:06:58,451 Speaker 2: all things that the public's allowed to see. She's a 116 00:06:58,491 --> 00:07:03,251 Speaker 2: stickler for the law. My co reporter Shiru Wang's also 117 00:07:03,291 --> 00:07:05,971 Speaker 2: a lawyer. She hasn't had a chance to meet Beryl, 118 00:07:06,091 --> 00:07:08,371 Speaker 2: but one day we sat down and talked about her 119 00:07:08,731 --> 00:07:10,891 Speaker 2: about how it feels to see Beryl through the eyes 120 00:07:10,931 --> 00:07:13,651 Speaker 2: of the people she once encountered as a federal prosecutor, 121 00:07:14,091 --> 00:07:15,731 Speaker 2: people like Tina won't. 122 00:07:16,371 --> 00:07:20,451 Speaker 9: Does anything that Tina described about Beryl match what your 123 00:07:20,891 --> 00:07:23,971 Speaker 9: personal perception or understanding of Beryl, or like, does it 124 00:07:24,091 --> 00:07:26,771 Speaker 9: reflect anything that you have known about Beryl at that point? 125 00:07:27,531 --> 00:07:30,491 Speaker 2: Well, Tina talked about what it was like the first 126 00:07:30,491 --> 00:07:32,731 Speaker 2: time that she met Beryl, and she said she was 127 00:07:32,771 --> 00:07:38,131 Speaker 2: expressionless and seemed kind of scary. I've definitely experienced being 128 00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:42,451 Speaker 2: very intimidated by her. When my boyfriend was little and they, 129 00:07:42,611 --> 00:07:44,251 Speaker 2: you know, if they were in trouble, it was it 130 00:07:44,291 --> 00:07:45,451 Speaker 2: was their dad that they would go to. 131 00:07:45,691 --> 00:07:46,771 Speaker 9: What does barrel look like? 132 00:07:47,251 --> 00:07:48,051 Speaker 1: She's blonde. 133 00:07:48,771 --> 00:07:52,411 Speaker 2: She has very expressive eyebrows, so if she's feeling skeptical 134 00:07:52,451 --> 00:07:53,811 Speaker 2: of you, her eyebrows. 135 00:07:53,371 --> 00:07:55,131 Speaker 1: Go very very high. 136 00:07:55,251 --> 00:07:57,811 Speaker 2: There is once this tweet by a court reporter. I 137 00:07:57,851 --> 00:08:01,371 Speaker 2: think that said the way that Beryl raised her eyebrows, 138 00:08:01,691 --> 00:08:03,731 Speaker 2: any kid would feel like they have to clean their 139 00:08:03,851 --> 00:08:05,530 Speaker 2: room if they saw that face. 140 00:08:05,571 --> 00:08:07,091 Speaker 9: Oh my god, that's funny. 141 00:08:07,531 --> 00:08:09,291 Speaker 2: So yeah, I've known Beryl since I was an a 142 00:08:09,411 --> 00:08:12,091 Speaker 2: elementary school. I grew up down the street from her, 143 00:08:13,131 --> 00:08:15,491 Speaker 2: but I really got to know her after I graduated 144 00:08:15,491 --> 00:08:16,291 Speaker 2: from college. 145 00:08:16,731 --> 00:08:19,211 Speaker 1: By that point, she was a federal judge. 146 00:08:19,531 --> 00:08:22,411 Speaker 2: And you know, when I started talking to her about 147 00:08:22,411 --> 00:08:25,171 Speaker 2: it over time, it was really cool to hear her 148 00:08:25,251 --> 00:08:27,771 Speaker 2: talk about the law. It felt like she was pulling 149 00:08:27,811 --> 00:08:30,931 Speaker 2: back a curtain and really showing me how the law works. 150 00:08:31,011 --> 00:08:33,211 Speaker 2: And that's actually kind of why I decided I wanted 151 00:08:33,211 --> 00:08:35,691 Speaker 2: to be a reporter who reports about the law because 152 00:08:35,690 --> 00:08:37,810 Speaker 2: I wanted to share what I learned. 153 00:08:37,851 --> 00:08:41,891 Speaker 9: Basically, does she talk about work naturally at all of 154 00:08:41,930 --> 00:08:45,370 Speaker 9: these family friends gathering or she's more like, if you 155 00:08:45,450 --> 00:08:47,691 Speaker 9: have questions, come to me out answer that. 156 00:08:48,290 --> 00:08:51,131 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot about work that she can't 157 00:08:51,131 --> 00:08:53,971 Speaker 2: talk about. But she's passionate about the law, and she 158 00:08:54,011 --> 00:08:54,931 Speaker 2: does talk about it. 159 00:08:54,930 --> 00:08:57,170 Speaker 9: It comes up all the time, including this case. 160 00:08:57,731 --> 00:08:58,290 Speaker 1: Definitely. 161 00:08:58,970 --> 00:09:01,130 Speaker 2: I think when I first heard about this case, and 162 00:09:01,170 --> 00:09:05,450 Speaker 2: I think it was an evening after dinner, and it 163 00:09:05,450 --> 00:09:07,651 Speaker 2: was one of those stories where everyone else had already 164 00:09:07,651 --> 00:09:11,410 Speaker 2: heard it, but they were really happy to hear it again, 165 00:09:11,530 --> 00:09:13,410 Speaker 2: kind of like a family legend where you love to 166 00:09:13,450 --> 00:09:14,651 Speaker 2: tell it over and over again. 167 00:09:15,410 --> 00:09:18,050 Speaker 9: By the time she got involved in this case, where 168 00:09:18,210 --> 00:09:20,011 Speaker 9: was Berrow in her career. 169 00:09:20,410 --> 00:09:24,491 Speaker 2: So she had actually just become a federal prosecutor. I 170 00:09:24,491 --> 00:09:27,050 Speaker 2: think she had had the job for about six months. Okay, 171 00:09:27,170 --> 00:09:28,530 Speaker 2: you know, you know, as a lawyer, it's a very 172 00:09:28,570 --> 00:09:30,851 Speaker 2: big deal job. It was kind of a dream job 173 00:09:30,891 --> 00:09:31,170 Speaker 2: for her. 174 00:09:32,050 --> 00:09:36,011 Speaker 5: I felt like I was living a story every single 175 00:09:36,050 --> 00:09:39,651 Speaker 5: day with every single investigation, and you know, it was 176 00:09:39,731 --> 00:09:44,810 Speaker 5: all still fairly new to me and still very exciting 177 00:09:44,851 --> 00:09:45,050 Speaker 5: to me. 178 00:09:46,491 --> 00:09:50,410 Speaker 2: It was in the spring of nineteen eighty eight, and 179 00:09:50,690 --> 00:09:53,370 Speaker 2: if you think about the eighties, you know, most people 180 00:09:53,491 --> 00:09:56,491 Speaker 2: you think about the crack epidemic, but heroin was a 181 00:09:56,491 --> 00:09:58,851 Speaker 2: really big deal at the time too, especially in New York. 182 00:09:59,131 --> 00:10:01,491 Speaker 2: I think one out of forty people in New York 183 00:10:01,530 --> 00:10:02,610 Speaker 2: were addicted to heroin. 184 00:10:03,450 --> 00:10:04,491 Speaker 9: That's crazy ratio. 185 00:10:04,651 --> 00:10:05,851 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually really a lot. 186 00:10:06,210 --> 00:10:06,530 Speaker 9: Yeah. 187 00:10:07,050 --> 00:10:10,051 Speaker 2: You know, for a long time, heroin was coming into 188 00:10:10,170 --> 00:10:15,131 Speaker 2: New York through the mafia, but then in the mid eighties, 189 00:10:15,570 --> 00:10:18,771 Speaker 2: the criminal underworld was going through a shift. 190 00:10:19,491 --> 00:10:22,371 Speaker 10: Federal law enforcement officials are celebrating what they considered to 191 00:10:22,371 --> 00:10:25,011 Speaker 10: be a major victory in their war against organized crime. 192 00:10:25,371 --> 00:10:28,011 Speaker 10: A former head of the Sicilian mafia and sixteen other 193 00:10:28,050 --> 00:10:31,771 Speaker 10: reputed organized crime figures convicted yesterday running one of the 194 00:10:31,771 --> 00:10:34,170 Speaker 10: biggest heroin smuggling rings ever uncovered. 195 00:10:34,530 --> 00:10:37,891 Speaker 11: The government says the operation was masterminded by Sicilians and 196 00:10:37,930 --> 00:10:40,691 Speaker 11: brought one billion, six hundred and fifty million dollars worth 197 00:10:40,690 --> 00:10:43,851 Speaker 11: of heroin into the United States over the past five years. 198 00:10:44,210 --> 00:10:48,210 Speaker 11: The alleged American kingpin was Salvator Toto Catalano, linked by 199 00:10:48,210 --> 00:10:50,970 Speaker 11: the government to organized crime and owner of this bakery 200 00:10:51,011 --> 00:10:54,410 Speaker 11: and pizza restaurant in Queens. In fact, so many of 201 00:10:54,410 --> 00:10:56,971 Speaker 11: the dealings in this case took place in pizza parlor's 202 00:10:57,131 --> 00:10:59,731 Speaker 11: that federal officials have dubbed it the Pizza Connection. 203 00:11:00,731 --> 00:11:03,930 Speaker 2: Federal law enforcement agents realized that heroin was coming into 204 00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:06,331 Speaker 2: the States through these pizza. 205 00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:09,891 Speaker 9: Parlors, Unite sent pizzas. 206 00:11:09,611 --> 00:11:12,251 Speaker 2: I don't actually know what type of pizza parlors they were, 207 00:11:12,290 --> 00:11:15,651 Speaker 2: but yeah, it was a huge bust and I think 208 00:11:15,970 --> 00:11:21,330 Speaker 2: like twenty one mobsters were arrested. But after the pizza connection, 209 00:11:21,930 --> 00:11:25,091 Speaker 2: believe it or not, heroin was still making its way 210 00:11:25,131 --> 00:11:28,410 Speaker 2: into New York City. That's when the Senate started to 211 00:11:28,450 --> 00:11:31,170 Speaker 2: have these hearings and investigations. 212 00:11:31,330 --> 00:11:35,170 Speaker 12: Asian criminal groups are emerging on the American landscape in 213 00:11:35,251 --> 00:11:40,530 Speaker 12: the sense they're becoming more powerful, may become an alternative 214 00:11:40,611 --> 00:11:46,690 Speaker 12: to traditional organized crime. Law enforcement authorities, particularly federal cannot 215 00:11:46,731 --> 00:11:50,730 Speaker 12: afford to wait until these organizations have fully emerged. 216 00:11:51,690 --> 00:11:55,691 Speaker 2: So yeah, in nineteen eighty three, Chinese dealers accounted for 217 00:11:55,731 --> 00:11:58,210 Speaker 2: a three percent of the heroin that was coming into 218 00:11:58,251 --> 00:12:01,730 Speaker 2: the city, and then three years later, according to these hearings, 219 00:12:01,891 --> 00:12:04,651 Speaker 2: they counted for a twenty five percent, and. 220 00:12:04,690 --> 00:12:07,011 Speaker 9: That's a big jump, and the number was going up. 221 00:12:07,050 --> 00:12:09,771 Speaker 2: It was getting, you know, higher and higher. Of course, 222 00:12:09,771 --> 00:12:13,530 Speaker 2: when Beryl started as a federal prosecutor, she was briefed 223 00:12:13,570 --> 00:12:14,450 Speaker 2: and knew about this. 224 00:12:15,251 --> 00:12:18,731 Speaker 5: Was I aware of Chinatown gangs, absolutely, But did I 225 00:12:18,731 --> 00:12:25,131 Speaker 5: immediately think that these boxes being shipped through JFK were 226 00:12:25,970 --> 00:12:29,491 Speaker 5: related to Chinatown gangs that wasn't the first thing on 227 00:12:29,530 --> 00:12:29,930 Speaker 5: my mind. 228 00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:31,090 Speaker 1: I didn't really know. 229 00:12:31,330 --> 00:12:33,011 Speaker 2: You generally had no idea what was going to happen 230 00:12:33,011 --> 00:12:36,050 Speaker 2: where these boxes, where this control delivery was going to 231 00:12:36,090 --> 00:12:36,371 Speaker 2: lead you. 232 00:12:36,450 --> 00:12:37,370 Speaker 1: Yeah, not at all. 233 00:12:38,450 --> 00:12:42,170 Speaker 9: What was Barrow's impression about Chinatown before she took on 234 00:12:42,290 --> 00:12:42,690 Speaker 9: his case. 235 00:12:43,851 --> 00:12:47,610 Speaker 2: So Beryl lived in Chelsea, which is not that far 236 00:12:47,651 --> 00:12:51,050 Speaker 2: from Chinatown. It was a place that she walked through 237 00:12:51,090 --> 00:12:54,570 Speaker 2: a lot. But through working on this case, Beryl also 238 00:12:54,611 --> 00:12:57,891 Speaker 2: started to see that Chinatown was a more complicated place 239 00:12:57,891 --> 00:13:01,611 Speaker 2: than she knew, and that also what she was asking 240 00:13:01,851 --> 00:13:04,410 Speaker 2: from these women was really a lot. 241 00:13:06,330 --> 00:13:10,971 Speaker 5: They gave me an insight into all the you know, 242 00:13:11,011 --> 00:13:18,131 Speaker 5: sort of the complexities and loyalties and pressures that were 243 00:13:18,491 --> 00:13:23,611 Speaker 5: all unseen to a mere visitor from Chelsea going to 244 00:13:23,731 --> 00:13:26,810 Speaker 5: Chinatown not that far but world's away. 245 00:13:28,731 --> 00:13:30,651 Speaker 2: So it was clear to Beryl that she had to 246 00:13:30,731 --> 00:13:33,651 Speaker 2: understand more about Chinatown and the pressures her witnesses were 247 00:13:33,731 --> 00:13:36,611 Speaker 2: under if she wanted to get any useful information from 248 00:13:36,611 --> 00:13:40,050 Speaker 2: them about those mail packages and who was really in charge. 249 00:13:41,891 --> 00:13:42,690 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. 250 00:13:55,170 --> 00:13:58,371 Speaker 2: Beryl Howell's goal as a federal prosecutor was not to 251 00:13:58,410 --> 00:14:01,051 Speaker 2: put a bunch of low level drug smugglers in prison. 252 00:14:01,851 --> 00:14:04,251 Speaker 2: She wanted to make an actual difference by building a 253 00:14:04,290 --> 00:14:06,330 Speaker 2: case against whoever was at the top of the scheme, 254 00:14:06,891 --> 00:14:09,290 Speaker 2: whoever was bringing millions of dollars worth of drugs and 255 00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:10,810 Speaker 2: New York through Chinatown. 256 00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:13,090 Speaker 1: To do that, she needed. 257 00:14:12,851 --> 00:14:15,690 Speaker 2: The lower level people like Tina Long to tell her 258 00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:18,530 Speaker 2: everything they knew. But as I look through Beryl's notes, 259 00:14:18,570 --> 00:14:20,891 Speaker 2: it seemed like she was getting one word answers and 260 00:14:20,931 --> 00:14:24,370 Speaker 2: a lot of evasion. Clearly, something was scaring these women 261 00:14:24,371 --> 00:14:29,291 Speaker 2: more than prison, and that's something was in Chinatown. So 262 00:14:29,371 --> 00:14:31,811 Speaker 2: my producer and I did what we imagine Beryl might 263 00:14:31,851 --> 00:14:36,131 Speaker 2: have done. We headed downtown to do some investigating. We 264 00:14:36,171 --> 00:14:38,251 Speaker 2: found three people who could talk to us about how 265 00:14:38,291 --> 00:14:41,291 Speaker 2: criminal networks in Chinatown worked back in the nineteen eighties. 266 00:14:41,931 --> 00:14:44,531 Speaker 2: When these women agreed to receive packages of heroin in 267 00:14:44,571 --> 00:14:45,210 Speaker 2: the mail. 268 00:14:45,491 --> 00:14:47,691 Speaker 13: Henry walked around the shave with two white girls. 269 00:14:48,251 --> 00:14:50,651 Speaker 2: Henry Tann grew up in Chinatown and is now an author. 270 00:14:51,051 --> 00:14:54,451 Speaker 2: He's written five detective novels, all set here, and a 271 00:14:54,451 --> 00:14:56,970 Speaker 2: little reluctantly, he's agreed to give us a tour of 272 00:14:57,011 --> 00:14:57,650 Speaker 2: the neighborhood. 273 00:14:57,851 --> 00:15:00,811 Speaker 13: The building looks better than it did then. We lived 274 00:15:00,811 --> 00:15:05,891 Speaker 13: there on the dirt floor. There was a railroad flat. 275 00:15:06,411 --> 00:15:08,890 Speaker 13: My brother and I had beds in the middle of department. 276 00:15:09,931 --> 00:15:13,970 Speaker 13: We were here for five years and maybe six. 277 00:15:15,371 --> 00:15:18,131 Speaker 2: We're on Pell Street. It's a street so short it's 278 00:15:18,131 --> 00:15:19,051 Speaker 2: almost an alleyway. 279 00:15:20,051 --> 00:15:22,971 Speaker 13: During the holidays, we'll be crowded. Hip Sing would come 280 00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:25,731 Speaker 13: out with their lion dancers and the street will be 281 00:15:25,811 --> 00:15:27,250 Speaker 13: packed and it'll be fireworks. 282 00:15:27,931 --> 00:15:31,651 Speaker 2: The Hip Singh is a community organization. The name roughly 283 00:15:31,691 --> 00:15:35,771 Speaker 2: means cooperating for success. They're buildings on the opposite end 284 00:15:35,811 --> 00:15:37,931 Speaker 2: of the street from the apartment that Henry grew up in. 285 00:15:38,771 --> 00:15:41,211 Speaker 13: Further down the block on the right side, you see 286 00:15:41,491 --> 00:15:47,291 Speaker 13: the golden doors and the official Hip Sing Organization. 287 00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:54,370 Speaker 2: In the eighteen hundreds, organizations called Tongs first formed in 288 00:15:54,451 --> 00:15:59,691 Speaker 2: Chinatown's across the US. They supported and protected residents. Henry 289 00:15:59,691 --> 00:16:02,411 Speaker 2: writes about the Tongs in his first novel, Chinatown Beat. 290 00:16:02,891 --> 00:16:05,971 Speaker 2: The Hip Singh was considered the working class Hong, and 291 00:16:06,051 --> 00:16:09,211 Speaker 2: around the corner on Maud Street, the onl Tong was 292 00:16:09,210 --> 00:16:13,091 Speaker 2: for merchants. Henry slightly changes their names in his book. 293 00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:19,491 Speaker 13: The One was a businessman's benevolent association. The number one 294 00:16:19,571 --> 00:16:23,371 Speaker 13: high roller in America a coast to coast secret society 295 00:16:23,491 --> 00:16:27,171 Speaker 13: no working man was able to join. They sneered at 296 00:16:27,210 --> 00:16:31,491 Speaker 13: the ship jumpers, the waiters and dishwashers, the laundrymen who 297 00:16:31,571 --> 00:16:33,571 Speaker 13: joined their arrival hip chains. 298 00:16:35,611 --> 00:16:37,931 Speaker 2: By the time Henry was growing up, lots of people 299 00:16:38,011 --> 00:16:40,691 Speaker 2: were ping dues to one tong or another. They were 300 00:16:40,691 --> 00:16:42,611 Speaker 2: doing this in exchange for the kind of help that 301 00:16:42,651 --> 00:16:44,571 Speaker 2: they couldn't get or didn't know how to get from 302 00:16:44,571 --> 00:16:46,931 Speaker 2: the US government way back. 303 00:16:47,651 --> 00:16:51,090 Speaker 13: They will receive the mail for their members because a 304 00:16:51,090 --> 00:16:53,811 Speaker 13: lot of their members who lived in buildings didn't have mailboxes. 305 00:16:54,491 --> 00:16:58,210 Speaker 13: Because when people came here, you know, they were strangers 306 00:16:58,210 --> 00:17:01,370 Speaker 13: in a foreign land, and they didn't speak the language, 307 00:17:01,491 --> 00:17:04,130 Speaker 13: they didn't read English, and so this was the one 308 00:17:04,131 --> 00:17:07,171 Speaker 13: place they could go to for any kind of assistance. 309 00:17:08,411 --> 00:17:10,331 Speaker 2: And the reason that the hip saying matters so much 310 00:17:10,330 --> 00:17:13,651 Speaker 2: to our case is because the organization had another building, 311 00:17:13,971 --> 00:17:17,090 Speaker 2: one right across the street we're now standing in front of. 312 00:17:17,131 --> 00:17:20,291 Speaker 1: It doesn't make you nervous to be here? Should we 313 00:17:20,371 --> 00:17:21,131 Speaker 1: go someplace else? 314 00:17:21,331 --> 00:17:26,251 Speaker 13: No, Well, I'm the one that looks shady, you guys. Obviously, 315 00:17:26,331 --> 00:17:29,291 Speaker 13: I'm being an interview only saying good things. 316 00:17:31,651 --> 00:17:35,371 Speaker 2: Henry's directed that last comment to a security camera that's pointing. 317 00:17:35,051 --> 00:17:38,531 Speaker 1: Straight at us. He's joking. I think. 318 00:17:40,411 --> 00:17:43,451 Speaker 2: In the nineteen eighties this was a gambling parlor. Henry 319 00:17:43,451 --> 00:17:45,091 Speaker 2: tells us that when he was a kid, he would 320 00:17:45,091 --> 00:17:48,171 Speaker 2: watch men head down the basement stairs here it was 321 00:17:48,251 --> 00:17:51,971 Speaker 2: off limits to children. One day, when he was finally 322 00:17:52,011 --> 00:17:54,211 Speaker 2: old enough, he followed those men inside. 323 00:17:55,171 --> 00:17:59,251 Speaker 13: You step into a cloud of cigarette smoke. You could 324 00:17:59,291 --> 00:18:04,131 Speaker 13: barely breathe, and all these men, mostly men, smoking and gambling, 325 00:18:04,131 --> 00:18:08,451 Speaker 13: and they would play thirteen cards, Subsam Jam, seven cards, 326 00:18:08,571 --> 00:18:11,691 Speaker 13: chuck Jam, majong here and there. 327 00:18:12,051 --> 00:18:15,371 Speaker 1: What was the vibe? Was the vibe lighthearted? Was it serious? 328 00:18:15,811 --> 00:18:16,931 Speaker 1: How did it feel down there? 329 00:18:17,011 --> 00:18:19,090 Speaker 13: Well, it was all of that. I mean, you know, 330 00:18:19,131 --> 00:18:22,211 Speaker 13: if you're winning, you know you're giddy. If you're losing, 331 00:18:22,211 --> 00:18:26,330 Speaker 13: your grumpy. But twice on these men they have with 332 00:18:26,451 --> 00:18:31,771 Speaker 13: this very guttural way of like being loud, and because 333 00:18:31,771 --> 00:18:34,611 Speaker 13: of the dialect, sounds like they're always cursing, even when 334 00:18:34,651 --> 00:18:35,531 Speaker 13: they're not cursing. 335 00:18:36,691 --> 00:18:39,171 Speaker 2: Henry already knew by then that he wanted to be 336 00:18:39,211 --> 00:18:41,611 Speaker 2: a writer, and he knew he wanted to write about 337 00:18:41,651 --> 00:18:42,131 Speaker 2: this world. 338 00:18:43,011 --> 00:18:45,131 Speaker 13: You can't whip out a pad and pencil and start 339 00:18:45,131 --> 00:18:49,891 Speaker 13: taking notes. So I would go in the bathroom and 340 00:18:49,931 --> 00:18:51,931 Speaker 13: I would roll up my sleeves and I would write 341 00:18:52,011 --> 00:18:56,090 Speaker 13: things on my arm up and down my own and 342 00:18:56,131 --> 00:18:57,891 Speaker 13: then when I get home and I wake up the 343 00:18:57,931 --> 00:18:59,971 Speaker 13: next morning, I would remember. 344 00:19:01,731 --> 00:19:04,331 Speaker 2: This gambling parlor was operated by one of the most 345 00:19:04,371 --> 00:19:08,531 Speaker 2: powerful gangs in Chinatown, the Flying Dragons. It was also 346 00:19:08,571 --> 00:19:12,091 Speaker 2: their main hangout, kind of like their HQ, and this 347 00:19:12,171 --> 00:19:15,891 Speaker 2: gang would come to matter a lot to Baryl. Part 348 00:19:15,931 --> 00:19:18,890 Speaker 2: of the reason the Flying Dragons were so powerful is 349 00:19:18,891 --> 00:19:22,611 Speaker 2: because they reported to the Hip sing that influential community 350 00:19:22,691 --> 00:19:26,171 Speaker 2: organization with the Golden Pagoda across the street. 351 00:19:26,491 --> 00:19:28,851 Speaker 13: They had their glorious building where they took care of 352 00:19:29,051 --> 00:19:33,011 Speaker 13: their business and where they funded the gang kids. 353 00:19:34,291 --> 00:19:35,691 Speaker 3: They kept that out of sight. 354 00:19:37,531 --> 00:19:41,691 Speaker 2: Because while the Tongs helped families, they also exploited them. 355 00:19:42,051 --> 00:19:44,651 Speaker 2: In the nineteen eighties, the leaders of the Hip Singh 356 00:19:44,771 --> 00:19:48,171 Speaker 2: didn't just earn money from collecting member dues. They also 357 00:19:48,211 --> 00:19:51,571 Speaker 2: earned money from this gambling parlor and other gambling parlors 358 00:19:51,651 --> 00:19:54,811 Speaker 2: all over Chinatown. To help with the seedier parts of 359 00:19:54,851 --> 00:20:03,651 Speaker 2: their operations, they recruited teenagers. Teenagers like Mike Moy. 360 00:20:01,971 --> 00:20:06,451 Speaker 14: Because I grew up being bullied, not being bullied by 361 00:20:06,891 --> 00:20:11,131 Speaker 14: fellow Asians. I was being bullied by the whites, blacks, Hispanics. 362 00:20:10,971 --> 00:20:11,931 Speaker 1: Was physically beat up. 363 00:20:12,371 --> 00:20:14,531 Speaker 15: Oh, everything, everything, everything. 364 00:20:16,011 --> 00:20:18,890 Speaker 2: Mike moy was also born in Chinatown. He says that 365 00:20:18,971 --> 00:20:21,650 Speaker 2: many tongues were connected to youth gangs. It was kind 366 00:20:21,691 --> 00:20:22,931 Speaker 2: of like an open secret. 367 00:20:23,531 --> 00:20:27,691 Speaker 14: The Hipsyng Tongue Association they affiliated with the Flying Dragons, 368 00:20:27,971 --> 00:20:31,411 Speaker 14: the Online was affiliated with the gold Shadows, and then 369 00:20:31,451 --> 00:20:36,371 Speaker 14: you have the Somezing Association, the dun Lawn Associations associated 370 00:20:36,371 --> 00:20:38,611 Speaker 14: with the dun Lawn Gang. So these were three major 371 00:20:38,611 --> 00:20:43,811 Speaker 14: gangs in Chinatown during that time, from the seventies into 372 00:20:44,131 --> 00:20:46,971 Speaker 14: the mid eighties. These were the Flying Dragons, the Gold Shadows, 373 00:20:46,971 --> 00:20:47,531 Speaker 14: and the dun Lag. 374 00:20:48,651 --> 00:20:51,891 Speaker 2: Like many people we've spoken with, Mike points out something important, 375 00:20:52,931 --> 00:20:55,330 Speaker 2: the whole gang system of Chinatown did not arise in 376 00:20:55,331 --> 00:20:56,251 Speaker 2: a vacuum. 377 00:20:56,691 --> 00:20:59,531 Speaker 14: If I had to summarize why these gangs exist, I 378 00:20:59,571 --> 00:21:04,931 Speaker 14: can summarize it in one word. Racism. That is the core. 379 00:21:05,171 --> 00:21:08,931 Speaker 14: The root of the issue is racism. Okay, what does 380 00:21:09,011 --> 00:21:11,211 Speaker 14: racism it created these gangs. 381 00:21:13,411 --> 00:21:15,931 Speaker 2: When Mike was fifteen, he was approached by an older 382 00:21:15,971 --> 00:21:18,371 Speaker 2: gang member in a pool hall. The man had seen 383 00:21:18,411 --> 00:21:21,291 Speaker 2: him there before. He had been watching him, and he 384 00:21:21,371 --> 00:21:24,771 Speaker 2: knew exactly what to say to a lost Chinese American teenager. 385 00:21:25,731 --> 00:21:29,731 Speaker 14: Bullying was it was pretty bad, you know which. It 386 00:21:29,771 --> 00:21:34,131 Speaker 14: was constantly every day, it was something new, and I'm. 387 00:21:33,931 --> 00:21:36,691 Speaker 15: Just sick and tired of it. So that hit a 388 00:21:36,771 --> 00:21:37,291 Speaker 15: chord with me. 389 00:21:37,451 --> 00:21:41,131 Speaker 14: And since I joined a gang, I can tell you 390 00:21:41,171 --> 00:21:42,571 Speaker 14: I never got bullied of it again. 391 00:21:43,251 --> 00:21:44,850 Speaker 1: How did people know not to billy you? 392 00:21:45,691 --> 00:21:48,171 Speaker 14: It's the way you carry yourself. I mean, once you 393 00:21:48,251 --> 00:21:51,771 Speaker 14: join a gang, you feel like you have the whole 394 00:21:51,811 --> 00:21:53,291 Speaker 14: gang behind you. 395 00:21:53,291 --> 00:21:55,130 Speaker 15: You think you're invincible. 396 00:21:57,811 --> 00:22:00,451 Speaker 2: Mike didn't join the Flying Dragons. He joined a gang 397 00:22:00,491 --> 00:22:03,491 Speaker 2: called the Fox Chang. But all the gangs worked pretty similarly, 398 00:22:03,571 --> 00:22:06,931 Speaker 2: he says. When teens joined them, they often moved in 399 00:22:07,131 --> 00:22:08,651 Speaker 2: and lived with other gang members. 400 00:22:09,451 --> 00:22:12,051 Speaker 14: They supply us with the safe house. When we move 401 00:22:12,091 --> 00:22:14,771 Speaker 14: from safe house to safe house, we can live five 402 00:22:14,811 --> 00:22:20,850 Speaker 14: to ten fifteen per apartment. We don't go home to 403 00:22:20,931 --> 00:22:25,330 Speaker 14: mom and dad. So in a way, there's a special 404 00:22:25,371 --> 00:22:29,011 Speaker 14: bond there. It's like family, a family. 405 00:22:28,771 --> 00:22:31,171 Speaker 2: Whose members were loyal to each other no matter what. 406 00:22:31,971 --> 00:22:35,691 Speaker 15: It's different in Chinatown because that's all you have. Who's 407 00:22:35,691 --> 00:22:37,971 Speaker 15: going to back you up, who's going to who's going 408 00:22:38,051 --> 00:22:38,411 Speaker 15: to help you. 409 00:22:38,611 --> 00:22:40,610 Speaker 14: It is your fellow brothers who's going to help you. 410 00:22:41,011 --> 00:22:44,731 Speaker 14: I mean, nobody did anything for us back in those days. 411 00:22:45,451 --> 00:22:47,971 Speaker 2: But to stay in this family, teams like Mike had 412 00:22:47,971 --> 00:22:50,330 Speaker 2: to fulfill us some pretty severe requirements. 413 00:22:51,331 --> 00:22:54,411 Speaker 14: They recruit the young kids to do the shooting because 414 00:22:54,931 --> 00:22:57,411 Speaker 14: it's a slap on the risk for them. They get 415 00:22:57,411 --> 00:22:59,331 Speaker 14: caught with a gun, it's a slap on the risk. 416 00:22:59,651 --> 00:23:04,051 Speaker 14: So anyone who's doing all the shootings, most of the 417 00:23:04,091 --> 00:23:09,331 Speaker 14: shootings are under the age of fifteen or maybe even sixteen, 418 00:23:09,531 --> 00:23:15,131 Speaker 14: so they recruit them to carry the guns. 419 00:23:17,011 --> 00:23:20,131 Speaker 2: Through Mike, I met another former gang member named Peter Chin. 420 00:23:20,891 --> 00:23:24,251 Speaker 2: He actually joined a gang at thirteen. That was shortly 421 00:23:24,251 --> 00:23:27,051 Speaker 2: after his family immigrated to the US from the outskirts 422 00:23:27,051 --> 00:23:27,611 Speaker 2: of Hong Kong. 423 00:23:28,411 --> 00:23:30,851 Speaker 3: Oh was the youngest guy. That's why how my name 424 00:23:30,891 --> 00:23:31,371 Speaker 3: came about. 425 00:23:31,451 --> 00:23:31,611 Speaker 15: Kid. 426 00:23:32,011 --> 00:23:33,891 Speaker 3: They called me Kit. They kid, come here, come on, 427 00:23:33,971 --> 00:23:35,611 Speaker 3: come with kid, So they called me Kid Jai. 428 00:23:35,771 --> 00:23:36,771 Speaker 12: Yeah. 429 00:23:37,131 --> 00:23:38,971 Speaker 2: Kid Jai went on to become the leader of the 430 00:23:39,011 --> 00:23:41,891 Speaker 2: Ghost Shadows, the main rival to the Flying Dragons. 431 00:23:42,251 --> 00:23:43,811 Speaker 1: The gang headquartered on Pell Street. 432 00:23:44,771 --> 00:23:47,291 Speaker 2: Kijai wound up serving twenty years in prison under the 433 00:23:47,331 --> 00:23:50,651 Speaker 2: Rico Act. Later, he co wrote a book about his experiences. 434 00:23:50,931 --> 00:23:54,291 Speaker 2: It's called In the Ghost Shadows. Pretty Much all the 435 00:23:54,331 --> 00:23:57,891 Speaker 2: gangsters in his book have nicknames. There's Potato spha rib 436 00:23:58,651 --> 00:24:02,291 Speaker 2: I asked him and his co writer Everett Dumourier about that. 437 00:24:03,051 --> 00:24:05,251 Speaker 1: Were there people who hated their nicknames? 438 00:24:05,571 --> 00:24:06,771 Speaker 3: Who hated their their names? 439 00:24:06,891 --> 00:24:07,131 Speaker 1: Yeah? 440 00:24:07,331 --> 00:24:14,011 Speaker 3: Thank you book, Spinky, Yeah, he goes, no way it. 441 00:24:14,051 --> 00:24:15,291 Speaker 3: She is gonna be proud of that. 442 00:24:15,731 --> 00:24:18,051 Speaker 1: Can you can you change your nickname? Or are you 443 00:24:18,091 --> 00:24:18,691 Speaker 1: stuck with it? 444 00:24:18,851 --> 00:24:19,051 Speaker 12: No? 445 00:24:19,211 --> 00:24:22,171 Speaker 3: You can't change one, just stuck. You stuck with it. 446 00:24:23,171 --> 00:24:23,371 Speaker 1: Now. 447 00:24:23,531 --> 00:24:26,411 Speaker 2: Kidji can laugh about this time, but the truth is 448 00:24:26,851 --> 00:24:30,651 Speaker 2: he barely survived it. As a teenager, he remembers one 449 00:24:30,691 --> 00:24:33,211 Speaker 2: time being in a nightclub when an ex cop from 450 00:24:33,251 --> 00:24:36,171 Speaker 2: Hong Kong showed up. That man had been involved in 451 00:24:36,171 --> 00:24:39,531 Speaker 2: a dispute with the gang. He walked in and just 452 00:24:39,531 --> 00:24:40,291 Speaker 2: started shooting. 453 00:24:41,051 --> 00:24:43,771 Speaker 3: He turned about, he saw me. He pointed a lot 454 00:24:43,771 --> 00:24:47,771 Speaker 3: for it, then hesitated for a second. I'm not gonna shoot. 455 00:24:47,491 --> 00:24:49,851 Speaker 15: You, okay. He left. 456 00:24:50,291 --> 00:24:52,811 Speaker 2: After the X cop left, Kidji looked around the bar, 457 00:24:53,011 --> 00:24:55,691 Speaker 2: trying to make sense of what happened. Two people had 458 00:24:55,731 --> 00:24:59,771 Speaker 2: been killed, people he knew. He started to count the 459 00:24:59,811 --> 00:25:01,531 Speaker 2: spent bullets so. 460 00:25:01,491 --> 00:25:04,971 Speaker 3: I walk over a knee wulm spot. I counted his bullet. 461 00:25:05,371 --> 00:25:09,891 Speaker 3: Nine ship and then the girl got one in the head. 462 00:25:10,011 --> 00:25:10,491 Speaker 15: That's ten. 463 00:25:10,651 --> 00:25:13,451 Speaker 3: One was on the wall, and one just shot somebody 464 00:25:13,571 --> 00:25:17,851 Speaker 3: behind the neck. Scraped it all right. That's that's one, 465 00:25:17,971 --> 00:25:19,971 Speaker 3: and one on the one's wall, the one that he said, 466 00:25:20,011 --> 00:25:22,971 Speaker 3: not gonna shoot this jack. Gays don't have a bullet 467 00:25:22,971 --> 00:25:24,451 Speaker 3: at him because the fight. 468 00:25:24,531 --> 00:25:26,811 Speaker 1: It's whoa back then. 469 00:25:26,931 --> 00:25:29,731 Speaker 2: Shootings like this happen often, but they only really made 470 00:25:29,731 --> 00:25:33,051 Speaker 2: the news when they're particularly bloody or if someone from 471 00:25:33,091 --> 00:25:35,491 Speaker 2: outside of Chinatown got caught in the crossfire. 472 00:25:36,451 --> 00:25:39,091 Speaker 16: In the last six month, Chinese street gang activity is 473 00:25:39,251 --> 00:25:41,371 Speaker 16: erupted in violence throughout parts of the city. 474 00:25:41,651 --> 00:25:45,211 Speaker 10: There have been at least eight known Chinese gang related homicide. 475 00:25:45,251 --> 00:25:48,251 Speaker 17: Threats from gangs are phrased in the worst way imaginable, 476 00:25:48,611 --> 00:25:51,091 Speaker 17: the way that leaves it all up to your own imagination. 477 00:25:51,611 --> 00:25:55,291 Speaker 17: For example, we know who your wife is, we know 478 00:25:55,411 --> 00:25:57,811 Speaker 17: what she looks like, we know who your children are, 479 00:25:58,171 --> 00:25:59,091 Speaker 17: we know where you live. 480 00:26:01,011 --> 00:26:04,451 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy seven, a restaurant owner named Mann Bundley 481 00:26:04,931 --> 00:26:08,011 Speaker 2: partnered with the police on a campaign to convince people 482 00:26:08,131 --> 00:26:11,891 Speaker 2: to report gang violence in extortion. He was a respected 483 00:26:11,971 --> 00:26:16,611 Speaker 2: voice in the community, known as Chinatown's unofficial mayor, but 484 00:26:16,771 --> 00:26:20,171 Speaker 2: not long into the campaign, someone came into man Bundley's restaurant, 485 00:26:20,651 --> 00:26:23,531 Speaker 2: pulled a knife out from a Manila folder, and stabbed 486 00:26:23,611 --> 00:26:27,931 Speaker 2: him five times. Mc moy said the stabbing sent a 487 00:26:27,971 --> 00:26:31,451 Speaker 2: clear message. No one who speaks out against the gangs 488 00:26:31,731 --> 00:26:32,171 Speaker 2: is safe. 489 00:26:33,731 --> 00:26:35,531 Speaker 15: They can get to any resident in Chinatown. 490 00:26:35,651 --> 00:26:39,131 Speaker 14: So that's why the fear is there, because there's no 491 00:26:39,291 --> 00:26:40,491 Speaker 14: place for the residents to go. 492 00:26:40,731 --> 00:26:41,211 Speaker 15: The resident of. 493 00:26:41,251 --> 00:26:45,251 Speaker 14: Chinatown will not move over to Staten Island in those days. 494 00:26:45,291 --> 00:26:47,691 Speaker 14: They're not going to move to Jersey. They're trapped in 495 00:26:47,771 --> 00:26:50,891 Speaker 14: Chintown because they don't speak the language where they're going 496 00:26:50,971 --> 00:26:51,091 Speaker 14: to go. 497 00:26:53,811 --> 00:26:55,571 Speaker 2: This fear seems to be a thing of the past 498 00:26:55,611 --> 00:26:58,571 Speaker 2: to mcmoy. Now, he hosts a YouTube channel about his 499 00:26:58,691 --> 00:27:01,211 Speaker 2: former life and interviews other former gang members. 500 00:27:01,971 --> 00:27:05,131 Speaker 14: Welcome to Chintown Gang Stories to they have a special guest. 501 00:27:05,091 --> 00:27:07,491 Speaker 2: And he wanted to make extra sure that I gave 502 00:27:07,571 --> 00:27:10,571 Speaker 2: his channel a shout out. It's called Chinatown Gang Stories 503 00:27:10,811 --> 00:27:14,771 Speaker 2: and you should really check it out. So that's Mike 504 00:27:14,851 --> 00:27:18,091 Speaker 2: moy's way of handling what he's been through the past 505 00:27:18,131 --> 00:27:20,691 Speaker 2: seems to weigh much heavier on the writer Henry Chang. 506 00:27:21,611 --> 00:27:24,091 Speaker 2: He never joined a gang, but when he was a teen, 507 00:27:24,371 --> 00:27:26,931 Speaker 2: a friend of his was stabbed because his friend's older 508 00:27:27,011 --> 00:27:30,731 Speaker 2: brother defied a gangster. The guys who stabbed his friend 509 00:27:30,931 --> 00:27:31,491 Speaker 2: were never. 510 00:27:31,451 --> 00:27:33,011 Speaker 1: Caught after that night. 511 00:27:33,091 --> 00:27:37,851 Speaker 13: I never walk around unarmed, really, so I'm armed right now. 512 00:27:40,331 --> 00:27:42,771 Speaker 2: Henry Chang's novels are all set in the Chinatown that 513 00:27:42,851 --> 00:27:45,371 Speaker 2: he grew up in, and they follow a character named 514 00:27:45,411 --> 00:27:48,850 Speaker 2: Jack Yu, also from the neighborhood, who works there as 515 00:27:48,891 --> 00:27:49,771 Speaker 2: a police detective. 516 00:27:51,691 --> 00:27:54,291 Speaker 13: What do you get over there, Jack, thirty five forty 517 00:27:54,371 --> 00:27:57,371 Speaker 13: g's what all the time that would it costs to 518 00:27:57,451 --> 00:27:59,811 Speaker 13: turn you against people who used to be your friends. 519 00:28:01,011 --> 00:28:06,171 Speaker 13: Jack's face tightened. We only bust the bad ones. Bullshit. 520 00:28:06,891 --> 00:28:09,691 Speaker 13: We take care the bad ones. You guys just come 521 00:28:09,731 --> 00:28:13,371 Speaker 13: for the money to count the bodies. Jack looked up 522 00:28:13,411 --> 00:28:17,091 Speaker 13: from the courtyard. So the oyster colored sky above the 523 00:28:17,211 --> 00:28:20,811 Speaker 13: rooftops they used to run across. It's not about money, 524 00:28:20,931 --> 00:28:25,971 Speaker 13: Jack said, Lucky sneered. It's all about money and damn 525 00:28:26,051 --> 00:28:26,651 Speaker 13: thing funny. 526 00:28:28,611 --> 00:28:30,051 Speaker 2: So this was the state of things in the mid 527 00:28:30,171 --> 00:28:33,370 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties with gangs in Chinatown. They were a protection 528 00:28:33,531 --> 00:28:38,211 Speaker 2: racket connected to powerful community organizations, and for decades law 529 00:28:38,291 --> 00:28:42,291 Speaker 2: enforcement officials had pretty much looked the other way. But 530 00:28:42,451 --> 00:28:46,251 Speaker 2: now they were suddenly paying attention because one gangster had 531 00:28:46,331 --> 00:28:49,331 Speaker 2: figured out a way to make a lot more money. 532 00:29:06,411 --> 00:29:08,731 Speaker 2: While I was reporting this story, I found a Justice 533 00:29:08,771 --> 00:29:11,611 Speaker 2: Department memo from the nineteen eighties. It was for law 534 00:29:11,691 --> 00:29:14,891 Speaker 2: enforcement officials and it listed the names of Asian gangs 535 00:29:14,971 --> 00:29:18,531 Speaker 2: and their leaders, including one gang leader named Johnny Yang. 536 00:29:19,691 --> 00:29:22,251 Speaker 2: The memo called Ang the leader of the Flying Dragons. 537 00:29:22,851 --> 00:29:25,131 Speaker 2: That's that gang that had its headquarters on Pell Street. 538 00:29:25,971 --> 00:29:28,011 Speaker 2: There is a little asterisk next to his name with 539 00:29:28,051 --> 00:29:30,971 Speaker 2: a note that said Aang is believed to be one 540 00:29:31,011 --> 00:29:34,211 Speaker 2: of the most important heroin distributors in New York. 541 00:29:35,331 --> 00:29:39,291 Speaker 18: Machine Gun Johnny Yang became a full fledged gangster in 542 00:29:39,411 --> 00:29:42,651 Speaker 18: March of nineteen eighty three when his boss was found 543 00:29:42,851 --> 00:29:46,651 Speaker 18: full of bullets and scores of Flying Dragons became his 544 00:29:46,811 --> 00:29:47,611 Speaker 18: drug minions. 545 00:29:49,171 --> 00:29:53,451 Speaker 9: I forgot how dramatic the narration yeah in that documentary 546 00:29:53,691 --> 00:29:55,211 Speaker 9: was you have. 547 00:29:55,331 --> 00:29:55,691 Speaker 1: To love it. 548 00:29:56,091 --> 00:29:59,371 Speaker 2: It's from a TV series called Gangsters America's Most Evil 549 00:29:59,611 --> 00:30:02,691 Speaker 2: Machine Gun Johnny and it was broadcast on Cable TV 550 00:30:03,011 --> 00:30:03,851 Speaker 2: in twenty twelve. 551 00:30:03,931 --> 00:30:07,131 Speaker 9: I still feel like it's being a little bit exaggerating. 552 00:30:07,731 --> 00:30:09,211 Speaker 1: Oh, this documentary is. 553 00:30:13,531 --> 00:30:17,291 Speaker 7: He's taking his fellow flying dragons, driving them from New 554 00:30:17,371 --> 00:30:20,651 Speaker 7: York to his spot in Pennsylvania as a farm, and 555 00:30:20,691 --> 00:30:22,051 Speaker 7: they're doing machine gun practice. 556 00:30:22,171 --> 00:30:25,571 Speaker 16: He's copying the Hollywood movies about Chinese gangsters with the 557 00:30:25,651 --> 00:30:29,571 Speaker 16: overcoat hanging off his shoulders, buying luxury goods. You know, 558 00:30:29,651 --> 00:30:32,331 Speaker 16: it's what every Chinese gangster thinks they should look like. 559 00:30:34,091 --> 00:30:35,291 Speaker 15: That's machine gun Johnny. 560 00:30:37,851 --> 00:30:41,331 Speaker 9: It's just funny because like somehow people have met Johnny 561 00:30:41,331 --> 00:30:44,971 Speaker 9: in real life and when they described him, it doesn't 562 00:30:45,011 --> 00:30:47,811 Speaker 9: feel like how they portrayed it in the documentary. 563 00:30:48,091 --> 00:30:50,531 Speaker 2: And to that point, I realized that it's only law 564 00:30:50,611 --> 00:30:54,291 Speaker 2: enforcement who called them machine gun Johnny. The people who 565 00:30:55,011 --> 00:30:59,571 Speaker 2: you know lived in Chinatown. For example, Mike moy knew 566 00:30:59,691 --> 00:31:01,011 Speaker 2: him by another nickname. 567 00:31:01,131 --> 00:31:05,771 Speaker 1: That's not so badass. Why was he called onionhead? 568 00:31:07,171 --> 00:31:10,051 Speaker 14: All right, So here's the mission out there. 569 00:31:10,091 --> 00:31:10,331 Speaker 1: People. 570 00:31:11,091 --> 00:31:16,491 Speaker 14: I've seen some documentaries on YouTube saying that he was 571 00:31:16,611 --> 00:31:19,731 Speaker 14: nicknamed onion head because if you cause him, you know, 572 00:31:20,011 --> 00:31:20,971 Speaker 14: he'll make you cry. 573 00:31:22,011 --> 00:31:22,891 Speaker 15: That is not true. 574 00:31:23,251 --> 00:31:26,211 Speaker 14: That is absolutely not true. He's called onion head because 575 00:31:26,851 --> 00:31:29,051 Speaker 14: of his hairstyle and the shape of his head. 576 00:31:30,291 --> 00:31:32,091 Speaker 1: It's like a spring onion. 577 00:31:32,171 --> 00:31:34,851 Speaker 9: I guess yeah, it's kind of like the mini mohawk 578 00:31:35,011 --> 00:31:38,051 Speaker 9: that you just have, like some here on top of 579 00:31:38,611 --> 00:31:38,891 Speaker 9: the head. 580 00:31:39,051 --> 00:31:41,211 Speaker 1: Oh, all this time I thought it was just sticking 581 00:31:41,331 --> 00:31:42,051 Speaker 1: up by accident. 582 00:31:42,371 --> 00:31:43,051 Speaker 10: Well, we'll never know. 583 00:31:44,891 --> 00:31:48,251 Speaker 9: Has any of these people described what Johnny was like 584 00:31:48,451 --> 00:31:50,771 Speaker 9: even before he became the head of the gang. 585 00:31:51,211 --> 00:31:53,731 Speaker 2: Yeah, he immigrated from Hong Kong to the United States 586 00:31:53,771 --> 00:31:56,731 Speaker 2: when he was twelve years old, and he joined this gang, 587 00:31:56,771 --> 00:31:59,691 Speaker 2: the Flying Dragons, pretty soon after. Because he usually joined 588 00:31:59,691 --> 00:32:02,571 Speaker 2: as a teenager, you know, he didn't really make much 589 00:32:02,571 --> 00:32:04,331 Speaker 2: of an impression. He just kind of seemed like, you're 590 00:32:04,531 --> 00:32:07,211 Speaker 2: in the background gang member. In fact, I couldn't really 591 00:32:07,211 --> 00:32:09,251 Speaker 2: find much about him in the media until around the 592 00:32:09,251 --> 00:32:11,331 Speaker 2: time of the Pizza connection trials. 593 00:32:13,091 --> 00:32:15,331 Speaker 10: I think the impact on the mafia of these cases 594 00:32:15,731 --> 00:32:18,651 Speaker 10: and the convictions today have been devastating. The efforts by 595 00:32:18,691 --> 00:32:21,331 Speaker 10: the DA and the FBI and Custom Service and the 596 00:32:21,411 --> 00:32:23,971 Speaker 10: US Attorney's offices. If it continues, it's not going to 597 00:32:24,011 --> 00:32:24,531 Speaker 10: be in mafia. 598 00:32:25,211 --> 00:32:28,451 Speaker 2: I think Johnny then realized that there was sort of 599 00:32:28,651 --> 00:32:31,451 Speaker 2: a vacuum this big group, the Italian mob, that had 600 00:32:31,531 --> 00:32:34,931 Speaker 2: been bringing in heroin had been busted, and now people 601 00:32:35,171 --> 00:32:38,091 Speaker 2: in New York, you know, they still wanted heroin. And 602 00:32:39,051 --> 00:32:41,011 Speaker 2: at the time, there was a lot of really high 603 00:32:41,291 --> 00:32:45,331 Speaker 2: grade heroin that was being processed in this area around 604 00:32:45,531 --> 00:32:49,931 Speaker 2: Burma Laos, Thailand. It was called the Golden Triangle, and 605 00:32:50,091 --> 00:32:53,891 Speaker 2: heroin would be smuggled from there into various places, including 606 00:32:53,971 --> 00:33:00,451 Speaker 2: Hong Kong and China. So Johnny started going to Hong Kong. 607 00:33:01,251 --> 00:33:04,251 Speaker 2: And I know this because actually Kidjai, one of the 608 00:33:04,371 --> 00:33:07,491 Speaker 2: gangsters that we talked to earlier, he saw him on 609 00:33:07,571 --> 00:33:08,691 Speaker 2: one of the strips to Hong Kong. 610 00:33:09,691 --> 00:33:12,571 Speaker 3: It was the best club in Hong Kong. And so 611 00:33:12,811 --> 00:33:15,131 Speaker 3: when I was walking in with one of the the 612 00:33:15,211 --> 00:33:17,771 Speaker 3: data the movies start right yep, we passed by him 613 00:33:17,811 --> 00:33:20,611 Speaker 3: and I saw him sitting with another man that I 614 00:33:20,691 --> 00:33:21,411 Speaker 3: don't recognize. 615 00:33:22,251 --> 00:33:25,051 Speaker 2: So looking back, Kidji thinks he might have actually witnessed 616 00:33:25,091 --> 00:33:28,211 Speaker 2: Johnny trying to secure connections to start importing heroin into 617 00:33:28,331 --> 00:33:28,691 Speaker 2: New York. 618 00:33:28,811 --> 00:33:29,091 Speaker 9: Okay. 619 00:33:29,531 --> 00:33:31,851 Speaker 2: On his YouTube channel, Mike moy talked to this guy 620 00:33:31,971 --> 00:33:35,771 Speaker 2: Cowboy who was in the Flying Dragons under Johnny aka Onion. 621 00:33:36,531 --> 00:33:40,091 Speaker 19: Onion must like a different regime. He was like, go on, 622 00:33:40,251 --> 00:33:43,611 Speaker 19: make money everyone. It was like the Soviet Union when 623 00:33:43,651 --> 00:33:46,651 Speaker 19: they disbanded. You give a freedom, they gonna say to yourself, 624 00:33:46,691 --> 00:33:47,811 Speaker 19: what the follow one would do with it? 625 00:33:48,091 --> 00:33:48,691 Speaker 18: We don't know how to. 626 00:33:48,691 --> 00:33:51,691 Speaker 19: Make money except distributing drugs. 627 00:33:51,971 --> 00:33:53,451 Speaker 18: So that was the new era. 628 00:33:54,931 --> 00:33:57,811 Speaker 9: Interesting. If there's a way for them to make a 629 00:33:57,851 --> 00:33:59,451 Speaker 9: lot of money in a short time, why not. 630 00:34:00,091 --> 00:34:00,291 Speaker 1: Yeah. 631 00:34:01,051 --> 00:34:02,931 Speaker 2: Later Mike Mooy told me that this moment in the 632 00:34:03,011 --> 00:34:05,891 Speaker 2: late eighties is when Chinatown really started to change. 633 00:34:06,931 --> 00:34:10,970 Speaker 14: The money started pulling in, and you can actually see 634 00:34:11,611 --> 00:34:16,290 Speaker 14: and feel it because everyone was benefiting woman, including all 635 00:34:16,291 --> 00:34:19,531 Speaker 14: the way down to the cab drivers, the waiters, the 636 00:34:19,651 --> 00:34:24,251 Speaker 14: restaurant owners, the gambling houses. So when you have a 637 00:34:24,371 --> 00:34:27,411 Speaker 14: billion dollars in drug money coming in and the circulating 638 00:34:27,531 --> 00:34:31,690 Speaker 14: within those couple of block radius, everyone was benefiting from it. 639 00:34:32,531 --> 00:34:32,931 Speaker 15: Everyone. 640 00:34:34,531 --> 00:34:38,371 Speaker 2: According to later court documents and news articles, Johnny owned 641 00:34:38,811 --> 00:34:42,771 Speaker 2: a two hundred acre estate in Pennsylvania, a house in 642 00:34:42,851 --> 00:34:47,611 Speaker 2: Long Island, a mansion basically, a Jaguar, a Mercedes Benz, 643 00:34:48,411 --> 00:34:52,770 Speaker 2: a Lotus, just a tip of car, twelve black Nissan pathfinders, 644 00:34:53,931 --> 00:35:00,251 Speaker 2: twenty two snowmobiles and eighteen three wheeled all terrain vehicles. 645 00:35:00,931 --> 00:35:04,611 Speaker 9: Twenty two snowmobiles is crazy maybe he's buying up for 646 00:35:04,731 --> 00:35:05,210 Speaker 9: the whole game. 647 00:35:05,291 --> 00:35:07,011 Speaker 2: I heard that he would bring them out to a 648 00:35:07,051 --> 00:35:10,331 Speaker 2: shooting range she had in Pennsylvania. If a gangster won 649 00:35:10,331 --> 00:35:13,091 Speaker 2: the shooting competition, he would give them like a pathfinder 650 00:35:13,211 --> 00:35:14,731 Speaker 2: or a snowmobile or something. 651 00:35:14,971 --> 00:35:17,011 Speaker 9: It's like Jeopardy at Johnny's house. 652 00:35:18,531 --> 00:35:21,291 Speaker 2: To me, it seems like Johnny was flashy, but the 653 00:35:21,371 --> 00:35:24,171 Speaker 2: reason what made him stand out wasn't that he was 654 00:35:24,211 --> 00:35:28,611 Speaker 2: particularly violent, like the documentary paints, it was that he 655 00:35:29,051 --> 00:35:30,131 Speaker 2: was very good at business. 656 00:35:31,211 --> 00:35:34,131 Speaker 14: There were a lot of dangerous gangsters out there in 657 00:35:34,211 --> 00:35:36,651 Speaker 14: the Asian on the will who made a name for themselves, 658 00:35:37,211 --> 00:35:41,051 Speaker 14: and Onionhead wasn't one of them as far as you know, 659 00:35:41,211 --> 00:35:41,931 Speaker 14: being dangerous. 660 00:35:42,811 --> 00:35:48,291 Speaker 15: He didn't have the reputation of a shula a killer. 661 00:35:52,171 --> 00:35:55,811 Speaker 2: So that's who Beryl Howell was after Johnny Ing her 662 00:35:55,851 --> 00:35:58,051 Speaker 2: target came into focus as she tried to figure out 663 00:35:58,171 --> 00:36:00,931 Speaker 2: what connected the woman she had in custody these mageng 664 00:36:00,971 --> 00:36:04,251 Speaker 2: players with the heroin trade they had. 665 00:36:04,531 --> 00:36:09,531 Speaker 5: Through their gambling at gambling parlors, accumulated debt to the 666 00:36:09,691 --> 00:36:14,011 Speaker 5: gambling parlor, and to pay off the debt they could 667 00:36:14,331 --> 00:36:15,771 Speaker 5: accept these boxes of heroin. 668 00:36:16,491 --> 00:36:18,891 Speaker 2: Beryl started to make some progress getting people to talk 669 00:36:18,931 --> 00:36:21,651 Speaker 2: to her at least about which Majong parlors they were 670 00:36:21,731 --> 00:36:24,971 Speaker 2: going to, and that was actually a huge clue. 671 00:36:25,651 --> 00:36:33,091 Speaker 5: When the information came in through interviews with the cooperating 672 00:36:33,171 --> 00:36:38,331 Speaker 5: witnesses that they were paying off debts to the particular 673 00:36:38,411 --> 00:36:41,811 Speaker 5: gambling parlor that was operated by the Flying Dragons. The 674 00:36:42,011 --> 00:36:45,411 Speaker 5: agents and I knew immediately that this was a Flying 675 00:36:45,451 --> 00:36:48,451 Speaker 5: Dragons operation and had a I think it was very 676 00:36:48,491 --> 00:36:51,051 Speaker 5: well known that Johnny Ang was head of the Flying 677 00:36:51,131 --> 00:36:54,331 Speaker 5: Dragons and that he had to have known were these 678 00:36:54,691 --> 00:36:59,611 Speaker 5: and approved of these very valuable shipments being shipped. 679 00:37:01,291 --> 00:37:03,971 Speaker 2: Beryl was interviewing these women who had been arrested, but 680 00:37:04,091 --> 00:37:06,891 Speaker 2: each played what seemed like only a tiny role. They 681 00:37:06,971 --> 00:37:09,250 Speaker 2: might receive a package or remove it from one place 682 00:37:09,251 --> 00:37:12,971 Speaker 2: to another. It all seemed very well designed to protect Johnny. 683 00:37:13,691 --> 00:37:15,091 Speaker 2: He was still out of reach. 684 00:37:15,891 --> 00:37:17,730 Speaker 1: He was our ultimate target, absolutely. 685 00:37:19,091 --> 00:37:21,251 Speaker 2: But Beryl did start to figure out that there was 686 00:37:21,371 --> 00:37:24,451 Speaker 2: one woman who seemed to be overseeing the whole package 687 00:37:24,491 --> 00:37:28,371 Speaker 2: moving side of the operation. Her name was Wah and 688 00:37:28,531 --> 00:37:31,211 Speaker 2: she was a well known person in the Majong parlors. 689 00:37:32,411 --> 00:37:35,210 Speaker 2: Beryl actually gave her a nickname, although only in her 690 00:37:35,251 --> 00:37:37,571 Speaker 2: own mind. Wicked Wall. 691 00:37:38,611 --> 00:37:40,931 Speaker 5: She was recruiting them to get involved with something with 692 00:37:43,011 --> 00:37:49,611 Speaker 5: very serious penalty consequences, and they had children and families, 693 00:37:51,451 --> 00:37:54,771 Speaker 5: so yes, what she had been doing was wicked. 694 00:37:57,131 --> 00:38:00,571 Speaker 2: Beryl thought that this recruiter Wah, she might be her 695 00:38:00,651 --> 00:38:05,890 Speaker 2: link to Johnny Wall was also Tina Wong's childhood best friend. 696 00:38:06,851 --> 00:38:10,330 Speaker 2: So Beryl wanted Tina to tell her everything she knew 697 00:38:10,371 --> 00:38:13,531 Speaker 2: about Wall. And all of that brings us back into 698 00:38:13,571 --> 00:38:16,971 Speaker 2: that small office in Brooklyn, with Tina handcuffed to a 699 00:38:17,091 --> 00:38:21,690 Speaker 2: chair looking at Beryl's face, which to her seemed expressionless. 700 00:38:25,011 --> 00:38:28,931 Speaker 1: Now Tina had to weigh her options. On the one side, 701 00:38:30,011 --> 00:38:31,571 Speaker 1: it isn't that good to ride out a friend. 702 00:38:32,651 --> 00:38:35,531 Speaker 2: Were you thinking about like the dangers like that you 703 00:38:35,651 --> 00:38:38,411 Speaker 2: could maybe get killed because you were cooperating? 704 00:38:38,491 --> 00:38:40,731 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was telling them that, I says, you know, 705 00:38:40,891 --> 00:38:41,291 Speaker 4: if I do. 706 00:38:41,491 --> 00:38:47,091 Speaker 1: This aside to you don't cooperate, Yeah, what happens then. 707 00:38:49,131 --> 00:38:53,651 Speaker 4: A chance to twenty five years to life and then 708 00:38:53,771 --> 00:38:57,690 Speaker 4: don't get to see my door to grow up. So 709 00:38:58,371 --> 00:38:59,891 Speaker 4: you got to weigh out the choices. 710 00:39:01,731 --> 00:39:05,611 Speaker 2: Despite all of her research, all of her investigation, Beryl 711 00:39:05,691 --> 00:39:08,411 Speaker 2: still didn't know the full import of what she was 712 00:39:08,491 --> 00:39:11,651 Speaker 2: asking Tina to do you or the price that Tina 713 00:39:11,691 --> 00:39:12,091 Speaker 2: would pay. 714 00:39:13,211 --> 00:39:16,931 Speaker 1: But maybe that's because Tina wasn't telling her. 715 00:39:29,891 --> 00:39:33,051 Speaker 2: Coming up on the next episode of The Chinatown Sting, 716 00:39:34,251 --> 00:39:36,091 Speaker 2: how do you get people to do whatever you. 717 00:39:36,171 --> 00:39:36,651 Speaker 12: Want for you? 718 00:39:37,051 --> 00:39:41,011 Speaker 1: Because I'm swat I could convince them. 719 00:39:40,971 --> 00:39:48,371 Speaker 2: You know. The Chinatown Sting is written and produced by 720 00:39:48,451 --> 00:39:52,290 Speaker 2: Me Liddy Jeene Cott and reported by Me and Shoe 721 00:39:52,331 --> 00:39:57,571 Speaker 2: Yu Wang. Our senior producer is Emily Martinez, additional production 722 00:39:57,811 --> 00:40:02,731 Speaker 2: by Sonya Gerwit. Our editor is Julia Barton, with additional 723 00:40:02,851 --> 00:40:07,891 Speaker 2: editing by Karen Schakerji. Our story consultant is Wrong shout Ching, 724 00:40:08,771 --> 00:40:12,371 Speaker 2: Our executive our producer is Jacob Smith. Our music was 725 00:40:12,451 --> 00:40:16,571 Speaker 2: composed by John Sung, sound design and additional music. 726 00:40:16,491 --> 00:40:17,331 Speaker 1: By Jake Gorski. 727 00:40:18,091 --> 00:40:20,891 Speaker 2: Our fact checker is Kate Ferby, and our show art 728 00:40:21,171 --> 00:40:25,731 Speaker 2: was designed by Sean Carney. All voiceover work by Tally Leong. 729 00:40:26,851 --> 00:40:29,411 Speaker 2: For more information about this episode, check out our show 730 00:40:29,491 --> 00:40:35,331 Speaker 2: notes or visit Pushkin dot fm slash Chinatown. The Chinatown 731 00:40:35,411 --> 00:40:37,411 Speaker 2: Stag is a production of Pushkin Industries. 732 00:40:38,131 --> 00:40:39,051 Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin 733 00:40:39,091 --> 00:40:43,571 Speaker 2: Podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 734 00:40:43,691 --> 00:40:45,051 Speaker 2: you like to listen to podcasts.