WEBVTT - Betrayal Weekly: EP 12 - Dr. Kerry, Part 1 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:02.960 One of the other things he did in that first 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.360 date that was odd is he said to me I'd 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:11.360 been researching widows. And my thought was, oh, he saw 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.880 that about my profile. He's been going out to understand 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:18.279 my particular issues. Now, looking back, I think it means 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.560 something else, but I didn't know that at the time. 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.080 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.279 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:49.280 change everything. Carrie McAvoy is a clinical psychologist based in Michigan. 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.440 They saw clients in private practice for nearly twenty years. 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.680 What was exciting about working with clients was that I 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.840 could see really dramatic shifts in a relatively short time 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.240 when there was a lot of motive and effort, and 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.920 to me, it felt like a sacred privilege to work 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:05.280 with them. 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.240 Even though she studies human behavior for a living, she 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.280 found herself caught in a web of lies and manipulation. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.800 Everyone somehow assumes a psychologists are like above human, superhuman. 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.560 We should know we should be excellent reads of people. Yeah, 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.880 I'm good reads of people, but when it comes to myself, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.640 I'm not always so good because then my personal perceptions 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.720 get involved. Anyone can fall for something like this, you 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.520 just haven't met the sophisticated enough predator. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.399 And when Carrie was at her most vulnerable, she met 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:41.800 a predator who would derail her own life. Carrie grew 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:43.520 up on a dairy farm in Michigan. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.640 I think it had an active herd of sixty eight cows, 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.600 and we are expected to be a part of the 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.880 milking process. So my three sisters and I went to 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.760 work and start farming along with my dad. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.360 She was the oldest of her three sisters. 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:58.480 We were supposed to be good girls. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:00.320 And out of the good girls. 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.120 I was known as the best, the goodest, the one 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:05.760 that did everything right, the teacher's favorite. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.200 On the outside, they were an idyllic American farming family. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.360 But there was abuse and neglect going on in the family. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:16.840 There was secrets that we were keeping. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.600 Carrie and her little sister were being abused by a 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:21.360 family member. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.160 Her and I had shared a room and the abuse 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:25.920 was going on in the room, and either it would 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.280 be she was hurt or I was hurt. 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.400 It was a trauma that shaped Carrie's worldview. She retreated 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.200 into herself, and her safe space was school. She channeled 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.840 all of her energy into becoming a straight A student. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.239 When she was fourteen, she read a magazine article about psychology. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:46.920 I thought, Oh, that's it. That's what I want to be. 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.440 I want to be a psychologist. I really wanted to 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.520 sort of decode a person. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.440 She knew it would take years of school to earn 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.360 a PhD in psychology, and that became her singular goal. 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.399 So I did colle in three years. I probably could 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.160 have done it in two and a half years because 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.960 I was moving so fast and getting credit so fast. 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.120 Between my freshman and sophomore year, I worked up north 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.799 at a touristtown in northern Michigan City, Mackinawe Island, and 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:16.519 that's where I met Brad. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.720 She hadn't dated much before college. High school guys just 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.920 didn't understand her, but Brad seemed different. 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.600 He and I started talking, and sure enough we just clicked. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:34.880 By the end of the night, we were around a 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.040 bonfire telling ghost stories and I was really tired, so 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.680 I laid my head on his knee. He put his 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.400 hand on my shoulder, and I felt like I came home. 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.040 It was an amazing feeling. 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.160 After that night, they were inseparable. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.040 He was really loyal. He was the kind of guy 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.080 if he told you, I'm going to help you move, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.080 which he did do that. He would tell people, even 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:58.560 people he didn't know very well, I'm going to help 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.160 you move. If he woke up that with the stomach flu, 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.520 he would still go to help you move, so you 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.840 could just count on him. He was a man of 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:06.360 his word. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.400 When she got into a PhD program in California, Brad 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:12.000 went with her. 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.880 Brad had a big belief in me, who used like 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.839 a cheerleader champion of me. If I wanted to do something, 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.120 he supported that. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.279 And in graduate school she needed his support. 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.520 I would literally fall into bed at night almost in 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.159 tears because I'd worked the whole day, get up do 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.640 it again. While you're trying to get ready for exams 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.360 and have papers written, and you have course reading lists 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.719 that are impossible to get through. It was so hard, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.800 and Brad created space for that. He never once complained 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:48.000 about my lack of availability. He just was super supportive. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.160 She earned her PhD in clinical psychology, and she got 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.960 her first job in the field, working at a psychiatric hospital. 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.240 I got to see the psychopathology class onto what did 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.120 a borderline personality look like, what did bipolar disorder? What 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.440 do the different subtypes of schizophrenia look like? What does 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.880 it look like when someone has a psychotic break. 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.840 She was getting a lot of experience, and in the meantime, 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.440 she and Brad decided to start a family. Over the 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.760 next few years, they had three sons, but pregnancy took 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.039 a toll on her body, one that she was not expecting. 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.640 I had a massive hair shed where I lost most 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.200 of my hair from that pregnancy. It was a shock. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.480 So here I am weaning my two year old and 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:40.640 my hair is falling out, which was devastating, just devastating. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.440 I mean, we literally evaluate women on the quality of 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.160 their hair. For me to know this is not changeable, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:48.880 I'm not ever going to get this back. I'm going 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.520 to have to face the world like this. It took 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.560 me over ten years to deal with it. 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.599 Even though she had wigs. The hair loss took away 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.960 her self confidence and her sense of self. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.760 I became suicidal for a while, not actively, but just like, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.520 what's the point, you know? I felt trapped by it, 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.320 struggled to go out into the public. I mean, it 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.080 was bothering me enough that I had literal nightmares over 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.520 being found out or having people discover this. I just 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.680 felt terribly exposed. 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.240 But Brad wasn't bothered by it at all. He and 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.520 their three boys became her refuge. 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.080 We got a little old camper up on northern Michigan 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.880 and sat on the lake every summer, and it was fun. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.359 It was just a really really good period of life 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:35.800 for us. Busy, but really good. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.760 Carrie built her own practice as a clinical psychologist and 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:41.640 Brad worked as a civil engineer. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.520 The degree that we had this partnership really shined. We 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.320 agreed on how we spent money. We were making good decisions, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.560 trying to pay off debt, get rid of my student loan, 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.440 those types of things, get in a good financial position. 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.840 Their priority was saving for an early retirement. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.200 Our plan was once the child's out of the home, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.080 he was going to quit working, when we were going 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.159 to focus more on the last part of our lives. 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.400 I thought we'd have a second honeymoon, and so that 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:08.040 was our plan. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.800 When they were both fifty, they started working with an 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.640 architect to design their dream home, the house they'd grow 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:15.080 old in. 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.320 And he and I spent enormous amount of time with 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.840 an architect designing this really gorgeous farm style house with 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.640 even part of it with a metal roof so I 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:25.560 could listen to the rain. 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.360 They were about to start construction when Brad got sick. 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.080 Brad started vomiting just unexpectedly. 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:39.800 At first, they didn't think much of it. 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.640 He kept thinking he knew what it was, you know. 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.200 He thought he had problems with milk, so he stopped 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.120 drinking milk. And then he thought maybe he's gluten sensitive, 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:49.520 so he started watching gluten. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.560 But the symptoms only got worse, so they decided to 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:54.600 see a specialist. 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.680 They said that we found a tumor, and I knew 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.320 the news was bad while we were waiting for the 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:01.400 biopsy to come back. 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.240 It was a rare form of stomach cancer. Carrie immediately 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.920 started researching, preparing a list of questions for the doctors. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:16.160 It was extremely pessimistic, like less than five percent make 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.320 it five years, so this is terminal. 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.040 But no one had said this to them yet, so 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:25.640 she asked the doctor directly. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:28.960 I remember going in and sitting across from him in 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.600 the desk, and I said, tell me the truth. Did 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.920 you just tell me last night that Brad was dying? 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:42.800 And he said yes. I collapsed and I started weeping, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.920 and then you know, we had this really practical talk 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:52.160 about what does that mean. I said, so, if he 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.000 does chemotherapy, how much time will he gain? He said 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.840 he might live twelve months. And I said, if we 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:03.040 don't do chemotherapy, how long will he live? And he 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:09.200 said maybe six. So we walked out and he said, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.200 I'm not doing chemotherapy. It just doesn't make sense. I 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.920 don't want to be sicker. So we then decided we're 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.720 going to make the best of that time that we 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:19.760 had left. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.480 They wanted to go on one last vacation together, just 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:27.000 the two of them. They went to Jamaica, where they 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.439 hired a driver to take them to the most beautiful 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:30.559 beaches on the island. 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.440 The chauffeur took us up up on a cliff and 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.760 let us get out and walk up to the edge, 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.720 and Brad stood there with me and he said, you 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.440 know you could do this, don't you. You know you 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.240 could travel, live abroad and start again. 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.480 He wanted her to live life to the fullest after 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:51.120 he was gone, to pursue her wildest dreams. That vacation 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.120 in Jamaica would be one of their last good memories 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.760 together before his cancer progressed. 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.720 I stopped working and just focused on him, and he 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.079 would say, the taxes are too high. They're too high. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.720 We can't afford the tat you'd like. In his stumbly way, 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.040 he would say that, and it hit me. He's saying 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.000 it's taxing me too much. This is costing me too much. 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:15.480 And then I would look at him and I'd say, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.200 if this is Mount Everest, I would carry you up 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.720 to the top on my back. I can do this. 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:27.920 I have it in me to do this, and he'd say, okay, okay, okay. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:29.880 I needed quiet. Back down again. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.920 Five and a half months after the diagnosis, Brad died 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.880 at home with Carrie by his side. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.640 A former client of mine sent me a note of 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.600 a welch word that's hereth I'd never heard of it before, 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.600 and it stands for a home that's lost, that can 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:57.240 never be found again, a homesickness of a home that 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.920 you're looking for that you can't find. And that's what 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:07.000 it felt like. I cried every single day. I didn't 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.400 know if I would survive the pain. My chest ached, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:12.440 my heart ached. 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.440 Her youngest son was a senior in high school, and 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.240 that Christmas they were lost without Brad. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.640 I didn't know this until we lost him. He was 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:27.480 the glue that held us together. We had so little 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.520 energy that Christmas we basically handed each other the boxes 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.360 that they came in from. What of her company we 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.960 bought it from. We couldn't even wrap it. There's just 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:37.000 no energy to do that. 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.840 Before he got sick, the couple had made smart financial 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:45.920 decisions to protect their future. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:50.640 Between Brad's pension retirement as well as the life insurance policy. 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.200 I was sacked comfortably for the rest of my life. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:54.720 I would never have to work again. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.240 But the money was little comfort. She would trade it 0:11:58.280 --> 0:11:59.920 all just to have Brad back. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.640 How do you find that again in your fifties and 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.679 how do you replace this life that you build? I 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:09.679 wanted it back, That's what I wanted. I want her 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:10.800 life that I had back. 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.160 So in her grief, Carrie made a snap decision. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.400 And I'm ashamed of it, honestly, but I wanted out 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.600 of this pain so bad. I started dating really fast, 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.640 thinking that maybe I could just find someone and put 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.600 that person in the slot and this would fix all 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:25.800 of this. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.240 After Carrie McAvoy's husband passed away, she retired early from 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:52.840 her clinical psychology practice. Without him, she felt lost and 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.240 wanted desperately to find love again. 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.480 It was maybe four to five months after Brad passed away. 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:00.439 I had my date. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.000 Her first date was with another widower, someone who would 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:06.760 understand what she'd been through. 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.559 It was a weird date because we just talked about 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.559 how painful it was being widowed and how much that 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.520 person had left a hole in her life. It was sweet. 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.280 I appreciate meeting him, but it was just sort of like, 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.240 I get your pain, but we're not really a match, 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.280 but thank you for that. It went out with a 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.840 few other men, and then it started taking it more seriously, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.800 you know, once I got my feet underneath me and 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:32.520 figured out what this was like. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.120 It was a good distraction. Carrie threw herself into a 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.480 series of first dates. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.360 And so much so that I was getting exhausted. I 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.080 thought it would be simple to find somebody. I also 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.760 thought it would be easier that there'd be more compatibility 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:48.400 with more people. 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.480 Brad was always her biggest supporter, not just in her 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:58.240 career but emotionally, and without him, her self esteem faltered. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:05.000 I'm not a thin woman, I'm highly educated. I actually 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.080 went out with somebody from my practice for dinner, and 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.120 she said, you're going to have a hard time finding 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:15.079 love again. You're too smart, you're too educated, and you're 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.679 too old, and I ad it in my head and 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:19.480 I'm too fat. 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.040 Dating again was more difficult than she anticipated. It was 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:25.040 becoming too much. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.800 I started to become really discouraged, so I decided I 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.920 needed to take a break and that I was going 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:33.960 to close my dating apps and just stop. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.320 But her dating app subscription had just renewed for another 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:41.560 three months and she couldn't get a refund, so she 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.040 took it as a sign. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.120 So it was literally within a few days of that 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.960 that a handsome man's profile passed my preview. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.080 His name was Caesar. In his profile picture, he's standing 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:54.720 at the top of the Sears Tower. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.280 It felt like I was seeing a GQ shoot. He's 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:03.400 wearing a knit shirt with slacks. It's almost like he's 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.720 missing the coat slung over his shoulder. My first thought 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.960 of Caesar was he's really good looking, and he had 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.000 a look on his face like I can't wait to 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:12.360 meet you. 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.240 He even listed his deal breakers right on his profile. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.040 No tattoos, no piercings, besides earrings, no atheists and no 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.520 pet owners. And they even wrote after going out with 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.359 a few dates and finding out there's these big discrepancies, 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.440 I thought it would be more helpful if I just 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.760 come out and say these are my deal breakers. A 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.840 little arrogant, but on the other hand, at least he 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.960 was more upfront than those who say I have a 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.560 super fit lifestyle and want someone who values that, which 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.680 is code for I want a slim woman. 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.440 She was amused and attracted to his profile, but ultimately 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:50.720 she decided. 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:52.560 This is the person who's out of my league. I 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.120 felt like I was a solid six next to this nine, 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.200 and I just like passed on by. I didn't swipe left, 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.120 I just didn't do anything with the profile. But the 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.760 next day, this was one of those apps ate lunch 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.000 who view who viewed your profile, and it said he 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.840 looked and I thought, you know what, why not reach 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.280 out and say something? So I just said, what a 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.520 nice profile. Seems like you and I had some things 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:17.160 in common. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.400 They both lived in the Midwest a few hours apart, 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.720 and both had adult children, so she asked. 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.080 Him, would you like to see if we have more 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.960 in common? And he wrote back and he said, yeah, 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.440 that would be nice. That's how our connection started. 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.600 They started talking every day. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.200 After a few weeks. It's going great and it's sweet. 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.400 He and I both agreed it was time to meet. 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.200 We decide that we're going to go out to Lake 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.160 Michigan for the day and just kind of enjoy the beach. 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.920 I'll pack a picnic for the two of us that Sunday. 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.920 They met in person for the first time. He looked 0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:00.600 just like his photos, handsome, kind eyes, huge smile. She 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.320 was surprised by his enthusiasm. 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:08.080 He's a very loud person, very charismatic, dynamic person. The 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.600 introvert to me was like, that's a lot. I felt overwhelmed. 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.200 My first inclination was like ooh ooh. I mean he's 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.240 gesturing and his voice is booming. Brad, by the way, 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.880 it was extremely quiet. Our first data had to say, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.280 if you don't start talking, this relationship is going to 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.280 go nowhere. So picture of the differences between that. 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.639 He was a gentleman. He wanted to unload all the 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:31.920 picnic supplies she brought. 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.879 He swings something away from me to not let me help. No, No, 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:40.680 it's your turn to be taken care of. It's your turn. Okay, 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.320 so I walked down to the edge of the water 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.280 with him. We find a spot and we sit there 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:46.800 and we just start to talk. 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.400 And one of the first things he wanted to talk 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.399 about was what it was like to be a widow. 0:17:54.520 --> 0:18:00.000 He said, I'd been researching widows, and my thought was, Oh, 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.679 this is something I would do. I would research widows 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.119 to understand my partner. I thought, Oh, he saw that 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.600 about my profile. He's been going out to understand my 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.320 particular issues. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.720 Just like his dating profile suggested. He was direct. He 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.119 didn't want to waste their time, so he said there 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.520 were a few things she should know right up front. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.320 I need to let you know that I've been married 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.359 more than once, and I want to do this differently. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:25.880 I want a forever relationship. 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.880 They talked about how and why his earlier marriages failed. 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.520 His explanations weren't very in depth, but they all seemed 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:35.560 reasonable enough. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.320 And then he stopped and he said, I came from 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.679 a really rough home. And he began to describe some 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:45.560 of the dynamics that was happening in the house. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.359 He began divulging dark details about his childhood, stories of 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.760 family secrets and abuse, and. 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.920 I'm thinking this is a first date. I wouldn't get 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.000 into this with another person. This is kind of uncomfortable history. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.159 And I end up thinking, so how much of my 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.320 history should I be saying? Because he's exposed so much 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.119 of himself, will he think I'm being secretive if I 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.080 don't share that back? 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.119 So instead she turned to the picnic she packed, and 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:17.440 to her surprise. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.199 I forgot all the cold items in the refrigerator. So 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.800 here I have this picnic, no meat, no tomatoes, just 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:29.440 has bread, lettuce, chips, and fruit. You know, everything else 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:30.360 is missing. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.520 So much further picnic lunch because I. 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:35.679 Was feeling one of those moments like oh no, I 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.040 blew this date. And He's like, no, no, this is 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.280 no big deal. And then he suggested at the end, 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.879 let's go out to eat and see a movie because 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:45.560 we were starving by that point. 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.119 She liked that he was flexible, he was going with 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.200 the flow. After dinner and a movie, he handed her 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.120 a gift. It was a dozen wild rose blossoms without stems. 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.640 He said, now you can kick them home and dry 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.879 them and create some so we have a memory of 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.600 our first date together. So it was just this really romantic, 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.600 over the top sort of experience that was fabulous. 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.360 And with that he kissed me on the. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:13.959 Cheek and said, you know, I hope you sleep well. 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.080 It's so nice to meet you, and then left. 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.160 They immediately started making plans for another date. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.239 He was really good at planning things. He took me 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.520 to Mall America, went through the aquarium, we did like 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.280 a little amusement park ride, and he took me to 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.800 one of his favorite restaurants. So every weekend felt planned. 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.920 Another weekend. He took me to this National park, the Waterfalls, 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.520 to show me one of his favorite places, and it 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:40.480 just was romantic. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:44.879 As the dates went on, it was clear there was 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.439 an elephant in the room, the fact that Carrie didn't work. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.200 He started to like, do you have like financial issues? 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.280 Are you in trouble? Do you need a loan? Are 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.200 you all right? I said no, no, I'm okay. Actually 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.320 the opposite is true. I don't need to work. I 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.440 came into a lot of money when Brad died. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.800 And then without thinking, she said the number. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.160 And the minute I did that, I had this deep 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.840 shame flood over me. It's like you've made a really 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:22.200 grave error here, You've divulged something super private. Now You'll 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:24.639 never know why this person's in a relationship with you. 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.200 Is it for the money or is it for you? 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.480 She watched him to see if you'd change, if you'd 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:34.000 suddenly become overly affectionate or expect her to start paying 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.400