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Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on

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Speaker 1: Love calling on the Biden administration today. Secretary Americus, do

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Speaker 1: your damn job. This is the best chance that we

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Speaker 1: have to control the borders. American border problems won't be

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Speaker 1: fixt for Congress acts. The only thing that changed was

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Speaker 1: the administration and the administration policy. Floomberg Sound on Politics,

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Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top name. It's been nearly

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Speaker 1: one year since Russia's cruel and unprovoked convasion of your Frank.

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Speaker 1: A very significant grinding battle of attrition. When there is

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Speaker 1: a hope and when there's a lost man standing, there

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Speaker 1: is a chance to win this war. Bloomberg Sound On

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Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Kevin McCarthy makes another

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Speaker 1: run for the border with the stare offf with Democrats

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Speaker 1: drags on. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, as

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Speaker 1: we grab the third rail. In a conversation with former

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Speaker 1: Texas Congressman Will heard for it in Biden is packing

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Speaker 1: for poland we'll look at what's behind the mission with

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Speaker 1: our signature panel including Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and

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Speaker 1: Jeannie Chanzano. Don't bet on crypto regulations this year in Congress.

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Speaker 1: Nathan Dean will join us from Bloomberg Intelligence that's actually

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Speaker 1: running odds on legislation. Did the US just shoot down

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Speaker 1: a thirteen dollar hobby balloon? We'll talk to the man

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Speaker 1: who builds them. Speaker Kevin McCarthy makes his first trip

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Speaker 1: as speaker to the southern border, bringing a delegation of

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Speaker 1: freshman Republican House members to Arizona. Are they toward customs

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Speaker 1: and border protection operations in Coaches County? He spoke with

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Speaker 1: reporters with the border wall as a backdrop. Listen, there

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Speaker 1: has been no legislation change, But why has the border?

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Speaker 1: Why has this region gone from sixty six thousand people

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Speaker 1: come across to fifty thousand? Why is everybody who comes

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Speaker 1: across here where camouflage outfit and rugs on their feet?

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Speaker 1: Why are we catching so much Finnel? The only thing

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Speaker 1: that changed was the administration and the administration policies. He

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Speaker 1: was ready and promised legislation here, but made clear in

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Speaker 1: conversation with reporters you listen to this, that it's not

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Speaker 1: ready yet. Here's McCarthy again. We've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: ideas inside Congress it's different than the Congress before. We're

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Speaker 1: just not going to write the bill and put it

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Speaker 1: onto the floor. We're gonna listen to the people that

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Speaker 1: are on the border. We're gonna listen to border agents.

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Speaker 1: We want the very best ideas, and we're gonna each other. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we're moving it now, just as we bring our committee

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Speaker 1: down here. Okay, So legislation forthcoming presumably, And we recall,

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Speaker 1: of course President Biden's urgings at the State of the

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Speaker 1: Union to pass his immigration plan. Here he is again. Remember,

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Speaker 1: we now have a record number of personnel working to

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Speaker 1: secure the border, resting eight thousand human smugglers season over

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Speaker 1: twenty three thousand pounds of fentin all in just the

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Speaker 1: last several months. We launched a new border plan last

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Speaker 1: month on lawful migration from Cuba. Hating Nicaragua in Venezuela

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Speaker 1: has come down as a consequence of that. Remember, Kevin

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Speaker 1: McCarthy was shaking his head when the President called on

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Speaker 1: Congress to pass his legislation. But all we have in

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Speaker 1: the meantime here is a lot of photo opportunities. McCarthy's

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Speaker 1: trip today followed by other Republican delegations the next couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks. Minority Leader Hockeyen Jeffrey showed up on the

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Speaker 1: border today with a trip to Laredo, Texas, and so

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Speaker 1: we wanted to talk with Will Herd, who of course

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Speaker 1: represented a border district in Texas. The twenty three covers

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Speaker 1: about five miles between San Antonio and El Paso, served

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Speaker 1: on the Intelligence Committee, dealt with the immigration issue a

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Speaker 1: lot after her career in the CIA, and wanted his

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Speaker 1: view on all of this. Congressman, welcome back to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have you. Is there any chance of

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Speaker 1: getting immigration reform through this Congress or is this really

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Speaker 1: all for show? I think it's going to be difficult because, unfortunately, um,

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks are more interested in using this

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Speaker 1: issue as a political legend against one another encamp pains,

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Speaker 1: rather than actually solving the issue. And this is an

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Speaker 1: issue that started becoming a crisis under the last administration

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Speaker 1: and Trump administration and has just bloged um under under

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration. And look, we know what fixes needs

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Speaker 1: to happen. It's not like there's some new thing that

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Speaker 1: needs to become that needs to come up to be done.

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Speaker 1: Got to stop treating everyone that's coming across the border

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Speaker 1: as an asylum seeker. UM, we can talk further than

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Speaker 1: that if you want. We need to stop. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know when the President's mentioned these eight thousand human smugglers,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where those eight thousand human smugglers were dismantled.

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Speaker 1: Because we should be dismantling networks throughout Central in South America. UM.

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Speaker 1: We should be working on streamlining legal immigration as well. UM,

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Speaker 1: and we should be still working on some of the

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Speaker 1: root causes that is causing people to leave their homecome

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Speaker 1: Historically speaking, you know, a lot of illegal immigration was

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Speaker 1: coming from Hundre or so I'll sal what a Guatemala

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Speaker 1: over the last year and a half or so, basically

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Speaker 1: almost every country um, that that has been coming here

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Speaker 1: but historically asked diploma. We can be addressed in those

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Speaker 1: root causes there. So, so those are those are some

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Speaker 1: of the buckets that we need to be addressing. Well.

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Speaker 1: Speaker McCarthy says, he's on a listening tour though, kind

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Speaker 1: of like they're starting from scratch here. If you think

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Speaker 1: that we already know the solutions, why can't we start

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Speaker 1: writing a bill? Look so, so part of this also

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Speaker 1: is is implementation of existing laws Um, there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of discussion about Title forty two. This is using

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Speaker 1: health reasons to prevent somebody from coming in the country.

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Speaker 1: But there's already legislation, is already a role called Title eight.

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Speaker 1: A Title eight basically says that if somebody is coming

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Speaker 1: into the country illegally UM oftentimes defined by coming in

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Speaker 1: between our points and intrigue, that doesn't have proper identification,

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Speaker 1: that they're they're they're illegally in the country and can

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Speaker 1: be deported. That doesn't have to go through an immigration court.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's expedited removal that can be happening immediately.

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Speaker 1: Why um, that's using that Title eight was something that

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Speaker 1: stopped under the Trump administration and President Biden's administration has

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Speaker 1: has continued this notion of asylum. Asylum is very clear

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Speaker 1: what asylum is. You have to be part of a

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Speaker 1: protected class, meaning, um, you know, based on your your gender,

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Speaker 1: your ethnicity, your sexual orientation, and that you're being persecuted

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Speaker 1: by your government because you're a member of that protected class,

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Speaker 1: or you're being persecuted by a group because you're part

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Speaker 1: of that protected class, and your government won't defend you

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Speaker 1: right that those are the reason doesn't cover pretty much

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Speaker 1: all of Central America though, No, and it doesn't, it

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Speaker 1: actually doesn't. Right, What if you're coming from an oppressive,

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Speaker 1: an oppressive regime and you're knocking on the door at

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Speaker 1: the United States, how do you make that judgment? Well,

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Speaker 1: so it's so it's it's it's clear in legal terms, right.

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Speaker 1: So so Honduras, Guatemala, you know, Costa Rica, it's not

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Speaker 1: happening now, Venezuela, Cuba, even Russia. Now that is something

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Speaker 1: that is is it's it's a little bit, it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit. You know, there's more likelihood that those grounds

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Speaker 1: are met. If you look over the last thirty years,

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Speaker 1: I'm a people that have asked that have sought asylum

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Speaker 1: in the United States, the numbers similar between like thirty

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Speaker 1: five actually get asylum. Um so that means, you know,

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Speaker 1: seventy are actually not. So so trying to come to

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Speaker 1: the US to get a better paying job is not

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Speaker 1: a reason to to to seek asylum. So oh and

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Speaker 1: by the way, because this system is being abused, the

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Speaker 1: people that really need asylum are getting impacted by this.

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Speaker 1: And so so that's a big reason why you're seeing this,

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Speaker 1: this this influx um let me ask you we can

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Speaker 1: just flip the coin here for a second. And something

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Speaker 1: that Speaker McCarthy talked about today and I thought it

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Speaker 1: was interesting because you know, there are different ways of

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Speaker 1: looking at this, you know, do you go on the

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Speaker 1: supply side or the demand side, and do you go

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Speaker 1: outside of the country as he's suggesting in this case,

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Speaker 1: to stop things before they ever get to the border.

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Speaker 1: Here's McCarthy again. So if you want to stop fitting

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Speaker 1: on the first call you should make as the president.

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Speaker 1: She's exactly what I told President Biden inside the Oval

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Speaker 1: office the other week. Called President she and tell him

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Speaker 1: to stop the chemicals coming down. If you want to

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Speaker 1: stop the cartels, you've got to be serious about it.

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Speaker 1: These are terrorist organizations. Calm as such and take the

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Speaker 1: action to stop them. They are making billions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: They are human trafficking. So we'll heard how much of

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Speaker 1: this is a diplomatic failure as opposed to a security

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Speaker 1: failure at the border, and I think a lot of it.

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Speaker 1: And I would even broaden that into saying a diplomatic

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Speaker 1: failure of all when intelligence failure, um, you know, we

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Speaker 1: it is hard to get from Guatemala City to del

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Speaker 1: Rio Texas and people, you know, when when people are

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Speaker 1: coming across the border and what people have to remember.

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Speaker 1: The two point five million people that came in the

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Speaker 1: country legally last year, a lot of them in essence surrendered,

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Speaker 1: you know, they came across the word legally trying to

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Speaker 1: find someone from border patrol and surrendered themselves. Oftentimes they

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Speaker 1: had a phone number of of someone who smuggled them.

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Speaker 1: They had a license plate of a bus they were

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Speaker 1: supposed to get on to transit through Central American in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: they had a meeting location and where to go. A

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Speaker 1: lot of that information is being collected by border patrol.

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Speaker 1: Our intelligence services need to be using that to work

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Speaker 1: with partner countries in order to dismantle those those networks.

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Speaker 1: See that sounds like a much more realistic or mightly

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Speaker 1: more effective approach here. And I know that you were

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Speaker 1: always known for having kind of a high tech view

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Speaker 1: on this when it comes to border sex already. How

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Speaker 1: do you layer that on on top of what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about here. I know that you were not a

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Speaker 1: fan of the Wall, for instance, which is something that

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Speaker 1: Speaker McCarthy was talking about. Your quote back then the

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Speaker 1: wall was a third century solution to a twenty one

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Speaker 1: century problem. So how do we employ better technology here? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and it looks so we should be able to

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Speaker 1: have what the official tip term is operational control of

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Speaker 1: our border. We should know everything that's coming back and

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Speaker 1: forth across our border and guess what. Several mile by

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Speaker 1: mile assessments of what kind of tool needs to go

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Speaker 1: along that border has already been done. We know whether

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Speaker 1: a physical barrier like like, a physical barrier makes sense

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Speaker 1: when there is urban to urban contact, but in far

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Speaker 1: West Texas, where it takes border patrol hours or days

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Speaker 1: to respond to something at the border, a physical barrier

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Speaker 1: is not going to stop anything. So you need technology

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Speaker 1: that can detect the threat and monitor that threat until

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Speaker 1: someone is able to deploy. You need additional manpower for sure.

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Speaker 1: So we know all of the different tools, and multiple

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Speaker 1: administrations have done these mile by model assessments. Those mile

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Speaker 1: by modele assessments have found out the same thing. So

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Speaker 1: so this is an addition that we need, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone is to be a less expensive than building a

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Speaker 1: wall the length of the border. Correct, Yeah, it look

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Speaker 1: it is, and and it's a fraction of the cost,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, we're talking about all these balloons,

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Speaker 1: right that the Chinese surveillance balloon and potentially balloons plural.

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Speaker 1: There's a number of drones that are coming across our

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Speaker 1: border in the southern border, and that's bringing in drugs

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Speaker 1: and monitoring whether there's there's border patrol agents. We're also

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Speaker 1: seeing um uh unmanned vehicles in the in the in

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Speaker 1: the oceans um as well, and so so so we

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Speaker 1: have to have an all of the above approach. And

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Speaker 1: there's not one thing that's going to fix this problem.

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Speaker 1: It's multiple things, and it starts at the source. It starts,

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Speaker 1: you know, here in our country. Oh and by the way,

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Speaker 1: it's a fraction on the cost to deal with these

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Speaker 1: problems um you know, overseas and the arm before they

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Speaker 1: get through our border. And so so we need people,

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Speaker 1: we need leaders and understand all these things that are

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Speaker 1: more interested in solving the problem, that are going to

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Speaker 1: work with people that to be honest, that don't like

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Speaker 1: one another in order to have some common sense problems

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Speaker 1: to what's really a crisis. The former Republican of Texas

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Speaker 1: congressman will hurt to really appreciate the time. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: being with us as we assemble our panel here and

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Speaker 1: their take on this whole matter and our conversation Rick

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Speaker 1: Davis and Jeannie Chanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors Jenie are are

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Speaker 1: we at the point here as Will hurt Is suggesting

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Speaker 1: of needing to redefine asylum? You know, we very well

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Speaker 1: may need to be at that point. But the reality is,

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Speaker 1: and I think he's absolutely right that the solutions are there,

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Speaker 1: and the problem is, what we're getting is a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, politicking, certainly a lot of show voting.

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Speaker 1: You know, you see, uh the Congress in the Republican

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Speaker 1: side basically moving down to the southern border. They're planning

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Speaker 1: to hold hearings for the next several months. But the

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Speaker 1: reality is there are solutions in front of us that

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Speaker 1: take congressional implementation. And what we haven't heard from Kevin

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Speaker 1: McCarthy is what the legislative agenda is going to be.

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Speaker 1: He says he wants to hear from security people on

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Speaker 1: the border. Yet, what about your legislative agenda? What do

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Speaker 1: you want to do policy? What wise? Is the real question?

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Speaker 1: And that's something we haven't heard from the GOP. We

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Speaker 1: heard from a local rancher by the name of John

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Speaker 1: Ladd who showed up at the border with Speaker McCarthy.

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Speaker 1: He was part of the group. They're talking to reporters.

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Speaker 1: Interesting to get the I mean this, this is the

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Speaker 1: real local view. Listen to what he said. I'm a

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Speaker 1: fourth generation rancher down here. I haven't given up, but

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Speaker 1: this is the best chance that we have to control

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Speaker 1: the border. Uh. We talked about the Fenton all, we

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Speaker 1: talked about the number of people that are coming to

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Speaker 1: this country. But it's a national security threat and I

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Speaker 1: think America understands it. But they better wake up and

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Speaker 1: get behind this group of congressmen coming from Washington. Rick

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Speaker 1: Davis obviously he was brought there because he was agreeing

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Speaker 1: with them and would say that in part. But tell

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Speaker 1: our audience what us coastal elites don't get about that

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Speaker 1: local view. You spent a lot of time in Arizona

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Speaker 1: politics not far from where they were today. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, with all due respect to John Light, I

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Speaker 1: assume he was not talking about Hockeyen Jefferies as these

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Speaker 1: congress he agreed with so much. Look, I mean, these

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Speaker 1: are these are real problems for local people. Right. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of ranches, a lot of farms. Um

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Speaker 1: enormous amount of dairy is produced, you know, on the

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Speaker 1: border between Mexico and Arizona, for instance, And and and

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Speaker 1: you've got a lot of people just walking through these facilities.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's a porest border. And that

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Speaker 1: actually means that people just move right in and they

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Speaker 1: move into these border towns, and they want to have

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Speaker 1: their kids go to school in those border towns. They

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Speaker 1: want to get jobs in those border towns, and and

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Speaker 1: it puts enormous pressure on him. But but with all

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Speaker 1: due respect, I mean, it's it's it's that's not the problem, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that you know, what's what's really great

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Speaker 1: about having someone like um uh, you know a conversation

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Speaker 1: like this today is there are already solutions to these problems. Right,

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Speaker 1: this has been picked apart a hundred times and it's

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Speaker 1: a combination of existing law and policies. We know, we

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Speaker 1: we know we have to fix the dreamer's problem. The

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Speaker 1: dreamers are now adults. I mean, like that should be

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Speaker 1: the easiest thing in the world to do. Uh. We

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Speaker 1: know we need workers. Uh. John ladd on his farm

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Speaker 1: needs workers for that farm. And where do you think

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Speaker 1: he gets them? You know, and uh so these are

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Speaker 1: these are all solutions, with all due respect to the

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Speaker 1: Republicans and the Democrats going down the border. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is not the first generation to look at this crisis,

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Speaker 1: and they ought to just get together and they can

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Speaker 1: do it together at the border and come up with

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Speaker 1: a plan and bring it back to Washington. But uh,

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Speaker 1: it really is one of those issues that is not

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Speaker 1: that hard to solve, vexing political problems. And and yet

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Speaker 1: I think the politics is is so good for both

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Speaker 1: parties that they don't want to actually take the time

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Speaker 1: and effort to fix it. Are these trips anything more

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Speaker 1: than photo ops? Jennie Speaker McCarthy says, he's you know,

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Speaker 1: he's on a listening tour essentially, what's Hockeen Jeffreys doing there?

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Speaker 1: The Democrats were accusing Republicans of photo ops. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: accusing of Republicans of photo ops. They themselves are down

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Speaker 1: there to show they are not seating the border to

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Speaker 1: the Republicans and of course down there to make the

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Speaker 1: case that they too want to own this issue. To

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Speaker 1: Rick's point, it's a political win for both sides and

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Speaker 1: until they get beyond that, they're not going to come

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Speaker 1: to the solution. But we know what the solution is.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at five pm Easter on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 1: the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa

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Speaker 1: from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven. The President Biden's about to head overseas. It's Monday.

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Speaker 1: He makes the trip to Poland. He'll be there Monday

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Speaker 1: for two days. We'll meet with the Polish president there,

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Speaker 1: and we heard a bit about it, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of insight from Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre on the

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Speaker 1: purpose of the trip, remembering we're just a week out

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Speaker 1: here now from the anniversary the first anniversary of the

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Speaker 1: war in Ukraine. Here she is, look, this is going

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Speaker 1: to be the one year. He's going there ahead of

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Speaker 1: the one year anniversary and sending a strong message of

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Speaker 1: solidarity and UH and the President understanding to reaffirm right

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Speaker 1: our support for the Ukrainian people as they're fighting back

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Speaker 1: against the brutal war that Russia started almost a year ago.

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Speaker 1: Also plans to meet with leaders of the so called

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Speaker 1: Bucharest Nine group of Eastern Flank NATO allies that have

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Speaker 1: a lot of skin in the game. Right now is

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Speaker 1: we reassemble our panel with some thoughts on this, Rick

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Speaker 1: Davis and Jeannie Chanzino. It's an important trip, Rick, Uh.

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Speaker 1: The President will be in Poland. There's been some talk

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Speaker 1: of him maybe even creeping over the border, but certainly

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Speaker 1: the White Houses has no plans to announce anything like that. Now,

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Speaker 1: how important is the journey. He's the only Western leader

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Speaker 1: that has not actually been to Ukraine since this war started. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and obviously security matters are the deepest requirement in that construct.

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Speaker 1: So they're going to be careful as to what they

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Speaker 1: do with the president. And and I don't think anyway

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Speaker 1: doubts his his resolve on this issue. UH. It's a

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Speaker 1: great lead up this week with the Munich Security Conference

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Speaker 1: happening in Germany where leaders from all around the world

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Speaker 1: were there to discuss primarily Ukraine UH and sixties senators

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Speaker 1: from the United States went. There's no lack of UH

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Speaker 1: support and commitment UH in the U s Government to

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Speaker 1: UH to Ukraine. UH. And what is really interesting is

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin who has attended this event in the past,

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Speaker 1: actually was disinvited. UH. So this is a great lead

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Speaker 1: up to the anniversary of the invasion UH and I

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Speaker 1: suspect that the President and his team will use it

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Speaker 1: to leverage continuing UH commitments from Europe and other allies

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Speaker 1: around the world UH and put increasing pressure on on

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Speaker 1: on Vladimir Putin. He's got a few audiences on this trip, Genie,

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Speaker 1: what is the most important one in Europe? Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think it is, But I also think the American

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Speaker 1: public is equally important. You look at the latest AP

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Speaker 1: and r C poll on this. Americans still support Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: but there is signs of waning there. It's not as

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Speaker 1: strong as it was a year ago. And so he

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Speaker 1: needs to continually make the case that he has been making.

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Speaker 1: And we'll hear Kamala Harris make it in Munich that

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Speaker 1: we stand with Ukraine and this is a moral and

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Speaker 1: just war and that there is no question about what

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Speaker 1: we should be doing. And of course Zelenski is going

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Speaker 1: to keep asking for more money and more support, as

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Speaker 1: he should, and the question is going to be how

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Speaker 1: much can we how much can we support and for

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Speaker 1: how long? Because you are hearing drop off on both

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Speaker 1: the right and the far left. You know, questions about budget,

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Speaker 1: questions about balancing budget debt, all of those things come

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Speaker 1: into play here. So while I think Europe is critically important,

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Speaker 1: of course, there is also the public both in the

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Speaker 1: United States States and in Europe who we need to

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Speaker 1: appeal to. And let's not forget look over in Africa.

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Speaker 1: Look at what Russia and China South Africa are doing

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Speaker 1: just this week in terms of the these you know

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Speaker 1: tests that they're running. You know, there is a worldwide

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Speaker 1: audience here that has to get behind Ukraine to make

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Speaker 1: it through this next really important spring. What are the

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Speaker 1: optics uh for this trip? Rick, It's it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a more casual Uh. Look, you have him go to

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Speaker 1: a refugee camp at the border if if those are

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Speaker 1: even still there. You have him mingling with locals. What's

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Speaker 1: the what's the White House Communications Office cooking up for this? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I I get the impression, and it's going to be

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Speaker 1: more like a working visit. Uh and uh And yet

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Speaker 1: I would expect some kind of a central uh speech

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Speaker 1: U themed around the anniversary and in the global resolve.

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Speaker 1: Uh and and I think it will be broadcast through

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Speaker 1: the world. Right, this is an important moment, uh, both

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Speaker 1: because of the anniversary, but also it just happens to

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Speaker 1: be an important moment on the ground in Ukraine, UH,

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Speaker 1: in the fighting, and so I think that he'll get

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Speaker 1: a lot of attention. But I agree with Jennie. I

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Speaker 1: think he needs to come back from that trip and

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Speaker 1: address the country because there is slippage in the polling

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Speaker 1: around support for the Ukraine and in the Ukrainians in

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Speaker 1: Munich right now are saying, hey, guys, shore up your base,

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Speaker 1: make sure that the American public are behind you, because

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Speaker 1: we need this to go the long haul. Uh. We

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Speaker 1: got plenty of resources. They've only spent a fraction of

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Speaker 1: the forty billion that have been allocated for the Ukrainians.

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Speaker 1: So it's not so much an economic issue. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be an issue around can we can we stay

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Speaker 1: in the fight as long as Vladimir Putin and and

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Speaker 1: further than Vladimir Putin thinks will stay in the fight.

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Speaker 1: Hearing General Mark Milley describe it, and he held a

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Speaker 1: news conference earlier in the week ahead of the Munich

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Speaker 1: conference with press with the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. I

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Speaker 1: should say and he talked about the fight in the

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Speaker 1: dun Boss specifically and what he was seeing on the battlefield.

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Speaker 1: Listen to General Mark Millie. Most of the uh dynamic

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Speaker 1: movement back and forth is in generally in the vicinity

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Speaker 1: of back moot. Uh. The Ukrainians are holding, uh, they're

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Speaker 1: fighting the defense. The Russians, primarily the Wagner group, are attacking.

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Speaker 1: But there's a what what I would describe it as

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Speaker 1: as a really a very significant grinding battle of attrition

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Speaker 1: with very high casualties, especially on the Russian side. Um.

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Speaker 1: There there's no fancy arts of maneuver going on here.

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Speaker 1: This is frontal attacks, wave attacks, lots of artillery with

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Speaker 1: extremely high levels of casualties in that particular area. It

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Speaker 1: sounds brutal rick and and no end in sight. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about shoring up support now. General Millie is

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Speaker 1: making it sound like we're gonna be talking about this

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Speaker 1: year from now. Well very well could Uh. That's certainly uh.

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Speaker 1: The situation on the ground right now, there's no there's

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Speaker 1: no real movement um uh. And I think the point

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Speaker 1: he's making about the fact that, you know, bach Mood

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Speaker 1: has become such a meat grinder. Um. I heard reporting

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Speaker 1: today that eight hundred to a thousand Russian troops are

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Speaker 1: dying every day in that battle. Uh. It's just beyond

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Speaker 1: my comprehension as to how long that is sustainable on

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Speaker 1: a frontal assault, day after day. Um. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, UM, I think everyone has to

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Speaker 1: be committed to a long haul. UH. If that then

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Speaker 1: means that that could generate a discussion around a a

430
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: withdrawal troops in a in a peace agreement with Russia, great,

431
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: But they're not gonna withdraw if they think we're in

432
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: the process of of of minimizing our commitment. So Jeannie,

433
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: zoom out the lens here and and look at this

434
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: politically in a presidential campaign cycle, the war in Ukraine,

435
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: funding for the war in Ukraine, or how you stand

436
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: on this could really be one of the biggest issues

437
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: in the presidential debate. It certainly can. But I think

438
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: the reality is that if you know, when we go

439
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: you know, forty years from now and we look back,

440
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: this will be the most important, if not one of

441
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: the most important moments of Joe Biden's UH presidency is

442
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: what he has done to shore up support for Ukraine.

443
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: We go back a year how many people would have

444
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: believed that Ukraine would be standing as strong as it is.

445
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: That has a lot to do with the United States

446
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's leadership on this. Even people like Lindsay Graham

447
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: have given him props for that, So I think that

448
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: that is really important. The reality is this is a

449
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: fight between rules based international order and autocracy, and he's

450
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: got to keep making making this case. This is not

451
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: just about someplace far away that we haven't been, but

452
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: it is about who we are and we need to

453
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: keep fighting for them. And for that reason, it's gonna

454
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: play in four But he had he's on the right

455
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: side of history here, but he's got to keep making

456
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: the case. Donald Trump is gonna be on the other

457
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: side of this issue right. Right by the time there's

458
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: any kind of a real back and forth, Trump's gonna

459
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: be saying, bring the money back home. Right, let's stop

460
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: this war with Russia. I could, I could have ended this.

461
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: It would never have happened if I was president. We're

462
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: wasting our money. Yeah. As we get into the presidential cycle,

463
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: it will be interesting to see what kind of backbone

464
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: these Republicans and Democrat candidates who are running have. Uh,

465
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: you know when our campaign in two thousand eight was

466
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: in the duldrums, uh last place, John McCain came up

467
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: with a brilliant idea of sort of campaigning on pushing

468
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: the surge and I rack very unpopular thing, but it

469
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: won't even the nomination. So are there are They're brave

470
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: people running for president who are willing, especially when it

471
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: looks bad, to stick their neck out and say no,

472
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: we're staying at distance. We're gonna double down on this commitment.

473
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: We're going to back them up for all the reasons

474
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: that Jennie just said, Because this is a real, you know,

475
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: epic battle of good versus evil. You know, from what

476
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: we understand Jennie, that Ukraine money has Rick pointed out, Uh,

477
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: not a lot of it is and spent but won't

478
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: likely last the year. Is that going to collide with

479
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: the budget debate that surrounds the debt ceiling as well?

480
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: It's certainly going to come up. And I think the

481
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: case that the President has to make, and he has

482
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: to use his supporters from Mitch McConnell to Lindsay Graham

483
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: and other Republicans to make the case it all hasn't

484
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: been spent. We can do this. This is not an

485
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: issue of money for us. And in terms of the campaign,

486
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: this is why I'm going to be watching Monday, as

487
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: I know everybody else will be. Does he go over there?

488
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: Because that would be great video for the campaign. It

489
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: would also help shore up public support. Otherwise we may

490
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: see Zelensky, may see Zelynsky go to Poland, because you know,

491
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: all the cool kids have gone over and so Biden

492
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: is the last, including our first lady. So Biden is

493
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: the last, and I think we may see him go

494
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: for that reason. If it's safe. You wonder, maybe not Keith,

495
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: but maybe it is give into the GIV or somewhere

496
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: kind of nearby. We'll see how that goes. You're listening

497
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio.

498
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: We've had a running conversation here in Washington about regulating

499
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: crypto for months, what years now, and nothing has really,

500
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: of course come to fruition, even doubts about whether lawmakers

501
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about. All the while the chair

502
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: of the SEC has been cracking down on his own

503
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: and creating some controversy along the way. Nathan Dean at

504
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence dares to use two words in his crypto

505
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: policy watch out today, regulatory clarity, and he's with us

506
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: now to talk about it. The senior government analyst at

507
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence, Nathan Dean, welcome back, Thanks for having me.

508
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here. So you're actually putting

509
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: odds on crypto regulations happening this year in Congress, and

510
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: they're actually not great, are they now? I mean, if

511
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: you think about what the industry wants, and it's really

512
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: like you, like I said before, regulatory clarity. You know,

513
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of proposals that came out of

514
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: the tail in two. There's going to be more proposals

515
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: that are coming out this year. But even in the

516
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: light of f t X and this current SEC crackdown,

517
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: I mean even uh, just recently, the SEC came out

518
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: and said that they've come to an agreement with former

519
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: NBA player Paul Purse over his his crypto uh disclosures

520
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: and so forth. Like I think he's gonna pay some

521
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: like just north of a million dollars and penalties for

522
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: that um. But even with all that happening going on,

523
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: and everybody's agreeing that we should do something or at

524
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: least most people agreeing we should do something. There's just

525
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: not general consensus on what that is. And so our

526
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: take is is that you're gonna see a lot of

527
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: proposals come up from the beginning of this year, a

528
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: lot of debate. Key proposals to watch will probably come

529
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: from the Senate Banking Committee, the Senate ad Committee. How

530
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: friendly they are to crypto still to be determined. But

531
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: we're we're putting in about chance of passage this year

532
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: because we're just not, uh, we're not feeling that Congress

533
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: actually knows exactly what they want to do. Forty percent chance.

534
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: This is why I love the analysis that comes out

535
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: of b I Bloomberg Intelligence. Uh, the SEC important that

536
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned this, And by the way, I'm looking at

537
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: their announcement here charging NBA Hall of Famer Paul Pierce

538
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: for unlawfully touting and making misleading statements about crypto security.

539
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: My god, there's gonna be a lot of celebrities and

540
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: athletes here looking their wounds, uh, for for what they

541
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: got into in crypto. Just ask Tom Brady, right, yeah, exactly.

542
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw Kim Kardashian, We've seen a couple

543
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: of other celebrities over the years, and this is just

544
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: all as part of one strategy that's going on over

545
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: at the SEC. And my colleague Elliott Stein put out

546
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: a note this morning highlighting all the actions that the

547
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: SEC has done. I mean, if you think about the

548
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: SEC has going after Ripple, the SEC is currently just

549
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: this week, is going after Terraform the uh. You know,

550
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: there was a settlement with Kracking for thirty million dollars.

551
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: And really this goes back to what Sherman Ginsler has

552
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: been saying for the last year and a half. And

553
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: he's what he's been saying is coming and register and

554
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: coming and talk to us, because if on in in

555
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: the SEC's mind, crypto tokens outside of bitcoin, Bitcoin is

556
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: a commodity, it's deemed by the courts as a commodity,

557
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: but pretty much everything else is a security. And therefore

558
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: nineties era securities law still applies. If you talk to

559
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: the industry, they'll say, we have a new digital asset class.

560
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: This is brand new regulations from you know, ninety years ago,

561
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: just don't apply to us. And because neither side is

562
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: actual acquiesced to the other, the SEC is bringing forth

563
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: these cases and ultimately for the industry. They're gonna get

564
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: clarity one of two ways. It's either going to come

565
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: from Congress and we just said chance there, or it's

566
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: gonna come from the courts. And our take is is

567
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: that the courts actually may be looking favorably at the

568
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: SEC and a lot of this. How about that? Okay,

569
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: Well you mentioned the crack and settlement. Every time Gary

570
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: Gensler announces something like this, Nathan, the crypto community cries

571
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: for that again, regulatory clarity. How how could legislation change that?

572
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: If it's not this year, it's going to be eventually. Yeah.

573
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: So there's really two mean pieces here, and you have

574
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: the stable coin piece and then you have everything else.

575
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: And I'll start with stable coin here because even though

576
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: we think that there's a chance of passage this year,

577
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: we are more favorable on a stable coin specific piece

578
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: of legislation. We're putting around a chance on that. And

579
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: what this would probably entail, uh, this is actually probably

580
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: coming from the House Financial Services Committee, is you're going

581
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: to have a bill that would require stable coins to

582
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: be backed by a percent and high quality liquid assets. Uh.

583
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: It would give bank issuers the ability to register with

584
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve and go under Federal Reserve oversight. The

585
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: hold up is on non bank issuers, so like paxos

586
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: and so forth like that. Uh, you know, the current

587
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: thinking is is that non bank issuers could potentially eventually

588
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: regular or register with state regulators. But even just recently

589
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: the SEC has put out statements sort of questioning whether

590
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: state regulators are there. So the stable thing stable coin piece,

591
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: we think it happened this year for everything else. You know,

592
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: some of the provisions you're looking for is what is

593
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: a commodity versus a security. If you get a commodity

594
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: status like bitcoin and the CFTC ultimately gets authority over

595
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: spot markets, that's a lot less regulation in my view

596
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: than if you're dealing with the SEC. But anything that's

597
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: gonna pass the crypto industry is going to remain under

598
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: the jurisdiction of the SEC, and more likely than not,

599
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: it's going to be very stringent on regulatory requirements in

600
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: terms of customer protections, custodial governance, anti money laundering. Know

601
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: your customer disclosures, which cost money. It's the cost of

602
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: the industry may want to you know, some of the

603
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: industry will absolutely want this, but for those that are

604
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: favoring a decentralized market. That's not exactly what they want.

605
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: It's not at all. And it costs a lot of

606
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: money to talk to the SEC, doesn't it, Nathan, Yeah, exactly.

607
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: I mean it just in this is just ballpark figures.

608
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: But you know when Chairman Gendler says, come in and

609
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: talk to us, Well, if you're going to approach the SEC,

610
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: you need external legal counsel, and that costs money. I mean,

611
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: we've heard we've heard folks say that they've spent somewhere

612
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars to two fifty dollars just for

613
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: one meeting. And if you and I decide to go

614
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: to our garage and create a new crypto platform, they

615
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: that's not money that we really want to spend at

616
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: the moment. So it's not as easy as it sounds.

617
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: And you know what we see a lot of times

618
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: in regulations is that when you have this type of

619
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: industry altering regulation come out, it's usually the folks that

620
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: are either have the cryptos, the technology, spend, the legal spend,

621
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: the risk spend high backers. They usually gain market share

622
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: as the mom and pop suffer. This is incredible insight

623
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: you're suggesting that if I'm if I'm reading you right,

624
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: or maybe we can advance this a little bit. If

625
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: you're a start up crypto firm, it's probably it's cheaper

626
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: for you to run the risk of being fine than

627
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: to actually interface with the SEC. Well, you know, a

628
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: lot of the bloom In fact, Bloomberg News just reported

629
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: today that you know, Bonance is thinking about just you know,

630
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: essentially segregating itself from the United States. We've heard a

631
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: lot of this from the crypt the community of why

632
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: should he even play in the United States. You know,

633
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: there's this idea here is that the U S regulation

634
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: is not going to change at least until let's say

635
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: that the presidential election. If you get a Republican president,

636
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: then maybe it would, but that's two years and for

637
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: a lot of these firms, that's not that's two years

638
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: day I want don't want to spend. So there's more

639
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: of a momentum I think for crypto firms to move

640
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: outside in the United States. The European Union has a

641
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: more favorable regulatory framework. The United Kingdom just put out

642
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: a Treasury in the United Kingdom just put out a

643
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: consultation that's more favorable du Bui, Hong Kong. So there's

644
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: this idea out here is just, you know what, we're

645
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: gonna take our toys and go play somewhere else that's

646
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: set back to the US. And that's the great concern

647
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: that pro crypto lawmakers have here, right, is that we

648
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: blow our chance to regulate a nascent industry here or

649
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: currency or whatever you want to call it, and you

650
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: just let the whole thing go off shore. Yeah, exactly.

651
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of there's a lot of policymakers

652
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: that would just say, you know what, it's better to

653
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: just let it go. You know, this is something that

654
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: the crypto industry struggles with because you know, for those

655
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: of us who work in crypto, we think it's a

656
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: very big deal. But when you took it, when you

657
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: look at the total market cap for crypto, you're just

658
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: south of a billion or sorry, a trillion dollars. You know,

659
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: the New York Stock Exchange. The last time I saw

660
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: it was like twenty nine trillion dollars. And so for

661
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: all the attention it gets, it's scrypto is also just

662
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: a second tier issue when you talk about things like

663
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: inflation and China and stimulus and economics and so forth

664
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: like that. And this is where I think the absence

665
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: of you know, Sam Bank ben Free is going to

666
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: be felt, is uh. You know, he was very much

667
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: a proponent of trying to get this regulation in front

668
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: of policymakers and keep it at the high part of

669
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: their priority lists. Certainly, we've seen coin based try this,

670
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: We've seen the Trade Association to continue to try this.

671
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: But somebody's gonna have to keep that issue at the

672
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: forefront of this year or else it's just going to

673
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: get lost amongst a lot of other priorities. He's the

674
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: senior government analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence with us here in

675
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: our washing In Studios Nathan Dean find his column on

676
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: the Terminal the b I Policy Watch us Crypto Framework Outlook. Nathan,

677
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: thanks so much as ever for the insights today. Thanks

678
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: for having me with the real player. Let's reassemble the

679
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: panel for their take on at Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie

680
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: Schanzano and Rick Davis, Genie Odds Bloomberg Intelligence cuts through

681
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: the muck here. Forget all the talk. They don't see

682
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: it happening. I suspect you agree. I do. I love

683
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: the percentage. Thank you Bloomberg Intelligence. I that that's the

684
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: best And you know what you said towards the end

685
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: is absolutely right. I mean, we heard the same thing

686
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: from Tim Scott, who's the ranking member on the committee.

687
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: He said, part of the problem is not just that

688
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: the guidance has been unclear, but the lack of clarity

689
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: is driving them out of the outside of the United States.

690
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 1: And so this is certainly a concern. And there are

691
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: so many competing proposals and ideas out there, and quite frankly,

692
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: the one that had the bipartisan support, that had some

693
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: momentum last year was written by Bankman Freed, and of

694
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: course that now has gone by the wayside, and so

695
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: you know, we are left in this sort of no

696
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: man's land. And I think that they are absolutely right

697
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: when they say the chances right now look really dim.

698
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: It's a recurring message from the industry though, when we've

699
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: had this talk and just the last week here with

700
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: Harvey Pitt on this program, Rick Davis, the the industry

701
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: is crying out for some rules of the road. Here

702
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: all the while, uh, the SEC is kind of picking

703
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: its battles and creating a lot of confusion. But it

704
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: looks like that doesn't end anytime soon. Yeah. I was

705
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: really surprised when Gary Gensler was picked to run the SEC.

706
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,479
Speaker 1: I thought he'd be the leader of this right and

707
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: and his Genny pointed out Tim Scott's been looking for

708
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: guidance from Kinsler, shared Brown, the chairman of committee has

709
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: been looking for guys from Gensler. And you know, pakasta,

710
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: a hundred fifty thars have a meeting with you. That's

711
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: a racket. How do I get into that? Um? But um,

712
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I do think.

713
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean, like the only thing I would I would say,

714
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: might sir vibe And it's not really regulatory, but uh,

715
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: there is a lot of impetus for consumer protection around

716
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: uh crypto in Washington, D C. And And so I

717
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: I could see a consumer protection bill where members could

718
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: go out and say, Okay, you know we've we've put

719
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: up disclosure regulations, we put up you know, UH save

720
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: harbors for for consumers to be able to play in

721
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: this uh and and and yet not actually address the

722
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: big big issues of you know, whether or not these

723
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: tokens are security or commodity, or whether or not they

724
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: ought to be regulated as Nathan Dean has discussed, so

725
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: so there may be some action. They're enormous pressure on

726
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: this um and I would say to one thing that

727
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: is a problem for Congress is this is a new industry. Uh.

728
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: Wall Street's done a better job of sort of getting

729
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: ahead of it and understanding it, uh than government hallways

730
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: in Capitol Hill or in the Treasury Department. Uh. It's

731
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: hard to find experts on the Hill who can talk

732
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: to members intelligently about, you know, what the impact of

733
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: these various crypto opportunities are. And so that's one of

734
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: the reason why you don't have a lot of action

735
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: right now is because there's just no not the infrastructure

736
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: that you would normally have. It's fascinating. Rick just outlined

737
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: two great job opportunities for your up and coming students. Genie,

738
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: I hope that you're listening and taking notes here. The

739
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is a lot of the students

740
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: in your class probably no more than we do about this,

741
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: But if this does go off shore, they'll be on

742
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 1: their VPNs buying uh, you know, coins or that we've

743
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: never heard of through exchanges based in other countries. If

744
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: they want to. It's it's it's a much different game

745
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: than than traditional banking regulation. It is. I was taking

746
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: notes on what Rick said. Forget the students, I'll get

747
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: that job that Rick's talking about. And you know VP

748
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: what Joe mad No, I know what then is. But

749
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, listen, you know cryptocurrency. It was a libertarian

750
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: revolution against government control of money. So in some ways

751
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 1: it's not surprising where we are, and in other ways

752
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: it's maddening, especially considering considering what work was just talking

753
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: about the consumer issues at asked, which we all just

754
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: lived through with FTX, And absolutely students understand this well.

755
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: I asked my sons to explain it to me constantly. Um,

756
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, they try and I shake my head, but

757
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: you know, it is something that Congress, to Rick's point,

758
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,959
Speaker 1: has simply not been adept at regulating and talking about

759
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: an understanding, you know. And of course that means they

760
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: rely on insiders like Sam Bankman freedom. To me, that

761
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: is always a concern. Yeah again, you saw how well

762
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: that worked out. Rick Davis and Jennie Chanzano our signature

763
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: panel for the rest of the hour. Here is it

764
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: possible the US just shot down a hobby balloon? Recall

765
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: President Biden's remarks from yesterday. As we discussed, we still

766
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: do not know exactly what the second, third, or fourth

767
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: objects were that the US shot down. Listen, we don't

768
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: yet know exactly what these three objects were, but nothing,

769
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: nothing right now suggests they were related to Chinese spy

770
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: balloon program or that there were surveillance vehicles from other

771
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: any other country. Intelligence community's current assessment is that these

772
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: three objects were most likely balloons tied to private companies,

773
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 1: recreation or research institutions studying weather or conducting other scientific research.

774
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: Enter the Northern Illinois Bottle Cap Balloon Brigade, known as

775
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: the n I b b B, which declared one of

776
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: its balloons missing in action on February fift Aviation Week

777
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: got the story rolling on this has been picked up everywhere.

778
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: The club's silver coated party style Pico balloon reported its

779
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: last position on February at thirty eight thousand, nine ten

780
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: feet off the west coast of Alaska, and a popular

781
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: forecasting tool projected that the cylindricy shaped objects, of course

782
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,439
Speaker 1: one was described as such already by the government, would

783
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: be floating high over the central part of the Yukon

784
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: Territory ding on February Aviation Week reports and reminds us

785
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: that is the same day in f twenty two shot

786
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: one down of cilinar description in that same in general area.

787
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: And apparently the man that talked to you about this

788
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: is Ron Meadows, the founder of Scientific Balloon Solutions, which

789
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: is a company based in Silicon Valley that makes these

790
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: purpose built pico balloons. I'm talking about for hobbyists, for educators,

791
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: for scientists, exactly like President Biden said, I think even

792
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: in the same order yesterday, Ron, I really appreciate your

793
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: being with us here. Uh did they just shoot down

794
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 1: one of your balloons? Well, it's hard to say without

795
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: seeing a picture, but the description of a cylindrical object

796
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: is the shape of the balloons that we produce, typically

797
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: the party balloons. UM. So there's two types of balloons that, um,

798
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: the industry can fly. When I say industry, I mean

799
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: HAM radio operators, people do in science, UM STEM education schools. UM.

800
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: They can fly just an expensive party balloom that they

801
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: can go by at a store. Typically they don't fly

802
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: as high and they typically are around UM. The one

803
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: that was shot down UM near Michigan. Yeah, that one

804
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: was probably a party ballooon. When they talked about the

805
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: long wires hanging down underneath. Its probably twenty UM. They

806
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: call it whispered WSPR. It's like short wave communications, long

807
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 1: distance communication, and UM it fit that description of that

808
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: group's balloon. So this is news to all of us.

809
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: Run you're an expert. When you heard these reports, your

810
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: your own antenna went up. I'm guessing you had an

811
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: idea what this was. Yes, yes, I had a real

812
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: good idea. UM. The description of the cylindrical object is

813
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: like our SPS thirteen that we build scientific balloon solutions,

814
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: and we primarily build that for the education STEM community. UM.

815
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: They buy these bloons, they put a small tracking system

816
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: on them that is basically the size of a popsicle

817
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: stick that weighs between ten and twenty grams. There's two

818
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: types of communications. One is called a p RS that

819
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: carries about a nineteen inch antenna, and the other one

820
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: is WHISPER and that's about a twenty ft long antenna. UM.

821
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: The radar signature of these are minimal and none. Although

822
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert in that field, the long antenna

823
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: for WHISPER may be picked up easier than UM the

824
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: direct line of site communications type tracking system. But you

825
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 1: have to keep in mind that these are UM ten

826
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: to twenty gram tracking systems and we are f A

827
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: A exempt for launching them in the United States. Do

828
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: they get lost pretty often? Typically they're never recovered. Every

829
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: once in a while one will be really a big

830
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: deal though, right because they I'm reading that they cost

831
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: as little as twelve dollars each. Is that true? Um? Yeah,

832
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: a party balloom does the ones we sell or in

833
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: the hundred and fifty dollar range for education. So that's

834
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: the that's like the sweet package. But the idea here

835
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: is we we spent thousand dollar missile potentially to shoot

836
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: down a twelve dollar balloon. Yeah, and really all they

837
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: had the jet had to do is to fly close

838
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: to that balloon and it would have taken it out

839
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: with You're ever going to know? Can we prove whether

840
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: this is what you think it is? Uh? I haven't

841
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to see pictures. Do you add you

842
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: reached out to the Pentagon? I read? Is that true? UM?

843
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: I tried calling d D, Homeland Security, UM, the Air Force,

844
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: multiple UM, multiple calls local left B. I didn't seem

845
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: to have any interest that the National FBI did take

846
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: my report, but I haven't heard anything back. I was

847
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: trying to let them know that these things have been

848
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: flying the technology that we developed, because I believe we're

849
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: the only company in the world that designs and bills

850
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: and sells small super pressure balloons to the amateur and

851
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: stem education community. UM. It's it's something that we've been

852
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: flying since two thousand fifteen. UM and a lot of

853
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 1: UM universities, middle schools. In fact, we have one middle

854
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: school was the first middle school to fly around the world.

855
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: You're not going to tell me that some students lost

856
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: that their balloon shotdown, are you. It's very possible. Ron.

857
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate your coming in to talk to us. We

858
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: learned a lot of Uran Meadows. His company is Scientific

859
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: Balloon Solutions, the Silicon Valley based company that makes these

860
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: balloons that we may well have shot down, trading in

861
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: f twenty two mission and thousand dollars sidewinder missile for

862
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: a twelve dollar balloon. Genie Schanzano and Rick Davis are

863
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: with us. Is this really how this story is gonna end? Rick? Yeah? Sure,

864
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: I think this was the most entertaining part of the

865
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: aerial objects debate this week that I've heard has answered

866
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: more questions than the President United States could give us.

867
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: So I think giving time to uh to Ron was

868
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: a worthy task here. He knew exactly what it was

869
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: when he heard the descriptions coming out of the Pentagon Genie.

870
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we we think we we have figured this out, right. Yeah,

871
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: Although I have mixed feelings about this, Joe, I'm very

872
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: happy for Ron, and you know that he feels like

873
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,919
Speaker 1: he's identified it because on the one hand, yeah, we've

874
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: were all waiting to see who owns this thing, because

875
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: you shoot something down three times, clearly somebody owns these things.

876
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: But the reality is I thought maybe they were extraterrestrials,

877
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: and as we know, I was waiting for us all

878
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: to be visited on sound on and so it's a

879
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: little sad for me that that's not going to happen.

880
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: It would explain though, Rick. I mean, if, as we

881
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: were talking yesterday, if these things are really lost, what

882
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 1: kind of records are you going to have left from

883
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: something from this twelve dollar balloon that weighs ounces? Yeah, no,

884
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: wonder they can't find anything exactly it vanished. I mean,

885
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: as he said, the thing and it's gonna POPU. Look,

886
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: this falls into the category in Washington, where if it's

887
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: not true, it ought to be. I like that that's

888
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: got to be the name of your of your book.

889
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: That that's fantastic. But Ron, you know, I hope Ron

890
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: Meadows understands that he's beaming at fifty thousand watts here

891
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: across the Potomac from our transmitter in Washington to the Pentagon.

892
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: Are you surprised, Jennie that he did not get a

893
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: call back or are they still listening to that message

894
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 1: laughing about it. No, I think they're listening to sound

895
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: don They're going to get roun right on the phone

896
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: right now and they're going to clarify this. You know,

897
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: I wish Ron had talked to Joe Biden before we

898
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: all know idea. It wasn't a fan of that press

899
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 1: conference yesterday. You know, if he had talked, we could

900
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: have gotten more clarity on this. So, you know, maybe

901
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: they will get back to Ron. I'm waiting to see

902
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: because I'm still a little unclear. Doesn't run is Ron

903
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: saying he owns all three or just one and there's

904
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: two other people out there. That's a great question that

905
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: we only know of the one that was declared missing

906
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: in action. By the Bottled Cap Balloon Brigade, but all

907
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: jokeing a scythe here, Rick. This kind of like the

908
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: guy the Pentagon we want to talk to, right, he

909
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: runs the only company that makes balloons like this. It

910
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: would be pretty interesting of a black Hawk helicopter lands

911
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: in his backyard. And where are these guys? Where's Harry Stamper,

912
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, like, hey, where Ron? We wanted dusr Meadows

913
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: come with us? Yes, exactly. So look, I mean, Jeannie's

914
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: still hoping that one of the other three were as

915
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: her alien balloon. Um and uh, and I hope she's right.

916
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 1: I'd hate her for her disappointed that, you know, she's

917
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: not going to have an alien encounter anytime. So I

918
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: suppose the odds the odds with you still at this point, Genie, Um,

919
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: is the trip next week gonna draw the attention away

920
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: from the balloon gate debate here or whatever we're calling

921
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: it at this point? Like is it done this week?

922
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 1: In the news cyclo? Gene. I'm not if I can

923
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: help it, Joe Matthew, but I think it might. I

924
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: think trying hard to bury this thing on this program

925
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, we like this one a lot, but

926
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, I think Anthony B. Lincoln may meet with

927
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: his counterpart at the Munich conference. That may sort of

928
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: tamp things down a bit, But who knows. Over the weekend.

929
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: You never know. They shoot, something melts down. We could

930
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: be right back at this on Tuesday. That's true. It

931
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 1: was a daily occurrence for a minute, wasn't it. Yes,

932
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: the Fifth Dimension. Come on, let's do it right, Rick Davis,

933
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 1: Genie Chanzano have a long weekend. I hope you do too.

934
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and I'll meet you back here Tuesday

935
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: on the fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington.

936
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the podcast go to Apple, Spotify, or wherever

937
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: you find them. Search for sound on This is Bloomberg.