1
00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:11,920
Speaker 1: Also media Ah, welcome back yet again to Behind the Bastards,

2
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 1: a podcast about g Gordon Lidty.

3
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,360
Speaker 2: You know, we initially did four parts, and I was like,

4
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 2: that's probably about as much g Gordon Liddy. I had

5
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 2: hoped to cover his whole life in full part four parts,

6
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,480
Speaker 2: and I just I couldn't stop. I couldn't stop getting

7
00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,840
Speaker 2: into these little rabbit holes, kept getting pulled into things.

8
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 2: He's just too interesting, and I'm always, you know, whenever

9
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,040
Speaker 2: we have an episode that runs into the multi parts,

10
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 2: I get kind of anxious because I'm afraid that, like

11
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,479
Speaker 2: you know, no episode is everybody's favorite, right, and so

12
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,200
Speaker 2: we try to we try to have variety. We try

13
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,240
Speaker 2: to go back and forth between you know, we got

14
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,959
Speaker 2: cult leaders, business monsters, Nazis, you know, quack doctors, all

15
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, so everybody gets someone what they like.

16
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 2: So I get worried whenever we start going too long

17
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,520
Speaker 2: on one guy. But I listened to the first four

18
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 2: episodes and I kept feeling like we were we were

19
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 2: doing a disservice to the audience by not finishing the G.

20
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 2: Gordon Liddy story.

21
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,200
Speaker 3: You know, I I will admit it didn't feel like

22
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 3: there was like plenty more to do. There's so much more,

23
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 3: I think to your to your point, you know, it

24
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 3: does he does cover. He's like a real like multi

25
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 3: hyphen it in terms of yeah fuck yeah, true true

26
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 3: fuck faces in the twentieth century.

27
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 2: And we're missing still. You know, Watergate is quite a thing,

28
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,840
Speaker 2: and his just his his fascinating brain is worth studying.

29
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,520
Speaker 2: But we're missing a whole chunk of his career, which

30
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 2: is where he kind of invents the modern concept of

31
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 2: a right wing influencer in a lot of ways. So Andrew,

32
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 2: welcome back to the show. Now, folks you you may

33
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,720
Speaker 2: have noticed the absence of a of a certain voice

34
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 2: in the audience today. Sophie is not here. She was

35
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 2: taken into custody by Nicaraguan authorities after a brief gun

36
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 2: battle last weekend. She's fine. We're working on on on

37
00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 2: getting her out.

38
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 1: Uh.

39
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,040
Speaker 2: You know, it's just a misunderstanding to do with some just.

40
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 4: Some paperwork that needs to be foed.

41
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, paperwork, paperwork, Yes, that's it, that's right. Sorry,

42
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,760
Speaker 2: I yes, paperwork, not kidnappings. So Ian Ian Johnson are

43
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,280
Speaker 2: our inimitable editor is sitting in for her today. How

44
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:34,639
Speaker 2: are you doing?

45
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 4: Ian I'm doing pretty good. Excited to learn more about

46
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 4: the g man you know, is burning himself, lighting his

47
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 4: hands on fire. Yes, I love it, so let's keep

48
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:44,560
Speaker 4: it coming.

49
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 2: You know, I'm kind of low key glad that that

50
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,040
Speaker 2: Sophie wound up trying to overthrow the Nicaraguan government last weekend,

51
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 2: because this is an episode that does need a little

52
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,320
Speaker 2: bit of a boys club, because we're going to not

53
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,359
Speaker 2: just be talking about g Gordon Liddy, but a lot

54
00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,560
Speaker 2: of concepts of masculinity in our society, and I think

55
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,920
Speaker 2: he kind of embodies pretty well. So this will be good.

56
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,120
Speaker 2: This will be a good, good time for the bro squad.

57
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 4: Okay, we're gonna brow down.

58
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, oh yeah, we're gonna brow down hard everybody. Yeah.

59
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:14,519
Speaker 4: Yeah.

60
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,359
Speaker 2: You know, Ian, when when I was trying to come

61
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,840
Speaker 2: up with ways to introduce this show last night, I

62
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,400
Speaker 2: was thinking of nicknames for you in my head. Since

63
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,919
Speaker 2: I haven't gotten to do that much, I'd.

64
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 4: Love to hear well.

65
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,400
Speaker 2: I was gonna go with Ebao the Letter, which is

66
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,679
Speaker 2: a reference to an r EM song about Ripper Phoenix

67
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 2: that that like four people know today. All of the

68
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,120
Speaker 2: people who listen to that song back in the nineties

69
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 2: are dead now except for like me, and I'm going

70
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,560
Speaker 2: to guess dan Aykroyd he was one of Ripper Phoenix's friends, right.

71
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,360
Speaker 4: No, maybe one of the guys in or they don't

72
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 4: even know it anymore.

73
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 2: No, no, no, there's no way Michael Stipe remembers this,

74
00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,640
Speaker 2: not with all of the Michael Stipe induced brain damage

75
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 2: he has. Are we are we ready for the last

76
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:56,960
Speaker 2: of Lyddy?

77
00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 4: Yes?

78
00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:58,560
Speaker 3: Oh my god?

79
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay. When we left off with the g Man,

80
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 2: he had just been convicted and sentenced to like twenty

81
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 2: years in prison for his many crimes, many incompetent crimes.

82
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 2: And obviously Lyddy does not do close to twenty years

83
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 2: in prison, but he and his family don't know that

84
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 2: where he goes inside and to all. For everything I

85
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 2: can tell, I believe he was fully willing to serve

86
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 2: that amount of time. Right. One thing you can't take

87
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 2: away from the guy is his commitment to the BIT.

88
00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,320
Speaker 2: And the BIT, of course, is fascism, so I don't

89
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,240
Speaker 2: really respect it, but I do respect the commitment, you know. Yeah,

90
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,039
Speaker 2: you just kind of have to pass a certain point.

91
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,800
Speaker 3: Look, I'm worried that I have said made this analogy

92
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,479
Speaker 3: or repeated this analogy before on this very show. But

93
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,800
Speaker 3: it's a little bit the same as like the like

94
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 3: nine to eleven hijackers. Everyone constantly the calls those attacks cowardly.

95
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:50,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.

96
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,159
Speaker 3: The one thing they absolutely were not is cowardly.

97
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,120
Speaker 2: Look, it wasn't a good thing to do, but it

98
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 2: was not cowardly.

99
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very brave.

100
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that I think this goes into actually something

101
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,440
Speaker 2: that's very relevant to these episodes, which is that our

102
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 2: culture places a moral value on concepts like courage and courage.

103
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,599
Speaker 2: Physical courage is an absolutely a moral value. The SS.

104
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 2: A lot of guys with physical courage in the SS

105
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,039
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, doesn't make them good. Is not like a

106
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,240
Speaker 2: redeeming trait. And it's the same. Yeah, you know, when

107
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 2: I say something is respectable, respect does not imply morality.

108
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 2: It's like, if somebody is incredibly good at breaking and

109
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 2: entering into houses in order to like take people's valuables,

110
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,799
Speaker 2: that may not be a good thing. He's probably hurting

111
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,479
Speaker 2: a lot of people, but you have to respect the

112
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 2: degree of skill in busting through a lock, you know.

113
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 3: Ye. Also that one isn't as ambiguous, unambiguously.

114
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 2: Bads, No, it's not. I don't know.

115
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 3: We've been a breaking an entering. It's all where it

116
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:51,760
Speaker 3: goes a little.

117
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,599
Speaker 2: Bit of B and A yeah. I guess it depends

118
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:54,800
Speaker 2: on the B and the E.

119
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:55,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

120
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 2: So back to Lyddy. So he he goes inside and

121
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 2: his wife takes a job. I thinks he's a sixth

122
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 2: grade teacher and is completely the one taking care of

123
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,480
Speaker 2: the family while he is at She has some help

124
00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,000
Speaker 2: from Gordon's parents, but his father, Sylvester is going to

125
00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,480
Speaker 2: die about halfway through his time in prison, which I

126
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 2: think seriously reduces the ability of the in laws to

127
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 2: kind of take care of them. This also means that

128
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 2: Lyddy is going to be left without the let's say

129
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,039
Speaker 2: questionable moral support that his dad was able to That

130
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,720
Speaker 2: was like the one thing holding him back though right.

131
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,560
Speaker 2: I think if his dad had been alive, he probably

132
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,040
Speaker 2: would have given his dad a copy of the autobiography

133
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 2: before what published, and his dad would have been like,

134
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 2: you got a D. D. Hitler This thing by about

135
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:42,040
Speaker 2: fifty percent.

136
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,479
Speaker 3: Everyone needs that person in your life to just say

137
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 3: just a less Hitler, less Hitler. I know we all

138
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:49,840
Speaker 3: want to Hitler a time.

139
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, count up, the Hitler references in your book. Cut

140
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,640
Speaker 2: him in half, you know what, cut him in half?

141
00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,559
Speaker 2: Half as much Hitler? Fair enough.

142
00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 3: It's like Coco Chanel for Coco Chanell.

143
00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's right. You just just the Chanel, leave

144
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,039
Speaker 2: the Coco out. I think the problems are in the

145
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 2: co co So Lyddy's lawyer during this period is a

146
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 2: guy named Peter Marulis. And if you comb through old

147
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,120
Speaker 2: New York Times articles or their contemporary Watergate coverage, you'll

148
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 2: see Marulus mentioned a lot. He had a reputation for

149
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 2: being mild mannered but persistent. He was apparently pretty good looking.

150
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,320
Speaker 2: It's hard to judge his actual competence from this case

151
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 2: because Lydia doesn't really give him a chance to be

152
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 2: a great defense lawyer. Right Lyddy is like, I am

153
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 2: guilty and I will say nothing else, which is, to

154
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 2: be fair to Peter, a difficult position to be in

155
00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,480
Speaker 2: as a defense attorney. You don't have a lot of

156
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 2: wiggle room there. It is really funny the way in

157
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: which the g Man describes his for because Marulus is

158
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 2: his former law partner and his best friend. Quote a tall,

159
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 2: powerfully built man with a Clark Kent face. And glasses

160
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 2: under thinning sandy hair. Peter Marulis will correct anyone who

161
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 2: refers to his ethnic extraction as Greek by advising sternly

162
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,160
Speaker 2: that he has a Spartan. He was my best friend.

163
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure we were going to get a Sparta

164
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 2: reference in here, but there we go, there we go,

165
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 2: We got it. We did it everyone.

166
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 3: It's good to know. And this five goes back literally

167
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 3: as to Herodotus, people who call themselves a Spartan are

168
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 3: the fucking worst.

169
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, anyone who because like they weren't good at

170
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,920
Speaker 2: like their period of time, as like it like objectively

171
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,360
Speaker 2: dominant in the Greek peninsula was like roughly the period

172
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,160
Speaker 2: of time Martin Scorsese has been making movies right like

173
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 2: it's it's not like that long a span of time.

174
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,319
Speaker 2: And I think Scorsese is more impressive as like a

175
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,559
Speaker 2: force in culture. But Marulus is not a Spartan. Of course,

176
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 2: he is from Poughkeepsie, which is the opposite of Sparta.

177
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,000
Speaker 2: I think, probably in a good way. But whatever, when

178
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 2: he first went away, when Liddy first goes away gets

179
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,680
Speaker 2: locked up, he's sent in a local jail kind of

180
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 2: as his case is winding its way to completion. He

181
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 2: gets a period where he's like he's convict did but

182
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,320
Speaker 2: he's not like permanently sentenced in everything here, everyone, Robert here,

183
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 2: I actually got this wrong. I double checked, and Sparta's

184
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,319
Speaker 2: period of military dominance in Greece was something like a

185
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 2: little over thirty years, whereas Carsese's been directing for like

186
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,680
Speaker 2: fifty something years. It would have been better if I

187
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 2: had compared the length of time that Sparta was the

188
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,680
Speaker 2: dominant military power in Greece to like the run of

189
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 2: the Simpsons at present, although they'll eat it soon. And

190
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,839
Speaker 2: he describes himself during this early period of incarceration as

191
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 2: totally at peace because while he had abandoned his family

192
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: and left his wife defend for their five children completely alone,

193
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,199
Speaker 2: it was all in service of a greater cause, and

194
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 2: that greater cause was Richard Nixon. Now, Lyddy was not

195
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,560
Speaker 2: unaware of the fact this is an unfair thing to

196
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,600
Speaker 2: do to your wife, right to abandon her for half

197
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 2: a decade in order to protect Dick Nixon, the man

198
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 2: least deserving of loyalty of anyone who has ever lived.

199
00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, at one point he seems to have been

200
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,200
Speaker 2: somewhat aware dimly at least that this was not a

201
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 2: morally clean thing for him to be doing. And so

202
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,520
Speaker 2: at one point this is one of the things that's

203
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 2: interesting about it. But at one point he sits down

204
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,079
Speaker 2: with her on a visitation day and is like, look,

205
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 2: I know this is not what you signed up for.

206
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,640
Speaker 2: This is not fair. If you want to leave me,

207
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 2: get a divorce, find someone new, you know, that's totally

208
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 2: fine with me. I'll sign the papers, I'll do whatever.

209
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 2: And fran opts to stick by him, which is I guess,

210
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,720
Speaker 2: at least proof that even the sickest weirdhouse on this

211
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,960
Speaker 2: planet can find true love. I don't know what you

212
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 2: want to like interpret from that. I don't find it optimistic,

213
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 2: but it is a thing way. It's pretty sweet, but

214
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 2: it's true. It's a deeply sweet thing to do. Again,

215
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 2: I hate that this incredible gesture of love is on

216
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,720
Speaker 2: behalf of Richard Nixon, at least partly, so like, that's

217
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 2: not great, but it is what it is. It is so.

218
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 2: Gordon does not describe his experience in prison as bad.

219
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 2: He does, however, describe it like a white guy raised

220
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,440
Speaker 2: on Clint Eastwood movies from the seventies. Right, this is like,

221
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 2: I don't know the degree to which I know that

222
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,960
Speaker 2: he's not telling the full truth. I suspect he is

223
00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 2: censoring his true feelings about his time behind bars significantly

224
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 2: and consciously aping movies from the nineteen seventies in this

225
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 2: book that he writes because he knows that that'll sell

226
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 2: with conservatives. Right, there's a lot of dirty Harry in

227
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,959
Speaker 2: a number of chunks of this book. Here's one line

228
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 2: where he talks about his early days in jail. In here,

229
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,960
Speaker 2: people wore all neighbors and it was like old Home Week.

230
00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,560
Speaker 2: I couldn't understand most of what was being said. It

231
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 2: was all in black dialect, and I didn't speak it.

232
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 2: I have sense of necessity become fluent. I don't think

233
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 2: that's the case because he writes, and I'm not going

234
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,400
Speaker 2: to I'm not going to read him writing what he

235
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,679
Speaker 2: calls black dialect. But he does attempt to at several times,

236
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,800
Speaker 2: and I do not him credible.

237
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,839
Speaker 3: I'll say that, yeah, this is surreal. I speak jive.

238
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 3: It is come up before Airplane.

239
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,640
Speaker 2: I actually don't know that. I'm not exactly shore when

240
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 2: that movie came out. It's pretty embarrassing to read. Again,

241
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna like go too much into it because

242
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,360
Speaker 2: of how embarrassing it is. But you should know that

243
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 2: this is not just not just the thing he does once,

244
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 2: but a thing that is like repeatedly a part of

245
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 2: this chunk of his narrative. So, because Lyddy and McCord

246
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,560
Speaker 2: and Hunt all got caught and charged so far ahead

247
00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,120
Speaker 2: of the bulk of the Watergate scandal breaking out, there's

248
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,080
Speaker 2: this long lag time. And this is one of the

249
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,840
Speaker 2: things that the two different TV shows we've talked about

250
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 2: really fuck up. I mean, I don't think they fuck

251
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,839
Speaker 2: it up. I think it's a narrative choice they make,

252
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,559
Speaker 2: but they really mess with the timeline for the purposes

253
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,520
Speaker 2: of making it seem like guys like John Dean and

254
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 2: Erlikman and whatnot getting in trouble times up with the

255
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 2: break in, and with guys like Hunt and Liddy getting

256
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,079
Speaker 2: in trouble much better than it does. In reality. The

257
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,440
Speaker 2: shit with Hunt and LIDDI happens well ahead of the

258
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: rest of the scandal breaking and so these guys are

259
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,760
Speaker 2: all kind of in jail while the Nixon administration is

260
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 2: falling apart. Lyddy is determined to prevent this, to prevent

261
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 2: Nixon from getting forced out of office again. The whole

262
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 2: thing that was kind of like keeping him together was

263
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,400
Speaker 2: the idea that by sacrificing himself and his family, he

264
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 2: could keep Nixon in office, that like the chain of

265
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,520
Speaker 2: custody would stop with him, and that Nixon wouldn't get

266
00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 2: in trouble if he went away. And he kind of

267
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 2: comes to the conclusion that if McCord or Hunt in

268
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,720
Speaker 2: particular break, that's such a danger to the administration that

269
00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 2: he would have to murder them, you know. So he

270
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 2: claims that, you know, he says that he makes because

271
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 2: he claims he's very popular with some of these other

272
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,560
Speaker 2: prison guys, and he claims that one of these dudes,

273
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 2: and he always tells you that these are black men,

274
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,440
Speaker 2: tells him that the price of a murder is two

275
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 2: cartons of cigarettes. He works out like a plan basically

276
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 2: where he'll assaulted guard to get sent to solitary for

277
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 2: a few days, and then this friend of his, who's

278
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 2: totally his buddy, will murder whichever one of his co

279
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 2: conspirators that he needed dead. Knowing Lyddy, knowing his general

280
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,080
Speaker 2: level of competence, I wouldn't be surprised if he got

281
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 2: a dude to say, yeah, man, give me cigarettes and

282
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,560
Speaker 2: I'll totally murder a dude with you. Send yourself to solitary,

283
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,720
Speaker 2: and I'll make it happen, right, Like, I would not

284
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 2: be surprised if someone scammed him as a spoiler. He

285
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,640
Speaker 2: never comes close to hurting anyone in prison that we

286
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 2: can prove in any way, shape or form. I think

287
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 2: a lot of this is just bluster, and this dude,

288
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 2: having watched a lot of prison movies.

289
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 3: Really look, I just back of the enveloping a little

290
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 3: bit of even with inflation, how the fuck you gotta

291
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,680
Speaker 3: try to get away with two cartons of cigarettes? Is

292
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 3: the price? Like, get the fuck out of here.

293
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 2: I think the idea is that, like, well, if you're

294
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 2: if you're a lifer or whatever, it doesn't really matter

295
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 2: either way, whether the cigarettes or whatever. But like, I

296
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 2: think they're gonna take your cigarettes, right, Like, if you

297
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 2: murder a guy, they're gonna throw you in side. I

298
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 2: don't know, it doesn't seem that that, especially since we're

299
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 2: talking about like very high profile prisoners. Yeah, it's one

300
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 2: thing if it's like, yeah, if you murder this other

301
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,120
Speaker 2: dude who's a lifer and who nobody on the outside

302
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 2: cares about and you can probably get away with it

303
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 2: because the prison authorities aren't going to investigate if you

304
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 2: murder e. Howard Hunt, Like yeah, they're not just gonna

305
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,640
Speaker 2: pretend that didn't happen, you know.

306
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 3: But also people know what kind of money you have

307
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 3: access to and what you're trying to do. You don't

308
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 3: think the price is going to be one hundred K

309
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,240
Speaker 3: to my family on the outside.

310
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 2: You don't think anyone's going to like foya to see, like, hey,

311
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,400
Speaker 2: this guy got murdered right after g Gordon Lyddy gets

312
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 2: put in solitary. Did he buy anything for another prisoner

313
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:48,800
Speaker 2: right before?

314
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 3: Like?

315
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 2: Is that documented? Like every journalist in the country would

316
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 2: have poured over this anyway, whatever, But again Lyddy never

317
00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,640
Speaker 2: does anything. Gordon claims that during the of his time

318
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 2: in prison, he is because he's a white man in

319
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 2: a jail, the subject of numerous racial epithets. During the

320
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,400
Speaker 2: start of his time behind bars, he says his new

321
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 2: neighbors were particularly angry because, and this is his fault,

322
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 2: he would walk naked to and from the shower, which

323
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 2: he thought was fine because of his experiences in high

324
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,240
Speaker 2: school gym. But like it's apparently rude in a prison

325
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 2: now again. Prison mores change regularly and differ from region

326
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 2: to region. But this seems like a pretty easy thing

327
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 2: to know. If it's like getting a bad reaction to people,

328
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 2: just don't walk naked around it. Put a towel on,

329
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 2: man like, it's not that art anyway. His decision is

330
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 2: not to just put a towel on. He says that

331
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,280
Speaker 2: after a week or so being basically being called honky,

332
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,240
Speaker 2: he decides to fight back. And I'm going to give

333
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 2: you one guess as to how he decides to fight

334
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: back against anti white racism. What he describes is.

335
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,200
Speaker 4: That did he light himself on fire?

336
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 1: No?

337
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 2: Oh, that was the other likely No Ian, No, it's Nazi,

338
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 2: it's Nazi stuff. He does a Nazi again.

339
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 3: He's got one play, and he loves the play.

340
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,439
Speaker 2: He's right, he's got two he has bringing up the

341
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 2: SS and lighting himself on fire, Like those aren't the

342
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 2: only two plays he ever developed.

343
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 3: Well at that point that was also the kiing Nazi move.

344
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,199
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, let yourself Yeah yeah, that's what Hitler did

345
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 2: to the whole country. Yeah, so quote I seethed then

346
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 2: an idea he seethed after getting you know, yelled at yeah.

347
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,920
Speaker 2: Then an idea hit me. They wanted race, I'd give

348
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,480
Speaker 2: them race. My mind reached back thirty five years deep

349
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 2: into my childhood. In my head, the shortwave of my

350
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 2: mother's old Emerson snapped on. The music started and I

351
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 2: started to sing, sing as I hadn't in years. I

352
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 2: roared out into the chaos about me, the anthem of

353
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,439
Speaker 2: the nation whose psychotic obsession with race sent millions of

354
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 2: those believed inferior to their graves. And then he starts

355
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 2: singing the horse wessel Ride.

356
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god, by the time, even as far as

357
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 3: Nazi shit you could do in prison, that is impressively.

358
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 2: And He's like, there was something so powerful about the

359
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 2: music that they all stopped yelling at me as soon

360
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 2: as they heard it, even though they didn't speak German.

361
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,360
Speaker 2: And it's like, no, they look, I'm gonna yeah, of course,

362
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess most people in the DC jail did

363
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 2: not speak German, but like they knew this was Nazi shit.

364
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 2: It's not that hard when a guy starts singing a

365
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 2: Marshall Germans song, you get what's going on?

366
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 3: Yeah in a jail.

367
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like so this is where I Yeah, it's it's

368
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 2: it's pretty fun. So after some time in the DC jail,

369
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 2: he gets sent to a larger facility, dan Berry, and

370
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 2: he's he's still kept out. He's in a bigger facility now,

371
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 2: but he's kept out of the general population because he

372
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,879
Speaker 2: still hasn't been sentenced. He claims that during this time

373
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 2: he met another Nazi, the son of the s SH

374
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 2: Gestapo commander of Brussels, who became his chess partner. He's like, yeah,

375
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,200
Speaker 2: I met the son of this SS Gestapo commander in Brussels,

376
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 2: and we started becoming like, you know, chess buddies.

377
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 3: Quote.

378
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, we get on famously. He knows more songs than

379
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 2: I do. And shower time sounds like the invasion of Poland.

380
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 2: My god, that's the sins you should not ever write now.

381
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 3: These two naked Nazis belting out fucking Wagner there.

382
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, first off, comparing your shower time to the invasion

383
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 2: of Poland. Let me remind you all three million Jewish

384
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 2: Poles are murdered during the Nazi occupation, along with at

385
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 2: least one point eight million non Jewish Polish citizens. That's

386
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 2: a little bit political, right, Like the Polish state will

387
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: say it's about three million Polish citizens. Honestly, that doesn't

388
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 2: really sound impossible to me, Like a lot so many

389
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 2: Polish people die as a result of the occupation. More importantly, though,

390
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 2: we can actually drill into the accuracy of this Claims

391
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 2: claimed that he was buddies with the son of the

392
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 2: s S Gestapo commander in Brussels, because that's a job.

393
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 2: We know who did that gig right, The head of

394
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 2: this Gestapo in Belgium was a dude named Constantine Kanaris.

395
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 2: Now you may have heard of a guy named Admiral

396
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,479
Speaker 2: Wilhelm Canaris. Canaris was a Nazi who was one of

397
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 2: the guys that was kind of part of the plot

398
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 2: against Hitler. That's in that Tom Cruise movie. He gets

399
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 2: a little rehabilitated for this. That should not be the case.

400
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 2: Wilhelm Canaris is like not one of the worst Nazis,

401
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 2: but was definitely definitely a Nazi. He worked very closely

402
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 2: with Ryan hart Heidrich, architect of the Holocaust. He's one

403
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 2: of these dudes who doesn't like Hitler at the end

404
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 2: because he thinks Hitler's losing the war, and he gets executed,

405
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,360
Speaker 2: by the way should have been executed and was fucking executed.

406
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 2: His nephew is a Constantine Canaris, who is the head

407
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: of the Gestapo in Brussels during when Brussels is occupied

408
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 2: by the Nazis. Constantine is also a fucking war criminal.

409
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 2: He gets sentenced to twenty years hard labor for a

410
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 2: number of things. He's responsible for the execution of a

411
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: number of political prisoners. He's also he plays a significant

412
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 2: role in the roundup and deportation of Belgian Jews. He

413
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 2: is one of the guys who helps do the Holocaust,

414
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 2: right Constantine Canaris. Obviously, he's the gestapohead in Belgium. He's

415
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: not a good person. Constantine serves half of his sentence

416
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 2: and then dies in nineteen eighty three, which is three

417
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 2: years after Liddy's book was published. I have a little

418
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 2: trouble nailing this down entirely, but his German Wikipedia entry

419
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 2: says that he has multiple sons, but it only names

420
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 2: two of them, and of the sons that I know

421
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 2: he had, neither of them ever spent any time in

422
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,239
Speaker 2: a US prison. Klaus Wilhelm was a legal scholar and

423
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 2: a professor who spent his entire life living and working

424
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: in Germany. Volker Canaris became a director and produced a

425
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 2: famous movie about the Commandant of Auschwitz. He also spent

426
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: his life in Germany. I can find absolutely no evidence

427
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 2: that Constantine Canaris had a son who went to the

428
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: United States and was put in a DC area jail

429
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 2: or prison. No evidence whatsoever that this happened. I believe,

430
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: based on what I can confirm, that G. Gordon Liddy

431
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 2: is lying about this, or that's some random deald like

432
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: about being this guy's son.

433
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, it feels like at this point it's

434
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 3: you know, hey, the guy that was singing fucking Nazi

435
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 3: songs in the other prison before I got transferred over.

436
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 3: I'll just tell of as a regular as American Nazi

437
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 3: that I'm a special match.

438
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I'm Constantine Kenaris's son. Anyway, Yeah, again, he's

439
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: lying here or I think that, like, there's a pretty

440
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 2: good chance that Liddy is lying, because he does lie

441
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 2: regularly in his memoir, and I hope that keeps in

442
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 2: your head as we investigate the wackier claims he makes

443
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 2: on his journey. Anyway, moving on, Liddy says that due

444
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 2: to his familiarity with FBI studies on interrogation, he knew

445
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: that the ideal time to interrogate and break a person

446
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 2: who has been locked up is after six weeks. That

447
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: the FBI likes to leave people in custody for about

448
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: six weeks because there's this kind of initial period you

449
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 2: get when you move into incarceration where you get like

450
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: extra resilient and like tough and like I can take this,

451
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: I'm gonna and that After about six weeks, the kind

452
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 2: of natural boost you get from that wears down and

453
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: you're at the lowest point in your psychological defenses. So

454
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 2: he figured that they were going to wait until he'd

455
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 2: been in there a couple of months, and then they

456
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 2: were going to try to break him right and get

457
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: him to talk, because that's when he would be at

458
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: his most vulnerable. So he decides that he has to

459
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 2: build up his willpower to fight back, and the first

460
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: move he takes to do this is to become honestly,

461
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 2: you know, I hope you know. If you've got an

462
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 2: eating disorder, we're going to talk about that a bit here.

463
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 2: He decides to cut his food intake to six hundred

464
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: calories a day and starve himself while doubling his daily

465
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: exercise routine, and like he describes this as a mental

466
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 2: exercise to increase his willpower. As someone who has had

467
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: an eating disorder, this all reads to me like a

468
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: guy describing his descent into anirexig mania in order to

469
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 2: have more control over his situation after being locked up

470
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: like that. That is how this reads to me. And

471
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 2: I'm going I'm gonna read you a segment from that quote.

472
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: My mood remained steady. I was getting along with all

473
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: the other prisoners. Things were going very well, too well.

474
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 2: I decided I needed more stress to bring my will

475
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: to maximum power. I turned to my old reliable method

476
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: of ordeal by fire. This test would have to exceed

477
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: all others in destruction of tissue and time of severe pain.

478
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: I selected a particularly strong willed black bank robber and

479
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: named texts with whom to engage in a battle of wills.

480
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: Ready with a box of wooden matches, I got him

481
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 2: into a discussion of the subject and pressed him to

482
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 2: the point where he expressed disbelief and challenged me. Because

483
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 2: I had been warned never again to indulge in that

484
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: practice near or on finger joints, and my palm was

485
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,719
Speaker 2: already burned out Jesus Christ Gordon, I had to go

486
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: back to where I started years before. My forearm. The

487
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: scars there were light strike a match, I said to text,

488
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 2: and locked my eyes onto his. He struck it and

489
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: held it out, not knowing what to do next. I

490
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: put the unburned outside of my left forearm directly over

491
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: the flame. As the fire burned through my flesh and

492
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: melted it back into a black and depression. A look

493
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: of horror came over Tex, but he stayed with it.

494
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: The match burned down and scorched his fingers before he

495
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: dropped it. I grinned his him as he looked at

496
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 2: the burn unbelievingly, then looked ill, got up and left.

497
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: So I know this is somewhat you're excerpting of this book,

498
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: but it is a little telling that I feel like,

499
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: over about four some hours now, the only moments of

500
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: human intimacy he seems to have is while he's burning himself.

501
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 2: Well, he's laying himself on fire.

502
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's really shocking.

503
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: This is both the kind of and well, I'm going

504
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: to starve myself to damage my body by by starving myself,

505
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: and I am going to engage in these kind of

506
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: self like this is the same as cutting I think yeah,

507
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of that going on here.

508
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: He has to frame it as this, like this is

509
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: wheel power.

510
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: I mean, or you know, it's like in as clearly

511
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 3: this is a very like you know, this autobiography is unedited. Essentially,

512
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: this is clearly what he's telling.

513
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 2: This is what he has to believe about it, right,

514
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: But like this is also something he pretty consistently goes

515
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: back to in times of like stress and anxiety. Speaking

516
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: of self harm, you know what, and human intimacy and

517
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: human intimacy you know what's fundamentally well, I don't know.

518
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: Self harm is much more complicated than that. But what's

519
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: not complicated is these ads, Oh we're back, We're back,

520
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: and we're talking about g Gordon Liddy, who you know.

521
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 2: I will say this, I bet one of the things

522
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: that will stop people from fucking with you in jail

523
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: is lighting yourself on fire while staring at them. That

524
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: does seem like an effective way to make someone be

525
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 2: like this guy's not worth it.

526
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: Like that's that is The weird thing is it's like

527
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 3: like he has he has this desire to cultivate this

528
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 3: like I survived prison, tough guy shit and the shit

529
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 3: that he's actually doing. He just like it's it's so

530
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 3: weird what he chooses to frame in which way, because

531
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 3: I just feel like this was how I chose to.

532
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 2: If he had really like, yeah, yeah, I wanted to

533
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: scare people, so I lit my I it permanently damaged

534
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: my skin without breaking eye contact. Because I thought the end,

535
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: like I would believe that I would be like, yeah, man,

536
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: does sound like something does sound like people would probably

537
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: give you a a little bit of space. Lyddy also

538
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: tells several stories of fights that he got in and

539
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: I don't really believe. Yeah, I will say I believe

540
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: he got in some fights because most people who spend

541
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: years in prison wind up having an altercation or to

542
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 2: a very least right, Yeah, these are never particularly glorious stories.

543
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: He tries to punch them up, like there's one where

544
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 2: somebody steals something and so we used to go and

545
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: like fight that guy is that other people weren't messed

546
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: with him, and he describes it as like a fair fight.

547
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: But he gets cut up hard prob Because this dude

548
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: has a fighting ring, which is a cheap ring with

549
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: the stone remove that will cut an opponent if you

550
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: punch them with it, and so he goes into loving

551
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 2: detail about how he like talks his way into buying

552
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: a fighting ring. He spends like a meaningful amount of

553
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: time telling us about how he gets this fighting ring

554
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: for himself, but he never uses it. Like he talks

555
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: a lot about all the weapons he acquires in prison,

556
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 2: and he doesn't he doesn't ever do anything with him.

557
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 3: He just needs tok in.

558
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: He needs you to know he has him knife catalog guy,

559
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 2: knife cat very very strong knife catalog guy energy. Yeah,

560
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 2: this dude has a knife shaped like an eagle with

561
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: an American flag. Absolutely yeah. So while his skill at

562
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: letting himself be severely burned for no reason convinced Liddy

563
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: that his will was inviolate, E Howard Hunt is not

564
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: doing so well right. Hunt is notably less satisfied spending

565
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: the rest of his life behind bars. He's got several kids.

566
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: And you know Hunt, you'll know this, at least if

567
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: you watch the White House Plumber show. His wife dies

568
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: in a mysterious plane crash, like while she's taking money

569
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: in between a member of these Watergate convicted guys. It's

570
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: very shady.

571
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: You know.

572
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: Hunt kind of made some statements about having knowledge of

573
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: the JFK thing. It's all a messy story. Hunt's also

574
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: a famous liar and fabulous, so I don't know how

575
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: much you want to read into that, but he is

576
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: in a bad position here, right, and he starts to

577
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: unravel pretty soon after they all go behind bars. Now,

578
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: Gordon becomes convinced that Hunt's betrayal would destroy his beloved Nixon,

579
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: so he starts preparing to carry out an assassination against

580
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: his old friend. Because Liddy is starving and deranged by

581
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: this point, she starts looking for hidden messages in his

582
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: limited communications with the Nixon people and mostly in newspaper articles.

583
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: He's sure that the Nixon campaign is going to send

584
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: him a message to kill e Howard Hunt via like

585
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: statements made to the papers and shit. Yeah, So he

586
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: sits down with his friend, this gangland figure who told

587
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: him that you can kill a guy with the price

588
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: of two cartons of cigarettes. He tells the dude, Nixon

589
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: hasn't told me through like the fucking Washington Post to

590
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: murder E Howard Hunt yet, but it's surely coming.

591
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get it on the schedule.

592
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get it on the schedule. Quote that precaution

593
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: out of the way. We decided quickly upon the method.

594
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: Hunt received special meals because of his history of ulcers.

595
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: In the parlance of the DC jail, it was a

596
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: diet tray. It was served to him in his cell

597
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: rather than in the CB four mess hall on the

598
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: first floor. Should I have ordered to kill Hunt, he

599
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: would be served a special meal. Indeed, it would contain

600
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: a legal poison. It's like nicotine, right, they're gonna like

601
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: because you can if you have cigarettes, you could like

602
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: basically concentrate the nicotine oil and pure nicotine. It's pretty

603
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: easy to kill someone with. That's his plan. Again, I

604
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: don't actually know that he knew anybody who had the

605
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: capacity to do that. Yeah, this is more bluster for

606
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: the book. The reality is that Hunt told Liddy, like

607
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: what actually happens. He talks a lot about how ready

608
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: he was to kill this guy, all the plans he had.

609
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: What really happen spens his Hunt tells Liddy, hey, man,

610
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: fuck Nixon, I'm gonna rat. You know, I'm gonna rat

611
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: for a better deal, And Lyddy pouts and refuses to

612
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: ever talk to him again. But he doesn't do anything else.

613
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: Nothing happens again, all hat no fucking cattle is the

614
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: way to summarize this guy's whole life. The most important

615
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: thing to know about Liddy's time behind bars is that

616
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: it served as a surrogate combat experience for him. That's

617
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: why he's so dedicated to this. Right, he never gets

618
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 2: to go to Korea, he never gets to fight anybody,

619
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,479
Speaker 2: he never gets to kill anybody, but he has this

620
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: public chance where all he has to do is sit

621
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: and be quiet, and he will build the reputation he's

622
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: always wanted as a hard, dangerous tough man.

623
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: Right.

624
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: It's really, it's quite easy. His wife has to go

625
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: through hell, right, his kids have to go through hell.

626
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: All he has to do is sit quietly in a

627
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: room for several years, and then he gets this thing

628
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: that means more than anything to him, proof that he's

629
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: a hero. Right, That's all he has to do. Is really,

630
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, the fact that he gets

631
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: caught and charged for Watergate is the best thing that

632
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: ever happens to him. Right, Yeah, Like somebody wants.

633
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: A psychological twist in that, Like, yeah, this is definitely

634
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: the best shit that's ever happened to him.

635
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 2: There's this, there's this, do you guys ever you guys

636
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: ever listen to the band DAWs.

637
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 4: Nope, not familiar.

638
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a I don't know, kind of a folk,

639
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: bluegrassy outfit. They got a song called When My Time

640
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: Comes that I think there's a line in it that

641
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: really well sums up kind of the young male attitude

642
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 2: about bravery, the attitude about like courage and heroism that

643
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: you have as a kid, as a dumb kid, that

644
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 2: I think leads a lot of people to like, you know,

645
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: joining the military and stuff like that. It inspires a

646
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: lot of Actually some of our worst behavior, there were

647
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: moments of dreams I was offered to save. I lived

648
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: less like a workhorse more like a slave. I thought

649
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: that one quick moment that was noble or brave would

650
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: be worth the most of my life. This thing that like,

651
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: and what's going on what they're talking about here is

652
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: this like this realization you get in as an adult

653
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: how complicated and difficult and messy and gray the world is,

654
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: and how nice it is to feel like you can

655
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: do just one thing. Yeah, if it's the right thing

656
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: at the right time, and then you've you've succeeded it

657
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: being a person, right, like, even if you die doing it.

658
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: At least you don't have to think anymore. Like, and

659
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: the reality is that like doing good is hard and complicated,

660
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: and like what his wife does, what Liddy's wife does

661
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: is by every measure, much more impressive, right yeah, Like

662
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: it's it's not fancy, it doesn't get you a career

663
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: as a media influencer, but like committing to care for

664
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: children for four and a half years alone, five kids

665
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: is so much more braver than sitting in a cell alone.

666
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: Right well, I think it's like the like thenita shortcut

667
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 3: silver bullet, like shoot the moon, of having a worthwhile life,

668
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 3: Like these fucking clouds are not even clouds. Lots of

669
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: people feel despair, and it's just like, well, this thing

670
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 3: will make me a person, This will do it. Just

671
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: get the lottery, Just get the right meaning of life

672
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: lottery ticket.

673
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's it. And he's gotten his lottery ticket,

674
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: So that's I do believe to an extent that he's

675
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: he's got morale behind him in this because he's he's

676
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: getting everything he wants from it. So I do suspect

677
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: that eventually, though, like like with anyone, like just being

678
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: locked up, being behind bars, being this situation, he does

679
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: start to grow deranged. And some of this is probably

680
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: because he's starving himself, which is not great for your

681
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: mental health. And Lily doesn't have the self awareness to

682
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: recognize this, but you see pieces of it in stories

683
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: he tells. Probably the best one that best embodies this

684
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: is he he tells one story of a time when

685
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: he's out, he's jogging in the yard. They've got wreck time,

686
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: so they're kind of outside. He's doing laps, and he

687
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: sees a dead rat on the ground right, this huge, nasty,

688
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 2: decompo dead rat, and he becomes instantly convinced that there's

689
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: another prisoner who's like kind of sitting nearby, and that

690
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: this guy picked up the rat from somewhere else and

691
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: put it down where Liddy would see it to fuck

692
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: with him, which is insane, Like, it is a prison,

693
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 2: there's rats, rats die, there's no reason for him to

694
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: think that another prisoner stuck the rat there. And also

695
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: it's like, so he just placed the rat kind of

696
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: vaguely near a chunk of the running path that you

697
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: might pass, Like, yeah, that doesn't seem likely, g Gordon Liddy,

698
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: that doesn't really seem like a taunt, even what.

699
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: From like putting yourself in their shoes, Like, what the

700
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: fuck was the plan? Dog?

701
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: So he gets so angry at this that he he

702
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: steps on the rotting rat to squish it and like

703
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: mash it up. And he picks up this like rancid, decomposing,

704
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: fetid carcass and he walks over to the guy with

705
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: it and he's like, here's a rat. And the guy's like,

706
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: what the fuck, I'm just trying to get some what

707
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: are you doing. And he's like, oh, the guard did it,

708
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 2: you're saying, And the guy is again like I don't

709
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: know what the fuck you're talking about.

710
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: Man.

711
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: Like it is again, even from Lyddy's pros, it's very

712
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: clear that everyone else is like, oh, this guy's fucking

713
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 2: lost it.

714
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and telling this story after the fact is what

715
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 3: I mean.

716
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's something you keep to yourself.

717
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: I think that is that's something you never tell anybody. Yeah,

718
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: maybe if you're like having an emotional conversation with your

719
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 2: loved ones afterwards, to tell them how bad it got. Anyway, whatever.

720
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: Lyddy is also peculiar in his time behind bars because

721
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 2: he is not just an unrepentant fascist, he's also a lawyer,

722
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: and he he does care to one extent about the

723
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: letter of the law, even though he's always even behind bars,

724
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: a strong supporter of mass incarceration. He's livid every time

725
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: his fellow inmates have their rights abused because he knows

726
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: what the jails and prisons are supposed to provide, and

727
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: he knows when they're falling short, and he can't stand

728
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 2: for it, and so he becomes a jail house lawyer

729
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: for everyone inside. And from everything I've read, he really

730
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: does quite a lot. He helps a number of these guys.

731
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: This is probably more than anything why he doesn't get

732
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 2: fucked with much, because like he really does provide a

733
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: service after a while to a lot of dudes. You know.

734
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: He helps them work through their cases. He gives them

735
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 2: advice on how to appear in court, he helps them

736
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: file motions and stuff to get things that they need.

737
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: He makes complaints, like on behalf of this, there's this

738
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: Jewish prisoner who's not getting kosher meals. He like gets

739
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: forces the prison to give this guy kosher meals. He

740
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: develops feuds with a couple of different prison officials. He's

741
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 2: in like eight different facilities, and I think his reasons

742
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: are genuine. Some of these prisons, like people get killed

743
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 2: doing dangerous work, and he's angry about that the food

744
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: is not of sufficient qualities, stuff like faucets and shit

745
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: in prison facilities aren't being maintained. And he understands who

746
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 2: to send letters to, what kind of letters to send,

747
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: who to threaten in order to force the system to

748
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: take action. And I think he's actually quite good at this,

749
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 2: And it's evidence that, like again, had he been a

750
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,439
Speaker 2: better person, a guy like Lyddy with these skills could

751
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 2: have helped a lot of people in his life.

752
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 3: You know, it's like so close, and it's so telling

753
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 3: that his own autobiography doesn't see what could be good

754
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 3: about him and what could be redeeming about him.

755
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: I think he's so weird. Yeah, he sees this as

756
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: good because it's bad for the system not to be consistent.

757
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 2: And he sees this as good because these people deserve anything.

758
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe I'm being too negative. Probably the

759
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: height of this behavior is when Gordon and more than

760
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: five hundred fellow inmates, he basically helps forces like a

761
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 2: hunger strike at a facility he's at. He gets five

762
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 2: hundred fellow inmates to refuse to eat food for several days.

763
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: It's the longest of three strikes at that facility that year,

764
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: and Liddy's leadership seems to be why the prison officials

765
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: are so frustrated with him that he gets transferred to

766
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 2: a maximum security facility afterwards. This is like, when he's

767
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: at a minimum security place, he does spend a period

768
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: of his bid behind bars in California because you know,

769
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: you remember he broke into that psychiatrist's office, Daniels. So

770
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: at a point in time he gets like sent over

771
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: to California because you got to do some time there

772
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 2: because some of your crimes are over there. He claims

773
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: that by this point he was famous in the prison system,

774
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 2: and he gets gifted with treats by his new neighbors

775
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: when he arrives. I don't disbelieve that necessarily. Number one,

776
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: he's probably got a good reputation. He helps people. He's

777
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 2: also famous, so like yeah, you know, straight up, yeah,

778
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: just straight up, like fame gets you places, right, But

779
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: then he goes into what is definitely a lie. He

780
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: tells an elaborate story about how one of the fellow

781
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: inmates in California is a kung fu master who just

782
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: happened to be locked up to and this guy is

783
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: from like you know, this guy is from China. He's

784
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: like traveled to the US and mysterious circumstances. But then

785
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: he gets locked up and like we become friends, and

786
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: Lyddy writes one of the most embarrassing paragraphs I've ever

787
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: read in my life. We worked out at the weights

788
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: together and finally at his side, and it might be

789
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: mutually advantageous to exchange instruction. He hesitated, then took me

790
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: aside and told me that he had never imparted such

791
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: knowledge to an occidental and friendship, was not sure he

792
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: ever should. He paused and studied me quietly. Finally he spoke,

793
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: you are a very violent man. I can see it

794
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: in your eyes. I control it, Lyddy said, you must.

795
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: If you ever use when I teach you to take

796
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: advantage of the week, I'll find you wherever you are

797
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: and kill you myself. Of all the things that have

798
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: never happened, this is the thing that's least happened in

799
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: the history of things that did.

800
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it is like a cut scene from

801
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 3: Mortal Combat.

802
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 2: Embarrassing. That is embarrassing. G Gordon Liddy under no way

803
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: did any of this now, it's not impossible that he

804
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: just met a Chinese American man who got locked up

805
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: and was like, yeah, light of this guy, Like, yes,

806
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: am I going to do Prison's boring? Right? Who believe

807
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: anything I say? Not a zero percent chance. Also, I

808
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: love the like you're a very violent man. No evidence

809
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: that g. Gordon Liddy successfully did violence on anyone in

810
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 2: his entire life, not one piece of evidence for this. God,

811
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: it's so funny. A sad thing to say. Yeah, speaking

812
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: of sad, you know what isn't sad the value that

813
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: our sponsors bring to our listeners' lives. In fact, I

814
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: don't know, Ian, would you say that our listeners' lives

815
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: actually have no value whatsoever if they don't purchase the

816
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 2: products that sponsor our show?

817
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 4: I think legally I have to say yes.

818
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you do, based on the contract you

819
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: had designed to get healthcare. Yeah. Anyway, here's a here's ads.

820
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: Oh what a good time? Feeling good, feeling fine? Has

821
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 2: everybody else great? This is amazing.

822
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 4: This is like one of the funniest things I've heard

823
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 4: all week.

824
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 2: So good good stuff. So, after meeting a kung fu

825
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: master and learning the secrets of the orients, Lydia round

826
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: up back on the East Coast. He was briefly released

827
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: due to like there's some court motions. I think this

828
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 2: is evidence that Peter Marulas is a pretty good lawyer.

829
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 2: He basically gets him a few weeks out of prison

830
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: to like be with his family based on the technicality

831
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 2: and like they know this isn't gonna last like this,

832
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: this is the kind of stuff a really good lawyer

833
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 2: can do for you, right.

834
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: Right, So spring break from prison.

835
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get a little spring break from prison. Then

836
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: he goes back in and he serves another two years.

837
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: He does fifty two months in total. On April twelfth,

838
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven, President Jimmy Carter, History's greatest monster, commutes

839
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 2: his sentence from twenty years to eight quote in the

840
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 2: interests of justice. Now, this is one of those moves

841
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: that I never understood, right when my knowledge of Woody

842
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 2: and Watergate was a little more casuals, Like, what the

843
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 2: fuck was Carter? Why would he do that? Like he's

844
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: not an idiot? Why would he Why would he pardoned

845
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: this very unbelievably guilty man. Hey, guys, Robert, here I misspeak.

846
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 2: The sentence was commuted, as I noted just a second ago,

847
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: I use the word pardon here. That's incorrect. A commutation

848
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: basically means that you're not questioning whether or not they

849
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: were guilty. They're still guilty, they're just out of incarceration

850
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 2: or whatever. This is significant in part because Wddy was

851
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 2: not legally able to own firearms for the rest of

852
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 2: his life. Although he still kept owning guns, he just

853
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 2: said they belonged to his wife. He shouldn't have been

854
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 2: able to like use them. But people don't come after

855
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: conservatives who get in trouble or hold them to any

856
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: of the standards of their bail or whatever. But Carter,

857
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 2: that always surprised me. Right Why Jimmy Carter, Why would

858
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 2: he get this guy out of there? The White House

859
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 2: spokesman said that the decision was made quote based on

860
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 2: a comparison of mister Liddy's sentence with all of those

861
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: others convicted in Watergate prosecutions. In other words, I think

862
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: it was Carter's personal sense of fairness. I believe this

863
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: is a bad call, but I get where he's coming from.

864
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: Right Lyddy, despite being in a repentant fascist, is the

865
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: most respectable of the White House people who go away

866
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: because he doesn't lie or obviously he's like, yeah, I'm guilty,

867
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: put me away. I will say nothing else. I'm not

868
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 2: gonna roll on anybody. And the fact that all of

869
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: these guys who I think are kind of worse in

870
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, you know, right Dean. Maybe Dean

871
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: is pretty consistent after Watergate of speaking out against the

872
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: extremism for up to the present day. Right, he's a

873
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 2: major figure of sort of being anti the modern Republican Party.

874
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: I think he might actually have eventually had kind of

875
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: a real change due to his conscience. Possibly, I'm not

876
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: certain of that. But all these other guys Erlickman and

877
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: Magruder and fucking E Howard Hunt, these people are fucking trash.

878
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: Haldomen And the fact that Lyddy does more time than them,

879
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 2: I think it may have just kind of frustrated Carter

880
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 2: because he was aware of that, and so he weirdly

881
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: thought it was unfair for Lyddy to stay. And I

882
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: don't think that's a good call, but I think that's

883
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 2: from everything I've read, I think that's why Carter made it.

884
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 3: It's the rest of the justice system is so fucked

885
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 3: that those people didn't go away for longer.

886
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still think Carter perfectly fine to be critical

887
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: of him for this choice, but I think that's why

888
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 2: it was made.

889
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

890
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Lyddy gets paroled and his wife picks him

891
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 2: up from jail. He had had plenty of time to

892
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: think while in prison, and I think he had developed

893
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 2: a pretty new wants to understanding that his future was

894
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: in media. He's watching TV and stuff, He's getting letters

895
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 2: from his family. All of these other Watergate guys are

896
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: putting out books that are often best sellers. So he's

897
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: wearing number one. Probably I need to write a book

898
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 2: about this. There's probably a lot of money in that.

899
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: And number two, I can't work for a campaign anymore.

900
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 2: I certainly can't be a lawyer anymore. But I can

901
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: charlay my fame and my fame, particularly for being this

902
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: like hard headed, unbreakable soldier of the far right into

903
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 2: a career. He understands, as long as I stay consistent,

904
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: this can keep me fed forever. Right, And you know,

905
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: he is very famous. There's a crowd that gathers at

906
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: the prison on the day of his release, and when

907
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: he does like a press conference, when his wife picks

908
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: him up and reporters her questions at him. Everyone wants

909
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: to know where he's headed. Liddy gives a cryptic answer

910
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 2: to that one. He says east of the sun and

911
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: west of the moon. Now, any time he says anything

912
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: that he clearly didn't write it, I'm like, gotta know

913
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 2: if that's some Nazi shit it is not. This comes

914
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: from a Norwegian folk tale. I went in and read

915
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: it just to be like, is there any like racist

916
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: stuff in there? Not that I saw. It's seems to

917
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: be an adaptation of an older Greek myth. One of

918
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: the things I learned looking into this is that researchers, scientists,

919
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 2: or whatever who study folk tales, I guess anthropologists have

920
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: a classification system where they like group different kinds of

921
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: folk tales by their type, and this one qualifies as

922
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: type ATU for twenty five A. The Search for the

923
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: Lost Husband or the Animal as Bridegroom. The gist of

924
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of a Beauty and the Beast

925
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 2: kind of story. The gist of it is that there's

926
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 2: this white bear that comes to a poor family and

927
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 2: it's like, if you give me your your daughter's hand

928
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 2: in marriage, I'll make you rich. The bear is secretly

929
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: like a cursed prince, right, and when she finds out,

930
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: he's like, look, if you as long as you if

931
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 2: you don't follow these very specific rules, I'll be sent

932
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 2: to live with an evil witch and she lives east

933
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: of the on and west of the moon. Anyway, that's

934
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 2: where the line comes from. Nothing Nazi that I found

935
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 2: in it.

936
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 3: But it feels like, given the way his brain works,

937
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: that was supposed to be some kind of code to

938
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 3: the true you know someone's and it just will never

939
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 3: know whatever the fuck his trade of thought was impossible.

940
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't give a good explanation as to why

941
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 2: he picked that one to reference. It is a pretty

942
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 2: good cryptic sounding thing to say. I'll give him that.

943
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 2: The other question he gets asked is how it feels

944
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 2: to be out of prison, and Lyddy replies in German,

945
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: what does not kill me makes me stronger. And it

946
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: is true that, like Hitler, Liddy seems to mostly have

947
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: benefited from his time behind bars. This seems to work

948
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 2: out a lot of times for fascists, especially when you

949
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: cut their sentence in half and don't just really put

950
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: the screws to the fuckers. Maybe a lesson for other folks.

951
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 2: The Washington Post sat down with his family right around then,

952
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 2: and they published an article that gives us some fascinating

953
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: glimpses of their lives. While Gordon was away at the

954
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: house in Oxen Hill, the color television was on yesterday

955
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: and a sound tape recorder was nearby so the boys

956
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: could capture any reports concerning their father's release. Two dogs

957
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: relaxed on the living room couch outside the famili's fifteen

958
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: or twenty cats minded their own business. Just had to

959
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: tell you that last bit there. The ladies have fifteen

960
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 2: to twenty cats.

961
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 3: That's too many cats.

962
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 2: I love cats. That's too many cats.

963
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: That's hard.

964
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 2: That's a crazy amount of cats. Yeah, anyway, good to know, though,

965
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: interesting color on the family here. So this piece reveals

966
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 2: that the Liddies had purchased copies of every other Watergate

967
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 2: memoir they could get their hands on. I think this

968
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 2: is so that they can help their dad when he

969
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 2: has to write his own memoir. And you know, I'll

970
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: give him credit. I've read a number of Watergate memoirs.

971
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 2: His is the best. Not in terms of its accuracy,

972
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 2: none of them are trustworthy, but it's it's the most readable.

973
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 2: You can't put it down. He is actually this is

974
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 2: one of the things he is actually good at, one

975
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 2: of the only things that he's legitimately a skilled with.

976
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: He's a pretty good writer. Like he's he's effective. He's

977
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 2: not like an artistic writers, like he's not fucking you know,

978
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: Cormack McCarthy or whatever, but he is. He's extremely effective.

979
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: He's very clear, he understands how to pace things. You're

980
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: never bored, you know you. I read the whole book

981
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: through cover to cover, and I was at a pretty

982
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: consistent level of interest the whole time, partly because it's

983
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 2: so crazy. But he doesn't get in his own way

984
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: right with his pros, So I'll give him credit for that.

985
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 2: He's not a bad writer. The most interesting thing that

986
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: Washington Post Piece gives us as a snapshot is an

987
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 2: understanding of how deep the Liddy family's Nixon derangement went.

988
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 2: Quote Jim and Tom Liddy said they had watched the

989
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: end of the first episode of Washington Behind Closed Doors.

990
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: They said they are not angry at Nixon for referring

991
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 2: in the Frost interview to those involved in the Watergate

992
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: operation as nuts. I don't blame him for anything. He's

993
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: gone through so much, said Dom poor Dick Nixon, the

994
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 2: real victim of Watergate.

995
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 3: Oh, just the ultimate, the ultimate fascist since.

996
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: These people, yeah, it is. It is remarkable. I didn't

997
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 2: know people could be that fascist, But by God, now

998
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 2: the most important thing you get here is an understanding

999
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: of what a nightmare this whole period behind bars is

1000
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: for missus Liddy. In addition to being the breadwinner, she

1001
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: has to raise their adolescent children alone. Quote their mother,

1002
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 2: Tom Liddy said, is having it harder than we are

1003
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: holding the place financially together, Jim said, finishing his brother's sentence.

1004
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 2: There were ups and downs, but she went through all

1005
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 2: of them. And then the mentions of the Liddy marriage

1006
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: have always been kind of confusing to me. They are

1007
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: together for fifty four years. I have heard speculation that

1008
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: he cheated on her at one or more points. It's

1009
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 2: common enough that I think there might be something to it,

1010
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I haven't seen any evidence of

1011
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: it either, certainly nothing that's like conclusive. Some of what

1012
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: he writes about her does seem to me to be

1013
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 2: borderline abuse. Of the clearest example of that comes right

1014
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: after his release, when she picks him up from prison.

1015
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 2: Lyddy saw what, he claims, as she's driving away from

1016
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 2: the prison, he sees four he calls them, four cream

1017
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: colored Ford Grenadas with New York license plates that identify

1018
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: them as press cars that start following him, tracking him

1019
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: as they're leaving the jail. Now I looked into it.

1020
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: New York does issue special marked plates for journalists. You know,

1021
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 2: you have to be with a pretty big outlet to

1022
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 2: get them, but that is a thing that they do.

1023
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 2: Lyddy claims that he had Fran drive slowly at first

1024
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: so they could all get a shot of him, and

1025
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 2: he hoped they would leave, but they keep following him.

1026
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 2: Fran tries to lose them, but Lyddy writes, quote, she's

1027
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 2: just not cut out for that sort of thing. So

1028
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 2: Lyddy the man has to take charge and save them

1029
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 2: from these these journalist cars that are tracking them, because

1030
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 2: obviously he's got the FBI. We're gonna talk in part

1031
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: two about his FBI driving. We get a chance to

1032
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: test him when he's on fear Factor. As a spoiler

1033
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: for a where this whole episode is.

1034
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

1035
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: We come to a Joe Rogan point at the end here,

1036
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,959
Speaker 2: panning off the fat but anyway, so Lyddy the man

1037
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 2: has to take charge. Pull over? What you heard me?

1038
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 2: Pull over? We're putting in the first team, but you're

1039
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,479
Speaker 2: not even ensured. Don't argue with me. Goddamn it. Pull over.

1040
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 3: God.

1041
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 2: So he takes over behind the wheel, but he can't

1042
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 2: lose the tail, right. It doesn't matter that he's taken over,

1043
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: because he's no better at this than her. And an

1044
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: honest observer might conclude from this that, like, maybe you

1045
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 2: don't actually know anything about losing a tail, ge Gordon Liddy,

1046
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 2: maybe you have absolutely no skills driving in this manner.

1047
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: But he can't admit this, and he writes that he

1048
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: told his wife, I know they've got more cylinders and radios,

1049
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: but nobody stays with me when I don't want him to.

1050
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: There's something wrong here. I know, I guess they do.

1051
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 2: His solution to this problem is to drive like even

1052
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 2: more of a maniac. He like does a one point

1053
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 2: eighty in the middle of like a busy.

1054
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 3: Street, like and shit.

1055
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 2: This terrifies his wife. She has spent close to half

1056
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: a decade dealing with all of this unimaginable stress on

1057
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 2: his behalf. She picks him up, probably not entirely certain

1058
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 2: how the man that she married is going to be

1059
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: different after five almost five years a prison, and then

1060
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 2: he immediately goes insane on the highway, shouting about imaginary

1061
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 2: people following them.

1062
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 3: I mean, to her comfort, it's nice that he hasn't

1063
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 3: changed in prison.

1064
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 2: I guess maybe quote it was a challenge. I couldn't resist,

1065
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: and I took off, hitting over seventy miles per hour

1066
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 2: through city streets, going through red lights deliberately and taking

1067
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 2: turns at the limit of adhesion. By the time I

1068
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 2: got into Jersey, there were only two tails left, and Franz,

1069
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 2: scared at her wits, was crying uncontrollably.

1070
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1071
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: So's his wife is just sobbing, and he's like, no,

1072
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 2: I did a good job. Only two guys are still

1073
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 2: following us.

1074
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, two out of four. You know that radio exist.

1075
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: You are still being tailed ge Gordon Lyddy. Lyddy eventually

1076
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 2: claims he lost the tale. I don't think he relieved.

1077
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: I don't believe that at all. Maybe they lived in

1078
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 2: Jersey and we're glad like yeah. After an extremely long journey,

1079
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,479
Speaker 2: which he says that his basically him failing to lose

1080
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: this tale, and traumatizing his wife is a victory, a

1081
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 2: symbolic victory of his triumph over Judd Sri Rika Quote

1082
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: and his allies in the press. And I love that

1083
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 2: he sees it that way because it's like, man, the

1084
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 2: New York Times argued, you should be released. The press

1085
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 2: are your only real friends. Yeah, like Nixon threw you

1086
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 2: under the bus. The media held you up because they

1087
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: wanted to like make money writing stories about you. Your

1088
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 2: whole career came from the fact that the press were

1089
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: your allies. Anyway.

1090
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 3: Whatever, Although that's classic, I mean that playbook gets repeated

1091
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 3: so much more in the people who he influenced.

1092
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 2: Lyddy is so overjoyed at his victory over this tale

1093
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 2: that he starts singing the lyrics from his favorite song,

1094
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: which comes from the play. Now this comes from I

1095
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: expected him to like sing, I don't know my country

1096
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 2: tis the He picks a song from the musical Cabaret,

1097
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 2: which he had and it's a song that he modified

1098
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 2: quote to suit myself. The lyrics go America, America, show

1099
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 2: us the sign your children have waited to see. The

1100
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: morning will come when the world is thine. Tomorrow belongs

1101
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 2: to thee. Now that could be kind of innocuous, right,

1102
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 2: But when I saw that line, especially the part about

1103
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 2: how he had reworked the lyrics of the song to

1104
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 2: see himself, I had to look into it a little deeper.

1105
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 2: The song he was singing that he had modified is

1106
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 2: called Tomorrow Belongs to Me, which could be fascy, and

1107
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 2: in fact is because it's from a nineteen sixty six Cabarets,

1108
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: a nineteen sixty six musical, and it's written by two

1109
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 2: Jewish musicians right, who are lampooning at the fascist qualities

1110
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 2: that they and American nationalism. The specific song Tomorrow Belongs

1111
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: to Me is sung by a Nazi in the play.

1112
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: It is specifically a Nazi song about his view of

1113
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: patriotism that Lee has modified and is kind of like

1114
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: unronically singing because he is such a fucking fascist, and

1115
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 2: in fact he's not the only to do this. Nazis

1116
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 2: love this is an example of like kind of failed satire,

1117
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 2: because Nazis love the song Tomorrow Belongs to Me. They

1118
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: love it so much that they have been adapting it

1119
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: for their own albums and pre printing lines from it

1120
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: in their propaganda since the nineteen seventies. The first use

1121
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: of the song by a white power band that we

1122
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 2: have documentation of was the year before Liddy published his

1123
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 2: autobiography Will nineteen seventy nine, when British Nazi band Screwdriver

1124
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 2: does a cover of it. Screwdriver are like hardcore fucking

1125
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: fascist musicians. Swedish Nazi singer Saga also records the cover

1126
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 2: of this song, which is cited by Norwegian mass shooter

1127
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 2: Anders Brevik as one of the things that inspired him

1128
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 2: to gun down like seventy children. So yeah, great love

1129
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 2: that she Gordon Lyddy is singing this.

1130
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 3: I mean, so unsurprising, but.

1131
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 2: Very very This might be the most direct Nazi thing

1132
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 2: that I've seen him do.

1133
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 3: Right, And that's pretty impressive, pretty.

1134
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 2: And that he's said a lot. Lyddy claims at the

1135
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 2: end that after belting out this fascist anthem, his wife

1136
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 2: looks over at him with tears in her eyes and says, God,

1137
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 2: after all these years, you haven't changed at all. She

1138
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 2: blew her nose lustily than side. I don't suppose you

1139
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 2: ever will. I grinned over at her. Bet your ass, kid,

1140
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

1141
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 4: How does someone blow their nose lustily?

1142
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 2: That's a great question, Ian, I don't think they do,

1143
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 2: but maybe snot perverts right those have Yeah, there's gotta

1144
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 2: be there's there has to be a thriving online snot

1145
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 2: pervert community definitely, like that has a larger GDP than Liechtenstein, right,

1146
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 2: the number of the amount of money and snot pervert stuff.

1147
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 2: You can you could start your own city outside of

1148
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 2: Sicton Valley. That's where we're going to close things out

1149
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 2: for today because this is basically where his book ends.

1150
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 2: Don't worry, we have a lot more to say about

1151
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 2: g Gordon Liddy, but this is kind of the endpoint

1152
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 2: of his his autobiography. Will so Andrew you anything to plug?

1153
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, since the last episode, we triumphed over the

1154
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 3: fucking AMPTP asterisk.

1155
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 2: You know, eat their asses?

1156
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, better better than anyone ever thought labor fucking works. Yeah,

1157
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 3: Strike is over. I don't know. I'm not going back

1158
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 3: to a writer's room, so I'm back to just the hustle.

1159
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 3: But I don't know. Still still Jos, this racist still

1160
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 3: got premium shows. We did a little Strike wrap up

1161
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 3: that I think people found informative, So I don't know,

1162
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 3: check it out.

1163
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hi, hire Andrew put him in a room. I

1164
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 2: know David S. Goyer always listens to the podcast, so

1165
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: you know, bring him on.

1166
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 3: Well we still got, we still got you know, if

1167
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 3: we can just get someone to see the vision of

1168
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 3: super Soaker full of piss, there's two options. A lot

1169
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 3: of irons of the fire, a lot.

1170
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: Of irons in the fire. I'm pushing Goyer specifically because

1171
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 2: it's my dream that you'll get You'll get staffed on

1172
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 2: Foundation and then I can parlay that into having lunch

1173
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: with Lee Pace, which is my life.

1174
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 3: Said well, yeah, that my promise to you. I guess

1175
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 3: we'll do that.

1176
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there, there we go, just a minute out Burg.

1177
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be anything fancy, you know, it

1178
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 2: can be fancy Lee if you want it to be

1179
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 2: ye any to you. This has been behind the Bastards.

1180
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 2: If you want to listen to this show and all

1181
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 2: of our other shows free of ads. Cool Zone what

1182
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: do we cool Zone? Cooler Zone thanks a Cooler Zone

1183
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 2: Media subscribe. It's not very much money and there's no ads.

1184
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 2: So if you're doing a road trip, if you have

1185
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 2: a long if you have like a nine hour drive,

1186
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 2: and you're like, you know, it'll get me and my

1187
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 2: family through. This nine hour drive is learning a disastrous

1188
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 2: amount about g Gordon Liddi.

1189
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 4: You can do that.

1190
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 3: Without ads, you know.

1191
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, so it's fifty cooler, all right, Everybody go

1192
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 2: to Hell. I Love You.

1193
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1194
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

1195
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1196
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast